As a trans male, i would like to point out that most sane members of the community do agree that placing a trans term in a child is extremely hurtful. Raise a child as their born gender, allow them open borders within it but don't overly talk or push the discussion with a child.
Excellent show! It was refreshing to see an interviewer give Murray some seriously intelligent and good-faith pushback on his views. In most interviews I've seen with him, he's either being lambasted by accusations of (insert)phobia, or is simply talking to someone who already knows they agree with him on practically every issue (ie, Rubin Report).
This is why I love Alex. He always makes the effort to represent the opposite view as charitable as possible. That’s the intellectual honest way, and that’s what’s make the discussion worthwhile.
I agree, but it frustrates me when he would reframe an argument as it is more likely be advanced by the people who make it, and Douglas would just dodge it and maneuver back to his framing. Like, when Alex pointed out that “our ancestors had hard lives too” doesn’t defeat the argument for reparations, because the argument is you are benefiting from that legacy NOW, and they are still suffering from that legacy NOW… I would’ve been very interested to hear Douglas response to that, but instead he took it back to “should we transfer money to Jewish people too?”
Yes he does, but I think he is too committed to it, especially when the opposite view had evidence bearing upon it. Being open-minded admirable but be careful that your brain doesn’t fall out.
@fynes leigh It [Well] serves to directly quote Douglas Murray's statement in its totality. Something you may find doesn't happen to often on Twitter. Now Twitter, if you aren't aware, is a "social media utility" quite comparable to a sound bite in form in that it requires all posts or replies to be 280 characters or less. It's a cesspool of vermin all seething in this orgy of outrage and virtue signaling. Lovely place really. If you haven't acquainted yourself with its majesty, I advise you to create an account immediately. You'll come to love yourself and fellow man more fully. This I guarantee to you. Would a guy with the number of the beast as a profile picture ever lie to a stranger on UA-cam? I dont think so.
4 роки тому+1
Ricky Gervais said that Twitter is like reading every coment on every toilet wall in Britain.
Wow. This interviewer is brilliant. I’ve never heard someone debate with Douglas quite this way, I’m a big fan of Doug Murray. I’m a big fan of you both now! Good work.
Totally agree. He presses Murray well. For instance 54:40 Appealing to scientific consensus when convenient, after dismissing the most tested science in the history of mankind?
I agree. However I think Douglas pushes back rather effectively. Jordan Peterson has laid this groundwork much more effectively however; right up from the binary nature of sex up through the accumulation of sex specific psychological characteristics to the sex dependent occupational preferences exhibited in the most egalitarian societies, which is the best that current research has to offer
No gotcha questions, no so-what-your-saying, no rage outburst, no 60 min interview conveniently frankensteined into a twitter compliant 20secs sound bite. Much better that way.
This is my first time watching this channel. mainly because of Douglas Murray. I absolutely appreciate the way this discussion unravelled. I wouldn't describe this as an actual debate, definitely not an interview, But a very critical discussion.
@Laurence D I completely disagree. Most (not all) handsome men are even more hot with a beard. And some guys who aren't all that attractive suddenly morph into a hottie because of a beard. I, for one, am so sick of the clean-cut look, so glad that has taken the back seat for a while. I hope the beard trend lasts a good long time. And when I say beard, I mean a nice, well-kept beard, not some ghastly, untamed, frightening rats nest.
@@chrisv384 He is equable and civil during this entire discussion. It seems far more clear that Murray is indoctrinated into believing his own hype, not adequately countering the criticisms levied or unsubstantiated claims.
@@chrisv384 if someone has applied critical thinking and studies various perspectives and still come to a different perspective from you it doesn’t actually mean they are indoctrinated. It is possible they just disagree with you.
Alex is anything but indoctrinated. He questions himself and everyone as a rule, so... yeah, you just disagree with him. Alex is much more brilliant than that boomer. Hes so set in his ways. Its sad
I love how Cosmic Sceptic doesn't deny the guest's reality while still trying to challenge his views in such a polite, honest and good-faith way. Respect!
There is only one reality, so it's not wrong to try to actually deny and challenge someone's views. Understanding that there are different vantage points from which to view reality.
I think the majority of reasonable people in any era would find it difficult to consider Rosa Parks undignified for merely continuing to sit down. Contrast this to the trans activsts who were intimidating a group of women by banging on the doors and windows of their meeting place, just because the women dared to call for female safe spaces; if the majority of society ever sees this as dignified then it could only mean civilisation is lost.
Alex, this was honestly the best interview I've seen with Douglas. You two had a certain chemistry and it was obvious that you challenging him was to his great pleasure. It is in conversations like this one that I - as a non-native speaker from Germany - perceive the epitome of Anglo-Saxon, especially English culture of parlance. Our culture has always had a dire lack of such grace and I feel grateful for being able to listen and watching talks like this one. Best from Berlin, Alex
Am English but just wanted to convey my admiration at your eloquence. You write especially well for a non-native and I'm inclined to agree with what you've said sir.
Likewise RP you have a lovely style and I was grateful for the insight you shared about a view of English culture from the perspective of someone from the Continent. Thank you.
I’ve never seen as formidable an interlocutor as Douglas Murray so rigorously engaged with . He really had to step up his game with this quick witted young men . Whose clarity of thought and lucidity of expression is impressive way beyond his years .
None of these popular contrarians, like Murray, Harris, Peterson, Shapiro, etc. have ever had their views legitimately challenged. They do everything they can to avoid any real or serious conversations by only talking to under-educated young people or by "debating" with random people on the street who aren't prepared for any type of arguing.
Whitney for real . If they stumble into a fight with a monster intellect , in this age of nano second mass circulation , that’s a carefully cultivated career of narrow rationalist proselytism up in smoke . So they curate ( carefully )
James Gillings ; “a poor man’s C Hitchens” . Hilarious , if he keeps at It . Say about 5 - 10 years voracious reading and unstinting skepticism , I’m sure he will have done a lot more to earn to your respect .
James Gillings how about we test Jordan’s dismissive reading of postmodernism by him being pitted against a a true Rottweiler of the school , not Zizek who , lovely man though he might be is as incoherent as they come . But I’ll definitely check out the Maajid / Murray debate . 👍🏽
This is the first time in a long time that I listen to an interview and am unable to tell which side of any issue the interviewer falls on. In most interviews (especially with controversial characters like Douglas Murray) it becomes very clear in the first 5-7 minutes which side of any debate the interviewer is on, this was really refreshing! I'm black and female and liberal but I'm sick of seeing the politically correct mob try insisting that black people and women be treated like sensitive babies who can't handle critical intellectual engagement with some of our characteristics in a way that it's perfectly accepted for things about "straight white men" to be so interrogated (e.g the hysteria over charles murray and his research). It's annoying to even have to make those qualifications about my "identity", but when I'm expressing these views online I'm often accused of being an angry straight white man just based off my holding them lol. Anyways, subscribed here and on Spotify, keep up the good work :)
Although I am not on the receiving end like you are of this undermining of black people and women I think it is just terrible and can't stand it. it is entirely counter productive to empowering the black women who could actually do with empowerment. What you describe is what Sargon of Akkad refers to as "the bigotry of low expectations'' where assumptions about black people are made as though they are innately more emotionally vulnerable, innately lacking in power, unable as individuals to perform better than white people so white people must have a handicap. we can see this bigotry in the lack of criticism for hip hops views on women where the same people would criticise that culture if white people were involved, we see this with calls to hire black people not for their expertise but for their skin colour which devalues their ability to hold expertise and increases the considerations placed on their skin colour alone, we see this when people make excuses for foreign religious cultures disrespect of women claiming that those cultural element should be respected because they are "others''. this bigotry of low expectation is an exclusion of black people into white social networks as social networks require an understanding of the behaviour that is expected.
The interviewer is not on Murray's side of the issues. If you look at his content he gave a speech about how veganism is a moral imperative which gives you some idea of his politics. He is an astute and engaged listener and questioner which gives him an agreeable affect but he is disagreeing with Murray and trying to pull the other way on every issue. And particularly on the reparations issue they felt very far apart and unable to meet.
@@nozemsagogo868 I agree that alex seems to disagree to some extent. However, the fact that he invited Douglas Murray on his podcast at all is telling. In a lot of instances it almost appeared as if Alex was playing dumb rather than expressing vigorous opposition. Alex is too smart to not comprehend the arguments, which makes it suspicious that he appeared not to in a couple instances. It makes me wonder if he is soft-pedaling to avoid problems.
I'm late getting here, but Douglas is right about the university system in the US. Since you have to pay regardless of the type of school you attend, and the costs are rising so much, "the college experience" has become a product. Students are able to make incredible demands of the staff and establishments because they're paying so much to be there. It's become an absurd setup.
I went to a community college, which is like the cheapest options you can get in the US, and it was around $7000 for 2 years tuition, not including books. Granted, I had assistance due to my father being in the military so I didn’t have to pay that. However, most of peers still had to take out student loans
@@heatherclark8668 I went to university in the US around that era. It was about $200 per semester. Later, when I went to graduate school, I was paid enough for room and board, as well as tuition (and I worked as a teaching assistant, which was fantastic). As someone else writes below, in effect: 'it cost a zillion dollars, but I was the one person of many who didn't pay that, because I had assistance.' Yep. Can't believe everything you read.
We have allowed the same corrupt mess to establish itself in Britain - to the direct effect of a dumbing down in both debate, conduct and reasoning. The epistemologically unsound and ignorantly reductive state of many erstwhile cutting edge courses is depressing and deadly to the state of the British research base and dare I say, democratic process. The formally rigorous subjects, the humanities in general are being decimated cut by cut. This begins in the state schools where grammar schools, the cradle of British intellectual life are cutting subjects as diverse and essential as ancient history, music, the classics and drama/theatre studies. The idea for those in charge is to delimit the critical/analytical abilities in most of the population - reserving these skills and praxis for the fee paying students at 'public' school where the aforementioned subjects are not only available but encouraged in order to produce an intellectually trained, if not always intellectually gifted, elite.
1) Uk universities are also very expensive 2) French universities are subsidized by the government and (luckily) radical leftist ideologies are more widespread in my country
I have been intently following the two of your careers for awhile now. I love both of your minds and am glad that you are recording your conversations.
@@Scoring57 What a weird statement and curious assumption to make. I took the OP as that the questions asked and the setup of the interaction wasn't a debate, i.e. antagonistic, but a normal conversation.
Wow. This was a GREAT interview brother. You even made me hold up my own views to scrutiny. This is the type of conversation that is missing in the US.
