Is "The Best Possible Axe for General Work" a Wedge? Part 1 Restoration
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- Опубліковано 26 бер 2017
- I picked up a Maine Wedge type axe, to experiment with after reading a periodical from 1922 recommending the Aroostook Wedge, a perfectly wedge shaped axe. Thanks to John Stanley Tool on ebay for pictures of an original aroostook wedge. stores.ebay.com/John-Stanley-A...
The original Text: books.google.com/books?id=Bz9...
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This is one of many axes in the boy's axe size range that I plan to collect or shape for testing and comparison. I can consume other people's ideas, speculate, randomly test and dabble randomly with axe shapes, but I'd like to have options available for direct comparison doing field work to see what I end up grabbing consistently out of preference. I may also end up doing some objective testing, we'll see. There are only 2 months left in the axe cordwood challenge, but I'd like to put a few more options to work this season.
There is a class of axe known as Maine Wedge, or wedge pattern. One, the Aroostook Wedge, is almost a perfectly straight line from the poll to the edge of the bit. Some have a high centerline in cross section and some do not. This one does not. I filed both sides completely flat at about 13 degrees, then added a narrow, flat working bevel which ended up at around 30 degrees. I hafted it up on a 27 inch handle and it's ready to start testing. How, or if I modify it from here, I'm not sure.
I have a similar wedge pattern on an old german axe head, all I can say is that it chops and splits amazingly and it's now my go-to axe when going on a forest trip. I also have the dreaded Husqvarna forest axe and, after reprofiling the edge and thinning down the handle, it is much better, however it is outchopped by the german one.
Very interesting!
@@SkillCult i think a good few of the old European axes have wedge designs.
Some of the Rinaldi ones still do, specifically their Sicilian and Calabrian models, but probably others too, and some french patterns ones do as well , i believe.
VERY interested in seeing the final analysis on this one. Thanks for bringing us along.
Steve
Good video, wedged axes are good choppers, I have a new project in the pipeline following my research. Keep your file clean with a brush, the file pulls hard filings off the cutting edge and carries them onto the softer steel where they cause those deep scores.
There were no pins stuck hard in the teeth if that's what you mean. I usually just knock it on the table and wipe it once in a while, but I'm not that fastidious when it comes to filing axes.
Good video. I really like the wedge shaped heads. They split wood very well and is useful for chopping too. I use my old Kelly Hand Made for almost everything.
Blessings from Norway, Åge
Thanks for commenting. Are wedges common there?
I just found an old 2 1/2 pound Mastercraft axe in my garage. I asked my father about it and he said that he bought it at a local hardware store 20 years ago. I couldn’t really figure out what style axe head it was until I saw this video. It’s exactly the same kind I have. Thanks for showing me how to properly sharpen it!!
You have the best axe vids! By far. Thx
Thanks!
Im surprised you don't have more subscribers than you do. your videos are amazing and pleasing to watch. I don't even life like you do, i live in Brooklyn, NYC and i watch your videos all the time. Wish i could escape the concrete jungle, nothing but crime over here. i just enlisted in the Navy, maybe when i get out ill move somewhere remote and watch your videos again and learn as homestead. Thanks for uploading.
Most of us have more choices than we perceive ourselves as having. It's often more about what chances we're willing to take or price we're willing to pay in comfort or security. There are always people trying to make choices for us though, or tell us we don't really have any.
I'm with you, man. This is the way I feel. I'm small town Illinois, but it's the same here. Without land to do this sort of thing on, all we can do is dream.
200 companies worked hard to produce the best axe design.. I had no idea that some double bit axes on the west coast for falling were 12"-14" from the eye, that's a very long bit.. But a faller standing on a spring board 10 hours a day had to reach his material, so it made sense..
No matter the wood , there was a design produced to make the task faster.. Your local library may have that book, one of the best I've read.. I still have the Plumb single bit my father used for many years.. Still a great tool.. Thanks for the reply.. Keep putting your great axe videos out for us to learn from..
What book?
looking forward to your results. bravo for trying interesting modifications!
We'll see what I can get to. I'd like to a get a small army of similar axes and go all axe lab on them and just use them a lot. I'm very curious about this one. Still haven't really used it. Been busy with apples and the garden.
The very fine book "axe makers of North America " by Allen Klenman is one of the best historical books I've read.. It's possible you own that book yourself.. Not only did I not realize or know how many foundry's there were at the turn of of the 19 th century making hand tools, axes and other hand tools..
What really caught my eye reading that book was how many different axe patterns there were..
A design for use in Maine which produced some of the best skilled choppers there were, was a different design for west coast axemen .. Trees were different species and west coast much larger.. In the book he speaks about the many patterns .. Companies would send folks to logging camp with their line of axes to find out what axemen needed and wanted .. Time was money.. Seems in competition a fellow using a axe made by Plumb axe company went on to set chopping records coast to coast.. I'm in my 70's now and still use an axe along with a hatchet.. But have never used a flat wedge axe like you have or are restoring.. It should be a very interesting test along side your other best chopping axes.. I'm curious what the results will be.. You will learn much from using this design.. I'm waiting for results.. Well done..
I have heard of that book, but haven't seen it in person. There do seem to be a lot. I'm sure some of the variation made very little material difference, but some must have been helpful too.
Proud Mainer here. Great videos
The few, the proud, the Mainers
I was wondering when someone was going to do a wedge grind. My Grandfather preferred that grind for his axes, was just raised to appreciate it. Your production value was as good as always. Greatly enjoyed the video. looking forward to more,
Neat to hear that personal insight!
