Destiny Talks About (Non-Binary, Trans People, Neopronouns)
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- Опубліковано 29 бер 2022
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►Date: 28 Mar, 2022
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Vaush: "Did any one else audiologically ascertain the assertion from Destiny that individuals existing external to the bimodal distribution of gender are either invalid, facetious or dishonest? I certainly didn't, but I'm going to condemn him for his spite irregardlessly."
🤣 damn
🤣 damn
legendary
Trueeeee
How ubiquitous of you vaush
This is totally my sister. One day she's bi. Then says they're non binary, while keeping she/her pronouns and has extremely feminine presentation. Then she comes out as lesbian (while still being non being non binary?). Then like a month later gets into a long term relationship with a guy.
Such a focus on identity seems so pointless to me. Just wear what you want and fuck who you want, and don't judge others for doing so.
Dang, which Star Wars does this happen in??
@@mrpunk327 Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker
I think people like this delegitimize and caricaturize people with genuine gender dysphoria more than people who point out the dubiousness of confused young people switching genders like clothes and wearing them as accessories. It’s become a fad.
BUT MEH GENDER FLUIDITY!
I think people get so deep into identities that they forget that one's identity is a reflection of how they act and not the other way around.
@@-47- Gigachad take, btw.
I know we’re talking about gender identity but the fact that Destiny never uses the bloodhound fang’s weapon art is driving me crazy! It’s by far the best aspect of that sword. That is all.
About the "third gender" thing: those are categories imposed based on sex (usually on homosexual men), as in, nothing like western nonbinary identities which are self-chosen. It's basically saying "you don't get to be a man/woman because you do x, y or z".
Also the point about "a lot of people just don't think about gender", yes, it's true, because "gender identity" is a nebulous concept. Most people just exist in their bodies and aren't acutely aware that their actions are "gendered", like, women don't put on makeup thinking "heehee I'm doing a woman thing" or men don't chop wood thinking "ah yes, i am being a man right now", choosing over the top examples for emphasis. This weird train of thought has emerged from the online trans community claiming that NO cis people "ponder their gender" even though people DO think about their role in society and how they navigate the world as a man/woman but most people don't hinge their identity or reality upon those acts.
Being a cis man and not being acutely aware about your "manhood" or how you perform "as a man" doesn't make you nonbinary, it makes you a regular human being. Same for women.
Destiny IS right that to a lot of people, especially young, terminally online people, non binary is a way to not be a "boring straight person" and get some social leverage and clout. You can put they/them in your twitter bio and now you are as much as a "trans person" and can "speak on trans issues" as, let's say, Contrapoints. But obviously pointing this out makes you a transphobe, because, again, there are no real rules for who is or isn't trans or who gets to speak on trans issues. That's the problem with loose online communities.
Yup, that's why even though I consider myself non-binary I literally never talk about it, I don't put Pronouns in my bio or constantly correct people. I just live my life, and when people wonder why I'm wearing makeup and earrings I just tell them it's what I like to do lmao.
Actually it's really frustrating as someone who's ACTUALLY non-binary, seeing the behavior of people who claim to be non-binary. After I came out to my friends everyone suddenly started claiming non-binary identities as well even though their has never been any indication of that, as if they wanted to be cool and different too.
90% of the people online who claim to be NB and 99% of the people with labels in their bio are 100% faking it. Sorry not sorry. Actually you can tell the people who are faking it really easy, it's always the ones who talk about it all the time and make it a huge part of their identity, they are just craaaaaving attention.
@@yoboi267 so you're a man with certain preferences. NB is total nonsense. You people are trying to make personality into gender.
@@drmobius2343 incorrect. My internal experience does not exactly align 100% with a man, I have experienced mild gender dysphoria and have considered taking hrt before. Also, is gender not connected to personality in any way?
@@yoboi267 that's entirely meaningless. There is no objective experience as a man. As you people use it, gender is basically your personality. Gender is a set of stereotypes applied to the sexes. By choosing one set of stereotypes over the other, you can change gender.
To the vast majority of the world, gender and sex are interchangeable. Your gender is your sex. Anything else is an individual choice.
@@drmobius2343 yeah I mean you just said it yourself, by choosing one set of stereotypes over another you can change gender. That's exactly how gender identity works. Also, when was personality and gender ever not related?
holy shit how long has Destiny actually tried to kill that invader?
Wonder if he knew that you need to kill all 3 in one life
Lmao
There are 3 in a row. Its NPC and they are random and also scale a shit tunn. So its hard. Unless you 160 level. They are around 120 I bealive.
It’s interesting that this take is fairly similar to Blaire White’s position regarding to non-binary people. She’s argued that non-binary people and binary trans people have conflicting goals because the former have an ambiguous gender identity and want people to ask about their pronouns while the latter would like to seamlessly pass through society.
I think "non-binary" is just gender nonconformity pretending to be something more. Unless someone wants a specifically intersex body, there isn't any non-binary thing to transition to.
Yeah and as a non-binary (maybe trans man) person I hate that people get crucified for pointing this out. I think it’s also bad how you can’t say “there is a difference between someone who faces unbearable dysphoria who needs to transition and someone who simply does not face dysphoria and does not have major contention with their birth gender.”
Because if you even acknowledge these things people jump to the “you are invalidating my experiences”
@@Hayden_Cat I appreciate your objectivity greatly. You’re a very important voice. Hope this doesn’t come across patronizing or condescending btw
@@Hayden_Cat Yeah, I don't really understand how they can be trans if there's no sex associated with being non-binary.
yeah both of those takes suck
trans and nb identities need to be treated as far more separate than they are imo. trans simultaneously became an umbrella term but also a specific term for people who physically and socially transition and that makes zero sense to me. im not sure what im supposed to call myself in these circles when all the nb "trans" people who claim trans identity have literally nothing in common with me in terms of their actual experiences and what actual changes they've gone through. being just a regular binary trans person is such a weird place to be in these online circles.
Trans is the umbrella term. The catch all for not cis. You gotta share the space with nb people. Like, I get it. I'm trans binary too. NB people will have a different experience than you and that's okay. You can just be trans and nothing will change.
@@rxxs2918 i guess maybe its my age showing because i always remember like 5 years ago, you say i'm trans, that means something pretty specific, whereas now (online, irl most people would still assume that means mtf or ftm) that could mean any number of things that in some cases have basically nothing to do with each other. i respect nb identities but "not cis" just seems such a wide net that the term starts to lose meaning and anyone can just claim that identity and any questioning of this is automatically transphobic even when you have to assume not everyone claiming identity is doing so genuinely. it makes more sense for me that NB should kind of be its own thing whilst acknowledging crossover. and i mean it's not like most of this matters in the grand scale of things or that it affects me personally other than watching moron youtubers doing terrible advocacy for people whose experience they will never have but who can't be questioned because they invoked nb identity (sinthe, mr beard for 2 recent examples), it's just a thing i find myself at odds with. maybe i'll collect my thoughts better on this sometime idk.
Is it tho ? i know people who are non binary because they stopped their transition when they were comfortable with their bodies....
and sometimes that process end in the middle of man and woman
also i'm pretty sure most people know non binary is not the same as trans
@@typhoidmary2967 I feel the same. I have to be around a lot of people that are non binary at work. And it's actually extremely isolating and makes me dysphoric.
I get a feeling that to the non binary people I know, they actually don't think of me as a woman. They just think of me as "trans". While I never have that problem with cis people.
It's people who say they are non binary, then do absolutely nothing to transition. These people I feel are saying "oh I'm actually trans too. So my experience is just as valid as yours and I don't have to listen to you". It comes off as really disrespectful to me. And if these people are trans I would think they would understand how hard it is to be trans. But I don't get that at all from them.
I want to rewitness the reincarnation of Nebraska Steeve. May Florida Steeve RISE!.
I hated how much filtering he had to do on twitch...
But, I've always been a UA-cam frog, so this is great for us. Anyway, I am so glad Destiny has more freedom speaking, even if it means he can't stream on twitch.
Can he still collab with twitch streamers? I'd still like to see him interact with some of them. Other than that, f twitch. He has his own chat anyways and he can talk honestly on yt.
@@SeyidAr no bc dylan even mention they couldn't play a clip of destiny durring the panel about him. They might be able only in situations when they aren't live on twitch.
@@SeyidAr if you stream with banned people you can get banned as well, so nein
@@coolroxas That sucks. Big time.
14:40 No. No one talks about drag queens as a whole like that at all. Drag is now more diverse (cis women do it, straight men, trans women, etc) but the basic term of drag queen hasn’t went anywhere.
