One part in this movie that I loved: When Vader is on the star destoryer, after the battle with Luke, and is pursuing the Melenimum Falcon which he knows his son is on. His admirals assure Vader that the hyperdrive has been deactivated so the ship won't be able to get far. Vader I think even tells his troops to set their guns to stun once they've captured the ship (if I remember correctly.) Then out of nowhere the Falcon suddenly activates lightspeed and is suddenly far out of Vader's reach. Now here I thought Vader was going to kill every admiral on the bridge (he's been doing that the whole movie, and if he's any reason to be pissed off its now), but instead he turns away, looks out the bridge again - almost to make sure that what he saw just happened - and then he leaves without saying a word. The entire time which Admiral what's-his-face looks scared shitless.
My favourite duel is the duel between Luke and Vader in Jedi, when Vader is pushing Luke to emerge by threatening his Sister. That music is just.....amazing. NEVER!
Hmm...your speech about Luke being more fit to become a Jedi because he had a childhood and learned to deal with things makes the old order even more scary and creepy. They take children and brainwash them because they fear any emotion or connection could corrupt them. They don't want persons...they want clay they can form. Never got that before.
Red to violet is actually a pretty brilliant analogy, because on the artistic Color Wheel, they're adjacent, but on the visible light spectrum, they're opposites.
When Yoda says 'There is another' about having another Hope, you could take it as Vader being the only hope left to turn good, which he does right at the end.
You mentioned Boba Fett's poise and stance and the way he moves. The fun and in my opinion very interesting thing about that his that his body actor, Jeremy Bulloch (who did not actually do the original voice, that was Jason Wingreen) very deliberately based a lot of his mannerisms on Clint Eastwood's portrayal of The Man with no Name. More specifically, the way he walked, and the way he held himself with his carbine almost always cradled so that he could be ready to use it at an instant's notice. Talking about how Lucas works so much better in a team, I do remember hearing that the original plan for the Prequels was to bring a different director in for each film, much as the OT does and as the Sequel Trilogy is as well. I don't know how true that is, but I do wonder how they might have turned out if things had gone that way, if Lucas hadn't had that control he did...
I love what's implied by Vader during his confrontation with Luke at Cloud City and saddened by how few people pick up on what Darth Vader is saying. "Join me, and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son..." Vader is literally willing to turn on Emporer Palpatine and cut him down if it means he can lower himself to co-ruler with his son, whom he'd thought dead so many years ago!
I think you're overthinking Yoda. Why did he decide to train Luke? That's not the question. The real question is, why wouldn't he? He has nothing to lose, he's too old to do anything himself, and it's not like anything he could do would make the situation -worse.- So, yeah... it was a gamble for Yoda, but it was a gamble he had no reason not to take--he had nothing to lose and everything to gain.
I concur. Yoda had no choice but to train Luke. I also think Obi-Wan played a nice role in convincing him, though. I'm under the impression that Yoda accepted his failures and was willing to just let the Empire be but Obi-Wan convinced him of Anakin's offspring and their strong connection to the Force as being the last hope to saving the Jedi and bringing balance to the Force. Once Obi-Wan convinced him of this, he was ready to give it one last shot.
Yoda might not have had anything to lose.. but Luke could lose his life, or worse.. be turned to the dark side. Why wouldn't he? Because even in the best case scenario he'd be giving Luke only a fraction of the training that a Jedi would normally receive, at an age they would never have considered giving it. There was the very real chance that he'd be giving Luke just enough to be dangerous, and making him a prime candidate for corruption, assuming he didn't get himself killed outright.
i agree , but if it failed yoda would be the biggest failure in the galaxy, now the two strongest force users ever anakin and luke kill palpatine and rule together starting the darth skywalker clan that will rule the sith for 1000s of years.
Lion Keon Except Luke was already a prime candidate for corruption. Yoda had three choices: 1. Let Luke be exposed to the dark side with no real understanding or experience with the Force. 2. Let Luke be exposed to the dark side with some basic understanding or experience with with the Force. 3. Murder Luke and dump the body in the swamp.
MWMTEE Is there much difference though? As things stood the Sith were going to rule the galaxy for as long as one could imagine. It just would change who the Sith Rulers were. Yoda had everything to gain and nothing to lose. The Skywalker clan ruling the galaxy is no different from another Sith being trained up by the Emperor or Vader down the road and doing so.
The Tarkin Incident your referring to is the one from the “Darth Vader and the Lost Command” comic, right? I love that comic. The entire thing shows Vader’s relentless nature and resilience. He gets blown up, has his helmet removed, is chained up for who knows how long, wakes up and then proceeds to kill his captors by only using the Force, and then gets buried alive for four days. The Padme Spirit scenes are great. Vader starts off pitying himself “I am only what my masters made me.” Padme calls him Anakin, which enrages Vader “Do not speak that name again. Anakin Skywalker is gone! He died with you!” Padme leaves. She later returns. She tells Vader that she never left him, Vader says “But you did leave... You died.” She replies “No. I did not die... You KILLED me. YOU.” Vader responds with “ Yes. I killed you. I killed Anakin. I killed the child you carried... And I HATE myself for all that I have done.” Then Padme tells him she forgives him. To me this is the moment that Anakin Skywalker fully embraced being Darth Vader. His hatred for himself, for the things he had done and for the Emperor, consumed him. Until he learned that he had a son. That one of his worst actions hadn’t happened, he hadn’t killed the child Padme carried. He hated himself slightly less, allowing a crack to form in the shell of hate that he had built. But through that crack, shown the light of a son’s love for his father. The shell broke when the man known as both Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader saw his son in pain, but still holding out that his father would save him. At that moment the shell broke, destroying the Sith Lord Darth Vader, and signaling the Return of the Jedi Anakin Skywalker, for the rest of his life.
I don't know if I'm retconning this or not, but here is just one reason The Force Awakens actually elevated the entire Star Wars story for me: It reiterated the theme of the failed master, failing due to his own arrogance. When I was watching Force Awakens and they did the flashback to Luke watching his school burn I could nearly hear Yoda's voice saying "Incomplete was your training". Luke took his 'winning' as the sign that he had completed his training and was therefore now a Jedi and not just a Jedi, a Jedi Master. And we see what sinks in to Luke is the realization that he has perpetuated a long line of arrogance that started with Yoda, then passed to Obi Wan, and Luke realized he fell into the same trap as well. So he is in reclusion now because he knows that going all the way back to Yoda, there's something they missed, some piece of knowledge or wisdom in the Jedi code that has been missing. And he won't get back into the game until he finds it, this time he is resolved no matter what to complete his training.
Interesting paralell, not beeing able to let go was Anakins downfall and the fact that Luke wasn't able to let his friends go, was almost Lukes downfall. It had to be very hard for Yoda to let Luke go, doing seemingly the same mistake that his Father did bevor him.
For years, I was waiting for Red Letter Media to review the Original Trilogy. Now, I no longer feel that. As with the Prequels, you have far exceed my expectations and have forever changed the way I experience the Star Wars story and universe.
Wait, the 97 version is your favorite version of Empire too? But that's the version that had Luke scream as he lets to of the mast and falls into cloud city's ventilation system. I for one am glad they removed that for the later versions.
