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Modern Diezel Amp Shootout - Herbert mk II vs Hagen
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2023
- I promised you guys more (Diezel) amp shootouts and then I got distracted with a few Vintage 30s… so here is the Diezel Hagen vs the Herbert mk II.
Signal chain:
I'm using a Gibson SG Raw Power tuned to drop C# with a Seymour Duncan Black Winter pickup in the bridge and a Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates in the neck (used only for cleans here).
The guitar is running into a Deadweald Duality DX which when on is running in TS style mode with gain at 0 and the EQ and Volume at around 1 o'clock. From there the signal goes into an Egnater SS4 Amp Switcher and into the amps. the active amp is routed back into the SS and from there into a Two Notes Torpedo Live with a Vintage 30/SM57 IR loaded.
Timestamps:
00.26 Introduction
01:10 Herbert Channel 1 (Clean)
01:39 Hagen Channel 1 (Clean)
02:07 Toggling Channels 1 (Clean)
02:28 Herbert Channel 2 (-) (Light Crunch)
02:59 Hagen Channel 2 (Light Crunch)
03:28 Toggling Herbert Ch. 2 (-) / Hagen Ch. 2
04:15 Herbert Channel 2 (-) Max. Gain (Heavy Crunch)
04:26 Hagen Channel 2 Max. Gain (Heavy Crunch)
05:03 Toggling Herbert Ch. 2 (-) / Hagen Ch. 2 Max. Gain
05:21 Herbert Channel 2 (-) Max. Gain (Heavy Crunch) & Boost
05:43 Hagen Channel 2 Max. Gain (Heavy Crunch) & Boost
06:05 Toggling Herbert Ch. 2 (-) / Hagen Ch. 2 Max. Gain & Boost
06:40 Herbert Channel 2 (+) (High Gain)
07:03 Hagen Channel 3 (High Gain)
07:26 Toggling Herbert Ch. 2 (+) / Hagen Ch. 3
07:53 Herbert Channel 2 (+) & Boost
08:11 Hagen Channel 3 & Boost
08:26 Toggling Herbert Ch. 2 (+) / Hagen Ch. 3 & Boost
08:59 Herbert Channel 3 (High Gain)
09:19 Hagen Channel 4 (High Gain)
09:39 Toggling Herbert Ch. 3 / Hagen Ch. 4
10:16 Herbert Channel 3 & Boost
10:26 Hagen Channel 4 & Boost
10:50 Herbert Channel 3 & Boost
11:04 Toggling Herbert Ch. 3 / Hagen Ch. 4 & Boost
11:47 Final Thoughs
I’m so happy there’s a high quality Hagen vs Herbert video up on UA-cam now. Thanks John!!!
Channel 3 on the Herbert and 4 on the Hagen sounded so similar to me.
On my speakers the Hagen had an insane amount of low end and Herbert had a nice throaty mid range. I ended up surprising myself and liking the Herbert a bit more but both are great.
Thank you very much! I too was surprised as I expected the Herbert to dominate the Hagen but to be honest, I find it very hard to pick a favourite after comparing them like this.
what a channel, aaaaahhhhhhhh. Hagen Channel 2 max gain so good
Hagen clean channel all the way. That’s the important comparison right there!
It's always interesting to see one's preconceptions being challenged - I rewound the clean part twice because I expected the Hagen to somehow stand out more.
I think both amps maybe serve a slightly different position in a mix - but overall it would be the Hagen for me here as well.
Cheers for another great shootout!
Thanks, man! Yeah, the Hagen is underrated
Awesome video! I’ve been on the brink of getting a Hagen but I am still undecided. Between these two my winners are:
Clean: Hagen
Crunch: Hagen
Mega: nose to nose, but probably Herbert Ch2+… tough!
Lead: undecided, depends on the use case
If I only played metal, Herbert is a no brainer. It is so direct and precise.
Hagen seems to be a better allrounder especially in the medium to medium-high gain fields.
I'm happy you got that from the video because that's almost exactly how I felt about them playing them
Great video, thanks! The differences are well captured BUT much more apparent, if you play them yourself. For anybody interested in buying one of these: Play them before buying. With a matching cab! I had the Herb, it's mindblowing, bass is unreal, too much for me tbh. Never really liked boosts with any Diezel. These amps make high end guitars shine, because they don't cover up what you put in tonewise as other amps do, despite all the gain. Have a VHX now, very happy! Can't go wrong with any Diezel, once you understand their qualities..
Word!
Great shootout John! I own exactly the same amps and agree with your opinion. Sometimes I consider selling one, but I couldn´t decide which one, so both are still here ;-) I also prefere the cleans on the Hagen a lot more and for me it´s warmer and not that sterile sounding than the Herbert is. As you mentioned as well, Herbert is more modern and tight sounding and there´s also s bit difference in the mids. Sometimes I feel, that the Hagen lacks a bit in the lower mids and doesn´t cut throught that good. I only use the 4th channel of the Hagen for leads and this works good for me. But you´re right, for ryhythm it doesn´t work that good. Nevertheless both are good amps and love them.
