Sense Pleasures Make You An Addict
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
- De-valuation of pleasure obtainable through the senses is the necessary basis for the Right view.
"After giving a progressive talk to the householder Anathapindika on giving, on moral habit, on rebirth, the Lord then explained the peril, the futility, the depravity of sensuality, and the advantage on renouncing sensual pleasures.
When the Lord knew that the mind of the householder Anathapindika was ready, malleable, devoid of hindrances, uplifted, pleased, then he explained to him that teaching on Dhamma which the awakened ones have themselves discovered: suffering, the origin of suffering, the cessation of suffering, the way leading out suffering.
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Bhante, thanks for the talk. It is only trough seeing the valueless of sensuality can one truly gain Right restraint.
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SN46.6 Kuṇḍaliya
“But, Master Gotama, what things, when developed and cultivated, fulfil true knowledge and liberation?”
“The seven factors of enlightenment, Kuṇḍaliya, when developed and cultivated, fulfil true knowledge and liberation.”
“But, Master Gotama, what things, when developed and cultivated, fulfil the seven factors of enlightenment?”
“The four establishments of mindfulness, Kuṇḍaliya, when developed and cultivated, fulfil the seven factors of enlightenment.”
“But, Master Gotama, what things, when developed and cultivated, fulfil the four establishments of mindfulness?”
“The three kinds of good conduct, Kuṇḍaliya, when developed and cultivated, fulfil the four establishments of mindfulness.”
“But, Master Gotama, what things, when developed and cultivated, fulfil the three kinds of good conduct?”
“ *Restraint of the sense faculties* , Kuṇḍaliya, when developed and cultivated, fulfils the three kinds of good conduct.
suttacentral.net/sn46.6/en/bodhi
Standing to one side, the god Subrahmā addressed the Buddha in verse:
“This mind is always anxious,
this mind is always stressed
about stresses that haven’t arisen
and those that have.
If there is a state free of anxiety,
please answer my question.”
“Not without understanding and austerity,
not without restraining the sense faculties,
not without letting go of everything,
do I see safety for living creatures.”
That is what the Buddha said. … The god vanished right there.
Subrahmā Sutta SN 2:17 - With Subrahmā
trans. by Bhikkhu Sujato
The racketeering analogy blew my mind. I have often looked into chemical methods to reduce the sexual desire as it causes great pain. I never thought it was possible through meditation.
Thank you bhante for your way of explaining the right view in a clear way that makes sense for laymen.
🙏🏼brilliant discussion bhante👌🏼
Just as a sotāpanna is extremely rare as a matter of course, so too a non-celibate sotāpanna becomes even more rarified and exotic to the point of special notation(mentioning in the suttas).
If sense restraint isn’t thoroughly employed I am not sure how any lasting progress could be made.
It seems a clearer delineation needs to be made between the understanding of sammādiṭṭhi(right-view) by a sotāpanna: the attenuation of kāmarāga(sensual-passion) by a sakadagami and the uprooting of kāmarāga by an anāgāmi. We’re dealing in orders-of-magnitude here.
A sotāpanna has received the recipe. A sakadagami has collected the ingredients and mixed them up. An anāgāmi is in the process cooking and an arahanto is cooling down on the windowsill.
See:
Majjhimanikāya #73 Mahāvacchasutta where the Buddha describes a sotāpanna as enjoying sense pleasures(no distinction is made between the actual act-of indulgence or the mere fleeting fantasy of indulgence - implying there is NO difference). No lasting mental attenuation has been made just yet even if they are celibate and physically restrained.
See also:
Aṅguttaranikāya 8.21 Paṭhamauggasutta
where the lay disciple Ugga describes becoming an anāgāmi and declaring his teenage wives to be sisters. 🙃
The journey from puthujjana to sekha to asekha is beautifully describe in the Suttanipāta 4.15 Attadaṇḍsutta 🙏🏼
SN 35.28
Adittapariyaya Sutta: The Fire Sermon
translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu
I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying in Gaya, at Gaya Head, with 1,000 monks. There he addressed the monks:
"Monks, the All is aflame. What All is aflame? The eye is aflame. Forms are aflame. Consciousness at the eye is aflame. Contact at the eye is aflame. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye - experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain - that too is aflame. Aflame with what? Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion. Aflame, I tell you, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs.
