Forgive me for asking - I'm not from the US - but I've seen this a bit in US TV. Like black person that is an Athlete - yeah that is normal. But black person that is also smart? How extraordinary. I shiver when I think how people see other people based on something that insignificant as color of skin. Does this happen often or is this more of media blowing it out of proportion? I've never been in US, so it's hard for me to find out the truth.
@@jannegrey My personal experience as a white resident of a city in the midwest: absolutely nothing stops any individual black person from attaining a reasonably high position of authority, social prestige, respect, money, and other such things. Colin Powell, Clarence Thomas, Denzel Washington, Oprah Winfrey...just four out of thousands of famous black people who have succeeded in spite of the supposed racism that's everywhere. Now, the USA is a country with over a third of a billion people, and so even though we have thousands of celebrities, there are millions more people who aren't. So maybe there are some examples of discrimination built into our system, but they don't all go in the same direction...a very significant number of individuals can succeed in spite of discrimination against them, or perhaps because of some discrimination in their favor. But on a day to day basis, living in some fairly poor neighborhoods and working in others, I see a lot of individuals, most of whom are black or otherwise nonwhite, who act in a very antisocial and obnoxious fashion. Is it because of the way they were raised? Is it a crime of ignorance? Or are they just kinda crappy low-quality people, who happen to be black ghetto dwellers because they're in the city, but a similar percentage of white people who are just as dumb and just as given to aggression, and instead of gang-bangers with do-rags, they all become rednecks and trailer-trash instead, just because they live in the country instead of the city. So politicians from the liberal Democrat party tend to target the black/urban vote, pushing for more affirmative action and more government spending aimed at urban renewal, more schools and more roads and more "affordable" housing, so the country's population is pushed more toward the cities and more toward racial diversity...and meanwhile, our conservative Republican party mostly relies on traditional Christian families which are largely white and largely country-dwelling, and they try to have a smaller government that doesn't do all these social programs that are supposed to change everything. This gets painted as the Republicans being racists a lot, especially by the Democrats, but the reality is a lot more complicated than there just being white supremacists everywhere. In my city-dwelling career, I've heard references to the KKK exactly once outside of media stories....I absolutely do not think there's a bunch of big-time racism going on, not in my part of the world at least. Whether there's a lot of subtle layers of discrimination which are slowly grinding down entire populations and making them produce a lower *percentage* of exceptional individuals than they "should"....that's a lot harder to definitively say it isn't happening.
@@jannegreya lot of it is blown way out of proportion by pop culture, there are exceptions nevertheless. I live in the deep south of the U.S where the concentration of black people is significantly higher than a lot of other places, and a lot of them are very normal and down to earth like any other person. again, there are exceptions but that is a far cry to what pop culture tries to depict.
One of my personal favorits is the scene when Mr. Big basicly makes judy part of the familie and there is a brief shot of nick and his look is like "I know so many people and have so many conections i worked at my entier live, and all this bunny has to do is one nice thing and she has the most powerfull connection of them all".
I was told I was articulate when a teenager in school. That bit hit me. I remember saying, "daaamn!" Great rumination. I thoroughly enjoy listening to you. Thank you so much man.
One of your best Ruminations in recent memory. Really glad you got to pick this one yourself! You seem a lot more into it then you otherwise would be. More enthused. :)
It was an extremely pleasant surprise to get a notification for this video, I never expected you to do a rumination on Zootopia period, let alone choose it when given free reign to pick anything. This is my favorite Disney animated movie and probably my favorite animated film of all time. I went into it with my only knowledge on the movie being the sloth trailer, hyped for it's potential just from that and it exceeded even my high expectations. The paradox you mentioned with that kind of trailer didn't bother me that much in this instance, as they didn't show the entire scene and the characters/animation are just so good to make it almost never get old. IIRC, Judy wasn't retired for three months, we only know from Rich Moore that the time between the press conference and Judy&Nick making up was 2.5-3 months. She was probably back home for only a few weeks at most if she only just found out about her parents partnership with Gideon in that scene.
I think they left out birds and reptiles because, well... Predators have to eat something. Although, and I don't know if it's canon or only in fanfictions, but some people say predators eat bug-made stuff, (as in, protein comes from bug farming) so it could work.
I believe they did that because it makes more sense: it's logical for a phoenomenon of evolution to affect a population base sharing an overwhelming amount of the same dna, as all mamals do. It wouldn't make sense for reptiles or birds who share very little of it with us. Maybe they will get their own movie as a bug's life did. What doesn't make sense is that sea mamals are not represented, though they still share that characteristc with us.
I think the reason is anatomy. All mammals have almost the same muscles, but in different proportion. The devs had to limit themselves to humanoid anatomy so they could make believeable anthropomorphic characters that still retained almost all of their anatomy. Crocodiles or lizards couldn't walk on two legs and birds wouldn't be able to grab things. Though they do have a similar problem with hooved mammals and touch screens...