I need to work on my indoor light quality. It's pretty challenging with color correction and all. Never quite looks right to me.
Damn you get up early on the Best Coast, and thank you.
Growing up in a Polish countryside I started splitting kindling at the tender age of 5 with a small hatchet. But my grandfather gave me my first proper axe (which I still have today) at the age of 9. It is a wedge Axe I used only for splitting firewood. I have since left my home land to homestead on a farm in Ireland. I own and use 21 axes, anything from hateful Fiskars through GB to some quality basque axes. I must say in my opinion nothing is better as a light weight wood splitting axe as a 3 pound wedge axe. But then again it is hard for me to be objective. Thank for the video. I only discovered your channel very recently by the recommendation from Essential Craftsman chanel. Keep doing what you doing.
Welcome, and thanks for sharing that story. I still haven't really used this axe much. I've seen other chopping axes with the wedge pattern though. We'll see how it does...
I heartily agree with you on file technique. it's like using a hacksaw. You don't lift a hacksaw out of contact on the backstroke, you just dont apply pressure. Lifting off the work may be ever so slightly better for the file, but it sure isn't better for getting the work done. If I have to buy a few more files in my lifetime it'll be well worth it for the time saved.
Amen.
actually, I think in some cases dragging the file on the back stroke can help to prevent clogging by dislodging clogs before they are jammed in very hard. I seldom do it, though.
Sixty five years ago when I was being taught basic metalwork in England , i was told that there were two traditions in filing: the American and the English. The Americans lifted the file on the back-stroke, and the English did not!
I do both, depending on the type of file in use, the type of metal, and the class of work in hand.
And I cant tell anyone why...
Best regards from Scotland.
Dragging file may help eject debris caught in file teeth...... Sounds logical to me.
I file as you did in this video. As for hacksaws I put the blade in to cut on the pull stroke. Better for the blade and more accurate cut. I can't think of any type of sawing that doesn't work better cutting on the pull. Push saws were developed when guilds controlled crafts just to make using them more difficult.
Great stuff. Many thanks.
Thanks for the info on the Aroostook axe, I have owned one that is 3 1/2 lbs and I always wondered what it was.
Neat. I would have thought it was for splitting or something until I read that.
Can't wait to see it in action. I've always felt my best "all round" axes are the ones that have a more straight wedge shape. but ive never had a pure wedge like this
Interesting. We'll see!
Cannot wait to see it in action!
That might happen today....
I would think it would be a really good splitting axe. Be cool to see if it sticks in the wood when bucking and such. either way, I enjoy to videos and glad to see someone doing their own thing instead of just repeating what everyone else does. I like the fact that you really use your axes and don't just fluff your videos. I wish I could use mine more but it's just not possible at the moment so I have to be content with fixing them up.
The author's recommendation of the wedge seemed based on diverse use. The article is focused on all the steps of firewood processing, which of course includes splitting. I would expect there to be some compromise in there, but I thought the same about splitting. I'm curious to get my hands on the more pure aroostook wedge since the pole seems heavy. That might be extra useful in splitting for the sideways torque. that's why many seem to gravitate toward double bits for axe splitting, the extra weight hanging off the back.
Ochsenkopf’ ’ makes a Spalt Fix’ wedge splitter axe that’s pure Wedge. In the hardwoods of the Eastern states -slightly Wedge patterns seemed prolific and apparently worked well. Somewhere in the middle is probably the best all around profile for an axe head. What’s interesting is the fabled Puget Sound’ axe though huge and narrow- had a pretty thick wedge thing going on. The swampers’ and reversibles were knife thin - likely for lopping off huge Limbs of felled Spruce and Fir in one whack.
I really enjoyed this video and am looking forward to the end result. What are you going to use those filings for?
Your videos are great! Very refreshing from the gibberish on youtube these days. Essential Craftsman recommended you in one of his videos. Three hours later and here I am! Real recognize real. Respect and gratitude to both of you for doing what you do.
Thanks Stan :)
I seem to be on a SkillCult marathon this week. Thanks for the great education!
great, I like binge watchers! :)
I can agree it's very important to tune instinct. It is achieved through trial and error but shouldn't be ignored or underestimated. What can be more pure to the essence of human, the animal, than to survive off of feeling. It connects mind and body to listen, and strengthens your efficiency and accuracy in thought and task. Great vids Skillcult!
Agreed. It doesn't always serve best, but I would prefer to lean on the side of instinct or maybe cumulative experience over measurement as much as possible. It makes us more self contained.
@ 12:32 I was thinking the same thing before you said it. I think this is why so many axes have a design in them to reduce the surface area to the wood.
looks like a felling axe we used in the Forest service on the wilderness crew. they worked well and held up, easy to touch up. I think it is work great.
