Destiny Reacts - Vaush & Demonmama Talk About Gender and Pronouns
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Stream Date: 9/20/2021
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October is over so I'm no longer scary gender. Now I'm thankful gender.
Demonmama at 10 minutes in: This isn't a real person he is arguing about, no one freaks out about neo pronouns
Demonmama at 20 minutes in: It would be transphobic to not refer to someone as their neo pronoun
10:00 Make yourself a (more accurate) timestamp by just typing in the numbers
It indeed would be transphobic.
Imo could be worse but yeah, hella disrespectful
i love that demon mama says " fortnight is liked by girls and boys" and then realises that they said girls and boys and says " and everyone else" lmao
I'm pretty sure a whole fuck ton of people don't like fortnight
Wow it's almost like it's all a grift
@@nidavelliir Or 'boys and girls' is hardwired into traditional language. Not everything is a grift.
@@Trowa71 idk that sounds like a thing she would scream about in a debate as if it was an own if someone else made that slip
@@goose5761 I'd say the same thing to her then.
By her own argumentation, she really cannot criticize people for calling themselves super straight...
Or attack helicopter, yeah
She wouldn't have a problem with helicopter, but she would have a problem with super straight because it's directly designed to discriminate.
She wouldn't be okay with someone identifying as "n***** hater" for the same reason.
All of these arguments are so pathetically pedantic and easy to get around.
I get that it's fun, but they're literally attack helicopter level arguments, all of them.
@@Axxilles That doesn't change anything though, following the logic she has she has to accept it even if she doens't like it .
Also there are a lot of other problems with this individuals mentality .
@Tache Robert-Alexandru. I'm honestly disturbed at your inability to follow this very simple logic train. Of course it changes it! I'm not sure if you realize this, but you can have more than one rule for why things should be a certain way.
Premise one: People should be allowed to choose their own gender pronouns and identity.
Premise two: Your identity should not be designed specifically to insult or malign others.
If you can't follow that, you're effectively braindead. It's like if someone said "People should be allowed to drive cars" and your response was "wElL tHeN yOu ShOuLd HaVe No PrObLeM wItH pEoPle RuNnInG oVeR cHiLdReN!!1"
Are you legitimately incapable of following this? I figured people this dumb would be on Demon Mama's side of the argument, LOL.
It's Ya Boi Skinny Penor for the win.
Demonmama has to be, without a doubt, the cringiest person I've ever had the displeasure of watching rant about something.
Agreed. And, I could see how I could have been a version of dm if I’d had hundreds of people validating my stupid arguments when I was in my early 20s.
I'm compelled to supply a contrary example, but I can't actually think of one.
@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor the only contender I can think of is tonka ranting about kicking your ass
@@broobit7540 lmao okay yeah that's what I'm talking about!
It’s actually insane the kind of echo chamber she’s created for herself. Her chat and fans give her validation on every word she says even if it’s entirely contradictory.
This is my life... watching a guy do commentary on a girl doing commentary on a guy doing commentary.
oh god and I'm commenting on the comment of a guy who's watching a guy do commentary on a girl doing commentary on a guy doing commentary
@@OlPalJoe damn im commenting on the commenter who’s commenting on watching the guy do commentary on a girl doing commentary on a guy doing commentary
@@OlPalJoeI’m commenting on the comment of a guy whose commenting on the comment of a guy who’s watching a guy comment on the commentary of a girl who’s commenting on the commentary of a guy in a world where guy and girl are meaningless and you can change between guy and girl and neither and both an unlimited number of times in your life.
three guys*
@@hg3727 Destiny is a chair's name
1:21:33
"Somebody who is deergender is not claiming that they are a deer. They are saying their gender expression is inspired by deer. Somebody who is attackhelicoptergender is not claiming that they are an attack helicopter. They are saying their gender identity is inspired by attack helicopters. Maybe they walk around wearing armour pads and they have tatoos on their face that have, like, military serial numbers or something. And they're totally into that, okay?"