Eating bug stuff is canon; in that scene where Nick was taking down Judy a peg or two, just before he opened up several wood panels of a fence, there's an empty box of "bugburga"
This is addictive. I don't do podcasts but Im going to have to find a way to listen to your stuff via youtube while Im at the gym and working. I guess I just had to find the right person. Because this is easy listening bliss. Listening to you is even good for my vocabulary. Not ashamed to admit it, lol. Love this channel.
As it happens, all of my videos also go live on my podcast in MP3 format (you can find a link to the RSS on my website, and I'm also on Itunes somewhere) if that helps.
Absolutely LOVE your ruminations on this movie. Top notch analysis! Mind if we feature this on ZNN? (It's a website that has been highlighting zootopia-related content for over two years now)
If you like Zootopia's take on anthropomorphic animals, I'd recommend you check out Overgrowth. It feels like an extended version of little Judy's monologue about how bloody things were back in early days.
I had a feeling you'd agonize over what to choose, though perhaps I was mistaken about why. The effort was worth it, though. Not only was this a great choice in general, it's also a movie I've actually seen - and you'd be surprised how low the odds are on that. I'll refrain from gushing along with you (I loved the nose twitch thing too, but I didn't notice it nearly as much - I'll have to keep an eye out for it if I ever get to rewatch this) and limit myself to the theme you only briefly mentioned. For the first 15 minutes or so, the movie beats you over the head with what looks like it's going to be the central theme: follow your dreams, you can do anything if you try, etc. A typical Disney message, but it was done so over-the-top saccharine that I was tempted to stop watching. I think it reaches its peak with Judy telling Finnick that he can become an elephant as long as he never gives up on his dreams. But beginning pretty much there, the movie starts repeatedly subverting that message. This is no fairy tale; it really serves up some harsh, unglamorous reality at times, and a big part of Judy's character arc is her gradually reconciling that reality with the naive optimism of her childhood. Her closing monologue captures it well: "When I was a kid, I thought Zootopia was this perfect place where everyone got along and anyone could be anything. Turns out, real life's a little bit more complicated than a slogan on a bumper sticker. Real life is messy. We all have limitations. ... no matter what type of animal you are, from the biggest elephant to our first fox, I implore you: try. Try to make the world a better place." This is a remarkably down-to-Earth message, especially for a Disney movie, and it still manages to deliver it in a way that inspires hope in typical Disney fashion. I know you don't like too much of this sort of realism in your fiction, but at this point in my life this kind of thing really resonates with me. This is up there with the LotR ruminations as some of your best this year - I actually can't think of another one offhand that I liked more. This is exactly the kind of rumination I was hoping for when I made the request. Well done, sir. Now we'll all be looking forward to seeing what you choose next year even more. No pressure! (mwahahahaha! (#not_evil (#evil)))
When I first saw this film, it really bothered me how hard Judy grabs the idiot ball (and a little bit of the evil slash jerk ball too) during the press conference scene. It is still very much plot convenience how hard she plays into Bellweather's hands, but it wasn't quite as bad as I initially thought, which is part of why I did end up rewatching that scene rather than skipping it (along with just having been busy). The first thing Judy says which makes everything start going wrong is when she quotes the "biology" concept...which the badger scientist from the lab scene with Lionheart had specifically said. Now she didn't know Judy was there, so she couldn't have been intentionally priming Judy for that scene....but she could have been priming *Lionheart*, hoping that he'd drop the word in some press conference and get the idea into the heads of prey animals everywhere that predator biology is a problem. Then combine that with the fact that of the reporters who immediately bombard Judy with follow-up questions....the first one is a RAM. Might well have been one of Doug's henchmen, I couldn't really tell...but sheep are almost as fecund as rabbits, so maybe Bellwether's little ovine mafia has one heck of a lot of brothers, and one of them was intentionally planted into the news media for the same reason that Bellwether herself got into the Mayor's office. So while Judy still gets some of the blame for having said exactly the right wrong things during that conference, a fair amount of it can be assumed to be Xanatos gambits on Bellwether's part.
Getting a Rumination on this was such a pleasant surprise! My wife and I recently caught this movie online and we also enjoyed how the dilemmas and the characters were handled. Good for kids but having real peril and some nice observations on prejudice that were not overly simplified. We also really loved Judy and Nick. The animation for Judy was so much fun to watch. Thanks again for the rumination!
You know, i missed completely why Nick wanted that pen so badly the first time I watched it. I kept thinking it was a special pen that he couldnt live without. I didnt know it had a recording of him confessing to tax evasion! Thats awesome
You need to do more animated ruminations, they are wonderful! Would love to see you comment on the Disney Animated Canon, the Pixar Animated Canon, or even Don Bluth's Animated Canon.
“How recent did predators and prey come together?” All things considered, probably 3 generations ago. Judy’s parents understood they’re all supposed to get along, but probably didn’t grow up seeing their parents not acting prejudicely.
