Awesome work getting this out, Daniel! Major capability game changer for these machines. So exciting! One suggestion for future development is a pneumatic dust boot that lifts when a tool change is command and then drops once it clears the tool rack. I operated an industrial machine with this implemented and it was a great feature. Maybe too complex for this class of machine, but I don’t think it’s terribly difficult since you have compressed air at the ATC spindle already. Extra long bristles are also a way to work that, but some potential drawbacks with that approach. One thing that’s common is to fly cut / face your MDF spoilboard. I most definitely would want a fly cutter in my tool magazine. What’s the inner diameter of those tool holders you have now? What’s the max diameter bit they could accommodate? To ease set-up, precision locating your 3D printed holders based on features (like pin holes) made with the machine itself would allow you to avoid the manual positioning and recording XY values for each tool holder position. You would know those XY positions based on having aligned them with machined features. Heck you could just machine them tool holders right on there! Food for thought as you consider customers going through that step and setting this up. Great work!
LOL.. great minds... I'm already researching piston driven boots. I have some bracketing samples on my bench here and exploring the idea for sure. That is a recognized HUGE limitation with these "drop-in" tool holders. The max bit diameter is roughly 1" (30mm). And to compound the problem, on my particular woodworker QCW the bit diameter can't be more than 1/4" due to the edge of the QCW rail (mentioned in the video). The "fork" style holders are certainly the best which is why I hinted at understanding what some of those settings were in the config page. Fork holders is a style that we'll release support for over the next month or so. Related... I've purchased a 1", 2", and the monster 2.5" surfacing bits to make some video content on using each... and i'll use them for validation of whatever non-fork holders ideas we come up with. That's definitely a good idea. I'll be sure DXF's of these/any tool holders "base" is provided with the maker files. This would allow folks to import into their CAD software and design some cuts that will precisely place the holders onto custom beds. Thank you for your support... it is very much appreciated.
The ATC itself no.. but our current options for tool-rack placement does. Approximately 2.5" is required. In this video i'm removing 2.5" from my X capacity. In the future we will be looking into movable tool-racks. Plus if you find any currently available on the market, so long as they support ISO20 tool holders, you can use them.
Hi! What CAM software do you use when making your g code? Is there any video of how to set up a CAM software to use this setup easy every time? Thanks for the video! Really great information!
I, personally, use CarvoCo as my CAD software, but as far as the Masso goes, the CAM software is actually firmware built directly into the Masso G3 controller.
Will the ATC work with your current water cooled spindles or does it require a whole new setup? Any ballpark on price so I can start stashing my allowance away? Will the collets that hold each bit be a separate purchase or come in a kit?
Its a new system, although they seem to offer fair deals on upgrading equipment. They just released the ATC system. Watch their newest video. They explain it in far greater detail, and link the site which covers even more details.
Is it possible to have the gantry move forward, Y direction, after it grabs the tool for those of us who don't have enough Z clearance to run over the top of the tool holders once the bit is in the spindle? In other words, grab tool, raise up to clear rack, move in away from rack, move to bit setter, move back in Y, then probe Z on the setter, etc.
The next rack idea I’ll be working on is the more traditional fork style rack which holds the tools and you move the spindle horizontally to remove the tool after locking it in the spindle.
Nice Video! At the end of the video, are you using the scrap block to hold it up so when you turn it off, it doesn't drop? I saw a video that showed set screws that can be tightened to stop the drop. But my question is, is there a way to tell the masso, that cutting where your tooler is located is out of bounds and not cut over there or do you just always zero when homing to tell it not to go past zero?
Thank you for the video. I contacted onefinity in February this year and asked about atc, they said they not included yet. Great to see that the option will be available hopefully by next year. I wanted to ask, would surfacing bits that are 2~3 inches be supported? Can the 80mm spindle run the 3 inch surfacing bit? I am guessing the 2inch ones should not be an issue. Most of my work is surfacing, if the cnc can do that and have an atc, I would definitely consider buying the cnc and getting it shipped to Pakistan.
Question, I bought a spindle 80mm 110v. and it’s causing my outlet to trip, I do have a 20amp outlet with a 20amp main breaker but still trips the GFCI outlet. Any suggestions?
