What VW Air Cooled Engines NOT! to build
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- Опубліковано 18 жов 2023
- CB Performance Crankshaft www.cbperformance.com/product...
CB Performance Stock length Clearanced rods. www.cbperformance.com/product...
Car craft store engine kits carcraftstore.com/basicenginek...
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FYI if your going to do a 74 or 76....you typically dont need to have the case opened up for crankshaft clearancing. YES there is a very small area around the cylinder incert that may need a little Dremel action. I show it on my 74 stroker engine build. Very easy to DIY. no machine shop tools necessary. This should work on 74 and 76. You do need to assemble the crankshaft and rods with the bearings and rotate them in the case bolted up (mock up) mark it with a sharpie and cut a little. As to a 74. with stock length Clearanced! rods on an 88 or 85.5 you will need to run stock length 5.4 Clearanced rods. for them to clear the piston skirts. BUT mock it up and check it.....you still may need to cut the skirts. I dont think you will according to sources I checked with but you still should check! On a 76 I dont think you can run the 88 or 85.5 without machining the pistons. confirm that with brothers machine shop they do these all the time. On a 74 with A-pistons you can use 5.325 clearanced rods. only with 90.5 or 92 pistons because they have short skirts. This combination comes out to almost or NO SHIMS....still need to check your deck height but it is really close to stock. always refer to your manual and Verify with your parts supplier and machine shop before you order the parts.
Case strength is important. It does the other pushing. I think it was a 2185 cc engine that did sub 13 seconds on the quarter mile in a dune buggy. A bloke bought it and put it in a Kombie van. They weight and the power of that engine cracked that engine case. The engine is a whole unit.
I'm building a 78mm stroked European 1300 dual port with stock 77mm bore and extra thick wall. To keep the CR @ 7.5:1, the amount of shimming moved the cylinder out to the point where almost nothing was left to keep the cylinder centered in the case. I was able to nickel silver braze custom made bushings on the bottom of the cylinders. Also the cylinder shrouds are shortened 9mm on the body side and lengthened 9mm on the case side. Shims are needed to close the gap between the fan housing and shroud.
We did a 1968 for a Ghia we had. Weber 40 IDF's, webcams 163 cam, CB rods, aftermarket heads, basically exactly what you talk about and it was pretty darn fun. It ran really good. No clearancing of the case. The crank, rods dropped right in. Pretty much zero torment.
14:27 Even if you just smooth the castings and match port the intake you can make heaps of horsepower. No need to cut on through for a street car.
Great video Mike. I have gone the slip in 88 thick wall route on a stock DP bottom end with AA big valve heads. Why? Because I watched one of your earlier videos! This was interesting, because if I need to do the bottom end in future I will go and stick the 74 crank and clearanced rods in it for 1800cc. With a cam upgrade this will be easily enough for my daily driver Ghia. As you say here, reliability, tractability and heat dissipation are keys for enjoyable everyday use...
Oh that sucker will come alive with that 74 in there. Use the stock size rods. 5.4 inches. They sell a really good deal set at CB now. Rods and crank unbelievable price.
Thanks Mike for a very informative clip!
My bus had a 76X90.5 engine I built myself. The crank was counterweighted and I used a '71 case. It made plenty of power with dual Solex carbs in 1976!
oh yea for sure. No machine work either just a little grinding around the cylinder holes too.
Hi, I want to upgrade my 1600 to your same engine specs with the 88mm displacement. Can you tell me what do I need? Thanks.
@@pdan3676 Best way to go is the 88 thick wall cylinders. 74mm crankshaft with stock 5.4mm rods. Or have Brothers vw machine shop machine down the piston skirts and use 5.325 rods (car craft might be able to do the same). This works better but costs a little more. Then get 90.5 heads from aa performance. They have big valves stainless and single high rev springs. Engle 110 from Brothers or new cam. ( you can buy a cam from brothers that is a stock cam machined to engle 110. that is much cheaper. Reground lifters. You can buy all these parts from car craft in Riverside. they have the best prices. you may need cut to fit push rods but if you go with 5.325 rods you may be ok with stock push rods.
Hey Mike ! Richard had a machine shop and when he modified a case he would drill the holes for the head studs away from the cly. hole and then use steel case savers . it didn't have the saver against the cyl. problem .
Great video!! Lots of REAL information based on understandable rationale, not just opinion with no backup!! WELL DONE!! THANX!!
