Fixing the Kanto Elite Four
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- Today I'll be fixing the Kanto Elite Four teams with new pokemon, items, abilities, and moves! Join me as I run through these teams explaining my changes!
Thank you to my channel members:
Kai
HARDMODE LORE
While I can see why you chose the elemental punches for Hitmonchan, there's no way the moves are able to be used effectively without the physical/special split
I was about to comment the same thing, I think this might have accidentally been forgotten at the time. It would work well for a HGSS team though, imo.
Yeahhh Lowkey totally forgot about that, it’s nice to have the coverage tho
Yeah the physical special split hurts alot of the sets like shadow ball being physical and outrage being special
Came to make this comment
@@OKreationsthat coverage isn’t really helpful if the user only has base 35 special attack
The Marowak on the Agartha Team is such a unique and cool addition that fits with the storyline and her typing. Love this team lineup.
Glad to hear you liked it!
They should do more of the “previous gen elite four is next gen’s champion” like they did with Lance. It connects the story and games better
I agree it’s always a fun concept!
@@OKreations i agree! And my favourite thing like that or is similar is Iris in B2W2!
i mean it's a cool idea but like, very rarely do we get games where that's applicable
kanto -> johto and bw -> b2w2 are the only times it's really possible since that's the same league just a few years later and it happens both times
Well okay
Champion Karen: Houndoom(Ace) Umbreon Vilplume Gengar Slowbro Sableye(Lead)
Champion Drake: Salamance(Ace) Flygon Kingdra Magmortar Lucario Spiritomb(Lead)
Champion Lucian: Gallade(Ace) Alakazam Bronzong Maindabuzz Mienashu Gigalith(Lead)
It could’ve been done with Gens 4 to 5 because Cynthia is found in Unova
Will never understand why there is only one ghost line in generation one. When things like Ninetails, Marowak, or even Parasect exist.
Yeah ikr!
paracect is a planet, not a ghost
A planet? Or plant? The idea with parasect here is that it’s a very creepy origin, the mushroom on its back has taken over the bug body and is its host essentially making the bug dead
@OKreations that's messed up
Ghost and dragon were both supposed to be exceedingly rare in gen 1. They're pokemon of myth and as such they're kept pretty exclusive and hard to come across. This changed around gen 3-4ish when they realized pokemon is becoming a full on franchise and thus, type balance became more important
Something interesting to note is that Dewgong won't be able to utilize Hail as effectively because Blizzard can't become 100% accurate under it until Generation 4 onward.
Fun fact about the Kanto Elite 4, they have dual type specialities:
Lorelei is a Ice Specialist, but uses just as many water types
Bruno is a FIghting Expert, but is also uses rock/ground types. In Gen 3 it's ground types as in the rematch he evolves his 2 Onix into Steelix so keep their ground typing, but in the lets go games it's Rock type as he switches one of his Onix out for an Alolan Golem who is a Rock/Electic type in the rematches.
Agatha is supposed to be a Ghost Master but all her pokemon are actually Poison type.
Lance is a Dragon Tamer, but uses more flying types. In fact his champion team in the Johto games is a full team of flying types. It's why he's sometimes called Bird Keeper Lance.
I have also always thought that each Elite Member could use a 6th pokemon. No major trainer uses all 6 pokemon in the Kanto games except the final rival fight, but you would expect at least the strongest trainers in the land, the Elite 4, to also do the same.
Whilst you stated that you don't think any elite four member other than Lance should recieve a Kanto starter, I dissagree.
Blastoise is a perfect fit for Lorelei's team, acting as an aditional water type for her and matches the other shelled pokemon she uses Lapras, Slowbro, and Cloyster.
As Agatha's second type is supposed to be Poison type, I think another poison type would be great for her Team. In particular Veneusar is a great choise as it is not only another poison type, it's a grass type to add better coverage to her team, and it further alludes to ties between Agatha and Professor Oak who gives away Bulbasaur at the beginning of the game.
As for the other two ELite four I do think there is an option for an additional team member for each:
Bruno could use a Golem. Not only did he use an Alolan variation in Gen 7. this would also correct something very strange that happens with Gen 1. Unlike most pokemon in the original 150, Golem is never used by any trainer in the original Gen 1 games, not even a random hiker in victory road. This would be a chance for this trade only pokemon to be added to people's pokedex.
As for Lance I usually say take his Charizard from his Johto games but you already did that. So I guess could be to give him a second Dragonite, an homage to the fact Lance will eventually use 3 of them. In particular this second Dragonite could be more physically focused to make the most of Dragon Dance. Dragon Dance, Brick Break (for ice types), Earthquake (for Rock or Electric types ruining his flying types) and Hyper beam (since he's got to have at least 1 Hyper Beamining Dragonite somewhere)
I like your ideas!!!
Venusaur also fits Agatha due to being a bit creepy and unsettling, especially compared to the other starters
I agree with everything except with changing Blastoise's Hydro Pump.
I know Surf is more reliable but maaaan, If there's a pokemon were Hydro Pump is iconic it's Blastoise.
Also even tho Hydro Pump doesn't have the best accuracy it is still scary lmao
Not a big fan of removing the big stab moves either, they're too iconic. Shouldve kept both Flamethrower/Surf and Fire Blast/Hydro Pump. Venusaur with Giga Drain, Sunny Day, Solar Beam and Sludge Bomb/Earthquake would've been cool too.
Fair!
It would make so much more sense if Agatha and Lance were Poison and Flying type trainers
Kinda sucks that gen 1 only had a limited amount of Pokemon types and yet we got Lance and Agatha using more of a secondary typing. Even Brock and Giovanni aren’t very different since both use more of a Rock/ Ground combo
@@jtwatts7990 EXACTLY. Brock should’ve been a Ground type gym leader with Graveler as his ace, Giovanni should’ve been a Normal type gym leader with Snorlax as his ace, Koga should’ve been a Bug gym leader and Scyther could’ve been his ace. That way in Johto, even if Bugsy and Whitney stayed as Bug/Normal gym leaders respectively, their aces could’ve been swapped to Ariados or Forrestress and Miltank could’ve stayed as Whitney’s
@@SS4Luxraystrangely enough, Scyther is a Pokémon of Koga's in the anime. It appeared in a flashback of a filler character's badge collecting.
