If your cat eats your cardboard boxes and you want to get the foam board I use with my templates, you can do so here: amzn.to/44a8SbH 3:13 for the link on the templates for your conversion movement trays!
Initially I was sure I wasn’t going to rebase anything, but now I’ve seen people posting photos of their models on 25mm instead of 20mm I’ve got to say my opinion has changed. I just think they look so much better. You can see more of the models, but they still don’t look too spaced out. And also they look less like they’re impaling their own comrades!
The units look more natural. I would say that goblins look better in 20mm, but most humanoids do benefit from those extra 5mm, and deployment is easier because you have the leeway and you don't need to compose a puzzle with miniatures that only fit in a particular way in the unit because of how they are sculpted.
There is always something nice with handcrafted stuff but I would personally just model the trays I need in Blender and print them on my 3D printer. A nice benefit is that I can add random surface textures and decoration to them 🙂
That is if, like you do, we have access to a 3d printer! Which has a lots of benefits, as you have well put! But not all of us can set up a printer room or have the time to get to grips with one! So many cool things we sometimes can't have... Churning out those trays with textures gonna be sweet! Will love to see anything you come up with!
Or far better is to set up a non-destructive, procedural geo-nodes mesh, with correct spacing and slight insets so the bases sit in a mm or 2. Then you can dynamically change the movement tray to any unit size and the amount of insets will automatically change to suit. Using this method it's also simple to change the 25mm base to any size you like, so for instance, cavalry units.3
Cardboard has always been one of my favourite materials to work with. When you are broke and still wanna hobby, it is always there for you! Chipboard is what I have always used as a surface for gaming tables, but I think it would be a little overkill for movement trays! Do you have any ideas on how to work it for these small projects without having to use power tools?
@@rushthewash oh by chipboard I meant “cartón piedra”, no MDF. You can cut it with a hobby knife or even with scissors. In my video of the dreadnought, I make the base of the backpack with two little pieces of chipboard.
Thanks so much for your thought and effort in this. If i get to play whow i will deffo download and use your templates plus try some foamcard for a first time
I think having a new rulebook that people all over the world will immediately recognize as "official" is great, and I am sure this will be the biggest selling point for all of us! Hopefully, it will also be good enough for us to get to play!
@@rushthewash true and i am excited. I'll almost definately buy the rules but i'm not sure at all how popular it'll be. At least since its official i'll get a game in the local gw shot
It will be as popular as the community wants it to be and pushes it to be. But we are fleeting creatures and attention spans have somewhat shortened, so it remains to be seen.
what about... having the 20mm ranked up tight as normal, then put them on a tray with a large border to have them match the correct footprint. This will solve "spacing" the models out which detracts from the shoulder-to-shoulder feel of infantry.
Honestly for the cost vs effort I would just order MDF versions of these from Warbases. I use them for historic games and the gaps between the slots are exactly 2.5mm either side, which will convert a 20mm single base to 25mm frontage once in the tray.
Yo tengo esperanza de que, aunque no vaya a ser el juego perfecto, nos brinde la oportunidad de poder hacer quedadas y torneos tan guapos como los que teníamos en época de Marcus Beli!
Yo creo que si que se jugara. A los jugadores nos gusta la oficialidad y lo veo como una buena manera de juntar a todos los jugadores que juegan a las distintas ediciones y ediciones fanmade. Además, gracias a internet, a los total war y a la inmensa comunidad que a dia de hoy ama warhammer pero no han tirado ni un dado en su vida, también pueden llegar nuevos jugadores. Es lo que yo pienso pero habrá que ver. Lo importante es que vuelven a dar soporte a fantasy!
Hey! Nuevo en el canal, ya ando viendo vídeos de hace 5 años (los de HQ principalmente, nunca he pintado con tantos washes y tenía curiosidad) y tengo una pregunta. Han confirmado que las bases pasan a 25mm pero, ¿sabemos con certeza que las unidades, es decir lo regimientos, van a estar compuestos por el mismo número de minis? Yo di por hecho que iban a reducirlo del estándar de 20. Un saludo y genial canal.
Pues ahí sí que no me meto, porque cualquier cosa que diga a día de hoy es pura conjetura y yo no tengo una bola de cristal. Posiblemente, digo yo, seguirán con múltiplos de cinco. Tamaños mínimos o máximos... A saber. Igual ni ellos lo saben aún! Gracias por ver el video y comentar!