Source: Rupaul Drag Race seasons 1 thru 5876
Often the person will explain that they don't fit society's ideas of gender which makes them neither gender. But isn't that kind of the same thing for tomboys or men that are kind of feminine? They still consider themselves cis, but just acknowledge they aren't the cliche man or woman. I've always felt comfortable identifying as a straight woman even though I like computers, video games(which to some people are considered boy stuff). It seems like the problem is the notion of: "you can't be a girl and like -insert stereotypical boy interest/thing-". I very much like a lot of stereotypical girl stuff, but just because I dislike some feminine things doesn't make me not a woman or less of one.
Non binary could include some gender dysphoria so it's not quite the same as tomboys.
Gender theorists have such a narrow image of men and women that any deviation must be trans-non-binary.
It's ok to be a masculine woman or a feminine man.
I had thought I'm a tomboy for 2.5 decades and had the same opinion as you. But I came to understand the meaning in "gender is a social construct" statement when I experienced for the Xth time of a person trying to categorize people into just 2 genders and me not fitting into either of them, even with a looser definition of what makes a "woman" which was inclusive of tomboys. I just can't fit into the "woman" part implied in "tomboy". I find that I'm just a middle ground, an androgynous third party that's invisible when people talk about men & women.
Most people may not realize it, but when you gender someone (ie. categorize someone into a box, in general) it gives a biased sexist filter over the person's individuality. If you're already sexist, you wouldn't feel a problem when people gender you binarily because you already agree with the assumed definitions, even if you're somewhat different from it. But it becomes an odd experience when you aren't gendered-minded - when you don't see your hobbies, interests and personality aspects as part of any gender and you feel you're just being you; yet here comes someone trying to categorize you into 2 boxes that you hardly fit in because there's a bunch of implications you don't agree with in both of them.
It basically feels like when someone ask me if I'm a lefty or righty. Some people may be strongly progressive with a couple conservative values and vice versa, but I'm a centrist who can have both progressive & conservative stances and I'm not particularly attached to either sides. It isn't as weird to people for someone to be a centrist in politics cuz it's about opinions, meanwhile it's still a new idea that's yet to be understood when it comes to being a centrist in one's personal experience in relation to society's labels.
It's only in private circles where the definition of "man" and "woman" are much much more loose than what society has right now that I become comfortable being called a girl. Circles where I can be acknowledged as me, instead of getting aspects of me all gendered. Where gender identity is essentially equal to biological sex and no more. Because I do in fact view myself as "a girl", but only in the sense that "my body is female".
That's why I think gender really is a social construct. It's the majority tacitly agreeing on the definitions of "man" and "woman" without including those who are EVEN LESS gendered-minded than they are, so we don't fit in either of the two labels that people are boxing themselves into.
@@jjQlLlLqGender is merely a reflection of sex and sex characteristics. You’re just overthinking things and confusing yourself like many others.
@@Keurgui1 So if you're around the center or the opposite of your supposed sex & sex characteristics, what are you?
nonbinary is fashion. I've said it before I'll never stop saying it. it's the new metrosexual. after all, in order for nonbinary to be a thing they literally have to argue that gender is entirely socially constructed and therefore nonbinary as a role is PURELY a social performance. in other words it's indistinguishable from being a goth or being a punk rocker. It's an aesthetic. and so just like every cringey fashion trend, it deserves no special protection from mockery. if I can make fun of goths for being ridiculous I can make fun of people that think they are nonbinary because they are a guy that sometimes feels like baking. (because it's always based in some stupid misconception of gender as being defined by stereotypes, as if there is nothing else to it)
I understand where you're coming from, but be careful with essentializing. It *seems* to be that there are nbs who report gender dysphoria (outside of Twitter), but there's not enough research for a definitive "it is" or "it isn't," so context and patterns of behavior should guide things rather than blanket assumptions.
Interesting take. Anybody can say they have gender dysphoria. Id like to get drinks for free and have orgasms where my legs shake. Am i nb?
I used to have difficulty seeing in what way non-binary identities were different from personalities. Then I realized that I was probably mtf trans, and that confusion disappeared, because my realization had nothing to do with personality, it wasn't that I liked some things that happened to be "feminine" or that I acted in ways that are considered "feminine" and therefore must be a woman. Rather I enjoyed some stuff *because* of their perceived femininity, if I saw myself in a way that I could perceive as a woman it felt good. These feelings could be true regardless of my personality, and then it seemed entirely plausible that others could have similar feelings to something other than either of the binary genders, and it would have nothing to do with personality.
But a lot of what it means to be male or female is also just aesthetic. Binary ppl are born into an aesthetic, whilst nbs have to create their own
@@jbark678 No. I won't be careful with "essentializing". There is no such thing as nonbinary. it is fashion. Define nonbinary. Go ahead, try it. Try defining it without describing an aesthetic or a behavior as part of that definition. Try defining it without saying what it's not and instead saying what it IS. I'll do that for you. It's a social identity born in the 2010s that is the newest counter-cultural identity that is the newest way for teens and late -blooming adults to rebel against social norms and act like they are special for it.
"nb is a way for boring white people to get clout" lmao yes exactly how i feel
there are nbs that don’t have a social presence. Most people with gender/ sexuality labels just want to be understood and not be bothered, so I don’t know what you’re talking about
transmedicalist
@@MenchieExtrakt I understand. They've got a busted view of biology
THANK YOU SOOO MUCH DEZTINY PLEASE SPEAK MORE ON THIS US TRANSSEXUALS ARE BEING DROWNED OUT WITH CONVOLUTED MESSAGING AND DECORATE NARCISSISTIC PPL USING SELF ID AS A SOCIAL MEDIA PERSONA INFLYENCING LEGISLATION
My 2 pennies…
Most non-binary people I know do change their presentation to act more androgynous, and don’t try to take on the trans victim status. It seems like a much less radical way of disidentifying with ones assigned gender at birth.
Destiny’s take is probably more about terminally online NB people though
True
Sounds like a fancy way of saying Body Disphoric
@@MuchCow9000Not really.
Choosing an androgynous style and not identifying with certain gendered characteristics is not the same as hating /wanting to get rid of those characteristics. The same way that a girl who wears a baggy sweater might still love her boobs, but just isn’t wearing clothing that emphasizes their presence.
@@shane8143 I agree.
How is androgynous a gender.
Yeah, im a cis guy, who grew up never being bullied for my gender or birth sex identity, and it would feel kinda gross to just suddenly say I was non-binary for debate points online when Ive been factually dishonest or intellectually out maneuvered.
Yeah but people do that shit all the time, the just swap in and out different labels for debate points online.
@@WhoAmI-kb4vf yeah, then the least you could do is to not pretend to advocate for those groups you commodify for your online brand.
@@xDDufiosy exactly it’s kinda gross, it takes away the progress on the actual issues.
No you don't understand, people would never be dishonest on the internet for clout.
My first serious gf had just broken up with somebody who pretended to have cancer for several years when I met her.
Some non binary folks, when explaining what it means, are just people who have both masculine and feminine energy. Sometimes they dress more feminine sometimes the opposite depending on how they feel. Which is kinda how most people are. Most people are not exclusively feminine, constantly wearing makeup and dressing up, same with masculine traits. I don't always dress feminine, but how I express myself with fashion and makeup doesn't mean I'm neither gender or both genders. Many non binary folks when explaining I just think "well most ppl are like that" we just don't necessarily think about it. Maybe I just don't get it tho. Trans people to me are people that are in the binary. They want to get from point A to point B, or vice versa. As in, they're TRANSITIONING from one into the other. Non binary would be the opposite of that cause it is outside of binary. Idk.
I sometimes think this way about xenogenders tbh
Like this stuff isn't gender. Objects, animals, concepts, mythological entities, these aren't genders.
These are ideas you have personally tied to your identity and want to functionally have the same weight as traditionally accepted genders.
Like a social construct is something everyone has an understanding and the ability to recognize at a glance. I don't wanna have to tell someone my pronouns, that flies in the face of transitioning.
something that I heard that I think works pretty well in terms of xenogenders is that they should be treated like nicknames. Now, those that push it way beyond that and make it their entire identity I don't really have any history interacting with that, so not sure if the "nickname" concept works so well with that
I can’t imagine being a trans person that just wants to be left alone and then seeing these fucking loud obnoxious assholes on Twitter that are trying to identify as wolves and shit. People like that do more harm to the trans community than anyone else with the exception of people that literally want to kill trans folks
What do you feel all the other times?
I see xenos as valid-ish, personally. Like they’re valid ways of describing one’s gender, but not literal in the way that the “standard” gender spectrum is
@@MrCnovalink This reminds me, neopronouns, especially those that are basically nouns, are really just 3rd person nicknames that youre being forced to use because they co-opted trans rhetoric and claim not using them is misgendering. Because according to them those are pronouns.
But when the pro-neopronoun people give example sentence half the time they end up like this: "Bun went to her favorite store and bought bunself something fancy."
