We stopped using GAF about 3 years ago when we started coming up short on almost every job. We thought the crew was throwing them away, because they charge by the bundle. Finally narrowed it down it only happening on jobs we used GAF. Started counting all the bundles and there were 18 in every bundle. Stopped using them completely, and haven't had issue since. Sticking with Atlas, and O.C.
I’ve recreated several pull test, and still haven’t found a product in its class that beats the IKO Dynasty. Seeing it at #1 doesn’t surprise me! 22:33
I would love to see IKO designer Shingle lines be thrown in this comparison such as Armour Shake, Royal Estate, and Crown Slate to see how they rank compared to other brands, or if you could do a video of all the different manufacture designer/Luxury lines of shingles and how they compare to each other.
Very good video! I really appreciate the work that you do, even though I don’t always agree. You have brought a new level of accountability to installers and manufacturers and the industry desperately needed this. Thanks again!
I will say it until I see it included….. you have a whole network of roofers there, yet no one, not a single roofer, who tear off roofs everyday, have once mentioned age of the roofs they tore off, and the performance. LONGEVITY….. I pull malarkey legacy at 22 years and it’s starting to show matte, I pull pabco premier at 27 years, still performing…. I haven’t torn of a pabco prestige but have seen them at 22 years and they still look new….. OC duration pulled at 2 years on the oregon coast due to massive pitting, and that’s not the only time. Have seen OC fail on several occasions in salt air. GAF pulled at 15 years with severe granule loss and matte showing. Pulled certainteed at 18 years due to granule loss/shingle failure at 11 years and the hardest warranty coverage imaginable. These are the topics I’d like to see from fellow roofers that are tearing roofs everyday. Really easy to track the age and see where the longevity lies. That’s what separates a good shingle from a great shingle! For example, I went from Installing pabco everyday to vista…. It is still tough for me to do, but it’s due to what you find in your tests that keep me from installing it. It’s safety from granule loss, and the difficult common bond area. Horrible to nail. Pull more shingles due to low nails than vista, where it’s virtually non existent. What’s hard for me is pabco is bullet proof…. The shingles last longer that any of the other shingles out there and that’s from field experience that I’m pulling everyday! I love seeing how long shingles last so I can tell my customers exactly how long their roof is goi g to last them in brutal salt conditions. Not many roofers even care about that. They care about the manufacturing process and judge a product strictly off a new shingle…. Go pull em and test that! That gives true affirmation to manufacturing successes and failures!
Our company is installing Atlas. They make a good shingle. That sealant is crazy goopy. Make it real tough to do repairs. They actually honor their warranties. Even a 300+ square job when the dye lot wasn’t consistent, just an aesthetic defect. They say they fixed their StormMaster formula. The ones from 8-5 years ago are prone to blistering. So watch for that.
Hi, I am in north central FL, our roof (shingle) was installed in 2006 when the house was built. The roof is not leaking and we have no problems except for the gutters filling with pebbles from the shingles, I know it about time to have it replaced. A local roofer (Hill Roofing) was highly recommended, he came out and said we are looking at 43 square at a cost of $18k. He said he uses Atlas pristine shingles, mainly because it is better for no mildew forming. I asked about the storm Master, he said that would be a special order and shipping would be expensive. In your opinion, is the differance in money worth paying for the storm master? Thanks, great videos.
Thank you for doing this vid! I’m in the market for a replacement roof and I know nothing. I was going to go with Pabco Prestige, but I will now go with Certainteed Pro. Your videos have really helped me to understand warranties, finding a roofer, and what questions to ask. I’ve taken notes and meeting with another roofer this week. Thank you again!
Thank you for sharing such a great information! One question, how does Tamko Titan XP rates and compares to the other shingles (Is the "Product of the Year Award" misleading, since I don't see them in your list of the 96 & 97 points)? Also, do you have a recommendation for installers in Oldsmar, FL (Tampa Bay area)?
Great info thanks. I'm looking at getting a new roof install this year after 18 years. I needed info so I know what to buy and avoid for roofing company's use.
In previous videos there was a score for each product in each category. Is that available somewhere? It helps in determining which product may fit best for a particular geographic location.