Your last line that you said around 1:07:50 or so reminded me of something. Unity among humans on a significant scale never comes from a genuine desire to co-operate, cohabit, or join forces. It always come from the need to unify in order to defeat a greater threat to everyone. Unity of the kind that many people preach, endorse, or glorify is a delusion that helps people convince themselves that they are more righteous than they are. True unity is a disposable utility, always an alliance of convenience. That is why multiculturalism doesn't work, because while multi racialism works, it only does so when you have a complete cultural hegemony.
I got this movie out because of this Rumination. My first viewing of it, which was last night, I thought it was okay but overrated. The following day, as in today, I was feeling lazy when I woke up, so to get my brain working again, I replayed the movie, skipping over the first two scenes and past the sloth gag (which was a funny joke once, but intentionally difficult to sit through, so I had no desire to watch it a second time). I also planned on skipping the press conference scene, but ended up watching that after all. The omission of these weaker scenes significantly improved my experience of watching the film, which combined with its very ear-wormy, but not actually bad, theme song, has cause it to work its way into my interests a lot more than on the first viewing. I still don't think it's high on Pixar's best list...the fact that it's firmly a Disney-Pixar work rather than just a Pixar work is very obvious to me, so the people just don't act as human as in a movie like Incredibles or Inside Out. Instead, they're very obviously doing a Disney-esque furry-animals world, but it's an evolved version of it, both because of Pixar's influence and just because it's a much more modern work, but it feels like the Disney world of Kingdom Hearts might have been the Disney planet in like the 16th century, and this is what it turned into over the following five centuries. Still, IMO this setting's worldbuilding doesn't really quite work, specifically because they can't quite make up their mind whether the animal-people are basically people or if they're mostly animal, and whether they're all the same under the skin or if they have bone-deep differences that have to be taken into account. They're trying to do an Aesop about real-world people by analogizing them to these animals, but they want to emphasize the fact that anyone can be anything in spite of their differences, which means they have to HAVE differences, and the schizophrenia involved in that intended message really limits the work's effectiveness.
1:02:35 you did your research well, but not well enough. there are 2,5 to 3 months break there, but it is not from the time she quites to when she comes back, instead it is between lionheart's arrest and bellweather's arrest. and considering she reunited with gideon only at the very end of that time, she likely quit for a week at most, not longer
Same here! Lilo and Stitch is a close second to me, though i am not considering Pixar movies as they are their own studio with their own completely different style of animation and storytelling if you ask me.
So nick knew very well just how big a deal getting the taxman's attention is, if your doing something nefarious. 33:20 I think that's why he deliberately don't want to give off the appearance of wealth. Just a thought.
Really great rumination. Would like to see you do more Disney movies. Heck, I'd love to hear a rumination on Don Rosa's Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck, even though that's quite a different format for this.
I love that you did a rumination of this movie! Its the first animated rumination I've seen from you, did you do any others? By the way, I only found your channel last year and I don't comment much, but you're doing superb work! I am also watching both your TNG and DS9 rumination series together with the shows. Love to hear your thoughts on fiction.
Nice rumination, never expected you doing this movie. Good thing you didn't go with the movie "obvious" and commented theme of racism. I don't like connecting this movie to color based racism, because both Nick and Judy are not victims of this type of racism, but more of gender and class bias. I think Nick is more a immigrant archetype or minority while Judy is "first woman" in police force. Good you focused on other aspects of the movie (but then, I am from eastern/middle europe so I am detached a lot from USA systemic racism). I think Chief Bogo put Judy on a parking duty because he has under his wing mammals both big and small (but mostly big). Unicornis (or rhinoceros) is more fit for being a muscle while Judy with her agility, small frame, finesse and Bloody Mess won't stop a big bad wolf and instead should be put into more mundane duty, not to mention better put token bunny into job with less responsibility in case of her "ducking up". Maybe she would get better job after Bogo would see her biting the bullet and just doing her job. I think Nick exaggerated with the amount of money he makes in a day. Not to mention I doubt he does the same shtick everyday but gives himself a day or two and goes again for a pawpsicles. While he is smart I think he doesn't save money but spends it pretty quickly (or another theory is that he pays to some mafia boss for doing business in his or her region). About overcooked carrot, there is a delete/alternate scene called "Homesick Hopps" which presents the scene with Judy returning home, cooking dinner and talking with parents. Alternate scene is a bit slower and with much more feels and little jokes, I like it more than what we see in the movie. Homesick Hopps can be found on youtube. One thing I didn't like about Zootopia (otherwise it's a perfect movie!!!21121@1). After panther attack and Chief Bogo demanding Judy's badge*, I realised she had the evidence. She found Otterton (east Devon) ID card in Mr. Big's limo. She could show Bogo this finding and tell him how she ended in here. She somewhat found what happened with this missing mammal and If given more time she could find out more. Of course in the movie it lead to a very deep and good scene between Judy and Nick but still, Bogo could still got the evidence.
will you go watch the incredibles 2 in the theatres? I don't have a niece living nearby to go with but I'm still tempted. I loved the family theme of the first so much I watched it over and over as a kid. Ps: Thank you for this rumination, I really apreciate your work. pps: 73000 a year
I've never had time to see it, no. In fact I've pretty much fallen behind on movies, only really making time to see ones that my friends and family want to see, and that are funded by the show.
