Isolated Precision: Cadillac’s ride & handling philosophy | LYRIQ Hoist Review
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Jordan takes a look at the suspension and undercarriage of an 2023 Cadillac LYRIQ - generously loaned to us by Adam and his team at Data Driven Automotive!
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#cadillac #lyriq #ev
Jordan does a great job articulating the design function as always. I give it Top marks in the presentation category!
We agree!
Jordan packs so much information into 25 minutes. Indicative of someone who knows their information backwards and forwards. Thank you!
the split/dual link is not for contact patch or camber control, but rather to move the kingpin axis outboard of the contract patch, essentially giving you a negative scrub radius. This helps with stability when braking hard because the vehicle will naturally correct for uneven grip. the same is applicable under hard acceleration.
Fascinating take on the engineering. I watched it all the way through with great interest. Thanks Jordan!
Glad you enjoyed it!
not really Fascinating , since the LYRIQ is using Legacy parts bin still.
@@markplott4820 Which parts are from a parts bin? This is a ground-up completely new platform with EV architecture that didn't previously exist.
That's smart engineering, lean design. Why spent money to create 100% new parts if there is no benefits, just ading cost. Tesla does this also, they use same parts on different models.
Nice job Munro team. Another video with depth no other channel would give.
Much appreciated!
You meant to say *could give*
Jordan, great articulating how the pieces fit together and your comparisons to some of the competition. BTW, nice to see the vehicle high enough on the lift for you to walk underneath. Always thinking you guys are going to bang your heads 🤕
It’s the real Jordan! 🤩
Production values on this video, a step above using arrows, descriptions of abbreviations and lighting in normally dark areas, made this much more enjoyable
Thanks. We have maximum effort for this one.
Lyriq’s outstanding spec:
1 meter long dual shielded motor grounding strap
Over engineering
@@ralanham76 Ford would use an 8 inch #12 wire.
Munro team evaluates too many cheap Tesla builds (but still overpriced). Now dude is surprised by how much Cadillac put on cost for better build quality.
Excellent! Thanks for detailed insight
My pleasure!
I bet this Caddy rides much better then a Tesla.
I’ve driven many Teslas and the Lyriq, and I daily drive a MYP, and the ride quality is night and day better in the Lyriq. Tesla has better software though.
The LYRIQ ride is INCREDIBLE!
Interesting tease at 12:33. Disconnected and lowered battery pack on a borrowed vehicle?
Great review. Very informative when presented in a non judgmental fashion.
Glad you liked it!
I have a Lyriq AWD Luxury 3.
The ride is smooth and quiet, but you can tell the shocks and suspension may be overtasked with weight.
Where's the MAGNETORHEOLOGICAL SHOCKS?
MAGNERIDE?
Hopefully the Lyriq V(?) will have Magneride?
Is that road salt already on the undercarriage of this vehicle ?
Have you already removed some protective shields from this vehicle ?
Appears lots of high voltage cables and their connectors exposed to the elements.
Even just inside the rear bumper, many electrical cables.
This complicated vehicle will be a nightmare to work on after a couple of winters in road salt.
Jordan - There has to be a real good reason for GM to spend that much $ on those ground straps X2. The EDM is electrically isolated from the body but I cannot think of a situation where you would need to flow that much currant X2. Any ground fault in the HV system should trip safety circuit(s) and isolate the battery.
Something that I'm noticing in the comments here is that many people have either not seen this video or the one that Carl did previously all the way through and are just simply going GM sucks. What Jordan does here is he shows that this is actually a fairly comprehensively engineered machine that has a rather elegantly engineered chassis underneath it. But, because the interior is somewhat lacking relative to others in the class, even if the others in the class may not have this kind of engineering going on beneath, they're automatically going oh it's GM it's got to be bad. This is a very well engineered car that as GM's first real foray into electric luxury vehicles is actually quite well done. Yes there are a few bits and pieces that are a bit overkill. Having said as much, so what? If it works well and the vehicle performs well as a result I'd rather have the over-engineered bits and pieces beneath me than have one that is the old GM way of being half-baked completely. I'll take a cheap dashboard and a good chassis over the other way around any day of the week.
gm LACK of Production & SALES are Indicative of POOR Quality & RELIABILITY .
gm has a DEMAND problem.
gm CUT its Expatiations for 400k in 2024 ( Alleged , we will beat TESLA) .
