Hi Don, This reminded me of growing up here in Ireland and being Irish , also born in a certain flower power decade LoL... But for a couple of years I was schooled by Certain orders of a religious nature. They used a Shamrock to explain the Trinity, But being only a kid and avery mucha rebel I could not understand how they used a plant to explain this.. Needless to say I spent another few years with christian brothers, One of whom loved to use his fists a little too much (a reason for my partial deafness today LoL) . My long winded way of saying I could not under stand this method using a pant (being straight black and white thinking at the time never helped..) It was a funny time to think back on.. But great food for thought, For the record I left the catholic church in my 20s and am a christian But yet hold to what I read to believe rather than believiing what others claim to see and believe from the bible etc.. Blessings from Cork Ireland..
@Shamnet Thanks for the post and the good chuckle this morning!! I hear ya on using your own mind rather than solely relying on the thoughts of others.The analogies used to explain trinitarian dogma never worked for me, and the way they explained it in "Nuns on the Run" still has me laughing decades later!
I'll be honest here, Don. Since I've had the ability and maturity to think, learn and conceive/retain life experiences for myself, I've always had a problem with organized religion and in particular, the Trinity. I do admit to a belief in something "higher or more intelligent/powerful than myself." I don't know what that is (I don't consider myself "well-read" and I have not studied theology/philosophy) but I can't believe we're an accident. That being said (which is more than enough to wrap my mind around), we do exist, so how did we come to be? And why? I have no issue with those who believe in the Trinity - I sometimes wish I was that naïve - but I do have life experiences that I can't explain; accidents, good karma/luck, right place/right time etc. just doesn't cut it with me. I have been to gatherings of people of all conceivable (and some inconceivable) religious/spiritual beliefs and all I found out for sure was that hypocrisy and guile exist. So that's where I am - in as few words as possible. I have "hope" that there is an existence (maybe our spirit, heart, soul or energy?) after death. I guess I always have. That leaves me nowhere. I need something to hold on to, not because I'm afraid, but why would we be here and try to exist and co-exist in this hopelessly lost and brutally difficult place if there is nothing and nowhere to take that knowledge with us to use? Perhaps I'm deluding myself or I'm simply unable to grasp what is in front of me, but I'm not being deliberately obtuse. Maybe you could leave me with a thought that I could meditate about? Something that is simple, yet meaningful? I can count on you not to be vague, offering only platitudes or clichés! I always try to honestly project positive, kind feelings and thoughts, because I believe they come back to us in some shape or form. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I try to treat others as I'd wish to be treated. That's why I gravitate to the "regulars" on your channel - you draw in a good bunch of folks - warts and all (myself included.) You've been around the block, so you know what it's like out there in this world. I'm not saying it's all doom and gloom, but it isn't "rainbows and lollipops, either. I take my positivity with me as a defense, if you will. I need to rebuild (or recharge) what I send out because it's rare these days to find people that are willing to have an open, intelligent (or just polite/civilized) conversation with - who have no agenda (political, societal, religious or otherwise.) Thanks for taking the time to read and for any response in advance, Don.
Ahhh...who can explain the Trinity? Trinity=One God, three persons: Father, Son(Jesus), Holy Spirit. First, context; It's a biblical topic, so we need biblical context. Genesis 1 "God said, “Let’s make man in our image, after our likeness." Exodus 20 “You shall have no other gods before me." So, in Genesis God is conversing with someone and they have a similar or identical image. Mankind is made in a similar image or likeness as God. From Exodus you can conclude God is not speaking to a separate god, since it would be illogical to make mankind in the image of Himself and a separate god He commands to avoid. So, this establishes at least two "persons"/entities. Jesus, the Son speaking to His Father; John 17-5 " Now, Father, glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world existed" This establishes Jesus, in some form/person was part of the "our" in Genesis 1. Also, since Jesus had the same glory as the Father, this makes Him equal in stature and power as the Father, thus He was, and is God. Blow your mind yet!? The Holy Spirit; in almost every instance, pronouns used in reference to the Spirit are he and him, not it. In this way, the original Greek of the New Testament is explicit in confirming the person of the Holy Spirit. The word for “Spirit” (pneuma) is grammatically neuter and would naturally take neuter pronouns to have grammatical agreement. Yet, in many cases, masculine pronouns are found (e.g., John 15:26; 16:13-14). There is no other way to understand these ”ungrammatical” pronouns related to the Holy Spirit-He is a personal being, a “He.” Jesus, speaking states the equality of stature of the Holy Spirit with Himself and the Father. Mathew 28 "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit". So, we can conclude the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are equal in stature and power, thus the same God, yet three persons. Lastly, how did God make mankind in their likeness? The "family" of God has three persons. In a human family, there's more than one person, yet the same family. So, there's a likeness/similarity there.
Your intro is fantastic. I am curious about what your position and arguments will be. Well played. You earned a sub, and you didn't ask for it.