Hey Lorerunner! If you read new comments on your older posts: Is it on the owner of the channel to set adding custom subtitles avaible? Because I love Zootopia, and I would like if my parents could also "hear" this great analysis of yours, but they cannot speak english. If I'd ever get the time, or slowly or however, I think I would be willing to translate it to my language(Hungarian) and write the subtitles for it... but I am not avaible as it is now.(and the automatic translation is utterly awful)
Okay. I would not have time to do the translation right now anyway, or maybe if I did it slowly, small piece by peice. Still I would be glad if I had the option to do it. Thank you for your quick response though! Edit: I think it is explained how to do it, here: support.google.com/youtube/answer/6052538?hl=en
I think the reason their Van was garbage is because if you're running scams 24/7 and evading taxes, you really don't want to pull attention to yourself with expensive things that would make others think about the status of your income.
Hmm, I could make $200 a day, but I’d have to work my tail off. Stopped doing it because of how stressful it was. It’s true, though, it’s a lot of money.
You didn't like Cars 3? Really? That surprises me - I saw it for the first time earlier this week and really quite enjoyed it. A far, FAR superior movie to Cars 2 in my opinion, however still can't compare to the utterly magnificent original. I would actually go so far as to say that you could completely omit Cars 2 from the series and would lose nothing.
The bird-only Zootopia makes me think of the Arakkoa in Warlords of Draenor. The bias being from who can and can't fly. I think Zootopia did an overall okay job with its message but I think the original concept (especially the shock collars) would have been more interesting.
I just would like to mention, that yes, Nick says he makes 200 dollars a day... but on the other hand, one piece of ice-cream he wants to purchase costs 15 dollars...so it might just be that dollar is weaker in Zootopia's world?
It was, but that should not be a factor to determine it's price, that would be unfair towards big animals, it would mean smaller animas would need to pay much less for their food than bigger animals. That would be unbalanced.
"It was, but that should not be a factor to determine it's price" It's totally a factor to determine its price. Zootopia is a parallel for various forms of prejudice and injustice in the real world. And in that real world, you think the price cares about whether or not it's fair? If you have certain disadvantages, you pay more for stuff (insurance doesn't reimburse everything about certain pathology for example, assuming you can even afford insurance), or simply being a 2m giant compared to someone 3/4 of your size and nearly half your weight, you eat way more, you have a much harder time clothing yourself (if you do it tailor made, you pay waaay more). The bigger ice cream absolutely is way more expensive in Zootopia, otherwise ice cream (and food) vendors would have a bias against big customers. It's possible that the economy revolving around being huge means that the physical jobs are much better paid than in our world (since the size difference is way more important), there might be tons of ways this works out. But in the end, one way it won't work out is with the ice cream being the same price for every size, so yeah 200$ a day is indeed a lot if ice cream that size are sold for 15$.
Sometimes I suspect the reason why you refuse to discuss certain issues is because you're just completely, blissfully unaware of them. The reason why Judy used the word "articulate" is because that was (and still is) a very common way for (white) Americans to refer to (black) Americans who speak well. The idea being that these sub-human creatures are impressively being able to affect an air of intelligence. It's suuuuper racist, and was very, very common in American media from 2008 to 2016 for obvious reasons. There's really no way to *really* discuss Zootopia without diving headfirst into American culture, and for better and for worse, American culture is defined by race and prejudice.
Oh look, found the racist SJW. Knew if I kept scrolling I'd find such a revolting creature eventually. Why don't you crawl back into whatever pit of hell you crawled out of?
As a black person, hearing Judy call Nick 'articulate' hit me in a very particular way. My eyes nearly rolled into orbit.
Forgive me for asking - I'm not from the US - but I've seen this a bit in US TV. Like black person that is an Athlete - yeah that is normal. But black person that is also smart? How extraordinary. I shiver when I think how people see other people based on something that insignificant as color of skin.
Does this happen often or is this more of media blowing it out of proportion? I've never been in US, so it's hard for me to find out the truth.
@@jannegrey My personal experience as a white resident of a city in the midwest: absolutely nothing stops any individual black person from attaining a reasonably high position of authority, social prestige, respect, money, and other such things. Colin Powell, Clarence Thomas, Denzel Washington, Oprah Winfrey...just four out of thousands of famous black people who have succeeded in spite of the supposed racism that's everywhere. Now, the USA is a country with over a third of a billion people, and so even though we have thousands of celebrities, there are millions more people who aren't. So maybe there are some examples of discrimination built into our system, but they don't all go in the same direction...a very significant number of individuals can succeed in spite of discrimination against them, or perhaps because of some discrimination in their favor.