"Somebody who is a trans man is not claiming that they are a man. They are saying their gender expression is inspired by men. Somebody who is a trans woman is not claiming that they are a woman. They are saying their gender identity is inspired by women. Maybe they walk around wearing high heels and dresses and they wear make-up on their faces that have, like, exaggerated fake eyelashes or something. And they're totally into that, okay?"
😬😬😬
Demon Mama has completely fictional conversations with strawmen she's created then acts like she owned them. Its the most bizarre thing I have ever seen.
She latched onto a small crowd of weirdos and has to appeal to them to keep from getting a job. Lmao
Gender is static and binary. But it’s not the totality of your identity. You can be a man and wear a dress but that doesn’t mean you’re a woman.
There’s nothing intrinsic about being a woman that would necessitate wearing a dress.
No different than the fact that there’s nothing intrinsic about being black and liking basketball.
Stereotypes don’t make a gender what it is.
You need to distinguish the experience of gender to the norms of society. Both are real, and can interact with each other.
You’re retarded
I guess you can only be hyper masculine or ultra feminine then.
A horse has a back and 4 legs.
Let’s be real here.
Horses are chairs.
Horse pilled
I regularly sit on horses
Horses were the original chairs. Or maybe, chairs are just solid horses.
@@jansettler4828 or maybe it was the friends we made along the way
@@jansettler4828 Horses are mobile chairs
Gender is fashion... I guess.
This was a shocking admission to witness.
Hobby, actually. Your hobbies have become your gender.
Yeah, or else we would just use sex since it dosen't actually carry any cultural decrees to identify too. Just because your a female dosen't mean you fall within the 60% of the personality traits associated with the majority of females or you have to wear a dress.
Always has been
@@nealangelo5759 mine?
"Some people identify relatively well with the binary." "Some people" here being 95+% of humanity.
Isn't it even higher than that? Even most LGBT folk fit pretty neatly into the gender binary
Its like 0.03% I think i remember reading identify as trans. Which is a lot of people, but saying the gender binary doesn't work well is just objectively false
@@blitz8425 That has nothing to do with any binary. Most trans people either identify as men or women.
@@AnimeFan9833 that's actually a good point. I haven't seen any data on what the breakdown of identity is within that 0.03%, but still I think this strengthens what I am saying in that the Gender binary seems to work pretty well if even a majority of people within that 0.03% still identify within that binary.
What I meant to say is that my gender is God-Emperor and my pronoun is "Your Majesty"
Time stamps brother, if you wanna be a good leech ya neeeeeed time stamps in the description
The Destiny reposters are the fucking WORST at adding timestamps
@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor it's almost like its not their fucking job, just chill and appreciate the content in your feeeeeeeeed
@@oxxy6678 no, it IS their job. Their entire "content" is reuploading other people's work. The absolute least they could contribute is some fucking timestamps
@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor lol chill u seem stressed or something. I meant hes not employed by this, the videos barely get views, so he doesnt really have incentive or probably TIME to provide time stamps. It just seems like hes a fan who enjoys putting out some of the good content from the streams, which barely see the light of day because destiny doesn't upload shit. Like it's just funny that you think this dude would legitimately take HOURS out of his day to clip a channel he 99% doesnt make any money from. Idk stay mad though, hope you doing ok? Lol
@@oxxy6678 I don't care if Destiny posted this himself, it's 2021 and I expect proper timestamps.
What I hate about this entire gender theory bs from Demonmama is that she says "People forget other peoples genders all the time, its not a big deal" while completely ignoring that that is exactly the reason as to why its not a big deal in the first place to have all these different genders. If you sit here calling yourself Gamergender and no one remembers it because its not important, then it might as well not exist. These are descriptors at best that people will NEVER think about cause you just arent that important to random strangers or aquaintances
Agreed: the whole point of pronouns is that other people will know what you mean when you say them.
Yeah, the importance in pronouns like man or woman is that they are important to a lot of people, and bring a lot of connotation that many people know about. Gamergender brings no connotation or information.