Watching now! This will be informative. I currently have a 1904.
one of the best options is that engine or the 1968 or even the 2021 which is a non clearanced block engine. No clearance needed for the 76 (most of the time) 76 x 92 thick wall with 5.325 short rods only needs 1mm shims approx. still good engine. 88s dont work with that combo.
Nice video Mike, very informative and simple to follow
Thanks 👍
Thickness at the cylinder tops:
The new 92 mm from AA (4.55 mm)
Modern machine-in 88 mm (4.5 mm)
Stock 85.5 mm (4.15 mm)
Modern 90.5 mm (3.75 mm)
94s mm (3.55 mm)
87 mm slip-ins (3.4 mm)
Old 90.5 mm (3.25)
Old 92 mm (3.0 mm)
88 mm slip-ins (2.9 mm)
(Credit to jpaull)
I build my own engines...and agree with what Mike is talking about. I have a Demello 78.4 x 92 Thickwall with dual Italian 40 webers in my Split Kombi, On a chassis dyno, with a straight axle beetle trans 4.12 r/p it put 97hp and 105 torque at the tire. It pulls long grades and head winds remarkably good! I just finished up a 1915cc in an H-case for my Auto cross car, because it's what I had...and wanted to see how it'd do. It has lot's of down low power...and on the freeway the oil it runs really hot. I didn't build it for that, but just wanted to concur...a 1915 is not a destination engine build. You will NOT like it in a daily driver. Maybe if it was full-flowed, and an thermostat fan controlled oil cooler it'd work? But I wouldn't waste my money on new parts to build that. Great video!! 92 Thickwalls fit in a 94mm register....so unless you have an 8mm head stud case, you'll be cutting it close to getting into the stud inserts with either 94's or 92mm Thickwall cylinders.
92 thick walls fit in 90.5 case but have thicker walls on the upper. Require 94 heads.
Very informative and educational video, thank you.
Hey Mike, I built AA performance 74 mm crank and rods and I did have to clearance my case. I didn’t know about the CP performance stuff.
Love this .....thanks!
Good stuff Mike! 👍 I too would never use 87s. On a side note 94s can be trimmed down at the base to slip into a 90.5 case, same deal as a TW 88. 🤔 Not ideal but every little bit helps.
Yea just going straight in there is a NO NO to me. Can easily build a smaller engine that is really fun to drive.
i have heard of guys doing that or using aluminum case. I have not verified it myself.
@@Mikefngaragethick wall 88s or 92s would be my first choice, they're just way better. 💪💪👍👍
Thanks Mike
OK, I just subscribed. We are still not in the same solar system when it comes to factory cooling and thermostats. But, I can tell from this particular YT of yours that you have the experience. I completely agree with you on everything in this YT. I have a favorite engine (doghouse/dual relief) for Bugs (Buses are different) if a person has the same priorities as me: Lots more well-behaved horsepower (no flat spots, no hesitations, simple carburation, no overheating without additional oil cooler, excellent cold start and idle, excellent idle, GOOD gas mileage, but a need to run premium due to compression, flat and torquey powerband......) and stock reliability/durability but with a counterweighted crank and balanced pistons. If the cost for a new aluminum case were not a factor, what engine would you build? (Assuming we are building our engines ourselves but would farm out machine work).
4:03 For the big bore you need the skinny stud cases. 90.5 needs to cut the case to fit. Even the 1776 engine is better than the old 1600. The old beetles you had to turn the engine so the exhaust valve was down so you could get the tappet cover off. I have Mitsubishi now much more work. My Subaru was almost VW just remember for the tappet clearances the exhaust is in the middle. The old Subaru ea81 engine is reliable as. I think they use them in airplanes.
Hey Mike ! The motor in Rambus is a 1600 with dp with D porting Engle 100 , 32 36 carb , extracter header with J tube and what I did wasthe wrong thing . Yeah it goes 92 mph but it is shooting to many RPM . One of these days I am going to stretch a rod or spring it . What I think I was wanting a low end power band . Rambus is a 71 with brake booster and I was advised not to go with a 110 or 120 due to intake vacuum drop .
we had a 110 in ours and it was OK back in the day. brake booster would put us all through the windshield.
Thanks, been watching these for a while and was thinking of doing a 74 and 87 single port, but apparently 87s still have issues. So, your right, fix your size problem with compression. Your going to increase it any way most cases so why risk a hotter engine?