Keep on doing such great shootouts!
Thanks, mate! Always appreciate your feedback and yes. Keep them both!
@@TheOtherJohnBrowne I will ;-)
I have a Herbert MK 3 and a Hagen and I agree about Hagen having a better clean channel. It has more character.
Love the Herbert a lot 🎉
Herbie is the GOAT to me
Only orange owners know why the screws are not screwed all the way 😂
Great video John !
I still have to ask you privately about the Dmoll 😅
Lol yep. Laughed at that. I hate doing speaker swaps in my PPC412.
Or anyone else with a rear load cab and extra speakers 🤌
Yeah... It's difficult to make a final decision for me. Both amps sound great. The thing is... If you listen to one first and get used to that sound, when it changes, you might like what you hear 1st better. That's a bit tricky with these A/B tests.
The Hagen seems to have that extended hiegh end though.. When you play chords and stuff, especially when strumming through the high strings... But the Herbert has that midrange throat punch.
It could be sacrilege, but I wonder how the Hagen would sound with a graphic or parametric EQ in the loop, just pushing the throaty frequencies just a tad. I'm not sure if you could do the inverse with the Herbert... But I don't have the amps and have no idea of the range of their controls.. I'm just thinking from the amps set the way that they are... It juat seems from my limited perspective that the Herbert would have a little more difficult coaxing out the high end brilliance than the Haven pushing some throatiness with an external eq... But who knows! 😂
Maybe I'm just biased because I find the ahgen to be one of the most beautiful amps ever...
But either way, I keep wanting one to sound a little more like the other depending on the part and how my ears are adjusting to each clip change.
Mate, you're the perfect guy to answer me this: what are your absolute favorite speakers to use with your Peavey 5150? Thank you in advance.
I'm a basic bitch. I love the V30, man. I also like the EVH Greenbacks with the 5150 though
What is the name of (I'm assuming, your) song that plays quietly during the thoughts at the end (if you've got it out anywhere)? Great vid
Thanks. The song is called "put to sleep" and is by my band back in the day called Destined for Nothing.
You can listen to it here:
m.soundcloud.com/destined-for-nothing
thank you for posting. great video as usual. watched it at least 3 times already. For me they aren't that similar, generally Herbert felt much more refined, more like produced record, hagen raw, saturated, more into old Marshall direction, I'm pretty sure Hagen can easily compete with JCM800, Friedman BE100 Suhr PT100 for all that Marshall-ish type of sounds..
I very much suspect that hagen is more sensitive to different pickups, guitars, boosters, because to my experience, Herbert has a lot of it's own refined sonic signature, I didn't like any tube screamers in a front of it(with exception of Precision Drive with very transparent settings) somehow all boosters make it sound smaller squished and cheap. Herbert simply doest like boosters, he is good as it is.. Similar phenomenon with guitars, If I plug into rectifier or mark, some guitars sound good, some sound better, but different... but with Herbert they are more or less the same, but in good way it I do like that Herbert's sonic imprint on sound, some might say that Herbert makes everything sound more similar than other amps do.
you totally right hagen ch1 is a bit more spanky, and alive, Herbert is more like a huge bell. both good, I would love to have gain pot on Ch1 Herbert, but obviously there isn't any free space.
I liked Hagen 2ch here a bit more than Herbert's 2-. I always felt that Herbert's ch2- sounds like something holing it back, imagine being stuck in car traffic in nice Porsche, it can do more
, but doesn't. Although I had some nice results using bit of mid cut and ch2-. doesn't sound like old Marshall, but certainly has nice crunch to it.
Herbert's ch2 + or Ch3 Hagen I think equally good, just depends what you want, raw or refined, I think Herbert is win for me here, just because I like that Herbert sonic signature so much
same goes for CH3 Herbert and CH4 Hagen. Herbert's ch3 seem a bit more versatile for either rhythm of lead playing, whereas Hagen's ch4 is more pure lead channel. I understand your dislikes for CH4, but I'm sure it's really nice for solos, which was intended here.
one thing that turned me off: hagen, has that spiky treble, like it run out of treble headroom and spikes or distorts, I often heard this spike in some Marshalls and ENGL(amps that I generally dislike), Herbert is cleaner bigger, like there is no limits at all. Big and mighty
I think the main reason Hagen is less popular than VH4, Herbert of D-moll is not the sound or features but the look, people always choose with their eyes not ears. and unfortunately hagen's layout is odd and a bit confusing: knobs kind of fit in between each other, signs(gain, volume, treble etc) are not straight in-line like VH4 but rounded, which is silly and hard to read, black panel+white knobs also very unusual. looks very messy and unrefined, Herbert has much more cleaner layout and it just one of the most beautiful amps as far as looks goes, VH4 is odd, but in a cool way: all knobs are in line with each other, sings are straight and easy to read. I'm sure great many people, when saw Hagen for a first time were a bit confused, despite it being very logical. Hagen would receive much more success if all knobs were grouped in straight lines like Marshall JVM410.