I have told so many 30 year old+ 3 tab roof home owners that they don't need a new roof. There's no leaking, no shingle lifting, cracking, nothing. 3-tab shingles used to be made soooo good. I think manufacturers aren't selling them because they need planned obsolescence and they don't sell enough roofing when 3 tab lasts a long time. So sell architectural shingles that die out in 25-30 years and sell more material over time.
My recommended Roofing Contractors: directorii.com Business/Media Requests with Dmitry: dmitrylipinskiy.com/ Online Roofing Business School For Roofers: Roofing-school.com Dmitry's one on one Mentorship and Rebranding: www.mymarketingfitness.com/
If you install them to spec(starter on the rakes) the tamko titan xt have a 160mph wind rating. I don't believe any other shingle offers that a wind rating that high. I install a ton of them in the Midwest and they're pretty tough. I only use the titan line, not the heritage line. They did revamp manufacturing for all their products in the last few years.
I was looking to see if you could recommend a roofing contractor in my area. I have been reviewing roofing material videos for the past 2 weeks and have found your info extremely helpful in making preliminary decisions on products to use and not use. If you could let me know how I could go about receiving your feedback on roofing contractors in my area, I would greatly appreciate the advice on who I should look into for a quote. Thank you again for your feedback, it helps the common home owner make informed decisions.
Thank you for this very informative video. I will be having a roof installed next month. One roofer raved about Owens Corning Duration as the best for our home at $23,500. He finally dropped down to Oak Ridge to keep the price down to $15,900. The second roofer offered Atlas Pinnacle Pristine for $11300 less than roofer #1"s Duration. He also said I could substitute Duration for an additional $300.. I definitely am going with roofer #2, as they are highly regarded here in The Villages, and they install 75% of new construction roofs for The Villages. In your opinion, What shingle would be my best choice? Thanks!
I agree malarkey is probably the best for the money but as an installer & it's so grainy and gooey it's crazy 😐. I like oc durations all across the board hope to see OC flex next year.
I would love to see Malarkey Highlander next year i saw Legacy Vista and Windsor but i would love to see Highlander in it, great to see Malarkey rating high on the scale
I'm considering having the Atlas Storm Master Shake shingles installed. I know the warranty is 30 years, but in reality, assuming they are properly installed, how long can I expect these shingles to last?
Thank you for this video and review. I knew zero about roofing and had some damage to my roof from a tornado this past July. It's taking some time to work through the insurance issue, but I'm trying to learn. I am looking for a contractor you would recommend in the Des Moines, Iowa, area.
Based on my own hands on experience, I believe OC Duration Flex are the best value for the cost. I'd be curious what you'd rate them at out of 100, Dmitry?
@@RoofingInsights3.0 you can’t give IKO Dynasty and IKO Nordic the same rating. Dynasty is the same as Cambridge with the armorzone strip on the back. Nordic has the strip and SBS granules. It’s far better than dynasty.
Owens Corning Duration seems to get criticized for rusted nails at the 14 minute mark of the video. However, Owens Corning Oakridge gets a score of 92?
@@scottpelley7372 3tab shingles are thinner than a laminated shingle so this can’t be true. When a hail rock hits the shingle it pushes it in and allows water to go through. The thicker the shingle the longer this will take.
If you had to give Tamko XT premium Architectural shingles a rating today what would it be please? Because I have a insurance claim roof that needs to be installed and this is the shingles they want to use. Your feedback will be greatly appreciated and thank you for your time in advance.
Great video! Now I want to see the full video of the roofers and manufacturer meet up at Eustis 😩 Will that ever happen? Seems like there was some great info shared at that event and we only got a snippet of it 😉
Hail resistance is not the only thing we look at, they blow off easy with wind, don’t look as good and very light overall to rank higher in other tests
So has IKO fixed their granule loss? Imo they have the best color line, but I have not offered them to our customers because of their terrible history.
There's no Quality control with Certainteed landmark shingles....and still raising prices. It seems like the higher the price goes the worst the quality...
OC Duration has a major problem with the cloth strip not lining up with the common bond. Sometimes, you only have about a 3/8" area where you can drive the nail. You absolutely cannot nail anywhere on the strip, which is in direct contradiction to what they claim. CALL THEM OUT!
Do you happen to know which brand has the largest common bond area? We're about to replace our roof & that's honestly one of my biggest concerns. I want the installers to hit the common bond area!
not sure the new ranking system does an effective job differentiating quality when every product is grouped within 6 points on a scale of 100. Might as well throw a dart.