I think you were telling me before about filing axes straight from poll to up close to the edge? I was re-reading something by Peter Vido on axe grinds and he has this story about asking a local old timer about how to file his axes and the guy sets the file from poll to edge and says "FLAT". He recommends something like 1/16 inch for more refined chopping and felling and 1/8 for swamping service. I filed one that way recently with a flat bevel. It seems okay, but the bit is too rounded, so I can't really tell until I set some axes up that I'm more used to with the curve I like.
axeconnected.blogspot.com/2013_04_01_archive.html
During the early stages of my ax sharpening search, the local old
timers were rather vague with advice. They plainly did not think of
head/edge shaping in terms of specific angles; if I showed them one of
my axes, they felt the bit between their thumb and first finger and
(usually) declared it too thick here or there… Only one of them, Arnold
Hanscomb, was explicit: he laid a file between the edge and the centre
of the ax's eye and said but one word: "FLAT! " He fixed my gaze and
repeated "Flat… then you will have an ax that cuts." ALL our axes back
then failed that parameter, most of them miserably. Though I later tried
to meet his specs, I too failed, mostly because it took a lot of
time along with many good files to properly convert the worn and abused
old axes we had collected, which had the cheeks too thick to allow for
the file (or other straight edge) to lay 'flat' -- that is to contact at
once the eye and (almost) the edge.
Great video, Steven.
I like your dedication to practical testing of various designs. Looks like you are going to have a pile of boy's axes after a while. I have to say, I finally hung one and used it and found it quite fun. I'm going to hew a beam with it next, just to play with it some more and do some bucking for the challenge too.
I've found farrier's rasps quite satisfactory for axe filing, at least for the initial aggressive work getting under the rust and taking off the thick of the meat when necessary. Super aggressive, but not as aggressive as an angle grinder. They have the advantage of being cheap and readily available.
I've heard of the Maine Wedge, but never really contemplated the implications of the design. Is sort of like the Scandi grind of axe patterns? Long term maintenance that you mention at 15:00 does seem like a theoretical hassle. Thats a lot of metal to file to restore a good bevel angle at the edge. But maybe not?
As far as the "best axe geometry" question. I'm more and more thinking that almost none of it matters. When you look at all the American axe patterns, and then all the various traditional axe patterns and designs in Europe. An Italian Rinaldi axe vs a Finnish bile vs a Basque pattern from Spain, just about all of them seriously violate the principle of "the best axe" laid out by Dudley Cook in the Axe Book in one way or another, yet people can do amazing accurate cutting with any one of them. So if there is an "ideal", the differences between the ACME of design and a very different design that can get the job done to a very high standard seem very nuanced to me.
I think you may be quite right about axe design. My take so far is that it's easy for me to get an axe to cut, but getting one to cut well and not stick is another thing. Then there is the chip throwing issue. I don't feel like I have established a standard bench mark for any of that stuff yet. We'll see. At some point there is going to be a lot a small things that make very little difference in a practical setting, but I don't want to make too many assumptions. Adam West gave me a few ideas on preventing sticking, which I haven't really put into play yet.
It's hard to say without using it some and maybe re-filiing, how wide that bevel should be for the axe to function best, but still remain durable. I'm inclined to keep it rather narrow, but if I taper it into the cheeks maybe that won't matter. If it does need to stay narrow, refiling of the whole face will have to happen once in a while. To me a scandi grind means that you bring it all the way down to an edge, which you can't do with an axe, so I think that isn't a very good analogy. Some people add a secondary bevel to scandi ground knives, but that defeats the purpose as far as I'm concerned.
I've used farreirs files for rough metal work before, but I don't have any sharp ones right now. Need to score some. have you hot filed metal with those? Try them on red hot steel, it's awesome. If I remember right, I used to use the rasp side more, but I guess try both. Yes, it messes them up, but like you said, they are usually cheap or free.
Yes i think best axe is more defined by commerce than use nowadays - take hickory vs ash axe handles - it was really only after ww2 that axe handles became hickory thorough superior marketing than wood qualities - BUT it occured when skills were being lost from both world wars and industry casued skill leach and laziness.
Yes i think best axe is more defined by commerce than use nowadays - take hickory vs ash axe handles - it was really only after ww2 that axe handles became hickory thorough superior marketing than wood qualities - BUT it occured when skills were being lost from both world wars and industry casued skill leach and laziness.
Nice work man, I,m interested to see how it works in the field.
Hey I live in Maine and collect use and build axes and this wedge shape I find I my opinion is great for chopping and splitting,its my got to choice when I head out in the woods,they also good for banging wedges into trees,they really r great for everything!!
Way cool! Thanks for sharing. I honestly still haven't really used this thing believe it or not. Looking forward to playing with it though.
Also, how common are they over there? especially ones that are flat all the way across?
They r very very common in Maine that pattern is from maine...Aroostook Maine!
I'm curious to see how u like it or not..
I have a small firewood buisssness and split about 40 cord a year by hand,I do chop too but mostly split..when I started collecting and using axes alot and started paying attention to the different shapes and profiles I had a hard time to find an axe that was good at both splitting and chopping..and to this day like I said before the wedge shape axes r my go too for everything!
Good one Steve.
I look forward to hearing how it cuts, especially in our local species.
Just ordered a 2¾ lb maine half wedge pattern on a 28. No markings on head so prob was a paper label but it looks sweet!! Looks like it has a really tall head like a connie or Tasmanian
That bit looks like the one I asked you about. Mine is 3 pounds and has that same, slight tumble-home at the poll. I live about 3 hours south of Aroostook County!
Neat, you'll probably find more then!
Paul Drowns I live in Penobscot county, Bangor area and I've found plenty of Maine axes, though some aren't marked or have rusted and pitted. I have two full wedge axes I need to work on currently.
The one in the video has the looks of a snow and Nealley to me, is it marked under the poll for the weight?
Hi Jeffrey...no marks at all, and just a tiny bit of mushrooming on the poll.I suspect it's 'newer but hard to say. The handle was well used, and I'm also thinking that it isn't the original one.