VFD's are not compatible with GFCI outlets. It's ok to have a GFCI breaker, but the power draw is to much to fast for the outlets. Please replace the GFCI outlet with a standard outlet after confirming your breaker is GFCI compliant.
Yes, our tool racks here take approximately 2.5" of capacity. I chose to run the tools along the Y which removes 2.5" of X capacity but still allows me to tile if necessary. Some have run the tools along the Y which lets them keep their X capacity. We are working on a movable tool rack which would fix this issue but even that solution will come with pluses and minuses.
The newest Mill Right machines are coming with Masso controllers. And stay tuned for next-year's "big project" ;-) Meanwhile we are making steps towards a wonderful ecosystem. Our 80mm Spindle Mount is compatible with Mill Right's Mega-V... at least my particular machine. I believe most of their machines use the same Z carriage, so it should be compatible with most. If not we are willing to work with you to get the perfect adapter plate which will let you install our 80mm spindle mount onto your machine.
Hello, We're designing our ATC System to not be tied to any one particular machine or brand. The trouble will be if the CNC controller can support ATC's. If it can then we'll need to research how to wire an ATC into it for control. All of our research at this point has been focused on Masso controllers, but we are creating a list of other ATC-Capable controllers which we'll purchase and document properly. Out of the box for all un-researched controllers we can say confidently it will work as an MTC... with ATC functionality being researched.
This is the Onefinity Elite Woodworker size. It's likely that more tools could be positioned onto larger size machines. Some on our team have the larger machines and we'll be releasing some more tool-rack placement posts to our forum.pwncnc.com soon
The Elite (ie Masso controller) will have full ATC capabilities. For non-Masso controllers we have fully flushed out MTC (Manual Tool Change) button which allows for bit-changing with a push of a button. ua-cam.com/video/IFOkSZM4JEs/v-deo.htmlsi=WwL_ld1HCy0J3keK
Hey Daniel. Thanks for the Video! I have a question about the Masso controller. If I define tools 1-5, can I touch off all 5 tools with one command or do I have to manually touch off each tool?
As far as I know during the tool definition stage, is when you have access to the tool-setter operation. There is no way to say zero tool # 1-5 and go. However once the tools are all zero'd then they do remember that value.
We have the tool-setter on the front-left corner of the machine in the video; is that what you mean? The ATC does not prevent you from using the XYZ blocks to find the corner of your stock material.
Daniel, another horrible video. Sorry, but you keep moving your fingers around and I can't tell what the heck you are touching. Also, when you have the ATC drop tool 1 and get tool 2, you don't tell us how in the heck to do that!! SOOOO frustrating!!! I know you're a really smart guy, but you have to do videos as if we have no idea about the ATC.
changing tools in the MDI screen is as easy as using the g-code commands. Tx is the tool command. so to change from whatever tool is in the system now to tool 2... enter T2. But the controller won't actually execute that command until you also give it the M6 command. So all-in-one... use T2M6 to go from say tool 1 to tool 2. to move from tool 2 back to tool 1, use T1M6 To understand more about how the Masso controller does tool changes... checkout their video here: ua-cam.com/video/x_DNhu06_mg/v-deo.htmlsi=DELM_4ne6D6wD1zw
Awesome work getting this out, Daniel! Major capability game changer for these machines. So exciting!
One suggestion for future development is a pneumatic dust boot that lifts when a tool change is command and then drops once it clears the tool rack. I operated an industrial machine with this implemented and it was a great feature. Maybe too complex for this class of machine, but I don’t think it’s terribly difficult since you have compressed air at the ATC spindle already. Extra long bristles are also a way to work that, but some potential drawbacks with that approach.
One thing that’s common is to fly cut / face your MDF spoilboard. I most definitely would want a fly cutter in my tool magazine. What’s the inner diameter of those tool holders you have now? What’s the max diameter bit they could accommodate?
To ease set-up, precision locating your 3D printed holders based on features (like pin holes) made with the machine itself would allow you to avoid the manual positioning and recording XY values for each tool holder position. You would know those XY positions based on having aligned them with machined features. Heck you could just machine them tool holders right on there! Food for thought as you consider customers going through that step and setting this up.