Probably because a lot of the "intellectual" thought leaders on the right like Ben Shapiro and Steven Crowder refuse to engage with qualified people that seriously push back against their ideas and instead "own the libs" by making gotcha youtube videos where they 'debate' non-media trained undergraduate students instead of actual qualified left wing intellectuals that have the debate/media training to call them out for the intellectually dishonest political agitators that they are. But yeah, I agree, US political discourse and their Overton window being so accepting of open white supremacy are a shit show that is socially 20 years behind many more civilized European countries and probably always will be.
No it’s not…we just got the interweb a few weekends ago, and are watching Jerry Springer…we ain’t hicks, as far as we can figure. Good thing you’re helping
I agree with Douglas Murray. My daughter ask me what is the point of history? I told her the point of history is to learn and remember not to repeat all the bad stuff that has happened in the world. I’ve never thought retrospective blame is a useful or justified action to punish future generations for something they had no control over. Remember history don’t escalate it. There’s far to many people using blame to make themselves feel better. Instead of protest and blame we should have question and solution.
Jim Laslett Psychology, Economics, Political Science, and Philosophy can pickup principles from history to come up with why some event is bad, how some things are prone to setting up that bad event, and if taken seriously, stop the event from repeating. Historians should do their thing, but screw history classes in k-8. I believe K-8, should setup history classes as detective games, where people are given evidence and people come up with arguments on what happened. The rest of the time that would be used for social studies, is used to study simplified concepts in the fields mentioned above.
Jim Laslett - Your idea on the purpose of history is far too narrow. History is the warp and weft of the tapestry of life. It provides texture and a background commentary to everything we do. It gives purpose to the past and a direction for the future. Without history, our short lives would be so shallow and two-dimensional.
John Eskins yep there is a lot more to history, I thought I’d keep the reason for history lessons short and positive as thirteen year old kids tend to have a short concentration span. I’m mean you could easily go into DNA, space and evolution the possibilities are endless! The question from the child was in the context of war
Whenever I see Douglas's interviews I always feel there's a lack of proper questions that could have been asked. But you asked such important questions and in such a great way.
I totally agree, although I should admit that not only is this the first interview I've seen with Douglas Murray, it's the first I'd heard of him. And though I'm a big fan of Alex, this is the first of his interview segments I've seen. [I'm sorry CS! I'm very busy!] I was worried that CS would perhaps be in over his head, or would go too far in one direction or the other with respect to his interview style - too combative, or agreeable etc. I see I needn't have worried. Well done Alex. I can't say the same for Mr. Murray. If he doesn't understand drag and the use of props being used from the Era of 1st-Wave Feminism, Trans issues, and the differences between them, then he's not in on the joke. [Nobody tell him]. Protests are bad, unless it's the American Civil Rights protests because they were so dignified and didn't inconvenience others? Had he heard of Rosa Parks prior to this interview? Had he never wikied "Selma Bus Boycott? " Black people shouldn't even be considered for reparations because, 'What about the Jews?' and "Where does it stop?" I don't know, Mr. Murray, but I know with whom it does not start. [And when it comes to Jews, that should perhaps be a question for Germany, no? Get your white genociders straight, sir, and good day!] And we shouldn't be devoting a quarter of our minds to the Trans movement? It would appear that you, Mr. Murray are the only one devoting so much to them, and making a few bucks in the process. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Jordan Peterson, minus all that charm!
@Daniel C. Harkins Jr. What lol? Murray is a class act from everything I have seen of him. He is also a gay man. So he does have up close and personal experience with that issue. The point he makes about the trans movement hurting gays by erasing them is brilliant and one I have never thought of. More and more detranstion stories are coming out and they actually share that very same point. They wish they had just been a gay male.. Brison Bpyce has a UA-cam channel that has alot of interviews with detrans people as well as some interviews of endocrinologist which are really eye opening on the point on what is happening with children. You are simply wrong.
Thank you, CosmicSkeptic, for being willing to have a civil dialogue on such controversial topics, even if you are in disagreement with Murray's point of view. We need more of this. My hat is off to you for demonstrating genuine courtesy and willingness to at least listen to the other side. So little of this seems to happen these days. For this reason you have my respect.
just found your podcast. you play devil's advocate better than anyone else i've ever heard. most people do it half-heartedly or incompletely. thank you for always finding the lever points in the arguments on both sides
Wow! Is this some kind of British approach to interviewing? The interviewer seems to have no agenda, and there is no sensationalism to the questions. His only agenda is to get the interviewee to give clear and detailed answers. I dare say that there has never been an interview like this conducted by a US interviewer!
I couldn't always tell if your questioning was to push Douglas for detailed answers or whether you genuinely had an opposing view. A good interviewer and an interesting interview!
@@larjkok1184 nope. Alex actually believes these things and the only reason he played friendly is to not embarrass Dougie any further. At one point around 40:30 Alex nervously laughs because Dougie is having trouble even stringing up a sentence. Doug is a pathetic excuse for a person
@@Jozaaaa Out of the few hundred comments I read during this interview yours was the most uncharitable, rude, confident and wrong, in a way that only a true ignoramus could muster. Congrats!
DUDE!!!! First time that picture(seen many times) manifested its full brain bending patterned almost musical complexity to my eyes!! Fuck me I almost passed out
Novak Ingood a man can overpower you and wants to violate your orifices which can hurt badly, this is an attack, how could you not be afraid of gays, that's not too say there's any hatred, just fear
@@call4sorrow1 Look this guy (Cosmic Skeptic) has some respect in the Catholic community because he at least was Catholic. However he is unable to understand basic Philosophy which is really infuriating. Also his ethics are @~?£!
@@crap867 Basing Political systems on Identity. It is not all bad but it can lead to people voting to satisfy their ethnic or religious background (which is not always good unless you are Catholic).
I watch a lot of political and intellectual things on UA-cam. This was one of the best and most thought provoking conversations I’ve seen in a long time. Awesome content and interviewing here sir.
Alex O'Connor, excellent job! What a great interviewer. Kept Douglas on his toes in some parts which is no mean feat!! Great job for both parties. I got sucked in. Very enjoyable
Alex is not remotely adversarial here, but he is making Murray work uncommonly hard for his supper, something one doesn't see too often in those settings you normally find the man. It's not Murray's fault that he tends to thrive when his opponents are clutching at their pearls and it does no good to fasten onto his haughtier tendencies when he is saying a great deal that's worthy of our deeper attention. Alex threads that needle.
I'm an Indian(in India) and absolutely agree with him on the point of retribution. It's silly and outrageous that people want Brits to pay to the people of the former colonies for what the former's ancestors did to the latter's! Most Brits today are not racists! Why do you want to harm them?!
@@W67w The people who want Britain to pay retributions to India for ¨Muh colonialial oppression" are the same people who defend Israel? Are you absolutely sure about that?
Britain owes nothing to it's former Colonies many places where shitholes before Britain got there we pulled them up by their Boot Straps in fact they should be Paying us
You clearly do not understand reparations. It is not about asking ordinary Brits to pay or harming them. They aren't living fat off the cow off slave money, genocide money, or ecocide money. There are Fortune 500 companies, huge mega-corporations and aristocratic families whose wealth can be DIRECTLY TRACED to profiting off enslaving and oppressing people and human rights abuses of the worst possible kind. These crimes are not HUNDREDS OF YEARS away. The traumas are one or two generations away. Jews were paid reparations. Indigenous peoples were paid reparations. Falsely incarcerated Japanese Americans were paid reparations. It is not some NOVEL idea. Nor do reparations have to take the form of $$$$$$. Why should exploited, raped, and abused countries still recovering from colonialism and constant destabilization still have to be paying DEBT to Europe? Just FORGIVE IT. Wipe the slate clean. That is reparations. Prosecuting and stopping any further ecocide in such countries and mandating fair trade. That is reparations. Scholarships and opportunities for gifted youth in those countries. That is reparations.
Douglas Murray. Brilliant, respectful and patient. I hope your audience reads his book and opens up to exploring thoughts other than what they've been taught for so long. I like his gentle way of saying he wants you not to waste your lifetime unweaving the fluid rainbow and working out exactly which colours go where. It's a damn shame and a horrible waste of time.
Because Alex doesn’t have a passionate conviction in the arguments he’s making. So there is a lack of emotion. Most debates are between two people who care deeply about their arguments, to the point where they define their characters.
@@FigmentHF That is actually an excellent point. Which is a good thing for the most part but I just wish Alex could have pushed back a bit more because so much of what Murray said was either incoherent or hypocritical...so so many strawmen and misrepresentations too. Alex seems like a good guy though.
Because people are too often motivated by wanting to win, as well as getting applause and approval, rather than being motivated by a wish to learn. Certainty is a foolish standpoint to take. This conversational method is far more effective.
Usually I stumble across videos and wonder 'How in the world does he have that many subscribers?' But with you, I can see why so many sub to you. You've really earned it being good at what you do. Well done!
Very informative interview. Alex, you do an excellent job of engaging Douglas and allowing him to express his points of view- well done. Douglas, clever, witty and thought provoking. Thank you both for sharing your thoughts on the topic!
Yeah you're right. There's barely any debate going on, and most of the feedback seems to imply that the interviewer is merely playing the devil's advocate. It's like it's another one of those faux debates where two pundits from the same side having a talk, and almost nothing is contributed to the discourse; where the goal isn't to make the listeners rethink any preconceived knowledge.
Fantastic interview. I couldn't encourage this type of dialog and conversation enough. It's so refreshing to listen to two people respectfully discuss ideas together.
Dougence K I wish it were better push back. This guy seems nice and smart but he isn’t as smart as he thinks he is. “ you have to have proof if you’re going to say that the non-binaries are off base.” Well, no you don’t. Show them a biology book and leave it with them. It’s their job to prove such a radical claim in the face of biological facts. Most of the other times when he tries to disagree he just winds up agreeing with him in the first two sentences of his explanation. 🤣 as somebody said up thread he’s got a real case of having to be the smartest guy in the room even when he sitting next to someone like Murray. Maybe he was nervous I don’t know this guys content.