Well, when you get down to it (and i know i tried to answer before, but i can articulate it better now), i think it was more of a question of how could he not train him. I mean, this was it. Luke was the reason he and Obi-Wan had been in exile for so long (as opposed to trying to make contact with the dozens of surviving Jedi still roaming about the galaxy). Suppose Yoda didn't train him, what then? Vader and the Emperor were still turning over every stone looking for him, so THEY could train him, and they would've had no reservations about it whatsoever. The Dark Side is far less picky on who it spreads to, as we've so often seen. And Luke wouldn't have stopped until he could have somehow dredged up his X-Wing and got back into the fight on his own, training or no training. So by common logic, in my view, it was very much now or never. That being said, i do like your reasoning better, since it highlights the positive more than the negative, and it's more of a lightside approach in all honesty. Just one thing bothers me a bit. When Yoda talks about Luke being too old, doesn't it sound like nitpicking? Almost like he's looking for a reason not to train him, like he's hesitating or something. I could possibly fathom why that would be, but it'd be just speculation. Still interesting, though. Also, the idea of Yoda berating Luke for not paying enough attention to his duties as a moisture farmer is simply priceless. I have just a thought on the Lightside vs Darkside dichotomy there. If the Lightside is all about Harmony, and the Darkside all about Disruption, and if at any given time that equation is severely out of balance (as it was, right then), don't you need to be a tad disruptive yourself, in order to try and get it back into balance? Now, i understand that by sticking to the Lightside, you'd eventually be steering things back into the will of the force, as it were, but would that really cover saving three people that would have otherwise been tortured to death because of the Dark Side? I mean, i could envision that by perfectly sticking to the Lightside, you might protect the harmony of the Force just as voraciously as the Darkside tries to disrupt it, but Yoda himself doesn't go with that train of thought. Or at least doesn't put it into practice. As for Yoda gambling with Luke, i'd just as soon call it trusting. Yes, Luke was failing by leaving at all, but then again, how much would history have changed if at some point in the past Yoda had said "Anakin, a big mistake i think you're making by attaching yourself to someone so, but tell me more so i can help you, as how important to you i can see this is"? Really, i think keeping Luke from going would have been potentially catastrophic, and i think Yoda knew that. Granted, the consequence of failure here would have been far worse than would have been if Yoda had agreed to help Anakin before, but then, that's how we're all tested in real life too, i think. About Luke vs Vader, despite both having fought in a war, their circumstances were very different. The Clone Wars were an artificially sparked conflict over taxation that the Jedi got baited and dragged into. Anakin's main motivation was getting his people through it in one piece and proving his worth to the Order. Even if the Republic had flat-out lost the war, the things he really cared about would still be safe, and waiting for him to come home. Until the things he cared about really WERE threatened, and we all know how that story ended. As for Luke, on the other hand, his first day as a member of the rebellion was spent racing down a Doomsday Weapon's trench, hoping to score an impossible shot before almost everything he had left to care about was wiped from existence, while under fire from an implacable enemy that just so happened to have more faith in his abilities than he himself did. It was never about what he could do, it was about what he MUST do, no matter what. So, when Luke realized Vader's trap - and i'm positive that he knew what was in store before he even left Dagobah, it was never a matter of whether or not he could pull it off. He WAS going to get in that fighter, and he WAS going to Bespin and he was going to dish out everything the Vader would throw at him (because he had no way to avoid that), and no matter what, he would NOT allow himself to fall to the Dark Side. And his face tells it all throughout the duel: yes, he is conflicted and emotional about it, but he keeps it all under control, because all that matters is doing what he came here to do, overwhelming odds and Dark Lords be damned. And when everything else fails and he is physically crippled and mentally destroyed, he still has the determination to deny Vader by laying down his own life. This is speculating, but i think Vader knew all along that Luke had survived. I don't think he wouldn't have just gone back to business otherwise. He's still angry, of course - i'm pretty sure that until he got back into orbit, he only ever said the 3 words that we heard him say (and he did only ever say those 3 words, because talking about alerting his Star Destoyer to lay down the red carpet for him would just be stupid). And here's a thought of mine, i think he went right into orbit because he knew that if he dared corner Luke again so soon, he'd finish the job and throw himself into Bespin this time. Better to allow the Falcon to extract him, and try to ease him into it before his forces dragged him to the Executor. There's also something interesting about his attitude on the bridge, and i could be wrong about this, but as far as i remember, he only ever compliments an officer on a job well done when it's something concerning his son (i know saying "good" isn't normally much of a compliment, but this is Vader). I can't remember if i normally end these diatribes with something fitting, but i'm clearly failing in this case. I could gush, but then this would only get a lot longer.
I'm not sure I'd say that Luke "Failed," necessarily. Sure by some accounts this is accurate: He lost the fight, had (seemingly) little to do with the rescue of his friends and indeed didn't get there in time to save Han. But here's the thing: He wasn't going there with the intention of killing, beating, or even fighting Vader. He was going there to and indeed succeeded at drawing Vader (and all Vader's assets) away from his friends. He went there to serve as the focus and target for the enemy to protect the people he cared about, indeed couldn't live without and it worked. Granted it was partially Vader's intent to lose interest in anyone else once Luke showed up, but I firmly believe the escape plan would not have succeeded had Luke stayed away as Yoda wanted. Because Vader+CO would have still had all their intent and focus and bearing on holding on to the bait and would have stopped at nothing to keep it. And Luke KNEW that. Also in a meta sense Luke knew that without Han and Leia specifically the Rebellion was doomed anyway, so had he listened to Yoda and Obi Wan's ghost the Galaxy would have fallen. By following his heart rather than Jedi Dogma he saved the Galaxy from eternal darkness and destruction.
I like how you quote Palpatine, but may not agree with the quote itself. I can sympathize more with Yoda with Luke leaving. It's not just that he's irreparably hurting his training. He may not come back from this at all. Plus, Yoda's health is deteriorating. He doesn't have much time left and any time that Luke is gone is going to cut any legitimate training he can give him. Doctrine or no doctrine, that's a serious loss. I think Yoda again had no choice but to let Yoda leave. There is no real backup plan. His sister technically exists, but again Yoda isn't in the best shape here and being trained by force ghosts might be a questionable success. Luke is the last gamble. If Yoda wanted he could physically stop Luke, but he'd lose him anyways. It could push Luke to the dark side by letting his friends die and Yoda being the reason he couldn't try to save them. There was no bartering position left to Yoda.
Im thinking about, what is Vader/Anakin thinking, after he revealed to Luke, that he ist his fahter? I mean, he spends month searching for him, looking forward to meet him, hoping to unite with him. And the big moment he hopes his son is joinging him, Luke says "Noooo" and starts crying. If my son would do that, I would be deeply hurt. And you talked about Anakin waking up in Vader. So, dont you think he may be sad or dissapointed or shoked too? Its like "You are the worst father ever!", right in your face - and you know its true!
This isn't the first time Anakin didn't get what he wanted when he thought he was acting in good faith: He went to back to Tattooine to search for my mom to save her, only for her to die in his arms. He was put on the Jedi council because he had thought his hard work and patience over the years had finally paid off, only for him to be told he wasn't being granted the rank of Master and that the only reason he was on the council member was because of his relationship with Palpatine. He turned to the Dark Side, killing almost all of his Jedi allies and the remaining enemies of the Republic in order to protect Padme from her impeding death, only for her to not want to be with him anymore and she dies soon afterwards. After everything he's been through, it's probably safe to say he's pretty much used to it and will press on if he has to, even though it always stings and hurts nevertheless.
ESB will always be the best. Not the deepest plot, but the characters, dialogue and music made it perfect. It's the most artistic. The Oz Yoda is superior puppertry and feels more real than CGI even it doesn't look that real. The CGI looks real but feels fake.
That Han Solo “Then I’ll see you in hell” line is so Harrison Ford. It reminds me why he got the part of Indiana Jones in Raiders of the Lost Ark, which came out a year after this movie. That jerk leader with a heart of gold is a typecast role that Harrison has used to build his entire career off of.
I've always thought it was funny that it was your FFVIII video that got me introduced to your channel. But yeah, the extended universe (Heir to the Empire) made this entry even better, at least for me. Easily one of my favorite movies of all time.
Arch no offense but I'm wondering why you thought putting the Emperor's Scream into Luke when he was falling at the end was a good addition? It comes off as comical, and obviously sounds nothing like Luke.
