Thanks for videos, first part was the best😂 and useful information in the second. But want to ask, is it not better use for deburring felt wheel+1 carat diamond spray? Of course deburring goes after 1000 or 1200 cbn?
Yes Andrejus. The edge we get after a fine grinding wheel of #1000-1200, that we deburr with a high-angle honing on the rock-hard felt with 1-micron diamonds has better edge retention. The Composite wheel is a "shortcut" to a fast good edge. But I would not use the CW for premium knife steels. This is covered in more detail in the last revision of the Knife Deburring book. Before grinding on a freshly trued stone wheel, remember to condition it with the #80 diamond plate, for nicer bevels and better edge.
Excellent! Nice (and rare) to see a quick sharpening method for Tormek. Just wondering if the coarse Diamond wheel (DC250) could fit into this protocol in place of CBN160?
The DC works OK when we re-sharpen at the existing edge angle. We experimented with coarser grits to speed up re-grind to a lower angle on Tormek. In our experiments we went as low as #60 - but it was too damaging to the edge. It takes labour, money and time to determine the right grit of the CBN/Diamond for knife sharpening.
@@knifegrindersaustralia5158 So just to clarify, would mid range knives work ok to regrind new primary bevel angle: with a DC250 - then to CW wheel - then to leather wheel for deburring, as a progression
Hi Vadim. Removing my SG wheel to use the FVB with composite wheel, my SG wheel bore hole has started to widen, enough for the wheel to run wobbly, and is getting impossible to make it tighten properly to the wheel, and there's now a wobble every time I remove it and put it back on the axel. Any insight to how I might make the wheel tighten up properly, and run true as the standard way does not tighten the Ezylock nut anywhere near perfectly anymore... Thanks!
Glad you liked it! If you are going to use this method, condition the coarse wheel after truing with a #80 diamond plate, as detailed in the video A better way to true and grade your stone wheels - Part 2: Grading ua-cam.com/video/141hD1d1zj0/v-deo.html
Hi Vadim, you probably heard about the old EA-240 tormek wheel, (I got one second hand last week) do you think I can use it as this composite wheel? Are they similar? Thanks!
Thank you for this! Is it any good to go Tormek DF250 with 600 grit, to CW and then go Tormek PA70 and after that chromium oxide? Or is the PA70 pointless edge wize? Do you always go up to 1200 on premium knifes like global? The Tormek DE250 is impossible to find in Sweden atm xD
The composite wheel has been developed to speed up sharpening of mainstream knives, mainly common kitchen knives - you should not add more steps than needed as this would slow down the process.
on my Tormek t8 when I pull the big wheel off to use the small one it will walk the shaft out is there something wrong with it? I always need to put spacers in and put nut back on in place of big wheel.
I thought no one would notice that I forgot to insert the spacer on the shaft when started honing. Without the spacer, the shaft will slowly slide out. When I realised my mistake, I put the spacer.
Thanks for this Vadim! Quick question as I am very new to the Tormek system. I noticed the first time you were honing on the composite wheel, you removed the grindstone and left it bare. On your subsequent honing efforts, you replaced the ezy lock nut along with what appears to be a spacer. What is that for? So the drive shaft stays put and doesn't shift?
Eagle-eyed Michael, I thought no one would notice that I forgot to insert the spacer on the shaft when started honing. Without the spacer, the shaft will slowly slide out. When I realised my mistake, I put the spacer. As a spacer you can use anything 45mm wide with a 12mm central hole, even a piece of wood. If you still have the Tormek box, use that white plastic insert that was on the Tormek shaft to keep it in place during transportation.
@@knifegrindersaustralia5158 Haha thanks for the reply! That’s what I thought as I noticed that behavior on my T-4 and wasn’t certain it was supposed to do that. I’ll have to try that spacer trick. Thanks again!
@@knifegrindersaustralia5158 As I have attempted to replicate your steps and technique for sharpening over time, I have seen a gradual improvement in the results of my sharpening. Your are so methodical in how you approach the process, and this is really helpful. I also noticed the mistake detailed above that you made in this video, and thought it was great that even you occasionally may make a small error. Thanks for all your teaching videos.
Do you see any negative side effects in this process by increasing the Tormek RPM up to 150-155, if it doesn't throw off water? I'm doing some tests, getting right around 150rpm and don't see anything negative with the axel, water spills etc
We are learning from you here, Scott. I've not tried the composite wheel at increased Tormek RPM. But in general, we do hone at increased RPM. In our workshop we have the RPM-increaser on the Tormek with the honing wheels, felt and leather, and on the Tormek with the coarse CBN wheel #80 & # 160. In order to minimize the burr, we do NOT increase RPM on Tormek with CBN #400 and #1000.