@@brockmeeks1695 'biology book' lmao, to determine what is and what's not 'off base' you'd have to look into philosophy of gender LITERATURE, philosophy of language LITERATURE, genetics literature, psychology literature, psychiatry literature, sociology literature and more, not a 'biology book' whatever that means. Edit: biology LITERATURE too
Brock Meeks Why do there appear to be so many people like you nowadays that can’t seem to be able to deal with someone probing the logic of your intellectual hero. What makes this interviewer ‘want to be the smartest guy in the room’ just because he challenges the interviewee on their logic? His ‘proof...non-binaries’ statement firstly says: “give me some of the facts to back up your opinion”, an honest challenge to an interviewee who (rightly) states that all the LGBTQRSUVWXYZ fanatics need to come up with some more solid evidence of their opinions before going as drastic as operating on children etc. Secondly, that statement builds up to a challenge of Murray’s earlier argumentation against the extinction rebellion protesters. All this interviewer does is calmly probe Murray’s logic (which he appears to agree with most of the time, although he’s very professional in keeping his own opinion out of it) and pointing out where Murray may be taking some short-cuts that lead him to set a bit of a double standard (in limited occasions)
@@milton7763 You're overstating the reaction to what has happened here. I can do the same: "Why do there appear to be so many people like you nowadays that seem to project their own insecurities, emotional attachment and sometimes anger unto the person on the other side of the argument- and in the process not making one themselves?"
I am impressed that the interviewer listened to his guest and challenged him on what he said rather then ignoring his answer saying "right" and then jumping to the next question on his script.
Very good interview. That is the best questioning of Douglas Murry I have seen. Questions were very insightful especially the follow up questioning and made Murry work harder than I have ever seen. As always Murry was spot on with his answers but it was nice to see him have to work for it.
@Anti Cucho From what I remember when he did do that, the interviewer called him on it which is why i felt it was such a good interview. Murry had to work at giving his explanation for that exact reason. At the end of the day though there will be at least two sides to an argument and Murry is happy to defend his stance and the other supports cancel culture.
Douglas Murray is my favourite intellectual to listen to. I resonate with most of what he says, not just because it’s based around common sense but because he is learned in the subjects he discusses and makes you think. This interviewer is good and you can tell Douglas is enjoying the interaction. I listened to a debate Douglas had to arrive on screen because of covid - it was held in Amsterdam. His opponent in the debate was flavier from Switzerland who was muddled in liberalism, she proudly gave a 30 minutes list of what she wants and insulted Douglas openly, and when he asked her questions she couldn’t answer him. It was definitely a debate far beneath an intellectual mind like Douglas’s.
I love how Douglas Murray can be so inflamatory and lets Say politically incorrect, and at the same time be so collected and calm and remain unapologetic Such a delightful interview
Take it from an actual Brit: no he's not. His accent, manners, class and privilege are not typical of your average Englishman's. He's an Eton-educated, pantomime toff who fetishes illiberal right wing populist regimes like Orban's and provides cover for climate deniers (I say this as someone who agrees with him on lots of issues - immigration, the trans stuff, the woke stuff). He is a reactionary masquerading as a conservative, the right wing mirror image of the far-left woke types he despises - just as blinkered, just as prejudiced. @@misanthrophex
I don't love how he can be so unapologetic. He's voicing opinions, some of them derogatory and harmful, as if they are correct just because they're his.
What a stimulating session that flew by because it was so riveting. It's something to brag about that you can challenge Douglas Murray! Thank you so much, Alex.
Any expert in debate could challenge Douglas Murray. Look at who he debates. It's never anyone who can in any way challenge him. He will not debate Finkelstein for example.
@@aidanchapman8548you’re kidding? Fink can’t hold up against Dershowitz. He’s a useful idiot for Sheik Nabil Kaouk and his other Hezbollah backers. He should just go back to Lebanon and live with them permanently
@@gekkobear1650 I get that. Would just be interesting to see how Alex would respond to a capable sociologist for example, as Douglas says here that our society is not racist/sexist etc. However, this is completely overlooking the work of Kehinde Andrews/Akala/Paul Gilroy etc. But, if Alex is as interested in the truth as he says he is, then surely that would surpass the wants of some right wingers...
Hahah you can't be taken serious when you mention Ash. A far left self professed communist. Would you give the same time and ground to a far right? You also mention akala.....again....can't be taken serious.
This was honestly one of the most thought provoking conversation around these subjects. It is my first time listening to the podcast. I really appreciated the way Alex responded to many of the statements offering an alternative point of view and the way you can look at these issues, which at the moment both sides seem incapable of doing. Really enjoyed the talk Alex and ill be sure to listen to more talks, thanks.
@@asimhussain8716 I am so sick and tired of seeing comments like this. I 100% agree, it really annoys me. Theres heaps of videos of people like Matt Walsh or Jordan Peterson talking to someone like Joe Rogan (2 quick examples i came up with on the top of my head) where they say some of the most stupid, uncontested bs ever. But since their followers cant even disagree with anything they say they just end up spouting this nonsense that theyre glad people can talk about this openly. Like ffs. People watch these videos and dont learn anything new or bother trying to.
I don’t find this intellectually honest at all. Funny. He seems to have a clear agenda and has it wrapped up in a very pseudo-intellectual oratory style. It really screams of an imposter, without knowing much about the guy.
As a Grandmother of 75 with a 30 year old Grandson who is travelling down the LBGTQ+++ road, I found this discussion incredibly informative. I consider myself pretty liberal having participated in women’s & gay rights and anti-apartheid movements during the 60s, 70s and 80s in New Zealand. Now I find myself at odds with my Grandsons rhetoric on this ‘new wave’. I found your points of discussion logical, fascinating and (surprisingly) calming. Thank You.
Perhaps you might agree as I did with Douglas at 16:14 that there was a time when gay people had achieved acceptance and lived quiet lives meeting with people in their own world. I am an old geezer in my 70s and I remember during the 1970s and 1980s there were many clubs etc. where straight and gay rubbed shoulders and that was OK. I cannot comprehend this LGBT++++ view.
I've got to hand it to you, your steel man devil's advocacy game is on point. I've seen tons of interviews with Douglas Murray and the rest of the IDW crowd. It's very rare that they seriously grill each other though. You really kept him on his toes. I really wasn't expecting this to be as challenging as it was, not just for Douglas, but for me too. @53:27 - This bit made me smile. A bit of old skool athiest logic thrown in for good measure.
tbh, I thought some of the questions were kind of petty and a waste of time really. for example, "what is it that makes it a thing that exists within a culture (about racism, sexism etc.) rather than a cultural phenomena?" obviously A LOT! scale/proportion is the obvious answer here.
"if you think that it's false then you have your own proving to do" Time for Alex to prove that God doesn't exist. Also, I agree with L M. Alex presented himself as either ignorant or purposely obtuse. There is no other way around it.
I never thought I would see a smart leftist try to have a conversation again with someone on the right and I enjoyed it. The left is currently going throught kind of what the right went through around 2003. Paranoid war mongering, trying to silence opponents because of the insecure opinions they have.
I think this is an amazing interview. Regardless of my disagreements (which I admit are quite strong), with Murray, I think that it's valuable to talk about things
@@jamesedwards366 well, I'd rather get too much into it on tur internet, it's hard to have a good conversation with someone in this venue. But I'm a gross socialist liberal, so I'm pretty partial to intersectionality, I'm not convinced that trans rights infringes on gay rights, and a few other things. But like I said, I'd rather not discuss it much through UA-cam comments. Anyways, hopes this gives ya a good idea of what I think.
@@jamesedwards366 I think I understand what you are saying, but if my response seems strange, please clarify. It's my personal belief that we should not try to convince children of any pre-conceived gender roles or constructs. I have no problem with educating them on what sexes are, and if people want to raise their children as "boys and girls", then I can't really tell you not to, it's their child. However, as I said, I would not do that with my own child. I am still undecided on weather I would use traditional pronouns for my child. There are pros and cons each way. If a child shows to be what I consider "feminine" behavioral traits, I would probably not do much of anything. I am not in a place to decided what it means to be "feminine", so, just because I think it, doesn't mean I should tell a child they should or shouldn't be a certain way because of that. I am currently against using hormones on children though. Does any of that answer your question?
Thats his whole point. Talking about issues yes, always good. Having same issues defining an entire generation and filling almost all talk space up, is not.
Thanks for this installment of the podcast. It's very interesting to hear extended conversations with people who have views that conflict with your own. I don't understand why this style of friendly debate and exploration of ideas isn't accepted by everybody.
Because thanks to stupid Social Justice Warriors, everyone is extremely polarized to the Right or the Left and therefore, we are living in a time when this polarization of the political spectrum has played a huge part in dividing the population instead of encouraging both left-wingers and right-wingers to have a civil and culturally rich discussion. You'd better enjoy this interview because at this rate, interviews like this one might be less and less frequent due to social media, news and entertainment becoming too far-left for even moderate leftist people to handle the situation
@@Olyfrun I agree with you. Do you think maybe its just the idea of categorising them as "wrong" in advance? Anyway as you allude to, if you don't examine the most problematic issues, how are we ever going to learn from history? Which seems to be every historians fav refrain.
2/3rds of the way through and I'm thoroughly enjoying this. Well done Alex, playing devils advocate, presenting the nuance of the counter arguments and asking for clarification. It makes for an infinitely more enjoyable and complex conversation. I don't know if I've seen a better interview of Douglas.
Douglas needs to reanalyze his stance because the moment alex counters him, he would go into a thought like a dyslexic child who cannot understand the book. I've seen jordan peterson also going into such a trance when countered with questions about income inequality and capitalism. They just sit confused and are like, "yeah...what are we gonna do, huh...".
@@ss_avsmtyes. Attack a gay man. Because you have no rebuttal and prove you're a petulant unintelligent child over and over and over before you end your comment that did nothing bit prove you have no argument
@@ss_avsmt strange, I feel like what I just read was written by a dyslexic child. What exactly do you propose to the problem that everyone doesn't have the exact same amount of everything? Tell us... When Douglas reanalyzes his stance, where are you hoping he lands? What ARE we going to do indeed?
Wow, I've listened to about four different interviews with Murray, but this one is the best one. Alex asks the correct questions the right way. Tough, tough interviewer without being antagonistic. He's just getting right down to the meat and potatoes.
No one owes apology or reparations for something they didn’t personally do. If there was oppression from your ancestors onto others, that wasn’t you, so you don’t owe anything for it.
This was very good interview. Cogent, intelligent and fair questions. You allowed him adequate time to answer questions with a minimal interruption. Thoroughly enjoyable.
Christ, what's up with all this "I'm not gay" shit? Any reasonable person knows you can acknowledge someone of the same sex is attractive without wanting to fuck them. Stuff like this actually makes me slightly dubious of how much progress has been made in the progression of sexual dialogue.
@@harryradley Chill out. Ever considered it's part of the joke? As in the added benefit of someone saying it who isn't sexually interested in the person, enhances the compliment as it now supposedly isn't mere flattery but a statement of fact. As such it adds comic release after an otherwise creepy comment --> it's a joke, stop projecting.
Never anyone else fault, we don't actually find fault lines in the arguments put forth because they get distorted and redirected and obfuscated.So, even if they wrest gracious enough to say, let's call it all off, it's worth asking why someone who is NOT transexual would be willing to endure that kind of torment.