I don't have any so someone will have else will have to try, but I wonder if you used GW 25mm solid square bases (the one that DO NOT have the slotta gap) and turned them upside down. A 20mm base should fit in that recess, yes? If it does, you could mount some of them on a tray. My concern though is it might (probably) look a bit ugly. 😕
Well, it is worth trying. I think they would fit, as the lips are around 1mm thick and wouldn't occupy that much, but the angle also needs to be taken into account. In other words: not sure. Maybe I can try tomorrow and see!
Yup using a movement tray that makes a five wide unit based on 20mm bases to actually be a five wide unit with a frontage to 25mm per model. Last year I decided to put my miniatures onto movement trays and instead of making them (which is cheaper) I went with Litko movement trays which come in a variety of sizes (though for some reason they do not have a 5 x 5 tray). This is still an on going project since I was only able to get my Empire (600+ Infantry), Dwarves (320 Infantry) and Elves (290 Infantry I need another unit for them) done and still have my Orks & Goblins (which is comparable in size to my Empire Army) and Undead (not Tomb Kings because I hate them) which is larger than the Dwarves and Elves armies. Far easier to get them onto the table since they all have magnets on their bases and the movement trays have magnetic strips in them. I use Plano storage boxes to hold the miniatures (each storage box can hold 140 miniatures. The one thing is that going the Litko route means spending more for both the maovement trays and magnetic bases but I have found them to be better since I save a ton of time on not having to build movement trays.
@@rushthewash Yes but I have been in the hobby since the early 1990's so been collecting miniatures for 30+ years and got some fantastic finds along the way. Like finding three copies of the old Battlemasters game at a toy store in a mall back in 1995 and they were selling them for $9.99 each (normally $40). Could not pass on that since I knew what was in each game in the way of miniatures (104 in total, Empire, Orks & Goblins and Chaos). Kept the Empire and Orks & Goblins and sold the Chaos and some of the other stuff so even with having to buy bases (which back then were cheap) I got the beginnings of two armies for hardly anything. Plus finding some old Earthdawn miniatures at a convention seller who was selling the packs of two metal miniatures for just $0.50 back in 1997. Ended up picking up 18 packs of Wood Elves archers for around $12 so 36 Wood Elves to go with what I had from two 4th edition starter box gave some additional Goblins and lots of High Elves. There would be no way to get what I have today at what GW will be charging for the new WFB miniatures since four units of 20 Wood Elf archers (80 in total) at today GW prices would probably be in around $400 - $500 and more likely $550 - $600 when you include Heroes and Command figures. I spent less than $60 for the ones I have. Oh and I also have a lot of 40K miniature as well.
So you are in the same team here. Mostly old collectors having to adapt to newer editions to be able to find games and get new players to maintain the hobby! Welcome! I have three copies of Battlemasters, two of the old Heroquest, two of Space Crusade, and several fully painted armies from WHFB and a few from 40k. Birds of a feather... :)
Is it know that formations will be 5x4 ? In 6th edition of WFB they were 4x4 In 7th 5x4 and in 8th 10x4 (i just gave them from memory so i can be wrong) It's a good idea but I'm not sure we have enough information yet to start doing those
That is a good point. However, I guess that anything multiple of 5 will be somewhat fine. Hence why the templates have different layouts in that configuration :)
My pleasure! I just hope we can get to play Warhammer Fantasy again and have a big community that is not atomized in a dozen different systems. This would make the hobby surrounding WHFB flourish to new levels!
Mate you should get someone to knock up a 3D printed base converter so you can just drop the 20mm bases into the a tray and be done with it. Would sell heaps!
Personally, I like the idea of 25mm bases becoming standard. After playing Oathmark for quite some time it makes ranking up a LOT easier and looks better. Thankfully I sold all my "Old World" miniatures years ago when Age of Sigmar launched. My group has decided we'll play the game... but we're going to shrink it down to 10mm (Warmaster) size and 3D print it all.
I am very intrigued about minihammer. If it would be more mainstream, I would love that. I agree on bigger bases looking better. I can't believe how ok I am with it, to be honest, as adverse as I am towards change.