Hi Don, This reminded me of growing up here in Ireland and being Irish , also born in a certain flower power decade LoL... But for a couple of years I was schooled by Certain orders of a religious nature. They used a Shamrock to explain the Trinity, But being only a kid and avery mucha rebel I could not understand how they used a plant to explain this.. Needless to say I spent another few years with christian brothers, One of whom loved to use his fists a little too much (a reason for my partial deafness today LoL) . My long winded way of saying I could not under stand this method using a pant (being straight black and white thinking at the time never helped..) It was a funny time to think back on.. But great food for thought, For the record I left the catholic church in my 20s and am a christian But yet hold to what I read to believe rather than believiing what others claim to see and believe from the bible etc.. Blessings from Cork Ireland..
@Shamnet Thanks for the post and the good chuckle this morning!! I hear ya on using your own mind rather than solely relying on the thoughts of others.The analogies used to explain trinitarian dogma never worked for me, and the way they explained it in "Nuns on the Run" still has me laughing decades later!
Now I have to watch that movie.
@dantallman5345 LOL!! Glad I could point the way. :-)
I'll be honest here, Don. Since I've had the ability and maturity to think, learn and conceive/retain life experiences for myself, I've always had a problem with organized religion and in particular, the Trinity. I do admit to a belief in something "higher or more intelligent/powerful than myself." I don't know what that is (I don't consider myself "well-read" and I have not studied theology/philosophy) but I can't believe we're an accident. That being said (which is more than enough to wrap my mind around), we do exist, so how did we come to be? And why? I have no issue with those who believe in the Trinity - I sometimes wish I was that naïve - but I do have life experiences that I can't explain; accidents, good karma/luck, right place/right time etc. just doesn't cut it with me.
I have been to gatherings of people of all conceivable (and some inconceivable) religious/spiritual beliefs and all I found out for sure was that hypocrisy and guile exist. So that's where I am - in as few words as possible.
I have "hope" that there is an existence (maybe our spirit, heart, soul or energy?) after death. I guess I always have. That leaves me nowhere. I need something to hold on to, not because I'm afraid, but why would we be here and try to exist and co-exist in this hopelessly lost and brutally difficult place if there is nothing and nowhere to take that knowledge with us to use? Perhaps I'm deluding myself or I'm simply unable to grasp what is in front of me, but I'm not being deliberately obtuse.
Maybe you could leave me with a thought that I could meditate about? Something that is simple, yet meaningful? I can count on you not to be vague, offering only platitudes or clichés! I always try to honestly project positive, kind feelings and thoughts, because I believe they come back to us in some shape or form. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I try to treat others as I'd wish to be treated. That's why I gravitate to the "regulars" on your channel - you draw in a good bunch of folks - warts and all (myself included.)
You've been around the block, so you know what it's like out there in this world. I'm not saying it's all doom and gloom, but it isn't "rainbows and lollipops, either. I take my positivity with me as a defense, if you will. I need to rebuild (or recharge) what I send out because it's rare these days to find people that are willing to have an open, intelligent (or just polite/civilized) conversation with - who have no agenda (political, societal, religious or otherwise.)
Thanks for taking the time to read and for any response in advance, Don.
Ahhh...who can explain the Trinity? Trinity=One God, three persons: Father, Son(Jesus), Holy Spirit.
First, context; It's a biblical topic, so we need biblical context. Genesis 1 "God said, “Let’s make man in our image, after our likeness." Exodus 20 “You shall have no other gods before me." So, in Genesis God is conversing with someone and they have a similar or identical image. Mankind is made in a similar image or likeness as God. From Exodus you can conclude God is not speaking to a separate god, since it would be illogical to make mankind in the image of Himself and a separate god He commands to avoid. So, this establishes at least two "persons"/entities.
Jesus, the Son speaking to His Father; John 17-5 " Now, Father, glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world existed" This establishes Jesus, in some form/person was part of the "our" in Genesis 1. Also, since Jesus had the same glory as the Father, this makes Him equal in stature and power as the Father, thus He was, and is God. Blow your mind yet!?
The Holy Spirit; in almost every instance, pronouns used in reference to the Spirit are he and him, not it. In this way, the original Greek of the New Testament is explicit in confirming the person of the Holy Spirit. The word for “Spirit” (pneuma) is grammatically neuter and would naturally take neuter pronouns to have grammatical agreement. Yet, in many cases, masculine pronouns are found (e.g., John 15:26; 16:13-14). There is no other way to understand these ”ungrammatical” pronouns related to the Holy Spirit-He is a personal being, a “He.”
Jesus, speaking states the equality of stature of the Holy Spirit with Himself and the Father. Mathew 28 "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit".
So, we can conclude the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are equal in stature and power, thus the same God, yet three persons.
Lastly, how did God make mankind in their likeness? The "family" of God has three persons. In a human family, there's more than one person, yet the same family. So, there's a likeness/similarity there.