MichaelKingsfordGray the radical left will be on the wrong side of history, for their grotesque defence of Islam and sharia law - which literally sees women put on death row in Pakistan for blasphemy and gay people tortured in Chechnya.
@@JonJon-rz5el tHe RaDiCaL lEfT... don’t you think it’s rather all Western societies, regardless of their governments, who avoid to sanction these theocratic dictatorships, because they have to kiss their asses in order to be able to continue to pillage the said dictatorships of their primary resources?
Exactly, EA. And "the left" arent on the side of the Islamists. Some maybe but not the majority. But yeah, the status quo, America TM, has always backed the Islamists. Saudi Arabia are among the worst and we kiss their asses like nobodys business. So, we only vilify the ones we dont need, that's how history will be written
@@EA-js1me I totally agree with you on the western point. Still he's right, the radical left or some groups of the left are in a severe cognitive dissonance (like my sister who's muslim but with a lifestyle that would put her on a death row in some radical muslim country) Most of the time on the basis of a supposed islamophobia. Here's an exemple:ua-cam.com/video/INZfPHFzFAI/v-deo.html
As I've been with Alex since a very early point in this youtube adventure, I am utterly fascinated by (and voraciously curious about) the process of getting high-profile voices such as Murray and Dawkins on his podcast. I smile with pride at his growing success and near-limitless potential going forward.
Degrees from oxford open a lot of doors. Hes actually deserving though, imo. He'll really go far. His ability to self reflect and critique his own views really puts him ahead of all these old reactionary types. According to Murray progressives are always wrong and destructive. Alex clearly sees the value in progressive reforms
Alex, I don't know if you've a warped 'modern' logic, or if you are just a contrarian. Douglas took it easy on you. The premise that 'You punched me in the face, so now I get to punch you equally' does not hold for the race thing in America. The wronged people, as the people who committed the wrong, are all long dead. How far back do you want to go? Do we as indigenous Britons claim reparations from Italy, Denmark Sweden and Norway for being conquered and enslaved? The blacks descended from former slaves should really be pursuing the tribal leaders of the black tribes in Africa who were the ones who captured them and sold them into slavery.
I'm about halfway through the debate (interview). This is the first video I've seen from this channel and I have to say, I'm impressed by the interviewer. Played devil's advocate quite well.
shoutout to the interviewer. i really like the way he frames the questions and subsequent follow up questions. one of the best,concise and nuanced interviews ive seen been orchestrated in a while.
Meh. Murray’s opponent was merely a contrarian. He was handled easily. Philosophers are the fat left over from real life. They appear clever, but offer nothing to the real world. They can’t do anything other than talk. Talk achieves nothing.
Wow very strong interviewer. Constantly pushes without becoming aggressive. I'm a Douglas Murray fan and I've never seen him pushed this hard. I'll have to watch more!
It is very comforting to read the comments and see some viewers in depth understanding regarding the complexity of both views. Personally i love to watch both intellectuals, and perhaps not always fully understand the complexity of their respective views.
Excellent interview. A great example of how people who educate themselves on a subject and can still show respect for one another even with different points of view. A good interview such as this provoke thinking. Very refreshing Thank you.
45:27 I think it was right to challenge Murray on this because it is quite a weasely tactic, an example I find useful is age of consent laws. Just because drawing a line is tricky doesn't mean we abandon the whole project.
Nah, rape is clearly defined as the need of consensual penetration, other wise it’s assault, and assault requires physical touch. These are all extremely cut and dry where they lay and where they start. I understand what he was saying, drawing lines is difficult but it’s got to be done (like arbitrary cash values for income tax brackets) but I don’t think this example was substantial.
Most interviews I’ve seen just appear to give Douglas Murray a sympathetic platform unchallenged, A pleasant change to see him have to defend his views
As a trans male, i would like to point out that most sane members of the community do agree that placing a trans term in a child is extremely hurtful.
Raise a child as their born gender, allow them open borders within it but don't overly talk or push the discussion with a child.
Nice to hear from a reasonable person on the trans side
@@RedWolfVids it's unintentionagent and harmful can be more harmful n8tbto
@@RedWolfVids Welcome to the concept of the silent majority.
Need more trans people like you, and have your voice heard.
@@stevenwu235 yeah, show me that definition.
Excellent show! It was refreshing to see an interviewer give Murray some seriously intelligent and good-faith pushback on his views. In most interviews I've seen with him, he's either being lambasted by accusations of (insert)phobia, or is simply talking to someone who already knows they agree with him on practically every issue (ie, Rubin Report).
‘I agree with that’
I spent the entire interview distracted by the wallpaper.
So true !!!!
A neutral background would be better.
I am buying some
it’s like that white dot illusion where you only see the dots when you’re not looking directly at them
😂 It's very loud. It's nice though.
Me too . Mad crazy wallpaper,totally distracting
This is why I love Alex. He always makes the effort to represent the opposite view as charitable as possible. That’s the intellectual honest way, and that’s what’s make the discussion worthwhile.
The thing is there is a difference between the right view and the opposite view. They are light and dark. Truth and absence of truth.
@@ShareAMeal77🎯🎯🎯
I agree, but it frustrates me when he would reframe an argument as it is more likely be advanced by the people who make it, and Douglas would just dodge it and maneuver back to his framing.
Like, when Alex pointed out that “our ancestors had hard lives too” doesn’t defeat the argument for reparations, because the argument is you are benefiting from that legacy NOW, and they are still suffering from that legacy NOW… I would’ve been very interested to hear Douglas response to that, but instead he took it back to “should we transfer money to Jewish people too?”
@@keithmackenzie7680Reparations = Systemic racism
Yes he does, but I think he is too committed to it, especially when the opposite view had evidence bearing upon it. Being open-minded admirable but be careful that your brain doesn’t fall out.
"Well Twitter and the real world are different things of course."
Sure wish certain people would learn that this is the case
Unfortunately, certain people lack any properties that would facilitate learning anything of worth.
@fynes leigh It [Well] serves to directly quote Douglas Murray's statement in its totality. Something you may find doesn't happen to often on Twitter. Now Twitter, if you aren't aware, is a "social media utility" quite comparable to a sound bite in form in that it requires all posts or replies to be 280 characters or less. It's a cesspool of vermin all seething in this orgy of outrage and virtue signaling. Lovely place really. If you haven't acquainted yourself with its majesty, I advise you to create an account immediately. You'll come to love yourself and fellow man more fully. This I guarantee to you.
Would a guy with the number of the beast as a profile picture ever lie to a stranger on UA-cam? I dont think so.
Ricky Gervais said that Twitter is like reading every coment on every toilet wall in Britain.
@fynes leigh I can't tell if you're being ironic or if you're genuinely confused.
I'm surprised he admitted it, Elliot
I've never seen Douglas Murray unshaven and dressed so casually.
@White Brad Bad damn straight! (I love saying that all a gay man)
I came for the dialogue, but I stayed for the eye candy. :-)
the Jordan Peterson effect.
And suddenly he is like 1000 times more attractive... ... Strange !
I'd smash
Wow. This interviewer is brilliant. I’ve never heard someone debate with Douglas quite this way, I’m a big fan of Doug Murray. I’m a big fan of you both now! Good work.
Totally agree. He presses Murray well. For instance 54:40 Appealing to scientific consensus when convenient, after dismissing the most tested science in the history of mankind?
I agree. However I think Douglas pushes back rather effectively. Jordan Peterson has laid this groundwork much more effectively however; right up from the binary nature of sex up through the accumulation of sex specific psychological characteristics to the sex dependent occupational preferences exhibited in the most egalitarian societies, which is the best that current research has to offer
They’re both master debaters.
Right? He makes me proud to be a Brit. And I'm a Christian black woman
No gotcha questions, no so-what-your-saying, no rage outburst, no 60 min interview conveniently frankensteined into a twitter compliant 20secs sound bite.
Much better that way.
This is my first time watching this channel. mainly because of Douglas Murray. I absolutely appreciate the way this discussion unravelled. I wouldn't describe this as an actual debate, definitely not an interview, But a very critical discussion.
Yes, I got her via the same route. Also very impressed by this host.
Why Douglas? Something wrong with you?
@@jpw5029 i love Douglas Murray's debates. I see Douglas Murray in a video debating someone, I click. It's not that hard to understand.
@@jacobboeser ahh, your stupid, fair enough.
I love watching Douglas being skewered with his own illogical logic.
Scruffy Douglas is my new favorite version of Mr. Murray.
I agree. Scruffy Douglas is beautiful.
Definitely seductive. Cosmic drank some water so early in the interview. He was THIRSTY.
@@FoxyFAsh Actually, to the list of accolades now bestowed upon our beautiful Douglas and his new look, I would add HOT AS FUCK!
@Laurence D I completely disagree. Most (not all) handsome men are even more hot with a beard. And some guys who aren't all that attractive suddenly morph into a hottie because of a beard. I, for one, am so sick of the clean-cut look, so glad that has taken the back seat for a while. I hope the beard trend lasts a good long time. And when I say beard, I mean a nice, well-kept beard, not some ghastly, untamed, frightening rats nest.
@Laurence D dude, you see enemies where there are none.
Never seen someone push Douglas to pause to answer, or even reword his answers as many times in one interview. Brilliant from both participants.
Its incredible that this kid Is only 20 years old
@@estefaniaboujon6830 nah you can tell he is 20. Educated? yes. Indoctrinated? surely.
@@chrisv384 He is equable and civil during this entire discussion. It seems far more clear that Murray is indoctrinated into believing his own hype, not adequately countering the criticisms levied or unsubstantiated claims.
@@chrisv384 if someone has applied critical thinking and studies various perspectives and still come to a different perspective from you it doesn’t actually mean they are indoctrinated. It is possible they just disagree with you.
Alex is anything but indoctrinated. He questions himself and everyone as a rule, so... yeah, you just disagree with him. Alex is much more brilliant than that boomer. Hes so set in his ways. Its sad
I love how Cosmic Sceptic doesn't deny the guest's reality while still trying to challenge his views in such a polite, honest and good-faith way. Respect!
There is only one reality, so it's not wrong to try to actually deny and challenge someone's views. Understanding that there are different vantage points from which to view reality.
That's because Alex agrees with Douglas, he is just playing Devil's Advocate
Yes! Exactly, I like how Alex will sometimes play devils advocate with his guests
@@GeroG3N what gives you the impression he is playing Devil's Advocate?
I just wish he’d move a step further. He exposed Murray a few times without Murray realising it. It would have been good if he’d let him know.
