What do Americans believe about God?
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
- Back in 2022 @ligonier and @LifeWayVideos partnered to poll Americans to find out what they believe about God, salvation, ethics, and the Bible. The data is very interesting, as is the way Ligonier presented it.
In this broadcast, Warren reviews the data, the claims and weighs in with his own take.
#Theology #Christian #religion
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Amen Warren! Let’s know our Bible well, love Christ even better, and go serve those who need to be set free.
Good to see your countenance raised these days Warren. Despite all you have been through and are still going through, your passion for the Lord and your defense of His goodness and loving kindness remains strong. You got a little feisty there at the end, but I love the passion you have when it comes to defending God’s character. Also, I look forward to the new website!
As an aside- I started watching your video on the health stuff with Leighton and I was giggling because I went on a health journey like 6 yrs ago and you guys were talking about stuff I learned back then, so it was funny to me to have the 2 worlds of theology and health collide with you both talking on a livestream together about it. 😊 I have fallen off the rails a bit with my eating habits and exercise routines, so your discussion helped to motivate me to get back to it! God bless!
Warren, what you said at the last about "God’s got this" has been my life in the last 3 years. So, many challenges, so many miracles.
Finally, he has awoken
You have already had a great impact
The only intro I never skip! lol
As I listen to countless (way too many..) theological podcasts bemoaning the state of the church i.e. scandals by the dozens every week it seems, I always think of the Lord Jesus stating very firmly to His disciples that "He will build His church and the GATES OF HELL will not prevail against it." So, as far as I'm concerned I'm trusting that His church is doing just fine. The man-made church on the other hand, well, that's a different story. He's tearing down the Big Eva right before our eyes and I PRAISE GOD for it.
Amen!! The remnant is ready.
The faithful know the ending, God wants us involved. We are not robots we are His children
👊🏼
@eugenejoseph7076 I just think back on all the WWII movies I've seen where the gates swoop down and strafe enemy troops, or when the armies came in with gates in their hands swinging them wildly over their heads at the enemy, LOL. Or, maybe that's now what that verse means...?
As soon as I see that a certain vaguely defined Christian group who are judging other Christians is just Calvinists, I feel the immediate relief of dismissing them as such.
Cult indeed. Especially the anti-protestant exclusivity.
I don't understand that last line.
@@ravissary79 Fair point, it's a new thought I've had that I've not articulated before.
I mean that Calvinists are most intolerant of differing views within the Protestant wing of Christianity. Everything must measure up to their standard of all the reformed things or else the Christians who disagree aren't Christian enough in their minds. Complete elitism about their beliefs, similar to Catholicism, which is incompatible with the principle that no one denomination owns and determines the whole of Christianity. Protestantism is about the humility of learning what the Bible says--without assuming you already know--and letting go of tradition if it happens to be incompatible with Scripture. Calvinism doesn't allow this. So much is presupposed that those who, say, don't believe that God damns babies, will be accused of missing a "fundamental truth."
In other words, Calvinists are the least Protestant of the Protestants. Apologia Church spends more time condemning other evangelicals than they do Catholics.
Well, when you call them out on being a Calvinist, they'll just hit you with "I'm not a Calvinist!".
Right after they just got done lecturing you that man is born hating God and that God has to overwrite our will otherwise no one would ever believe the Gospel, or something else that sounds distinctly like parts T.U.L.I.P... But *totally* not a Calvinist!
Warren glad to hear your on carnivore! It saved my life. I got Lymes and encephalitis (which also developed into meningitis). I was very very very sick for almost 3 years. I did carnivore for 9 months and literally came back from the brink of death.
I need you like I need air to breathe, Only the Living, Loving, Moving, Relational God gives mankind the Breath of Life not a dead static god?
We love you, too, WMack
1:09:12 . Yes.
Don't apologize for this..💛💛💛
God's character doesn't change. That's it.
I believe you. But where’s is the scripture for that for reference. @idolkiller ?
@@emilybrereton702
You might try searching "..I change not" in your bible program
It's been a long road in walking away from Calvinism. I am honestly shocked on how many doctrinal positions I had to rethink. You should look into Reformed Covenant Theology vs. New Covenant Theology. They treat the Decalogue as a means for sanctification because they have an incorrect view of the New Covenant. It's just as eye opening as the material you're putting out. Thanks, God bless!