Great commentary! I saw The Empire Strikes Back in 1980 when I was six years old and though I enjoyed this film it also messed me up. It showed me that the hero's journey comes with a price and the good guys don't always win. I left the theater stunned. Empire didn't go on become my favorite Star Wars film until I got a little older. Yes! Empire also has the pinnacle of all lightsaber duels.
Okay, Arche, I have to ask, what do you mean his adoptive parents that Luke thought were his real parents? He called them uncle and aunt, Owen mentioned his father, so...color me a little confused.
Hamill is an amazing voice actor. Have you ever heard the radio versions of ep 4 and 5? In my opinion theyre very good and hamills skill shines in them. 6 is okay but they replaced hamill at that point i believe.
I gotta applaud the phenomenal work of the Jim Henson company for their work with the Yoda puppet. Especially given how limited the technology they had to work with at the time. Fast forward twenty years or so and they go on to create Rygel XVI and Pilot. It makes me wonder what they could have done with Yoda, if they had had the same technology that they had when doing Farscape.
I echo your praise of Mark Hamill having to act primarily with a puppet. In the movie Return to Oz, the child actor Fairuza Balk had to act the entire film with the same scenario, only she had about 5 different puppets in her scenes!
Wow I love this rumination. I can't wait for your views on VI. Between V and VI, I still can't decide which is my favorite to this day. Great job as always. Edit: I actually had to rewatch the part where you talk about Luke Vs. Vader, cause holy crap your enthusiasm O_o
I'm enjoying these analyses very much. Any Extended Universe works anybody can recommend ? I watched all the main movies (except Ep.7), but never had much interest in Star Wars, but Arch is kindling that interest.
+John Doe A few basics come to mind immediately; the Thrawn trilogy, the Jedi Academy trilogy, the Corellian trilogy, the Black Fleet Crisis, the Rogue Squadron books, and the Thrawn Duology. Other works include KOTOR 1 and 2, the Dark Empire comics (just 1 and 2, not 3), and the entire Jedi Knight series of games.
+Lorerunner By the way, any particular order ? I ask because I don't want to be in a position where someone is new to Star Wars and watches the movies in episodic order instead of release order & gets Empire spoiled.
+John Doe Everything I listed happens after Return of the Jedi, in the relative order I listed them as, except for KOTOR 1 and 2 which has nothing to do with the rest.
I just recently discovered your series videos analyzing Star Wars and Star Trek movies. I have actual enjoyed these very much. I discovered your videos series by accident. I was actually in the process of watching a series of UA-cam videos of a motion comics based on "Heir to the Empire" when your Ruminaton of the Thrawn Trilogy appeared my recommended compiled list. So I watched it, I was very impressed and so I went forward watching all of you Star Wars and Star Trek Ruminations. Now having said that. I would absolutely love to get your views and analysis on a novel called "Star Wars: Splinter of the Mind's Eye" by Alan Dean Foster. WHY? Because it is unique in three ways, first it is the first ever Expanded Universe novel, secondly it was the ONLY Star Wars novel that George Lucas went to a writer and personally request for him to write it, and thirdly it is the ONLY Star Wars novel that was ever written with a true realistic aspiration of being actually made into a movie. In 1977 prior to the first theatrical release of Star Wars, George Lucas asked Alan Dean Foster to write that novel as a low budget sequel to Star Wars if it should fail at the box office. This way George Lucas could throw a make-shift sequel together to re-coop some of the money he would've lost by reusing the same props over again in the low budget sequel. This is also why Han Solo isn't in the novel, because actor Harrison Ford wan't under contract and if Star Wars failed he wouldn't have been available for a sequel. It is for this reason George Lucas specifically asked Alan Dean Foster to leave Han Solo out of the sequel story. These facts alone would make your analysis of Star Wars: Splinter of the Minds Eye interesting, not to mention your analysis of contrasting it against Empire Strikes Back (Kinda like the Sequel we got versus the sequel we would've got if the first Star Wars had been a box office failure.which in of itself would be an interesting side by side comparison
I think both Vader and Anakin wanted to see Luke. Kinda like a split identity deal. Where like you said, after failing an attempt at suicide Anakin just “went to sleep”, I think Luke woke Anakin up. So while the identity “Vader” was looking for Luke so offer the Galaxy to him and rule by his side, I think that was driven subconsciously by Anakin and the spark of hope in seeing his son. I thin while Anakin wanting you to just see him, I think he also wanted to find him to and motivate him to defeat him. To finally end his suffering and to end the suffering his fall to darkness caused the whole Galaxy. Kind of a “Look at what I became. Vader(I) may be offering you the Galaxy but it will only lead to ruin. And suffering. Your suffering, your friends’ suffering, and the Galaxy’s suffering... and the Jedi will forever suffer for it too. If you are my son, you are far more powerful than I, and you may be able to do what I could not. Remain strong and steadfast where I crumbled, and foolishly and selfishly caused everyone in the Galaxy to suffer.” It was a 60/40 Anakin/Vader.
I think, I admit I'm not 100% sure, but I think when Luke and Dart Vader were fighting in that last scene that neither of them knew that they are related.
Dagobah has a Force nexus point similar to the one found on Tatooine in swtor it where the force can interact with the physical world to help character find their path
Whenever you said 'Lando' I thought it came out as 'Londo', so I kept thinking Centauri on Cloud City. =) My only nitpicks with the SE was right after the duel. First off, Luke's 'ahhh!' as he's falling. The other was originally Vader growled 'Bring my shuttle', but in the SE he keeps talking. I thought his original, curt answer felt more...dangerous? I felt the same reveal twist in KoTOR, though I've heard more than a few people say that the clues were there. =) I remember when Yoda said his 'There is another...' line and I wondered who was he talking about?? At this point I don't think there was much in terms of hints that Leia was Luke's sister. Another great Rumination!
Did you ever wonder how the Millennium Falcon manages to travel from the Hoth system to the Bespin system without a working hyperdrive? Or how Luke's one-seat short-range X-wing fighter now conveniently has one so he can break off from the Rebel forces and travel independently to Dagobah (without even telling anyone he'll be gone for some time?) Or how after blindly crash landing and completely sinking into a swamp on a planet with no technological resources, Luke and R2 manage to restore the waterlogged ship to flight-ready condition with only the tools they brought along? Did you ever wonder if the screenwriters asked themselves these questions? The Star Wars universe never concerns itself with the realism of finite resources and energy costs unless it becomes necessary to the plot. Otherwise, the ships never need refueling and the blasters never need reloading. The above points are just plot holes that were skipped over out of necessity, but still feels like sloppy storytelling if you analyze it for even a moment.
Not sure if you'll catch this on such an old video, and maybe you did notice it... Listening to you expand on how Vader never knew his kids were born, there is a very specific shot in episode 3 of Padme during her funeral showing the baby bump still there, presumably to throw off everyone that her kids were never born. Took me a few views to even realize what they were doing and why. Makes even more sense now knowing Vader had no idea about him (and Leia too I guess).
It makes perfect sense too; they had to ensure Palpatine (if nothing else) didn't know about any children, hence ensuring Padme died 'prior to giving birth'.
Why did it require detective work for Vader to figure out who Luke was when he actually saw him on the Death Star? Unlike Obi-Wan, Luke had no way to "cloak" himself, do his Force presence should have been obvious,.
Monkismo In-universe, Luke might have had force potential but he never showed any prowess with it while on the Death Star, so Vader might have ignored that. As well as the fact that Obi Wan overshadowed the untrained Luke and Vader honed in on Obi-Wan to the point of obsession. out of universe? they hadn't come up with the force presence yet. Likely the original reason Vader could sense Obi-Wan was because he was his master and so he knew him and what he 'felt' like rather well.
vader had never felt lukes presense before. you need to be within a certain range to actually sense it. the death star battle was the first time the two had ever encountered one another
I am planning to watch the Star Wars movies with my parents but I don't know if I should show them the original trilogy first or the prequels. Any suggestions ?