@@RoofingInsights3.0 “end of story” is a very strong reaction. You definitely do an amazing job. But that isn’t how high level dialogue happens. GAF Grand Sequoia is FAR thicker than ALL the shingles on your list and it has SBS granules. To compare them to the other makes no sense. You should rate designer shingles separately which is where this shingle lands. It’s like comparing a corvette to a Ferrari. It’s not even close.
Doesn’t even review titan xd or ANYTHING from GAF ??? How are you going to leave out one of the top 3 largest shingle companies in the US ? This dude is obviously paid by one of GAFs competitors, and I’m assuming it’s not Tamko.
I have watched the Trends on this site. Seems through Lawyers and $$$ the reviews are swinging toward what the Vendor Wants. Does not seem authentic or honest like it once was say 3-4 years ago.
Fundamentally shingles are a terrible design. For every 1000 sq ft of roof, you will need approx 3200 nails put through the shingles and the underlayment. I'm surprised the shingles industry exists at all.
@@RoofingInsights3.0 as a minimum individual roofers, not the roofing company, should be trained and certified by the manufacturer whose product they are installing. The product alternatives currently are slate and tile which are pretty much the same design since Roman times. Why cant the roofing industry design a product that performs and lasts without the installation and performance issues. That's what you should ask your invited manufacturers.
Thank you for sharing your insightful video and for including IKO in your rankings! We appreciate the feedback from you, roofers and homeowners.
The video we have all been waiting for!!! New format and new hair! Kick ass!
Oh my, so many products by so many manufacturers!
Is there a link to a pdf of your scoring sheet for this comparison?
We stopped using GAF about 3 years ago when we started coming up short on almost every job. We thought the crew was throwing them away, because they charge by the bundle. Finally narrowed it down it only happening on jobs we used GAF. Started counting all the bundles and there were 18 in every bundle. Stopped using them completely, and haven't had issue since. Sticking with Atlas, and O.C.
I’ve recreated several pull test, and still haven’t found a product in its class that beats the IKO Dynasty. Seeing it at #1 doesn’t surprise me! 22:33
@@bmusercrs YESSSIR. We love these in the Ny/NJ area👊🏼🔥
I appreciate the shingle report! We install Owens coring duration as our base package. We allow customers to upgrade from there.
I would love to see IKO designer Shingle lines be thrown in this comparison such as Armour Shake, Royal Estate, and Crown Slate to see how they rank compared to other brands, or if you could do a video of all the different manufacture designer/Luxury lines of shingles and how they compare to each other.
Very good video! I really appreciate the work that you do, even though I don’t always agree. You have brought a new level of accountability to installers and manufacturers and the industry desperately needed this. Thanks again!
Thank you very much for feedback!
I will say it until I see it included….. you have a whole network of roofers there, yet no one, not a single roofer, who tear off roofs everyday, have once mentioned age of the roofs they tore off, and the performance.
LONGEVITY….. I pull malarkey legacy at 22 years and it’s starting to show matte, I pull pabco premier at 27 years, still performing…. I haven’t torn of a pabco prestige but have seen them at 22 years and they still look new….. OC duration pulled at 2 years on the oregon coast due to massive pitting, and that’s not the only time. Have seen OC fail on several occasions in salt air. GAF pulled at 15 years with severe granule loss and matte showing. Pulled certainteed at 18 years due to granule loss/shingle failure at 11 years and the hardest warranty coverage imaginable.
These are the topics I’d like to see from fellow roofers that are tearing roofs everyday. Really easy to track the age and see where the longevity lies. That’s what separates a good shingle from a great shingle!
For example, I went from Installing pabco everyday to vista…. It is still tough for me to do, but it’s due to what you find in your tests that keep me from installing it. It’s safety from granule loss, and the difficult common bond area. Horrible to nail. Pull more shingles due to low nails than vista, where it’s virtually non existent. What’s hard for me is pabco is bullet proof…. The shingles last longer that any of the other shingles out there and that’s from field experience that I’m pulling everyday! I love seeing how long shingles last so I can tell my customers exactly how long their roof is goi g to last them in brutal salt conditions. Not many roofers even care about that. They care about the manufacturing process and judge a product strictly off a new shingle…. Go pull em and test that! That gives true affirmation to manufacturing successes and failures!