What Rosa Parks did, was very undignified in the eyes of the society in which she lived at the time.
and by me right now.
@@henryholz88 Ha, I don't think you have a very sophisticated understanding of dignity.
I think the majority of reasonable people in any era would find it difficult to consider Rosa Parks undignified for merely continuing to sit down. Contrast this to the trans activsts who were intimidating a group of women by banging on the doors and windows of their meeting place, just because the women dared to call for female safe spaces; if the majority of society ever sees this as dignified then it could only mean civilisation is lost.
So was what the angry mustouche model did in Germany.
I know what you're trying to say, but it falls flat on its face. It's a bad argument.
@@TeeheeTennessy THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE. Hitler was loved, admired and followed by the german people in his time. Are you ok?
Alex, this was honestly the best interview I've seen with Douglas. You two had a certain chemistry and it was obvious that you challenging him was to his great pleasure. It is in conversations like this one that I - as a non-native speaker from Germany - perceive the epitome of Anglo-Saxon, especially English culture of parlance. Our culture has always had a dire lack of such grace and I feel grateful for being able to listen and watching talks like this one. Best from Berlin, Alex
Am English but just wanted to convey my admiration at your eloquence. You write especially well for a non-native and I'm inclined to agree with what you've said sir.
@@johnnysturgis6904 Well, I speak much worse than I write! - but thank you, Sir, very gracious of you!
Our cultrue does not and has never lacked that.
Oh they have chemistry alright... who is the top do you think?
Likewise RP you have a lovely style and I was grateful for the insight you shared about a view of English culture from the perspective of someone from the Continent. Thank you.
I’ve never seen as formidable an interlocutor as Douglas Murray so rigorously engaged with . He really had to step up his game with this quick witted young men . Whose clarity of thought and lucidity of expression is impressive way beyond his years .
None of these popular contrarians, like Murray, Harris, Peterson, Shapiro, etc. have ever had their views legitimately challenged. They do everything they can to avoid any real or serious conversations by only talking to under-educated young people or by "debating" with random people on the street who aren't prepared for any type of arguing.
Whitney for real . If they stumble into a fight with a monster intellect , in this age of nano second mass circulation , that’s a carefully cultivated career of narrow rationalist proselytism up in smoke . So they curate ( carefully )
You are blowing so much smoke up his rectum when he’s just a poor mans C Hitchens.
James Gillings ; “a poor man’s C Hitchens” . Hilarious , if he keeps at It . Say about 5 - 10 years voracious reading and unstinting skepticism , I’m sure he will have done a lot more to earn to your respect .
James Gillings how about we test Jordan’s dismissive reading of postmodernism by him being pitted against a a true Rottweiler of the school , not Zizek who , lovely man though he might be is as incoherent as they come . But I’ll definitely check out the Maajid / Murray debate . 👍🏽
This is the first time in a long time that I listen to an interview and am unable to tell which side of any issue the interviewer falls on. In most interviews (especially with controversial characters like Douglas Murray) it becomes very clear in the first 5-7 minutes which side of any debate the interviewer is on, this was really refreshing! I'm black and female and liberal but I'm sick of seeing the politically correct mob try insisting that black people and women be treated like sensitive babies who can't handle critical intellectual engagement with some of our characteristics in a way that it's perfectly accepted for things about "straight white men" to be so interrogated (e.g the hysteria over charles murray and his research). It's annoying to even have to make those qualifications about my "identity", but when I'm expressing these views online I'm often accused of being an angry straight white man just based off my holding them lol. Anyways, subscribed here and on Spotify, keep up the good work :)
Although I am not on the receiving end like you are of this undermining of black people and women I think it is just terrible and can't stand it. it is entirely counter productive to empowering the black women who could actually do with empowerment. What you describe is what Sargon of Akkad refers to as "the bigotry of low expectations'' where assumptions about black people are made as though they are innately more emotionally vulnerable, innately lacking in power, unable as individuals to perform better than white people so white people must have a handicap. we can see this bigotry in the lack of criticism for hip hops views on women where the same people would criticise that culture if white people were involved, we see this with calls to hire black people not for their expertise but for their skin colour which devalues their ability to hold expertise and increases the considerations placed on their skin colour alone, we see this when people make excuses for foreign religious cultures disrespect of women claiming that those cultural element should be respected because they are "others''. this bigotry of low expectation is an exclusion of black people into white social networks as social networks require an understanding of the behaviour that is expected.
The interviewer is not on Murray's side of the issues. If you look at his content he gave a speech about how veganism is a moral imperative which gives you some idea of his politics. He is an astute and engaged listener and questioner which gives him an agreeable affect but he is disagreeing with Murray and trying to pull the other way on every issue. And particularly on the reparations issue they felt very far apart and unable to meet.
@@nozemsagogo868 I agree that alex seems to disagree to some extent. However, the fact that he invited Douglas Murray on his podcast at all is telling. In a lot of instances it almost appeared as if Alex was playing dumb rather than expressing vigorous opposition. Alex is too smart to not comprehend the arguments, which makes it suspicious that he appeared not to in a couple instances. It makes me wonder if he is soft-pedaling to avoid problems.
Haha! Well done, and well said.
that's because often times it truly is white guys pretending to be black just to attempt to lessen the perception of bigotry inherent in their views
I'm late getting here, but Douglas is right about the university system in the US. Since you have to pay regardless of the type of school you attend, and the costs are rising so much, "the college experience" has become a product. Students are able to make incredible demands of the staff and establishments because they're paying so much to be there. It's become an absurd setup.
I went to a community college, which is like the cheapest options you can get in the US, and it was around $7000 for 2 years tuition, not including books. Granted, I had assistance due to my father being in the military so I didn’t have to pay that. However, most of peers still had to take out student loans
@@heatherclark8668 I went to university in the US around that era. It was about $200 per semester. Later, when I went to graduate school, I was paid enough for room and board, as well as tuition (and I worked as a teaching assistant, which was fantastic). As someone else writes below, in effect: 'it cost a zillion dollars, but I was the one person of many who didn't pay that, because I had assistance.' Yep. Can't believe everything you read.
Abzurd indeed 🐸
We have allowed the same corrupt mess to establish itself in Britain - to the direct effect of a dumbing down in both debate, conduct and reasoning. The epistemologically unsound and ignorantly reductive state of many erstwhile cutting edge courses is depressing and deadly to the state of the British research base and dare I say, democratic process. The formally rigorous subjects, the humanities in general are being decimated cut by cut. This begins in the state schools where grammar schools, the cradle of British intellectual life are cutting subjects as diverse and essential as ancient history, music, the classics and drama/theatre studies. The idea for those in charge is to delimit the critical/analytical abilities in most of the population - reserving these skills and praxis for the fee paying students at 'public' school where the aforementioned subjects are not only available but encouraged in order to produce an intellectually trained, if not always intellectually gifted, elite.
1) Uk universities are also very expensive
2) French universities are subsidized by the government and (luckily) radical leftist ideologies are more widespread in my country
I have been intently following the two of your careers for awhile now. I love both of your minds and am glad that you are recording your conversations.
Would not characterize this as a debate. Interview with Douglas would be a more appropriate title.
Either way, pretty enjoyable.
RWSB1000
Ha, you don't seem to like the idea of him being debated and challenged by someone like CosmicSkeptic
RWSB1000 Indeed! More of a genuine, probing interview. And very well executed
RWSB1000 fuckin SNOWFLAKE
I think he wants to distance himself from Murray's views
@@Scoring57 What a weird statement and curious assumption to make.
I took the OP as that the questions asked and the setup of the interaction wasn't a debate, i.e. antagonistic, but a normal conversation.
I’ve just spent 1/2 an hour listening but count how many shapes I can make out of that wallpaper
I too was completely hypnotised by that back drop, I want it in my room now.
It is merkaba...sparkle of life
³³³Cube³³³
Wow. This was a GREAT interview brother. You even made me hold up my own views to scrutiny. This is the type of conversation that is missing in the US.
Probably because a lot of the "intellectual" thought leaders on the right like Ben Shapiro and Steven Crowder refuse to engage with qualified people that seriously push back against their ideas and instead "own the libs" by making gotcha youtube videos where they 'debate' non-media trained undergraduate students instead of actual qualified left wing intellectuals that have the debate/media training to call them out for the intellectually dishonest political agitators that they are. But yeah, I agree, US political discourse and their Overton window being so accepting of open white supremacy are a shit show that is socially 20 years behind many more civilized European countries and probably always will be.
America 2 dum
No it’s not…we just got the interweb a few weekends ago, and are watching Jerry Springer…we ain’t hicks, as far as we can figure.
Good thing you’re helping
I agree with Douglas Murray. My daughter ask me what is the point of history? I told her the point of history is to learn and remember not to repeat all the bad stuff that has happened in the world.
I’ve never thought retrospective blame is a useful or justified action to punish future generations for something they had no control over.
Remember history don’t escalate it.
There’s far to many people using blame to make themselves feel better. Instead of protest and blame we should have question and solution.
WELL SAID, good sir!!!
Jim Laslett
Psychology, Economics, Political Science, and Philosophy can pickup principles from history to come up with why some event is bad, how some things are prone to setting up that bad event, and if taken seriously, stop the event from repeating. Historians should do their thing, but screw history classes in k-8. I believe K-8, should setup history classes as detective games, where people are given evidence and people come up with arguments on what happened. The rest of the time that would be used for social studies, is used to study simplified concepts in the fields mentioned above.
This is exactly why I believe history is important and too often ignored.
Jim Laslett - Your idea on the purpose of history is far too narrow. History is the warp and weft of the tapestry of life. It provides texture and a background commentary to everything we do. It gives purpose to the past and a direction for the future. Without history, our short lives would be so shallow and two-dimensional.
John Eskins yep there is a lot more to history, I thought I’d keep the reason for history lessons short and positive as thirteen year old kids tend to have a short concentration span. I’m mean you could easily go into DNA, space and evolution the possibilities are endless!
The question from the child was in the context of war
Whenever I see Douglas's interviews I always feel there's a lack of proper questions that could have been asked. But you asked such important questions and in such a great way.
