STOCK 1600 or 1776 still the most reliable VW air cooled flat 4 engine ?

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  • Опубліковано 3 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 77

  • @rbrtgrdn
    @rbrtgrdn Рік тому +16

    Thickness at the cylinder tops:
    The new 92 mm from AA (4.55 mm)
    Modern machine-in 88 mm (4.5 mm)
    Stock 85.5 mm (4.15 mm)
    Modern 90.5 mm (3.75 mm)
    94s mm (3.55 mm)
    87 mm slip-ins (3.4 mm)
    Old 90.5 mm (3.25)
    Old 92 mm (3.0 mm)
    88 mm slip-ins (2.9 mm)
    (Credit to jpaull)

    • @stanfordkoch1271
      @stanfordkoch1271 10 місяців тому +2

      I build a 1835cc for my beetle and buss with the newer AA 92mm pistons, the thicker ones

    • @WizardSoon
      @WizardSoon 6 місяців тому +1

      88mm slips in for 1584cc case??

  • @desert4seat
    @desert4seat Місяць тому +1

    20 years ago I had a 1776 built for an offroad car. It never saw an easy mile. We hammered that thing and it’s still running good. 😂😂😂.

  • @bash5552
    @bash5552 Рік тому +3

    Best engine I ever built was a 1776 (built in early 90's)
    VW AS21 FI case, first cut on all
    -shuffle pinned on all mains
    -already had been setup for 10mm studs
    -barrel holes cut for the following:
    ---the Mahle barrels, on the side that was inserted into the case, that 'thickwall' was trimmed on a lathe to half it's thickness, this allows for correct locating (in the case) but keeps the case from being opened up more than needed. This trick can be done on any thickwall cylinders
    -rear main seal and rear cam seal drainbacks opened up a bit
    Rebuilt 69mm cw crank from Bugpack, first cut on all
    Mahle/Cima 90.5mm barrels/pistons
    Total Seal Gapless top ring
    Rebuilt VW rods from Bugpack
    Rebuilt 12lb flywheel from Bugpack
    Chromoly Gland nut from Bugpack
    Engle 110 Cam
    Rebuilt lifters from Bugpack
    Chromoly pushrods from CB
    1:25 Lifters/shaft from CB
    VW 041 heads redone with Datsun single valve springs (valve float somewhere beyond 6.5k)
    -Spark plug redone for NGK's
    -SS Manley Valves (stock 041 sizes)
    -no porting
    Dell dual 40's
    -32 vents
    Gene Berg 1.5" merged exhaust with Stinger
    -baffled it after the first week lol
    Bosch 009 with CompU Fire points
    Bosch Blue Coil
    The engine just ripped! And I beat on it all the time.
    Only time it failed was from too much valve float caused a dropped valve seat.
    It rev'd so easily, I needed a rev limiter but, the addicting thing is with valve float
    is that it feels like vtec on the top end due to the valve floating an adding duration.....ya.
    great at that moment, horrible on the valvetrain. 😆

    • @Mikefngarage
      @Mikefngarage  Рік тому +2

      now its 1904....just as easy to build and more torque and power. still wont wreck a stock trans if your nice to it. Cheaper and easier to build than back in the day. 2.5mm each way wont hurt the case especially if it is shuffle pinned.

  • @kevinhamling1963
    @kevinhamling1963 Рік тому +5

    G'day Mike,
    So much awesome information to digest.
    You should put a parts list together using a dual relief mag case. Aimed at the guy trying to make ends meet but end up with a dependable engine. There is just so much information about its a gamble just buying parts. Every supplier saying buy this.
    It's so easy to get burnt.
    So thankyou for sharing man ✌️ peace from Melbourne Australia.

  • @mustangsandfords2708
    @mustangsandfords2708 3 місяці тому

    Mike you are a Wizard. I appreciate your videos especially on engine building. I watched some multiple times. They have been very helpful on my build. Keep up the good work.