It seems like a similar theory to the Tuatahi racing axes, a broad, flat grind at a very shallow angle.
those seem to work very well, but also have quite a wide bit. I'll be interested in how this turns out for a general work axe.
great content as always.
I"ve not studied any of those racing axes and grinds yet. I need to.
Do you recommend house handle, if so do you use the extra AA service
Steven, I ordered the council tool boys axe for my son. He just turned 12, about the same age I got my first hatchet. I’ll show him the ropes. Have you tried Beaver Tooth handles? Or just make your own, get a nice ash or hickory limb. Thanks I look forward to all of your videos. And it’s time to prune my apple trees.
That's great, use the BuckStop! I haven't, but I've heard more good feedback about them than House handle. I found a hardware store brand that has a decent shape. The label said Do It Best. I think it's a sort of hardward store brand www.doitbest.com/products/302782?via=57c72fea69702d410a003cf7%2C57c72fea69702d410a003cf8%2C57c72feb69702d410a003cff%2C57c72feb69702d410a003d00 I wouldn't order one, but if you can find a hardware store and dig through them, the design is good. Most of the wood is between marginal and not great, but I found a good 1 out of about 5 for 12.00 at a local place. I'm going to look everytime I go there now.
I’ve looked at various handles at the hardware store as well, and I recently scored a bunch of Ash rounds, and I have one drying out, for a re handle of my first hatchet. I’ve used your insight on thinning my handles, and treating all of my wood tools with flaxseed oil, I want to follow up with beeswax. Have you ever tried this combo before? Thanks
I can share with you that in Serbia and other eastern Europe countries wedge shaped bearded axe on straight handle is something like standard. I know that it is used in my family for decades for all purposes and in several sizes. Usual wood around here are poplar, birch, ash, oak...
Thanks for the insight. I have seem a lot of traditional axes from around the world that are more or less wedges. I wonder if it is not even the norm.
the fiskars axes all have this wedge geometry and they seem to cut pretty well.
Fiskars make excellent splitters!
Marcus Mckenzie yes they do, doesn’t mean I like them though. I love hickory too much
@@rowanfernsler9725 I don't care for the hollow handles on the Fiskars, but admit they are tough.
Jeffrey Dustin they are tough, I do get a lot of vibration when I use them though, may be user error, may be the actual handle, I rarely have those problems with a good hickory/ash/ other hardwood handle
My X27 was a big disappointment. It cannot come close to what the maul does for splitting rounds, and it binds constantly. The handle also definitely hurts my hands and wrists even more than other fiberglass. I split a ton of wood and between a 8 pound standard maul, a 4 pound splitting axe and a 2 1/4 pound Boys axe, there is no need for the Fiskars.
Have you ever gotten back to this project? I’m thinking of making and testing an extreme wedge, finding a steel I can push sub 20. I have one set up now at 22 degrees with no secondary bevel, not quite back to the pole but as far as I could file. It chops okay, but doesn’t bite that deep, and it’s about the worst limber I have. I think you need that hollow to really get penetration unless you can get that wedge below 20. But I won’t know unless I try.
I think I said in the video, but I thought I remembered this being like 12 or 13 degrees. crazy.
I’m very interested in this one, as my wife recently ordered me a Brant & Cochran Allagash Cruiser for my birthday. They are billed as a “Maine Wedge” and supposedly very high quality, hand made axes. Not being familiar with the Wedge patterns from Maine, I’m curious what the verdict on this axe is?
What would you use those iron filings for on a rainy day?
Really curious how this works out for you. I stumbled across your video for searching for more wedge-like general purpose axes, as in my personal wood working journey it seemed to that it would be in that goldilocks zone. After seeing this video, I found a Maine axe head on eBay, so I'll be conducting my own personal experiment. I'm a bit nervous about hafting it, as in the past I've had nothing but trouble rehafting axe heads. Anyways, thanks for sharing the info you found.
Hafting axes is easy to screw up for anyone. Have fun! I actually haven't used this. I put a handle on it and it promptly warped, just haven't got back to it yet.
Good video, thank you, how to you sharpen Carpenter's axe wich has straight blade, i bye Husgvarna Carpenter's axe and after factory blade is almost unusable, I can sharpen a normal ax blade well but this profile is weird, should I just file a Scandi blade?
You can ,but it wont chop very well. Watch my recent video on why axes do and do not cut well. It may carve well and do carpentry pretty well in some cases. I'd have to see it though to decide what I would do with it.
What are you thoughts on the more pure wedge shape after having tried it?What is your opinion of applying adding a higher centerline to the wedge shape?thanks for your real world usage feedback
I think that the wedge is the best refence point for thinking about axe geometry. Geometry is all about reference points. Without them, there is not geometry. Similarly, if we think of the wedge that could exist inside any axe, that offers something we can add to or subtract from. I really can't say. I've not used this axe a lot. So far, so good, but I seriously hate the now warped handle that is on it and haven't gotten around to changing it. The real modifyable factors are how far down to come to the edge when filing that flat faces, then what does the short bevel look like, i.s. angle, round or flat etc. That is assuming maintaining the wedge shape.
Did you ever make a part 2 of this?
I look forward to seeing the results. could you tell what woods you will usually chop? after looking at those New Zealand race axes I wonder how much if any difference the various grinds really make. I assume in the hands of a expert they matter. but to the amateur(me) I don't know that I could tell anything.
thanks for the hard work and sharing it.
Rick.