But on a day to day basis, living in some fairly poor neighborhoods and working in others, I see a lot of individuals, most of whom are black or otherwise nonwhite, who act in a very antisocial and obnoxious fashion. Is it because of the way they were raised? Is it a crime of ignorance? Or are they just kinda crappy low-quality people, who happen to be black ghetto dwellers because they're in the city, but a similar percentage of white people who are just as dumb and just as given to aggression, and instead of gang-bangers with do-rags, they all become rednecks and trailer-trash instead, just because they live in the country instead of the city.
So politicians from the liberal Democrat party tend to target the black/urban vote, pushing for more affirmative action and more government spending aimed at urban renewal, more schools and more roads and more "affordable" housing, so the country's population is pushed more toward the cities and more toward racial diversity...and meanwhile, our conservative Republican party mostly relies on traditional Christian families which are largely white and largely country-dwelling, and they try to have a smaller government that doesn't do all these social programs that are supposed to change everything. This gets painted as the Republicans being racists a lot, especially by the Democrats, but the reality is a lot more complicated than there just being white supremacists everywhere.
In my city-dwelling career, I've heard references to the KKK exactly once outside of media stories....I absolutely do not think there's a bunch of big-time racism going on, not in my part of the world at least. Whether there's a lot of subtle layers of discrimination which are slowly grinding down entire populations and making them produce a lower *percentage* of exceptional individuals than they "should"....that's a lot harder to definitively say it isn't happening.
@@jannegreya lot of it is blown way out of proportion by pop culture, there are exceptions nevertheless. I live in the deep south of the U.S where the concentration of black people is significantly higher than a lot of other places, and a lot of them are very normal and down to earth like any other person. again, there are exceptions but that is a far cry to what pop culture tries to depict.
One of my personal favorits is the scene when Mr. Big basicly makes judy part of the familie and there is a brief shot of nick and his look is like "I know so many people and have so many conections i worked at my entier live, and all this bunny has to do is one nice thing and she has the most powerfull connection of them all".
I was told I was articulate when a teenager in school. That bit hit me. I remember saying, "daaamn!"
Great rumination. I thoroughly enjoy listening to you. Thank you so much man.
One of your best Ruminations in recent memory. Really glad you got to pick this one yourself! You seem a lot more into it then you otherwise would be. More enthused. :)
It was an extremely pleasant surprise to get a notification for this video, I never expected you to do a rumination on Zootopia period, let alone choose it when given free reign to pick anything. This is my favorite Disney animated movie and probably my favorite animated film of all time. I went into it with my only knowledge on the movie being the sloth trailer, hyped for it's potential just from that and it exceeded even my high expectations. The paradox you mentioned with that kind of trailer didn't bother me that much in this instance, as they didn't show the entire scene and the characters/animation are just so good to make it almost never get old. IIRC, Judy wasn't retired for three months, we only know from Rich Moore that the time between the press conference and Judy&Nick making up was 2.5-3 months. She was probably back home for only a few weeks at most if she only just found out about her parents partnership with Gideon in that scene.
I think they left out birds and reptiles because, well... Predators have to eat something. Although, and I don't know if it's canon or only in fanfictions, but some people say predators eat bug-made stuff, (as in, protein comes from bug farming) so it could work.
I believe they did that because it makes more sense: it's logical for a phoenomenon of evolution to affect a population base sharing an overwhelming amount of the same dna, as all mamals do. It wouldn't make sense for reptiles or birds who share very little of it with us.
Maybe they will get their own movie as a bug's life did.
What doesn't make sense is that sea mamals are not represented, though they still share that characteristc with us.
They do eat fish (at least). You can see a fish market in the background.
I think the reason is anatomy. All mammals have almost the same muscles, but in different proportion. The devs had to limit themselves to humanoid anatomy so they could make believeable anthropomorphic characters that still retained almost all of their anatomy. Crocodiles or lizards couldn't walk on two legs and birds wouldn't be able to grab things. Though they do have a similar problem with hooved mammals and touch screens...
Eating bug stuff is canon; in that scene where Nick was taking down Judy a peg or two, just before he opened up several wood panels of a fence, there's an empty box of "bugburga"
This is addictive. I don't do podcasts but Im going to have to find a way to listen to your stuff via youtube while Im at the gym and working. I guess I just had to find the right person. Because this is easy listening bliss. Listening to you is even good for my vocabulary. Not ashamed to admit it, lol. Love this channel.
As it happens, all of my videos also go live on my podcast in MP3 format (you can find a link to the RSS on my website, and I'm also on Itunes somewhere) if that helps.
Absolutely LOVE your ruminations on this movie. Top notch analysis! Mind if we feature this on ZNN? (It's a website that has been highlighting zootopia-related content for over two years now)
Absolutely, go ahead.
Fantastic! Here's the link: www.zootopianewsnetwork.com/2018/03/rumination-analysis-on-zootopia-by.html#more
If you like Zootopia's take on anthropomorphic animals, I'd recommend you check out Overgrowth. It feels like an extended version of little Judy's monologue about how bloody things were back in early days.