Destiny being bad faith. It’s obvious that a chair is anything that identifies as a chair. Deal with it.
Leftists arguing over whose delusions are real is great entertainment
"But look, i you use that definition of gender, you might be able to identifiy as something you are not, like an attack helicopter, while my definition only allow men to become women see it's logical and grounded in reality"
@@debordeleur2005 homie there’s a difference between identifying as another gender and identifying as a vechicle. There’s actual scientific grounding behind the latter. Don’t do this
She can't say the slippery slope is false when the attack helicopter meme has become reality
I am still convinced the gender theory nonsense originated in a 4chan Tumblr op
There's so much destiny content I need to watch god damn
The lore has its own lore
@@justthedon1792 it runs deep
Same
if you're gonna rip content at least put the date streamed
Chill
@@oxxy6678 nah, put the fucking timestamps
It amuses me the way she constantly states that she is being good faith.
Yeah it’s almost as if she isnt lol
She says trying which means she hasn’t achieved that end yet which means she’s admitting to being bad faith to some degree
Reminds me of the people who feel the need to write that they are funny and nice in their bio's on dating apps lmao
>gender is fashion
>you can misgender people you dislike (or you can know who is Faking it/doing it bad faith)
assertions that, if said by someone who isn't trans, would get called them transphobic
DM and people like her genuinely disgust me
Well good to hear what I've always thought, that this whole gender notion is nothing but a glorified fashion statement for narcissists
@@marcogianesello6083not what this person said
@@marcogianesello6083we fkin get it dude you watch Kermit the crybaby Peterson
You sound bad faith.
"I'm not able to dress as a bottom because I'm a top." Literally who is stoping you?
The whole nickname argument goes against Demonmama. When you give yourself a nickname it is considered cringe and insanely pathetic. So giving yourself neo -pronouns and niche gender is as cringe as giving yourself a nickname.
Just come up with a gender neutral pronoun for a person and use that. I feel like most of this stems from English having he/him and she/her.
they/them already is the gender neutral singular pronoun. it's not very taught, but it has application (for example, when someone is referring to the person driving in front of them who they can't see).
likewise, you can just say "their" instead of "his or hers" in many situations.
@@deezy_sf Yeah, I understand completely. I was thinking more of a new wording that doesn't have a chance to be mistaken with the plural. Especially because the kind of crowd that has a problem with this tends to want to invent new stuff.
To give an example from my own language, Finnish, would be the word "hän" (pronounced like the three first letters of the word "hand") that is equivalent to the English "he/she", but is completely gender neutral. We have a word for "they" as well (it's "he" (pronounced like the first two letters of the name "Hemingway")) and it is used in that similar formal kind of way to refer to someone. The old way, if you will. I just think that, for example, the Finnish language doesn't have these, at least similar, problems as people have with the English language that is gendered.
@@Ballet40k It can't really be mistaken. Due to how pronouns work, it never makes sense to use them unless it's clear from the surrounding context who is referred to.
@@AnimeFan9833 I guess it's more difficult to pick up on the context for someone who doesn't speak English as their first language. Regardless, my view stays the same.
@@Ballet40k I don't speak it as my first language either, it's just a grammatical thing. You also never use "he" or "she" unless the person you're talking to knows who he or she is.
I completely agree with you though, life would be much easier if you just had one pronoun for everyone. I'm german and we have "er/he" and "sie/she", the only neutral term is "es/it" which you can't use for people. So, if someone identifies as nonbinary or you just don't know a person's gender there's actually no way to refer to them at all.
Gamer is a gender... well, I guess conservatives were right all along and the Left is crazy ;/
Lol yeah conservatives are a good judge of crazy for sure bud
;/sadge
@@allard110 try explaining this to the average progressive in 2006, they would say yea okay bush voter, the left would say that even men can have babies and periods.
“I identify my car as a Lamborghini”
Lmao
Demonmama is the best /pol psyop ever.
?