@@Magma-Idiot-2001 I think I remember what you’re talking about. Bugs fit the ninja aesthetic more anyway lol.
@@SS4Luxray True that, I would of disregarded his type as Leader just once to put Scyther in, it honestly works as a counter to the poison-type weaknesses somewhat.
My only question is, if no Ninetales on Agatha because it's too close to Blaine's, why give Lance a Charizard when the Champ can have one too? That'd be back-to-back Zards. I think it'd be interesting to see a Seadra (which could be replaced by Kingdra at the rematches) or something wild like a Porygon on Lance's team. But, as per usual, great video and great series!
Thanks for the suggestions! I think I’m okay with lances charizard because only a third of the time there will be 2 of them, and it’s on his Johto team. I like Seadra but like that’s Claire’s Mon right there ya know? I love the out of left field pick of porygon haha!
@@OKreations I think the problem is that Charizard is in both cases accompanied with the Gyarados, making the fights quite similar. But difficult to find something good given the limitations. Perhaps a Tauros with hyper beam? Feel like Lance's thing above anything else is power, considering which might make it an alright fit. Also How about a Blaine Porygon though?
@@younghegelian1I literally had the same thought and was checking to see if anyone else did too.
Jynx should definitely keep Lovely Kiss. it’s nearly a signature move for Jynx. Also its better to get off a 75% speedy sleep than to have to endure hits with its paper thin defense and nonexistent HP
My thoughts exactly. Also, it's not _nearly_ her signature move; it _is_ her signature move.
Ya was gonna say, lovely kiss is what we all remember about jynx.
I really like the visuals in your video, the colors, the backgrounds and the animations, they look pretty cool
Thanks dood I appreciate that a lot!
Bruh I can’t believe some of the original move sets from the game. What were those e4 members thinking 🤦♂️
Ikr!
I think they made it easier to boost the rematch. Rematch moveset are a little better and more challenging
I have a few points I don't necessarily agree with.
For Lorelei's Lapras, why go through the trouble of putting a second weather effect on her team and then not even giving her a Water type move to make use of it? I would change it to Hail and give her Blizzard instead, and change Thunder to Thunderbolt or Surf.
For Bruno's Hitmonchan, replacing Foresight with Mind Reader means taking away its only way to hit Ghost types while not even having a better effect in the first place.
And finally for Lance instead of Thrash I'd give Gyarados Body Slam, which is a tutor move it learns. It means he has a chance of paralyzing the opponent while not having to worry about Confusion. The only difference is 5 base power.
The idea with Lapras not having Surf or something was because it’s the Ice leader, so I prioritized the ice move, but I also understand the frustration there, I wanted to go all out and see what would happen with a Thunder there just to change things up.
For the hitmonchan, I get not being able to hit ghost types, but other mons on his team can so I think it’s fine especially when there’s only one ghost type in Kanto.
And yeah I like the Body Slam that’s a fun concept!
For cover you can always give hitmonchan hidden power ghost or secret power as a move
This was great! There's just three things I would've done for these teams, personally
1) More held items: I liked how Agatha had two Pokemon with held items, and I think all of the elite four and Blue should've have had two Pokemon with held items. It's one thing I've wished to see more of in main story Pokemon is using held items and for the Elite four and champion it makes sense for them to start using a few more items than regular trainers as it helps solidify why they are at the top because they aren't solely relying on type matchups and coverage.
2) Increase Blue's levels: This is moreso to solidify his narrative skill of being a strong trainer who can level up Pokemon quickly (referenced in both the manga and recently Pokemon Masters EX with the Neo Champion Event) and take a nod to his Pokemon Generations episode where it showed him taking the Elite Four down without overtly struggling. I think his team being from 60-65 would show that off without being an impossible feat
3) Swap out Return on Pidgeot: Return is great but moreso for HGSS Blue who has learned to bond with his Pokemon more instead of purely focusing on technical skill. I think double-edge might work well as a substitute for a normal time move.
I’m glad you enjoyed! I like the idea of more held items and swapping return, I think this makes sense to do and the reasoning is sound, I think for me the higher level pokemon on blue is a nice idea overall, but it might get too crazy if you go overboard, I think bumping a level or two wouldn’t go too crazy. Thanks for the feedback!
Increasing Blue's level is nice in theory, but in practice it takes longer to grind before the E4 then if you train to his level the rest of the E4 will be too easy
About blue’s pidgeot with return, the narrative reason he lost is because he didn’t love his Pokémon enough, so I’d replace it with something like double-edge or something
i would replace rhydon for nidoking, because it iconic
@@billisurango7076 nidoking is like THE giovanni Pokemon
Great point
@@JDLong006 not really.
At least Double-Edge is tutorable at the end of Victory Road in FRLG, right?
it feels weird having lapras get rain dance yet he has no water moves even though that would give a boost to water type attacks
Fair! I think I just prioritized the ice move over the water because it’s the ice leader
It also reduces the damage from fire mons which most players are going to have
Rain Dance was also used to weaken Fire-Type attacks, which is 1 of the Ice-Type's weaknesses
@@OKreationsyes but one thunder from raichu, jolteon, or zapdos takes it out, lol
@@koltensmith3974 a super effective move can take out ANY pokemon..that's why not as much effort was in protecting from that, just making sure you can't use 1 mon against their full team; people would use thunder regardless if there wasn't rain.
I would love to see the gym/e4 changes you make as a rom hack. Id beore thqn happy to show you how to do gen3 edits
I’ve been working on one for heartgold, so I’m gonna try to learn how to do it for fire red so I can make it! I’ll let you know if I need help!
@@OKreations FrLg and RSE are super easy if you have the right program
@@OKreations wow, thats intersting! A gen 4 Rom hack! I plan to make both gen 4 and gen 5 Rom hacks! And maybeeee gen 3.
keeping onix was a bold move but with your logic applying poliwrath and its importance with chuck you did a good job
Yeah I think it’s a fun thing to keep especially because I’ll be making it a steelix for the Johto E4
I am loving this series - please keep going
Will do!