Changes in base sizes in general (it's not just the 20mm that are getting bumped up) makes a lot of sense if you're looking for TOW to stick around long term. While the popular idea that the change was made to facilitate easier ranking is partially true, the real reason for the change is to bring TOW in line with the standardized scale of modern GW games. I love Fantasy and I've been playing since I was 11, but we really have to get away from the idea that TOW IS Fantasy - TOW is LIKE Fantasy, but it's not a beat for beat resurrection. Fantasy died because of GW's mismanagement, we can't change that. If we want to prevent the second death of Fantasy then we need to move the conversation towards whether or GW has learned from their past mistakes (i.e. how are they combating the high barrier to entry, and will updates be timely and evenly distributed?)
Those are all very good arguments. If GW has learned or not from previous mistakes, I am quite skeptical. The average cost of a playable army is probably around 200 to 300 USD for anyone starting in the hobby. Add to that paints and the usual stuff you need to make it look good on a table, and it is substantial indeed. This can't be helped. Even if people 3d print stuff - which they will -, this doesn't mean it is better for all involved, as GW can very well cut support on a whim. How feasible it is for the game to survive and thrive remains to be seen. Ay the end of the day, the community of veteran players will have to be the ones willing to do the hard work of raising new players and building ties with other groups of players to maintain a steady market that GW finds palatable enough to keep supporting the game. I remain skeptic. Marines are just too profitable.
@@rushthewash I think $200-$300 USD is far too low of an estimate for a single standard point army for TOW - Fantasy by extension - as prices will likely be over the $300 range. A combat patrol or Vanguard box will run you anywhere from $130-$200, and the point values for those are typically between 500-1000 - so you're looking at double that cost for 2000. Another important thing to consider is that fact that 3D printing is still relatively rare, to the point of being almost entirely exclusive to the upper ends of the hardcore hobbyist crowd. While 3D printing is great, it still presents a barrier too high for most people to cross under their own efforts. In my mind, the only way TOW - and Fantasy by extension - is going to survive is if GW dedicates themselves to investing it in and makes a clear delineation in scale within it. TOW absolutely must have the 3 scales present in GW's other primary titles. It must have a skirmish mode like Killteam or Warcry, a smaller sized mode like the focus of the 500-1000 point combat patrols, and - of course - a standard 2000+ point affair that people can take part in once they've expanded their collections. While the idea that veteran players will foster in new players is a nice idea that can work on a smaller, more intimate scale, it's not something thats feasible as you move to a wider scale - Fantasy is already a testament to that. Fantasy has the highest barrier to entry of any of GW's properties, and as such, requires a greater emphasis on ease of access points for new players or old players looking to expand. Bringing back, and actually supporting, stuff like Mordheim or Warbands, in the same vein as Killteam or Combat Patrols, is a proven way to topple that barrier and ease new people in. If GW can't see that then Fantasy is doomed to the dustbin.
I couldn't agree more. But I think Etsy and similar places where you can find 3d printed minis, will make some cash on this for sure. Games like Mordheim and Warhammer Quest are fantastic to create small faction centered boxes that will allow collectors explore a small slice of the game, get invested in it, and hopefully end up getting into bigger battles.
When I stopped playing due to lack of opponents, I was very much so into T9A. I haven't been following it for a while. Last tournament I organised was before the debacle from '19 and we haven't played anything from T9A ever since.
I don't get it. Why do people care about bases at all. If it isn't competitive it literally doesn't matter 😂 the bigger bases just give the model more breathing room and stability
Because it took quite some time to paint and decorate the armies we have, and because we might be playing older editions too that need certain base sizes to be "official". Unit footprint has quite a few implications too: smaller units have an advantage in maneuverability and being able to dish more attacks per centimeter of frontage than bigger based units. This is super evident in elite units, like Swordsmen of Hoeth vs Chaos Warriors Chosen, for example.
If your cat eats your cardboard boxes and you want to get the foam board I use with my templates, you can do so here:
amzn.to/44a8SbH
3:13 for the link on the templates for your conversion movement trays!
Initially I was sure I wasn’t going to rebase anything, but now I’ve seen people posting photos of their models on 25mm instead of 20mm I’ve got to say my opinion has changed. I just think they look so much better.
You can see more of the models, but they still don’t look too spaced out. And also they look less like they’re impaling their own comrades!
The units look more natural. I would say that goblins look better in 20mm, but most humanoids do benefit from those extra 5mm, and deployment is easier because you have the leeway and you don't need to compose a puzzle with miniatures that only fit in a particular way in the unit because of how they are sculpted.