Great work!
LOL.. great minds... I'm already researching piston driven boots. I have some bracketing samples on my bench here and exploring the idea for sure.
That is a recognized HUGE limitation with these "drop-in" tool holders. The max bit diameter is roughly 1" (30mm). And to compound the problem, on my particular woodworker QCW the bit diameter can't be more than 1/4" due to the edge of the QCW rail (mentioned in the video). The "fork" style holders are certainly the best which is why I hinted at understanding what some of those settings were in the config page. Fork holders is a style that we'll release support for over the next month or so.
Related... I've purchased a 1", 2", and the monster 2.5" surfacing bits to make some video content on using each... and i'll use them for validation of whatever non-fork holders ideas we come up with.
That's definitely a good idea. I'll be sure DXF's of these/any tool holders "base" is provided with the maker files. This would allow folks to import into their CAD software and design some cuts that will precisely place the holders onto custom beds.
Thank you for your support... it is very much appreciated.
Can't wait to get one!!!!!
how does the wood chips affect the atc? looks like that would be a major issue on keeping the z axis zero from tool change to tool change
Does this take away from overall working area of the machine?
The ATC itself no.. but our current options for tool-rack placement does. Approximately 2.5" is required. In this video i'm removing 2.5" from my X capacity. In the future we will be looking into movable tool-racks. Plus if you find any currently available on the market, so long as they support ISO20 tool holders, you can use them.
does your spindles and controller automaticlly change rpm as the feed rate changes so the chip load is always the same duringa carve?
is there any instructions or way to use the 1F buildbotics controller with the atc? hate to buy a new machine just to add an atc
Thank you, that really is awsome!
Hi! What CAM software do you use when making your g code? Is there any video of how to set up a CAM software to use this setup easy every time? Thanks for the video! Really great information!
I, personally, use CarvoCo as my CAD software, but as far as the Masso goes, the CAM software is actually firmware built directly into the Masso G3 controller.
Will the ATC work with your current water cooled spindles or does it require a whole new setup? Any ballpark on price so I can start stashing my allowance away? Will the collets that hold each bit be a separate purchase or come in a kit?
They speculated about price on their facebook group and mentioned that the ATC spindle motor is different so as to fit the ATC.
Its a new system, although they seem to offer fair deals on upgrading equipment. They just released the ATC system. Watch their newest video. They explain it in far greater detail, and link the site which covers even more details.
Is it possible to have the gantry move forward, Y direction, after it grabs the tool for those of us who don't have enough Z clearance to run over the top of the tool holders once the bit is in the spindle? In other words, grab tool, raise up to clear rack, move in away from rack, move to bit setter, move back in Y, then probe Z on the setter, etc.
The next rack idea I’ll be working on is the more traditional fork style rack which holds the tools and you move the spindle horizontally to remove the tool after locking it in the spindle.
One huge advantage to that is larger tool diameters, like panel edging bits, or surfacing 'fly cuuters'.@@PwnCNC
Nice Video!
At the end of the video, are you using the scrap block to hold it up so when you turn it off, it doesn't drop? I saw a video that showed set screws that can be tightened to stop the drop. But my question is, is there a way to tell the masso, that cutting where your tooler is located is out of bounds and not cut over there or do you just always zero when homing to tell it not to go past zero?
once you find the distance between 2 tool sockets it should be the same distance between the rest of the tool slots
Thank you for the video. I contacted onefinity in February this year and asked about atc, they said they not included yet. Great to see that the option will be available hopefully by next year. I wanted to ask, would surfacing bits that are 2~3 inches be supported? Can the 80mm spindle run the 3 inch surfacing bit? I am guessing the 2inch ones should not be an issue. Most of my work is surfacing, if the cnc can do that and have an atc, I would definitely consider buying the cnc and getting it shipped to Pakistan.
Question, I bought a spindle 80mm 110v. and it’s causing my outlet to trip, I do have a 20amp outlet with a 20amp main breaker but still trips the GFCI outlet. Any suggestions?
VFD's are not compatible with GFCI outlets. It's ok to have a GFCI breaker, but the power draw is to much to fast for the outlets. Please replace the GFCI outlet with a standard outlet after confirming your breaker is GFCI compliant.