This woman has to be the most insufferable person I've ever laid witness too.
After this I've decided my interaction with these people is so limited it seems like a major waste of time that on the extremely rare occasion I have to actually interact with someone who does identity as what they are presenting as they are just getting lumped into other
woman
Theres an easy answer for all of Destiny's questions about DemonMama. They're Entally Mill, end of.
Man, I used to think Trash was the dumbest person on the internet but now, it is without a doubt SemenTrauma and they're not just the dumbest person on the internet but in all of humanity.
Haha! Vaush defines a chair [blah..a BACK, and four legs] then he says “is a saddle a chair?” NO, IT DOES NOT HAVE A BACK REST!
wellp fellas, i could only make it to the 53 min mark demon mama is lethal levels of cringe.
If gender is an estetic then DM shouldn't and couldn't get offended by misgendering , also transphobia becomes obsolete .
I wonder if demonmama is pro transracialism or not
Isn't she basically saying your hobby or what you think you are is your gender? Like gamer, name or fan of smth as examples she gives? So you can be a wolf, chair, anime girl and whatever you feel like whenever you feel like it? Where are the boundaries? Can we then exclude someone from society when they identify as, for example, animals? Why do we push this "new" thing on the definiton of gender then? Let's create a new word for it.
It used to be called a personality before people without one seized twitter
Does there really have to be some potential catastrophic result involved for us to debate the logic behind an idea?
Demonmama is the Tucker Carlson of the left.
It’s interesting to see destiny’a hate change from person to person. He hates Vaush in a pragmatic sense, but god damn he fucking hates demonmama. I think it’s funny as fuck😂. Although one could say he hates them based on incorrectness of their positions. Vaush is sometimes incorrect so he gets hate, demonmamma is very very incorrect and gets more hate
nah vaush is almost always incorrect lol he’s just careful with his words, demon mama def believes what she says tho which is probably why destiny gets more mad at her
I feel like the biggest issue for some of these things is that they all pertain to sex. It seems like a lot of gender identity is just about signaling that to other people. It jus seems really odd to me.
People like this make it so easy for real transphobes
What are "real transphobes"? People that refuse all delusions, while you aren't because there are some delusions that you accept (but don't accept the others but it's okay this time?)
@@debordeleur2005 gender identity has actual scientific basis behind it, calling it a delusion is dumb considering the main way of treating dysphoria is transistioning
Okay, so, I’m a non-binary person. (Born male, don’t know if that matters) but the idea of neo pronouns sound so stupid to me. I love not caring about what I dress like, who I hang out with, what I like, I like just being me. Since coming to the realization that I am nb (and I do feel super strongly about this) I haven’t really changed outwardly all that much. I’ve grown my hair out, and maybe acted a little different, but for the most part it’s all the same. So to hear someone like DemonMama say that gender is ONLY about expression makes me want to vomit. I’m not cis, no where near, but you couldn’t tell, does that mean I don’t count as nb????
And this is just me feeling attacked, don’t get me started on the actual arguments against her dumbass claims
You do realize you don't have to be non-binary to wear what you want and hang with who want? If your more feminine, does that mean your a closeted women? Maybe but it could also mean your a feminine man with personality traits that are in the 40% overlap of the average personality distribution of the sexes. Let's make this clear, 40% of each sex overlap with each other.
she pretty much said its transphobic to not use neo pronouns because you're 'denying' someone agency. Thats not how it works. If your identity is true to you, it doesn't need to be validated by anyone. Gay people are still gay even if homophobes think its a choice and not an innate sexuality. Them denying that isn't inherently denying gay people agency, denying gay people their rights and protections is. Gay people aren't worried about how everyone thinks, they just want to be treated equally. Forcing everyone to 'be ok' with homosexuality is never going to work, just like forcing everyone to validate your identity wont. Not everyone believes in gender identity rhetoric/ideology and they dont have to! Trans people deserve the right to housing, job opportunities, healthcare and safety just like everyone else, what they're not entitled to is to force everyone around them into talking/behaving the 'right' way in their eyes. Its just culty.