1:09:09 - DUDE you are gonna get attacked SOOOO BAD FOR THIS!!! Brace yourself! No matter what comes through that gate, you will stand your ground!
53:22 Let's grant that the idea that David said he was born a sinner, he still didn't say that all humanity was born sinners.
Warren,
A few months ago I did carnivore for 20 days and lost 21 pounds. I t was the most miserable 20 days of my life. I hope you can keep it going! I'm just now craving steak again.
@mikemcclellan7026
I'm sorry you had a bad experience. I've heard some folks love it and others are miserable. My past low carb diets would often be a chore, so I can somewhat relate.
However this go round i did a lot of front end research to see how i could improve that experience and am super motivated and feeling great.
I've included electrolytes (strawberry lemonade flavor), replaced coffee and cream with bulletproof coffee then just green tea, I eat in a 17/7 window from noon to 7pm, and eat mostly beef, butter and eggs but also incorporate chicken, fish and pork a couple times a week to break things up. I've also spent a lot of time looking into carnivore recipes to mix up the flavors and textures. I'm also using Heart & Soil Supplements and drinking a lot of water.
Yesterday was day 10 and I was down 9.6 lbs.
This week I'm increasing my steps. Next week I incorporate a daily 5 minute row, incrementally extending that time every week, and in a few weeks incorporating weights.
I don't plan to change things up too much until Jan 1, where I'll go more for maintaining and getting a more shredded look.
@@IdolKiller I pray it works for you. I've struggled a lot over the years with my weight. I list 105 pounds via keto and just got tired of missing out on pizza. Smh. Maybe I'll get back on the wagon with you. BTW, I love your content! I'm still on the fence about open theism. My brother and I talk about it often. I found you by way of Leighton Flowers. Keep up the good work.
@mikemcclellan7026 when I did the Slow Carb diet I gave myself a Saturday cheat day. I'd go hog wild and get so sick of sugar and carbs it'd carry me through the week. The insulin spike also prevented my weightloss from hitting a plateau. Join me and be strict Sunday through Friday and give yourself a Saturday. 3 steps forward and 1 step back is still 2 steps forward.
BTW, thanks and welcome to the channel!
@IdolKiller i get home on Sunday from a men's retreat with my church, I'll join you!
@@mikemcclellan7026 YES!
The reason the .....ISM is alive and well is because it is considered a version of the Gospel and not called out for being a cult. So yes....call it what it is!
It will be interesting to see the poll info over the next 4 years. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a reversal and then a return of the data. I base that on the “Recovering Fundamentalist” movement. I see many of them lean toward Calvinistic philosophy.
@@StevePs5289 I suspect you're correct, though I hope not.
That poll is notably weird. The sample size isnt big enough to tease all these purported complicated trends it claims to track.
I commented on a video by wise disciple a couple years back. He tried to make the claim that the worrying trends showed all this evil infiltration in the church, but he was blaming this on... gasp... so called heresies!!! But the things Ligonier cited were essentially just basic known doctrinal distinctives of other denominations that activity participate in ETS.
Well that and LGBTQ stuff, but thats something the groups they condemn also condemn.... so its all just a red herring.
The issue with this theology, ie open theism, isn't that God can change His mind and is free to do so. Its that you think He doesn't know the future. He can know the future without causing His free creatures to do that which they normally wouldn't. He exists outside of the constraints of time and space. That's why prophecy is a thing. I actually agree with you on just about everything else as far as I can tell. No psa, no neo-gnostic Augustinianism, etc. He does have a plan for history and can accomplish that without hampering man's free will.
God bless.
@@Joseph221b God knows the future perfectly.
Hey, I can't find the merchandise website 😭 In addition to the t-shirt, I'd like to buy "Dead men follow dead men" artwork.
@@pontificusmaximus6716 we are relaunching the website and will have old AND new merch!
Warren you give Augustine a bad wrap by so persistently associating him with the Calvinists. They had some points of contact but Augustine was by no means reformed.
@@senttosiberia Calvinism is an evolution of Augustinian thought, not a one to one comparison.
@@IdolKillerIn the book, The Foundations of Augustinian Calvinism, the connection of Calvin to Augustine is pretty strong.
Augustine reverted into Manichaeism and Stoic Determinism after 412AD.