NOW in Q3 2023 gm LOWERING Guidance to only 100k in 2026.......lol.
you Did it MARY , you LIED. and it Matters.
At $59K the interior is right on price but the Ultium scaleable underpinning is state of for mass produced BEV.
Excellent Jordon. It would be ideal to invite one of the GM engineers to discuss their approach and thinking in design. Perhaps as a follow up video or a Podcast.
We have invited Engineers from GM and Mary herself to be on Munro Live but they all declined. 🤷🏻♂️
In fact they won't even lend us a press vehicle, thats why we are so grateful to Data Driven Automotive for lending us the LYRIQ to review!
Thank you Data Driven
@@MunroLive
Yet “Mary Led”
@@RayNLAAnd it mattered. 😂
I appreciate that Jordan tries to explain the purpose of the double ball joints, but the virtual ball joint of the suspension is from a _pivot axis_ perspective, not load support (@9:25) or tire contact patch (@9:40).
Munro live channel should get a laser pointer to show what parts and connections you are referring to. You can pick up a cat laser easy at a pet supply store.
Current for the main drive motor must flow through those ground cables. As a auto tech for 30 years ive seen grounds left off because someone didn't see the purpose of them. It causes current to flow through the axles and wheel bearing and destroies them fast.
Hey Sandy, I have a low reservation number ( in first 9400) Cybertruck that I may be willing to trade for your reservation number, if there is any way you can save me the complete battery pack that would allow me to use it like a mobile Powerpack for a future off grid house. This may not be possible as you may need, or want to, or not be able to do your analysis without destructing the parts. Hopefully, you would not have to tear apart the Cybertruck's structural battery pack, because you have already done a similar battery pack. I have a second Cybertruck that is in the first 16,000, so I will still have a CT soon. I also just preordered another CyberBeast, in case i want to upgrade in a few years.
I also wonder how many new Cybertrucks have been preordered since the Nov 30 show? My new reservation number is over seven million higher than the number one reservation number (~112744100). Could they possibly now have 7 million CT preorders?
It appears that there is an optional valve core on the inside of the LF wheel, is that correct and why?
I am seeing a lot of wire harnessprotections with open ends pointing upwards. Could be a disaster during winter when they get water filled and freezes.
I know nothing about engineering but all the wires and clips on the underside of the car seem concerning.
That is where all the modules and batteries are on EV's. Not all under the hood like old days.
They’ve obviously removed all of the covers for the shoot. I doubt those are just hanging out there normally.
The weight distribution on an EV is much better than ICE due to the lower center of gravity, so low placement has advantages.
Those grounding straps look like they could carry 500 Amps continuously all day without notable heating. The bracket at the rear they are bolted to looks like it can carry 50 Amps continuously without heating. It appears to be steel, spot welded to the member above it and painted. If there are voids in the mating of the bracket to the chassis above, the paint will act as an insulator. Whatever the function of those cables, the bracket is an unintentional fuse.
Who knows what is inside the cables. I doubt they're #00 Litz wire.
Great video Jordan, thanks! Hi Sandy!!
Thanks for watching!
Missing terms in the caption explanations:
1:43 - A-surface = "Class A surfaces" = visible exterior surfaces and all visible surfaces of see-touch & feel parts in interior
4:02 - IIHS = Insurance Institute for Highway Safety
13:35 - PET = polyethylene terephthalate (a very common kind of plastics)
13:37 - NVH = noise, vibration, harshness (problems related to acoustics and vibrations, often subjective)
Captions for the latter two were only added for the rear axle, missing they were also used at the front axle.
Everyone knows this stuff by now. No need to dumb it down in the video.
Any comments about the amount of salt in there? I’m assuming there’s a full cover enclosing that space so how do you clean the space? Why isn’t the cooling air (where I’m assuming that salt is coming from) redirected out of the space?
I have seen this on several cars.. the Aero full coverage trays under these cars.. allow some crap to get inside.. but it can never be washed out unless you would remove the tray first.
Caddy drivers get rid of them when the ashtrays get full, so they don't worry about salt rust.