They slip up themselves. Constantly. Because the brain just sees a word that only refers to specifically one person and reasons automatically that it must be a name and will replace it with a pronoun whenever feasible.
When a straight white guy named mr beard is nonbinary, we’re definitely dealing with a guy collecting identity labels like Pokémon cards.
he's poly and doesn't have a beard. (His last name is Beard.)
@@thesovgc
Who gives a shit?
You should see twitter girls with their xeno “genders”
@@Hayden_Cat twitter faes*
Sounds jut like him.
Bold take on non binary. Even though I dont know whether or not i agree. I appreciate the honesty. We cant just parot the socially expected ideas on any given topic. Good to hear a nuanced perspective for once
How is it bold? Maybe if your talking to trans Hardliners, but generally Non-Binary can be a real thing people use to treat dysphoria its just that 99% of people who say their Non-Binary are doing it entirely on social reasons ie wanting to stand out, social contagion
I mean it’s bold that NBs try to claim to be lgbt after killing trans and gay people.
Dumping on non-binary people isn’t bold or unique. I deal with it every single day and it’s boring.
@@BlackSheepNara saying most are social contagion is dunking on them?
@@BlackSheepNara maybe you shouldn’t be part of a homophobic hate group then.
It seems to be the case that there are non-binary people like you describe. It also seems to be the case that there are non-binary people who experience clinical levels of dysphoria and take hrt or have surgery done, but continue to identify as non-binary.
The non-binary and gender fluid stuff always rubbed me the wrong way, because they get away from the physical dysmorphia that seemed to be more than just an atypical set of interests and presentation to your born gender. I can understand that if you're a woman who likes cars, sports, hardcore gaming, construction, etc. that didn't make you not a woman until you had dysmorphia that was tied to your body. The other two seem obsessed with the opposite, where suddenly someone's "gender fluid", but can only express it through painful stereotypical presentations and hobbies. Non-binary has the same problem, where they're so desperate to be "between" that they all look the same. "Here's my heavily visible makeup and clashing dyed unconventional hair cut, but also a visible stubble and mismatched outfit so you know I don't conform." I can't even speak to the hobbies or interests of the people that claim to be non-binary, because they so rarely have anything to talk about once you get past that.
*Dysphoria. I mostly agree, I've generally seen Non-binary and Genderfluid used as more of an aesthetic label, like more like Gender Expression than Identity. That said I've met a few people who have used Non-binary as a label and then go on to transition, so I think sometimes its used as a safety net for people who aren't confident in identifying as Trans or a still working their way up to it.
Nonbinary=Trans. Nonbinary people can have gender dysphoria.
Do you feel the same way about non-binary people who take hrt or undergo some surgery (breast reduction for example) due to dysphoria?
@@jbark678 No, though it begs the question of what that means for non-binary people. After all, most dysphoria treatments refer to using those processes to become the opposite gender, but if you're non binary then how would any aspect of your physicality cause dysphoria? It's not like having the opposite gender's genitals or chest would alleviate the dysphoria, and the reduction of masculine or feminine traits just causes the opposite gender's features to come out.
Do you have an example of someone who underwent "non binary transitioning" where we could get an interview or before/after photos to help indicate what that even means?
@@note4note804 Its very simple really. Usually trans people want to pass as one of the binary genders. That isnt a rule tho. Someone can have dysphoria and want to undergo surgery but still not identify with binary.
Being a "victim" makes you look like your doing more than your actually doing
Define "non-binary" and you'll end up with EVERYONE being "non-binary" because unless your dealing with fictional stereotypes, everyone has aspects that constitute "male" or "female" im different degrees
I like pink? am i "nOn-bInAry" now? Being "non-binary" is such a cop out. Especially cause i was bullied by gays, guys and girls when I was young too lmao
I had a convo with my brother about, you replace "gender" with "societal expectations" then it made sense.
Not to mention the fact that living in a 3rd world country many here can only see this "gender" struggle by Westerners are nothing but the musings of a pampered population that no longer face the traditional struggles of humans like hunger and poverty looking for their very own "WW2" in their sanitized arguably soft lives.
When you live better than 80% of Earth, problemless people start looking for problems.
Maybe to erase some sort of guilt(?) they feel if they even so much look beyond their own borders
Based take.
But you could meet societal expectations of one gender while still being a different one. A tomboy isn’t the same thing as a transman nor is an effimenant man the same thing as a trans woman. I don’t think most NB people identify as such just because they feel like the don’t fit neatly in to every stereotype or expectation of man or woman, I kind of don’t believe anyone does but that’s not what being NB actually means.
@@ataraxia7439 what does being non-binary mean then?
Because all I see are groups of overgrown children, propped up by the first world economies or middle class families they were born into.
Destiny finally talking about the Tomboy genocide!
Destiny should just stay off twitter, it’s in no way reality and seems to even rott his brain from time to time
Ikr
It's now reality with what legislators and congress are passing
@@fartexplosion4480 you mean anti trans bills?
I think Destiny needs to actually talk with non-binary people because there’s just a lotttt of straw men in this video. Yes there are some quote unquote “trans trenders” what are just doing it for clout, but a lot of non-binary people not only take hormones and are an active part of the trans community. Also when Destiny starts talking about how tomboys and drag aren’t really things anymore, my guy is wayyyy too online because he just doesn’t see that in his personal life ig and so he doesn’t think that’s a thing anymore? There’s plenty of Cis people who exhibit more social traits of the opposite sex. Idk if he’s just ignorant about sexuality or just transphobic towards non-binary people but for the tldr: non-binary people are in fact valid and aren’t “just faking it to get clout”
It does feel weird that people lump them together when non binary people want to be perceived, or not, as either gender and trans people specifically care about being perceived as one gender
Non-Binary is NOT being “trans”, because there’s no desire or thought or process of TRANSitioning…
There is. It's different for everyone. Why not go meet some non binary people and ask them this question?
Just a quick question, Arron. Are you really sharing your opinions about what it means to be trans while you think the "trans" in transgender comes from "tranzition?" Why do you have to play yourself so hard?
@@Ryuu44 tranzition is not a word though why would it come from that
trans means to identify with a gender that is not the one u were given at birth
You do know many enbies transition, right? They take cross-sex hormones to look androgynous (in some cases, while others take it to present more as the other gender). Also, transitioning isn't just medical or surgical. Some trans people, whether binary or not, are comfortable with just socially transitioning and don't need medical intervention. Others sometimes can't afford the medication. 'Trans' isn't the root word of 'transitioning'. 'Trannsgender' just means one has a gender identity that's incongruent with one's assigned gender at birth. Therefore NB's are also trans.
I heavily disagree with the NB takes Steven has here, and I do feel like Twitter is sort of rotting his brain in this aspect. Don't get me wrong, I agree with him about how people love to use LGBTQ as a personal shield and clout generator, but that shouldn't skew his positions on these issues.
referring
well whatever. i didnt want the rest of that comment published anyway, thanks youtube
What exactly do you disagree with? Just curious
@@Diabolical3010 Just the fact he doesn't think that non binary is a legitimate identity, and that it can't produce similar levels of dysphoria or discomfort as someone who is mtf or ftm. Like, most of the framing of nb issues in the clip were under the context of Twitter users. There exist "real" nb people who don't possess the aspects he describes. The framing he's giving make it seem like the attention seeking behavior is enough to discredit the identity. The only potentially valuable thing he said was that there isn't enough reaserch done on nb people, and if that's the case, I think more ought to be done to rectify this. All the rest of the stuff he is saying is valid criticism about Twitter users and how labels are used as a shield and poses a real threat to public perception of trans issues, but not valid criticism about the existence of nb and the validity of people who identify with it.
@@NoTwo yeah I really wish he hammered more on the no scientific evidence point. I'm skeptical of NB identities as well because of that. The Twitter stuff definitely happens, but it happens for binary trans people too.
I'm completely against neo pronouns/animal genders/object genders because those make no logical sense at all. Being NB could make sense on a logical level. For example you're AFAB and you really really hate your breasts and it makes you dysphoric, but you don't really want to change pronouns or your voice. Like a less extreme version of being trans basically.
@@NoTwo but yeah we need research on it cause otherwise it's just us making up stuff
Even binary trans stuff we barely understand.
Obamna
Drumpf
Obamna
McCoggnell
Cliton
Idk I’m intersex & tried living as a woman & a man, neither of those were right. Can’t help but feel like a lot of takes like these are coming as opposition to teenagers being teenagers lmao it’s a bit of a bummer. I’m not nb to ‘feel special’ I am biologically in between & happen to also feel that way
From an outside perspective, I find it sort of odd that intersex issues are included under the LGBT political umbrella. It seems like changes society would need to make to accommodate intersex people diverge from those for non-intersex LGBT people. Do you feel strongly identified with LGBT culture?