I totally agree, although I should admit that not only is this the first interview I've seen with Douglas Murray, it's the first I'd heard of him. And though I'm a big fan of Alex, this is the first of his interview segments I've seen. [I'm sorry CS! I'm very busy!] I was worried that CS would perhaps be in over his head, or would go too far in one direction or the other with respect to his interview style - too combative, or agreeable etc. I see I needn't have worried. Well done Alex. I can't say the same for Mr. Murray. If he doesn't understand drag and the use of props being used from the Era of 1st-Wave Feminism, Trans issues, and the differences between them, then he's not in on the joke. [Nobody tell him]. Protests are bad, unless it's the American Civil Rights protests because they were so dignified and didn't inconvenience others? Had he heard of Rosa Parks prior to this interview? Had he never wikied "Selma Bus Boycott? " Black people shouldn't even be considered for reparations because, 'What about the Jews?' and "Where does it stop?" I don't know, Mr. Murray, but I know with whom it does not start. [And when it comes to Jews, that should perhaps be a question for Germany, no? Get your white genociders straight, sir, and good day!] And we shouldn't be devoting a quarter of our minds to the Trans movement? It would appear that you, Mr. Murray are the only one devoting so much to them, and making a few bucks in the process. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Jordan Peterson, minus all that charm!
@@heydannypark cringe
@Daniel C. Harkins Jr. What lol?
Murray is a class act from everything I have seen of him.
He is also a gay man. So he does have up close and personal experience with that issue.
The point he makes about the trans movement hurting gays by erasing them is brilliant and one I have never thought of.
More and more detranstion stories are coming out and they actually share that very same point.
They wish they had just been a gay male..
Brison Bpyce has a UA-cam channel that has alot of interviews with detrans people as well as some interviews of endocrinologist which are really eye opening on the point on what is happening with children.
You are simply wrong.
@@dontworryaboutit5490 wow what a great point, excellent rebuttal
@@briangueringer3673 being gay doesn't absolve him from anti lgbtq bigotry.
Jewish nazis also exist.
Douglas has gone from pasty nerd to rugged hunk.
Haha yeh he's hench
I am sure he fancies Alex too cos he's objectively pretty cute
He literally doesn't even look like the same person. Just shows that a tan and some scruff can make a person go from geek to hot.
I bet Douglas picks up a rock every time someone calls him a name... he's done a lot of lifting.
from twink to bear
Can't believe Alex failed to ask the most important qustion of all: "Why are you geh?"
That question works both ways.
Because he is physically attracted to men. Duh.
@@shortscenes9338how so?
@@shortscenes9338so does your mum.
Who says I am geh?
Thank you, CosmicSkeptic, for being willing to have a civil dialogue on such controversial topics, even if you are in disagreement with Murray's point of view. We need more of this. My hat is off to you for demonstrating genuine courtesy and willingness to at least listen to the other side. So little of this seems to happen these days. For this reason you have my respect.
just found your podcast. you play devil's advocate better than anyone else i've ever heard. most people do it half-heartedly or incompletely. thank you for always finding the lever points in the arguments on both sides
Wow! Is this some kind of British approach to interviewing? The interviewer seems to have no agenda, and there is no sensationalism to the questions. His only agenda is to get the interviewee to give clear and detailed answers. I dare say that there has never been an interview like this conducted by a US interviewer!
To be fair you can't really play devil's advocate against Murray. Cause he is already doing it
I couldn't always tell if your questioning was to push Douglas for detailed answers or whether you genuinely had an opposing view. A good interviewer and an interesting interview!
The purpose is to dig down, play devils advocate.
@@larjkok1184 nope. Alex actually believes these things and the only reason he played friendly is to not embarrass Dougie any further. At one point around 40:30 Alex nervously laughs because Dougie is having trouble even stringing up a sentence. Doug is a pathetic excuse for a person
"I liked it because i didn't have to think about whether i was wrong or not"
@@Jozaaaa Lmao you could play a movie on the side of a skyscraper in 4K ultra HD with projection that powerful
@@Jozaaaa Out of the few hundred comments I read during this interview yours was the most uncharitable, rude, confident and wrong, in a way that only a true ignoramus could muster. Congrats!
I've just come across your UA-cam site and find you a very refreshing individual especially in the way you interview people,
Goddammit, i'm way too distracted with that wallpaper
DUDE!!!! First time that picture(seen many times) manifested its full brain bending patterned almost musical complexity to my eyes!! Fuck me I almost passed out
Did you recognize that you can build stars with that pattern and a part of the star is also part of the star next to it?
@@Duconi I didn't notice that, but I actually was trying to fold the shapes and the patterns onto themselves in my head, like folding a cardboard box.
You wankers. I wish hadn't read this as now I'm folding stars in to stars in to stars in to fucking more stars
After reading five comments it's official:
This is the realest talk on this entire comment section
This is neither here nor there but isn't Murray one handsome man
Can I agree, even though I am a homophobe?
They are both quite handsome 🤷🏻♂️
No
Novak Ingood a man can overpower you and wants to violate your orifices which can hurt badly, this is an attack, how could you not be afraid of gays, that's not too say there's any hatred, just fear
@@sneesus98 wqw
Www
This guy's devil's advocate is more calm, coherent, and we'll structured than people who actually believe in pushing identity politics. Good podcast
What?
@@johnnotrealname8168 the kid basically agreed with him on 90% of what he said...…. TA-DA!
What is identity politics?
@@call4sorrow1 Look this guy (Cosmic Skeptic) has some respect in the Catholic community because he at least was Catholic. However he is unable to understand basic Philosophy which is really infuriating. Also his ethics are @~?£!
@@crap867 Basing Political systems on Identity. It is not all bad but it can lead to people voting to satisfy their ethnic or religious background (which is not always good unless you are Catholic).
I came here for Mr Murray, Im subscribing for how cosmic skeptic conducted the interview. Very good!
Same.
He's not always that good, if he's improved. I'll have a look
Good chat, well thought through devil’s advocate challenges too! Kudos to the host.
I watch a lot of political and intellectual things on UA-cam. This was one of the best and most thought provoking conversations I’ve seen in a long time. Awesome content and interviewing here sir.
exceptional interviewer
You haven't seen it much because the UA-cam algorithm doesn't like it.
@@asimhussain8716 Dayum broooo
Alex O'Connor, excellent job! What a great interviewer. Kept Douglas on his toes in some parts which is no mean feat!! Great job for both parties. I got sucked in. Very enjoyable
Alex is not remotely adversarial here, but he is making Murray work uncommonly hard for his supper, something one doesn't see too often in those settings you normally find the man. It's not Murray's fault that he tends to thrive when his opponents are clutching at their pearls and it does no good to fasten onto his haughtier tendencies when he is saying a great deal that's worthy of our deeper attention. Alex threads that needle.
Whether one doesnt support his ideas, really, how many here can support that Douglas Murray looks hella fresh with that beard?
If I was gay, let me tell ya... Rock that world.
@@austinlittle6154 stop objectifying this man's beard...
I support his ideas and his beard.
Is this the circle jerk? Been looking for you guys
I don't support his ideas, but I DO support the beard.
This is one of my favorite interviews anywhere of all time. Brilliantly simple and totally complex. Thanks gentlemen!
I'm a big leftie. Douglas Murray would be a lot more likeable if he did interviews like this more often than the usual right wing nut jobs
@@kratos.8151 How u like ripping Hercules apart?
I'm an Indian(in India) and absolutely agree with him on the point of retribution.
It's silly and outrageous that people want Brits to pay to the people of the former colonies for what the former's ancestors did to the latter's!
Most Brits today are not racists! Why do you want to harm them?!
Yet the same people defend Israel!
@@W67w The people who want Britain to pay retributions to India for ¨Muh colonialial oppression" are the same people who defend Israel?
Are you absolutely sure about that?
Britain owes nothing to it's former Colonies many places where shitholes before Britain got there we pulled them up by their Boot Straps in fact they should be Paying us
You clearly do not understand reparations. It is not about asking ordinary Brits to pay or harming them. They aren't living fat off the cow off slave money, genocide money, or ecocide money. There are Fortune 500 companies, huge mega-corporations and aristocratic families whose wealth can be DIRECTLY TRACED to profiting off enslaving and oppressing people and human rights abuses of the worst possible kind. These crimes are not HUNDREDS OF YEARS away. The traumas are one or two generations away. Jews were paid reparations. Indigenous peoples were paid reparations. Falsely incarcerated Japanese Americans were paid reparations. It is not some NOVEL idea. Nor do reparations have to take the form of $$$$$$.
Why should exploited, raped, and abused countries still recovering from colonialism and constant destabilization still have to be paying DEBT to Europe? Just FORGIVE IT. Wipe the slate clean. That is reparations.
Prosecuting and stopping any further ecocide in such countries and mandating fair trade. That is reparations.
Scholarships and opportunities for gifted youth in those countries. That is reparations.
Because Marxists infiltrated our schools and have been twisting the minds of the youth for decades.
Douglas Murray. Brilliant, respectful and patient. I hope your audience reads his book and opens up to exploring thoughts other than what they've been taught for so long. I like his gentle way of saying he wants you not to waste your lifetime unweaving the fluid rainbow and working out exactly which colours go where. It's a damn shame and a horrible waste of time.
and yet ironically, he make a career from doing precisely this....
You said it, this is more of a _challenge_ session than a "debate"
Why can‘t everyone debate like this? This is so immensely valuable, I have nothing but respect and gratitude for those two!
In essence, because it takes a long time.
Because Alex doesn’t have a passionate conviction in the arguments he’s making. So there is a lack of emotion.
Most debates are between two people who care deeply about their arguments, to the point where they define their characters.
@@FigmentHF That is actually an excellent point. Which is a good thing for the most part but I just wish Alex could have pushed back a bit more because so much of what Murray said was either incoherent or hypocritical...so so many strawmen and misrepresentations too. Alex seems like a good guy though.
@Deferential Introspector I never said it was
Because people are too often motivated by wanting to win, as well as getting applause and approval, rather than being motivated by a wish to learn. Certainty is a foolish standpoint to take. This conversational method is far more effective.
Usually I stumble across videos and wonder 'How in the world does he have that many subscribers?'
But with you, I can see why so many sub to you. You've really earned it being good at what you do. Well done!
Very informative interview. Alex, you do an excellent job of engaging Douglas and allowing him to express his points of view- well done. Douglas, clever, witty and thought provoking. Thank you both for sharing your thoughts on the topic!
"Critical inteview" would be a more appropriate title, however, the video is still amazing
Yeah you're right. There's barely any debate going on, and most of the feedback seems to imply that the interviewer is merely playing the devil's advocate.
It's like it's another one of those faux debates where two pundits from the same side having a talk, and almost nothing is contributed to the discourse; where the goal isn't to make the listeners rethink any preconceived knowledge.
Fantastic interview. I couldn't encourage this type of dialog and conversation enough. It's so refreshing to listen to two people respectfully discuss ideas together.
I sure like it when people are polite to white supremacists! Had we done that in the 1930s, WW2 would never have happened!
Idiot.
I like Douglas Murray. It's refreshing though to have pushback when interviewing him.