1:14:20 Dono has absolutely no understanding as to how BPD is characterized and should not even pretend to do so
imagine the fucked up shit that frog plushie has seen
It is absolutely insane to me how not using someone's neopronouns is considered "disrespecting their agency" to DM. Are the people who "must" address someone by their neopronouns not allowed agency of their own?
I feel really bad for the person with DM, because DM always comes off as a super emotionally and mentally abusive person and I hate the idea that someone is exposed to that constantly.
there was 5m of Vaush in this. 40 minutes of someone unbearable
To steelman DemonMama though I disagree with a lot of her larger points, I think Destiny kept missing the answer to two questions he kept asking which, in DemonMama's framework, answer each other: 1) What is the underlying fact of the matter of gender in DemonMama's understanding of gender, does her framework actually devalue trans identity and other meaningful categories? and 2) How do we get around DemonMama's perpetual invocation of agency which seems to function as a shield from criticism?
I don't know whether she could be nailed down on there being a measurable fact of the matter for trans or gay or racial identity other than self-id--I'm willing to grant her the charitability to assume yes because I actually don't think it conflicts with the framework she's trying to get at. But I do think the point she's getting at is that to a gender abolitionist, perhaps a neurological fact of the matter can be found pointing at some specifics of gender expression, but actual gender categories are abolishable on the premise that the current social construction in the English-speaking world of "men", "women", and maybe some fuzzy third thing and maybe more, can be REPLACED BY AGENCY. Not by a selection of better, more accurate or unifying categories. But by the concept of self-expression itself, a concept in which the uniqueness of individuals is key and prized.
I don't think this model is inherently wrong, I just think it's a model that has to be bought into by a vast number of people in order to function, which is where its rightness or wrongness will be tested. Like any grand arcane theory of social construction, it can't really be disproven to be functional at large scale, it can only be proven by becoming ubiquitous, like the successes of social constructs of money and language, and like the probably-never-provable social constructs of things like Posadism or a religion worshipping the concept of a teacup orbiting the Sun between Jupiter and Saturn. Would a society built on a model of gender abolitionism including the actual absence of distinct popular binaristic gender categories at the center of its gender concept see massive mental health problems in otherwise cisgender people, or would they be chill about their self-expression being so hyperspecific as to be nonrelational? Would currently-binaristic trans people be happy with it? Would nonbinary people? Would current neopronoun users invent unified categories again just to be contrary? It's not knowable until it's tried on at least a small scale culturally, which admittedly it has not been tried.
If gender abolitionism is to be attempted on a small scale I prefer Vaush's model of it where it seems like...the same as a model of men, women, other, just people be less assumptive about what gender means and treat it as an almost gamified social construct rather than inherently biological. I think that's more likely to be at least a worthy experiment.
The implications for what Demon is describing is horrific for society. Cause according to her logic there’s literally no way to have her ideal world not hold the binary believers emotionally hostage and dismantle a system that keeps the sex of women safe. Plus many other things like the destruction of language. So profoundly incorrect. And yes Demon wants it tk just become an aesthetic but doesn’t say the quiet part out loud that for it to be just a fun quirky thing, it must be enforced by society. And it’s so arbitrary and individual based, it can’t be legislated to enforce. The goal shouldn’t be to reduce labels but furthrr delineate.
Demonmamma is Destiny’s granddaughter.
🤣🤣🤣
man I still like destiny, but back then when he was debating the most stupid thing ever was gold
is this from a recent stream or long ago?
A few weeks back. I believe Destiny was in Sweden.
We need to diversify pan sexual. I am pot and pan sexual.
I'm sexually attracted to a wide range of kitchenware
omg ur so valid queen!
Presidentsunday is so infuriatingly annoying it was hard to rewatch this debate
Do you ever think that Destiny started off a chain reaction? Like DM is gonna be Vaush's Destiny? And then she will go on to spawn something even more extreme? Do you think there's an LGBTQ Hitler at the end of this? Will the blood be on Steven's hands?