I have a 1915, and although I love that engine, it's definitely a rail buggy only engine. It was my first build and kinda regret going 94s since it's on its first line bore. I just did a refresh on it, because my dumb 🍑 didn't tighten the flywheel enough, luckily caught it and didn't hurt anything, but it gave me an opportunity to put a counterweighted 69 in it that I got cheap off a buddy along with ratio rockers and chromoly shafts. So now it'll have a crower 3 with the ratios it should have even more awesome lift to better suit the dual spring big valves 😏.
And I also just got done putting a 1776 together thanks to your advice on staying away from 92 thins which it came with. I got that engine in a deal and get this, that sucker didn't have a damn oil pick up in it 😅 thank god it never ran or never ran long. Still had assembly lube on it. Luckily the cam and crank were safe. I built it pretty much the same as the 1915, a crower 3 and big valve heads (single spring) it's going in my split bus.
go 74x88 thick wall. they slip into the 85.5 case and have larger tops like 90.5 better alternative. Just need to do your heads. to 90.5 opening.
Mike, great video and tons of info. I'm sold on the 1800 and 1968 with thick wall jugs. 💥Question.. for either of those, what carbs, distributor and exhaust would you run? Thanks!
Dam !! Mike thanks .. mike you do engine builds ? Im out here in pasadena .. by bob costas old place
Wow. You know alot. I'm new to this. Going to look at street legal sand rail. 1600 single another. Looking for advice.
Have you ever even driven a 2276 or bigger with “real” heads?
Go big or go home Fun to drive to me means ridiculously fast
Oh yea like superflo. Yup or Steve Timms heads. Sick fast. you dont need to go 94 to go fast either. 92 thick wall and a 82 is plenty fast. 2180 or go 94 with aluminum case. that works too.
I have stretch casesavers outwards 8 mm. studs will flex. So 94 works.
just the case savers are really close to the cylinders. Studs are fine but your case savers are rubbing on your lower barrels.
8:43 The engine is designed to be at 3000 rpm. Standard crank without counterweights at a higher RPM It will spread the center of the case. The problem is when the bearing can move it will. Counter weighted crank and stay below 8000 rpm. Top engines but they were not built for torture.
I've built each one of these (except 87's and 92's, for the reasons Mike talked about). 94s are fine but you need an Aluminum case + 8mm studs, good cooling (i.e. external oil cooler) larger fan, CNC heads, larger cam, etc. etc. Its just gets WAY more expensive to do correctly. If you don't have the money go closer to stock.
exactly I think the studs are moved over just a bit to give them more strength on those autolinia 94 cases.
@@Mikefngarage they are out a little and case savers are recessed a bit, the barrels are also way bigger which means fitting tins becomes a challenge
1776, 1835, 2110, 2180. That’s all I ever had, all I would ever consider. Dual Dellorto 40s (max) on the first 2 and IDAs on the last two. All Weber carbs are garbage EXCEPT 48 IDAs . There is no substitute for them.
Nice video.👍👍👍😎😎😎
Thanks 👍
🇺🇸👍 good information thanks for sharing 👍
Watching this and looking at prices has me thinking. I have an older engine and did not plan to split the case. This is going to be my first build and I planned to do the top end stuff, If you do a different crankshaft, how do you know what bearings to buy?
What size cam do you recommend for a 1968cc build? And do you recommend running premium gas?
So, if I build a 2110 on my brand new bubble aluminum case, I'd need to get it shuffle-pinned around my center main bearing?
On the 1800 and 1968, what carbs, distributor and exhaust would you run? Thanks!
Mike, I am getting ready to build the engine for a 1970 bus. Am wanting more torque and have been looking at a Stroker build with a AA Performance kit. Was looking at the 74 or 76 stroke. Was wondering what size you would suggest. This video gave me a lot of information for this build. Great job on the video.
either one but I dont use a 76 on a 88 or smaller because of pistons skirts. I am not sure the rod length on the 76 or clearanceing but it should be the same. But I think I would run short rods on that with a pistons. But I think you can go b and longer rods. Get the old calculator out and remember it is 69 minus the new stroke cut in half. 74 is a 2.5 mm difference each way. 76 is a 3.5mm so a pistons with short rods would be 40 thousands shims. to be close to 60 deck. should not require machine work but just a little dremel work to get it to spin. best to confirm with machine shop or parts supplier to get the right stuff. Mock up and rotate.
@@Mikefngarage thanks for the information
Ok regarding the 94s and an old mag case I understand your reasoning but would you be ok with 94s and a new aluminum case?
