Bro I've been using and learning c4d for 12 months paid £39.99 per month for redshift and been unhappy with animations such as a car moving down the road over 240 frames that takes 20 hours to render all frames.. today I actually realised that physical render and the materials are just as good when tweaked plus seeing this video will help too thanks.
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whatching this video after a 4 hour rendering time. This will save my life next time!
I ended up with HEAPS of noise on the materials that I used this with. Seems like it happened on GSG's render too but was less noticeable since he didn't have many flat areas.
In the end i find the Lambertian Method is still too slow. You have to use high quality sampling in the physical renderer to get clean results and it took ages to render. Otherwise it´s noisy as hell. I still fake GI with a bunch of area lights. It´s clean, it´s fast and good for animation.
Hi Nick, Thanks for this tutorial. I have mentioned something about my problem but I should also specify that the problem of getting even slower renders I am facing is in R23. Your tutorial is from 2017 and we are in 2023 now. So kindly when you get a chance please check if my findings are correct and that this technique does not yield the desired results in R23 at least.
To someone using Cinema 4d to render architecture modeled in Allplan, your initial 40 second render sounds like a dream outcomd. My workstation PC has been rendering for a whopping 8 hours and is still miles away from being finished ^^'
Thanks guys, you just saved a project that was going to be binned as render times were unacceptable, also managed to bin all the unnecessary stuff so now it’s a goer!!!
Thanks Nick, saw this tip yesterday on NAB Show! My tip: for a better A/B comparison, determine each render to the equivalent A/B button in the tools palette and use the slider bar (horizontally or vertically)... Best regards
Nice One! Recommend to turn of Automatic Light in the Render Options. Otherwise you want see the real effect of Lambertian Diffus, cause there is always a fake light running on top of the HDRI.
same for me, my render time jumped up, plus it somehow messed up my materials when I switched them back to the color chanel, they became way darker when using GI
Of course it's half the render time because you disabled the GI, and you don't see a difference because you're only using a HDRI for lighting, but in a scene with lights it would be much different, or am I missing something ?
When you use the diffuse modes in Reflectance it will use it's own built in GI even when you turn off the "real" GI in the render settings. So basically, if you plan to use GI anyways this method is faster. If you don't want to use GI leave the diffuse modes within the reflectance channel alone and use the standard color channel instead. Compared to non GI these will slow down your render even when you turn of GI in the render settings. It took me a while to wrap my head around this and please correct me if I'm wrong. Pavel Zoch, an official Maxon 3d asset modeller from Czech, calls this the "semi-unbiased rendering" (misleading name). He has got a nice tutorial on this. It's a paid tutorial. You can google this and watch a trailer though.
Seems I need to push the Lambertian channel's Specular strength to 100% in order to get the same render as the Color Channel... Otherwise the color was very dark. Nick didn't seem to have changed it from the default 20%, just wondering why?
You don’t know how much this tutorial is going to help me, I’m rendering a scene and it’s rendering a frame for almost 2hrs and yet I’m rendering 185 frames, I’m going to quit the render and apply these changes and re-render the scene.
Hi, I tried following your tips but I came across an issue. Whenever I paste the texture or the color in de reflectance layer, the material remains black, just like when I desactivated the color channel. Can you help me with that?
But without GI in a more complicated scene utilising the bouncing rays from nearby objects will it be good enough ? I guess the reflectance map is giving a GI effect by taking in the information of objects nearby, but for materials that have very little reflectivity this wont really work ?
Yep, I can only get rid of the grain by cranking the physical render settings and then all the time saving goes out the window. I`ve tried this more than once and it is always the same.
I have the same problem, its super grainy...not just in my render, but also in my little shader viewport image. Please let us know a fix if/when you can. Thanks!
Hey Ron, what I have found from experimenting with this... if you add a lambertian layer in reflectence then you have to set the specular to 100 and the reflection to 0. This is in the lambertian layer only. Not the global settings. This gets rid of the grain. But you have to make your reflection layer, GGX or Beckman, set to add and give it some fresnel so it doesn`t over ride your color layer. Give it a try it works for me.
Something has gone terribly wrong in my case as the renders take 5 times more time. In my case, I had previously used a color channel with default reflectance only. Just trying to figure it out where things ended up in a mess!
