Hate to be the bearer of bad news but the case has also been refinished. The top of the case is brushed correctly, however the tops of the lugs (the sloped angled parts) are supposed to be polished, the ones here are brushed. There are quite a few people that refinish these cases quite well now, so looking for sharp edges isn’t enough anymore. Odd that whoever did the case work did a decent job at getting the sharpness right but messed up the pattern of the finishing. But sad to report the condition of the case is consistent with the rest of the aftermarket bits. Insane how hard it is to get a good one of these now. Your only bet really is to frequent antiques shops and hope you find someone who doesn’t know what they’ve got
Not bad news at all (at this point 😄)! I am thankful for the additional clue/piece of evidence. I was already very sceptical that the case should be genuine when the rest isn't. I appreciate your contribution, Thanks!
Were you thinking that this was original? I don't have a problem restoring watches and I'm glad they have the parts to do so, assuming you know what you' re buying. It would be like buying a vintage car and assuming it's "original" and still looks like new. But you should know to check the body for bondo, etc. These watches were worn and worn well. There are a ton of really bad looking dials and inner bezels that are original, but the case and the movement are still viable. So, either wear a watch that works but looks terrible or restore it. And with a gold dial like this, a big part of the attraction is the gold dial with the pepsi bezel combination. It looks beautiful. It's got the original body and engine, but needed some cosmetic restoration. I don't think it's a bad thing. It's not 100% original, but how original is a car you modify and add wheels, engine enhancements, etc? Is your Mustang still a Mustang with different wheels, racing seats, engine performance? Yes, it is. Is this still a Seiko 6139 Pogue? Yes it is. Is it concours level/museum level original? No. But the watch was probably really bad and somebody restored it the best they can with the parts available. You're right, if you want it to be "original" then prepare to pay a lot more $. After all, it's about 50 years old.
I did think it was original, since I had the "false security" buying from a friend with exquisite taste and longtime knowledge. Anyway I myself used to focus on vintage watch models that were very niche or unpopular (or not that easy to spot aftermarket parts 😋)where true new old stock pieces are actually available. Seiko Pogue or even the Edox Geoscope were eye openers in that regard. No problem with a restored watch! It's a journey I have to take, where there are many pitfalls. Eben though I suspected aftermarketery, it took me a while lot more to actually get the details of how to spot the aftermarket parts. Probably an easy feat for Vintage watchmakers, but very difficult for the layman enthusiaste like me! Thus, I appreciate the knowledgable comments like yours a lot!
I want one, but it’s a minefield out there. I personally think your pogue is very nice looking and would definitely buy a serviced model with an aftermarket face lift. But it’s up to us to become more knowledgeable and then make our own informed decision. Thanks for your vid 👍
I have a Pepsi Pogue that I personally have owned since 1972 and had it serviced in 2022 and have only worn it a few times since. A fine watch. It was my go-to through USAF pilot training through the first Gulf War and Bosnia deployment before stopping and going in a drawer for another twenty years. I am so glad that the rebuild parts for the seals were available on eBay as Seiko no longer had them. A great watch!
Nearly all Pogues ive seen are super beaten up or redial with aftermarket parts.. Never seen a SINGLE clean Pogue for sale in over 6 years... 😂 great video showcasing details to look out for!
It is true! As a viewer pointed out on my other video, these were tool watches and used as intended, not babied or stored for future generations with papers and box etc. Still I was suprised about the level of detail here. Glad you enjoyed the video and thanks for your comment!
I am a watchmaker by trade, I have over a dozen of these and in my 40 + years at the bench have noticed significant fading,clear coming off, lume gone black, the list goes on. Aftermarket is the right way to go, you cannot buy original parts. You can however source very good copies of the bezel insert and also the entire bezel. The hands you can buy are great, but NEVER use the aftermarket sweep hand as they do not work, also the tear crop hand is a fit once only item, you cannot remove and replace as you would an OEM because the material quality is just not there, but the min and hr hands are great. If someone wants a nice watch with a dial and bezel that have had the shit beat out of them for 50 years then that's their choice. Remember, this technology is no longer required, we all have phones or smart watches that do far more than these old things. So what does it matter if some things are slightly off? Personally, I would prefer all my watches to be restored as close to original as possible and for them to look like brand new. I use only high end aftermarket stuff and I won't complain about such minor things as indices being slightly off, who cares, the technology is 50 years old. They are used as a dress watch these days, NOT for yachting.
Your points on the scarcity of original parts or the impossibility to have some original parts as replacement make complete sense. It was still a revelation to me, how much was aftermarket in this watch. I only found out because I put the watch out there and did more research afterwards (especially since I try to be transparent and not mislead anyone). I liked and still enjoy the watch visually, that's why I bought it in the first place from a friend. He wasn't aware either. It's just good to know pre-purchase. I like a bit of wear and tear if it means that the watch is still all original, but I also try to get well-preserved originals, which at the price point of this Pogue should have already been impossible or a major indicator for aftermarket pieces. Knowledge is key. Hope it did not come off as if I was trying to bash anyone for having or using aftermarket parts! Thanks for your comment!