I had a feeling you'd agonize over what to choose, though perhaps I was mistaken about why. The effort was worth it, though. Not only was this a great choice in general, it's also a movie I've actually seen - and you'd be surprised how low the odds are on that. I'll refrain from gushing along with you (I loved the nose twitch thing too, but I didn't notice it nearly as much - I'll have to keep an eye out for it if I ever get to rewatch this) and limit myself to the theme you only briefly mentioned.
For the first 15 minutes or so, the movie beats you over the head with what looks like it's going to be the central theme: follow your dreams, you can do anything if you try, etc. A typical Disney message, but it was done so over-the-top saccharine that I was tempted to stop watching. I think it reaches its peak with Judy telling Finnick that he can become an elephant as long as he never gives up on his dreams. But beginning pretty much there, the movie starts repeatedly subverting that message. This is no fairy tale; it really serves up some harsh, unglamorous reality at times, and a big part of Judy's character arc is her gradually reconciling that reality with the naive optimism of her childhood. Her closing monologue captures it well:
"When I was a kid, I thought Zootopia was this perfect place where everyone got along and anyone could be anything. Turns out, real life's a little bit more complicated than a slogan on a bumper sticker. Real life is messy. We all have limitations. ... no matter what type of animal you are, from the biggest elephant to our first fox, I implore you: try. Try to make the world a better place."
This is a remarkably down-to-Earth message, especially for a Disney movie, and it still manages to deliver it in a way that inspires hope in typical Disney fashion. I know you don't like too much of this sort of realism in your fiction, but at this point in my life this kind of thing really resonates with me.
This is up there with the LotR ruminations as some of your best this year - I actually can't think of another one offhand that I liked more. This is exactly the kind of rumination I was hoping for when I made the request. Well done, sir. Now we'll all be looking forward to seeing what you choose next year even more. No pressure! (mwahahahaha! (#not_evil (#evil)))
When I first saw this film, it really bothered me how hard Judy grabs the idiot ball (and a little bit of the evil slash jerk ball too) during the press conference scene. It is still very much plot convenience how hard she plays into Bellweather's hands, but it wasn't quite as bad as I initially thought, which is part of why I did end up rewatching that scene rather than skipping it (along with just having been busy). The first thing Judy says which makes everything start going wrong is when she quotes the "biology" concept...which the badger scientist from the lab scene with Lionheart had specifically said. Now she didn't know Judy was there, so she couldn't have been intentionally priming Judy for that scene....but she could have been priming *Lionheart*, hoping that he'd drop the word in some press conference and get the idea into the heads of prey animals everywhere that predator biology is a problem. Then combine that with the fact that of the reporters who immediately bombard Judy with follow-up questions....the first one is a RAM. Might well have been one of Doug's henchmen, I couldn't really tell...but sheep are almost as fecund as rabbits, so maybe Bellwether's little ovine mafia has one heck of a lot of brothers, and one of them was intentionally planted into the news media for the same reason that Bellwether herself got into the Mayor's office. So while Judy still gets some of the blame for having said exactly the right wrong things during that conference, a fair amount of it can be assumed to be Xanatos gambits on Bellwether's part.
Getting a Rumination on this was such a pleasant surprise! My wife and I recently caught this movie online and we also enjoyed how the dilemmas and the characters were handled. Good for kids but having real peril and some nice observations on prejudice that were not overly simplified. We also really loved Judy and Nick. The animation for Judy was so much fun to watch. Thanks again for the rumination!
You know, i missed completely why Nick wanted that pen so badly the first time I watched it. I kept thinking it was a special pen that he couldnt live without. I didnt know it had a recording of him confessing to tax evasion! Thats awesome
Can't wait until that Jurassic park rumination
You need to do more animated ruminations, they are wonderful! Would love to see you comment on the Disney Animated Canon, the Pixar Animated Canon, or even Don Bluth's Animated Canon.
Would love to see a rumination on The Land Before Time or The Emperor's New Groove but can never bring myself to request anything but video games.
“How recent did predators and prey come together?” All things considered, probably 3 generations ago. Judy’s parents understood they’re all supposed to get along, but probably didn’t grow up seeing their parents not acting prejudicely.
Your last line that you said around 1:07:50 or so reminded me of something. Unity among humans on a significant scale never comes from a genuine desire to co-operate, cohabit, or join forces. It always come from the need to unify in order to defeat a greater threat to everyone. Unity of the kind that many people preach, endorse, or glorify is a delusion that helps people convince themselves that they are more righteous than they are. True unity is a disposable utility, always an alliance of convenience. That is why multiculturalism doesn't work, because while multi racialism works, it only does so when you have a complete cultural hegemony.
I have so much to catch up on. I’m new (relative to now) and I have to go back through to see all your amazingness.