Hello Nick. I'm using C4d r24 and I don't have any render engine like octane - corona etc... what I can use in c4d to achieve a better render for my work is it physical render its same as corona and the render engines. appreciate your help. Thank you.
It's still using GI when you use diffuse modes within Reflectance channel even when GI is turned officially off in the render settings. Check my commentary above...
Yes it will, lambertian and oren-nayar BSDF are physically correct in reflectance channel, you can tweak GI setting to get a brighter scene but it won't be physically accurate, those BSDF GI are based on Monte Carlo, just make sure you create all your materials with them, use photometric values in your light sources and make them visible on reflections, if you want to create a good sun light use an infinite light, set shadows to area and photometric set lumens to 28,000 - 32,000.
I doubt someone like him would do something like that lol his time is more than likely dedicated to subtly suggesting the viewers purchase it as opposed to setting up a no budget rig.
I have two questions why does this refection work so much faster and does cinema 4D R18 work on ryzen processors because R17 does but R18 will not even open :C no errors just does not work
Bro I've been using and learning c4d for 12 months paid £39.99 per month for redshift and been unhappy with animations such as a car moving down the road over 240 frames that takes 20 hours to render all frames.. today I actually realised that physical render and the materials are just as good when tweaked plus seeing this video will help too thanks.
whatching this video after a 4 hour rendering time. This will save my life next time!
4 hours is nothing bro
For someone that's always in physical such as myself this is a huge huge huge helper! Can't thank you enough, Nick! Oh and awesome stuff from NAB too
I ended up with HEAPS of noise on the materials that I used this with. Seems like it happened on GSG's render too but was less noticeable since he didn't have many flat areas.
Am having the same problem please if you have any solution
Share with me
In the end i find the Lambertian Method is still too slow. You have to use high quality sampling in the physical renderer to get clean results and it took ages to render. Otherwise it´s noisy as hell. I still fake GI with a bunch of area lights. It´s clean, it´s fast and good for animation.
RENDER 300% FASTER WITH THIS ONE WEIRD TRICK. DOCTORS HIDE THIS!
A Very Helpful Tutorial For Everyone, Thank You!! 😃😄😃😄😍🥰😍🥰🤗🤗
I like the short ones! Sometimes the long ones are daunting. I like them too, but a mix of single or short tips is great.
Thanks! Look for more short ones coming soon.
No one would noticed this, but you did. I will try it later see if it is true. What a great tut!
Dude... This is amazing... I'm done with the diffuse layer... and lol use g.i waaaaayyyyy less now... Thank you so much Nick and GSG
Hey! Thanks for the awesome tutorial.
Can you please tell me how to cache/calculate my hair and know their poly count?
Simply amazing, thank you @Grayscalegorilla, thank you Nick
Thanks for watching!
Hi Nick, Thanks for this tutorial. I have mentioned something about my problem but I should also specify that the problem of getting even slower renders I am facing is in R23. Your tutorial is from 2017 and we are in 2023 now. So kindly when you get a chance please check if my findings are correct and that this technique does not yield the desired results in R23 at least.
To someone using Cinema 4d to render architecture modeled in Allplan, your initial 40 second render sounds like a dream outcomd. My workstation PC has been rendering for a whopping 8 hours and is still miles away from being finished ^^'
Probably the most helpful tip ive ever learned in cinema 4d. Thanks
I remember this video :) Thank the heavens for Redshift and octane!
Totally Agree!
This is great, so helpful. Thank You Nick
This might have been my personal favorite advice, as I'm always rendering 3 second clips for 3 days :D
Glad I could help!
Mate this is really awesome, thanks for this info !!!!!
sweet great tip, but then why would we ever use the color channel at all?
Oh men you are amazing! Wow I'm really exited with this technics. Thankyou
Hi Nick, excelent tutorial, but you promise teach us how configure our team render. Please Give me Light!
This only works in a specific setup. Also doesn't work with caustics. In the end, I ended up having more rendertime with this technique.
without this technique for me it tack 27 scd but with it, it takes 34 scd but finally I think I found a better way now it tack 14 scd
thank you so much my c4d hipster friend
Any time!
Thanks guys, you just saved a project that was going to be binned as render times were unacceptable, also managed to bin all the unnecessary stuff so now it’s a goer!!!
Wow - it seems like the Reflectance Channel is taking over the Material Editor completely... Thanks for this tip!