I'll probably test it on a few different woods, but mostly what I have to cut right now is green tan oak. I'll try it in fir for sure and possibly Madrone.
SkillCult dig it! I'm looking for ward to seeing your results.
Steven: Great video. I learned a lot. Are iron filings good for anything? Thank you for sharing so much information.
They are used in some old cements and other recipes. Good for making iron acetate, which is iron dissolved in vinegar for dyeing mordant. I know there are other uses, but not thinking of any more now. for me, it's iron acetate for dyeing leather.
interested in how this went, i have the exact axe head on a 27 inch handle. top and bottom convexed for less sticking in poplar.
Does it have the M stamp too? I've used it a bit, and it's okay. I need to file it back a bit more. I chipped the edge.
I would guess it won't bite into the wood as well as a more thinly ground axe. That's just gut feeling though, it just seems like that's what it'd be like. Balance (edge alignment) will be different too, right?
I thought it might be front heavy, but it is actually pretty well balanced. I'll probably test penetration somewhat objectively at some point, though I'm not sure against what yet.
You are the only you tube guy that can swing a axe.
I want to look “cool” with my younger boy and buy a “cool” axe as my Chinese axe ain’t so cool but I rock it and get it All done. .
Never touched either, hoping you have,
Consul tool versus the sweed metal?
FYI
In the north east we do a 5 cord challenge ;-)
Please help as I have never used either.
My Chinese axes still work lol .
I have little to say about steel. I don't pay a lot of attention and will only pay attention when it slows down my work. That's all I care about. I'm not seeing if it still shaves after chopping through a log or anything. Council has some issues with tempering consistency in the budget line axes. The forest service versions and higher priced lines may be a little better. Used is a good way to go. Find a good handle and get a vintage American head.
Awesome
Good stuff, Edholm.
Tanks Bee
Hey man. How did this axe end up working out for you? Im thinking of doing a similar project. Did you make a follow up video?
I haven't really used it that much. I put on a handle that I hate, so I haven't wanted to use it. So far, it seems fine. No doubt they work, they were used for real work, so it's a legit design.
Just curious if you treated the handle? You don't seem like the type to leave your tools out in the weather, but, stuff happens. I recently replaced the handles in my post hole diggers, my mother rode me hard because I didn't treat the handles with linseed oil, like her dad did. I learned from and enjoyed the video! Keep the information coming.
I have two accounts and am always accidentally commenting as the wrong account lol. Check out that video though.
Perfect for splitting, not so great for chopping or carving. Adding weight to the poll--I put about an extra pound and half on the poll of my wedge ax and using the flip technique I can usually split as well as most do with an 8 pound maul.
I've been using a wedge-ish hatchet for most of my carving Seems to work fine. The little chopping I've done with it seems to have gone okay so far, but I've never really got around to using it enough to have much to say yet.
@@SkillCult
Any ax can be used for any cutting job, some are better for some uses than others, as with carving tools, I use what is in my hands until it is necessary to go to another!
Any file that will cut the axe will work but thanks for the reference on these files, I think I will buy one of them since I don't have a good axe file. I tend to use grinders and belt sanders on my axes. I think I'll try your method next time. But what file is the Swedish one? Swedish Overk(?) I cant find any file by that name. Just files for grinding callouses from your feet.
The swedish one is an Oberg, but I think they are now absorbed under Bahco. I'm not sure how that went, but maybe they merged and are now made in Portugal. Regardless, I think Bahco makes similar sized double cut files still. They aren't cheap. this one I got used (barely) a long time ago.
13.00 for one file is expensive but I just ordered one. Corona files of the same size are even more expensive. Nicholson files are cheaper but they were out of stock.
Any updates on this project? This one really fascinated me.
Not too much. I finally got a handle on there I like. It chops well enough. The balance seems a bit odd. not sure if that has to do with the wedginess of it, or something else. I haven't really done any kind of A/B comparisons or anything.
What was the Swedish file he used and any one have any recommendations for good shop files?
Oberg. They sold to Bahco I think, who still makes files and probably have a file similar to this 14 inch double cut.
@@SkillCult thx, love the channel! Have been taking all the advise!
Pure awesome! I like the way your mind works! Yes, real world testing. Get beyond the hype of corporate speak logic advertising sales... The nitty gritty! WHICH AXE HEAD PROFILE SPLITS BEST! which geometry based on physics and observations for designing the perfect axe head? Thank you for narrowing down the right angles to use. One thing. Different grinds for different applications? Steeper more narrow angle for shaving? (45•) at the tip 22.5•+22.5• or 30•+30• (60•)at the striking working tip? Based on geometry, physics and molecular structure - the atomic crystalline physical shape of say carbon- there should be a natural angle that fits like a key and its lock to break those molecular bonds=easier tool use(sharp knife=happy chef) so what is the magic number? will it be a prime number in the golden ratio? Thirds and right angles 27• 29• 33• 45• 47• 54• 67• nature works in thirds....happy hunting I can't wait for the results! Thank you again for all your time spent showing us your observations.
Okay why save the iron filings? I have a 2.5lb head mounted on a curved haft that is a wedge and it actually feals more like a 3.5lb. Now I am rethinking my hang as I usually prefer a straight haft but wanted a short one for that head.
They are occasionally called for in old recipes and for making iron acetate (iron in vinegar) for black dye.
I have several quality axes of different shapes, sizes, weights & styles all with wooden handles. That said, love them or hate them the Fiskars axe is actually a wedge shape & the do admittedly process wood quickly & efficiently. I've had a few of them in different sizes for years & honestly reach for them if I am just wanting to quickly chop or split some firewood. Mt wooden hafted axes are used for more romantic & special pursuits.