I got this movie out because of this Rumination. My first viewing of it, which was last night, I thought it was okay but overrated. The following day, as in today, I was feeling lazy when I woke up, so to get my brain working again, I replayed the movie, skipping over the first two scenes and past the sloth gag (which was a funny joke once, but intentionally difficult to sit through, so I had no desire to watch it a second time). I also planned on skipping the press conference scene, but ended up watching that after all. The omission of these weaker scenes significantly improved my experience of watching the film, which combined with its very ear-wormy, but not actually bad, theme song, has cause it to work its way into my interests a lot more than on the first viewing.
I still don't think it's high on Pixar's best list...the fact that it's firmly a Disney-Pixar work rather than just a Pixar work is very obvious to me, so the people just don't act as human as in a movie like Incredibles or Inside Out. Instead, they're very obviously doing a Disney-esque furry-animals world, but it's an evolved version of it, both because of Pixar's influence and just because it's a much more modern work, but it feels like the Disney world of Kingdom Hearts might have been the Disney planet in like the 16th century, and this is what it turned into over the following five centuries.
Still, IMO this setting's worldbuilding doesn't really quite work, specifically because they can't quite make up their mind whether the animal-people are basically people or if they're mostly animal, and whether they're all the same under the skin or if they have bone-deep differences that have to be taken into account. They're trying to do an Aesop about real-world people by analogizing them to these animals, but they want to emphasize the fact that anyone can be anything in spite of their differences, which means they have to HAVE differences, and the schizophrenia involved in that intended message really limits the work's effectiveness.
Fantastic video. I just saw this film for the first time not too long ago after seeing it rated so high on RT, and I absolutely loved it.
1:02:35 you did your research well, but not well enough. there are 2,5 to 3 months break there, but it is not from the time she quites to when she comes back, instead it is between lionheart's arrest and bellweather's arrest. and considering she reunited with gideon only at the very end of that time, she likely quit for a week at most, not longer
My favorite Disney animation ever!
Same here! Lilo and Stitch is a close second to me, though i am not considering Pixar movies as they are their own studio with their own completely different style of animation and storytelling if you ask me.
Choose your own rumination, that's... awesome. Well I got my coffee and i'm settled in to listen.
So nick knew very well just how big a deal getting the taxman's attention is, if your doing something nefarious. 33:20 I think that's why he deliberately don't want to give off the appearance of wealth. Just a thought.
Really great rumination. Would like to see you do more Disney movies. Heck, I'd love to hear a rumination on Don Rosa's Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck, even though that's quite a different format for this.
I'm so happy you decided to ruminate this.
One of my fav animated pictures.
I love that you did a rumination of this movie! Its the first animated rumination I've seen from you, did you do any others?
By the way, I only found your channel last year and I don't comment much, but you're doing superb work! I am also watching both your TNG and DS9 rumination series together with the shows. Love to hear your thoughts on fiction.
3 months of retirement?! No way, where did you find that out? That puts a whole different perspective on they scene.
Nice rumination, never expected you doing this movie.
Good thing you didn't go with the movie "obvious" and commented theme of racism. I don't like connecting this movie to color based racism, because both Nick and Judy are not victims of this type of racism, but more of gender and class bias. I think Nick is more a immigrant archetype or minority while Judy is "first woman" in police force. Good you focused on other aspects of the movie (but then, I am from eastern/middle europe so I am detached a lot from USA systemic racism).
I think Chief Bogo put Judy on a parking duty because he has under his wing mammals both big and small (but mostly big). Unicornis (or rhinoceros) is more fit for being a muscle while Judy with her agility, small frame, finesse and Bloody Mess won't stop a big bad wolf and instead should be put into more mundane duty, not to mention better put token bunny into job with less responsibility in case of her "ducking up". Maybe she would get better job after Bogo would see her biting the bullet and just doing her job.
I think Nick exaggerated with the amount of money he makes in a day. Not to mention I doubt he does the same shtick everyday but gives himself a day or two and goes again for a pawpsicles. While he is smart I think he doesn't save money but spends it pretty quickly (or another theory is that he pays to some mafia boss for doing business in his or her region).
About overcooked carrot, there is a delete/alternate scene called "Homesick Hopps" which presents the scene with Judy returning home, cooking dinner and talking with parents. Alternate scene is a bit slower and with much more feels and little jokes, I like it more than what we see in the movie. Homesick Hopps can be found on youtube.
One thing I didn't like about Zootopia (otherwise it's a perfect movie!!!21121@1). After panther attack and Chief Bogo demanding Judy's badge*, I realised she had the evidence. She found Otterton (east Devon) ID card in Mr. Big's limo. She could show Bogo this finding and tell him how she ended in here. She somewhat found what happened with this missing mammal and If given more time she could find out more. Of course in the movie it lead to a very deep and good scene between Judy and Nick but still, Bogo could still got the evidence.
All good points but why didn't you talk about why the tigers are so hot?
Awesome rumination, good sir! You brought things I never noticed... after more than 20 viewing!
will you go watch the incredibles 2 in the theatres? I don't have a niece living nearby to go with but I'm still tempted. I loved the family theme of the first so much I watched it over and over as a kid.