Thanks for watching!
Great work Nick, Physical render settings, Blurriness Subdivision (Max) 4 or more does help the graininess...Cheers
Thanks a lot, you deserve a hot coffee from me. You have saved lots of my life.
Thanks Nick, saw this tip yesterday on NAB Show! My tip: for a better A/B comparison, determine each render to the equivalent A/B button in the tools palette and use the slider bar (horizontally or vertically)... Best regards
Thanks! That would have been a better way to AB for sure.
This did neither work nor help me with future renderings.
Ugh my mind just got BLOWN - thanks for this Nick!
Thanks!
That's crazy awesome! :) Thank for sharing!
As I understood, this technique substitutes the global illumination too. So we can turn the global illumination off, right?
Nice One! Recommend to turn of Automatic Light in the Render Options. Otherwise you want see the real effect of Lambertian Diffus, cause there is always a fake light running on top of the HDRI.
That's amazing! I will be using this all the time now!
WoooW! the final confirmation, you're the best channel in Yt to see tips! Awesome!
fantastic tip! thank you soo much for sharing
Thanks Nick!! Any tip to achieve the same result with liquids textures (the transparency takes a long time to render)! Thanks dude!
Thanks! This was a very helpful tutorial
Great tip, thanks Nick!
It works really well. thanks!
Simply awesome! Super tip!
thank you for sharing this! my render time was @ 1 hour and 30 mins. Now it's 14 mins per frame!
absolutely great technic, thanks for share,very useful, big time saver.
Cant wait to try this today
This tutorial helps me a lot, thxxxxx.
A super workflow tip in a perfect tutorial format, as always!
Another great tutorial. Thank you!
Sir....ur guideline is really helpful for me......😃
damn awesome !!! will try it now !!!
that wins my fake GI and blury mats by far damn great tutorial guys
@ApolloDzn stop stalking me yo lol
This is strange because when I do add the color under reflectance the render time triples.
Doing this method in 2022 increased my render times 3.
Mate Great stuff!!!! Keep up the good work.
omg... I saved tons of my time by this 6 minutes...
Actually made my render slower, so I guess this is very scene sensitive.
same for me, my render time jumped up, plus it somehow messed up my materials when I switched them back to the color chanel, they became way darker when using GI
same.
Of course it's half the render time because you disabled the GI, and you don't see a difference because you're only using a HDRI for lighting, but in a scene with lights it would be much different, or am I missing something ?
But you're achieving the GI look without using GI, that's the catch!
Yea, that's what the common sense part of the brain wants to think...but it's a render hack...and this is the matrix so deal with it.
Steal Tomorrow haha xD
It's also faster because he uses Team Render...
When you use the diffuse modes in Reflectance it will use it's own built in GI even when you turn off the "real" GI in the render settings. So basically, if you plan to use GI anyways this method is faster. If you don't want to use GI leave the diffuse modes within the reflectance channel alone and use the standard color channel instead. Compared to non GI these will slow down your render even when you turn of GI in the render settings. It took me a while to wrap my head around this and please correct me if I'm wrong. Pavel Zoch, an official Maxon 3d asset modeller from Czech, calls this the "semi-unbiased rendering" (misleading name). He has got a nice tutorial on this. It's a paid tutorial. You can google this and watch a trailer though.
Seems I need to push the Lambertian channel's Specular strength to 100% in order to get the same render as the Color Channel... Otherwise the color was very dark. Nick didn't seem to have changed it from the default 20%, just wondering why?
Hi Nick... I need a tutorial about how to rebuild a Building... and second how to make a dirty glass.
Thanks Budy.
Good tip Nick but is there a way to apply this for footage being tracked in Cinema?
Incredible, awesome, amazing Tricks !
Thanks a looot
You don’t know how much this tutorial is going to help me, I’m rendering a scene and it’s rendering a frame for almost 2hrs and yet I’m rendering 185 frames, I’m going to quit the render and apply these changes and re-render the scene.
Bro you just quantum leaped my workflow!
Hi, I tried following your tips but I came across an issue. Whenever I paste the texture or the color in de reflectance layer, the material remains black, just like when I desactivated the color channel. Can you help me with that?
amazing. Thanks Chris, you're the best!