Here are some type change suggestions for a rom hack:
Blastoise: Water/Steel
Arbok: Poison/Dark
Hypno: Psychic/Dark
Marowak: Ground/Ghost
Seadra: Water/Dragon
For Gen 2:
Ampharos: Electric/Dragon
Sudowoodo: Rock/Fighting
Love all of these, what’s the reasoning behind part fighting sudo?
@@OKreations Hitmontop and Heracross are the only fully evolved fighting types in Gen 2. Sudowoodo looks like it could deliver a hefty punch.
Forgot heracross! But nice!
@@AZ-697 I've never thought about (fake) trees punching people? but ig with the balls for hands it could probably punch good..but unless they changed it's personality and origins fighting makes no sense imo; in the anime at least it's almost portrayed as weak or lacking a fighting spirit fully, they'd rather hide and pretend to be trees which doesn't scream fighting type!
What about a ditto for Agatha? It's got that body snatcher vibe 🤔
Interesting idea! You never see Dittos in trainer battles maybe except for like 1 scientist, might’ve been a fun concept
Fun fact about Fighting type moves: Pincir is the only Gen 1 pokemon (using Gen 3 data) that learns the most fighting moves and isn't a fighting type itself. It outclasses Onix in all stats but defense.
Just throwing it out there.
Great video. Even loved the Lorelei segment because it felt so black and white elite four rematch like it’s a good challenged! Great video!
Thanks I appreciate the feedback!
amazing video man! cant wait for the johto video!!
the romhack would be awesome, should add phys/spec split
That would be so cool!
while there a bit of changes (in terms of movesets and items), overall I love the changes you made to the elite four and would love to see a enhancement romhack of it 👍. Maybe not buffing mons, but changing trainer teams to be a little more chalenging and overall more fun.
(ironically I was revisiting my firered save a couple days before you made this video).
Amazing sounds great!
I personally think 1 or 2 of the elite fours roster should have MAX stats the After you defeat em 2nd Time personally.
In the anime, Brock thought Bruno had some secret training technique that was key to his success. Giving him something similar in game would be a fun reference. I am thinking about giving several of his Pokemon Hidden Power. If given a proper maxes out Hidden Power, Bruno can overcome his Pokémon's shallow move pool and become a memorable threat. I am thinking about swapping out Primeape's Rock Slide with Hidden Power Bug, Hitmonlee's Meditate with Hidden Power Flying and Machamp's Double Edge with Hidden Power Ghost. Hidden Power Bug allows Primeape to effectively hit the many Psychic type Pokemon and some Grass types. Hidden Power Flying allows Hitmonlee be the main anti Grass and Bug type Pokémon on his team. Finally, Hidden Power Ghost allows Machamp to counter Pyschics and Gengar.
I think the hidden power idea could be good, but I think it’s a step above the difficulty I’m trying to have on these teams
*Lot's of Text Warning*
Great video like always, here's some changes that I personally would do:
-I don't have anything to say about Lorelei
-I would replace Hitmonchan thunder punch with Thief to have a counter agains't psychic types, ice punch already covers flying and grass which resist fighting.
-Really liked what you did with Agatha but I think Parasect could work, considering you're giving some pokemons Toxic, parasect could stall with Protect a toxic of his own, maybe set up light screen which will be very useful and thief to steal the player item.
-About Lance, Personally feel like Charizard a starter pokemon doesn't fit here.. I would replace it with seadra having Dragon Breath, Ice Beam, Hidden Power Fire (to hit ice types) and Smoke screen.. With the Poison Point ability.
-About the Rival, I think Pidgeot fly fits so well considering he's a trainer that has been going across the region like us but it gives me mixed feeling cuz it's so easy to exploit a 2 turns move... and I keep this opinion about Arcanine dig which could be replaced with Iron Tail to counter rock types that might be packing Earthquake... for charizard, again fly's very exploitable.
I like your idea about parasect! Also adding to the moveset spore would be pretty fantastic haha!
Fair enough on the 2 turn moves! I mainly chose fly because they are usually stuck with wing attack which isn’t really that much damage, but I could see fly being exploitable for sure
i think all of lance's pokemon should have hyper beam. that is basically his gimmick since gen 1. hit hard...really hard.
Think for fun, Blue's starter SHOULD have the elemental Hyper Beam move, just as an added surprise, so you see it use Flame-thrower, almost kills you then BOOM Blast Burn!
Ya gotta give Hydro Pump to Blastoise man, it’s iconic. 😂 Love these videos
Fair enough! Thanks haha
I think a nice change to Agatha would be to replace the second Gengar and the Haunter with Hypno and Marowak. Instead of the Haunter and Arbok like you proposed. Arbok really fits the spooky vibe that Agatha is trying to go with, and I see no reason to keep a second Gengar. It adds more team variety and builds up to her more powerful Gengar so much better.
For Lance, I really dislike the idea of the last e4 member and FUTURE CHAMPION having an unevolved Pokémon. Its better to give him something more draconic in nature. I thought about Nidoking/Queen, Rhydon, and Kangaskhan, but since Giovanni uses all those Pokémon, it would be kinda repetitive.
How about Scyther? It fits the draconic theme well enough, it gets almost ZERO usage from trainers, and it leaves Lance and the entire e4 with no repeats.
Just an idea, overall I really like the rest of the changes, would love to see this series continued. You earned yourself a sub :)
Thanks for the feedback and the sub! Yeah I get keeping arbok and replacing gengar, I just wanted her team to have at least two actual ghost type pokemon on it, and Scyther is a fun out of left field option! I do think he’s much more of a threat in early game with less fully evolved options (a la Bugsy) but I like the idea!
Taking into consideration Tentacruels dex entry, that also fits perfectly in line with Agatha. I would personally replace her Hypno, since Koga didn't have Tentacruel so that would prevent overlap.
For Lances Team, consider Dragonbreath over Outrage on Dragonair and replacing Thunderwave with Blizzard.