@@rushthewash Yeah, good point regarding goblins. Not seen any yet, but I can imagine they’ll look a bit lost on 25’s.
I watched 9 sec of this video and I already clicked the like button. Keep fight for our WHFB enthusiasts!
I will never give up on that system and universe. I grew eating up that setting since I was 13 years old. WHF is my hobby life!
There is always something nice with handcrafted stuff but I would personally just model the trays I need in Blender and print them on my 3D printer. A nice benefit is that I can add random surface textures and decoration to them 🙂
That is if, like you do, we have access to a 3d printer! Which has a lots of benefits, as you have well put! But not all of us can set up a printer room or have the time to get to grips with one! So many cool things we sometimes can't have...
Churning out those trays with textures gonna be sweet! Will love to see anything you come up with!
Or far better is to set up a non-destructive, procedural geo-nodes mesh, with correct spacing and slight insets so the bases sit in a mm or 2. Then you can dynamically change the movement tray to any unit size and the amount of insets will automatically change to suit. Using this method it's also simple to change the 25mm base to any size you like, so for instance, cavalry units.3
I make permanent, glue-on, non-reversable base extenders that makes the base the size AS IT SHOULD BE
Cheap and effective + nice DIY job while also avoiding throwing more money than necessary at GW
You can always get some printed stuff, but if you have cardboard laying around... why not?
Thank you. The PDFs saved me $$.
You're most welcome!
Hi Miguel, let me say this as calm as I can: WHAT EDITION OF MORDHEIM MANUAL IS WHAT YOU HAVE GOT IN YOUR HANDS!! 🤯
It's a secret! :D
Maybe one day I will talk about it... Hopefully sooner than later!
@@rushthewash ok, you have my attention til that day Master 🧟♂️
Maybe you will get access to a cover like that...
THIS is the real question! Miguel!!! You are surrounded, hand yourself over :D
I deny everything and admit nothing!
A cheap and easy way to NOT spend more money on Games Workshop Bases.... and invest in old world minis instead :D
Thanks buddy! Great Video
Thanks to you for helping with the usual stuff. Great to have such a knowledgeable ally!
Love it, I'll definitely go your way
Thanks! Glad it helps!
Hey Miguel I like your own personal neon behind you... I should do that hahaha
Do it! You know you want to!
Oh yeah Miguel! I like to see you working the cardboard!! Good job. You could use chipboard too instead of the PVC board. 👌👍
Cardboard has always been one of my favourite materials to work with. When you are broke and still wanna hobby, it is always there for you!
Chipboard is what I have always used as a surface for gaming tables, but I think it would be a little overkill for movement trays! Do you have any ideas on how to work it for these small projects without having to use power tools?
@@rushthewash oh by chipboard I meant “cartón piedra”, no MDF. You can cut it with a hobby knife or even with scissors. In my video of the dreadnought, I make the base of the backpack with two little pieces of chipboard.
Le echo un vistazo al video, que me tienes con curiosidad!
Thanks so much for your thought and effort in this. If i get to play whow i will deffo download and use your templates plus try some foamcard for a first time
I think having a new rulebook that people all over the world will immediately recognize as "official" is great, and I am sure this will be the biggest selling point for all of us! Hopefully, it will also be good enough for us to get to play!
@@rushthewash true and i am excited. I'll almost definately buy the rules but i'm not sure at all how popular it'll be. At least since its official i'll get a game in the local gw shot
It will be as popular as the community wants it to be and pushes it to be. But we are fleeting creatures and attention spans have somewhat shortened, so it remains to be seen.
what about... having the 20mm ranked up tight as normal, then put them on a tray with a large border to have them match the correct footprint. This will solve "spacing" the models out which detracts from the shoulder-to-shoulder feel of infantry.
Considering the new rules say all on the rank attack, regardless if they are in contact or not, this would be feasiblem
What an aesome video!
Thanks, Valathiril!!
I love the old school vibe of these movement trays, perfect for the Old World! 😄
Or maybe for old players of Warhammer! Hahaha.
Honestly for the cost vs effort I would just order MDF versions of these from Warbases. I use them for historic games and the gaps between the slots are exactly 2.5mm either side, which will convert a 20mm single base to 25mm frontage once in the tray.
If there is money, there are no problems :)
Cardboard is basically free, tho. This is for people who have more time than funds, true that.