Really great stuff! Question: For commercial sharpening, would the course diamond wheel and the composite wheel do a high end finishing job? Also, would that some setup work well for high end Japanese and high end German steel knives for private customers and not just house knives in a restaurant?
@@knifegrindersaustralia5158 Do you need the FVB for the angle calculator, or will the standard edge trailing horizontal position still work with the software?
Two moments here. 1) The composite wheel CW-220 is a good shortcut for common knives, not higher-end. Used after a coarse wheel, it gives an arm-shaving edge - the fastest way to get it on Tormek. Great for use by mobile and farmers' market sharpeners. Microscopically, the edge comes "toothy" and has a microburr.
2) Finishing with pure chromium oxide cleans away all the burr to clean metal, meaning lasting sharpness. Microscopically, the edge is still somewhat "toothy". However, we get longer lasting sharpness when grind on a sequence of grinding wheels from coarse to fine, set edge on #1000, then deburr, remove the root of the burr, and finish with pure chromium oxide.
Thanks for videos, first part was the best😂 and useful information in the second. But want to ask, is it not better use for deburring felt wheel+1 carat diamond spray? Of course deburring goes after 1000 or 1200 cbn?
Yes Andrejus. The edge we get after a fine grinding wheel of #1000-1200, that we deburr with a high-angle honing on the rock-hard felt with 1-micron diamonds has better edge retention.
The Composite wheel is a "shortcut" to a fast good edge. But I would not use the CW for premium knife steels. This is covered in more detail in the last revision of the Knife Deburring book.
Before grinding on a freshly trued stone wheel, remember to condition it with the #80 diamond plate, for nicer bevels and better edge.
So precise with your methods and reasoning and so generous with your findings. Thank you.
Signed,
Future customer.
Thanks! Finally there's some helpful information about that mystery wheel :)
Excellent! Nice (and rare) to see a quick sharpening method for Tormek. Just wondering if the coarse Diamond wheel (DC250) could fit into this protocol in place of CBN160?
The DC works OK when we re-sharpen at the existing edge angle.
We experimented with coarser grits to speed up re-grind to a lower angle on Tormek. In our experiments we went as low as #60 - but it was too damaging to the edge. It takes labour, money and time to determine the right grit of the CBN/Diamond for knife sharpening.
@@knifegrindersaustralia5158 So just to clarify, would mid range knives work ok to regrind new primary bevel angle: with a DC250 - then to CW wheel - then to leather wheel for deburring, as a progression
Thank you Vadim😁 again a great explanation about a Tormek gear👏 useful.. Have great day 🌞🌞🌞 Best wishes Jan Ulfberth.dk
My pleasure, do you have eateries in your town re-opened from the COVID lockdown?
Yes, but whit restrictions. And right now we have in my area COVID comeback😟 they may be closed again.. what about your area? Is it ok.
Hello!
If you could only buy 2 wheels for your Tormek, which combination would you choose, to get a knife as sharp as possible?
Hi Vadim. Removing my SG wheel to use the FVB with composite wheel, my SG wheel bore hole has started to widen, enough for the wheel to run wobbly, and is getting impossible to make it tighten properly to the wheel, and there's now a wobble every time I remove it and put it back on the axel. Any insight to how I might make the wheel tighten up properly, and run true as the standard way does not tighten the Ezylock nut anywhere near perfectly anymore... Thanks!
Thank you very much excellent video
Glad you liked it! If you are going to use this method, condition the coarse wheel after truing with a #80 diamond plate, as detailed in the video
A better way to true and grade your stone wheels - Part 2: Grading
ua-cam.com/video/141hD1d1zj0/v-deo.html
Hi Vadim, you probably heard about the old EA-240 tormek wheel, (I got one second hand last week) do you think I can use it as this composite wheel? Are they similar?
Thanks!
No, they are not similar. Tormek discontinued the EA-240 wheel in 2007, because it was rounding the edge.
Would it be possible to use 0,25µm diamond instead of the chromium oxide? And thank you for this study!
Yes, of course.
Is a smaller diamond dust not preferable compared to chromium ?
Do you mean like 0.1 micron diamonds? Not in this sharpening sequence.
Hi Vadim,
Thank you so much for all your work, your videos and Knife Deburring book is amazing.
What angle do you have with CW and Cr2O3?
Thank you. We deburr on the CW-220 and finish on the LW with Cr2O3 at the exact angle ground in the edge.
@@knifegrindersaustralia5158 Thanks 👍
What would happen if the composite wheel was run in water just like the grinding wheel. Surely this would give the highest quality.