Vega Goose That's such a cruel order. Right after the wonderful cliffhanger you make them watch 3 movies that will provide no answers for them. Especially 1 and 2.
Sigh, I keep coming back to the fact that The Prequels would have worked so much better if Annakin had already been in his late teens when Obi Wan met him, had already been an up & coming pilot in the Republic Navy, in spite of his youth (along with his brother, Owen).....but far too obsessed with Order & Peace....at any cost. The Vader we see in Rogue One & A New Hope isn't some otherwise innocent soul who gets tricked into serving Palpatine, IMHO.
Wow, it's almost as if the prequels ruined the mystique of the Old Republic/Clone Wars, destroyed the mythos of Darth Vader, did an extremely poor job of convincingly explaining his fall from grace, and were a bad idea all around, because some things are best left to the imagination...
Yet again, I disagree with the 'physically there = automatically better' notion. Puppet Yoda lacks a lot of the subtlety and minor lifelike details of CGI Yoda. There's advantages to both, and I am sick of hearing the same stupid line over and over. Also, there's no discernible difference between the Boba Fett voices. He's excessively overhyped anyway.
if i may critique your critique, I feel like a lot of the weight you feel for these scenes comes more from nostalgia than you are likely willing to admit.
It's funny that you mentioned Boba Fett being considered the greatest bounty hunter of all time, when there was a video posted on the Star Wars channel just a couple of days ago about the top 10 bounty hunters of the galaxy - and they put Cad Bane at #1! I mean, what the hell? Who even compares Cad Bane to Boba Fett? Also, I hope you will forgive me for having to nitpick here, but I think the weakest part of the movie is the whole Falcon sequence between when they get off Hoth and when they get to Cloud City. Yes, I know it's interesting that the hyperdrive is broken, and yes there are some great moments in that sequence, but still, am I supposed to buy that they get to Cloud City on sublight engines? Wouldn't that take, I don't know, years? To me that just breaks the immersion, but maybe I'm just picky that way that way. And you can add the space worm to that impression too.
+MBF78 Most ships have a backup hyperdrive engine that is significantly worse than the main engine. It's very likely that the Millenium Falcon had a second engine, but it would have been a class 12 hyperdrive, which would take 24 times as long to get anywhere. Since the Falcon only had limited food aboard, that explains the urgency of finding a local system.
Lore reason: Hyperspace vectors are easy to trace, and calculating new routes takes a lot of processing power and time. Han could have rested easy in the knowledge that the Falcon's modified hyperdrive could outrun anything in the Imperial Fleet, and thus that this tracing would not matter. Without his main engine, the Imps would have had plenty of time to set up ambushes at their projected arrival points. He had to wait until he could jump unobserved (though Boba did see his jump and was able to trace him to Bespin and get an Imperial force their before them). The real reason: there was no science adviser involved in the production of Empire as far as I am aware- it is very likely that nobody involved thought about the ridiculous amount of time a sublight trip between systems would entail.
I disagree on John Williams. He peaked with Empire and became more and more "safe" later in his career. Less modern, more traditional. This soundtrack is his best work, which makes it's abysmal mastering so frustrating.
Say what you will about The Last Jedi.... but ghost Yoda being a puppet is so much better than prequel Yoda... not only in appearance but the characterization as well.
I would love to hear a rumination of The Force Unleashed, the first game not the sequal (which I, sorry to all the fans of it, did not like one bit) and hear your thoughts on that take on the origins of the rebel alliance.
Dude it's Lando not Londo! I thought you made up some other character! Londo? It drives me nuts, this isn't the first character name you butcher....still love your ruminating
I wish I could share in your enthusiasm of this movie but I'll be honest- I hate Empire. It is easily the worst movie of the series, at least in my opinion. The only part I like about it is the duel on Cloud City. Well that and the music. That said, I cannot wait for your Jedi rumination. Easily my favorite of the three.
In general? Weak romance, a largely wooden performance from Harrison Ford, a lack of depth or pathos to Princess Leia, who has been reduced to little more than a serial complainer, significant issues with the duel in the cave, a lack of interest in Luke's character arc, the rather boring battle of hoth, the lack of tension in the cloud city escape, that moronic space worm, nearly every scene with 3P-0, the fact that Luke has next to no drive to learn more about his father from a man (yoda) who clearly knew him, do I really need to keep going?
+tomclancy008 Just for my personal enjoyment (it's fine if you dislike this film, I personally enjoy it the most of the Star Wars films): Can you tell me in contrast what the other 5 films do better given the same flaws you point out in Empire?
Everyone is a dark Jedi with you... I got news for you, the expanded universe doesn't count anymore and there is no such thing as a dark Jedi anymore. Plus George Lucas never intended for anyone to think that any of the characters in the films were dark Jedi. Maul and Palpatine are Sith, Luke is a Jedi. Simple as that. Unless they say the term 'dark jedi' in any of the new movies, shows, comic books, or novels it isn't a real thing in Star Wars.
In DISNEY'S Star Wars. In George Lucas's Star Wars they are definitely present. You can keep the Porges that the corporate overlords have decreed, the rest of us will keep the dark Jedi that the creator of Star Wars deemed canon.
Not afraid to admit this rumination is one of my comfort videos for if I'm having a tough time in life, or just having trouble coming down to Earth.
One part in this movie that I loved: When Vader is on the star destoryer, after the battle with Luke, and is pursuing the Melenimum Falcon which he knows his son is on. His admirals assure Vader that the hyperdrive has been deactivated so the ship won't be able to get far. Vader I think even tells his troops to set their guns to stun once they've captured the ship (if I remember correctly.) Then out of nowhere the Falcon suddenly activates lightspeed and is suddenly far out of Vader's reach.
Now here I thought Vader was going to kill every admiral on the bridge (he's been doing that the whole movie, and if he's any reason to be pissed off its now), but instead he turns away, looks out the bridge again - almost to make sure that what he saw just happened - and then he leaves without saying a word. The entire time which Admiral what's-his-face looks scared shitless.
My favourite duel is the duel between Luke and Vader in Jedi, when Vader is pushing Luke to emerge by threatening his Sister.
That music is just.....amazing. NEVER!
Hmm...your speech about Luke being more fit to become a Jedi because he had a childhood and learned to deal with things makes the old order even more scary and creepy. They take children and brainwash them because they fear any emotion or connection could corrupt them. They don't want persons...they want clay they can form. Never got that before.
That's why Anakin destroyed them...
Red to violet is actually a pretty brilliant analogy, because on the artistic Color Wheel, they're adjacent, but on the visible light spectrum, they're opposites.
So glad I found your channel, these ruminations are brilliant. Watched all the MGS ones already.
I think the one special edition everyone doesn't mind is where they replace Ian McDermit with who ever was the emperor in the original
When Yoda says 'There is another' about having another Hope, you could take it as Vader being the only hope left to turn good, which he does right at the end.
You mentioned Boba Fett's poise and stance and the way he moves. The fun and in my opinion very interesting thing about that his that his body actor, Jeremy Bulloch (who did not actually do the original voice, that was Jason Wingreen) very deliberately based a lot of his mannerisms on Clint Eastwood's portrayal of The Man with no Name. More specifically, the way he walked, and the way he held himself with his carbine almost always cradled so that he could be ready to use it at an instant's notice.
Talking about how Lucas works so much better in a team, I do remember hearing that the original plan for the Prequels was to bring a different director in for each film, much as the OT does and as the Sequel Trilogy is as well. I don't know how true that is, but I do wonder how they might have turned out if things had gone that way, if Lucas hadn't had that control he did...
I love what's implied by Vader during his confrontation with Luke at Cloud City and saddened by how few people pick up on what Darth Vader is saying.
"Join me, and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son..."
Vader is literally willing to turn on Emporer Palpatine and cut him down if it means he can lower himself to co-ruler with his son, whom he'd thought dead so many years ago!