@@11zoomzoom11 can’t speak for everyone but me being intersex happens to go hand in hand with being nb.
It feels weird that we have these kinds of groupings, like gender & sexuality don’t seem to have much to do with each other outside of social history.
As a whole being intersex doesn’t mean you should be grouped in with trans people unless you feel that you’re trans, I’d say the majority of us with intersex variations would consider ourselves cisgender men/women with a medical variation but there are so many types that it really depends on the condition.
My initial point though was that the dismissal of non-binary even being a thing seems like a bit of an oversight on Destiny’s part in favour of not coming across as cringe lol, it’s more complicated than that
@@JS-lq3bh Yeah, your points all make sense to me. I suppose in the case of an intersex person who considers themself cisgender it is especially odd to be under the LGBT(I) umbrella, but the categories of LGBT and intersex do overlap in some cases such as yours.
I think that, accepting that non-binary is a useful designation, I still have a lot of trouble understanding what it means for someone who is not intersex. So much so that the utility of 'non-binary' for intersex people and for non intersex people seem like almost completely different conversations.
In any case, thanks for your perspective.
tl;dr: me a dummy poo poo head
Normal everyday non-online people see sex and gender as the same thing. So ye, most good-willed people will call an intersex person whatever they want to be called, because intersex is a genuine, actual spectral exception to the two typical sexes.
For others, society should totally just expand the categories and allow men to do whatever feminine things they'd like, and women to do whatever masculine things they'd like without batting too many eyes - but all of this teenage attention-gender nonsense is the same as the whole transgender thing to most everyday people. The divorce of sex from gender is a terminally-online thing. Most people do not recognize it as a thing at all, or as a valid thing if they're familiar with it. Valid men do feminine things. Valid women do masculine things. Because stereotypes never made someone the gender they are. "People take it seriously" (online, on social media networks which will ban you if you dissent) is not a valid reason to declare otherwise. We shouldn't be redefining words and pulling the rug out from under all of western society because a couple people here or there decided it was the more progressive thing to do. Most people who switch up their pronouns and pretend otherwise irl because there's a problematic person in the office who will get them fired otherwise - don't actually agree either. We're just forcing two-faced pseudo-acceptance, and cursing these people we're claiming to facilitate. It is not the compassionate thing to do for dysphoric people.
Where people transition offline, in reality, is exceptional - and is usually a result of the terminally-online ideas bleeding into reality. Most people are too polite and too afraid of the consequences, but they do not actually think a man can become a woman or vice versa. On the rare occasion where it takes place, it's just playing pretend because someone wants to be someone fundamentally different than they are. I'd rather be honest with them, respect them, accept them for who they are, and to see them strive to accept themselves as they are. Feminine or masculine as they may be. Most people struggle to accept themselves, and to accept that they're less special and more plain than most of us would like to be. But it's the only way to hope to achieve actual contentment, and to ever really accept yourself as you are. To do otherwise is dangerous and two-faced, just as encouraging a body-dysmorphic person to remove their limbs to match the person they'd like to see themself as would be. Just as we wouldn't pretend an adult is actually a robot superhero, to make them feel better as the way they see themselves. It may sound crazy and X-phobic to you, dear reader, but it's genuinely the same thing to most people.
But having a normie-enough opinion makes you transphobic so I'm liable to get banned for saying so, so the whole issue is just going to fail to sway most people's minds as it festers until it reaches critical mass and explodes, and harms these people so much more than it is doing now.
Intersex conditions are categorically one sex or the other still
There isn’t really a such thing as being between sexes, just physical irregularities regarding your sex
I think a lot of these labels are so easily appropriated or misused because they either lack a strong presence of public definition or people have adopted it as a label of expression rather than identity.
Did u by chance put a cheating software on a csgo-streamers PC?
UA-cam arc is goated
Gender identity is the Pokémon cards of the 2020’s
I'm mtf trans, and it's really hard for me to grasp the concept of non-binary and how they feel, like I can't understand it even remotely at all. I had a lot of dysphoria, but literally 100% of it was based on me being one sex, and wanting to be the other. It's hard for me to conceptualize not wanting to be either gender even as a trans person. But to be fair I've never had a close one on one conversation with someone that was non-binary about how they feel either so idk. Maybe there's something in common, but it really doesn't feel like it. I know for sure that it's definitely not the same experience as being a binary trans-person.
On the "tomboy" "tomgirl" argument I wonder if this is where a lot of the non-binary people are coming from, because I know plenty of mtf people that are tomboys. They still do a lot of the activities that boys like, but absolutely 100% still want to be female, a lot of this being gaming related or certain outdoor activities. Like I like hunting, and a quite a few other traditionally male activities, but even if I was on an island by myself I know that I would rather be a woman doing those activities rather than a man. I'm sure there are plenty of ftm that also like traditionally female activities.
I don't see a lot of cis-people any more though that seem to like the opposite genders activities anymore, but Idk.
I mean not being able to grasp the concept is entirely normal right?
A Trans person could never hope to grasp the experience of a Cis person nor a Non-Binary person, A Non-Binary person could never hope to grasp the experience of a Cis or Trans person, and a Cis person could never hope to grasp a Non-Binary or Trans persons experience
@@herovill9629 I don't really know if that's true, I feel like I can generally understand how a cis-person probably feels. More likely a cis-woman than a cis-man, but I can also understand how cis-men are excited by their beards, and muscles, and body hair even though I definitely was not.
I think there is a lot more similarities between a cis-person and binary-trans people than a trans people and a non-binary people.
I don't even know how dysphoria would manifest in someone that is non-binary? Like I don't know if they get dysphoria from gendered aspects of there lives, or euphoria from both? What's ideal for them? Most binary-trans people would probably agree that it would be ideal if people couldn't differentiate them from cis-people. That doesn't seem to be the same for non-binary.
Finally someone speaking without hate. Yeah non binary stuff is weird, but from what I was told it's sometimes dysphoria, and sometimes it's euphoria.
For me, when I was identifying as non binary it was very much that I had some manly features I liked. I liked having broad shoulders and having some facial hair but I also wanted to wear skirts and have long hair and painted nails and otherwise girly stuff. Now as I'm changing, I kinda just wanna never shave ever again and be called miss.
TLDR, its whatever floats their boat
@@rxxs2918 Letting anyone say a personal mental issue and validate that as a valid and accepted mode of being is itself not a rational way of thinking. Your ideas were poorly thought out.
@@cryptocaesar8972 what are you trying to say?
14:17 yeah..this point has really stuck with me. its something thats been on my mind for a long while.
there needs to be a fucking discussion online about what dysphoria means. its used so nebulously and as a catch all term for any thing that make feel no good. also I don't think pointing out how you have a mental issue doesn't make you at least a little insuferable to yourself and others. like geez I've done this myself going on about how I'm soo suicidal and yet here I am. if I went around telling people I would kill myself just because something didn't go my way or I wasn't addressed properly just seems soo childish, which is what a lot of the online trans community has done I feel. just slap a 'dysphoria' label on it and now the oceans must part for you. also makes you wonder why we let teenage trans people rule the discourse on sites like Instagram. soo many fucking accounts run by 15 yr and 16 yr old teenagers.
yes I am trans I just don't make it my fucking identity and think about it constantly.
Unironically brave of you to come out with this take. I couldn’t agree more. The idea of “Transtrenders” was a meme but now it’s an actual, tangible phenomenon.
He's already purged his audience of the people that would have left him over expressing this take. His audience is pretty much empty of leftists. It's just skeptics and "classical libertarians" now.
How brave. To tell your remaining audience how you really feel about the group that you've let spite alienate. Nothing like a little ingroup bonding over annoyance at an outgroup that's recently left the fold.
@@ms6534 who left the fold?
His subscriber count remains the same, there were no big migration, we are still the same group of happy campers as we always were.
@@JM-mh1pp when did he start his anti lefty arc? Like 2 years ago? He doesn't have any SJWs in his viewership s now. Also, -20,000 SJWs and +25,000 skeptic gamer bros isn't the same thing as, "no one left."
@@ms6534 So how do you define left? Is left only the most radical bleeding edge?
Neopronouns or bust?
@@JM-mh1pp i don't believe in neo-pronouns.(edit: i don't believe neo-pronouns benefit society.) Gender is linked to sex because that's the purpose of gender for society historically. There was, and in some ways still are, good reasons to treat people of different sex differently. There's no good reason to treat someone differently for being deer gender.
There are three types of neo pronoun people.
1. You want in on the pronoun thing.
2. Severe mental illness.
3. People who are attacking gender as a concept by attempting to dilute it with meaningless terminology.
The issue with destiny is the way he engaged with the argument. He lets the people he's arguing against get under his skin. Then he throws massive generalizing insults at entire communities. After talking up how detached and unemotional he is.