A couple quick passes on a hanging strop produce a stronger and longer lasting edge after the chromium oxide loaded leather wheel passes?
Finish with either pure chromium oxide leather wheel or the hanging strop. No need for the hanging strop after the pure chromium oxide.
Thank you for this! Is it any good to go Tormek DF250 with 600 grit, to CW and then go Tormek PA70 and after that chromium oxide? Or is the PA70 pointless edge wize? Do you always go up to 1200 on premium knifes like global? The Tormek DE250 is impossible to find in Sweden atm xD
The composite wheel has been developed to speed up sharpening of mainstream knives, mainly common kitchen knives - you should not add more steps than needed as this would slow down the process.
on my Tormek t8 when I pull the big wheel off to use the small one it will walk the shaft out is there something wrong with it? I always need to put spacers in and put nut back on in place of big wheel.
I thought no one would notice that I forgot to insert the spacer on the shaft when started honing. Without the spacer, the shaft will slowly slide out. When I realised my mistake, I put the spacer.
Thanks for this Vadim! Quick question as I am very new to the Tormek system. I noticed the first time you were honing on the composite wheel, you removed the grindstone and left it bare. On your subsequent honing efforts, you replaced the ezy lock nut along with what appears to be a spacer. What is that for? So the drive shaft stays put and doesn't shift?
Eagle-eyed Michael, I thought no one would notice that I forgot to insert the spacer on the shaft when started honing. Without the spacer, the shaft will slowly slide out. When I realised my mistake, I put the spacer.
As a spacer you can use anything 45mm wide with a 12mm central hole, even a piece of wood. If you still have the Tormek box, use that white plastic insert that was on the Tormek shaft to keep it in place during transportation.
@@knifegrindersaustralia5158 Haha thanks for the reply! That’s what I thought as I noticed that behavior on my T-4 and wasn’t certain it was supposed to do that. I’ll have to try that spacer trick. Thanks again!
@@knifegrindersaustralia5158 As I have attempted to replicate your steps and technique for sharpening over time, I have seen a gradual improvement in the results of my sharpening. Your are so methodical in how you approach the process, and this is really helpful. I also noticed the mistake detailed above that you made in this video, and thought it was great that even you occasionally may make a small error. Thanks for all your teaching videos.
Do you see any negative side effects in this process by increasing the Tormek RPM up to 150-155, if it doesn't throw off water? I'm doing some tests, getting right around 150rpm and don't see anything negative with the axel, water spills etc
We are learning from you here, Scott. I've not tried the composite wheel at increased Tormek RPM. But in general, we do hone at increased RPM. In our workshop we have the RPM-increaser on the Tormek with the honing wheels, felt and leather, and on the Tormek with the coarse CBN wheel #80 & # 160. In order to minimize the burr,
we do NOT increase RPM on Tormek with CBN #400 and #1000.
Really great stuff! Question: For commercial sharpening, would the course diamond wheel and the composite wheel do a high end finishing job? Also, would that some setup work well for high end Japanese and high end German steel knives for private customers and not just house knives in a restaurant?
This is a good shortcut to an arm-shaving edge for farmers'market and mobile sharpeners, but won't work for high-end knives.
@@knifegrindersaustralia5158 I have other solutions for those, so that's awesome. Thanks a ton Vadim!
@@knifegrindersaustralia5158 Do you need the FVB for the angle calculator, or will the standard edge trailing horizontal position still work with the software?
FVB
@@knifegrindersaustralia5158 What brands are typically high end knives with wear resistant carbides, where the composite wheel wouldn't perform well?
Will the course to composite to chromium oxide progression produce a lasting edge as well?
Two moments here.
1) The composite wheel CW-220 is a good shortcut for common knives, not higher-end. Used after a coarse wheel, it gives an arm-shaving edge - the fastest way to get it on Tormek. Great for use by mobile and farmers' market sharpeners. Microscopically, the edge comes "toothy" and has a microburr.
2) Finishing with pure chromium oxide cleans away all the burr to clean metal, meaning lasting sharpness. Microscopically, the edge is still somewhat "toothy".
However, we get longer lasting sharpness when grind on a sequence of grinding wheels from coarse to fine, set edge on #1000, then deburr, remove the root of the burr, and finish with pure chromium oxide.
where do you buy the frontal vertical base (FVB) from and how much is it?
The FVB is our invention, comes with software
knifegrinders.com.au/11Shop.htm
How this wheel works with S30V steel for example?
We did a lab analysis, and the composite wheel is no good for high vanadium steels. Details in my book