One of your points is the rings in the sub-dial, the Pogue did leave Seiko with no rings, early versions only. I have one on my bench currently. Sometimes these dials are so hard to detect, the only true method is base materials used, most aftermarket use aluminum, the more expensive use brass just like the originals, what they don't have however is Seiko's stamp on them. The only serious thing that truly shows yours is a copy is the lume. No company ever produced shiny lume, it was Radium back then and it is a very dull, yet corrosive finish. I purposely remove the lume from aftermarket dials and replace it with Bergeon lume. Also, as someone else in the comments mentioned, your case has not been restored correctly. I would suggest your next purchase to be either, a well informed one, or buy from a reputable seller who offers a warranty of no less than 12 months, like me. Not many people will replace Seiko's original 12 month warranty 50+ years later :)
Exactly! Thank you for adding your experience to this comment Threads! Indeed this was an impulse buy from a friend, rather than an informed purchase from a reputable dealer. Could have been avoided 😅
@@TiMEworn You seem a little bitter over this, which basically means you're not picking up the signals I am sending :) There is nothing at all wrong with your watch, sure the indices may be slightly off and it shows aftermarket lume, but what would 'you' prefer to look at, a nice looking replica of a famous dial, that reflect exactly as the OEM ones did, or look at a beaten to all hell and back dial that is faded/grubby and generally abused? The gold Sunburst dial works just as well as Seiko's did. I had a number of NOS dials from the 6002 series, I compared them to the copies and both under artificial light and daylight, the reflection was the same. I'm sure as demand climbs, better products will become available, but here's the kicker, who, other than you, looks that close? No one walks around with a magnifying glass ready and willing to seize your wrist and inspect for aftermarket parts. Stop your analytical pursuit of perfection, it will never happen with a 50+ year old watch, be happy that A: it has the OEM sweep hand. B:it has good quality replacement min/hr hands. C: The bezel from 6 inches away would never be picked as a copy, D: the inner bezel you also state is aftermarket and you say this like it's a bad thing, it's not a bad thing, they work and better yet are UV protected, unlike the OEM counterparts. Of course there are good ones and bad ones, the bad ones fade pretty fast, the good ones are only a few $$ extra and will outlast the originals by decades. Are there better dials than yours? Sure there are, but so what, Seiko quality had their issues also. Just enjoy the watch, remember how you felt the first day you saw it, and stay feeling that way, it is a nice passable restoration of a watch that NEVER left the factory perfect anyway.
No, not that bitter. I currently wear and like it and I had some nice bonding moments and discussions about it. I think it is a discussion worth having and I tried to Show the details as well as possible since these are often offered as all-original with the intention to fool someone. There are very good NOS and original pieces of 50+ year old watches available, just rare. Some models less than others. As pointed out in other comments, Seikos were used, not babied. It just depends what you are looking for and willing to pay. Hope we are on good terms,since I really appreciate your input! 😄
Thank you very much for sharing this video. I trusted the person I bought my Pogue from on a handshake. You helped me verify his integrity, along with other peer references ofc. Very informative video ❤
Brilliantly informative video mate. Really helpful for people with what to look for. However, I dont think its bad to own a watch with aftermarket parts. Many 6139's these days look horrendously mouldy, aged & crap after decades of aging. No one turns their nose up at a modded SKX. I personally had to upgrade mine to an NH36 for example after the 7s26 movement died. I then threw a sapphire crystal on as well. This is commonplace, so im not sure why pogue fans get so critical about pogues that have been restored & upgraded from looking like trash to like new again for a new owner. That being said, once you know what to look for, a decent all original specimen can be found. I recently picked up an all original blue variant. But I wouldn't be adverse to upgrading say the crystal if it got really scratched. Upgrading a seiko to prolong its life isnt a bad thing imo.
Thank you! It's true, I think the Pogue "suffers" from that historic relevance a bit there. Since there is a "true" Pogue out there, it means that you have a watch close to that and original or you don't. It doesn't make it any less silly, I know, but that's just some attempt at reasoning, why it's a thing with (yellow) Pogues. But I agree that a modern, modded or restored version aren't any less cool in my book at this point!
I think the watch is lovely & while not 100% original for €500 I think it's not a bad deal . You couldn't have an old abused one restored in Europe for the same money . Wear it and enjoy 😉
Nice video! I got out my True Pogue and followed along. Although, I quickly discovered I need to buy a loupe to see the small details. My Pouge would be the last to sell in my collection
Very informative! I will be making an offer on a Pogue with what I now realize are aftermarket parts based on the photos and thanks to this video, but now I do so with my eyes wide open, and I am ok with it.
I own a pogue which was my fathers. Of course I changed the dial and inner ring as they were almost destroyed. I don’t mind if they are not the original parts
I have for couple years almost Pogue as I like to call 6002 model. It now needs servicing, since bezel is missing and glass had to be replaced. Everything else is in perfect combination with some scratches on the case. I was thinking of refinishing the case but can’t decide if it would be a good idea.
It's your watch, so if you dislike the state of your case, prefer a newer look and trust the person refinishing it, you can go for it. I personally never buffed out scratches, that I made myself as I consider them as part If the journey! Enjoy your Pogue 🙌
@ thanks, I really appreciate comment. Even with scratches case is in the good shape, so maybe I can just replace o rings, crystal and put aftermarket bezel, since that’s only one I have. This way I can put original bezel and crystal if sometime I found it and will be all original. Thanks a lot for this video and for returning me to the right path.
About 2 years ago I found a dark blue example for only 160 bucks on fb marketplace. It looked really rough but after a good cleaning job it turned out to actually be in decent condition. And apart from an aftermarket minute chrono hand everything else looks legitimate. Probably my biggest lucky strike in regard with watches.