@@jonathandavid9720 the cross pollination between neo platonic, stoic and Christian thought was not limited to Augustine … making Christianity consistent with mainstream philosophy of the time was a general project not unlike modern Christian’s trying to harmonize their faith with “the science”.
Just to say that we can observe this or that idea from Greek or Roman philosophy in this or that church author isn’t proving much. For instance the concept of the logos itself is a platonic concept John uses to communicate a truth but it doesn’t mean John went platonic in his old age.
@@IdolKiller yeah I know that’s what you think (and not without merit!) … I was mostly trying to be funny … like don’t call nazis swine … it’s disrespectful to the pigs!!
In all seriousness though I think you overplay the Augustine connection. Augustine denies free will (true) but not human responsibility (I know that’s a contradiction but have you read any Augustine? He can be a bit wild!)
For instance on infant baptism. Augustine maintains that a child must be baptized to be saved (“oh no, it mustn’t be true” cry the “reformed” lovers of Augustine! “That would be works based palageanisn!!”) but at the same time who does and doesn’t get baptized is pre-ordained by God (“yes yes!” Cry the reformed lovers of Augustine “you see! You see!!! He’s one of us! After all!”).
I think one of the other major not so good legacies of Augustine was exactly this … unlike modern “reformed” theology Augustine (like all of the church forever and everywhere) did not have a problem with needing to do something to be saved (gasp! Not works based salvation oh no!) but rather that the doing was predetermined therefore not to your credit but to the credit of God. He (Augustine) is the first I can find to have a completely unique understanding of “works” as a category. As opposed to the Pauline and earlier church categories of “works of the law” and “works of Faith.”
He resolved it differently than the Calvinists would eventually but it’s another part of his confusing legacy.
Maybe I’m trying too hard to salvage Augustine. Anyway I’d like to see you do a video on the GOOD legacy of Augustine.
I know he’s got major faults but like who doesn’t?
I take God's statements that he does not change to mean that his character does not change i.e. he is always good, just, loving, etc. He doesn't become a drunk that turns into a completely different person nor was he worse before and then he can reform and become a better person. He also doesn't go back on his promises like people do. His good, holy character does not change, so we can depend on him. This doesn't mean he cannot respond meaningfully to people nor that he cannot, for example, create the world where he had not before, or become incarnate when he had not been before or die and rise from the dead like he had not before.
Hey, IK.
Would you mind doing a video on Christian Nationalism? I find that many Calvinists are being pushed towards this. It is concerning me greatly, and many of my otherwise kind Calvinist friends have been spouting outright, unironic, extreme Natzi rhetoric.
Sorry to bother you - I know this is off topic. Thank you and God bless.
Lol @ “Oh yes God hates babies, we win”
I don't trust anyone who is wrong on salvation. I also don't trust anyone who is wrong on discipleship. Unrepentant false teachers should be treated as unbelievers.
A third of evangelicals? I was passively listening up to that point, and you saying that reminded me of Revelation. Didn't it say a third of the Moon, the population, the water, and other things get corrupted? (Corrupted as in unalived, destroyed, tainted, or altered in some way. It's a generalization of the events based on the pouring out of the bowls, if I am recalling correctly.)
One thing ive noticed about greek philosophical thought is when pual debated them.
Hed take a piece of there view show its correct then rebuke all that was wrong.
Platonists
I was seeing a debate between transubstantiation and the symbollic view.
Either a symbol or litteral.
And in this debate the person said a plontonist would say yes to both.
Its both a symbol and litteral.
Christ is litterally there cuase the symbol represents him.
One thing ive noticed is that just becuase pual might have thrown cheese crumb to a mouse(plato)
Doesnt mean we in automatic thought say he was completley right throw the whole block
Greek philosophical thought when used must be parsed through the bible not the other way around.
The bible is the ultimate thought. And philosophy must be parced through that. Not the other way
At least thats what ive noticed.
A person seeing symbollic thought and physicallity as being tied together.
Doesnt mean you jump head first into the full view.
A duck swimming on a cess pool. Is still aduck. Its still good.
But that doesnt mean we swim in the cess pool
Does God change?
Yes. The incarnation was a change that God did in time.
You know....a broken clock also fits the description of unchanging....and also a faxe and 2 hands....😅🤣😂
I’ve been averaging a pound a day as well. I know it’s not water weight because I’m also drinking about a gallon and a half of water a day.