Demon Mama: “where is the harm?“ How about the harm in self-deluding yourselves?
bro i just wanna live my life as the other gender in peace wtf is a neo pronoun
The howling noises coming from Stevens game creeps me out.
"A definition can be self referential." No. Just no.🤦
1:05:40 - I usually have a hard time listening to DM. But while mostly cringe and proving nothing, this was actually funny.
I can see why people who agree with her, would find her to be charismatic.
what if a 7yo identified as a 28yo, and a 28yo identified as a 7yo, and they, you know, did the deed - who would most people put the blame on in that case?
Please don't let him use f word with the Lord's name
I will accept he/she/they and that’s it
OMNIGENDER GODSTINY
Plato's Formstiny
Vaush didn't say ALL definition were self-referential.
Is this channel affiliated with destiny in any way?
DM is trivializing actual transphobia by including this nonsense in it
Literally
So many dumb takes in so little time it's kinda impressive
The only thing DM is good at, is being horrible
This is the best title for a video ever. I’m in
Frankly, if its all fashion to you than I have no obligation to affirm your "gender identity"... so where does this get us?
You know what, I think I've got the solve for this bullshit. "Genders" have social expectations attached to them. Man and woman have historical and societal ties. If you dont fall into those societal expectations you're NONBINARY, which means you fall OUTSIDE of the 2 societally expected genders. Without the social aspects its not a gender, its closer to a nickname. Am I missing a hole here or is that basically what we're gonna have to fall back to?
when was this stream?
im missing the dankest dungeon days i dont know what goes on when hes on stellaris
I really hate Destiny's taste in games. They're all so repetitive and boring.
I’m Biden gender pronouns Jack/Mack
There is no fourth gender
Wait no I’m transphobia gender now
... Is anybody going to acknowledge Catwoman in the background is creepy?
the “gamer” example is so funny because you can’t just self identify as a gamer you have to play games.
Holy fuck this shit is so first world problem… 1+ hour about imaginary characters
Man it’s brutal watching destiny play Darkest Dungeon... no shield sway no guard no target whistle... Jesus man lol
Is there literally anything that you self identify as? I can't really think of anything.
This is some of the most unhinged shit I've heard in awhile.
Can anyone link the original vod from DM?
demon mama is stupid because everyone calls him vowsh and he doesn’t mind it
I can't remember more pronouns. Sounds ablest, bruh.
I have severe memory problems due to being disabled as well. I'll always try my absolute best to remember new pronouns or neopronouns but everyone should be more chill or understanding if they can be, if someone accidentally (with no malicious intent) calls them by the wrong pronouns
@@theoldhermit2601 I'm pretty open minded, but my kindness will not be a weapon against used me. Have a good week!
@@expfrostbite hey sorry I have a hard time figuring tone out, was this an aggressive or genuine comment? Because I was agreeing with you and said i relate to your experience
@@theoldhermit2601 I agree we should be kind and think of others, but I'm not gonna let some one walk over me for an ego trip. :P I'm schizophrenic.
I get spectrum vibes from Deamonmoron.
Take away my humanity and agency, this language is so loaded man
15 minutes in I saw Demon Mamas cat.
Anyone know one stargender person?
Hey guy's is this run by August or a fan account?
23:23 the fuck? No it's not
what game is he playing?
Just let them get married
I liked at yas queen
What if I wanted to be called God
Also, she said she dropped out of college 3 times for financial reasons? Doesn’t it cost money to apply and reapply? Lol
Application fees are a drop of a bucket, besides dropping out of community college is still dropping out of college (idk if she went to community college or not, my point is you can be a college dropout for like $600)
I am oniichan gender.
हिंदी समझने वाला भी देखता है कोई इसको?
That's not a saying in the UK at all.
Demon mama=made up anecdotes
25:41 uhmmm grifting?
Is this new cotent ?
Idc if the dm coverage gives her clout shit's a content mine, always will be