Your video was so good. Really applaud you for going the extra mile to review manufactures and their various grades. Keep up the good work.
18:50 I agree. I’ve noticed jobs being very short on GAF.
Many people report this. Smaller exposure and not true square, it’s a simple math.
We don’t. 🤷🏼
Our company is installing Atlas. They make a good shingle. That sealant is crazy goopy. Make it real tough to do repairs. They actually honor their warranties. Even a 300+ square job when the dye lot wasn’t consistent, just an aesthetic defect. They say they fixed their StormMaster formula. The ones from 8-5 years ago are prone to blistering. So watch for that.
Hi, I am in north central FL, our roof (shingle) was installed in 2006 when the house was built. The roof is not leaking and we have no problems except for the gutters filling with pebbles from the shingles, I know it about time to have it replaced. A local roofer (Hill Roofing) was highly recommended, he came out and said we are looking at 43 square at a cost of $18k. He said he uses Atlas pristine shingles, mainly because it is better for no mildew forming. I asked about the storm Master, he said that would be a special order and shipping would be expensive. In your opinion, is the differance in money worth paying for the storm master? Thanks, great videos.
Thank you for doing this vid! I’m in the market for a replacement roof and I know nothing. I was going to go with Pabco Prestige, but I will now go with Certainteed Pro. Your videos have really helped me to understand warranties, finding a roofer, and what questions to ask. I’ve taken notes and meeting with another roofer this week. Thank you again!
Thank you for sharing such a great information! One question, how does Tamko Titan XP rates and compares to the other shingles (Is the "Product of the Year Award" misleading, since I don't see them in your list of the 96 & 97 points)? Also, do you have a recommendation for installers in Oldsmar, FL (Tampa Bay area)?
Great info thanks. I'm looking at getting a new roof install this year after 18 years. I needed info so I know what to buy and avoid for roofing company's use.
What do you think about soybean based spray on roof conditioner that supposedly adds years to the shingles?
In previous videos there was a score for each product in each category. Is that available somewhere? It helps in determining which product may fit best for a particular geographic location.
I have told so many 30 year old+ 3 tab roof home owners that they don't need a new roof. There's no leaking, no shingle lifting, cracking, nothing. 3-tab shingles used to be made soooo good. I think manufacturers aren't selling them because they need planned obsolescence and they don't sell enough roofing when 3 tab lasts a long time. So sell architectural shingles that die out in 25-30 years and sell more material over time.
I would like to see TAMKO Titan in it.
Agreed
Its in it!
I didn’t see Titan get a rating?
@@RoofingInsights3.0 What was the rating for Tamko Titan?
@@RoofingInsights3.0we do not see a rating for Tamko Titan XT
What are your thoughts about the Certainteed Northgate climaflex? This is what the roofer is recommending us. Thanks!
My recommended Roofing Contractors: directorii.com
Business/Media Requests with Dmitry: dmitrylipinskiy.com/
Online Roofing Business School For Roofers: Roofing-school.com
Dmitry's one on one Mentorship and Rebranding: www.mymarketingfitness.com/
What have you found to be the best product to put down on plywood sheeting before the shingles go down ( besides tar paper )
Which is the best shingle for Florida the hold up to hurricane and the weather
If you install them to spec(starter on the rakes) the tamko titan xt have a 160mph wind rating. I don't believe any other shingle offers that a wind rating that high. I install a ton of them in the Midwest and they're pretty tough. I only use the titan line, not the heritage line. They did revamp manufacturing for all their products in the last few years.
How do you feel about ice and water shield on whole roof? South Louisiana. Required for the fortified roof program.
Other than price why not?
I was looking to see if you could recommend a roofing contractor in my area. I have been reviewing roofing material videos for the past 2 weeks and have found your info extremely helpful in making preliminary decisions on products to use and not use. If you could let me know how I could go about receiving your feedback on roofing contractors in my area, I would greatly appreciate the advice on who I should look into for a quote. Thank you again for your feedback, it helps the common home owner make informed decisions.
Absolutely!!! All my recommendations are in directorii.com
@roofing insight is there any roofers you would recommend in New York, specifically who cover the Long Island Area (Nassau County)?