I think you're overthinking Yoda. Why did he decide to train Luke? That's not the question. The real question is, why wouldn't he? He has nothing to lose, he's too old to do anything himself, and it's not like anything he could do would make the situation -worse.-
So, yeah... it was a gamble for Yoda, but it was a gamble he had no reason not to take--he had nothing to lose and everything to gain.
I concur. Yoda had no choice but to train Luke. I also think Obi-Wan played a nice role in convincing him, though. I'm under the impression that Yoda accepted his failures and was willing to just let the Empire be but Obi-Wan convinced him of Anakin's offspring and their strong connection to the Force as being the last hope to saving the Jedi and bringing balance to the Force. Once Obi-Wan convinced him of this, he was ready to give it one last shot.
Yoda might not have had anything to lose.. but Luke could lose his life, or worse.. be turned to the dark side. Why wouldn't he? Because even in the best case scenario he'd be giving Luke only a fraction of the training that a Jedi would normally receive, at an age they would never have considered giving it. There was the very real chance that he'd be giving Luke just enough to be dangerous, and making him a prime candidate for corruption, assuming he didn't get himself killed outright.
i agree , but if it failed yoda would be the biggest failure in the galaxy, now the two strongest force users ever anakin and luke kill palpatine and rule together starting the darth skywalker clan that will rule the sith for 1000s of years.
Lion Keon Except Luke was already a prime candidate for corruption.
Yoda had three choices:
1. Let Luke be exposed to the dark side with no real understanding or experience with the Force.
2. Let Luke be exposed to the dark side with some basic understanding or experience with with the Force.
3. Murder Luke and dump the body in the swamp.
MWMTEE
Is there much difference though? As things stood the Sith were going to rule the galaxy for as long as one could imagine. It just would change who the Sith Rulers were. Yoda had everything to gain and nothing to lose. The Skywalker clan ruling the galaxy is no different from another Sith being trained up by the Emperor or Vader down the road and doing so.
The Tarkin Incident your referring to is the one from the “Darth Vader and the Lost Command” comic, right? I love that comic. The entire thing shows Vader’s relentless nature and resilience. He gets blown up, has his helmet removed, is chained up for who knows how long, wakes up and then proceeds to kill his captors by only using the Force, and then gets buried alive for four days. The Padme Spirit scenes are great. Vader starts off pitying himself “I am only what my masters made me.” Padme calls him Anakin, which enrages Vader “Do not speak that name again. Anakin Skywalker is gone! He died with you!” Padme leaves. She later returns. She tells Vader that she never left him, Vader says “But you did leave... You died.” She replies “No. I did not die... You KILLED me. YOU.” Vader responds with “ Yes. I killed you. I killed Anakin. I killed the child you carried... And I HATE myself for all that I have done.” Then Padme tells him she forgives him. To me this is the moment that Anakin Skywalker fully embraced being Darth Vader. His hatred for himself, for the things he had done and for the Emperor, consumed him. Until he learned that he had a son. That one of his worst actions hadn’t happened, he hadn’t killed the child Padme carried. He hated himself slightly less, allowing a crack to form in the shell of hate that he had built. But through that crack, shown the light of a son’s love for his father. The shell broke when the man known as both Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader saw his son in pain, but still holding out that his father would save him. At that moment the shell broke, destroying the Sith Lord Darth Vader, and signaling the Return of the Jedi Anakin Skywalker, for the rest of his life.
I don't know if I'm retconning this or not, but here is just one reason The Force Awakens actually elevated the entire Star Wars story for me: It reiterated the theme of the failed master, failing due to his own arrogance. When I was watching Force Awakens and they did the flashback to Luke watching his school burn I could nearly hear Yoda's voice saying "Incomplete was your training". Luke took his 'winning' as the sign that he had completed his training and was therefore now a Jedi and not just a Jedi, a Jedi Master. And we see what sinks in to Luke is the realization that he has perpetuated a long line of arrogance that started with Yoda, then passed to Obi Wan, and Luke realized he fell into the same trap as well. So he is in reclusion now because he knows that going all the way back to Yoda, there's something they missed, some piece of knowledge or wisdom in the Jedi code that has been missing. And he won't get back into the game until he finds it, this time he is resolved no matter what to complete his training.
Good point
The way you lay out the final scene is so brilliant and enthralling. Love it! Can't wait to hear your feedback on Episode VII.
Interesting paralell, not beeing able to let go was Anakins downfall and the fact that Luke wasn't able to let his friends go, was almost Lukes downfall.
It had to be very hard for Yoda to let Luke go, doing seemingly the same mistake that his Father did bevor him.
I seriously sit there and smile the ENTIRE movie every time that I watch it :). I can't help it.
For years, I was waiting for Red Letter Media to review the Original Trilogy. Now, I no longer feel that. As with the Prequels, you have far exceed my expectations and have forever changed the way I experience the Star Wars story and universe.
Wait, the 97 version is your favorite version of Empire too? But that's the version that had Luke scream as he lets to of the mast and falls into cloud city's ventilation system. I for one am glad they removed that for the later versions.
Well, when you get down to it (and i know i tried to answer before, but i can articulate it better now), i think it was more of a question of how could he not train him.
I mean, this was it. Luke was the reason he and Obi-Wan had been in exile for so long (as opposed to trying to make contact with the dozens of surviving Jedi still roaming about the galaxy). Suppose Yoda didn't train him, what then? Vader and the Emperor were still turning over every stone looking for him, so THEY could train him, and they would've had no reservations about it whatsoever. The Dark Side is far less picky on who it spreads to, as we've so often seen. And Luke wouldn't have stopped until he could have somehow dredged up his X-Wing and got back into the fight on his own, training or no training. So by common logic, in my view, it was very much now or never.
That being said, i do like your reasoning better, since it highlights the positive more than the negative, and it's more of a lightside approach in all honesty.
Just one thing bothers me a bit. When Yoda talks about Luke being too old, doesn't it sound like nitpicking? Almost like he's looking for a reason not to train him, like he's hesitating or something. I could possibly fathom why that would be, but it'd be just speculation. Still interesting, though.
Also, the idea of Yoda berating Luke for not paying enough attention to his duties as a moisture farmer is simply priceless.
I have just a thought on the Lightside vs Darkside dichotomy there. If the Lightside is all about Harmony, and the Darkside all about Disruption, and if at any given time that equation is severely out of balance (as it was, right then), don't you need to be a tad disruptive yourself, in order to try and get it back into balance? Now, i understand that by sticking to the Lightside, you'd eventually be steering things back into the will of the force, as it were, but would that really cover saving three people that would have otherwise been tortured to death because of the Dark Side? I mean, i could envision that by perfectly sticking to the Lightside, you might protect the harmony of the Force just as voraciously as the Darkside tries to disrupt it, but Yoda himself doesn't go with that train of thought. Or at least doesn't put it into practice.
As for Yoda gambling with Luke, i'd just as soon call it trusting. Yes, Luke was failing by leaving at all, but then again, how much would history have changed if at some point in the past Yoda had said "Anakin, a big mistake i think you're making by attaching yourself to someone so, but tell me more so i can help you, as how important to you i can see this is"? Really, i think keeping Luke from going would have been potentially catastrophic, and i think Yoda knew that. Granted, the consequence of failure here would have been far worse than would have been if Yoda had agreed to help Anakin before, but then, that's how we're all tested in real life too, i think.
About Luke vs Vader, despite both having fought in a war, their circumstances were very different. The Clone Wars were an artificially sparked conflict over taxation that the Jedi got baited and dragged into. Anakin's main motivation was getting his people through it in one piece and proving his worth to the Order. Even if the Republic had flat-out lost the war, the things he really cared about would still be safe, and waiting for him to come home.
Until the things he cared about really WERE threatened, and we all know how that story ended.