Ps: Thank you for this rumination, I really apreciate your work.
pps: 73000 a year
Great rumination, thank you for your continued hard work!
Great analysis as always, made me wanna watch the movie again.
I wonder, did you ever watch Moana and what did you think of it?
I've never had time to see it, no. In fact I've pretty much fallen behind on movies, only really making time to see ones that my friends and family want to see, and that are funded by the show.
This was great! You seemed so into it.
Hey Lorerunner! If you read new comments on your older posts: Is it on the owner of the channel to set adding custom subtitles avaible? Because I love Zootopia, and I would like if my parents could also "hear" this great analysis of yours, but they cannot speak english. If I'd ever get the time, or slowly or however, I think I would be willing to translate it to my language(Hungarian) and write the subtitles for it... but I am not avaible as it is now.(and the automatic translation is utterly awful)
If I'm honest, I have no idea how to do that! I'd be on board of course, if I figured that out.
Okay. I would not have time to do the translation right now anyway, or maybe if I did it slowly, small piece by peice. Still I would be glad if I had the option to do it. Thank you for your quick response though!
Edit: I think it is explained how to do it, here: support.google.com/youtube/answer/6052538?hl=en
JK Simmons is Lionhearts voice.
Lion's have Prides, not Packs.
Fish are friends, not food.
Can you do ruminations on the dino crisis games
He's not voiced by JJ, he's voiced by Cave Johnson!
I think the reason their Van was garbage is because if you're running scams 24/7 and evading taxes, you really don't want to pull attention to yourself with expensive things that would make others think about the status of your income.
I thought this was that one movie about the male model. Lol
Oh my goodness yes!
Hmm, I could make $200 a day, but I’d have to work my tail off. Stopped doing it because of how stressful it was. It’s true, though, it’s a lot of money.
$200 a day is $73,000 a year ($73,200 on leap years), tax free. 😉
About time!
I actually cried when Zootopia city was introduced with that omg so cheesy Shakira song. This city just speaks to me.
I wish you also do lost world and Jurassic park 3
You didn't like Cars 3? Really? That surprises me - I saw it for the first time earlier this week and really quite enjoyed it. A far, FAR superior movie to Cars 2 in my opinion, however still can't compare to the utterly magnificent original. I would actually go so far as to say that you could completely omit Cars 2 from the series and would lose nothing.
The bird-only Zootopia makes me think of the Arakkoa in Warlords of Draenor. The bias being from who can and can't fly.
I think Zootopia did an overall okay job with its message but I think the original concept (especially the shock collars) would have been more interesting.
I just would like to mention, that yes, Nick says he makes 200 dollars a day... but on the other hand, one piece of ice-cream he wants to purchase costs 15 dollars...so it might just be that dollar is weaker in Zootopia's world?
It's probably good to note that said ice cream was about three feet tall, given the height of the animals.
It was, but that should not be a factor to determine it's price, that would be unfair towards big animals, it would mean smaller animas would need to pay much less for their food than bigger animals. That would be unbalanced.
"It was, but that should not be a factor to determine it's price"
It's totally a factor to determine its price. Zootopia is a parallel for various forms of prejudice and injustice in the real world. And in that real world, you think the price cares about whether or not it's fair?
If you have certain disadvantages, you pay more for stuff (insurance doesn't reimburse everything about certain pathology for example, assuming you can even afford insurance), or simply being a 2m giant compared to someone 3/4 of your size and nearly half your weight, you eat way more, you have a much harder time clothing yourself (if you do it tailor made, you pay waaay more).
The bigger ice cream absolutely is way more expensive in Zootopia, otherwise ice cream (and food) vendors would have a bias against big customers. It's possible that the economy revolving around being huge means that the physical jobs are much better paid than in our world (since the size difference is way more important), there might be tons of ways this works out. But in the end, one way it won't work out is with the ice cream being the same price for every size, so yeah 200$ a day is indeed a lot if ice cream that size are sold for 15$.
+Richárd Kutsera Smaller animals consume less, and similarly produce less. Mutch like third world countries have weaker currencies.
You might really like the manga BEASTARS.
Zootopia is one of stupidest movies I've ever seen.
Sometimes I suspect the reason why you refuse to discuss certain issues is because you're just completely, blissfully unaware of them. The reason why Judy used the word "articulate" is because that was (and still is) a very common way for (white) Americans to refer to (black) Americans who speak well. The idea being that these sub-human creatures are impressively being able to affect an air of intelligence. It's suuuuper racist, and was very, very common in American media from 2008 to 2016 for obvious reasons.
There's really no way to *really* discuss Zootopia without diving headfirst into American culture, and for better and for worse, American culture is defined by race and prejudice.
Oh look, found the racist SJW. Knew if I kept scrolling I'd find such a revolting creature eventually. Why don't you crawl back into whatever pit of hell you crawled out of?
@@StarboyXL9 fuck you nazi. your boi lost.
Instead of race I think the word you're looking for is ethnicity.
You are all furries now.
Woah another video I really wanted are you reading my mind?!?