Thank you for this very informative video. I will be having a roof installed next month. One roofer raved about Owens Corning Duration as the best for our home at $23,500. He finally dropped down to Oak Ridge to keep the price down to $15,900. The second roofer offered Atlas Pinnacle Pristine for $11300 less than roofer #1"s Duration. He also said I could substitute Duration for an additional $300.. I definitely am going with roofer #2, as they are highly regarded here in The Villages, and they install 75% of new construction roofs for The Villages. In your opinion, What shingle would be my best choice? Thanks!
What brand would you recommend for mobile homes?
I agree malarkey is probably the best for the money but as an installer & it's so grainy and gooey it's crazy 😐. I like oc durations all across the board hope to see OC flex next year.
OC flex is 97 points
What rating would you give the tamko Titan XT shingles in 2024 please
I hardly ever install 3 tab. I do agree that they can be an ok product in specific situations.
What number would you rate the tamko XT architectural shingles
Is it normal when you hold a new shingle up to the light and you can see light coming through small pin holes?
Is GAF HDZ RS good for Sandiego, california weather. We dont get any hail storm here.
Please give us your best recommendation for a roofer/roofing company based in Seattle! Would greatly appreciate it!
Seattle roofing company or anyone on directorii.com
I would love to see Malarkey Highlander next year i saw Legacy Vista and Windsor but i would love to see Highlander in it, great to see Malarkey rating high on the scale
Me too
96 pts no? 19:38 in video
I'm considering having the Atlas Storm Master Shake shingles installed. I know the warranty is 30 years, but in reality, assuming they are properly installed, how long can I expect these shingles to last?
And how do you rate the Owens Corning WOODCREST AR model, Dmitry? Is it still being produced?
3-tabs are great shingles!
Can you justify the price? Cost as much as architectural
Grate information
can your guys make a review on F Wave Synthetic Shingles?
Thank you for this video and review. I knew zero about roofing and had some damage to my roof from a tornado this past July. It's taking some time to work through the insurance issue, but I'm trying to learn. I am looking for a contractor you would recommend in the Des Moines, Iowa, area.
What's your thoughts on tamco titens?
Hott Takes. Love this. Appreciate your work!
Thank you for your support as well!
If I live in FL and my house just suffered bad damages with Hurricane Milton.
Would you recommend IKO Dynasty?
What are your thoughts on Metal Roofing 🤔
Test Atlas ProLam, Atlas Sun, and Atlas Impact
Based on my own hands on experience, I believe OC Duration Flex are the best value for the cost. I'd be curious what you'd rate them at out of 100, Dmitry?
97 points
Just saw your reply in the comments on Flex. Fair enough!
Dimitry, when will you test IKO Nordics?
It’s 97 points
@@RoofingInsights3.0 you can’t give IKO Dynasty and IKO Nordic the same rating. Dynasty is the same as Cambridge with the armorzone strip on the back. Nordic has the strip and SBS granules. It’s far better than dynasty.
Owens Corning Duration seems to get criticized for rusted nails at the 14 minute mark of the video.
However, Owens Corning Oakridge gets a score of 92?
I agree that 3 tab shingles are more hail resistant
Don’t they? I swear hail can’t destroy them
Observed this for years figured the manu. Created architectural partially for hail claims.
@@scottpelley7372 3tab shingles are thinner than a laminated shingle so this can’t be true. When a hail rock hits the shingle it pushes it in and allows water to go through. The thicker the shingle the longer this will take.
If you had to give Tamko XT premium Architectural shingles a rating today what would it be please? Because I have a insurance claim roof that needs to be installed and this is the shingles they want to use. Your feedback will be greatly appreciated and thank you for your time in advance.
???
IKO Nordic is easily the best value shingle in the USA. Biggest class 4, heaviest class 4, SBS granules and an incredible price.
What’s SBS
@@Dman123630 Styrene-Butadiene-Styrene these are granules that are infused with rubber making them far better against hail.
What is your current pricing per sq?
Great video! Now I want to see the full video of the roofers and manufacturer meet up at Eustis 😩 Will that ever happen? Seems like there was some great info shared at that event and we only got a snippet of it 😉
I’m looking to reshuffle a garage in Canada. Which ranks higher OC Duration or Landmark ?
Hm, if 3-tab shingles do BETTER vs hail, why are they rated lower than the others?
Hail resistance is not the only thing we look at, they blow off easy with wind, don’t look as good and very light overall to rank higher in other tests
Love your videos. Researching for a new roof in Eastman GA 31023. If you have any recommendations for an installer please let me know!