As for Luke, on the other hand, his first day as a member of the rebellion was spent racing down a Doomsday Weapon's trench, hoping to score an impossible shot before almost everything he had left to care about was wiped from existence, while under fire from an implacable enemy that just so happened to have more faith in his abilities than he himself did. It was never about what he could do, it was about what he MUST do, no matter what.
So, when Luke realized Vader's trap - and i'm positive that he knew what was in store before he even left Dagobah, it was never a matter of whether or not he could pull it off. He WAS going to get in that fighter, and he WAS going to Bespin and he was going to dish out everything the Vader would throw at him (because he had no way to avoid that), and no matter what, he would NOT allow himself to fall to the Dark Side. And his face tells it all throughout the duel: yes, he is conflicted and emotional about it, but he keeps it all under control, because all that matters is doing what he came here to do, overwhelming odds and Dark Lords be damned. And when everything else fails and he is physically crippled and mentally destroyed, he still has the determination to deny Vader by laying down his own life.
This is speculating, but i think Vader knew all along that Luke had survived. I don't think he wouldn't have just gone back to business otherwise. He's still angry, of course - i'm pretty sure that until he got back into orbit, he only ever said the 3 words that we heard him say (and he did only ever say those 3 words, because talking about alerting his Star Destoyer to lay down the red carpet for him would just be stupid). And here's a thought of mine, i think he went right into orbit because he knew that if he dared corner Luke again so soon, he'd finish the job and throw himself into Bespin this time. Better to allow the Falcon to extract him, and try to ease him into it before his forces dragged him to the Executor. There's also something interesting about his attitude on the bridge, and i could be wrong about this, but as far as i remember, he only ever compliments an officer on a job well done when it's something concerning his son (i know saying "good" isn't normally much of a compliment, but this is Vader).
I can't remember if i normally end these diatribes with something fitting, but i'm clearly failing in this case. I could gush, but then this would only get a lot longer.
I'm not sure I'd say that Luke "Failed," necessarily. Sure by some accounts this is accurate: He lost the fight, had (seemingly) little to do with the rescue of his friends and indeed didn't get there in time to save Han. But here's the thing: He wasn't going there with the intention of killing, beating, or even fighting Vader. He was going there to and indeed succeeded at drawing Vader (and all Vader's assets) away from his friends. He went there to serve as the focus and target for the enemy to protect the people he cared about, indeed couldn't live without and it worked. Granted it was partially Vader's intent to lose interest in anyone else once Luke showed up, but I firmly believe the escape plan would not have succeeded had Luke stayed away as Yoda wanted. Because Vader+CO would have still had all their intent and focus and bearing on holding on to the bait and would have stopped at nothing to keep it. And Luke KNEW that.
Also in a meta sense Luke knew that without Han and Leia specifically the Rebellion was doomed anyway, so had he listened to Yoda and Obi Wan's ghost the Galaxy would have fallen. By following his heart rather than Jedi Dogma he saved the Galaxy from eternal darkness and destruction.
I like how you quote Palpatine, but may not agree with the quote itself.
I can sympathize more with Yoda with Luke leaving. It's not just that he's irreparably hurting his training. He may not come back from this at all. Plus, Yoda's health is deteriorating. He doesn't have much time left and any time that Luke is gone is going to cut any legitimate training he can give him. Doctrine or no doctrine, that's a serious loss.
I think Yoda again had no choice but to let Yoda leave. There is no real backup plan. His sister technically exists, but again Yoda isn't in the best shape here and being trained by force ghosts might be a questionable success. Luke is the last gamble. If Yoda wanted he could physically stop Luke, but he'd lose him anyways. It could push Luke to the dark side by letting his friends die and Yoda being the reason he couldn't try to save them. There was no bartering position left to Yoda.
I disagree that Luke was "lucky" at the ending. "In my experience, there is no such thing as luck."
Vader was trying to turn Luke to the Dark Side. That’s the only reason why Luke survived this fight.
@@ryanspencerlauderdale687
Agreed. Vader was toying with him.
Im thinking about, what is Vader/Anakin thinking, after he revealed to Luke, that he ist his fahter?
I mean, he spends month searching for him, looking forward to meet him, hoping to unite with him. And the big moment he hopes his son is joinging him, Luke says "Noooo" and starts crying.
If my son would do that, I would be deeply hurt. And you talked about Anakin waking up in Vader. So, dont you think he may be sad or dissapointed or shoked too?
Its like "You are the worst father ever!", right in your face - and you know its true!
This isn't the first time Anakin didn't get what he wanted when he thought he was acting in good faith: He went to back to Tattooine to search for my mom to save her, only for her to die in his arms. He was put on the Jedi council because he had thought his hard work and patience over the years had finally paid off, only for him to be told he wasn't being granted the rank of Master and that the only reason he was on the council member was because of his relationship with Palpatine. He turned to the Dark Side, killing almost all of his Jedi allies and the remaining enemies of the Republic in order to protect Padme from her impeding death, only for her to not want to be with him anymore and she dies soon afterwards.
After everything he's been through, it's probably safe to say he's pretty much used to it and will press on if he has to, even though it always stings and hurts nevertheless.
@@SpFlash1523 I honestly don't remember my thoughts from 6 years ago, but yeah, his life is pretty fucked :/
No wonder he made so many bad choices...
ESB will always be the best. Not the deepest plot, but the characters, dialogue and music made it perfect. It's the most artistic. The Oz Yoda is superior puppertry and feels more real than CGI even it doesn't look that real. The CGI looks real but feels fake.
That Han Solo “Then I’ll see you in hell” line is so Harrison Ford. It reminds me why he got the part of Indiana Jones in Raiders of the Lost Ark, which came out a year after this movie. That jerk leader with a heart of gold is a typecast role that Harrison has used to build his entire career off of.
I've always thought it was funny that it was your FFVIII video that got me introduced to your channel.
But yeah, the extended universe (Heir to the Empire) made this entry even better, at least for me. Easily one of my favorite movies of all time.
Arch no offense but I'm wondering why you thought putting the Emperor's Scream into Luke when he was falling at the end was a good addition? It comes off as comical, and obviously sounds nothing like Luke.
Great commentary! I saw The Empire Strikes Back in 1980 when I was six years old and though I enjoyed this film it also messed me up. It showed me that the hero's journey comes with a price and the good guys don't always win. I left the theater stunned. Empire didn't go on become my favorite Star Wars film until I got a little older. Yes! Empire also has the pinnacle of all lightsaber duels.
Okay, Arche, I have to ask, what do you mean his adoptive parents that Luke thought were his real parents? He called them uncle and aunt, Owen mentioned his father, so...color me a little confused.
Hamill is an amazing voice actor. Have you ever heard the radio versions of ep 4 and 5? In my opinion theyre very good and hamills skill shines in them. 6 is okay but they replaced hamill at that point i believe.
I gotta applaud the phenomenal work of the Jim Henson company for their work with the Yoda puppet. Especially given how limited the technology they had to work with at the time.
Fast forward twenty years or so and they go on to create Rygel XVI and Pilot.
It makes me wonder what they could have done with Yoda, if they had had the same technology that they had when doing Farscape.
The best Star Wars movie, bar none. Only Revenge of the Sith can come close to its quality.
Another thing about the 'do/do not, there is no try', is that it completely contradicts Obi-Wans quote from Ep. 3; 'Only a sith deals in absolutes'.
Obi wans quote came second so technically it contradicts. The quote itself was an absolute anyway.
I echo your praise of Mark Hamill having to act primarily with a puppet. In the movie Return to Oz, the child actor Fairuza Balk had to act the entire film with the same scenario, only she had about 5 different puppets in her scenes!
Wow I love this rumination. I can't wait for your views on VI. Between V and VI, I still can't decide which is my favorite to this day. Great job as always.
Edit: I actually had to rewatch the part where you talk about Luke Vs. Vader, cause holy crap your enthusiasm O_o
19:50...Actually, no. Child, not children. Vader didn't know Luke had a sister, until Return of the Jedi.