But without GI in a more complicated scene utilising the bouncing rays from nearby objects will it be good enough ? I guess the reflectance map is giving a GI effect by taking in the information of objects nearby, but for materials that have very little reflectivity this wont really work ?
wow amazing technique bro tank's a lot
Thanks!
The problem I have is using the lambertian channel in reflectance always gives me a grainy texture.
I have this problem too
Yep, I can only get rid of the grain by cranking the physical render settings and then all the time saving goes out the window. I`ve tried this more than once and it is always the same.
I have the same problem, its super grainy...not just in my render, but also in my little shader viewport image. Please let us know a fix if/when you can. Thanks!
Hey Ron, what I have found from experimenting with this... if you add a lambertian layer in reflectence then you have to set the specular to 100 and the reflection to 0. This is in the lambertian layer only. Not the global settings. This gets rid of the grain. But you have to make your reflection layer, GGX or Beckman, set to add and give it some fresnel so it doesn`t over ride your color layer. Give it a try it works for me.
Anthony Leon Studio yeah that gets rid of the grain, but now the lightning and shadows look shit WITH or WITHOUT GI
thanks nick, very usefull tutorial.,
Wow,this is an awesome technic!
Something has gone terribly wrong in my case as the renders take 5 times more time. In my case, I had previously used a color channel with default reflectance only. Just trying to figure it out where things ended up in a mess!
This is awesome !!! thx for this way bro !!
Thanks!!!
Great advice man thx!😎
is 100% CPU usage during rendering is Normal?? 2-3 %GPU consumption just recorder
I Tried This Technique. I Felt like It Was Taking Screenshots From View Port. It Doesn't Suitable For Beautiful Scenes.
How did you make that Gorillia is there any tutorial about it?
Great vid, thanks
Is it still the case in R21 and S22? Because if it is, then C4D will need a serious update
In my case this trick took me almost double the time to render vs using the color channel unfortunately
This feels like a c4d bug, but thanks for this one, I will be using it for sure!!
Hello Nick.
I'm using C4d r24 and I don't have any render engine like octane - corona etc... what I can use in c4d to achieve a better render for my work
is it physical render its same as corona and the render engines. appreciate your help.
Thank you.
Thanks for the tutorial Nick! A newbie question: Do you have any turorial to achieve that clean solid color look on the background like in this case?
This was a simple composite of a foreground image (the gorilla) and a background color (red) done in photoshop. Thanks for the comment!
Greyscalegorilla thanks! You're the man
Great tut, love saving time on GI - although it did give me a little more noise using the Lambertain channel in reflectance - possible to reduce this?
Yes. Try turning up your samples more in Physical Render.
Really a good...idea...I will use it thanks.....a lot
Thank you so much, please make more tutorials like tNice tutorials. You explain better than any other guide I've seen on youtube, very clear and
Great tip!
Very Helpful
thanks for sharing!
But do you really think that this is the time to say arrivederci to GI?
No, in no way this will replace GI, GI does a lot more than just "lighting up a scene with an HDRI"
It's still using GI when you use diffuse modes within Reflectance channel even when GI is turned officially off in the render settings. Check my commentary above...
Yes it will, lambertian and oren-nayar BSDF are physically correct in reflectance channel, you can tweak GI setting to get a brighter scene but it won't be physically accurate, those BSDF GI are based on Monte Carlo, just make sure you create all your materials with them, use photometric values in your light sources and make them visible on reflections, if you want to create a good sun light use an infinite light, set shadows to area and photometric set lumens to 28,000 - 32,000.
thank you my bro.
Thanks for sharing, once again:D
Very cool! but this might be something that has been "fixed" in R26. I'm getting zero improvements.
Hi Nick - Love this!!! Anyway you could include this in Top Coat?
Boooooom. Now that's a tippy top tip.
Thanks, Craig!
what is your system configration. i wanna purchase a macbook
the color layer I created inside Reflectance don't show up because the specular layer on top...
Wooooo! best video on Cinema4D I subscribed . Keep making videos.
Man, teach us how do something like HDRI Studio Rig... no money =////
I doubt someone like him would do something like that lol his time is more than likely dedicated to subtly suggesting the viewers purchase it as opposed to setting up a no budget rig.
I didnt know Jeremy Piven did c4d tutorials!
I have two questions why does this refection work so much faster and does cinema 4D R18 work on ryzen processors because R17 does but R18 will not even open :C no errors just does not work
wow thaks so much dude