Dragonbreath is an egg move and has a chance of inflicting Paralysis anyways and Blizzard is coverage with a chance to freeze. The stats on the pokemon are already underwhelming by that level, so less stall but more risk is probably more interesting for the player's challenge.
You know what would be fun - if they post-actively upgraded original gb/gba games for the virtual consoles. Like fixing the bugs, adding new types and special split. And also adding regional variants and evolutions. They could just give us both files and have a setting in Virtual Console to enable either original version of the game or an upgrade.
Just by adding that - Lorelei would have access to Sandslash, Ninetales and Mr. Rime, Bruno could get Hitmontop, Sirfetch'd and Tauros, Agatha could get Marowak and Annihilape. But could also replace some of her Poison types with more sinister Galarian Slowbro/Slowking or additional Dark types like Persian or Muk or maybe a reference to her sister/cousin Bertha with Rhyperior. And obviously Lance could get his Lets Go additions like Exeggutor and Seadra/Kingdra.
This wouldn't be as painful as badly ported games like BDSP, but wouldn't require full time remake like ORAS.
This could work even better for Johto games, where Will would get access to Farigiraf and Wyrdeer, Bruno could still use other fighting mons, Koga would get Clodsire, Sneasler and Yanmega, and Karen would get Honchkrow, Overqwil and Weavile, and then Lance could also utilise Pokemon like Ampharos. And that's if we don't include Pokemon like Paradoxes. Because Bruno with Great Tusk would slay, and Lance getting at least one dino - would actually make him a proper dragon master.
Also similar concept would be to use the original non-regional Pokemon as reference to those regional forms. Similar to Lance using Seadra in LGPE. This way we could give Bruno Tauros-K or Farferch'd-K as a reference to the Galarian/Paldean forms - instead of letting him use Onixes. would also make some plot sense for Agatha to use Marowak as well, as just in Kanto that Pokemon is connected with an actual ghost.
I get that Charizard is iconic on lance's team but it would be weird to battle two Charizard if you take venusaur as your starter. There are 3 options which are not as solid but could be used - Arbok, kangaskhan and seadra.
Arbok because they have a dragon type egg group and it would not be used on Agatha's team
- Seadra because he uses one in let's go and he gets a kingdra in the PWT
- Kangaskhan be he used it in the stadium games
Also if you struggle making movests of Pokemon in the gen 3 games, you could refer to battle factory Pokemon moveset database on smogon
Fun idea! I’m personally not a fan of throwing the seadra line on Lances team because that takes away from Clair
@@OKreationsbut why I’m pretty sure Clair is lances cousin if I remember the lore correctly.
Yes I’d love to see a rom hack of this!
My updated Elite 4 would incorporate all starters. I would also buff up Lance since he’s originally supposed to be the “final boss” until the surprise Rival fight. Here’s my version:
Lorelai
Dewgong
Blastoise
Jynx
Cloyster
Lapras
Bruno
Primeape
Pooliwrath
Hitmonchan
Hitmonlee
Machamp
Agatha
Haunter
Venusaur
Weezing
Arbok
Gengar
Lance
Gyarados
Charizard
Aerodactyl
Dragonite
Dragonite
Dragonite
jynx is so under rated due to its design, I remember sweeping the majority of kanto including elite 4 with the traded jynx and have loved it since, amazing offensive typing and stats
The difference I noticed most is how Blue and elite four's pokemon's levels for FireRed and LeafGreen are 2 levels lower then what they are in original Red and Blue.
Also being that Lance was the Champion like 2 mins ago before we rolled through the door and Blue/Gary beat him. He should have had a 6th team member added imo. Maybe a ….. Seadra or even a Kingdra if available as a nod to his cousin Claire?
I don’t necessarily agree, I think at this stage, the champion wasn’t a very defined role, so I think it’s fine as is for balance purposes, plus he could’ve just removed one of his mons because of that, Kingdra wouldn’t have been an option here but Seadra could’ve been cool!
@@OKreations Yeah, maybe you’re right man.
Love the idea!
Lorelei’s team:
Mr. Rime
Mamoswine
Alolan Sandslash
Alolan Ninetails
Lapras
Bruno’s team:
Hitmonchan
Hitmonlee
Sirfetch’d
Paldean Tauros
Machamp
Agatha’s team:
Cursola
Alolan Marowak
Annihilape
Mismagius
Gengar
Lance’s team:
Gyarados
Alolan Exeggutor
Charizard
Kingdra
Dragonite
I’m limiting to just Kanto & Johto, but I am including the Alolan Galarian & Paldean species of Pokemon from those regions, as well as evolved forms of Kanto & Johto Pokemon from other regions.
That would be cool if Johto remakes were made today!
Pidgeot, use Return!
*1 damaged*
Blue:what?!?!????!?!?
Pidgeot:you forgot to do your daily clean up for my pokeball, so now i hate you
Blue:ok ill do it now
Pidgeot:*its 1000x super effective, stab, crit, plus 6 atack set up,x atack, mega evolved*
~Venosaur fainted~
Cool video. You seem to hate all water/flying type moves that aren't Surf/Fly. Also, Executor losing Egg Bomb is like taking Attract away from Jynx. I like the Rain Dance/Thunder idea on Lapras, but I think ditching Confuse Ray for Hydro Pump makes a tank like that more of a threat with two OP stabs
Fair comments! Thanks for the feedback. I think looking back my love for surf is more warranted than fly haha
The only change I'm gonna make, and this is by preference.
And I do think this is why Cynthia is so nostalgic compared to the first three. The champion should be fucking hard lmao.
I would buff every pokemon up by 2 or 3 levels, with the starter being lvl 68. I deadass might even push it to 70 so that it's up there with legendaries. But 68 seems like a good calibration. I remember playing leafgreen all the way through and Champion Green is fairly disappointing. And it might be because having a Charizard with good move coverage and stats kinda washes the whole team. Which is crazy because people see charmander as the hardest starter.