I love this idea 👍
Easiest way to deal with bases for WHTOW.
Thank you!
You are most welcome!
nice solution! i certainly will not be rebasing either!
It is just too much. I have many armies and I can't be arsed.
Era justo lo que tenía pensado hacer. Si es que se juega, que eso todavía está por ver.... a ver si vale realmente la pena
Yo tengo esperanza de que, aunque no vaya a ser el juego perfecto, nos brinde la oportunidad de poder hacer quedadas y torneos tan guapos como los que teníamos en época de Marcus Beli!
Yo creo que si que se jugara. A los jugadores nos gusta la oficialidad y lo veo como una buena manera de juntar a todos los jugadores que juegan a las distintas ediciones y ediciones fanmade. Además, gracias a internet, a los total war y a la inmensa comunidad que a dia de hoy ama warhammer pero no han tirado ni un dado en su vida, también pueden llegar nuevos jugadores. Es lo que yo pienso pero habrá que ver. Lo importante es que vuelven a dar soporte a fantasy!
Exacto: lo oficial tira un huevo. Hay cosas fan made muy muy muy buenas, pero ya sabemos como funcionamos los máquinas.
Hey! Nuevo en el canal, ya ando viendo vídeos de hace 5 años (los de HQ principalmente, nunca he pintado con tantos washes y tenía curiosidad) y tengo una pregunta. Han confirmado que las bases pasan a 25mm pero, ¿sabemos con certeza que las unidades, es decir lo regimientos, van a estar compuestos por el mismo número de minis? Yo di por hecho que iban a reducirlo del estándar de 20. Un saludo y genial canal.
Pues ahí sí que no me meto, porque cualquier cosa que diga a día de hoy es pura conjetura y yo no tengo una bola de cristal. Posiblemente, digo yo, seguirán con múltiplos de cinco. Tamaños mínimos o máximos... A saber. Igual ni ellos lo saben aún!
Gracias por ver el video y comentar!
I don't have any so someone will have else will have to try, but I wonder if you used GW 25mm solid square bases (the one that DO NOT have the slotta gap) and turned them upside down. A 20mm base should fit in that recess, yes? If it does, you could mount some of them on a tray.
My concern though is it might (probably) look a bit ugly. 😕
Well, it is worth trying. I think they would fit, as the lips are around 1mm thick and wouldn't occupy that much, but the angle also needs to be taken into account. In other words: not sure. Maybe I can try tomorrow and see!
Fantástico, gracias por el video
Gracias por verlo!
Yup using a movement tray that makes a five wide unit based on 20mm bases to actually be a five wide unit with a frontage to 25mm per model. Last year I decided to put my miniatures onto movement trays and instead of making them (which is cheaper) I went with Litko movement trays which come in a variety of sizes (though for some reason they do not have a 5 x 5 tray). This is still an on going project since I was only able to get my Empire (600+ Infantry), Dwarves (320 Infantry) and Elves (290 Infantry I need another unit for them) done and still have my Orks & Goblins (which is comparable in size to my Empire Army) and Undead (not Tomb Kings because I hate them) which is larger than the Dwarves and Elves armies. Far easier to get them onto the table since they all have magnets on their bases and the movement trays have magnetic strips in them. I use Plano storage boxes to hold the miniatures (each storage box can hold 140 miniatures. The one thing is that going the Litko route means spending more for both the maovement trays and magnetic bases but I have found them to be better since I save a ton of time on not having to build movement trays.
Quite the collection you got there!
If you have the cash but not the time, buying trays is a sensible solution indeed.
@@rushthewash Yes but I have been in the hobby since the early 1990's so been collecting miniatures for 30+ years and got some fantastic finds along the way. Like finding three copies of the old Battlemasters game at a toy store in a mall back in 1995 and they were selling them for $9.99 each (normally $40). Could not pass on that since I knew what was in each game in the way of miniatures (104 in total, Empire, Orks & Goblins and Chaos). Kept the Empire and Orks & Goblins and sold the Chaos and some of the other stuff so even with having to buy bases (which back then were cheap) I got the beginnings of two armies for hardly anything. Plus finding some old Earthdawn miniatures at a convention seller who was selling the packs of two metal miniatures for just $0.50 back in 1997. Ended up picking up 18 packs of Wood Elves archers for around $12 so 36 Wood Elves to go with what I had from two 4th edition starter box gave some additional Goblins and lots of High Elves.