To quote a different idiot, "what a weasely little liar, dude!"
He lumped all "lefties" into one pile; claimed that we don't anything about econ.
Now it's all non-binary people. Saying he doesn't believe non-binary exists.
The DSM 5 definition of transgender is specifically delineated in such a way as to include non-binary.
There are definitely socialists who have exhaustively studied econ.
Destiny is a spiteful baby man.
I mean yeah there are non-binary individuals who conflate their experience with trans-men and trans-women. But how does that negate the category non-binary as a whole? It’s the same with people who claim to have depression or adhd but don’t. It doesn’t make those categories themselves questionable, just means some people are questionable. His response to this being there is no scientific backing seems odd because science isnt really needed for this conversation. What is there to scientifically establish? Gender being on a spectrum seems documented, wouldn’t that be all that needed?
@Floating Heads Media yes there is a gender spectrum not a pure binary. But non-binary does not apply to everyone because there are those in which do feel like they identify strongly with one end of the spectrum: “he or she.” Even if you hold that no one truly does behave or seem like one gender you can easily find people who do feel like one. Though, your argument would just imply, either, that everyone is non-binary, or gender doesn’t exist. And while I’d likely agree with you on the latter, the issue is society behaves as if it does, so it causes there to be real-but-socially-constructed categories. Meaning “non-binary,” so on, become valid responses to a world which holds the reality of gender, even if it’s not actually true.
Wait what do you mean by gender is a spectrum?
@@theanimehub2180 I think it means gender expression exists on a spectrum
@@theanimehub2180 to add to the person who responded. Both gender, as a usually seen essentialist binary, and gender expression, are both themselves spectrums. There are different modes of both intersubjective and externally perceived being that aren’t classified adequately under the currently held gender binary. As well, the gender binary isn’t essentialist, there aren’t categorical necessary and sufficient conditions to be ‘x’ gender (wrt the binary). So when we actually talk about gender, and gender expression, we are talking about a spectrum of being-in gendered terms.
@@MakingUGoOmg Sorry for the long ass text ahead, you don't need to read it if you don't want to :) It's a defense of non-binary identity being real and true (outside of a social construct), and a response to your point of gender being real- but socially constructed.
I think if we want to move this conversation forward we need to clearly differentiate concepts like "gender (in general)", “gender expression”, “gender roles” and “gender identity”. Sex is also a different category that TENDS be attached to gender identity. I do not believe gender is socially constructed. I think it's a core identity that's in your mind: in your brain, if you will (that's why only we can determine it). We often seem to be having conversations about gender roles (which ARE socially constructed), instead of actual gender identity.
Binary trans people's experience can be many things; physical gender dysphoria (sex dysphoria ig), social gender dysphoria (more of a social feeling of uneasiness than a biological issue), recognition of your gender, dissociation with the gender you were assigned, physical gender euphoria, social gender euphoria, etc. Some trans people experience some of these, some all of them, and some none of these. We accept physical gender dysphoria the easiest, though.
What do all trans people have in common? An insight into their gender identity; they know. It's not a feeling, it's just a core fact about you.
I don't think trans people are that different from cis people; Destiny seems to think he wouldn't have physical gender dysphoria if he had a female body. That could be true. Some people tend to have physical expectations intimately related to their gender identity, some don't. And I'm sure some people don't have a strong sense of gender identity, like Destiny!
I am a counterexample: a cisgender woman who would probably feel dysphoria if I had a male body. I am a woman. I just know. I would be even if I was assigned male at birth and had a dick.
So if we accept that gender identity exists outside of a social setting and creation (which we can disagree on and discuss further), and that only we have insight into our gender identity (or lack there of)... why should non-binary identities be invalid?
Your gender identity can be determined by dissociation from the gender you were assigned at birth, which most acceptable (binary) trans people seem to experience, so why is it an invalid criteria for non-binary people? Why is identification with a gender necessary?
I feel like if we accept dissosiation from your assigned gender to be a valid criteria for binary trans people, non-binary identity makes perfect sense. You neither identify with 'man' nor 'woman', the same way a trans woman might not identify with 'man'.
Some non-binary do experience gender identification, some even physical and social dysphoria (they get medical treatment and dress androgynous), but some don't.
Maybe my logic fails, but I've spent some time thinking about it, and I don't understand what people are so confused about with nb people.
I dont understand the they/them thing, they them implies multiple people, why can they claim that as a neopronoun
Doesn't always imply multiple people. I.e. me: "I met a cool person yesterday" friend: "oh cool, where were they from?". Singular use of they/them. It's just pronouns used when the gender is unknown. So no reason it can't be used when you can't tell someones gender or when they say they don't identify with either gender. Honestly it's just a great catch all even when someone gives you some xe/xer shit just use they/them cuz fuck other shit. That way you probs wont get them unnecessarily angry and you don't have to use stupid shit. double win
I thought so at first but the guy above is correct, they\them is used in English to not mention gender.
Oh okay thanks, makses sense. In Estonian language we dont have gender specific pronouns at all, makes shit like this very simple
@@JohannesArm Tom Scott did a good video about this in his videos about languages, don't remember the name but you can try to find it.
someone doesn’t understand how English works
Non-binary is not the way we should be going and here’s my thoughts on it. Everyone has both masculine and feminine energies or aspects to their personality. No one is 100% only masculine and 100% only feminine. So in a way gender is a spectrum that everyone is on but there is practically no one in history who would be completely on either end of this spectrum. And by this logic technically everyone on earth is non binary. We all have feminine and masculine energies, just varying amounts of each. So what would make you non binary? Being exactly 50%feminine and 50% masculine? 60/40? What make up do you need to be considered non binary? What does it even mean to be non binary? You like to wear different clothes that normal people in your gender don’t usually wear? Ok have fun with that. You don’t need to create a whole other gender or change something about the way you view yourself fundamentally if you want to wear a dress. So instead of having men, for masculine people and women for feminine people and non binary for anyone who wants to say they are, I believe we should refer to each other by our sex and get rid of this whole confusing gender debate. It doesn’t do any good it only confuses things and makes gender roles seem more strict. Like you can’t be a feminine man anymore who might like nail polish. You have to be non-binary or trans now if you want to do this.
You're starting with the culturally constructed and defined binary of masculine and feminine and then asking what it means for a person to not associate with either.
@@TheFhqwhgadsLimit You ignored his whole point. Pronouns should be based on your perceived sex not your made up gender. There is no utility in your ideology.
@@TheFhqwhgadsLimit I’m starting with the presupposition that there are certain personality traits that we associate more with men and more with women that each lay on a spectrum, and every person has each of these traits just to varying degrees and intensities. What we define as feminine and masculine is culturally defined and can change with time and vary depending on location or even species. There are men scientifically and women scientifically and all of the gender norms is basically just taking the average across each sex for all of these traits. There’s no point in being non binary or a she/they or they/them when in reality every single person has varying levels of femininity and masculinity within themselves. Everyone would technically be non binary because people are much more complex that binary numbers. This was a bad movement and we should really just focus more on accepting the outliers and letting them just be themselves rather than pushing for more confusing genders.
@Floating Heads Media nah. You're non binary now. Take it.
@@ABetterName22 You are describing my whole point. Why start with that presupposition? What we call masculine and feminine are just categories of behavior that we find common in groups of people and have assigned terms for it. The culture has assigned two distinct terms to this and even if you have a mix of them, if you have more of the traits associated with one defined group we call you one label and if you have more of the traits associated with the other defined group we call you that label instead. But then some people feel like they don't really fit neatly in either of those two distinct groups and call themselves non binary. I don't see the issue with this
I mean, I would say it’s silly to equate the experience of being non-binary and looking cis with the experience of being a trans man or woman and the oppression that comes with that. That said, I don’t really understand what Destiny would say about the people who genuinely just don’t identify with either gender?
You cant. It's impossible. Plenty of metaphysical academia covers this. You cant identify with an experience you have not experience yourself. This is why we can't know what it's like to be a bat. We can't fathom echolocation. You cant identify as the experience of a class which you have never experienced. There does not exist a third sex, so to identify as a third sex is impossible. You can reject gender roles and still fall in line with the gender just as 99% of the population does.
that most people don't. only trans people spend all day thinking about their genders, everyone else i.e 99% of the population thinks gender is a synonym for sex
Seeing destiny actually play a game for once is jarring
I cannot agree more with your take I thought the same thing but I haven't been able to have that conversation with a someone who is non binary
If gender expression is a spectrum rather than a binary, isn’t everyone non-binary? Doesn’t it become a pointless term at that point?