This is Jonah explaining the underbelly of the whale......sorry Jordan explaining!😉
At 20:04 in the video, I notice what looks like a bolt or maybe a valve on the back of the wheel rim. I've never seen anything like this. Is there something special or unique about the wheels?
19:59 -20:26 (position approx at 7)
Good spotting. I've never seen it before, and I missed it.
It appears to be directly opposite the normal tire valve. I have no idea why it is there; all I can guess is that it is a tire pressure sensor that is bolted in separately from the valve; usually they are integrated with the valve (or strapped around the wheel); the inboard position would make the radio signal easier to pick up.
Was not expecting virtual pivot for both lower and upper in the front suspension ... I was expecting MacPherson there!
At first, it looked like they put the valve stems on the inside instead of the normal location. I later saw I was wrong. What are the silver studs on the inside of the wheels?
I know you guys try to stay neutral on your reviews, but it would be cool for you to give some sort of "engineering score" (maybe 0-100) on the overall execution of a vehicle to see how it rates to other brands. Honestly I'm just not impressed with what GM did with this Caddy and I would like to see how you guys really feel about it on a scale and how far down it is compared to something like a Tesla.
Please no "engineering score". Making compromises is at the heart of engineering itself and the benefits and drawbacks of each solution alternative will be highly subjective. For more subjective opinions: just let Sandy do the review videos with all his natural terms for his personal desire and aversion. He will say frankly, what he likes or not, even if it may be highly irrelevant for others.
They offer a 25 min review for free, yet the youngs are nowadays asking for a rating nd summarize everything.
I agree that would be great. But the tech is changing. So an A today would be a B in a few years. I wonder how Munro would adjust for that. But a “Doug Score” would be cool.
gm Score 0/ 100. FUD motors 0/100.
They might want to stay neutral, but they need to not offend potential customers.
Why ? Recently vehicles look like the vehicles have been driven through a salt / talcum powder bath 🛁. Be nice to give them a wash 1st 😊
Really neat I found this channel simoly by leaving the house 😂😅😅 your white Lightning truck with your UA-cam drove by my Lake Orion complex, I said hmmm whats that looked it up and have been hooked for hours great advertising yall.
Thanks!
I see way too many openings for dirt snow and salt slush to enter and cause corosion. 😮
GM is the last manufacturer to be worried about corrosion.
VERY confused by the odd bolt-like item mounted on the inside face/inner barrels of the wheels. What are those?!? TPMS sensors have always been part of the valve stem; I've never seen anything like it before. Time stamps: 8:08, 8:56, and 19:51, among others. Do please advise! Thanks for the great insights in your videos; keep up the excellent work.
p.s. Is it safe to presume the Lyriq is based on another GM platform, perhaps modified from an older ICE platform? If so, please feel free to share those insights going forward.
At 19:53 you can see: At the same location, there is also the actual valve on the outside of the rim. So this on the inside my just serve as a balance weight. Or as an alternative mounting position to put real valves on the inside of the rim instead of at the outside and keep the outside design nice and tidy with no optical disturbance by a valve.
Ultium is ground up BEV and scaleable for GM's full vehicle line.
It is probably a wheel weigbt.
A whole minute: talking about the production of a single windguide element at the active grille shutter shroud. FMPOV, this seal is not a "key element in the vehicle architecture".
But the following are important elements, but not mentioned by Jordan: This Lyriq has *6 front ultrasonic sensors* (see 0:23, 4 of them visible plus 1+1 more on the sides in the fenders) and a *nose camera* in the frontend of the vehicle (see center at 1:28) for a bird view when parking. In addition, there should be 3, 4 or 5 *radar sensors* : 2 in the back for cross traffic alert, and 1 or 2 or 3 in the front of the vehicle. They serve a input for bird view, automated parking and the driving automation systems. The impact (no pun intended) of these components, that Tesla has either dropped from Model 3/Y (parking sensors) or not yet introduced (nose camera) is likely way higher than that of how this seal is manfactured.
Munro is typically concerned more with structural design and manufacturing methods than how many of what device are included, because that's where their expertise can be of value to paying clients.
That is a weird gap but considering how many leaves the front of my CT6 collect this time of year it may work in lessening debris build up.
Who is going to fix these vehicles? Cost of repairs are astronomical now !