There would be no way to get what I have today at what GW will be charging for the new WFB miniatures since four units of 20 Wood Elf archers (80 in total) at today GW prices would probably be in around $400 - $500 and more likely $550 - $600 when you include Heroes and Command figures. I spent less than $60 for the ones I have. Oh and I also have a lot of 40K miniature as well.
So you are in the same team here. Mostly old collectors having to adapt to newer editions to be able to find games and get new players to maintain the hobby! Welcome!
I have three copies of Battlemasters, two of the old Heroquest, two of Space Crusade, and several fully painted armies from WHFB and a few from 40k. Birds of a feather... :)
Buenas Miguel, muchas gracias por el video, es muy interesante. Me surge una duda ¿el tablero blanco de que material es? ¿Cartón pluma? Un saludo
Es lamina de polivinilocarbonato, o PVC, de 2mm de grosor. Pero, vamos, que sirve cartón pluma o lo que tengas a mano!
Claro que si y gracias
Y a ahorrar pa comprar otras cosas!
@@rushthewash si señooor,miguel pasa un buen finde y feliz dia del trabajador aunque donde estas igual no es fiesta
Tres días sin madrugaaaar! Olé, olé y olé!
man this is dope (the link for some reason isnt working for me) but this is such a good idea will hopefully get the link working haha
Let me look into it! Gimme a sec!
drive.google.com/drive/folders/1MDjo4Ft34pfJbVcm5bejML-cXo8ZLU4A
It should work. Can you please check?
you're amazing mate @@rushthewash
Is it know that formations will be 5x4 ?
In 6th edition of WFB they were 4x4
In 7th 5x4
and in 8th 10x4
(i just gave them from memory so i can be wrong)
It's a good idea but I'm not sure we have enough information yet to start doing those
That is a good point. However, I guess that anything multiple of 5 will be somewhat fine. Hence why the templates have different layouts in that configuration :)
Luckily most of us will have plenty of time to think this over since they are out of stock for god knows how long
At least we know the base sizes now!
Buen video.
Oye, que manual de mordheim es ese que has sacado en el video? Es un fan-made?
Yo tampoco voy a cambiar las bases...ni de coña.
Es un secreto a voces lo de Mordheim. Un día hablaré de ello, os lo prometo!
Thank you so much for making this!
My pleasure! I just hope we can get to play Warhammer Fantasy again and have a big community that is not atomized in a dozen different systems. This would make the hobby surrounding WHFB flourish to new levels!
Mate you should get someone to knock up a 3D printed base converter so you can just drop the 20mm bases into the a tray and be done with it. Would sell heaps!
Oh, Etsy sellers are gonna make money with this, be it with mdf or resin printed converters, that is for sure!
I started making movement trays lifes too short so i found this company that makes them called products for wargamers
If money is no problem, I can't disagree with this approach!
Personally, I like the idea of 25mm bases becoming standard. After playing Oathmark for quite some time it makes ranking up a LOT easier and looks better. Thankfully I sold all my "Old World" miniatures years ago when Age of Sigmar launched. My group has decided we'll play the game... but we're going to shrink it down to 10mm (Warmaster) size and 3D print it all.
I am very intrigued about minihammer. If it would be more mainstream, I would love that.
I agree on bigger bases looking better. I can't believe how ok I am with it, to be honest, as adverse as I am towards change.
Changes in base sizes in general (it's not just the 20mm that are getting bumped up) makes a lot of sense if you're looking for TOW to stick around long term. While the popular idea that the change was made to facilitate easier ranking is partially true, the real reason for the change is to bring TOW in line with the standardized scale of modern GW games.
I love Fantasy and I've been playing since I was 11, but we really have to get away from the idea that TOW IS Fantasy - TOW is LIKE Fantasy, but it's not a beat for beat resurrection. Fantasy died because of GW's mismanagement, we can't change that. If we want to prevent the second death of Fantasy then we need to move the conversation towards whether or GW has learned from their past mistakes (i.e. how are they combating the high barrier to entry, and will updates be timely and evenly distributed?)