It easily could be water, because you retain water because of other things, salts, electrolytes, etc. When you push pure water it purges that and you can release more of it.
@@ravissary79 fair point.
59:33 Be fair to yourself Warren, atonement studies are linked into Calvinism.
Love your channel
Learned alot from you and soteriology101
And c.s. lewis writings.
I will say i disagree with the stance about psa. Not being in early church there were fathers that did teach it.
I would say that having some advances in theology isnt nessesarily a bad thing.
And there are scriptures that support it.
But i dont think we need calvinism or the like or even a belief in o.g. sin to believe christ took the punishment
Not that he became a sinner.(theres bad defense)
But i guess thats where im with william lane craig.
But anyways apreciate your channel keep destroying sacred cows.
Oh ya. Question do u think you could cover any of the good augustine thought.
It seems like he was a early sola scriptura advocate. I agree with him that we shouldnt be staunch non violent pacifists there is a time for war.
I shudder to think if we carried the pacifist view in the face of hitler.
That thought terrifies me.
Him wanting to see science progress
Willing to see metaphore in scripture to account for changes in understanding.
There seems to be some general good views from him
Do you think you could cover it.
He seems to be a theological chaotic and i honestly see him as a broken individual strugling with his baggage and it effected his theology
But the reason i worry about pulling out psa.
Or even sa. Is that the other theories allows for a works based theology
Which the orthodox from the midle ages to the catholics seemed all to ready to embrace.
I think you need to be careful of basing your theology on your fears or your presuppositions.
The fact that the church in the Middle Ages largely fell into a human-merit based salvation does not mean that the reaction to that is correct.
@senttosiberia you r right it doesn't mean automatically that the atonment model was incomplete
What it showed was that its state allowed people to twist christs work.
If you look all the anctient churches that holds christus Victor or moral influence, hold works based on theology.
Modern protestants provisionistist obviously don't
But let's look at some ideas.
Both atonments are correct they are true.
But are they complete
Moral influence simple shows us to live by christs example. To lay are lives down.
Christus Victor tells us that christ beat darkness.
But both have historically been used to say see now we cam follow faithfully
Wat psa says is that he bore our inequity
It's been badly articulated saying that christ was the largest sinner. Etc but
It bassically says he stood in our place and took the punishment for what we did.
Now there are scripture that says he became sin for us. But as he can't sin that has to hold a different meaning.
The nice thing about protestant is we can always reform. But there are church fathers that used substitionary language.
Remember the earliest fathers were not part of a institutional church.
Despite what catholics claim
Like I said I see no reason to toss psa. Simply cuase Calvin thought of it.
A broken clock is right twice
You know.
I don't hold tulip or origional sin I'm a proponent of free will. But I see no issue with the idea that christ stood in our place. And drank the cup of wrath.
(These are in scripture)
Remember the reformers while emerged in Augustin as they were catholics
Noticed the gospel suppression.
They were people of there time.
Notice a issue.
And now giants like leighton and Warren stand upon them to reform there mistakes.
That's why I think all these pieces of the atonment is pieces. Of a truth
I very much appreciate your clarity and understanding of God existence in the present and His ability to respond... I would love to converse further on this. However, I think your placing Ligonier Ministries as the totality of Calvinism, or ideas like "Calvinists believe that God hates babies" is very far from reality. You are building a strawman. The Doctrines of Grace would be a clear and excellent understanding of Scripture if God lived outside of time or concurrently in the past, present, and future. The great misunderstanding comes out of the definition of time. If time was the creation of "before and after" then it is logical to conclude God must be outside of that, but if time begins when "In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth" and before that, He did things... then the existence of before and after was not created in the Bible but rather the measurement of before and after that is called Time "the first day".
Biblically we are told to judge anyone who calls themself a Christian. To SACRIFICE your baby to make your life better is not only an unbiblical it is an abomination. It's time to check you heart to make to sure you are saved. I love all people but I will not love them into hell by hiding the TRUTH.
@michellethalman2803 yes, abortion is murder. We know this. My point was people often affirm it without realizing that.
Warren, I've shared your videos and been behind you up to this point. Can a Christian not know WHO is the CREATOR? Even before I was saved, I knew that Christians spoke LOUDLY against the murder of unborn babies? Ecumenical is like when Paul went to Athens and addressed the philosophers in Acts 17. There are not MANY truths there in ONE truth. No saved person believes in child sacrifice as the pagans did and you know what I mean.