Good catch! Did you clean it up yourself? Asking because I think If you are skilled in watchmaking it must be fun to go for these surprise watches in particular 😄 for the average watch fan it just seems like a minefield nowadays. Thanks for sharing and enjoy your lucky Cevert!
Definitely better than no bezel insert! I understand the genuine need for these replacement parts, but it should be disclosed properly beforehand to avoid dissappointment and to stop any discussion from tiping towards the whole "Fake" argument
I for one am glad that well made pattern parts are so readily available. Original dials and hands at this age are likely to be a faded crumbling mess, and are no longer available from the factory. These parts allow us to bring our watches back to their former glory. If you were restoring a vintage car, you'd most likely be using non genuine after market body parts, trim and panels etc, so I really don't understand why watch enthusiasts get so precious about this.
I am with you. Better to have aftermarket parts than throw away a good watch! That said, looking for your first POGUE is a bit of a minefield if you do not know the telltale signs, since most sellers will not accurately point out the aftermarket parts beforehand. My Pogue is very much enjoyable for me, but the friend that sold it to me was also fully convinced that he has an all-original time capsule, which just happened to be pristine. He was a bit shocked to learn that it was _not_ all original.
I was just given one tonsweeten the deal on a 100neuro Desotos chronograph..and this video confirms...its 100% original 1970! Its missing pushers and the sub dial hand...but runs keeps time...looks fantastic ...cost 0!
If I was going to consider owning one of these.. I would want it to look new and the aftermarket parts would not bother me.. the lume would need to be good wherever it is applied. I've seen fully aftermarket offering ranging from $700 to $2000 but who could deny such a fine looking timepiece in their collection
That's a healthy approach in my opinion. There are good options out there, but I would personally not go beyond the 1000€ mark for an aftermarket dial one. That's a range where you can already get good original vintage SEIKOS from reputable dealers (maybe not pristine). Hope you find yours! Cheers
I ask many collectors not sellers..What is the problem of aftermarkets insert and dial?. Can it affect the performance of timekeeping?? When your dial is ruined, do you want to still use that?? Just like your car when scratched a lot..do you let that becoming worst ll the time?
Thanks! Indeed it is an obsession with originality, but I can understand and usually also seek that original condition, since it is a luxury item. But these come at a premium price and often are just not available. Since I do not own collector-grade cars, I struggle with the comparison to cars. I bet collectors of a vintage would prefer all original parts in most cases, but face the same problems with availibility&price. In short, no problem with aftermarket parts at all, if you know what you're getting.
Nice vid. I'm pretty new to the hobby, but is there anything wrong or a stigma with Frankensteining an old watch together? I really like this watch and was thinking of grabbing a 300 dollar poor condition one from ebay and then replacing the dial/bezel/hands from Seikosis so I could wear around my own handiwork. Or is this a crime that I'm not aware of in the watch world?
No, not a crime at all! As some watchmakers also pointed out to me after my video, it is near impossible to find some of the original spare parts, so aftermarket it is. Especially since you are going to work on it yourself makes it a cool project in my book. As a watchbuilding amateur, I myself wouldn't want to work with rare original parts on a DIY project 😄 In general, I own also another Frankenstein watch (Certina Chrinolympic) as well and love it. It tells its own story, but of course some are purists in this hobby that wouldn't touch it, since it is not 100% authentic condition. But that's everyone's own choice of happiness!
Sadly, it's part of the hobby and I have fallen to the fakes. C'est le vie. I have the blck dial 73 American Pogue which needs a service and serious TLC. Still love it and feel like a kid on Christmas Eve. Cheers 🙏
After tripping over the aftermarket parts involuntarily as well, I've made a hobby out of spotting the aftermarket parts on interesting listings and for anyone who cares, for example a friend of mine was interested in the Seiko "Sunrise" from 72, which is quite rare and therefore easily riddled with aftermarket parts as well. He went ahead with that model anyway, since he just enjoyed the aesthetics and the original movement inside. I think there is a lot of enjoyment to be had with these Seikos! Thank you for your comment! Cheers!
I've been the PROUD owner of SEIKO POGUE since 19 71 and its till keeps good time the DIAL HAVEN'T FADED AWAY LIKE YOU SEE IN MENNY UTHER PODCASTS its like the day I had it bought me.
Yes, deterioration is not a must for authenticity! Just sometimes it can be a factor towards a healthy "too good to be true" skepticism! I bet there are some pristine ones out there, which I guess, makes you a happy watch enthusiast in this case 👍 very cool to have some comments from 1st owners of a Pogue!
Wise words! I was blinded since I bought it from someone I have in high regard in terms of watches and who didn't want to fool me. Let's say we both learned a lot from this. (Same with the Edox Geoscope)... Thanks!