Grazie mille delle informazioni... io volevo fare un 1641 .. ma andrò per un 88 mm muro spesso ... allargando le testate .. grazie
If I choose upgrade my 1971 Ghia 1600cc stock to 1679cc with stock 69mm bore stroke and new 88mm displacement cylinder and piston and dual port 90.5 cylinder head top end kit, do I have to machines to open up the case bores to 90.5 for the upgrade? Also, what size cam would I need for this upgrade? Any advice would greatly appreciated.
Hey Mike I'm new to beetles I just got a 1974 standard bug single port not sure what cc engine is in there can you tell me what to look for so I can start getting the information for my engine, heads etc...? Please.
usually 1600. if its dual port and the case has AS as the first 2 letters on it then it is probably a 1600. More than likely it has not been upgraded especially if it does not have dual carbs.
I also have to cut off my piston skirts and shim the cylinders
74mm no clearance needed 99% ? Mike, did you ever build a 74mm my friend haha....... The cilinder opening bores needs to be clearance for the rod studs and also your piston skirts need to be cut off or you van reshape them. And some cases hit from the crankshaft to with 74mm. Its not to much work, but defenently not plug and play. I agree, if you have the money to spend and looking for a good motor and torque a 74mm crank is the way to go.
yea Like I say assemble the crank drop it in. yes there is a small notch you need on the cylinder opening to be technical. I show it on my 74 engine build video. Use the AA clearance rods. solves most of the issues. IF you use 5.4 rods instead of the 5.325 they are suppose to clear. according to sources I talked to. on the stock piston length for A piston 88 or 85.5....90.5 and 92 already have short skirts. plus you can get mahle that have short skirts. Install and check like I said.
I just put in a brand new 1835 inch didn’t use a break in oil instead i used SAE 40, so far i have driven 50 miles on it, what type of oil do you recommend from this point on? Thanks
castrol or Kendall are about the best some use Penn grade (not pensoil) also Shell rotella t5 is ok for VWs. stay away from Valvoline, Pensoil and Quaker state. Staight 40 is ok but I use multiweight 20 50. some guys swear by straight 40....but that is up to you
Just buildin' 1641, schould I start crayin' 😂😂 😉
a lot of guys build them. But better to go to the 1679 or 1800. much better options for a long term engine.
I did a 1641 budget-build last winter (used parts-on-hand except for the piston/cylinders and bearings) counterweighted crank, W100 cam, bumped the compression up to 8:1 on stock heads with a little porting work and 1.25:1 rockers. It was only supposed to be a hold-me-over motor while I collected parts for a 1968 but man it runs SO NICELY I'm going to wait a while on the stroker.
@@Figment078 I have similar set-up. Lookin' forward to similar results 😀
@@Figment078 people run them but they are not a engine I build because they run hot here and they dont really give you enough power for the heat. you can put higher compression on a 1600 and get just as much power. really depends on what you have laying around. the 1679 is better if you have access to someone to cut the heads. then you get some power. cylinders slide in the same block and heads need to be opened for 90.5 super thick
@@Mikefngarage oh I agree completely, if I were building for longevity or paying retail for the piston/cylinder kit I probably would have made a different choice but for $100 I couldn't say no.
How do you guys with nonstock engines run thermostats? I am afraid to go to a larger engine because I won't be able to run a thermostat, and the engine won't warm up quickly, shortening its life.
nobody runs them here and we get over 100k miles on an engine. if your not running it in seriously cold temps they really dont do enough; summer driving around most places is what people do now. Winter driving I could see an concern. Literally nobody in the west coast runs them. and winter drives with 40 degree start ups all winter or even colder. I have started my day at 30 degrees and engine warms up just fine. my friend that only have a vw gets over 150k miles on an engine with no therm.
If I have a case already opened at 94 can I go down to 92's??
just go big...if its already done you might as well use the case. I just dont do that to a case because of the reasons in the video. I would go like 74 or 76 x94 will sure be fast.
Sorry. Single port.
Without spending stupid money you won't make a vw fast and reliable, plus a vw is no handling or braking machine, 1776 won't brake the bank and will last and have moderate power increase
1776 with dual Dellortos is the ticket.
I picked up a Free sandrail. Has, i think i haven't pulled it out yet, 1200 single port. What would you suggest. It is frozen so I'm sure it's a total rebuild. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks ahead of time. 😊