Imo raising the levels doesn’t really matter here because then the player technically has more access to higher level moves if there are any more
@OKreations By technicalities, I would be more inclined to agree. But struggling to beat the elite four a few times and then beating the champion on the first try. Earnestly some of them feel like bigger threats if only scaled to be weaker. Regardless I do recognize that gen 1 is LIMITED in several ways. That's just my opinion and experience.
Hail doesn’t improve Blizzard’s accuracy until Gen 4, so might want to revamp the Dewgong moveset by switching Blizzard to Ice Beam.
Good call
Weird to read, but I think Hail doesn't make Blizzard 100% accuarated in Gen III
Oh crap you’re totally right!
These like 'redesign challenges' always make me wonder things like. What if you gave someone more or less carte blanche to go back over the first 3(4?) generations of Pokemon and redesign them from more or less the ground up with things later gens changed in mind. Like, making say, gen 1 with the idea of 'oh okay we need to make sure that special-split is accounted for, and the physical/special move split is accounted for' and taking into mind things like Dark/Steel/Fairy types being added, etc.
I would say like, have to keep the pokemon's art/pixel art the same, have to keep the name the same, and evolutionary lines cannot change. But you can change like, base stats to *whatever*, readjust typings(though I think the primary typing should not be able to change, only the secondary/adding a secondary or even removing one), and change things like 'how' a Pokemon evolves, or _when_ a pokemon evolves. So for example instead of needing to get your dragonair to like, 60 or whatever it is, maybe only 50 instead. Or you don't need to trade kadabra and just need to level it up at a level greater than, like, 30, while it's holding a bent spoon. Stuff like that, you know?
Just really wonder what someone could do with that and how good/bad it would be.
Bruno’s hitmonchan having the elemental punches in fire red and leaf green sounds good on paper. But then you remember the physical/special split hasn’t happened yet by those games so it actually makes him weaker.
I think it's OK or recommended to have more than 1 psychic pokemon(move) on champion's team. Eggsecutor should have psychic.
I think it's iconic for Lance's Dragon pokemon to have Ice Beam. One of the Dragonair's or Dragonite.
Also, I like how you struggled to keep everything Gen 1/3, so I don't think changing pokemon's type makes much sense here, even though it might look/feel good. If you allow this, then the whole thing breaks down I think, with moves being taught out of pokemon's moveset etc
I think for Agatha if possible it'd be nice to have paralysis & substitute.
I like the rest of the changes you made. It'd be even more fun to watch these in action with good ai. Thanks!
Fair feedback thanks so much! I like the Agatha ideas. Did I change a Pokémon’s type here? I don’t think I did right?
I do not think Lance was handled right because the Lance is not like other dragon users. He values raw power and his team reflects that. I understand not liking Hyper Beam as a concept but Lance LOVES the move. Really the problem with it is that after gen 1 it lost its great design of high risk-high reward and just became a mess but keeping with the spirit of Lance means finding ways to make Hyper Beam work. He is also straightforward, so status conditions are also off the table as he wants honest fights and overwhelms opponents with superior Pokémon. So Hyper Beam has to go back on all of his Pokémon and lose the T-waves since he doesn't play that game. He uses buffs for sure, so D-Dance is awesome.
Gyarados loses Twister for Earthquake and Thrash for Hyper Beam, Dragonair needs to lose T-Wave for D-Dance, Charizard loses Fly for Hyper Beam, and Dragonite loses T-Wave for Hyper Beam. Unfortunately, Roost isn't a thing until gen 4 as that would be right up Lance's alley. He is never going to be the most threatening trainer because of his built-in flaws but he does work for what he is, a penultimate boss who will wipe you out if you aren't prepared for a scrap.
So...are you going to do the Round 2 for the FRLG Elite Four?
Never could beat Blue's Tyranitar...
I don’t think so! Next up is Johto!
I think you should do these improvements with the national dex and updated moves but each member goes to a different region to improve their team.
Could be fun but not quite what I was looking to do here, you should do that!
Fire Red Omega DX is a good rom hack with awesome fixes too, its hard but awesome.
Ooo I’ll have to check it out!
The reason hitmonchan didn't have the elemental punches was because all of brunos Kanto teams are pre psychical special split. They'll do like 5 damage
1:54 If this is for FRLG, Blizzard doesn't work with Hail this way in generation 3. Blizzard doesn't have the guaranteed hit in hail until generation 4.
My b!
In terms of Agatha, i think Tentacruel can work for her as well instead of Hypno. Tentacruel also has cruel in the name and according to the Pokedex in FireRed, the tentacles caus poison and pain, perfectly in line with Agatha's theming. You can also replace the first Gengar for Tentacruel.
Koga didn't have Tentacruel for example, so using Tentacruel over Hypno also prevents overlap with Sabrina.
I mean... you can potentially replace Exeggutor for Blue and replace Lance's Dragonair with said Exeggutor to reference the Alola games, where it is implied Alolan Exeggutor is actually the original.
I would keep Rock Tomb over Rock Slide for speed control, which is totally something Blue would do.
Why not give Blue's Charizard Steel Wing instead, so it doesn't overlap 3 moves with Lance's Charizard.
Yeah that’s a fair point with Exeggcutor that could’ve been interesting, and yeah I agree I should’ve made the movesets of the two charizards a bit different
Love these changes. Wish the vanilla game offered challenge like this
Thanks I appreciate it!
I'd love to see these videos for every regions gym leaders and elite four!
Glad to hear it! Johto coming soon! Wanting to do gen 6 next!
It's worth mentioning that for Lorelei the Blizzard+Hail combo does not work, as it didn't gain perfect accuracy in Hail until Gen 4
Yeah I appreciate that I totally missed that😩
I loved the work you did with the Elite Four and Blue Teams, I especially liked your version of Lance's team. From the Blue team, I like the Venusaur version 👍🏻✨
// In Pokémon Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee, Agatha have a Alolan Marowak ☠️
Thanks so much I’m glad you liked it! Yeah it’s a fun addition they made!