True, near impossible. I learned my lesson. But it is possible to get an appropriately aged one, at a price. It is interesting because other Brands/watch watch models can be found almost NOS, since they were just kept in a drawer, but Seikos....rarely. makes them even cooler in my book
@TiMEworn true picked up a pouge yard sale 25 dollars looked Grey like kids toy..opened back looked real so ordered new face dials bezels hands old ones were sun bleached..65 total parts then bold step took to my watch guy he looked at it opened it smiled yup real..but am satisfied ..and yes some watchs vintage there's still o.e. parts my speedmaster I have owned since 1978 I just had serviced there's still parts for it ..down side German vendors are very a...nice way to say it..Kurt with you
Wow, 25 bucks? That was a true find and rescue! Yes Omega is a good example. I have a 75 Seamaster and the Lemania based movement can be serviced easily but also hands etc are available. What do you mean by "Kurt" ? You can be straight forward with me 😄
@TiMEworn was trying to purchase a new bezel sent e mail asking if correct one for watch said to measure case know their metric and I have digital calipers sent picture of watch as measured with reading reply no that's wrong..I waited week..then sent further messages well ok what was wrong nothing ....tried another they measurement of inside of case...same result..then third one sent every pic I could of watch even opened up case ....well gave up but luckily my watch guy here has a supply house he buys direct..told him about my issue .he nodded so I assume he knows also
Should have been a straight forward answer but you never know who sits on the other side. Questions should always be OK and answered properly. Glad you managed in the end!
Everyone on the globe is unfamiliar with it. But the strange thing is, it even came with the matching burgundy red box. Thats what striked me and instead of going with an regular black and blue Pogue, I went for this exotic one. Probably I have to convert it back to original but for now I will wear it like that ☺️🥂
@@TiMEworn The inner bezel is grey and it is really a very awkward but at the same time cool appearance, as it is absolutely uncommon. White stop hand coated like a Moonwatch. Really wish I could upload a picture as an answer, so you see it.
Who cares!! It looks like a Pogue and so long as it keeps time why worry? Wear it and enjoy Myself after wearing mine for forty years and giving it a hard time, I had hardly any numbers left on the bezel, so an aftermarket insert makes it look fine (I still have the original bezel if needed). The spring barrel arbor holes were closed up and re-reamed. Watch keeps smack on time and although I live in Adelaide and can get to V.T.A. if needed, who is only about 20 kms away as yet the watch is keeping great time. Enjoy
Forty years! Great wrist companion. Makes even more sense to accept aftermarket parts, if you wore it so much that the bezel faded completely! I am now very much convinced that this IS my Pogue, despite any aftermarket parts 👍 Love it a lot
If You pay anywhere near the going price for an original youre throwing money down the drain! If you want something that looks like a brand new watch and have the money to spare then go ahead And enjoy but dont try to comvince yourself or anyone else that is knowledgeable that the watch is Authentic !
I do not agree fully, an all-original watch has its appeal (and is not money down the drain, If you enjoy it that much) and I would not mind it having a few scratches. There are vintage models that are well preserved and still reasonably priced, but I agree, the Pogue is too famous for that! In this case, I was blind because I thought that the seller was more knowledgable than me... Turns out we both fell for simplest mistake: the uninformed impulse-buy 😅
Now I catch your drift! Paying "original" price for a refurbished one would be a damn shame indeed and a real problem, as a lot of these are declared as "all-original" online. I payed a "friends price",which ended up being an OK price for an Aftermarket piece, so we were able to stay friends after all 😆 Thanks for elaborating and sorry for not getting your initial comment 100% !
"Nice watch" "Thank you" "Is it real?" Always the way it goes isn't it. With seikos reliably, unreliable quality control, you could probably make a case that William Pogue's watch was a fake too. Its a beautiful thing, aftermarket or not.
Highly subjective indeed! If a car had a (major) accident, it should be disclosed during the sale. If a non-original dial is considered major in the watch world is the subjective part, in my opinion. I'd rather compare an aftermarket dial it with a 3rd party body kit on a classic car. Just not 💯 ,but definitely enjoyable.What's your stance?
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but the case has also been refinished. The top of the case is brushed correctly, however the tops of the lugs (the sloped angled parts) are supposed to be polished, the ones here are brushed. There are quite a few people that refinish these cases quite well now, so looking for sharp edges isn’t enough anymore. Odd that whoever did the case work did a decent job at getting the sharpness right but messed up the pattern of the finishing. But sad to report the condition of the case is consistent with the rest of the aftermarket bits. Insane how hard it is to get a good one of these now. Your only bet really is to frequent antiques shops and hope you find someone who doesn’t know what they’ve got
Not bad news at all (at this point 😄)! I am thankful for the additional clue/piece of evidence. I was already very sceptical that the case should be genuine when the rest isn't. I appreciate your contribution, Thanks!
Were you thinking that this was original? I don't have a problem restoring watches and I'm glad they have the parts to do so, assuming you know what you' re buying. It would be like buying a vintage car and assuming it's "original" and still looks like new. But you should know to check the body for bondo, etc. These watches were worn and worn well. There are a ton of really bad looking dials and inner bezels that are original, but the case and the movement are still viable. So, either wear a watch that works but looks terrible or restore it. And with a gold dial like this, a big part of the attraction is the gold dial with the pepsi bezel combination. It looks beautiful. It's got the original body and engine, but needed some cosmetic restoration. I don't think it's a bad thing. It's not 100% original, but how original is a car you modify and add wheels, engine enhancements, etc? Is your Mustang still a Mustang with different wheels, racing seats, engine performance? Yes, it is. Is this still a Seiko 6139 Pogue? Yes it is. Is it concours level/museum level original? No. But the watch was probably really bad and somebody restored it the best they can with the parts available. You're right, if you want it to be "original" then prepare to pay a lot more $. After all, it's about 50 years old.