DAmn, he finally gets it.
destiny has dismissed women as "terfs" for saying this. ironic
Link it
transmedicalist destiny thinks he is unique
the gender fluid thing i agree on. i think big part of this many genders and pronouns being a thing is this weirdly aggressive need from people online for u to label yourself as precisely as possible o they can know if they want to be your friend. as u grow up u feel many things about yourself, your body and surroundings and it can be very confusing especially when everyone @ u to add your pronouns into bio immediately or u r transphobe
Really tho? I’m in plenty of queer spaces online and I’ve never felt the need to actually come out or ever explain my gender identity or sexuality to anyone, I have my pronouns in my bio and that’s it nobody questions me on anything 🤷🏼♂️
I know at least two non-binary people who’ve used hormone therapy to more become androgynous. It seems like they experienced very similar stuff to the trans men I know, and felt something like gender euphoria.
Oh wow I didn’t know Anderson Aldrich had access to hormone therapy in jail.
110% agree with everything he's saying. I need to ask him a question next time he's live and on this topic again.
I know the kind of people that Destiny is talking about and sure, between you and me it does strike me as a little odd that many choose not to transition in any noticeable way. But it doesnt cost me sleep. And as someone who consider themself non-binary (androgynous/androgyne), I dont think this really defines me or a number of other non-binary people for that matter. As for me, I personally was on HRT (much less than what trans women go on) and changed the way I dressed and went about in society, I even plan on getting voice lessons to make my voice androgynous. I want to make it clear to very clear to society that I am through and through androgynous and hopefully itll make it easier for them to use they/them. A tall order, but its one that I have taken on. You're right that my experience isnt the same as a trans woman or a trans man's, but there are some similarities. The tension between me and my family is there, the distress I get from my appearance is there, people sometimes treat me weirdly in public-- its happened. So there's my own two cents. I do live a trans experience as an enbie, it may not be the same as a binary one's but no one's trans expierence is the same. So lets not get too hasty. Non-binary is a very broad term.
EDIT: Also what Destiny said is not true concerning precedent for non-binary identities. Throughout the world there have been non-binary identities from China to the Middle East to even Europe itself. Now you can say they weren't understood in the same way we understand non binary today, but you can say the same thing about sexuality.
You should email Destiny that
Sounds like doodoo
Thx for sharing ur experience
Please email Destiny this he's really walking back his old takes that helped me be comfortable with my 'gender identity' in the first place :[
All this seems extremely weird to me and just raises one question whenever I hear takes like this: Why care? Like, if you think someone's gender or pronouns are "radiculas," like, cool, but why not just move on with your life? People having these identities isn't causing harm, but conservatives trying to stop trans kids from being able to get on hormone blockers, thus forcing them through the wrong puberty, is, so why not just focus on that more than this other totally harmless thing?
Because these psychos will send you death threats, dox you and get you fired and harass your family if you don’t use their made up neo pronoun
@@wolfensteinabsolutely8715 so first thing, all language is made up. Words only mean what they mean because we decided they do. Secondly, why are you being so broad with your characterizations?
A child that is not even capable of driving a car is not capable of making a medical decision that will fundamentally alter the nature of their bodies. Children are impressionable, and more importantly, *often wrong.* There is a real issue these days with children being groomed by bad actors in the trans community to believe they are something that they are not, assisting them in accessing blockers against their family, and sometimes even doctor's will, and then regretting it years later. This is a common topic of discussion in the detrans community, which has been growing at an alarming pace, and I'm certain will continue to do so for the same reasons in the coming years.
This is not an indictment of the trans community at large, but if putting children on hormone blockers really is the way, we are clearly not ready for it as a society.
@@peytonalexander5300 What medical decisions? You mean hormone blockers that have been used on cis kids for years and are reversible by not taking them? And wouldn't people who want to detransition only be helped by normalizing, and thus causing more research into, the process of transitioning?
I'm so happy that I can find some moderate takes here. I have felt quite alone in the online communities I frequent. It's either 'Nah all of it is bullshit, people are made trans, trans healthcare should be banned' or 'Everyone who doesn't identify with the stereotypes of man/woman is trans and that's as valid and people with gender dysphoria, disagreeing makes you a transphobe/transmedicalist'
Like bitch, I just want to inform myself, stay somewhat empirical and come to a decent policy position. It's like being a middle manager, you're dunked on from above and kicked from below and while you're trying to do your best to find an acceptable and practical solution.
I remember the mods on his sub were removing comments that were against that one Canadian "NB" person receiving 30k cuz her boss didn't say her pronouns. And now destiny comes out and says this. Lmao.
Well I'm glad he came out and said this at least.
He’s not wrong about people hopping on the gender trend stuff these days being attention seeking and doing it because it’s cool and trendy. Still, I could see how non-binary can be an actual thing that people truly feel like.
I feel like non-binary is a step above the metrosexual trend, and I know it’s not the same exactly, but hermaphrodites exist so its plausible that non-binary isn’t a made up thing. Neo pronouns I can’t wrap my head around tho tbh.
Dude, it's how the government controls the behaviour.
People go were money is.
What do we do to stop people from smoking or buying the gas cars?
The government increases the taxes or tariffs.
What do we do to promote Women or Trans or Fat or ... the government provides Grants & Subsidies & Tax cuts & lowering the Tariffs ...
Look, 40 years ago China was an agrarian country.
Everyone was a farmer.
40 years later, they are all Engineers.
And we have Fat Studies.
People go where money is.
There is no Production & Engineering goes away.
China now has the highest levels of Innovation & Technology.
The majority of the patents are now coming from China.
By 2026-2028 China/India will have the highest GDP.
*
Well, maybe in a 100 years China will require the Fat Studies Consultants.
So maybe one day, our spending on Women & Fat & Trans studies will pay off.
Maybe.
@@bestdjaf7499 cool story bro, but you should really take your schizo meds sometime soon
@@osamabindiesel3389
*Which point I made is crazy?
You disagree that the governments are controlling the human behaviour?!
Why do you think we give subsidies & grants & tax cuts?
Why Trump threatened to increase tariffs?
Why do you think we have Fat Studies & not "Short & Bold & Ugly" studies?!
If you pay people to have sex with donkeys, believe me, like 60% will.
@@osamabindiesel3389 he's trying but he's lost in your walls
Just look at Thought Slime. She’s and attention seeking moron. He needs to go outside.
So, i'm not trying to argue with anyone, so if you just wanna yell at me don't reply.
At 5:33 he ignored the user MapleWanderer for a pretty fair comment they made, i don't even think it was saying the same thing as he meant.
aka: he was saying he wanted to ignore comments saying he had that opinion bc it was online influenced.
meanwhile the comment actually says: the individual knows someone who isn't online and has a certain behavior.
To me that was very unfair of him. Or i could be reading the situation wrong.
"The Trans Experience" sounds like a roller coaster ride
About non-binary in academic literature- you try reading Verginia Goldener's "TRANS: Gender In Free Fall". She's a psychoanalyst that also writs about gender, and personally I find her papers about the topic very interesting
@Throw Away that's a peer reviewed academic assays, so yeah of course it's study based
Non binary is real, but not very common. There are people who take HRT and get surgeries to actually be androgynous or cycle through different things to be gender fluid. But the majority of it is cis white people who don’t want to identify as a group they see as part of the problem.
Non binary is also a cope for trans people who don’t think they pass. I don’t know how to say that without sounding mean, but I think it’s pretty undeniable.
@@jazzgrackle1021 for some, probably, but there are others that love feeling androgynous, reveling in the confusion of people not knowing whether they're a ms or mr.
@@rxxs2918 Love feeling androgynous to confuse people? You're terminally online touch grass
@@revolioclockbergjr.6780 my bad, I said something you don't like which means I have to go outside!
@@rxxs2918 Or buy rope, you're choice kiddo
I don't understand. So You can only use a different gender identity as cisgendered if you had negative experiences in the past?
Why that? Nowhere in the definition of gender is something about it having to be emotionally negative/ positive.
"two spirit" is an umbrella term that describes practices of a few Native American tribes and it's always badly misinterpreted, and the same tribes had very strong gender roles that would be frowned upon today
It seems to me that Gender is a real thing. Gender as a evolutionary thing, Females that have a Female Gender probably get more mates or mates that stick around and help raise offspring. same with the Male Gender. but it doesn't seem that Sex is a single gene, nor does gender seem to have a single gene. Maybe you get enough genes mixes you may get a non binary person. Now this probably was when society was stricter, not social acceptable people wouldn't express that part of themselves.
Right now we are as a society exploring if we want to re frame how we use words to express whats going on. Is the biological woman a Tom boy, or non binary? or any other words we wish to use. I know young man who was so very much not a "Man" that they explored being a Transwomen, but found that being a transwomen was not right either. Now they usually go by he him, though sometimes they do a hyper fem, and go by she. He is comfortable calling themselves nonbinary but can talk about themselves being male. So for the most part be respectful of people as they are exploring their gender, many are earnest and if there are some that are just doing it for attention, well as Destiny said some people should seek attention as they figure it out.