And then there’s the super boss! After catching all 150 Pokémon completing the Regional Pokédex, Prof. Oak will tell you to go challenge the Elite For again for a special boss battle, where he will be waiting to challenge you with his best team: Tauros, Exeggutor, Arcanine, Gyarados, Dragonite and “”the starter left behind fully evolved””
Isnt that like in the code for yellow but not actually available to play
How I would fix the Kanto Elite Four and Champion teams in FRLG:
Lorelei: Level 52 Dewgong, Level 51 Cloyster, Level 52 Slowbro, Level 51 Jynx, Level 54 Lapras
Bruno: Level 54 Onix, Level 53 Hitmonchan, Level 53 Hitmonlee, Level 54 Onix, Level 56 Machamp
Agatha: Level 54 Gengar, Level 54 Golbat, Level 56 Arbok, Level 53 Haunter, Level 58 Gengar
Lance: Level 58 Gyarados, Level 54 Dragonair, Level 55 Seadra, Level 58 Aerodactyl, Level 60 Dragonite
Blue's team can stay at Level 57-63. I changed my mind on Lance's team because it feels wrong that we never see a Level 55 Pokémon in the Elite Four. I replaced his second Dragonair with Seadra.
For Champion Gary/Blue, for his Pidgeot, I feel like TM 47 (Steel Wing) is better than Mirror move. It needs some coverage for the rock and Ice types, and steel wing is the only coverage move in the game Pidgeot can learn (TM or breeding) aside from Dark type special moves pre-physical and Special split, and Pidgeot’s Physical attack is better than Special so Steel wing is the best replacement. Mirror move is also just too situational and not reliable unlike Steel wing’s chance to boost defense + Feather dance lowering attack, which can make Pidgeot a nuisance to deal with if you aren’t prepared. Lastly, Pidgeot can’t learn Mirror Move until level 62 in Gen 3 and you made it’s level 60, so yeah, thats all I have to say.
My version of fixing Kanto FRLG / Let’s Go Elite 4 members & champion
Lorelei-Ice
1. Slowbro
2. Dewgong
3. Cloyster
4. Jynx
5. Lapras (ace)
Bruno-Fighting
1. Poliwrath
2. Hitmonchan
3. Hitmonlee
4. Primeape
5. Machap (ace)
Agatha-“Ghost” (really poison types)
1. Venomoth
2. Golbat
3. Arbok
4. Haunter
5. Gengar (ace)
Lance-Dragon
1. Seadra
2. Dragonair
3. Aerodactyl
4. Gyrados
5. Dragonite (ace)
Blue-Champion
(Honestly no changes for me)
Pidgeott, Gyrados, Arcanine, Exegutor, Rhydon, Alakazam, & the Kanto starter thats strong against yours. Plus Heracross & Tyranitar for rematches in FRLG
I love this! I just think Jynx needs lovely kiss- ONLY because it’s the Pokémon’s signature move.
Fair enough!
I liked the updates to E4 lineups
Can u also update their rematch teams(include Hoenn Pokemon please)
Also I'm looking forward to your ROMhack someday 😊
Sounds fun!
@@OKreations you can even add gym leader rematches which includes Johto & Hoenn Pokemon in their lineups 😅
@@OKreations it would be really interesting :D
Keep Lovely Kiss on Lorelai's Jynx. It's her signature move and it's pretty good. Also, for Lance's team, rather than Dragonair, I'd go with Kingdra, or at least Seadra. Having two members from the same line in a team just doesn't sit right with me. I can let it slide with Agatha since there aren't a lot of other options in Gen III, though. I never would have considered Marowak, by the way, but there is a 9-10% chance of encountering a Cubone on each floor of Pokémon Tower, so it fits. Nice job.
Thanks for the feedback I appreciate it! Yeah I understand that, knowing now that kingdra is on the rematch team, I would’ve considered it more, but like I really wanted to keep the kingdra line for Claire only
*Yells in Kylo Ren Voice* More MOAR!!!
I gotchu
This looks dope, cant wait to play this mod!
For me, Lorelei should have been purely a rain team instead of having both hail and rain. There is literally no benefit to setting up hail; Blizzard doesn't ignore accuracy check in it until Gen 4. Rain also has the benefit of nerfing fire attacks which all of Lorelei's team members would love.
Agatha fits the vibe of a Ghost OR Poison trainer so, personally, I would have kept the Arbok.
Hitmonchan in gen 3 cant really use the special moves well
Good point!
I woulda kept Lovely Kiss on Jynx, I would get rid of attract. Jynx putting something to speep, then following that with a fake tears or 2, would be strong. For Slowbro, I would rather it have something besides Amnesia. Besides STAB Surf, since all her other members have water moves, I would’ve given it Flamethrower.
Lastly, the elemental punches on hitmonchan are terrible, with its low special attack. Using a beautiful mormal type move or any other physical move will do more then the punches, even if they are supereffective.
I don’t really see why you would go for rain dance and thunder on Lapras.
The only things thunder would be useful against are flying and water types, but you already have ice coverage for flying types and water types are neutral… so all you are really doing is removing hail which could guarantee a blizzard hit (blizzard > ice beam) and making so an electric type enemy, which would almost definitely outspeed Lapras, ALSO benefits from a guaranteed thunder hit… or any other enemy that happens to know thunder.
So you gave Lapras a type coverage against pokémon it can beat in attrition anyway, while empowering enemies that have type advantages against it and making it so it is stuck using a less powerful ice type move… as the ace of the ice type Elite 4 member.
Seems stupid to me.
Honestly that’s a fair point, I think I saw that lapras could do thunder, and I wanted to use rain in some form on her team so I brought it just to say it could have it without thinking too much about the viability of it, not usually the way I do things tho
I don’t blame you for getting Sabrina and Kogha the wrong way round because I did the exact same thing on my playthrough of Kanto 😂😂😂
Yeah exactly thank you😂
I'm so sorry, the only part you fell short on was Gary/Blue. Hydro pump had Ben such a show stopper, in general 1 more than 3 for me. Aerial ace being taken off Charizard for fly, that means that he can't counter set up with evasion type moves. The main issue with him that you find is those interchangeable 3, the starter and substitute Pokémon, are required to have his mentality. His challenge isn't from being cautious, he hits you really really hard, or fails trying. You took player caution in the event of say a nuzlock vs the character of the trainer with both the assumed animals overlap and the Gen 1 and 2 character he portraits.