  • @carlmorganti4584
    @carlmorganti4584 11 місяців тому +1

    Thank you, Mike, for sharing your deep expertise with air cooled VWs. I have owned a VW based kit car since 1975. I had its type 3 engine built to 1776 in 1978. I've had some top end and carburation improvements done to it. I would be interested in making some power improvements to it but I hate to tear down a bottom end that's still going strong, LOL! It sounds like should like an aluminum case and 78mm stroke are good, reliable options. Thanks again.

  • @plymouths1
    @plymouths1 Рік тому +5

    Great video, I learned a few things that will help me down the road

  • @ericknoblauch9195
    @ericknoblauch9195 10 місяців тому +1

    The 1500 that was in my mothers 1965 split window bus was a good engine that would go for 130,000 to 180,000 miles with oil changes, valve adjustments, and tune ups.
    The worst motor was the 1600 dual port that mom had in her 1971 bus. The 1600 dual port loved to suck valves down into the crankcase, and damage the piston in the number 3 cylender. In 100,000 miles the motor had to be rebuilt 3 times.
    A relstive had the 1776 in a 1972 bus that was reliable like our old 1965 bus.

  • @type2ryder417
    @type2ryder417 Рік тому +2

    So much info, will watch this a few times. A big thanks for sharing.

  • @bunning63
    @bunning63 Рік тому +3

    Way back in the late eighties used a new AS21 case when we rebuilt my father's 1600. One thing of note was we checked the valves but they were always good and they just didn't need adjustment like the original engine.

  • @nooradrian5975
    @nooradrian5975 9 місяців тому +2

    The best combination for reliability and power is 82mm X 90.5mm.= 2110cc.

  • @vayabroder729
    @vayabroder729 Рік тому +2

    1641 is with 87’s and 1679 with 88’s. I like a 2007 cc dispacement.
    Motorav in Brazil; an OEM VW supplier is now supplying the AS41 magnesium alloy cases under their name but they’re like $1,600.00.

  • @jimmywilkinson9190
    @jimmywilkinson9190 Рік тому +3

    Hey Mike ! the 69 crank would last longer pushing a bunch of weight . You are right about the more the stroke the more case clap . Also where the big case nuts the washers will imprint into the case which is like loosening the nut . They use to sell what was called Porsche type nuts with built on washers .

  • @Mr69volks
    @Mr69volks 8 місяців тому +1

    I’m on my second 1776 this one has dual 40’s 40 mm heads fat boy exhaust my previous one was single carb and stock heads. The builder called it a stock 1776.

  • @douggrenard91
    @douggrenard91 Рік тому +4

    Thanks for the information.

  • @M_IkeLeBlanc
    @M_IkeLeBlanc Рік тому +2

    Love these technical videos Mike! I’m learnt g a lot. 👍

  • @tomswindler64
    @tomswindler64 Рік тому +4

    Great video as always.1776 motor. Great content.kudos 👍👍👍😎😎😎

  • @drifterexx
    @drifterexx 5 місяців тому +2

    Great video and information, thank you.

  • @martinharris5017
    @martinharris5017 Рік тому +2

    First five minutes of this talk summed up why I stuck with stock size crank and barrels when rebuilding my H-Code 1500. Even though the engine has performance mods I wanna be able to drive this thing on a regular basis without any worries.
    AA has been a gamechanger however and if I ever decide a CC upgrade is needed AA will be the way to go. way cheaper than Mahle and seems to do the job.
    Been a while since you've done of these talks Mike, almost feels nostalgic!

    • @Mikefngarage
      @Mikefngarage  Рік тому +2

      yea to get the cc to go up you can step cut the heads or go with new aa performance heads. 60cc peanut plugs and stainless valves.

  • @popaof3
    @popaof3 Рік тому +1

    My 69 baja has a 1776 Wich has been completely reliable for the past couple of years I’ve had no issues with heat or lack of power only regret was straight cut cam gears don’t bother its annoying noise and wasn’t necessary

  • @smsjr36
    @smsjr36 Рік тому +2

    Great informative video. You had briefly talked about the durability of the type 4. What about a type 4 upright conversion to type 1? Is that possible?