Gender is literally fake and just a label slapped on top of our biological sex as it has been forever. All of this white gender ideology is modern garbage.
The thing with saying you’re “non-binary” is that the people convince themselves they’re so, like it was originally for clout but now they genuinely believe it.
How could you falsify this? I’m not saying it doesn’t happen but ppl could level the same criticism towards gay or trans ppl
@@ataraxia7439You can identify a gay or trans person through objective means
This non-binary bullshit is basically as falsifiable as saying I turn into an elephant when no one is around.
There are attacks you can do that cannot be parried, casual.
hes finally seeing the light
I can't believe he fucked it up.
Tomgirl is a girlish boy, Destiny! How dare you profane the divine archetype?!
remember when the cool thing was rejecting the concept of labels and being yourself?
now it's making up as many labels as you can to be the most specialest.
social media are the cancer of society.
I mean being gender nonconforming doesn't necessarily mean u like labels it's actually what made me drop basically all my labels I just identify as queer across the board any pronouns it's chill I do want some transitional surgeries but people that didnt know me as like a middle schooler mostly can't tell my gender and guess my pronouns randomly, even before that though when I thought I was just gay I never corrected anyone on my pronouns people w binary genders cis and trans also care about labels thats the whole point so I dont really get this point
@@MoDende the point is that "I have 100 genders and pronouns to pick from" is a stupid mentality.
@@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz I legit just told u my mentality, ur original point u were implying anyone outside the gender binary is obsessed w labels basically and I told u my mentally which is not that if anything the opposite I'd prefer if I didnt have to have any label at all but queer is just such an all encompassing word for sexuality and gender its easiest to just use that and not worry about the social charades of pronouns
@@MoDende my point is that Labels are stupid, as in saying "I am Male/Female/Nonbinary" doesn't really say anything about you, therefore making even more labels is dumb.
if you think about it when you told me you are "gender non-conforming" that doesn't actually tell me anything. I still don't know what you're like.
descriptors are valuable, labels aren't. "I am Male" doesn't actually say anything since a male can engage in any kind of behavior, "I am more masculine" does say that you engage in more masculine behavior. same for female and feminine.
that's why nonbinary is useless, "I am nonbinary" is just as vague and useless as "I am male", but you can't use nonbinary as a descriptor like you can with masculine/feminine.
because there are no "nonbinary behaviors", because masculine and feminine are derived from sex.
@@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz why do u need to know how I present or my sex tho, also masculine and feminine do u mean like aesthetic or something else because aesthetic can be sex related ig but it can also not be at all like telling me a person is masculine doesn't necessarily tell me their sex
he's going back and forth between saying he doesnt know to saying he thinks it's bullshit
is he trying to gauge his community's reaction?
Y'all remember that movie, "I Now Pronounce You Chuck & Larry"?
About Adam Sandler and Kevin James getting married for a tax cut, but the main struggle was that they were straight.
That makes me think a lot about people who come out as NB for the attention or the 'validation' or whatever.
Seems like to mean that most trans people need to go to a therapist. Or to some kind of mental professional first. Before going to their doctor saying I want estrogen or testosterone. I'm just saying. That that should be the first thing that you do before you do any kind of surgery or any kind of a transitioning is to go to a mental health professional first. Just to be sure.
Transmedicalist arc here we come
facts lol
the stolen valor is especially annoying when you’re gay and dealt with a lot of stuff growing up in the 90s and early 2000s. tbh i’m definitely getting old and set in my ways, but i think the most important thing nowadays is to not say things we don’t believe.
Is it wrong to want things to make sense? why would anyone indentify as it/that? I am logical person and like things to be based on something.
I don't think you need "Coming up..." unless the video is at least 40 min to an hour long.
Actual brave take
Bravely braindead.
No brave take goes unpunished
@@user-texgen EXACTLY you should be punished for your bravity
@@avarice4556 cant tell if this is irony 🤣
@@user-texgen 💀💀
Destiny, my brother in christ, level your vigor.
My thoughts have been that since people bring up how other cultures have had 3 or more gender categories, that we would need to slowly develop a new category and nb people would fall into one of the new categories. But since they don't exist in our culture right now, Nb is an aetheral status that carries almost no social meaning besides not wanting the 2 existing labels. Until we build a social category, nb just describes a nebulous state of mind that they don't feel fits in the classic genders. Androgynous presentation exists so I suppose something like that will be more solidified as a category.
The mere concern for categories is a bit pathological.
@@cryptocaesar8972 on my end or the people adopting various labels? I generally try to avoid categorizing myself, so I don't personally understand the desire to tell people I'm a particular thing. But for those that do, it's helpful when we all understand what you are saying you are, so categories.
@@willjapheth23789 The people adopting various labels. Saying you’re non binary is a made up thing and doesn’t help anyone understand anything other than the fact that you’re a weird leftist probably chasing clout.
@@cryptocaesar8972 yea id guess nb people generally really are androgynous, which is fine, or are gender abolitionists or just want a label for clout, which is the irritating part.
This whole topic is nonsense.This all rests on the idea that gender refers to you having a social role based on being a man or woman and that is not even a thing. Someone who believes in this shit, I'd love to know: What role does a woman have? What role does a man have? Are women supposed to be caregivers who cook and clean and play a submissive support role? Are men supposed to be competitive and dominant while working to provide for the family?
Dangerously based take.
transmedicalist take u mean
@@havefaith4382
You know calling people “transmedicalist” isn’t the gotcha trump card accusation you think it is, right? It’s a different branch of opinion in a purely theoretical conversation.
@@BareBandSubscription gender does not exist factually so it is dumb to be transmedicalist the way you beat gender dysphoria is by eliminating the stupid social construct of gender
@@BareBandSubscription I hope you don’t claim to support the lgbtq community or have pronouns in bio. Cause you can’t do that and think it’s ok for Destiny to think non-binary isn’t valid
@@Dolphinboi
He’s actually reevaluated his stance on non-binary since this and acknowledges that it’s valid but easy to fake, likely faked by many transtrenders, which I happen to agree with. If that’s wrong to you, then maybe get over it? Also, very cute that you think having pronouns in your social media means anything beyond an empty gesture or simple conformity.
Does Destiny not realize he has to kill 3 of these guys? He is never gonna win that at his lvl
he killed em in that stream
@@verydeepfrozen really all 3?
@@winterh46334 he is the god of gaming and debating at the same time. All those league games while debating prepared him for this
I'm glad that Destiny is honest about his thoughts, albeit I disagree about the nonbinary take, as someone who falls under the label. He could've just been dishonest about his thoughts on my gender identity and I'd take his honesty over a bs lie any day
he has since changed his mind
@@merc5604 I had no idea, tbh
I mean based on the most prominent theory of how gender identities are formed there should be those with both genders and those with no gender.
Since it is believed to be a similar cause as the cause behind sexuality.
You have the ones who like females, the ones who like males, the ones who like both and the ones who like none (a bit over simplified).
For gender identity you pretty much just have like four of them as far as I understand.
The thing with trans women and trans men is that the gender is conflicting with the sex.
destiny fans before: ok but hes not transphobic he just feels strongly about some topics and hes right anyways hes always right
destiny fans now: ok i agree that some trans women are women but who the fuck are nonbinary? what the fuck is that? this is a 41 percent time!!!!!
???
Oh it's u xd
Get a hobby little girl
As a nonbinary destiny fan I'm feeling what ur speaking rn 💀
literally
@@emilyleaf9857 are you a white teen?
I’ve been saying this for a long time. I see a lot of people both online and in real life who will identify themselves as non-binary, but with present themselves in a very gendered way, and it feels really disingenuous.
My understanding on non-binary identities is that you don’t identify strongly with any end of a gender spectrum, so then why in the world are you going around wearing dresses and skirts, makeup, jewelry, long hair, heels, and fake nails? Like at that point, you are just presenting as a woman, and when that’s you EVERY DAY, you are just a woman, there’s no getting around that.
So not exactly I think this rly only works if your coming at it from a very deconstructist POV. So imo your a “man” if you identify as a man and that’s it it’s like being a fan of a team or a game franchise. Yeah I like halo but am I a halo fan well the answer is just if I think I am. it’s a self identification. Now me personally I was identified as a boy when I was born and my gender expression now is very masculine but I don’t feel a strong connection to any part of what is socially considered a man so I feel more comfortable going with they/them. Just because I don’t identify with gender doesn’t mean I can’t like x type of clothing or way of acting
Saying that I wouldn’t call myself trans.