Note: I have not addressed the issues with or differences in fibre glass or wood handles. I was just addressing the shape of the axe head. If you look at a Fiskars axe, the first thing you notice besides the handle is the boxy, geometric wedge shape of the head. They are also quite straight across the bit which makes for a good axe for soft woods. Almost all axes intended for hardwoods have a curved or rounded bit.
Enjoy the axe videos. Please keep'em coming. Cheers.
Interesting. I've not use the fiskars axes and never met a fiskars tool that I've liked yet, but I do recall them being rather wedge shaped now that you mention it.
Fiskars gardening knife is a good tool, for work on your knees like weeding, transplanting, cutting down, etc. I looked through the ones at the store to get one with a slightly angled blade. Most of them were practically straight with the handle, which seems less practical.
Imightberiding i was just scrolling down looking for a mention of fiskers. I will add that they make very effective choppers and splitters but for some reason i am 100x more likely to injure myself while using one then any other comparable tool. maybe because when the wedge gets stuck it suddenly unsprings out when levered out, or balance or something else. My fiskers limbing axe is generally the last to be used because i normally walk away with a cut.
Interesting. The shorter handles maybe? Or is it subconscious carelessness because you don't really care about the Fiskars axe as much as a more expensive, classic wooden hafted axe & treat with just a little less respect? Or are they just innately dangerous because of some design quirk or flaw?
I have heard of other people being injured by Fiskars axes as well but as is usually the case, it turned out it was not the tool but the user who was at fault. I am in no way suggesting this is the case with you but I think the high percentage of Fiskar accidents are directly related to the fact that it is typically an inexperienced, first time axe buyer who purchase them.
a great axe with this design is the wetterlings large hunters axe its 20 inch 2lb great for a companion tool for walking through the woods does big work for a smaller axe
Very interesting.
It definitely depends on the geographical location pertaining to what axe shape is best. Western half of U.S. has more stringy evergreens... Eastern half is more hardwoods. So, I’m curious of where that book author was located.
Good stuff. Good UA-cam channel. Been lurking for few weeks now. Keep up the excellent content! :)
Those axes seem to be mostly from maine, so I imagine he's from around there.
Nice work. What's the rainy day plan for the filings?
Dustin Flowers my 1st thought was forge welding compound, (mixed with borax & sand).
Some old recipes call for them, like cements etc. Also for making iron acetate used in blacking hides, or making gall ink.
Iron acetate is just iron soaked in vinegar.
Cool video Skill! Got part 2 or am I missing it?
Never did any real follow up. I've used it a bit now and it seems fine. Nothing that interesting to report.
@@SkillCult ok cool. Thanks man!
I don’t think you’ll have any issues with blade sticking. The wedge will only have to move a slight amount to be freed of the wood. Just a guess though. Very good video.
Damn, that filing. never thought about the precision you could achieve by a file
Great videos, you''re my new jesus lol
It's amazing what can be done by filing by real pros. I remember reading about the exercises an old machinist had to go through to prove they could file precision machine parts within very tight tolerances. Crazy precise. Makes me look like a hack.
Among many others, I have 2 vintage Snow and Neally (made in Bangor ME) axes. One is a Yankee pattern and the other is a Maine wedge. both are 3 1/2#. The Yankee pattern is VERY simple as far as geometry is concerned and is by far my best faller. There is a delineation from the flat surface on either side of the poll to where it slopes down through the cheeks to the bit. The cheeks are not convex, just flat. The wedge is too nice and I'm leaving it on its busted up, skinny original oak haft. The wedge has an enormous poll on it and thus, to remain 3 1/2# appears very short. But the temper goes back about an 1 1/4" from the bit so I know it wasn't sharpened very much. I'm super lucky to own these axes. I only just started collecting and they are the pride of my collection.
You may scoff that I'm not using the wedge. But I don't see that many around so I'm keeping it for its next owner once I'm in the ground. So I cannot share my experience using it. However the Yankee pattern is similar in bit length and shape and has no special cheek grind therefore I believe it is a good indication of how the wedge would perform. And I can tell you MAN do the chips fly! It out cuts every other axe I own by a long shot! it gets stuck less and because it has a relatively short bit it bites deep and is just a blast to use. I was glad to find this video and that others are interested in the Maine wedge too. I am a resident of maine, born and bred here. Thanks for the interesting videos!
The wedge axes seem to be very uncommon out here. I'd like to get ahold of one that is a perfect triangle sometime. I should start haunting ebay for one. I did one axe with perfectly flat cheeks guaged off the eye and filed close to the edge. I can say it cut really well. But it also dropped off at the sides, so the cheek surface was relatively small unlike a wedge.
Hey, if it's not difficult for you, I'd love to know what the angle on your wedge is. I have a feeling it would be significantly greater than this one.
Hey man I didn't realize you had responded! I just checked out of curiosity and lo and behold! So my wedge is actually up for debate in that it is not a perfect wedge. In fact I believe it to be simply a Maine pattern and not a wedge. The more research I do seems to reinforce this. Sometimes I really wish I had an old timer close by that could help me identify and clear things like this up. If you are still interested in the dimensions of it let me know and I'll put em in a reply. It seems to me that the Maine pattern, the wedge and the half wedge would all be excellent splitters. I can't see them performing all that well in falling. Just my two cents! Great vids btw! You got me interested in apples again...