I'm enjoying these analyses very much.
Any Extended Universe works anybody can recommend ?
I watched all the main movies (except Ep.7), but never had much interest in Star Wars, but Arch is kindling that interest.
+John Doe A few basics come to mind immediately; the Thrawn trilogy, the Jedi Academy trilogy, the Corellian trilogy, the Black Fleet Crisis, the Rogue Squadron books, and the Thrawn Duology. Other works include KOTOR 1 and 2, the Dark Empire comics (just 1 and 2, not 3), and the entire Jedi Knight series of games.
+Lorerunner
Thanks !
✌🏻️… ✊🏻
+Lorerunner
By the way, any particular order ?
I ask because I don't want to be in a position where someone is new to Star Wars and watches the movies in episodic order instead of release order & gets Empire spoiled.
+John Doe Everything I listed happens after Return of the Jedi, in the relative order I listed them as, except for KOTOR 1 and 2 which has nothing to do with the rest.
You enjoyed the Black Fleet Crisis? I thought the story as a whole wasn't bad but the idiot balls of the characters got rather tiresome.
So much digression, so little time.
Great work.
23:49-24:05 Hayden Christensen himself said he said Anakin and Vader are the same person.
I just recently discovered your series videos analyzing Star Wars and Star Trek movies. I have actual enjoyed these very much. I discovered your videos series by accident. I was actually in the process of watching a series of UA-cam videos of a motion comics based on "Heir to the Empire" when your Ruminaton of the Thrawn Trilogy appeared my recommended compiled list. So I watched it, I was very impressed and so I went forward watching all of you Star Wars and Star Trek Ruminations.
Now having said that. I would absolutely love to get your views and analysis on a novel called "Star Wars: Splinter of the Mind's Eye" by Alan Dean Foster. WHY? Because it is unique in three ways, first it is the first ever Expanded Universe novel, secondly it was the ONLY Star Wars novel that George Lucas went to a writer and personally request for him to write it, and thirdly it is the ONLY Star Wars novel that was ever written with a true realistic aspiration of being actually made into a movie. In 1977 prior to the first theatrical release of Star Wars, George Lucas asked Alan Dean Foster to write that novel as a low budget sequel to Star Wars if it should fail at the box office. This way George Lucas could throw a make-shift sequel together to re-coop some of the money he would've lost by reusing the same props over again in the low budget sequel. This is also why Han Solo isn't in the novel, because actor Harrison Ford wan't under contract and if Star Wars failed he wouldn't have been available for a sequel. It is for this reason George Lucas specifically asked Alan Dean Foster to leave Han Solo out of the sequel story.
These facts alone would make your analysis of Star Wars: Splinter of the Minds Eye interesting, not to mention your analysis of contrasting it against Empire Strikes Back (Kinda like the Sequel we got versus the sequel we would've got if the first Star Wars had been a box office failure.which in of itself would be an interesting side by side comparison
I think both Vader and Anakin wanted to see Luke. Kinda like a split identity deal. Where like you said, after failing an attempt at suicide Anakin just “went to sleep”, I think Luke woke Anakin up. So while the identity “Vader” was looking for Luke so offer the Galaxy to him and rule by his side, I think that was driven subconsciously by Anakin and the spark of hope in seeing his son. I thin while Anakin wanting you to just see him, I think he also wanted to find him to and motivate him to defeat him. To finally end his suffering and to end the suffering his fall to darkness caused the whole Galaxy.
Kind of a “Look at what I became. Vader(I) may be offering you the Galaxy but it will only lead to ruin. And suffering. Your suffering, your friends’ suffering, and the Galaxy’s suffering... and the Jedi will forever suffer for it too. If you are my son, you are far more powerful than I, and you may be able to do what I could not. Remain strong and steadfast where I crumbled, and foolishly and selfishly caused everyone in the Galaxy to suffer.”
It was a 60/40 Anakin/Vader.
I think, I admit I'm not 100% sure, but I think when Luke and Dart Vader were fighting in that last scene that neither of them knew that they are related.
Vesna Lukic
What?
Anakin knew Luke was his son. That's why he said...."I am your father."
I loved the twist in the game Wing Commander IV - the price of freedom with Admiral Tolwyn - awesomely played by Malcom McDowell
46:15 "Because he had no choice."
Paraphrased from Kreia
Dagobah has a Force nexus point similar to the one found on Tatooine in swtor it where the force can interact with the physical world to help character find their path
Whenever you said 'Lando' I thought it came out as 'Londo', so I kept thinking Centauri on Cloud City. =)
My only nitpicks with the SE was right after the duel. First off, Luke's 'ahhh!' as he's falling. The other was originally Vader growled 'Bring my shuttle', but in the SE he keeps talking. I thought his original, curt answer felt more...dangerous?
I felt the same reveal twist in KoTOR, though I've heard more than a few people say that the clues were there. =)
I remember when Yoda said his 'There is another...' line and I wondered who was he talking about?? At this point I don't think there was much in terms of hints that Leia was Luke's sister.
Another great Rumination!
seeing Rogue One tomorrow and am hearing mostly good things :) Empire was always my fav and I'm not even a big SW fan!
Did you ever wonder how the Millennium Falcon manages to travel from the Hoth system to the Bespin system without a working hyperdrive? Or how Luke's one-seat short-range X-wing fighter now conveniently has one so he can break off from the Rebel forces and travel independently to Dagobah (without even telling anyone he'll be gone for some time?) Or how after blindly crash landing and completely sinking into a swamp on a planet with no technological resources, Luke and R2 manage to restore the waterlogged ship to flight-ready condition with only the tools they brought along? Did you ever wonder if the screenwriters asked themselves these questions? The Star Wars universe never concerns itself with the realism of finite resources and energy costs unless it becomes necessary to the plot. Otherwise, the ships never need refueling and the blasters never need reloading. The above points are just plot holes that were skipped over out of necessity, but still feels like sloppy storytelling if you analyze it for even a moment.
In terms topic of trilogies, you should do Mad Max
Would you ever do a ruminations on Harry Potter? Either the books or the movies?
1:20:45
Vader has been hurt dozens of time.
He can take it.
Not sure if you'll catch this on such an old video, and maybe you did notice it... Listening to you expand on how Vader never knew his kids were born, there is a very specific shot in episode 3 of Padme during her funeral showing the baby bump still there, presumably to throw off everyone that her kids were never born. Took me a few views to even realize what they were doing and why. Makes even more sense now knowing Vader had no idea about him (and Leia too I guess).
It makes perfect sense too; they had to ensure Palpatine (if nothing else) didn't know about any children, hence ensuring Padme died 'prior to giving birth'.
I really like the yoda section, great video thanks Arch
31:00 In my head canon Ozzel was a Rebel sabatour.
When you mentioned good examples of a plot "reveal twist" I instantly thought of Bioshock.
Great video man! This is my favorite of the trilogy, maybe of all time.
Why did it require detective work for Vader to figure out who Luke was when he actually saw him on the Death Star? Unlike Obi-Wan, Luke had no way to "cloak" himself, do his Force presence should have been obvious,.
Monkismo
In-universe, Luke might have had force potential but he never showed any prowess with it while on the Death Star, so Vader might have ignored that. As well as the fact that Obi Wan overshadowed the untrained Luke and Vader honed in on Obi-Wan to the point of obsession.
out of universe? they hadn't come up with the force presence yet. Likely the original reason Vader could sense Obi-Wan was because he was his master and so he knew him and what he 'felt' like rather well.
vader had never felt lukes presense before. you need to be within a certain range to actually sense it. the death star battle was the first time the two had ever encountered one another
I am planning to watch the Star Wars movies with my parents but I don't know if I should show them the original trilogy first or the prequels. Any suggestions ?
I've always showed new people them in the order 4 5 1 2 3 6 myself
Production order is always better. For everything.