I did think it was original, since I had the "false security" buying from a friend with exquisite taste and longtime knowledge. Anyway I myself used to focus on vintage watch models that were very niche or unpopular (or not that easy to spot aftermarket parts 😋)where true new old stock pieces are actually available. Seiko Pogue or even the Edox Geoscope were eye openers in that regard. No problem with a restored watch! It's a journey I have to take, where there are many pitfalls. Eben though I suspected aftermarketery, it took me a while lot more to actually get the details of how to spot the aftermarket parts. Probably an easy feat for Vintage watchmakers, but very difficult for the layman enthusiaste like me! Thus, I appreciate the knowledgable comments like yours a lot!
Appreciate your video! @@TiMEworn
I want one, but it’s a minefield out there. I personally think your pogue is very nice looking and would definitely buy a serviced model with an aftermarket face lift. But it’s up to us to become more knowledgeable and then make our own informed decision. Thanks for your vid 👍
@adrianhargreaves2854 Thank you for the kind words! I very much agree and hope you find your ideal Pogue!
@@TiMEworn thanks mate 👍 hopefully I will.
I have a Pepsi Pogue that I personally have owned since 1972 and had it serviced in 2022 and have only worn it a few times since. A fine watch. It was my go-to through USAF pilot training through the first Gulf War and Bosnia deployment before stopping and going in a drawer for another twenty years. I am so glad that the rebuild parts for the seals were available on eBay as Seiko no longer had them. A great watch!
An impressive story behind your Pogue! A true wrist companion and good to hear that a repair was and is still possible
Nearly all Pogues ive seen are super beaten up or redial with aftermarket parts.. Never seen a SINGLE clean Pogue for sale in over 6 years... 😂 great video showcasing details to look out for!
It is true! As a viewer pointed out on my other video, these were tool watches and used as intended, not babied or stored for future generations with papers and box etc. Still I was suprised about the level of detail here.
Glad you enjoyed the video and thanks for your comment!
Even classic cars have parts changed. Great looking watch!
Thank you! I like the comparison with classic cars
I am a watchmaker by trade, I have over a dozen of these and in my 40 + years at the bench have noticed significant fading,clear coming off, lume gone black, the list goes on. Aftermarket is the right way to go, you cannot buy original parts. You can however source very good copies of the bezel insert and also the entire bezel. The hands you can buy are great, but NEVER use the aftermarket sweep hand as they do not work, also the tear crop hand is a fit once only item, you cannot remove and replace as you would an OEM because the material quality is just not there, but the min and hr hands are great. If someone wants a nice watch with a dial and bezel that have had the shit beat out of them for 50 years then that's their choice.
Remember, this technology is no longer required, we all have phones or smart watches that do far more than these old things. So what does it matter if some things are slightly off? Personally, I would prefer all my watches to be restored as close to original as possible and for them to look like brand new. I use only high end aftermarket stuff and I won't complain about such minor things as indices being slightly off, who cares, the technology is 50 years old. They are used as a dress watch these days, NOT for yachting.
Your points on the scarcity of original parts or the impossibility to have some original parts as replacement make complete sense. It was still a revelation to me, how much was aftermarket in this watch. I only found out because I put the watch out there and did more research afterwards (especially since I try to be transparent and not mislead anyone). I liked and still enjoy the watch visually, that's why I bought it in the first place from a friend. He wasn't aware either. It's just good to know pre-purchase. I like a bit of wear and tear if it means that the watch is still all original, but I also try to get well-preserved originals, which at the price point of this Pogue should have already been impossible or a major indicator for aftermarket pieces. Knowledge is key. Hope it did not come off as if I was trying to bash anyone for having or using aftermarket parts!
Thanks for your comment!
One of your points is the rings in the sub-dial, the Pogue did leave Seiko with no rings, early versions only. I have one on my bench currently. Sometimes these dials are so hard to detect, the only true method is base materials used, most aftermarket use aluminum, the more expensive use brass just like the originals, what they don't have however is Seiko's stamp on them. The only serious thing that truly shows yours is a copy is the lume. No company ever produced shiny lume, it was Radium back then and it is a very dull, yet corrosive finish. I purposely remove the lume from aftermarket dials and replace it with Bergeon lume. Also, as someone else in the comments mentioned, your case has not been restored correctly. I would suggest your next purchase to be either, a well informed one, or buy from a reputable seller who offers a warranty of no less than 12 months, like me. Not many people will replace Seiko's original 12 month warranty 50+ years later :)
Exactly! Thank you for adding your experience to this comment Threads!
Indeed this was an impulse buy from a friend, rather than an informed purchase from a reputable dealer. Could have been avoided 😅
@@TiMEworn You seem a little bitter over this, which basically means you're not picking up the signals I am sending :)
There is nothing at all wrong with your watch, sure the indices may be slightly off and it shows aftermarket lume, but what would 'you' prefer to look at, a nice looking replica of a famous dial, that reflect exactly as the OEM ones did, or look at a beaten to all hell and back dial that is faded/grubby and generally abused? The gold Sunburst dial works just as well as Seiko's did. I had a number of NOS dials from the 6002 series, I compared them to the copies and both under artificial light and daylight, the reflection was the same. I'm sure as demand climbs, better products will become available, but here's the kicker, who, other than you, looks that close? No one walks around with a magnifying glass ready and willing to seize your wrist and inspect for aftermarket parts.