What are your thoughts on the Hudson Bay style of ax
I'm not a fan. I have a history with that axe like a bad girlfriend. They're pretty, but not as functional as they could be and the lesser contact in the shallow eye makes they come loose more often and with worse consequences. They work, but I basically see them as a primitive throwback to wrapped eye axes. I'm much more amenable to something like a 2lb dayton if size is the issue.
There is a certain purity to working with hand tools vs. power tools. More control maybe or more skill needed? I've seen many axe heads ruined by incompetents thinking they can do a job quickly with power tools, maybe because they can't do it by hand? Off-topic question: when you hang an axe, do you use wood glue, epoxy, polyurethane, or nothing when installing the wedge? People seem to swear by all methods. BTW, source for swedish file?
Heck, I've ruined stuff with power tools. It's a different mentality. When I start using them I quickly become impatient with hand processes. I don't usually use any glue for the wedge. I'd like to be able to get it back out. They can start to creep out though. If anything, I'd probably use hide glue since it's water soluble.
Oh, and Swedish file. I Think all the Bahco files are now made in portugal instead of Sweden, but I like my new Bahco so far and they seem to get good reviews all around. I think they still make these big double cut coarse files.
Tell me, the manufacturer of the file with two sides? (link if not difficult)
Bahco Farmer's File There is a link on my amazon page. skillcult.com/amazon-store/
did you ever finish this? i've found even generic cheap chinese made flat cheeked wedge like axes actually have great potential once ground down. It's just a lot of work getting those chunky blanks down!
I think finish would be a strong word lol. I wanted to put a big wide flat face on it first and use it, which I have. It is okay and it does work, but it has never cut awesome. that's because to have a thin edge all the way up and down on a flat cheeked axe, you have to have a perfectly flat/straight edge. So essentially, to get the corners to cut well, you have to file them back more toward a toe to heel convex kind of thing.
The rule of thumb in the reason why you're supposed to lift your file on your back cut is because files or made to cut backwards any backwards motion it's not going to damage the teeth per se but files are made to cut in One Direction not two directions they're meant to cut in a pushing forward direction that's how file teeth are made.
It is definitely frequently claimed that is breaks the teeth and wears them down much faster. I don't know for sure if it does or doesn't, but I've seen zero compelling evidence that it really matters to lightly back drag, including no compelling testimonials on personal experience, just "everybody knows". Also, it has to be weighed against overall efficiency, as it is much faster and easier to index the cut the same every time if you don't take it all the way off the work. I would imagine there is at least some small wearing effect, but for all I know, it would sharpen the teeth by wearing the backs down. It's all speculation at this point, but seems to work for me to backdrag lightly.
The grind reminds me of a fiskar's type head, which I'm not particularly fond of. In my experience they don't really bite well.
Haven't used those at all.
Patrick Hale the splitter axes don’t bite that well the largest axe they have with the standard wedge shape is the x15 which is just 23.5”
Hey, I imagine you won't respond to this as it is like a year old at this point, but how did the project go? Recently I got a collins hatchet head and it has the same design as that one, and I think it will work nice! I imagine that as long as it's not like a splitting maul thick or has too steep of an angle it should work well for all around use, but who knows! I also believe Liam Hoffman uses this type of shape, maybe with a slight hollow grind. Best of luck!
I haven't used it a ton, but I have no complaints so far. I just busted it out last night to maybe put a better handle on it.
@@SkillCult have you found it any better or worse than your council tools boys axe?
The wedge shape i find is best for soft woods, whereas the concave profile is for frozen wood and hard woods.
We shall see. No frozen wood here though...
So how did it perform? Does anybody know if he followed up?
Just kind of normal. If anything they are a pain to sharpen, because you have to remove so much material. I don't see any particular advantage. they are okay though. and better than some of those super thin bladed modern axes.
You have the concept of patterns in the USA which is similar to here in the UK with our Kent pattern. - my guess is for 2 reasons - 1 branding/manufacturer led style rather than woodsman led and the second being axe geometry for tree type (ass well as specific use - limbing rather than general or felling) - so a californian style for giant redwoods would not be good for osage orange /ash and different trees would stick diffently in the cut.
Ill see what info i can scrounge from old english literature for you. A chap called H.L.Edlin is well respected on old woodland topics. although the book i have written in 1947 doesnt talk about edge geometry.
I find that there is very little really detailed information on axes in old books. After the turn of the century when use became less common, you start to see more in books. Previous to that though, I think it may have just been assumed as common knowledge that you would pick up in day to day life and from family and such. I'll certainly be interested in anything you dig up.
I think that makes a lot of sense. Im shortly going to be visiting a neighbouring farmer (must be 90 yrs old at least) who grew up doing hedging with his father to learn how to sharpen billhooks and elweel hooks - ill ask about axes when im there too.
Any update on this pattern's performance?
I haven't been able to get serious with it because the handle on it is screwed, but it seems to cut well. I'm still intrigued.
Look to Oakland Maine for wedge axes
MR SKILLCULT SOME OF MY BEST ALL PURPOSE AXES FALL UNDER THIS WEDGE DESIGN , AND TO MY THINKING , IT JUST MAKES SENSE , HOPEFULLY YOUR EFFORTS ON THIS AXE PRODUCE RESULTS THAT ARE FAVORABLE ,,,,, HAVE THEY?