  • @smokepeddler
    @smokepeddler Рік тому +1

    I like 1904cc for a solid daily. 90.5 x74 bore stroke ratio is pretty close to stock 85.5 x 69

  • @HERBYWALLACE3
    @HERBYWALLACE3 Рік тому +5

    Really nice info thank you 😊

  • @losebjughashvili8465
    @losebjughashvili8465 Рік тому +2

    I have singleport H and B case engines. Both now with 85.5 (1600) barrels and pistons.
    Both have will over 50 k miles, and are still strong.
    Every thing was built to original specifications. Including FP, Dizzy, and carb.
    A relative has a dual port, AK case, set up the same way with approaching 100 k without problems.
    They also have a FI type 3 with well over 150 k.
    And at one time had a FI type 2. With ….get this …..323 k. Before being scrapped for rot problems. It retained the original heads, and clutch as well.
    IMO it’s not worth the time and hassle of building anything but stock. Save maybe a small bump in displacement.

    • @Mikefngarage
      @Mikefngarage  Рік тому +1

      those are OK stock is ok but lacking power for freeway use. We got 100 to 150k on stock engines at the shop. just more power is better for the freeways today. teenagers are not ready to see a slow uphill vw they Rear end them.

  • @ocavant
    @ocavant Рік тому +2

    I like to add smoothness. And for that, the best thing I do is put a counterweighted 69mm crank in my stockers and dynamically balance ALL rotating assemblies(FW, clutch/PP, fan, pulleys. Static balance rods, pistons pins. Makes a huge difference imo. I’m sure longevity benifits too.

    • @Mikefngarage
      @Mikefngarage  Рік тому +1

      yea instead of the 69 just use a 74. I wont buy parts anymore to build a 69 unless I just have a crank and rods laying around that is near perfect. Same price for a chromoly 69 as a 74.

    • @ocavant
      @ocavant Рік тому +1

      @@Mikefngarage Good point. It was the early 2ks the last time I bought parts for a build. I’ll do that in the future. Thanks.

    • @Mikefngarage
      @Mikefngarage  Рік тому +2

      @@ocavant yea today its like 74 or no go for me. waiting for the machine shop to finish a case for the Bucket truck. even single relief 74 they really run smooth. The counterweights take up the stress on the crank and flywheel. plus 8 dowel and new lightened flywheel. Wholesale they are so cheap. The reason I go lightened is because the weights on the crank do the job of the heavy flywheel. Just spin like a top on the road.

    • @ocavant
      @ocavant Рік тому +1

      @@Mikefngarage I think most have never experienced a CW'd and fully balanced motor. The difference to me was significant. Next time I'll try the LFW. What weight is it lightened to? The last one I built I did 8 dowell it, but used a stock weight FW. Are you using Brothers Machine? I used to use Rimco, but I think they are out of business or not doing VW? Not sure though.

  • @timothymckellar-mullen3183
    @timothymckellar-mullen3183 Рік тому +6

    Great video. You have built a 1904 and a 2007 motor in the past, can you feel the difference in power between the 2? You made them both strong and reliable.

    • @Mikefngarage
      @Mikefngarage  Рік тому +6

      yea the 2007 has a bit more power but the 1904 is not far off. they both really pull strong. totally different cam choices compression ratios and heads 2007 has the big valve heads and really likes freeway 1904 has a better street feel with stock heads and higher compression. I did them both different for different uses. one to pull a trailer one for getting around. both great engines and outrun any of the smaller ones. better torque and really sing on the freeway.

  • @dsshowerpan
    @dsshowerpan Рік тому +3

    I started saving and buying parts to build my first engine from Gene Berg when i was 13. I used to read that tech book and parts catalogue like it was the bible. I think my crank was $600 for a swedish metal 82mm if i remember.

  • @briansmythe3000
    @briansmythe3000 Рік тому +2

    Hey mike great Info bro cheers

  • @bedlamite42
    @bedlamite42 4 місяці тому +1

    I prefer a 74 or 76 crank with 5.5 rods and b stroker pistons. Chevy rod bearings reduces clearancing.