"The ear is aflame. Sounds are aflame...
"The nose is aflame. Aromas are aflame...
"The tongue is aflame. Flavors are aflame...
"The body is aflame. Tactile sensations are aflame...
"The intellect is aflame. Ideas are aflame. Consciousness at the intellect is aflame. Contact at the intellect is aflame. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the intellect - experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain - that too is aflame. Aflame with what? Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion. Aflame, I say, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs.
"Seeing thus, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with the eye, disenchanted with forms, disenchanted with consciousness at the eye, disenchanted with contact at the eye. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye, experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain: With that, too, he grows disenchanted.
"He grows disenchanted with the ear...
"He grows disenchanted with the nose...
"He grows disenchanted with the tongue...
"He grows disenchanted with the body...
"He grows disenchanted with the intellect, disenchanted with ideas, disenchanted with consciousness at the intellect, disenchanted with contact at the intellect. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the intellect, experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain: He grows disenchanted with that too. Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion, he is fully released. With full release, there is the knowledge, 'Fully released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'"
That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, the monks delighted at his words. And while this explanation was being given, the hearts of the 1,000 monks, through no clinging (not being sustained), were fully released from fermentation/effluents.
So true, Sadu Sadu Sadu.
Questioning the value of sensuality is the must at the beginning. If the evaluation of sensuality conclude that, they have no value because it is just a moment of pleasure, sorrow or neutral and we cannot hold it forever, then further research will start. Devalue sensuality the first, follow up towards the right view. Should there is any value for an instant impermanence?
10:25 Perfect bhramachari
Sadhu! Sadhu! Sadhu! Thank you Bhante! This was life-changing.
We humans seem to have become even MORE addicted to sense desires. We have become dopamine addicts.
Such a novel interesting way to view the self. This should be taught at school.
From my experience as a teacher I don’t see many children or other teachers being interested and if not interested and critical that could lead to their harm….however if one person took it on board 🤔…how to tell where there is more danger or less unless one is developed….monks and nuns cannot teach unless requested…
*AN1.308*
_… When you have wrong view, unskillful qualities arise and skillful qualities decline._
*AN1.318*
_…Wrong view is the most blameworthy thing of all._
*AN1.309*
_… When you have right view, skillful qualities arise and unskillful qualities decline._
With Metta
& may you be encouraged to practice in accordance with the Dhamma
🙏🙏🙏
Thank you again Bhante for these videos on sensuality since I think its the biggest obstacle for us lay practitioners.
I have some questions:
Minute 22:52. You say pleasure is poisonous. But what can I do if I experience pleasure by eating a salad or simply drinking water or sleeping on a bed? Pleasure came to me without seeking it.
Another question. I still feel its not clear how to take this theory to a practical level. What is clear is that sense restraint is a MUST. Meaning, everytime your mind says "lets derive pleasure from that object" you should say no. But in this video you mention that "sense restraint is not enough, after sense restraint you need to see the unattractiveness, but this isnt enough either".
So could you please clarify what to do after sense restraint, with some practical steps?
Final question: How not to fall prey of aversion to objects when sense restraining? Buddha said aversion and craving to be both sides of the same coin.
Thank you VERY much.
These are good questions. Although perhaps addressed in other talks, I too would welcome such guidance.
I believe that what Bhante is saying is that there is nothing wrong with experiencing pleasure, but there is a fault in valuing it (delighting in it, entertaining it, wanting more of it, etc.). Same with pain - experiencing pain is fine but wanting to get rid of it is not.
In case you don't get an answer from the Ajahn, I've been following the talks closely so just from what I've understood here the pleasure that is being talked about when it comes to restraint is not about not feeling a perception as agreeable, the senses find certain things naturally agreeable, being satiated, feeling a cooling breeze,etc.
The danger in the pleasure Ajahn is talking about is the active pursuit of gratification through the body based on greed, aversion or delusion.
If you have a look on the channel there is a playlist with talks for beginners, I think you will find all the answers in more detail there.