Tesla is developing its Optimus robots to do the repairs. Lots of monkeys will be unemployed in the future world as seen by fElon Musk..
gm , is HAPPY to Charge you for Unnecessary maintenance & repairs .
Tesla is pretty good at charging the customers too. I spent 50000 sek (5k) on my Model S in 2 years just after warranty was out. Rear taillight leaking water, MCU Eecm, rear camera oxidized, side camera and oxidized harness, tierod end only 80000kms, complete trunk latching mechaninism. There was still more stuff broken but I sold it. Bearing noise from AC fan, doorhandle, one DRL light.
You buy what you need no what you don’t need., you said it you need a bigger vehicle.
I think it would look a little more professional if you used an actual "flashlight" to view the vehicle instead of a cell phone. That's what teenagers use to find the condom they dropped in their dad's car.
Please, they don't use condoms, they get an abortion. It's the new morality.
Thanks Jordan! Those apparent grounding cables from the EDM to the cradle member are most curious. Those cables look thick enough to carry several hundred Amps current. It is almost as if the EDM inverter is the sole source of low voltage with no 12 Volt battery to handle surge loads. Did GM get rid of the flooded/AGM battery and replace it with some tiny battery just for closing the contactor in the main battery?
Partially answering my own question: the GM Service Technical College (GMSTC) drawings for the Lyriq appear to show a fairly average size 12 Volt battery under the hood. For now, the heavy ground cables on the EDM remain mysterious.
Possibly related: There is a service bulletin N232416980 from August 2023 which deals with 12 Volt battery drain. Apparently an incomplete OTA update causes issues in the serial gateway module. The fix requires temporarily disconnecting the 12 Volt battery and then reprogramming the gateway manually. The issue requires a dealer visit to have the fix applied.
A drive unit will absolutely not be used to convert high voltage to 12 volts. Even if someone did that, it would need positive and negative (ground) cables, not just ground.
@@brianb-p6586 Yes, of course you’d need a positive connection, but it might not be in the vicinity of the frame ground. There’s something going on with the EDM electronics package given there’s also the rather large plate heat exchanger. The question remains, why is it apparently necessary to be able to conduct several hundred Amps from the EDM to the cradle frame. Those conductors are way more massive than necessary to dissipate static charge which is apt to build in up on the drive components from tires with a high silicon content rubber compound.
I'm sure that an equally large +12 V cable connection to the same drive unit would be both clearly visible and mentioned by Jordan,@@wtmayhew, regardless of the location on the unit.
No 12 volt function would require substantial heat transfer compared to routine drive motor and inverter operation, and the heat exchanger might be a bit large, but is not exceptional.
I agree that the ground cable capacity is not related to static charge dissipation.
@@brianb-p6586 It is kind of maddening trying to find substantive technical information on line which is not pay walled for more than I want to pay for this discussion. None of the parts break downs on recycler web sites show the apparent ground cables. The best cost-free info is page six of the Lyriq Emergency Response Guide on GMSTC’s web site. What appear to be the two cables in question are highlighted in orange in the drawing, indicating they are part of the high voltage system. The Li ion battery is fully isolated from the chassis, so the cables are probably designed to take the fault current and blow the fuse in the high voltage battery if a crash creates a path which would energize the chassis.
At 8:45 what is the thing that looks like a valve stem on the inside of the wheel???
Car May have been driven through Plaster City. May not be salt.
waiting for the battery pack teardown on this Caddy...
Let's see what they say today,,, I don't trust these guys...!!!
Good presentation and explanation on the two ball joints is an excellent explanation. The two ground cables seem to be EMC radiated emission reduction stuff that needed to be low impedance between the two points.
Large two wires for reduces the impedance between the two points. Meaning they probably switch their inverter’s very quickly in order to gain the efficiency and increase range.
Or: the cable already exists in the parts bin...
@@brilanto It is the capacitive coupling between the motor wining and the motor case. HV battery pack is isolated with capacitive coupling between the chassis and the battery. Inverter produces high di/dt at the motor wining coupling the current through the motor case by capacitive coupling between motor wiring and motor case.