Hey bud. I haven't used it a ton, but so far so good. I need to cut the handle off and put on another one. I didn't like it to start with and now it's warped out too, so I just never put it to a lot of use. From the little I've made myself use it so far, it works fine. the handle is from house handle company. Their handle designs are weird to me and not really that fixable. I think I want to file it down a little more too, and taper the bevel back more gradually on the outsides. The real problem I see with this configuration is that when you file, you have to file a LOT of metal off! Many of the wedge axes I've seen on ebay have a convexity from side to side, but this one is more of a straight up wedge, except that the curved bit throws it off a little at the edge. I now think of all axe heads pretty much using a perfect straight edged wedge as the reference point. It's really helpful to have that mental reference when thinking about geometry. I might go shoot a quick vid on that actually....
Those wedge axes are really rare here, especially old ones. There are actually more newer ones than older ones. I've seen a couple newish ones from the forest service.
if you could do a video on these books you have read I would be happy
I have thought about doing one about using those kind of resources. I want you to be happy :)
Interesting video. I'm looking forward to the results. I've got a couple of old axe heads that are wedge shaped like that. I always thought they were just for splitting.
That's what I assumed too until reading that account. Some are flat in both directions and some are only flat from poll to bit with a convex from side to side.
What book are you reading from?
Youth's Companion, Volume 20, N. Willis, 1922 you can read it on google books for free. The link is in the video description.
Have you read any other references recommending maple handles?
Yes, but I can't recall exactly where.
SkillCult I would suspect from areas where maple is the best "local" choice. Perhaps they don't have hickory in Maine?
You seem disappointed with House Handles. I have restored axes for quite a few years and have tried most of the axe handle manufacturers. I have sent back more House Handles than I have used. I finally settled on Bowman Handles. There quality is consistently high and about the same price as House. If you have not tried Bowman, give them a try. Awesome video. Good quality job.
Excellent, thanks for that personal insight. Just what I'm looking for. Most comments regarding House seem to be not so positive.
I may have a maine wedge in my axe pile, I will have to check.
The pile, ha ha.
I wish the pile was bigger, but literally it was a pile. I shot a quick video, post it this evening. I actually had 3 wedge heads. Oh, keep in mind during your testing Maine is boreal forest, pine, spruce hemlock fir. Not much hard woods. I should profile one of these out like you did to see how it functions, one was 6" long and wedged to 1-1/2" at the pole. May be able to keep a decent bit angle and the wedge with out the secondary bevel. Might squeak 25 degrees out of it.
That sounds like the true Aroostook wedge shape. There is nothing about whether they have what people call the high centerline though. this one is flat all the way across, but some seem to be convex side to side.
cool!
I think Maine Wedge Axes or the "Maine Axe" is a straight line from the top and bottom of the poll to the toe and heel, not rounded. But I am no expert. What do you think?
From what I've seen, it's not so clear cut. Some are more wedge like than others. some have a curve and some don't. and there are ones that seem to be in between a wedge and the more average high centerline axes. It's just terminology anyway. I would really light to try a straight edged wedge sometime.
If I get one up here in Maine I will send it to you to put to the test.
I have no idea why these axes are not more common. I have an old one that looks like yours but is 2 3/4 pounds, it never sticks when splitting wood.
Most axes get used more for splitting than chopping but most axes you can buy now are only good at chopping and stick too much when used to split wood. Fiskars splitting axes are shaped like this axe and work great but I like wooden handles better than their composite ones.
Can you say now that this kind of shape is the best axe shape formgeneral work?
nah. I'ts been okay. I feel like the balance is a little funny. I still need to use it more and file a little more. I have it on a good handle now though.
Is a wedge shape a good "all 'rounder"? Just grab any Fiskars chopping axe and use it to find out.
No idea why I find this interesting. How can I watch someone file an axe. I don’t know. I just can.
My trade instructor insisted on us back pulling the file with light pressure, claiming it helped clear chips from the teeth. Right or wrong, Its a habit I've never broken.
That totally makes sense. People like to take things and make them into extreme rules- never, always, proper etc.... I saw an old tutorial film on filing recently and the guy was back dragging. Works for me.
Any follow up to this vid?
Not yet, haven't really used it. Been busy with other stuff.
+downeast primitive skills posted a video showing three true wedge axe heads ua-cam.com/video/KcqmPW8Xxms/v-deo.html
Some more detail on these three wedge heads.
ua-cam.com/video/ir9jdgcdro0/v-deo.html
I have a very similar Axe head and it is a Bad Ass MFR
I've been using this one quite a bit lately and the last year. There are still lots' of options as to how it's dialed in and set up. I need to start mixing it up with other axes to get some comparative experience. I like it though. Not the greatest balance on this one.
Update?
I like it. I've used it a lot now and have become more insterested in wedge axes in general, or any axe with little to no mid blade depression. Is it vastly superior, no, still ferretting out what they are all about. So many axes, so little chopping time.
@@SkillCult Thanks man, love the content, keep up the great work!
How is a racing axe ground?
I don't know a lot about it, but lots of different ways. Somewhere I saw a chart of different grinds and there were a bunch of really different ones. Anyway, it might not equate much to real life work. I'm curious though.
True, a 5 pound axe does not relate to my reality.
I imagine they are tweaked to cut as well as possible and just strong enough to hold up with clean wood and no mistakes. That doesn't equate to my reality :) There are the different types of wood too. I think they chop both green and dry wood sometimes?
You need to watch buckin billy ray’s channel. He knows more about axes than anyone.
haven't seen it in person.