Stop your analytical pursuit of perfection, it will never happen with a 50+ year old watch, be happy that A: it has the OEM sweep hand. B:it has good quality replacement min/hr hands. C: The bezel from 6 inches away would never be picked as a copy, D: the inner bezel you also state is aftermarket and you say this like it's a bad thing, it's not a bad thing, they work and better yet are UV protected, unlike the OEM counterparts. Of course there are good ones and bad ones, the bad ones fade pretty fast, the good ones are only a few $$ extra and will outlast the originals by decades.
Are there better dials than yours? Sure there are, but so what, Seiko quality had their issues also.
Just enjoy the watch, remember how you felt the first day you saw it, and stay feeling that way, it is a nice passable restoration of a watch that NEVER left the factory perfect anyway.
No, not that bitter. I currently wear and like it and I had some nice bonding moments and discussions about it. I think it is a discussion worth having and I tried to Show the details as well as possible since these are often offered as all-original with the intention to fool someone. There are very good NOS and original pieces of 50+ year old watches available, just rare. Some models less than others. As pointed out in other comments, Seikos were used, not babied. It just depends what you are looking for and willing to pay.
Hope we are on good terms,since I really appreciate your input! 😄
Thank you very much for sharing this video.
I trusted the person I bought my Pogue from on a handshake. You helped me verify his integrity, along with other peer references ofc.
Very informative video ❤
Love to hear that I could provide some value to your collecting journey 🙌
Also glad your Pogue is what you wanted it to be!
Brilliantly informative video mate. Really helpful for people with what to look for.
However, I dont think its bad to own a watch with aftermarket parts. Many 6139's these days look horrendously mouldy, aged & crap after decades of aging. No one turns their nose up at a modded SKX. I personally had to upgrade mine to an NH36 for example after the 7s26 movement died. I then threw a sapphire crystal on as well. This is commonplace, so im not sure why pogue fans get so critical about pogues that have been restored & upgraded from looking like trash to like new again for a new owner.
That being said, once you know what to look for, a decent all original specimen can be found. I recently picked up an all original blue variant. But I wouldn't be adverse to upgrading say the crystal if it got really scratched. Upgrading a seiko to prolong its life isnt a bad thing imo.
Thank you!
It's true, I think the Pogue "suffers" from that historic relevance a bit there. Since there is a "true" Pogue out there, it means that you have a watch close to that and original or you don't. It doesn't make it any less silly, I know, but that's just some attempt at reasoning, why it's a thing with (yellow) Pogues.
But I agree that a modern, modded or restored version aren't any less cool in my book at this point!
I think the watch is lovely & while not 100% original for €500 I think it's not a bad deal . You couldn't have an old abused one restored in Europe for the same money . Wear it and enjoy 😉
Thanks! I enjoy the words of confidence since I really like the watch a lot despite the little hiccups (which were my fault to overlook).
Great video explaining....to me the most obvious sign is the like-new appearance of the dial. Any OEM 6139 would have aging signs to some extent.
Thanks! Yes, well spotted! If it seems too good to be true....
Nice video! I got out my True Pogue and followed along. Although, I quickly discovered I need to buy a loupe to see the small details. My Pouge would be the last to sell in my collection
True Pogue 😍 glad you liked it and I would definitely hang in to your Pogue gem!
Very informative! I will be making an offer on a Pogue with what I now realize are aftermarket parts based on the photos and thanks to this video, but now I do so with my eyes wide open, and I am ok with it.
Thanks! This is the ideal way to go in my opinion. Hope you're able to strike a good deal on your Pogue!
I own a pogue which was my fathers. Of course I changed the dial and inner ring as they were almost destroyed. I don’t mind if they are not the original parts
Legacy lives on, that's the important bit! Love to hear the heirloom stories. That's what I look for with my own kid 👍
Nicht ärgern! Der Preis ist in Ordnung und eine Geschichte kann die Uhr allemal erzählen! Es bleibt eine schöne Sommeruhr!
Das ist der Plan! Schön aus der Community zu hören, dass du/Ihr es auch so seht! Vielen Dank dafür
I have for couple years almost Pogue as I like to call 6002 model.
It now needs servicing, since bezel is missing and glass had to be replaced.
Everything else is in perfect combination with some scratches on the case.
I was thinking of refinishing the case but can’t decide if it would be a good idea.
It's your watch, so if you dislike the state of your case, prefer a newer look and trust the person refinishing it, you can go for it. I personally never buffed out scratches, that I made myself as I consider them as part If the journey! Enjoy your Pogue 🙌
@ thanks, I really appreciate comment.
Even with scratches case is in the good shape, so maybe I can just replace o rings, crystal and put aftermarket bezel, since that’s only one I have.
This way I can put original bezel and crystal if sometime I found it and will be all original.
Thanks a lot for this video and for returning me to the right path.
@stevan367 thank you! I think many will enjoy your comment/path as well!
About 2 years ago I found a dark blue example for only 160 bucks on fb marketplace. It looked really rough but after a good cleaning job it turned out to actually be in decent condition. And apart from an aftermarket minute chrono hand everything else looks legitimate. Probably my biggest lucky strike in regard with watches.
Good catch! Did you clean it up yourself? Asking because I think If you are skilled in watchmaking it must be fun to go for these surprise watches in particular 😄 for the average watch fan it just seems like a minefield nowadays.
Thanks for sharing and enjoy your lucky Cevert!
This has been one of my all-time favorite watches.... style, look, and history.
On my second one.
The first one went swimming UGH.
😅
Agreed!
Oh well, it is a watch of action, soooo...😄
I'll take the aftermarket replacement bezel insert no problem, I'll replace a scratched up one anyways.