Everything else was good, except for Agatha as the unfortunate one where you made her overly less than she was, as being stuck with ghost type those poison lines were the closest that works. Marowak is a completely illogical choice for her as the reference in the Pokémon tower is that it's deceased, making the future regional variant unable to be argued. Agatha should have her team as is with annoying and tricky moves that made her the "Agatha lottery" for so many that didn't strictly overpower our Pokémon. For reference the only Pokémon that made sense on your list of replacements was hypno as the pokedex is absolutely on point with the creepy side of ghost type but it's still not quite as well placed as the poison types and should replace haunter if anything.
Nightmare on gengar is pointless - the second it attacks the opponent will wake up.
If anything, I would make the first gengar have substitute, nightmare, hypnosis, confuse ray (or protect), and give it leftovers. That way it can take advantage of nightmare ko-ing in 4 - 5 hits and stalls with recovery. Confuse ray can help it get set back up in case they wake up, or protect just for an additional turn of leftovers.
Also, since ghost is physical in gen 3 both gengars don't get to utilize their high special attack for it. Although, it's a decent choice for hypno since his attack and special attack are equal.
Wow I really like this idea, fun concept!
Ok, so the Kanto elite 4 as you said needs work. LOrelie, aside from moves was completely fine. But then with Bruno, he's gotta drop both those Onix, they are free kills. Give him Primeape AND Poliwrath. Agetha and Lance though need TYPE changes. I'll start Lance first. It was meme he's really a Flying-type elite 4 member, and in reality he is, so why not lean into it. he gets to keep Gyarados, Aerodactyl and Dragonite. But he needs to drop both Dragonairs for Charizard which is also Dragon-like and he's used it before, and replace the other with.... Scyther! Scyther was used by NOBODY and it would throw the player off balance expecting a gyarados lead.
Next we got Agatha. Tell me WHY make a Ghost-type Elite 4 with only 1 fully evolved Ghost-type? I'm changing her type, to NORMAL!
Her team is: Kangaskhan, Chansey, Clefable, Tauros and Snorlax as her ace!
we need a rom hack of this
i love these videos!!! this is exactly what i think the pkmn games need :D
Thanks so much glad you enjoyed!
So many rom hacks boost the difficulty to just... stupid amounts, like being mid 70's-80's by the end of the game, not even post game. It's nice to see that you didn't just go "Yeah, I'll add 10 levels to everything, that's fine."
I can appreciate a person making the hack, I've done some rom hacking myself, so I am aware of how long it takes, but often it just ends up being annoying if it's not done carefully.
Thanks for the feedback!
You gave the ice type elite four member’s signature mon rain dance instead of hail? Lol
Yuppp
Tbh I would have been okay giving each of the Elite Four a 6th Pokémon from not-Kanto to differentiate their iterations from Red/Blue, and as a sort of precursor to the Sevii Islands postgame.
I like this idea especially because you can visit sevii islands one two and three before this point, just think it takes away from the Kanto specialties
I like the vast majority of your gym and E4 changes but I’m a little disappointed by Agatha. Your replacement logic sounded great but then you chose to go with a Pokémon you had already added to another team, Hypno, and you switched out one of the unique Pokémon that existed in the team, Arbok. I think Golbat should be the one replaced, we just saw it in Koga’s team, and haven’t seen an Arbok yet, and it should be replaced with Parasect for all the reasons you mentioned. Especially since you’re taking away Golbat’s psychic coverage anyway.
Okay yeah I see your logic there, I like adding parasect would’ve been fun. I think the reason I wanted to keep Golbat was so that the Kanto E4 had a Golbat and the Johto E4 would have a crobat but like that’s not a very strong reason
I’d like to see you fix Kalos’ gym leaders and elite four next
Ooooo I’ll def do that after johto
Only thing I would say is that Fly wouldn’t be a good move for flying types. Because it’s a free switch for the player but love everything else
From what I saw a lot of changes are solid but a few need some improvements. Which it's mainly fixed for some in post game rematchs and even let's go games.
Starting off
Lorelei
Jynx signature ice punch being dropped for ice beam was a let down but it's fine due to more damage out put. Her leading with cloyster over dewgong and giving cloyster spikes was a great way to keep the player on their feet about hazards. Then going from spikes on the ground to hail falling from the sky is so cold (ha)
Slowbro not having a water move is off for me I would have at least gave it water pulse
Psychic
Yawn
Ice beam
So that even tho most of the weaknesses are special (dark, electric, grass) the ice beam can cover that will also having water pulse for stab with a 33% chance of confusion to spice things up.
I don't hate the lapas as the rematch gives lapas
Thunderbolt
Psychic
Surf
Sheer cold with a team mate setting up hail before it. I could be mistaken on the sheer cold it could be stab ice beam
Bruno
With let's go giving him a team of fighting types I would have given him the poliwrath. it be used as foreshadowing and story telling with Bruno and Chuck. As they trained together which is why they have poliwrath on the team.
Agatha
My main issue with her is Ghost is that they only have the Gengar line in gen 1. Let's go giving her Alolan Marowak was a great fix but not by much. As well as her rematch giving her gen 2's only ghost Misdrevous. Agatha could have still rocked a few poisons like Arbok for the scary factor, over having 2 Gengar. Yet adding hypno felt better too for the creepy factor behind it.
Lance
My only issue is safeguard should have stayed on Dragonair, dragon dance on Gyarados just speeds it up so I personally would drop thrash for maybe thunderbolt or bounce since it learns bounce as magikarp.
Gary
Charizard didn't need the fly. aerial ace is way better which I get their the bosses we don't wanna break them. But I never go for fly over aerial ace.
Adding shock wave to Alakazam is a nice touch. Pigeot with return is a nice reference to HGSS/GSC where it's in the move pull for stab. As well as the reference to when oak tells him the love he has for his pokemon isn't as strong as the players. Eggextor with sleep seed is a nasty we love it. Rhydon fix is great
Archnine I would have just dropped roar for bite. Venusaur is fine.