This current wants to return back to the battery pack which is the source of energy. Without this cable it will causes high RF emission that will not meet EMC standard requirement. Meaning they know what they are doing. Also, it reduces baring current that will prolong the motor life as well.
Why isn't the Cybertruck video up yet?
very audi like front suspension.
You and Casey from TFL would make such a cute couple. Keep up the good work 😊
Who?
SHOCK ABSORBER MOUNTING PLATE
Could an additional benefit be acting as an adaptor plate to make it easier to have different grades or styles of suspension system whilst not complicating the body-in-white?
Jordan wins for acronym bingo. My Audi had virtual ball front suspension, handled amazing especially on the highway, but half of the weight of the front end of the vehicle (as in the lyriq) sitis on one ball joint. I had to replace those ball joints on my audi regularly every 60k miles, almost a maintenance item, i wish we could have virtual ball without the weight of the vehicle sitting on the ball joints like that.
looks like thd car has been driven on salty roads
GM has some of the best ride-and-handling engineers; Blackwings, Camaro 1LE, Corvette, etc. They need to leverage this talent and make an EV that is actually fun-to-drive. They're not going to make better appliances than Tesla, so go for the driving performance/luxury market.
Corvette leaf springs at the rear axle was a solution from the "best ride-and-handling engineers"? Come on.
@@MooseOnEarth It worked and it was. Fact.
NOPE , Try TESLA PLAID S suspension TEAM, Designed by SpaceX.
@MooseOnEarth they used those transeverse leaf springs to beat the beat sports cars in the world on track for half a century, so yes, it worked brilliantly and elegantly.
@@markplott4820 Tesla's suspensions are a joke, as cheap as it comes. Like the rest of the car.
Jordan crushed it as always! Good Job
No doubt!
Was that the valve stem on the INSIDE of the wheel?
I noticed that too. Strange!
14:25 - that piece of foam after the wheel & windows before the battery… could that be to keep air moving, so the air can go into the windows, to help reduce drag & direct some remaining air to cool the battery through the holes?
After hearing about the piece of rubber before the wheel, to direct air, this seems to make perfect sense.
Thanks for the video! The bottom of this vehicle is open like that. There's no plastic cover over the entire bottomm
We removed the air shields so we can have a better look.
Continue to nerd out on the suspension design. I love it. Never have seen a double virtual ball. Trying to wrap my head around what resists torsion moments in that setup. Seems like one too many degrees of freedom?
Keep the animations!!!! They add a nice touch and help us dummies that sometimes don't quite know what you're talking about!
Those ground lines at the back! Seems like either a case of last minute constraints or “we have a way to meet our cost targets next year”. There is definitely a story there.
Crazy amazing how well Jordan walks us through the every complex under belly of a car. I could watch him talk about grass growing, he is so good! Keep up the great work Jordan
Wow, electrical and cooling lines look awfully exposed.
Great discussion of sprung vs. un-sprung weight and the impact on suspension performance!
Thanks Jordan! Lots of interesting insight here.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Those grounding cables in the rear are likely thick enough to prevent a sudden rise in voltage when the ECU experiences a sudden current impulse due to a magnetic field collapse.
I'm sure there's a good reason for the large grounding cables, GM did a nice job on this vehicle. Well engineered with few compromises.
what does gm do to prevent Thermal Runaway of battery pack ?
still using Dangerous pouch cell Li.
@@markplott4820 Every statement so far today just shows how dumb you are. We all know that already so you don't need to keep doing it.
@@markplott4820never heard of such in the Volt, Bolt EV, Hummer EV, Silverado EV...
I think he's talking about the early production Chinese BYD blade batterys.
Tesla Model S same front suspension layout, I know, Im working on mine now
I have OHLINS on my Tesla mod S .
@@markplott4820 way to go, I drove a P85+ that has staggered tyre sizes, coil springs, tuned dampers and i think neg camber...........noticeably better handling but hey you can steer the P85 on the throttle, ive sunroof delete so low c of g bloody good for a 2.2 ton machine, Ohlins must be genius, only have experience of Ohlins magic on sports bikes spent years saying waste of money then I rode one........Genius
@@markplott4820Ohlins come from the factory on Polestar and Volvo...
That's why I sold mine. It's to much money to be a DIY car for my taste.