Chanel 1 Chanel 3 Presence Deep
Chanel 2 Chanel 4 Volume 1 Vol 2
this layout is more familiar to all guitarists, there is no confusion and no knobs being in between each other.
as for me, I probably keep two Herberts, instead of flipping one Herbert for Hagen. When time comes to buy another rig, I'll get Diezel 412 box and Hagen or VH4, whatever comes at better deal and easier to obtain. probably VH4 just because I'm such Metallica fan..
Wow man... what a comment! First of all, thanks for taking your time and sharing this message!
I agree with almost everything you wrote. The Hagen does have something Marshally about it in its high mids. I myself have often thought that. I also agree with your comments on why the Hagen might not be as popular. Marketing might also have something to do with it. The VH4 and Herbert both occupy massive spaces tonally and in peoples perceptions. Maybe there just wasn't enough space in between for another super popular amp. Either way, I love the Hagen!
@@TheOtherJohnBrowne yeah, there isn't anything wrong with hagen, I just feel sorry that this amp is somehow less popular... your right it's mostly perception of people. how about short video, just toggling between Vh4, Hagen, Herbert, D-Moll?
I've been interested in Diezel amps. Sometimes this shit is confusing. The Paul seems to be more my style but the Hagen sure looks rad.
The Hagen is SUPER picky with everything. I have 8 amps, soon to be 9, whenever Rick gets the tubes for the MTL I ordered (2 are Diezels, Hagen and Herbert). Out of the amps I own, the Hagen is the most stubborn. I went through all 4 of my cabs ( V Boutique, Orange PPC412, Splawn 412, and Emperor 412), and various speakers. I found that the Hagen needed a brighter cab (Splawn out of my collection). Next was speaker pairing. I tried 5 different Eminence models, 2 Weber models, and 5 Celestion models. I ended up with Creamback 75s on the top and Weber Silverwolf on the bottom. Perfect combo. Lastly, passive pickups are the way to go. The only actives I'll use with the Hagen, once in a blue moon, is the Fishman Dev Set.
If I were to do my band days all over again and had the money to buy the shit I wanted like I do now, that would be my rig 100%.
Nice quality. I love German engineering .
The difference between the microphone change between the Intro and the Final Thoughts was bigger than the difference between the amps.
I was wondering if anyone would notice 😂
@@TheOtherJohnBrowne Only cuz I did it myself in my last video 😅
They both sound great, but to me the Herbert just sounds a little meaner and more focused. Herbert wins for my taste, even though its pretty close.
Yes. The Herbert sounds a bit more tidy to me. I think we mean the same thin when you say focused
Hmm i like the herbert a lot in this shootout. It's a bit more mid foward and makes me think it would work better in a full band mix. We have a hagen in our rehearsal space and it's been an OK amp for me but nothing spectacular. There's this fuzziness inherently present which i like but at times it does sound a bit dark/polished and does not cut through as much.
Keep in mind.... the eq ranges are different... different tapers etc...
Turn the precense and treble down 😂
Very cool video. Herbert seems a little tighter for me? But they are very similiar.
That's exactly how I perceived them too
Both sound great but i like the Herbert just a tad more
Herbert is the GOAT
Am I correct in generalizing that Hagen is a more modern ish version of VH4?
Well, I would not object to that
Deizel themselves said it's basically a vh4-ii
Hagen Channel 3 voicing gives me ENGL vibes. Gain structure seems typical Diezel though.
I need to compare it to an Engl
I have a mkIII herb dean, and I swear Im on the fence about selling every 3 days or so. 😂
LOL. What would you get in its place?
@@TheOtherJohnBrowne Tough one, I've had so many now. I haven't had a KSR yet, always wanted to try one. Passed on a Gemini couple years ago when I was on the different rectifier & savage 120 kick. Did the mark iv and triple crown 100. I haven't had a badlander yet though. Leaning toward KSR, maybe even try the ARES. I've only ever had 1 other 50 watt head, which was a PETERS CHIMAIRA single channel head. Never seen another one since I sold that one. But that ARES sounds pretty damn big for a 50. Oh yeah, and I like the VH2 tones also. Something about this mkiii that just isn't exactly right in the mids for me. In fact I think the mkii probably sounds better.
I prefer the herbert, hagen feels more aggressive
Looks like the Herbert is the only Diezel amp with a somewhat ergonomic front panel design. Both the Hagen and the VH-4 are textbook examples of how not to design a panel. Either the developers never attended any classes on basic ergonomics - or they just decided repeatedly to sacrifice practical usability for visuals.
Do you hear how unoriginal you are? Jesus. I think the layouts are awesome! It's like finally someone does something unique with a front panel... and you offended over it to the point you say it's textbook way to not do something you have no experience doing anyway yourself 😂😂 I bet you love vanilla ice cream in a paper cup too. Anything else is textbook not how to flavor ice cream eh? 😂😂😂😂