Blastoise ice beam of blizzard over skull bash.
Love this I appreciate the changes, the only thing that wouldn’t work for me is the fact that alolan marowak isn’t a thing yet, so I wouldn’t allow it within those bounds
4:05 On Lorelei:
Cloyster is a wall, and should act like one. I would use Spikes, Hail (for flavour more than anything), Ice Beam as it needs at least 1 damage move, and Explosion.
Dewgong should be a bulky good all around. Surf, Blizzard, Signal Beam for cover, and Rest with Chesto Berry for a simple and powerfull one use.
Slowbro should be the sweeper, Psychic, Surf, Yawn, Amnesia, with Leftovers for endurance.
Jynx should hit faster and hard, Psychic, Blizzard, and Fake Tears Sweet Kiss for Flavour.
Laprass is the key Pokemon, I would not go to Rain Dance, as she is a Hail user, not Rainy day, Surf, Psychic, Blizzard and Body Slam.
Personally I would give Blue/ rival Golem instead of Rhydon as a nod to Gary's Golem in the anime. Its ciriminal to me that noone in the e4 uses it! Rhydon to me is also Giovanni's signature mon. Great video anyway!
I like this change!
Give us the second part, the upgrade post sevii island
That would be sick!
I dunno if this is a hot take, but I strongly disagree with the notion of giving Lance a Charizard. I get the point, but I think it serves to detract from how special it'll feel to take down Blue's Charizard if he has it if you immediately took down another Charizard a few minutes ago.
Like, the man's the final boss, and Charizard is one of that final boss's potential aces. Imagine how weird it would feel if Bertha had a Garchomp about 10-15 minutes before you fight Cynthia and her own Garchomp. It'd just feel wrong in my eyes, both from a narrative and gameplay standpoint.
I'd opt for a Seadra, personally. His rematch team in FRLG has a Kingdra anyway, and it's called the "Dragon Pokemon" in the Pokedex, because the Japanese word for a seahorse translates to "dragon's child."
If you want a potential moveset and to avoid functional overlap with Gyarados, I'd give it Water Pulse, Dragonbreath (which it learns via breeding), Ice Beam, and Smokescreen. Ice Beam gives it ice coverage on a team distinctly lacking in it, Water Pulse and Dragonbreath give the potential for parafusion if luck is on Lance's side, and Smokescreen lowering accuracy can help be annoying or force a switch into another party member for an opportunity to set up paralysis or confusion again. Only real problem in Seadra having this niche is its Poison Point ability, but most Grass and Electric moves in Gen 3, especially ones you're likely to have in the endgame, don't make contact with the opponent, so you'd have to fight it suboptimally in order to use the poison to avert the possibility for paralysis. And even then... You're still poisoned. That could make a difference.
Yeah that’s a fair argument, I wanted to keep the seadra like specific to Claire, but at the same time knowing that it’s on the rematch team does make a difference for me
Only call-out is that Lance’s Pokemon (Gyarados, Dragonite, etc.) don’t get as much out of Dragon Dance if they’re using Dragon-type moves cause they were special in Gen 3
Troo, Hyper Beam go brrr
I feel like Dragon Dance on both Lances Dragonite and Blues Gyarados are waisted. Dragonite has Thunder Wave to get faster than its opponents and powering up a move like Fly is not worth it at all. I think it would suit better to give it something to deal with ice/water types.
And Blues Gyarados can only power up thrash but has no chance to live a single electric attack. Why not give it Earthquake? That would make it way more interesting to work beat it imo
That’s fair I like that change!
So about Hitmochan, I guess before the Physical/Special Split, maybe you should give it Rock Slide and Earthquake or Bulk Up.
I understand the changes in pokémon for Agatha's team, but her arbok was an absolute UNIT in the original games due to the wrap (I think) mechanics. So I would have kept it instead of marowak, which even though it is more iconic than hypno for ghost types, hypno just works better setting up hypnosis for the whole team, and having the dream eater gist.
Also, man blue really should have victrebeel instead of exegutor, I hate that three headed freak, and victrebeel is just a nice nod to the "I use the same pokémon as gym leaders" thing, like rhydon, alakazam and arcanine.
Yeah that makes sense, I think arbok would’ve been good to keep in the bounds of gen 1 mechanics, but I felt like it was a bit outclassed in gen 3. I was so close to replacing the exeggutor but I realized it’s everywhere on all of his teams and I lowkey wanna save Victreebel for Silver👀
5:30 in generation 3 the elemental punches are special attacks so hitmonchan won't be doing good damage with them
Yeahhhh big oversight on my part, my b!
But what if since Machamp had Guts that you gave it Facade instead 👀
And for Lance, there was a missed opportunity to give him Seadra which was added to his team in Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee
Steel Wing on Pidgeot would be interesting too, it can be learned by TM or it could be an egg move
Not bad ideas!
did you forget that golbat can now evolve into crowbat and there is also the option og lance having a kindra as it is a gen 2
Yeah but like they are both Johto Mons! I like the idea of including a few kanto mons here that can evolve to Johto mons for the Johto e4
How about giving Agatha's first gengar the final gengar's moveset and her ace gengar elemental punches. With gengar's amazing special attack it has potential to sweep a weakened team.
That’s a cool idea!
I think that Seadra could be a good option instead of Charizard, so player don't have to fight 2 Charizards in a row and also Seadra in gen2 evolves in Kingdra becoming a Dragon Type pokemon
That’s fair! I think in hindsight it makes sense, I just didn’t want to interfere with Claire’s Kingdra
I would opt for waterfall instead of surf on Gyarados. Especially the one with dragon dance!
This is for FRLG, so before the physical special split, so surf would do more damage here, totally disregard me giving the special elemental punches to Hitmonchan👀😂
the only thing I would change is having air cutter or keeping aerial ace for flying type pokemons. fly is too exploitable and while being higher base damage, it would do less damage overall than if they used aerial ace/air cutter 2 times in a row, but the pokemons added to the teams with no options were very cool
I think that makes total sense to me I didn’t think about that! Aerial ace is just better than air cutter in gen 3 imo so I would put that on everything