Can you please suggest the best electric engine of all the EVs
Thanks for these interesting perspectives! 🙂
Our pleasure!
9:25 it's very interesting. I want know about this concept suspension more 😊
Neither front or rear suspension design is new or unique. Jordan's points are that the front suspension type is relatively expensive (compared to other front suspension types), and that the rear suspension construction is relatively inexpensive (for the type).
@@brianb-p6586the front is unique for mass produced vehicle.
@@normt430 double-joint lower control arms have been common for many years. Some vehicles have used double-joint upper control arms. Even if this is the first to use double joints for both upper and lower, there's nothing new about the design... but it's still a premium choice.
@@brianb-p6586 what mass produced vwhicle today uses double lower?
@normt430 BMWs, among others. They're the obvious answer, since they've had them for about 15 years; if you're thinking that BMWs are not "mass produced"... they punch those things out like Volkswagens.
Why all the excessive length screws everywhere?
Where's my laser-pointer gone? ;)
I like this guy, 4ball joints!!
horrible engineering
Nice job, very professional.
Thanks again guys! Enjoy your work.
Looks Like crap
Love my Lyriq!
Rocha? It's pronounced Roka in Spanish, not the English psudo-pronunciation Roucha is not canonical...
Many Portuguese Rocha’s in California pronounced in English with soft ch.
@@kennethtway9289 Character and charisma use ka pronunciation for cha... Rocha's can take their name back
What the heck is the thing on the inside of the wheel that looks like a nut? It can be seen ar 7:51
Balancing weight.
Very informative! I learned a lot!
Thanks
Thank you!
Don't know why or what made Chiff's in GM to... Ah, Never mind. It's all over again.
Slick Top on Heavy Steel Beams Punched and Welded like it's the 50's all over again.
But at the Back it's a .. light Japanese type of things. Padded.
Probably the Front Steel is a Tribute to UAW Labor contracts..
Thanks Jordan for the Tour
GM is not making money with this.... again.
💸
In summary…GM is still GM
Government Motors.
Lol, such subtlety in Jordan's thoughts on the "interesting" things he sees. Well done!
So much salt on these components ... Was there no chance for an underbody wash before?
This is Michigan, where the underbody wash contains road salt.
Who cares? Why does that matter?
it will buff out, no worries.......lol.
It’s likely not salt, but instead a powder they applied to the shiny parts to enable better 3D scanning.
I thought EV proponents emphasized a simplicity in propulsion design over ICE. I see many more potential failure points with coolant, oil, and electrical connectors. A road object could take out that rear motor heat exchanger.
Your ICE has 2000 more moving parts, so maybe don’t dwell on failure points.
the LYRIQ literally has Brackets that hold up more Brackets.......lol.
Crush zones? You know when a Tesla is on Autopilot and crashes into something killing the driver...that!
Salt already on the steel frame lol
gm is SALTY .......lol.
It may add as an insulator from external noise. Bet it’s part or how quiet it’s inside.
What’s the white compound that looks like it was sprayed all over the front end?
Salt used to melt road ice, snow
What is the liquid they spray on roads before snow?
Sodium chloride (salt), magnesium chloride, calcium chloride, calcium magnesium acetate and potassium acetate are chemicals used to prevent and remove snow and ice from roadways. VDOT uses liquid magnesium chloride, calcium chloride and sodium chloride for anti-icing and pre-treatment.
It’s most likely a powder they applied to enable better results from 3D scanning
I’m assuming the under tray was pulled off for the review: the amount of salt spray that’s up there that wouldn’t get washed off in the underspray car wash is concerning.
Reminds me of an old 76 Caddy eldorado convertible with the 500 engine. Poor overall packaging large gaps of "what can we put there ", wires and exposed cooler plate and ac compressor ($$$$) just waiting to get ripped open by road debris. The insistance of running wiing and modules in side the lr fender getting exposed to road salts, makes you wonder if they ever learnt anything (fuel control frame module Ford).
its too bad the LYRIQ failed the Moose test........lol.
Not even tested. Stop making sh/t up!
MUNRO live - heres hoping that by 2025 we start to use Spheres as wheels , as Replacement for horse & Buggy wheels.
Spheres are better to Roll on, and can move in ANY Direction.
🤣😅🙃
First! 💪