  • @MikeMoose67
    @MikeMoose67 7 місяців тому +1

    Great video !!!

  • @jacquelinechellis4036
    @jacquelinechellis4036 3 місяці тому

    German crank is high quality!!! 50 bucks what a deal.

  • @socaljarhead7670
    @socaljarhead7670 8 місяців тому +3

    A 1776 with dual 40 dellortos is the sweet spot.

  • @OTTO-1303
    @OTTO-1303 Рік тому +2

    Great vid
    Thanks

  • @badaxelbrewski
    @badaxelbrewski Рік тому +2

    @Mikefngarage When acquiring a used VW, what is the best way to determine need for rebuild and/or replacement? (Other than assuming all old VW's need a new motor). I have a 1969 Bug with a running 1500cc engine, no flickering oil light, no play at the crankshaft pully, but it has sat for many years without being ran. Is it best to just run it until you have problems, or is there some good pro-active advise that does not break the bank or involve a full rebuild/new motor?

    • @Mikefngarage
      @Mikefngarage  Рік тому +2

      not using oil, no end play, oil pressure when hot 25 idle and 40 above 2500rpm.( use a Gauge) passes all those tests it should be good to go. Biggest worry is if there could be water in the bottom of the case. if so you should tear it down and rebuild it just to be safe. Check the case for erosion. pull the screen and see if there are any signs of water.

  • @adlerarmory8382
    @adlerarmory8382 Рік тому +2

    This is helpful. I would like to recreate the same engine used in the 9th Infantry Division Chenowth Fast Attack Vehicles (FAV) which had a 6 Rib Transaxle, pushed by a 1984cc Engine, Brazillian Magnesium AS41 Case, 90mm Bore; Case clearanced at 96mm Heads 98mm (Contemporary 90.5mm Pistons 92mm thin wall Cylinders fit) 78mm Stroke, Modified German Crank, counterweighted and machined by DPR; Japanese J331 Rods clearanced for Stroker; Cam-260 Degrees at 0.050" total lift at valve 0.375"- I was told Engle can possibly machine this cam?) Brazillian 040 Heads 52cc; Deck Height 2.4mm, shim under cylinder 0.25mm (0.010") Calculated compression 8.4:1 This would be going in a restored former military Chenowth 2LW early Fast Attack Vehicle. I get your argument of aluminum being stronger than the magnesium but in this case it is something historic being recreated not a maximum performance per dollar spent project. There is a guy over in Alabama who has a AS41 Magnesium Case for $300 that, Lord willing, is still viable for rebuild. If you have any wisdom to pass on I am all ears.

  • @seventhson27
    @seventhson27 Рік тому +1

    It's been my observation that the life expectancy of "Hot Rodded" VW engines is about 10 days.

  • @WizardSoon
    @WizardSoon 6 місяців тому +1

    I see a VW Golf MK1 grill there~

  • @trekguy23
    @trekguy23 3 місяці тому

    Is your 40hp case good?

  • @Nabaca
    @Nabaca Рік тому +2

    Hey, I have a question what's your opinion about mexican fuel injection cases? there are aluminum and dual relief but does not have the chofelpin to main bearings . I was thinking make a 1904 but recently change my mind and I want to make a 2054 for the extra horse power. Pd I will run fuel injection

    • @Nabaca
      @Nabaca Рік тому +2

      Thank you for all the information I really learn a lot from channels like yours here were I live very few people know about getting performance from these motors. And I really love these old cars.

    • @Mikefngarage
      @Mikefngarage  Рік тому +1

      not really familar with them. I hear they are great cases but I dont really know much about them they are really later in the game. the early mexican cases as41 were great.

    • @Mikefngarage
      @Mikefngarage  Рік тому +1

      your talking about the AF case. I had one but never had it apart.

  • @Mr69volks
    @Mr69volks 8 місяців тому +2

    What is considered a stock 1776 ?