I hope this slice of my prospective helps a little
@@novuswojtek9346 as a kind of bridge here, this whole take of "non-binary but with clear gender presentation is lame" really is just a supporting argument for "non-binary /= trans". Your comment didn't make it seem like you were offended or anything, but to be perfectly crystal clear these arguments are not an attack on your presentation or mindset. You cleared up at the end, you don't consider yourself trans, you just prefer they/them pronouns. That's totally cool, and I don't think even destiny would fight you on that, the problem only arises when people that clearly identify visibly with a certain gender expression call themselves non-binary just to "be trans" and therefore be untouchable. Kind of like an "oh I'm wrong? Well I'm trans, and disagreeing with me makes you TRANSPHOBIC, I win bye bye!" type situation.
Is womanhood dresses, skirts, makeup, and jewelry to you? That seems like something you need to think about and then get back to me.
@@jin-zz1bj Way to TOTALLY miss the point of the argument, but you expose an interesting idea, do you think womanhood is the same thing as gender presentation? The original comment is about gender presentation seemingly actively contradicting gender identity and how it makes people who take the non-binary label but seem to conform 100% to a rigid gender presentation norm of male or female look like they're just doing it to steal the trans argument cheat codes. Being trans on the internet rn makes you an untouchable entity, and internet non-binary people seem like they're trying to invent a label to get it on it.
@@DannyT-ln5ex no. I think it perfectly shows my point. He’s saying they’re somehow conforming to their gender by wearing dresses and such? As if those are gendered items. They aren’t. The whole point of gender non-conformity and being non-binary is that those things aren’t restrictive to you.
It’s not a contradiction because non binary in itself is genderless.
Honestly on one hand I disagree and think that nonbinary people (at least they/them ones) are valid, but holy shit discussion of shit like neopronouns or nonbinary identities is the most online far left discussion you can have and it drives me crazy how easily they can brand people as transphobic for not using it/it's pronouns while majority of common people still think that trans people are mentally ill lunatics. These debates are completely meaningless and have no roots in real world.
Nonbinary is a catch-all for anyone who doesn't identify as male or female, be it due to physical or social dysphoria
Don't you mean identify as man or woman? Because those are genders and male and female are sexes.
@@chazbertino6102 ^Yes actually thx for the correction
I think that non-binary identity is important for actual people who want to transition genders because it gives them a transitional phase to exist when they don’t completely feel like either a man or a woman. I think that giving trans people a little breathing room to figure themselves out is a net positive, even if some non-binary presenting people are just doing it for attention.
I don't know, non-binary makes sense to me, but I agree a lot of people abuse labels when they really don't need them. I think not caring that much about your gender is pretty normal for a well-adjusted person.
But I also think it makes sense that some people might feel constricted by having to choose to be "always male" or "always female". I've seen some people present as female on some days, and male on other days. What word ought I use to describe such a person? Non-binary feels like a good catch all term for people who don't present as one or the other consistently, or feel like elements of both gender roles or presentations or whatever feel good to them.
However, I think I could agree that non-binary "isn't a gender". Perhaps a better word is "agender". Similar to someone being asexual, while I think the term is useful, it's not a sexuality. The definition is literally not having a sexuality. It's fair to say it's not a gender (as asexuality is fairly not a sexuality), and it's also fair to say this experience is nowhere near the active oppression many gay/lesbian people face (for asexuality), or what trans people face (for non-binary/agender). But it's still not quite a straight or cis experience - it's a little weird and not quite normal.
Also this is all very new and probably needs some time for philosophy / science to really nail down what is valid and what isn't. If at the end of the day, we find better terms or ways of expressing this - perhaps we're just fembois and tomgirls - then that's fine. I think it's worth exploring and discussing definitions, and exposing when they're inconsistent.
For now I use non-binary as a catch all. If one day I have better terms, I'll use that.
If someone has dysphoria in any other category, like if you felt you shouldn’t have an arm, but you only had periods where you felt that, you would be consider to have bouts of dysphoria, we wouldn’t make a new category just to validate you cause you want us to.
@@cryptocaesar8972 "make a new category" bruh just study sociology or anthropology, all historical analysis of society and cultures show gender being subjective, differing between cultures therefore not universal/objective. gender is socially constructed, and everyone in academia knows this.
@@astralgod6448What a poorly thought out poor response of a an argument. We as humans invented “gender categories.” Cause animals don’t categorize things nor do they give a fuck about gender. They just exist. Categories and language are tools, we often invent boxes to help categorize things so we can think about things easier. Someone telling me to call them non binary is not helpful therefore nor is it a valid tool. Step out of your ideological bubble, stop appealing to authority, and stop telling people to read into things you literally don’t know shit about and adopted solely because your ideological slant wants you to. Literally pathetic.
It's really crazy that people can grasp that gender is socially constructed in order to separate sex and gender but ignore that there are two socially constructed genders.
15:04 Bestiny Best Character Arc rn.
He really should have more debates about this Enby stuff.
Not just one Indian society had one gender once
Was it two Indian societies?
@@user-texgen American Samoa, Hawaii, Japan, Indonesia, Philippines, Peru, Myanmar, Thailand, Nepal, Mexico, Tonga, Native Americans
@@VoidOctopus I think its kind of like trying to find the gender unicorn. The ancient texts will lead us.
@@VoidOctopus those cultures sucked, that's why they either modernised or got genocided.
@@VoidOctopus
And the rest of the world agreed otherwise. I love this logic people throw out, citing a small minority of people or cultures throughout history to somehow justify overriding the consensus of the majority. It’s like when people want to cite intersex/hermaphroditic people, who make up *less than two percent* of the global population, to rationalize treating gender like a wide spectrum and not an obvious binary system founded on nature. (Plus, it’s in such poor taste to only recognize the intersex population in order to rationalize and support another separate group of people entirely. Kinda exploitative.)
For the record, I don’t care if people identify as non-binary. As long as it’s not hurting anyone, I couldn’t care less. I just find a lot of the same, tired supporting arguments to be more of a stretch than people are willing to acknowledge.
Whenever Destiny talks about the decline of drag, I'm like, "Clearly he is not a fan of Drag Race ." 😂😂😂
Remember at school when there was a hierarchy of popularity and kids would try and imitate what they did to either maintain their status or gain more? For instance, if the popular kids all had a specific brand of clothing, other would buy it to achieve this goal. With this trans explosion, do you think there’s any validity to the idea that kids identifying as trans are doing so to gain status?
10:35 not true there a strong link between autism and gender fluidity aswell as environmental factors, androgynous gender dysphoria is also a real thing people can get dignoised with and there is a long history of third way genders
Mostly teen girls are claiming to be non-binary not bio males. Otherwise spot on. Not sure how you drew that conclusion though
there is also a problem that female non-binary people are seen as more valid whilst male non-binery people are ignored or just considered soft or just trying to feel special
@@imnotnotgameiacmaniac5327 I mean…who cares. I’m sorry but they’re all trying to feel special.
@@shacka95 not really, the younger generation thats definitely a big part of it but its not everyone, i was also more specifically talking about discrimination and social groups not attention seeking behavior about how "valid" an identity is
Jonathan Van Ness is one person I see and go "okay I totally get what non binary is" but so many people who I've seen identify that way, it seems insincere and attention seeking. I wouldn't dismiss someone who said they're nonbinary but I must admit that a lot of what you said resonated with me
This mode of thinking is not valid. I didn’t know who you were talking about so I looked him up, he said sometimes he feels like a boy sometimes he feels like a girl.
If you said some days I’m lazy and some days im not, it does not therefore mean that a third category of binalazy needs to exist or something. All people feel more masculine or more feminine on any given day based on things like hormone fluctuations as an example.
Further the practicality of the language use itself does not help people. It doesn’t help governments sort you in a form, it doesn’t help doctors know your medical physical health background if you were in a car accident, it’s useless for us as a tool.
Interesting perspective.
They are just trying to enhance their profilicity.
I think a lot of the complaints destiny has are overwhelmingly online however we see it moving that way in the real world too.
He says this is an online issue every single time he talks about trans issues. Real life trans people do NOT do this shit, there may be the outliers in high school and universities but real life trans people are by and large normal people who are just trying to live their lives striving to embody physically and socially the gender they identify with. They don't do the "YOU'RE TRANSPHOBIC REEEEE" screeching that people like demonmama do online. 80% of the world is still illiterate on trans issues and doesn't even talk about them.
Holy Based.
the third gender categories in some cultures were pretty much all feminine males who live in a female social role or masuline females who live in a male social role, so those people today would, if ANYTHING, be trans not non-binary (though they could also just be feminine men or masculine women)
What's the Simon says audio clip from?
VOWSH
talking about how interacting with police is a deadly game of Simon says
@@varanaut1308 sometimes they are and sometimes they really aren't...
it's from Doomer's Vaush video