Dougence K I wish it were better push back. This guy seems nice and smart but he isn’t as smart as he thinks he is. “ you have to have proof if you’re going to say that the non-binaries are off base.” Well, no you don’t. Show them a biology book and leave it with them. It’s their job to prove such a radical claim in the face of biological facts. Most of the other times when he tries to disagree he just winds up agreeing with him in the first two sentences of his explanation. 🤣 as somebody said up thread he’s got a real case of having to be the smartest guy in the room even when he sitting next to someone like Murray. Maybe he was nervous I don’t know this guys content.
@@brockmeeks1695 'biology book' lmao, to determine what is and what's not 'off base' you'd have to look into philosophy of gender LITERATURE, philosophy of language LITERATURE, genetics literature, psychology literature, psychiatry literature, sociology literature and more, not a 'biology book' whatever that means.
Edit: biology LITERATURE too
@TheWhiteWhale i am making the argument that the issue is much more broad and complex than the guy suggests.
Brock Meeks Why do there appear to be so many people like you nowadays that can’t seem to be able to deal with someone probing the logic of your intellectual hero. What makes this interviewer ‘want to be the smartest guy in the room’ just because he challenges the interviewee on their logic?
His ‘proof...non-binaries’ statement firstly says: “give me some of the facts to back up your opinion”, an honest challenge to an interviewee who (rightly) states that all the LGBTQRSUVWXYZ fanatics need to come up with some more solid evidence of their opinions before going as drastic as operating on children etc.
Secondly, that statement builds up to a challenge of Murray’s earlier argumentation against the extinction rebellion protesters. All this interviewer
does is calmly probe Murray’s logic (which he appears to agree with most of the time, although he’s very professional in keeping his own opinion out of it) and pointing out where Murray may be taking some short-cuts that lead him to set a bit of a double standard (in limited occasions)
@@milton7763 You're overstating the reaction to what has happened here. I can do the same: "Why do there appear to be so many people like you nowadays that seem to project their own insecurities, emotional attachment and sometimes anger unto the person on the other side of the argument- and in the process not making one themselves?"
Great interview! Thanks!
This was a beautiful discussion. More debates should be like this!
I am impressed that the interviewer listened to his guest and challenged him on what he said rather then ignoring his answer saying "right" and then jumping to the next question on his script.
Very good interview. That is the best questioning of Douglas Murry I have seen. Questions were very insightful especially the follow up questioning and made Murry work harder than I have ever seen. As always Murry was spot on with his answers but it was nice to see him have to work for it.
@Anti Cucho From what I remember when he did do that, the interviewer called him on it which is why i felt it was such a good interview. Murry had to work at giving his explanation for that exact reason. At the end of the day though there will be at least two sides to an argument and Murry is happy to defend his stance and the other supports cancel culture.
@Anti Cucho You seem reasonable lol
Alex let him off easy.
Douglas Murray is my favourite intellectual to listen to. I resonate with most of what he says, not just because it’s based around common sense but because he is learned in the subjects he discusses and makes you think. This interviewer is good and you can tell Douglas is enjoying the interaction. I listened to a debate Douglas had to arrive on screen because of covid - it was held in Amsterdam. His opponent in the debate was flavier from Switzerland who was muddled in liberalism, she proudly gave a 30 minutes list of what she wants and insulted Douglas openly, and when he asked her questions she couldn’t answer him. It was definitely a debate far beneath an intellectual mind like Douglas’s.
I feel the same way. Douglas was amazing here but he had to struggle, rethink and question his own views
I love how Douglas Murray can be so inflamatory and lets Say politically incorrect, and at the same time be so collected and calm and remain unapologetic
Such a delightful interview
He's a very traditional Englishman.
Take it from an actual Brit: no he's not. His accent, manners, class and privilege are not typical of your average Englishman's. He's an Eton-educated, pantomime toff who fetishes illiberal right wing populist regimes like Orban's and provides cover for climate deniers (I say this as someone who agrees with him on lots of issues - immigration, the trans stuff, the woke stuff). He is a reactionary masquerading as a conservative, the right wing mirror image of the far-left woke types he despises - just as blinkered, just as prejudiced. @@misanthrophex
@@pn2124 Born in London and went to Eton. He's definitely English
I don't love how he can be so unapologetic. He's voicing opinions, some of them derogatory and harmful, as if they are correct just because they're his.
@@Spiritof_76Don't feed this troll, future people
Never seen Douglas challenged so respectfully before. Great questions and he gives good answers
I agree.
This is what happens when respectful people interact with each other trying to think about how to act in the world. Brilliant conversation.
This dude O'Conner is somebody to watch as he rises.
This is the best conversation I've listened to in a long long time. I loved the level of challenge and how clarity was sought.
What a stimulating session that flew by because it was so riveting. It's something to brag about that you can challenge Douglas Murray! Thank you so much, Alex.
Any expert in debate could challenge Douglas Murray. Look at who he debates. It's never anyone who can in any way challenge him. He will not debate Finkelstein for example.
@@aidanchapman8548you’re kidding? Fink can’t hold up against Dershowitz. He’s a useful idiot for Sheik Nabil Kaouk and his other Hezbollah backers. He should just go back to Lebanon and live with them permanently
I love that Alex finds points to agree on, as well as to challenge. It's great to see that we're not just accelerating away from each other
Could you do a podcast with a leftist? I.e Jason Hickel or Ash Sarkar? Would be interesting to see your perspectives on left-wing politics.
I think this fanbase leans kinda right and he's def worried about pissing them off
@@gekkobear1650 I get that. Would just be interesting to see how Alex would respond to a capable sociologist for example, as Douglas says here that our society is not racist/sexist etc. However, this is completely overlooking the work of Kehinde Andrews/Akala/Paul Gilroy etc. But, if Alex is as interested in the truth as he says he is, then surely that would surpass the wants of some right wingers...
Hahah you can't be taken serious when you mention Ash. A far left self professed communist. Would you give the same time and ground to a far right?
You also mention akala.....again....can't be taken serious.
@@gekkobear1650 Isn't Alex a leftist?
@@jacksonbrown4112
So you don't believe in free examination of ideas. Quite sad really.
This was honestly one of the most thought provoking conversation around these subjects. It is my first time listening to the podcast. I really appreciated the way Alex responded to many of the statements offering an alternative point of view and the way you can look at these issues, which at the moment both sides seem incapable of doing. Really enjoyed the talk Alex and ill be sure to listen to more talks, thanks.
@@asimhussain8716 I guess some people are just born offended
@@asimhussain8716 I am so sick and tired of seeing comments like this. I 100% agree, it really annoys me. Theres heaps of videos of people like Matt Walsh or Jordan Peterson talking to someone like Joe Rogan (2 quick examples i came up with on the top of my head) where they say some of the most stupid, uncontested bs ever. But since their followers cant even disagree with anything they say they just end up spouting this nonsense that theyre glad people can talk about this openly. Like ffs. People watch these videos and dont learn anything new or bother trying to.
I don’t find this intellectually honest at all. Funny. He seems to have a clear agenda and has it wrapped up in a very pseudo-intellectual oratory style. It really screams of an imposter, without knowing much about the guy.
Take the Rosa Parks example. It’s just an insane view of history. His questions themselves show a complete lack of cultural understanding.
Stop projecting. @@Hexadeci
As a Grandmother of 75 with a 30 year old Grandson who is travelling down the LBGTQ+++ road, I found this discussion incredibly informative. I consider myself pretty liberal having participated in women’s & gay rights and anti-apartheid movements during the 60s, 70s and 80s in New Zealand. Now I find myself at odds with my Grandsons rhetoric on this ‘new wave’. I found your points of discussion logical, fascinating and (surprisingly) calming. Thank You.
Perhaps you might agree as I did with Douglas at 16:14 that there was a time when gay people had achieved acceptance and lived quiet lives meeting with people in their own world. I am an old geezer in my 70s and I remember during the 1970s and 1980s there were many clubs etc. where straight and gay rubbed shoulders and that was OK. I cannot comprehend this LGBT++++ view.
It is maybe not your turn to understand it. Maybe you should just accept it. What do you have to lose, except asking for someone's pronouns?
@@4984christianit is problematic! Because those pronouns don't make any sense. Just accept it means just be stupid.
@4984christian what do you have to lose? The truth.
I'd say listen to your grandson instead of people in a comment section.
I've got to hand it to you, your steel man devil's advocacy game is on point. I've seen tons of interviews with Douglas Murray and the rest of the IDW crowd. It's very rare that they seriously grill each other though. You really kept him on his toes. I really wasn't expecting this to be as challenging as it was, not just for Douglas, but for me too.
@53:27 - This bit made me smile. A bit of old skool athiest logic thrown in for good measure.
tbh, I thought some of the questions were kind of petty and a waste of time really. for example, "what is it that makes it a thing that exists within a culture (about racism, sexism etc.) rather than a cultural phenomena?" obviously A LOT! scale/proportion is the obvious answer here.
"if you think that it's false then you have your own proving to do"
Time for Alex to prove that God doesn't exist.
Also, I agree with L M.
Alex presented himself as either ignorant or purposely obtuse. There is no other way around it.
*your
Xxx
I never thought I would see a smart leftist try to have a conversation again with someone on the right and I enjoyed it. The left is currently going throught kind of what the right went through around 2003. Paranoid war mongering, trying to silence opponents because of the insecure opinions they have.
Lomax did he tho...?
I think this is an amazing interview. Regardless of my disagreements (which I admit are quite strong), with Murray, I think that it's valuable to talk about things
@@jamesedwards366 well, I'd rather get too much into it on tur internet, it's hard to have a good conversation with someone in this venue. But I'm a gross socialist liberal, so I'm pretty partial to intersectionality, I'm not convinced that trans rights infringes on gay rights, and a few other things. But like I said, I'd rather not discuss it much through UA-cam comments. Anyways, hopes this gives ya a good idea of what I think.
@@jamesedwards366 I think I understand what you are saying, but if my response seems strange, please clarify. It's my personal belief that we should not try to convince children of any pre-conceived gender roles or constructs. I have no problem with educating them on what sexes are, and if people want to raise their children as "boys and girls", then I can't really tell you not to, it's their child. However, as I said, I would not do that with my own child. I am still undecided on weather I would use traditional pronouns for my child. There are pros and cons each way. If a child shows to be what I consider "feminine" behavioral traits, I would probably not do much of anything. I am not in a place to decided what it means to be "feminine", so, just because I think it, doesn't mean I should tell a child they should or shouldn't be a certain way because of that. I am currently against using hormones on children though. Does any of that answer your question?