Yes we do! They are in directorii.com search by your zip code closed to you
Yeah but will it give me a buzz like wine😂
they should put lines on the shingle, for beginner's to know where to cut and even where to Nail.
What do people think about atlas castlebrook shingles
I’ll take certainteed and the warranty
I’m not familiar with that Certainteed product but agree with the other 4 of your top 5 Asphalt Shingles.
Thank you!
There's a 2 layer and 3 layer (TL) version of the Presidential Solaris shake. Not sure which one was reviewed.
@@blowout396 thank you.
So has IKO fixed their granule loss? Imo they have the best color line, but I have not offered them to our customers because of their terrible history.
Yes, years ago.
I noticed you never mention BP products to it of Canada
BP Vanguard is 95 points
There's no Quality control with Certainteed landmark shingles....and still raising prices. It seems like the higher the price goes the worst the quality...
Roofing Insights, I love your videos. But that intro was long as heck 😂😂😂
2024 Product of the Year TAMKO TITAN XT was not rated by you this year?
It was!
@@RoofingInsights3.0 what is the rating?
No Tamko Titan? You can’t put Herritage up against Duration or Dynasty. Need to do a video on Titan soon.
What's the coolest roof? I'm doing my house in Las Vegas
OC Duration has a major problem with the cloth strip not lining up with the common bond. Sometimes, you only have about a 3/8" area where you can drive the nail. You absolutely cannot nail anywhere on the strip, which is in direct contradiction to what they claim. CALL THEM OUT!
Do you happen to know which brand has the largest common bond area? We're about to replace our roof & that's honestly one of my biggest concerns. I want the installers to hit the common bond area!
not sure the new ranking system does an effective job differentiating quality when every product is grouped within 6 points on a scale of 100. Might as well throw a dart.
I think three tabs seal better
There’s no way you can be a couple of squares short on shingles just from switching from ct to GAF. That’s just you
Do the math.
Wrong. We stopped using GAF for this very reason.
YOU MISSED HOW MUCH EACH COST
GAF Grand Sequoia is easily better than all the shingles talked about. It’s a 99 but it’s FAR more expensive.
It’s 96 points. End of story
@@RoofingInsights3.0 “end of story” is a very strong reaction. You definitely do an amazing job. But that isn’t how high level dialogue happens.
GAF Grand Sequoia is FAR thicker than ALL the shingles on your list and it has SBS granules. To compare them to the other makes no sense. You should rate designer shingles separately which is where this shingle lands. It’s like comparing a corvette to a Ferrari. It’s not even close.
Doesn’t even review titan xd or ANYTHING from GAF ??? How are you going to leave out one of the top 3 largest shingle companies in the US ? This dude is obviously paid by one of GAFs competitors, and I’m assuming it’s not Tamko.
Did you even see the video? Fake comment bot
Two GAF products are included as well as tamko
I have watched the Trends on this site. Seems through Lawyers and $$$ the reviews are swinging toward what the Vendor Wants. Does not seem authentic or honest like it once was say 3-4 years ago.
Never took a dollar from attorney…. Or insurance company… we say no to 80% of vendors who offer us money… not sure what trend you talking about
Arkansas ratings
Tier 1
Malarkey
Atlas
Tier 2
OC
Certainteed
IKO
Gaf
Tier 3
Tamko
shingles it's all about tile
*Sponsored by IKO*
Why not Atlas, Certaineed or Malarkey?
Your video is really awesome but your view count is very low for you video promotion is very important
Anderson Angela Hernandez Robert Harris Michael
Dynasty is amazing
One of my favorite shingles!
👊🏼💯
May you share more about that?
May you share more about that?
Davis Amy White Karen Davis Anthony
Fundamentally shingles are a terrible design. For every 1000 sq ft of roof, you will need approx 3200 nails put through the shingles and the underlayment. I'm surprised the shingles industry exists at all.
What’s the alternative?
@@RoofingInsights3.0 as a minimum individual roofers, not the roofing company, should be trained and certified by the manufacturer whose product they are installing. The product alternatives currently are slate and tile which are pretty much the same design since Roman times. Why cant the roofing industry design a product that performs and lasts without the installation and performance issues. That's what you should ask your invited manufacturers.