Vega Goose
Actually that's not a bad order.
i want to do the same thing with my nephew before star wars ep 7 comes out and yeah i am going in production order as well.
Vega Goose That's such a cruel order. Right after the wonderful cliffhanger you make them watch 3 movies that will provide no answers for them. Especially 1 and 2.
I could have swear his name is L-ando and not Londo
You've done well my young Archen.
Sigh, I keep coming back to the fact that The Prequels would have worked so much better if Annakin had already been in his late teens when Obi Wan met him, had already been an up & coming pilot in the Republic Navy, in spite of his youth (along with his brother, Owen).....but far too obsessed with Order & Peace....at any cost. The Vader we see in Rogue One & A New Hope isn't some otherwise innocent soul who gets tricked into serving Palpatine, IMHO.
Wow, it's almost as if the prequels ruined the mystique of the Old Republic/Clone Wars, destroyed the mythos of Darth Vader, did an extremely poor job of convincingly explaining his fall from grace, and were a bad idea all around, because some things are best left to the imagination...
Did you make your Phantom Menace video private? 😞
Oh daymn what is the end-credit music?
my favourite star wars movie. great movie from start to finish
Nice rumination. But could you do one on Knights of Badassdom? It's not great, but the premise is entertaining.
If I had the force I would basically become darth sidious
Yet again, I disagree with the 'physically there = automatically better' notion. Puppet Yoda lacks a lot of the subtlety and minor lifelike details of CGI Yoda. There's advantages to both, and I am sick of hearing the same stupid line over and over.
Also, there's no discernible difference between the Boba Fett voices. He's excessively overhyped anyway.
if i may critique your critique, I feel like a lot of the weight you feel for these scenes comes more from nostalgia than you are likely willing to admit.
Luke knew that they were his aunt and uncle. Uncle owen and aunt Beru.
It's funny that you mentioned Boba Fett being considered the greatest bounty hunter of all time, when there was a video posted on the Star Wars channel just a couple of days ago about the top 10 bounty hunters of the galaxy - and they put Cad Bane at #1! I mean, what the hell? Who even compares Cad Bane to Boba Fett?
Also, I hope you will forgive me for having to nitpick here, but I think the weakest part of the movie is the whole Falcon sequence between when they get off Hoth and when they get to Cloud City. Yes, I know it's interesting that the hyperdrive is broken, and yes there are some great moments in that sequence, but still, am I supposed to buy that they get to Cloud City on sublight engines? Wouldn't that take, I don't know, years? To me that just breaks the immersion, but maybe I'm just picky that way that way. And you can add the space worm to that impression too.
+MBF78 Most ships have a backup hyperdrive engine that is significantly worse than the main engine. It's very likely that the Millenium Falcon had a second engine, but it would have been a class 12 hyperdrive, which would take 24 times as long to get anywhere. Since the Falcon only had limited food aboard, that explains the urgency of finding a local system.
So why didn't they use that one to get away from the imperial forces?
Lore reason: Hyperspace vectors are easy to trace, and calculating new routes takes a lot of processing power and time. Han could have rested easy in the knowledge that the Falcon's modified hyperdrive could outrun anything in the Imperial Fleet, and thus that this tracing would not matter. Without his main engine, the Imps would have had plenty of time to set up ambushes at their projected arrival points. He had to wait until he could jump unobserved (though Boba did see his jump and was able to trace him to Bespin and get an Imperial force their before them).
The real reason: there was no science adviser involved in the production of Empire as far as I am aware- it is very likely that nobody involved thought about the ridiculous amount of time a sublight trip between systems would entail.
Lore reason = plot convenience reason.
Maybe, but that reasoning is reflected in the ex-canon EU.
You didn't discuss the end where Vader reached out to Luke. And Luke calls out to Ben.
Why do you think of yourself as Creative?
Help support Lorerunner so he can afford heating and not need to wear robes to keep warm :(
I disagree on John Williams. He peaked with Empire and became more and more "safe" later in his career. Less modern, more traditional. This soundtrack is his best work, which makes it's abysmal mastering so frustrating.
Say what you will about The Last Jedi.... but ghost Yoda being a puppet is so much better than prequel Yoda... not only in appearance but the characterization as well.
I would love to hear a rumination of The Force Unleashed, the first game not the sequal (which I, sorry to all the fans of it, did not like one bit) and hear your thoughts on that take on the origins of the rebel alliance.
I don't get it, whats "the most beautiful ship in the world'?
it was looking at the falcon in its state on hoth
Why, Vader's flagship, the SSD Executor of course! There can only be one most beautiful ship in the world. ;)
X-Wing of course
I always thought the Gage transport from the TOR universe was the best.
Never heard of Laarndo
Damn. This is the best ESB analysis I've seen (and I've listened to a lot)! .... and says a lot about how TLJ messed up.
1:26:33
What would he turn out like?
Exactly the same as that murderous monster turned out be.
LAndo, not LOndo..
Wait, he isn't talking about Mollari? KAPPA
That's how Arch pronounces his 'A's
55:40 Last Jedi.
25:34
The most beautiful ship ? But "Eclipse" is not in the film.
= )
I firmly prefer Prequel Yoda; Empire Yoda looks awful IMO, with the sole exception of when he's on Luke's back.
Some of the expanded universe is good, but so much of it is so incredibly bad. I'm happy they wiped it out. Time to start over.
I liked irvines robocop 2 :p
Londo
Still cant believe I just sit here and listen to a guy talking for 90 min. Ok the others were longer. ;D
Dude it's Lando not Londo! I thought you made up some other character! Londo? It drives me nuts, this isn't the first character name you butcher....still love your ruminating
K boomer
@@RA-VEN8 k boomer
(Emperor voice) do it
Great video. Only one criticism : your hood cover your eyes and it's very distracting.
I would be more worried about all the people he killed with all those casual Jedi gestures.
Archengeia's Ruminations> Red Letter Media's Reviews
I wish I could share in your enthusiasm of this movie but I'll be honest- I hate Empire. It is easily the worst movie of the series, at least in my opinion. The only part I like about it is the duel on Cloud City. Well that and the music. That said, I cannot wait for your Jedi rumination. Easily my favorite of the three.
tomclancy008 Why?
In general? Weak romance, a largely wooden performance from Harrison Ford, a lack of depth or pathos to Princess Leia, who has been reduced to little more than a serial complainer, significant issues with the duel in the cave, a lack of interest in Luke's character arc, the rather boring battle of hoth, the lack of tension in the cloud city escape, that moronic space worm, nearly every scene with 3P-0, the fact that Luke has next to no drive to learn more about his father from a man (yoda) who clearly knew him, do I really need to keep going?
tomclancy008 Weak romance, wooden performance, boring battle of Hoth... Whatever you say.
Yep, whatever I say.
+tomclancy008 Just for my personal enjoyment (it's fine if you dislike this film, I personally enjoy it the most of the Star Wars films): Can you tell me in contrast what the other 5 films do better given the same flaws you point out in Empire?
Everyone is a dark Jedi with you... I got news for you, the expanded universe doesn't count anymore and there is no such thing as a dark Jedi anymore. Plus George Lucas never intended for anyone to think that any of the characters in the films were dark Jedi. Maul and Palpatine are Sith, Luke is a Jedi. Simple as that. Unless they say the term 'dark jedi' in any of the new movies, shows, comic books, or novels it isn't a real thing in Star Wars.
In DISNEY'S Star Wars. In George Lucas's Star Wars they are definitely present. You can keep the Porges that the corporate overlords have decreed, the rest of us will keep the dark Jedi that the creator of Star Wars deemed canon.
you are a little too overdramatic
WarThug13
That's what makes him great
an hour and a half of this shit,,,,, really???
Benjamin Jacob
Fuck yeah. That's why Arch is awesome and insightful
What do you have to provide to the discussion?
Oh no free content.....