    • @Mikefngarage
      @Mikefngarage  8 місяців тому +1

      stock 1600.......or 1776 (obviously not stock)

  • @CharlesAAnnen-rh4mk
    @CharlesAAnnen-rh4mk 5 місяців тому +2

    Yeah but, you can't set an aluminum case on fire and kick it down the hill on Saturday night , eh.

  • @pawleymediaconsultantsllc5
    @pawleymediaconsultantsllc5 Рік тому +2

    I got the same damned shirt !!

  • @richardbooth4573
    @richardbooth4573 Рік тому +2

    no ! 65 1200 is the most reliable if left stock. although the 68 1500 was not bad. the 34 pict carb is not reliable. the 30 pict is better. dont like dual port heads because you need a special tool to pull the plugs. single port heads are a better design.

    • @Mikefngarage
      @Mikefngarage  Рік тому +3

      yea but if you get rear ended for going too slow that engine wont do you any good. Stay single port and go 1904 with counterweights better engineering. Counterweights take more of the stress out of the crankshaft less stress at the flywheel and 8 dowell. stronger. 1500 rods were the weakest link. low power made them OK but they are not that strong. Need better freeway speeds today when climbing hills or you will get creamed by a liberal teenager that does not know to look for a slow VW.

    • @Rockettube1
      @Rockettube1 9 місяців тому +2

      @@Mikefngarage Epic reply 😂

  • @autonomous_collective
    @autonomous_collective Рік тому +3

    1904 cc

  • @ericevans7976
    @ericevans7976 2 місяці тому

    1679 thick wall

  • @redshirt-scotty
    @redshirt-scotty Рік тому +4

    gimmic! h-beam rods are for suckers and people with more money than brains. if they were the best then they would be the best no matter what size, rpm or unit power is passing through one of these air cooled motors. examine what comes from any manufacturer's factory engine no matter the size, rpm or unit power. just pick one, any one, and it will come with I-beam rods and, no, air cooled motors aren't special. listen to what the world's engineers are telling you. I-beam - they are inherently stronger.

    • @Mikefngarage
      @Mikefngarage  Рік тому +5

      only use for h beam is really super high RPM drag racing and turbo IMO. street they are literally useless. just more weight to swing around and cause premature wear. your right on that for sure.

    • @muddytiresmtb7415
      @muddytiresmtb7415 Рік тому +2

      Not exactly more rotating mass but can be stronger than I beam if you are spraying your beetle or a high boost application they are better

    • @Mikefngarage
      @Mikefngarage  Рік тому +1

      @@muddytiresmtb7415 turbo or high revs I beam. But I would go Carrillo Rods for that. boost or spray H rods most carb applications other than the track I beams are totally fine and a bit lighter.

    • @redshirt-scotty
      @redshirt-scotty Рік тому +2

      @@Mikefngarage this is how it starts. engineers have told us that I-beam is better. some vw mechanic, like a berg or a hoover, comes along and crows from their pulpit, like moses down from the mountain, and you guys buy into it and then start crowing the same stuff. you don't do the newbs any favors by doing this. you spread vw religion when you should be spreading automotive science. direct your questions at an engineer not a mechanic.

    • @Mikefngarage
      @Mikefngarage  Рік тому +2

      @@redshirt-scotty but racers have done more than VW engineers. Remember the engineers were building the peoples car. Not the best performing car. I beam rods are fine for almost every application. The reason they make H beam is for racing. Turbo and high stress. No Rumors or backyard engineering. This is proven by some of the top engineers like guys who run companies like Autocraft and Pauter Racing. BUT.....Only for Racing or turbo or nitrous. that is what they are designed for. Street applications your right I Beam.. That is what I run either stock I beam or Chromoly which are stronger and lighter than stock I beam. They need to be because they are clearance rods.

  • @michaelmurchison8531
    @michaelmurchison8531 Рік тому +1

    My 1641sp is more reliable then my 1600sp

  • @mosfizephyr-ww6wz
    @mosfizephyr-ww6wz Рік тому +2

    What is this about?