Definitely better than no bezel insert! I understand the genuine need for these replacement parts, but it should be disclosed properly beforehand to avoid dissappointment and to stop any discussion from tiping towards the whole "Fake" argument
BTW, The "True Pogue" is a resist dial 6009 US model purchased in Texas. The 6005 is the world model.
From what I gathered, it was a 6139-6005 model (this was the American version) and had a 6009T dial.
6009 was the original US model... It was replaced by the 6005.
I for one am glad that well made pattern parts are so readily available. Original dials and hands at this age are likely to be a faded crumbling mess, and are no longer available from the factory. These parts allow us to bring our watches back to their former glory. If you were restoring a vintage car, you'd most likely be using non genuine after market body parts, trim and panels etc, so I really don't understand why watch enthusiasts get so precious about this.
I am with you. Better to have aftermarket parts than throw away a good watch!
That said, looking for your first POGUE is a bit of a minefield if you do not know the telltale signs, since most sellers will not accurately point out the aftermarket parts beforehand. My Pogue is very much enjoyable for me, but the friend that sold it to me was also fully convinced that he has an all-original time capsule, which just happened to be pristine. He was a bit shocked to learn that it was _not_ all original.
I was just given one tonsweeten the deal on a 100neuro Desotos chronograph..and this video confirms...its 100% original 1970! Its missing pushers and the sub dial hand...but runs keeps time...looks fantastic
...cost 0!
That sounds great!! Will you restore it? Hope you find some good parts and enjoy it alongside your Desotos!
@@TiMEworn I'm wearing it today! Yes will try to get it serviced and find some original parts..its running well!
If I was going to consider owning one of these.. I would want it to look new and the aftermarket parts would not bother me.. the lume would need to be good wherever it is applied.
I've seen fully aftermarket offering ranging from $700 to $2000 but who could deny such a fine looking timepiece in their collection
That's a healthy approach in my opinion. There are good options out there, but I would personally not go beyond the 1000€ mark for an aftermarket dial one. That's a range where you can already get good original vintage SEIKOS from reputable dealers (maybe not pristine). Hope you find yours! Cheers
I ask many collectors not sellers..What is the problem of aftermarkets insert and dial?. Can it affect the performance of timekeeping?? When your dial is ruined, do you want to still use that?? Just like your car when scratched a lot..do you let that becoming worst ll the time?
Thanks! Indeed it is an obsession with originality, but I can understand and usually also seek that original condition, since it is a luxury item. But these come at a premium price and often are just not available. Since I do not own collector-grade cars, I struggle with the comparison to cars. I bet collectors of a vintage would prefer all original parts in most cases, but face the same problems with availibility&price.
In short, no problem with aftermarket parts at all, if you know what you're getting.
Nice vid. I'm pretty new to the hobby, but is there anything wrong or a stigma with Frankensteining an old watch together? I really like this watch and was thinking of grabbing a 300 dollar poor condition one from ebay and then replacing the dial/bezel/hands from Seikosis so I could wear around my own handiwork. Or is this a crime that I'm not aware of in the watch world?
No, not a crime at all! As some watchmakers also pointed out to me after my video, it is near impossible to find some of the original spare parts, so aftermarket it is. Especially since you are going to work on it yourself makes it a cool project in my book. As a watchbuilding amateur, I myself wouldn't want to work with rare original parts on a DIY project 😄
In general, I own also another Frankenstein watch (Certina Chrinolympic) as well and love it. It tells its own story, but of course some are purists in this hobby that wouldn't touch it, since it is not 100% authentic condition. But that's everyone's own choice of happiness!
Great video thank you 🙏🏻
Thank you! Really appreciate the support 🙏🏻
AAWW man i thought mine was genuine, glad i didnt pay too much, £300, great video thank you
That's a fair price for a nice Pogue with some aftermarket parts. I paid 500€ and enjoy it a lot
Sadly, it's part of the hobby and I have fallen to the fakes. C'est le vie. I have the blck dial 73 American Pogue which needs a service and serious TLC. Still love it and feel like a kid on Christmas Eve. Cheers 🙏
After tripping over the aftermarket parts involuntarily as well, I've made a hobby out of spotting the aftermarket parts on interesting listings and for anyone who cares, for example a friend of mine was interested in the Seiko "Sunrise" from 72, which is quite rare and therefore easily riddled with aftermarket parts as well. He went ahead with that model anyway, since he just enjoyed the aesthetics and the original movement inside. I think there is a lot of enjoyment to be had with these Seikos! Thank you for your comment! Cheers!
Thank you, very helpful.
Much appreciated!
The case has lost its shape, it was polished well but the sides are supposed to have a slight bevel
I've been the PROUD owner of SEIKO POGUE since 19 71 and its till keeps good time the DIAL HAVEN'T FADED AWAY LIKE YOU SEE IN MENNY UTHER PODCASTS its like the day I had it bought me.
Yes, deterioration is not a must for authenticity! Just sometimes it can be a factor towards a healthy "too good to be true" skepticism! I bet there are some pristine ones out there, which I guess, makes you a happy watch enthusiast in this case 👍 very cool to have some comments from 1st owners of a Pogue!
Still looks good.
Thank you, I appreciate it !
Nice video thanks!
Thanks a lot!
Another giveaway is the shiny lume of the indices which should be coarse.
True! But I found it to be a hint only, as new lume could have been (badly) added to an original dial as well, right?