Thank you! @@PwnCNC
Any early information on the upgrade path you mentioned?
I've just finished our upgrade-path documentation and the team is reviewing it. We hope to have it reviewed/edited and ready for release next week.
Do you lose any cut area on your 1f?
Yes, our tool racks here take approximately 2.5" of capacity. I chose to run the tools along the Y which removes 2.5" of X capacity but still allows me to tile if necessary. Some have run the tools along the Y which lets them keep their X capacity.
We are working on a movable tool rack which would fix this issue but even that solution will come with pluses and minuses.
Awesome products. Wish millright would come out with some upgrades ...
The newest Mill Right machines are coming with Masso controllers. And stay tuned for next-year's "big project" ;-)
Meanwhile we are making steps towards a wonderful ecosystem. Our 80mm Spindle Mount is compatible with Mill Right's Mega-V... at least my particular machine. I believe most of their machines use the same Z carriage, so it should be compatible with most. If not we are willing to work with you to get the perfect adapter plate which will let you install our 80mm spindle mount onto your machine.
When will this product be released?
We are planning to start accepting ATC pre-orders on our website on or around Black Friday.
How tied to Onefinity hardware is this ATC System, as opposed to let's say a home built Mach4 setup?
Hello, We're designing our ATC System to not be tied to any one particular machine or brand. The trouble will be if the CNC controller can support ATC's. If it can then we'll need to research how to wire an ATC into it for control. All of our research at this point has been focused on Masso controllers, but we are creating a list of other ATC-Capable controllers which we'll purchase and document properly.
Out of the box for all un-researched controllers we can say confidently it will work as an MTC... with ATC functionality being researched.
Do you make a tool setter for Mach 3 Software.
The tool setter will work with any machine that supports one.
I'm not familiar with Mach 3, so don't know the details of hooking it up to function.
What size elite machine is that?
This is the Onefinity Elite Woodworker size. It's likely that more tools could be positioned onto larger size machines. Some on our team have the larger machines and we'll be releasing some more tool-rack placement posts to our forum.pwncnc.com soon
Will this work on Onefinity Blackbox, or the Elite only?
The Elite (ie Masso controller) will have full ATC capabilities. For non-Masso controllers we have fully flushed out MTC (Manual Tool Change) button which allows for bit-changing with a push of a button. ua-cam.com/video/IFOkSZM4JEs/v-deo.htmlsi=WwL_ld1HCy0J3keK
Is the ATC spindle 65 or 80mm?
The ATC is only available in 80mm and water-cooled... but in 1.5kw 110v and 2.2kw 220v variants.
Hey Daniel. Thanks for the Video! I have a question about the Masso controller. If I define tools 1-5, can I touch off all 5 tools with one command or do I have to manually touch off each tool?
As far as I know during the tool definition stage, is when you have access to the tool-setter operation. There is no way to say zero tool # 1-5 and go.
However once the tools are all zero'd then they do remember that value.
Nice! Can you use one of those auto-Z gadget?
We have the tool-setter on the front-left corner of the machine in the video; is that what you mean?
The ATC does not prevent you from using the XYZ blocks to find the corner of your stock material.
Yes, did not see it. Great work! @@PwnCNC
hey guys, i want to add this system with a Z axis gantry i bought a while ago, that way i dont loose volume
Daniel, another horrible video. Sorry, but you keep moving your fingers around and I can't tell what the heck you are touching. Also, when you have the ATC drop tool 1 and get tool 2, you don't tell us how in the heck to do that!! SOOOO frustrating!!! I know you're a really smart guy, but you have to do videos as if we have no idea about the ATC.
changing tools in the MDI screen is as easy as using the g-code commands. Tx is the tool command. so to change from whatever tool is in the system now to tool 2... enter T2.
But the controller won't actually execute that command until you also give it the M6 command.
So all-in-one... use T2M6 to go from say tool 1 to tool 2. to move from tool 2 back to tool 1, use T1M6
To understand more about how the Masso controller does tool changes... checkout their video here: ua-cam.com/video/x_DNhu06_mg/v-deo.htmlsi=DELM_4ne6D6wD1zw