Those are all very good arguments. If GW has learned or not from previous mistakes, I am quite skeptical. The average cost of a playable army is probably around 200 to 300 USD for anyone starting in the hobby. Add to that paints and the usual stuff you need to make it look good on a table, and it is substantial indeed. This can't be helped. Even if people 3d print stuff - which they will -, this doesn't mean it is better for all involved, as GW can very well cut support on a whim. How feasible it is for the game to survive and thrive remains to be seen.
Ay the end of the day, the community of veteran players will have to be the ones willing to do the hard work of raising new players and building ties with other groups of players to maintain a steady market that GW finds palatable enough to keep supporting the game.
I remain skeptic. Marines are just too profitable.
@@rushthewash I think $200-$300 USD is far too low of an estimate for a single standard point army for TOW - Fantasy by extension - as prices will likely be over the $300 range. A combat patrol or Vanguard box will run you anywhere from $130-$200, and the point values for those are typically between 500-1000 - so you're looking at double that cost for 2000.
Another important thing to consider is that fact that 3D printing is still relatively rare, to the point of being almost entirely exclusive to the upper ends of the hardcore hobbyist crowd. While 3D printing is great, it still presents a barrier too high for most people to cross under their own efforts.
In my mind, the only way TOW - and Fantasy by extension - is going to survive is if GW dedicates themselves to investing it in and makes a clear delineation in scale within it. TOW absolutely must have the 3 scales present in GW's other primary titles. It must have a skirmish mode like Killteam or Warcry, a smaller sized mode like the focus of the 500-1000 point combat patrols, and - of course - a standard 2000+ point affair that people can take part in once they've expanded their collections.
While the idea that veteran players will foster in new players is a nice idea that can work on a smaller, more intimate scale, it's not something thats feasible as you move to a wider scale - Fantasy is already a testament to that. Fantasy has the highest barrier to entry of any of GW's properties, and as such, requires a greater emphasis on ease of access points for new players or old players looking to expand.
Bringing back, and actually supporting, stuff like Mordheim or Warbands, in the same vein as Killteam or Combat Patrols, is a proven way to topple that barrier and ease new people in. If GW can't see that then Fantasy is doomed to the dustbin.
I couldn't agree more. But I think Etsy and similar places where you can find 3d printed minis, will make some cash on this for sure.
Games like Mordheim and Warhammer Quest are fantastic to create small faction centered boxes that will allow collectors explore a small slice of the game, get invested in it, and hopefully end up getting into bigger battles.
Great stuff yes. Get work arounds - work out the cheapest way and do it.
You just need to do what makes sense to you! Not everyone has the means or time to do masterpieces of everything!
@@rushthewash thats so right.
Nice
Of all people, one I see rebasing the least is you! :D
9th age better tbh prob the best rules out of every fantasy game
When I stopped playing due to lack of opponents, I was very much so into T9A. I haven't been following it for a while. Last tournament I organised was before the debacle from '19 and we haven't played anything from T9A ever since.
It is the best, by far. But, it has issues ofc and not enough players.
Yup on both accounts.
What are those dark elf models you have undercoated?
I got them second hand on eBay, but I think they are Raging Heroes.
Happy they are bringing back old world. Where stories made sense. Not the lets start new, nuke the world split it up everybodys a god congrats
Why was there a need to nuke a whole setting is still beyond me.
Easy: Play Kings of War instead. Better rules, no need to rebase, or go all in and multibase.
Yes, but no... And reasons are several and might their own video for it.
@@rushthewash Sounds Ominous! GW are just going to drop it after a while again like the usually do.
Omg😂
Hahaha! Arianitaaaa!
I don't get it. Why do people care about bases at all. If it isn't competitive it literally doesn't matter 😂 the bigger bases just give the model more breathing room and stability
Because it took quite some time to paint and decorate the armies we have, and because we might be playing older editions too that need certain base sizes to be "official".
Unit footprint has quite a few implications too: smaller units have an advantage in maneuverability and being able to dish more attacks per centimeter of frontage than bigger based units. This is super evident in elite units, like Swordsmen of Hoeth vs Chaos Warriors Chosen, for example.
Nice vid I'll delete my comment from your other vid now :)
Oh, please... Don't do that: debate is the mother of ideas!
Change your base
NO! 😜
NO! 😜
@@rushthewash CHANGE. YOUR. BASE.
@lcmiracle nicht! I like my bases the size they are!
And I still play silly old stuff sometimes!
@@rushthewash PURGE ROUND BASES!!!!!!! WAAAGHHH!!!!