Amazingly enough, there are people who actually believe that the future is open, even though the Bible teaches the exact opposite!!!
@@lawrencestanley8989 the Bible knows nothing of your Platonism.
@@IdolKiller Dude, I don't have a clue what Platonism is. I just read the Bible and believe it. What do you do?
@lawrencestanley8989 so when God said He repented and changed His mind... over two dozen times in Scripture... you just believe it? Then why are you here arguing against it?
@@IdolKiller So in Ephesians 1:11 where it is declared that God "effects all things according to the counsel of His will, ” and this “all things,” according to verse 10 includes all things in the heavens and all things on the earth, and according to Colossians 1:16, this “all things” both in the heavens and on earth includes all things “visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities,” so then it isn't just physical things, but also actions, circumstances, and even the very thoughts and wills of men (Cf. Psalm 105:25, Revelation 17:17), including the evil actions of men (Cf. 2 Samuel 12:11-12), and that this passage literally makes God the ultimate cause of all things in heaven and on earth, you ignore it because you believe that God is altogether like you?
@@IdolKiller You think that God changes when He declares that "I the LORD do not change?" (Cf. Malachi 3:6, James 1:17, Numbers 23:19, 1 Samuel 15:29, etc...) Apparently there are passages in scripture that do not mean what your presuppositions need them to mean, and you and your ilk are teaching lies.
Warren, I agree with you for the most part.
However, I do not think that Calvinism is a cult. It can be cult-like. You see this with the hyper-Calvinists.
I would be more inclined to say that Calvinism, as a rule, is off the mark, and therefore misleading.
Many of us grew up in that form of generalized Calvinism. It was the water we drank.
The attributes of Calvin’s system are quite similar to cult practices. Warren always emphasizes the love of Calvinists versus the hatred of the system..
God bless👊🏼
@atyt11 Agreed. My point is that the majority of Calvinists are not cultish. Some are, to be sure. But most (many clergy included) don't carry through their faith to it's logical conclusion.
@@jamesbarksdale978 agreed. 👍👍👊👊 I saw this list once, See if this sounds like calvinism, a cult or both.
1) Special/secret/hidden knowledge only the "chosen" can have.
2) Divine Illumination of leadership (God revealed this to me and me alone)
3) Deniers simply do not have the capacity to understand the revelation (they weren't "chosen").
4) Good faith refutations are hand waved away by claiming they are just "misrepresenting the doctrine", even refutations that use the exact same words the cult uses to explain their false teachings.
5) Refusal to read any other sources but those approved by the leadership
6) Slow indoctrination into difficult "knowledge" so as not to "create barriers"
7) Those who leave the group (even those who put in 30+ years) "never really understood" or were never a "true follower". 8) Quoting men more often for proof of claims, or constantly referring to literature written by other adherents, instead of God's word
9) Leaving the group causes the members to avoid or shun you.
10) Limited questioning the doctrine. If you ask the wrong questions, you are told to stop asking or repent of your unbelief
11) Constant need for approval from others in the group, working to prove you are "in"
12) Small, elect group that most of the world is completely excluded from.
13) Leadership are charismatic and charming, and friendly.
14) Leadership answers the questions you should have asked, not the questions you asked
15) Group calls any clear contradictions in doctrine a "mystery" or tells you that you are making God in your own image if you point them out or you are simply too dumb to understand God's mind
16) Teach members to doubt their own reason, allowing you to institute your own reality upon scriptures.
17) Confidently state their own assertions as God's word.
@@atyt11 Having grown up in a church that was deemed a Cult, I agree with this assessment. I would say Calvinism has cult-like practices for sure.
Do you often change your preferred "scripture" aka version in order to prove your point? You are your own final authority. Sad
@waberens what are you talking about? NASB, ESV, KJV it doesn't matter... Calvinism is false
@@IdolKiller
He's sad now 🥺
Actually it sounds like Warren studies scripture, looks to and has a real relationship with Christ to lead him into truth. Any “preferred scripture” coming from the Bible is going to point you to Christ for teaching you wisdom and knowledge.
That’s funny, Calvinism has invented new words, changed the meaning of already established and peer approved words, all for the purpose of proping up their man made systematic,
Very similar to what the LGBTQIA’s community is also doing with language to support their also man made systematic.
✌️