King Squiddi I agree with you King. Questions arise on the margin, such as basic human needs such as hunger and thirst. There is, of course, the talk on mindfulness of eating on this topic. Also on the website is the essay about feelings. I really enjoy and am inspired by all these talks. Sometimes piecing it all together is a bit challenging, so I just keep tuning in. Oftentimes my uncertainty is cleared up in another talk.
ua-cam.com/play/PLUPMn2PfEqIwZkwF6OQc0UJ5bfVIoM3Xi.html
🙏
true words quick relief but discomfort comes back
I think there are good honest people in society who drink in moderation. They keep the first four precepts, really necessary to live as a human in a human society.
@@pannavaddhi6573 Well, during years my mom, after retirement, used to have every day a glass of beer and some nuts, just before lunch, because she read somewhere it was good for health. Everyday day, at home, sitting with my dad, watching TV. Never drunk, never more than one beer, everyday for years. And there is one case in the Suttas, one of the Buddha's relatives, who attained liberation at death and he had never undertaken the fifth precept. So, my personal experience and the Suttas, back that possibility. 🙏
The problem with even one alcoholic drink a day is that it is a seed. It can be a seed in the mind of young ones around you, who see this and perceive it to be okay but little do you know, that young one emulating that behavior might have the seed of alcoholism. So why even practice such behavior to begin with?
@@aliciamontero7061 , do you mean Paṭhamasaraṇānisakka Sutta SN 55.24 ? (Available online at "Access to Insight" or "Sutta Central")
If so, you may have overlooked this very important element, the last paragraph:
" If these great sal trees could understand what was well said and poorly said, I'd declare them to be stream-enterers. Why can't this apply to Sarakāni? Mahānāma, Sarakāni the Sakyan UNDERTOOK THE TRAINING AT THE TIME OF HIS DEATH." (=Words of the Buddha)
Sarakāni accepted the Precepts shortly before his death.
For the summarised transcription:
t.me/HillsideHermitage/82
If you know something is bad , and you still do it inspite of guilt ( almost as if you want to mask the guilt using the pleasure from the bad habit ) then what should you do ? Does this mean you have not yet gotten rid of the value of the sense pleasure . Does that mean that you need to understand more about how it's a contradiction or that it's bad to remove the values ?
You will need to endure the pains of restraint more.
One cannot get rid of the value of the sense pleasures until sense restraint has been thoroughly developed FIRST. That's why restraining is hard - you are going against the pressure of sensuality, while still valuing it.
@@HillsideHermitage is there nothing to ease this or to make this easier ? I am saying this after trying to abstain and failing to do so. Or is it that i am just impatient .
Desire for enlightenment is required for achieving the end of desire by reaching enlightenment, is that correct? Basically my desire for enlightenment is what takes me there and upon reaching it the desire is no longer necessary and thus I will be truly free from desire. Is that how to understand the simile of the raft taking us to the far shore? Thank you for sharing your wisdom Bhante.
That's correct. Desire for enlightenment can result in Right effort that will eventually uproot all desire whatsoever.
Bhante if one keeps the 8 precepts, does one still need to understand the gradual talks of generosity, virtue and heaven? I assume the role of those is that one practices restraint for the sake of merits
In such case it is not necessary to understand them (those gradual talks were for people that were not established in the precepts), but having said that, it will do no harm to be clear about them either.
Thanks Bhante.
How to deal with the guilt then?
Experience it without resistance…not trying to get rid of it through distraction or another sensory pleasure until it passes by itself.
I think it is possible to have addiction to mental pleasures. Is that less dangerous than sensual pleasure addiction?? 🙄🙄🧐🧐
"He grows disenchanted with the intellect, disenchanted with ideas, disenchanted with consciousness at the intellect, disenchanted with contact at the intellect. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the intellect, experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain: He grows disenchanted with that too. Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion, he is fully released. With full release, there is the knowledge, 'Fully released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'"
@@SBCBears could you tell me the source of your quote, please? Which Sutta? 🙏
@@aliciamontero7061 The source is right at the top of this comment section posted by Pannya vaddhi SN 35.28 :)
@@bayee2169 Thanks! 🙏
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