Thats his whole point. Talking about issues yes, always good. Having same issues defining an entire generation and filling almost all talk space up, is not.
@@jamesedwards366 Nice rant. Pretty ironic for you to spend so much time obsessing over degenerate genes while full throating social darwinist lunacy.
My god! I remember when CosmicSkeptic was cheering on 50k subscribers and now he has Douglas Murray on!
What a perfect demonstration of asking questions longer than answers. 😅😅 great chat!
Douglas has taken on a war footing, aesthetically speaking.
Thanks for this installment of the podcast. It's very interesting to hear extended conversations with people who have views that conflict with your own. I don't understand why this style of friendly debate and exploration of ideas isn't accepted by everybody.
That's THE question and I think there are many reasons.
As for "accepted by everybody", it'll be a miracle if it's even accepted by the majority.
Because thanks to stupid Social Justice Warriors, everyone is extremely polarized to the Right or the Left and therefore, we are living in a time when this polarization of the political spectrum has played a huge part in dividing the population instead of encouraging both left-wingers and right-wingers to have a civil and culturally rich discussion. You'd better enjoy this interview because at this rate, interviews like this one might be less and less frequent due to social media, news and entertainment becoming too far-left for even moderate leftist people to handle the situation
Because when the person you are debating is someone you disagree with AND is also a colossal douche, it becomes hard....
Best interview i've seen in a long, long time.
Douglas is right about the obsession about accounting for every wrong in history
I certainly don't see a problem with cataloguing them.
@@Olyfrun I agree with you. Do you think maybe its just the idea of categorising them as "wrong" in advance? Anyway as you allude to, if you don't examine the most problematic issues, how are we ever going to learn from history? Which seems to be every historians fav refrain.
2/3rds of the way through and I'm thoroughly enjoying this. Well done Alex, playing devils advocate, presenting the nuance of the counter arguments and asking for clarification. It makes for an infinitely more enjoyable and complex conversation. I don't know if I've seen a better interview of Douglas.
Douglas needs to reanalyze his stance because the moment alex counters him, he would go into a thought like a dyslexic child who cannot understand the book. I've seen jordan peterson also going into such a trance when countered with questions about income inequality and capitalism. They just sit confused and are like, "yeah...what are we gonna do, huh...".
@@ss_avsmtyes. Attack a gay man. Because you have no rebuttal and prove you're a petulant unintelligent child over and over and over before you end your comment that did nothing bit prove you have no argument
@@ss_avsmt strange, I feel like what I just read was written by a dyslexic child. What exactly do you propose to the problem that everyone doesn't have the exact same amount of everything? Tell us... When Douglas reanalyzes his stance, where are you hoping he lands? What ARE we going to do indeed?
@@ss_avsmtcope
Wow, I've listened to about four different interviews with Murray, but this one is the best one. Alex asks the correct questions the right way. Tough, tough interviewer without being antagonistic. He's just getting right down to the meat and potatoes.
Thank god there’s sane rational young minds around
Unfortunately there are just too few of them to reason with the others.
@@kieranjames8020 one could and should make that argument for folk regardless of age.
Calling somebody advocating for universal veganism based on subjective morality "rational" is kind of ironic.
Ah so if he doesn't agree with ALL rightwing opinions (which I don't think he does) then he isn't worthy anymore?
No one owes apology or reparations for something they didn’t personally do. If there was oppression from your ancestors onto others, that wasn’t you, so you don’t owe anything for it.
This was very good interview. Cogent, intelligent and fair questions. You allowed him adequate time to answer questions with a minimal interruption. Thoroughly enjoyable.
Well HELLO we thought you were DEAD
*Douglas looks fresh with a beard btw
gay
And that shirt sets his nipples off very well. No man boobs here. No im not a gay
No no you are all wrong. Its the beard around the nipples that are grrrrr. Also Im not gay.
Christ, what's up with all this "I'm not gay" shit? Any reasonable person knows you can acknowledge someone of the same sex is attractive without wanting to fuck them. Stuff like this actually makes me slightly dubious of how much progress has been made in the progression of sexual dialogue.
@@harryradley Chill out. Ever considered it's part of the joke? As in the added benefit of someone saying it who isn't sexually interested in the person, enhances the compliment as it now supposedly isn't mere flattery but a statement of fact. As such it adds comic release after an otherwise creepy comment --> it's a joke, stop projecting.
I've been hypnotized by the wallpaper.
Great chat.
I get the 3D cubes, but I'm puzzled by all the diagonal lines...
I've seen so so many people comment on this. I finally have to admit - I didnt even notice it. Now I have to go back and check it out
Alex O'Connor is quick on his feet. This guy asks the right questions right away and goes very much into detail. Love it!
Peter Hitchens doesn't! Hahaha
"It will always be someone else's fault."
Never anyone else fault, we don't actually find fault lines in the arguments put forth because they get distorted and redirected and obfuscated.So, even if they wrest gracious enough to say, let's call it all off, it's worth asking why someone who is NOT transexual would be willing to endure that kind of torment.
MichaelKingsfordGray the radical left will be on the wrong side of history, for their grotesque defence of Islam and sharia law - which literally sees women put on death row in Pakistan for blasphemy and gay people tortured in Chechnya.
@@JonJon-rz5el tHe RaDiCaL lEfT... don’t you think it’s rather all Western societies, regardless of their governments, who avoid to sanction these theocratic dictatorships, because they have to kiss their asses in order to be able to continue to pillage the said dictatorships of their primary resources?
Exactly, EA. And "the left" arent on the side of the Islamists. Some maybe but not the majority. But yeah, the status quo, America TM, has always backed the Islamists. Saudi Arabia are among the worst and we kiss their asses like nobodys business. So, we only vilify the ones we dont need, that's how history will be written
@@EA-js1me I totally agree with you on the western point. Still he's right, the radical left or some groups of the left are in a severe cognitive dissonance (like my sister who's muslim but with a lifestyle that would put her on a death row in some radical muslim country) Most of the time on the basis of a supposed islamophobia.
Here's an exemple:ua-cam.com/video/INZfPHFzFAI/v-deo.html
As I've been with Alex since a very early point in this youtube adventure, I am utterly fascinated by (and voraciously curious about) the process of getting high-profile voices such as Murray and Dawkins on his podcast. I smile with pride at his growing success and near-limitless potential going forward.
Degrees from oxford open a lot of doors. Hes actually deserving though, imo. He'll really go far. His ability to self reflect and critique his own views really puts him ahead of all these old reactionary types. According to Murray progressives are always wrong and destructive. Alex clearly sees the value in progressive reforms
I'm hopeful that young O'Connor here will end up as a professional moderator or some similar position. Fantastic interviewer, excellent even temper.
He's so fucking talented. I love how he clearly disagrees with Murray in order to get him to elucidate on his points.
Alex, I don't know if you've a warped 'modern' logic, or if you are just a contrarian. Douglas took it easy on you. The premise that 'You punched me in the face, so now I get to punch you equally' does not hold for the race thing in America. The wronged people, as the people who committed the wrong, are all long dead. How far back do you want to go? Do we as indigenous Britons claim reparations from Italy, Denmark Sweden and Norway for being conquered and enslaved? The blacks descended from former slaves should really be pursuing the tribal leaders of the black tribes in Africa who were the ones who captured them and sold them into slavery.
Cosmic had Murray on the ropes a couple of times and vice versa. I found it very informative and I learnt a lot from this discussion. Thank you.
I'm about halfway through the debate (interview). This is the first video I've seen from this channel and I have to say, I'm impressed by the interviewer. Played devil's advocate quite well.
Douglas was on top of his game during this interview.
If that was the top of his game, those who disagree with him will have sn easy time of it.
@@ritawing1064 Yawn ....
@@perrywidhalm114 Right? Rita, why don't you say something about the discussion hahaha
He didn't need to be at the top of his game.
This is the first time I've heard him speak, and his reasoning seems extremely sloppy and unconvincing
I thoroughly enjoyed this whole podcast. Grace and respect on both sides.
I feel this interview really got Douglas thinking. Great to watch!
shoutout to the interviewer. i really like the way he frames the questions and subsequent follow up questions. one of the best,concise and nuanced interviews ive seen been orchestrated in a while.
It made a change to have an interviewer that thoughtfully challenged Murray’s assertions. I think that kid will go far … whoever he is.
Alex is his name. Not too long ago he had only 10k sub's...now he's pushing 300k. Won't be long before he hits mainstream media and have a TV show.
This is a great discussion. You have good interview skills, Alex, and I truly enjoy Douglas Murray.
Thank you so much for this. This is my introduction to your channel, and I'm so glad I've found it. Subscribed.
That was refreshingly civil, and therefore productive.
Meh. Murray’s opponent was merely a contrarian.
He was handled easily.
Philosophers are the fat left over from real life. They appear clever, but offer nothing to the real world. They can’t do anything other than talk. Talk achieves nothing.
Roo Roo Talk achieves nothing? Philosophers can change the worldview of entire cultures, and actions follow from thoughts.
@@rooroo8767 he said in the youtube comment section, trying to change somebody's mind.
Artificial Sweetener fair enough
Nicholas Gulyas who?
Wow very strong interviewer. Constantly pushes without becoming aggressive. I'm a Douglas Murray fan and I've never seen him pushed this hard. I'll have to watch more!
I HIGHLY reccomend this entire person's channel
@@charlesparsons5171 I recommend it HIGHER.
It is very comforting to read the comments and see some viewers in depth understanding regarding the complexity of both views. Personally i love to watch both intellectuals, and perhaps not always fully understand the complexity of their respective views.
Dang you're good at interviewing. Really solid job. 10/10 You've gained my subscription.
im here for the wallpaper
Man you're getting some serious super guests this is amazing!!
Excellent interview. A great example of how people who educate themselves on a subject and can still show respect for one another even with different points of view. A good interview such as this provoke thinking. Very refreshing Thank you.
45:27 I think it was right to challenge Murray on this because it is quite a weasely tactic, an example I find useful is age of consent laws. Just because drawing a line is tricky doesn't mean we abandon the whole project.
it does when the cons far outweigh any pro.
Nah, rape is clearly defined as the need of consensual penetration, other wise it’s assault, and assault requires physical touch. These are all extremely cut and dry where they lay and where they start. I understand what he was saying, drawing lines is difficult but it’s got to be done (like arbitrary cash values for income tax brackets) but I don’t think this example was substantial.
Most interviews I’ve seen just appear to give Douglas Murray a sympathetic platform unchallenged, A pleasant change to see him have to defend his views
Alex is amazing but I feel he held back too much
Alex is amazing but I feel he held back too much
Good conversation. This upvote for Douglas Murray.
Great interview. Thanks