If the condition is too good you have to be a lot more cautious.
Wise words! I was blinded since I bought it from someone I have in high regard in terms of watches and who didn't want to fool me. Let's say we both learned a lot from this. (Same with the Edox Geoscope)... Thanks!
There are no o.e faces or hands bezels avaliable..after market are avaliable india..Malaysia
True, near impossible. I learned my lesson. But it is possible to get an appropriately aged one, at a price. It is interesting because other Brands/watch watch models can be found almost NOS, since they were just kept in a drawer, but Seikos....rarely. makes them even cooler in my book
@TiMEworn true picked up a pouge yard sale 25 dollars looked Grey like kids toy..opened back looked real so ordered new face dials bezels hands old ones were sun bleached..65 total parts then bold step took to my watch guy he looked at it opened it smiled yup real..but am satisfied ..and yes some watchs vintage there's still o.e. parts my speedmaster I have owned since 1978 I just had serviced there's still parts for it ..down side German vendors are very a...nice way to say it..Kurt with you
Wow, 25 bucks? That was a true find and rescue!
Yes Omega is a good example. I have a 75 Seamaster and the Lemania based movement can be serviced easily but also hands etc are available.
What do you mean by "Kurt" ? You can be straight forward with me 😄
@TiMEworn was trying to purchase a new bezel sent e mail asking if correct one for watch said to measure case know their metric and I have digital calipers sent picture of watch as measured with reading reply no that's wrong..I waited week..then sent further messages well ok what was wrong nothing ....tried another they measurement of inside of case...same result..then third one sent every pic I could of watch even opened up case ....well gave up but luckily my watch guy here has a supply house he buys direct..told him about my issue .he nodded so I assume he knows also
Should have been a straight forward answer but you never know who sits on the other side. Questions should always be OK and answered properly. Glad you managed in the end!
Fake or not , it's a beautiful watch 👍
Thanks to comments like yours, my initial shock is niw long gone and I enjoy it a lot! Cheers!
I bought one with the red dial.
Red dial? 😅 I think I am unfamiliar
Everyone on the globe is unfamiliar with it. But the strange thing is, it even came with the matching burgundy red box. Thats what striked me and instead of going with an regular black and blue Pogue, I went for this exotic one. Probably I have to convert it back to original but for now I will wear it like that ☺️🥂
Interesting, what is the inner bezel like? Red as well? Like the red in the Tachymeter bezel? If you like the look, why not!
@@TiMEworn The inner bezel is grey and it is really a very awkward but at the same time cool appearance, as it is absolutely uncommon. White stop hand coated like a Moonwatch. Really wish I could upload a picture as an answer, so you see it.
@Mthusiast4life Sounds fun. I have an email address in my channel description if you'd like to send a picture 😄👍 thanks for sharing!
Mine is has some AF PARTS BUT NEVER SELLING ❤
Same here! Just enjoying it as it is 🙌
Who cares!! It looks like a Pogue and so long as it keeps time why worry? Wear it and enjoy Myself after wearing mine for forty years and giving it a hard time, I had hardly any numbers left on the bezel, so an aftermarket insert makes it look fine (I still have the original bezel if needed). The spring barrel arbor holes were closed up and re-reamed. Watch keeps smack on time and although I live in Adelaide and can get to V.T.A. if needed, who is only about 20 kms away as yet the watch is keeping great time. Enjoy
Forty years! Great wrist companion. Makes even more sense to accept aftermarket parts, if you wore it so much that the bezel faded completely! I am now very much convinced that this IS my Pogue, despite any aftermarket parts 👍 Love it a lot
If You pay anywhere near the going price for an original youre throwing money down the drain! If you want something that looks like a brand new watch and have the money to spare then go ahead And enjoy but dont try to comvince yourself or anyone else that is knowledgeable that the watch is Authentic !
I do not agree fully, an all-original watch has its appeal (and is not money down the drain, If you enjoy it that much) and I would not mind it having a few scratches. There are vintage models that are well preserved and still reasonably priced, but I agree, the Pogue is too famous for that! In this case, I was blind because I thought that the seller was more knowledgable than me... Turns out we both fell for simplest mistake: the uninformed impulse-buy 😅
If you pay as much for A Refurbished watch As an all original model and you have the money then it is priceless to you So enjoy?
If you can afford it then by all means Enjoy! That's what watch collecting is all about
Now I catch your drift! Paying "original" price for a refurbished one would be a damn shame indeed and a real problem, as a lot of these are declared as "all-original" online.
I payed a "friends price",which ended up being an OK price for an Aftermarket piece, so we were able to stay friends after all 😆
Thanks for elaborating and sorry for not getting your initial comment 100% !
"Nice watch"
"Thank you"
"Is it real?"
Always the way it goes isn't it.
With seikos reliably, unreliable quality control, you could probably make a case that William Pogue's watch was a fake too.
Its a beautiful thing, aftermarket or not.
Yes indeed! But only enthusiasts ask those questions for Seikos (rightfully so).
It is and I feel the need to put it on right now 😄 thanks!
buying repainted car is ok, buying repainted watch is a crime...lol, what a joke
Highly subjective indeed! If a car had a (major) accident, it should be disclosed during the sale. If a non-original dial is considered major in the watch world is the subjective part, in my opinion. I'd rather compare an aftermarket dial it with a 3rd party body kit on a classic car. Just not 💯 ,but definitely enjoyable.What's your stance?