Starship Lore : Maquis Raider - Ship of non-Sense

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  • Опубліковано 11 січ 2025

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  • @philips.5563
    @philips.5563 6 років тому +96

    So, something Starfleet officers do seems to be sloppy and uncharacteristic of competent, military personnel. Weird.

    • @mikemalo47
      @mikemalo47 6 років тому +5

      in this era star fleet is at best a PARA-MILITRY organization and despite being academy trained the level of competence varies wildly.
      Kirk would have kicked all their asses .

    • @1nONLY_DRock
      @1nONLY_DRock 6 років тому +6

      I got the sensation that a century of peace has made Starfleet very sloppy. From episodes like Peak Performance to what you see on TNG, DS9 and Voyager on how even security teams fought, you could just get the sense that these people have forgotten how to fight from the tactical to the strategic level. And their attitude showed too. Not only they forgot how to fight but when fighting is necessary. It's a failure on all levels of Starfleet in the 24th century, from doctrine to the culture.

    • @mikemalo47
      @mikemalo47 6 років тому +7

      This also reflects the mind set of the writers , it is clear as day , not one of them served a day in any branch of the military. Utter cluelessness .
      The worst and most glaring example to me was the DS9 ep were Nog lost his leg....a ground force of nothing but officers ( WTF )

    • @codyraugh6599
      @codyraugh6599 6 років тому +4

      @@mikemalo47 Starfleet calls everyone in Starfleet officers. Rather 2 better examples are, 1) Nog when playing security for the Engineering team on the second Cardassian station, they ALL aimed their guns at eachother, they played with leathal weapons set at high settings, and refused to even look at anywhere but at eachother despite being on watch for trained scary assassins.
      2) the Dominion war death count 900 million civies, and 100 million Starfleet officers,...with everything we see, either the Dominion stripped every conquered world of all life...or the Federation was packing its ships full of civilians and laughing as terrified mothers watch the vessel and their children very turned to atoms around them. And considering that the Conquered Federation worlds still have populations and entire major Trek races aren't on the verge of extinction, only one conclusion can be made.
      The Federation is used to throwing civilians at problems. And that is horrific, the Federation fails at the first rule of maintaining order in a state, protecting your population from outside threats.

    • @mikemalo47
      @mikemalo47 6 років тому +1

      Goes back to the writing staff, these buffoons haven't even read a history book , let alone served a day in any branch of the military , the utter cluelessness is staggering.

  • @Rezkeshdadesh
    @Rezkeshdadesh 6 років тому +63

    All it takes to make any ship a Maquis Raider is a minor refit.

    • @DrewLSsix
      @DrewLSsix 6 років тому +2

      Rezzy All it takes is for the Maquis to use a ship for raiding. A raider is in this case a ship being used for raiding operations.

  • @MaxAmmoNeeded
    @MaxAmmoNeeded 6 років тому +56

    FYI a Toyota hilux is a toyata hilux. Stick a weapon in the back and it’s called a technical.repurposed vehicles take on a new name.

    • @namyun2743
      @namyun2743 6 років тому +5

      Isn't the term "Technical" a catch-all term used for "repurposed" vehicles?

    • @tmseh
      @tmseh 6 років тому +5

      @@namyun2743 Yes.

    • @tommytwotacos8106
      @tommytwotacos8106 5 років тому +6

      This very much. The Maquis raider is the 24th century's equivalent of a 4-Runner with recoilless rifle bolted to the bed and an extra steel plate or two inserted in the doors.

  • @andersmaidment
    @andersmaidment 6 років тому +6

    I will admit, when I was a teenager and Voyager came out it confused the hell out of me that a little Maquis ship that was shown in TNG and DS9 to have only a 2 man cockpit suddenly had dozens of people on it.

  • @TheExpatpom
    @TheExpatpom 6 років тому +7

    Here's a thought. 'Maquis raider' could be a description rather than a class, in the same way there was no standard 17th century pirate ship but a lookout might shout 'pirate ship' just so everyone's on the same page knowing they can do all that crap with counting the masts and arguing over the style of rigging to determine if it's a barque or a schooner or what later on. A similar thing would apply with Maquis ships that aren't necessarily armed and equipped per their original designers' specs but are positively identified as being currently Maquis owned and used for guerrilla operations. Which isn't to say that ST continuity started getting pretty sloppy around the time the Maquis were written in, because it did. But even if writers had been given a show bible and thrashed with barbed wire every time they contradicted it there might still have been a loosely defined ship referred to generally as a Maquis raider.

    • @SineN0mine3
      @SineN0mine3 4 роки тому +1

      This makes a lot of sense, if the marquis are using a whole range of different ships it seems like a waste of time to try to properly identify each and every one you encounter. Instead you just call them all raiders/fighters and specify what weapons and crew it can hold as needed. Since they're mostly modified version of other races ships it seems illogical to assume they would know the Marquis' ship's loadouts until they're within sensor range anyway.

  • @kamrudjacobson4438
    @kamrudjacobson4438 6 років тому +37

    Wait, didnt the Maquis steal a shipment of industrial replicators in DS9? So maybe they CAN produce their own ships after that?

    • @LoreReloaded
      @LoreReloaded  6 років тому +12

      Good point

    • @threshermaw6042
      @threshermaw6042 6 років тому +3

      Ship construction I would figure requires more than industrial replicators. Sure they could replicate some parts, but not all. There's also the fact that Dilithium (What they use in warp cores) can't be replicated. Now it might be acquirable, but constructing ships isn't something you can just do in your basement.

    • @codyraugh6599
      @codyraugh6599 6 років тому

      @@threshermaw6042 self replicating mines and generally half the, non food stuff, replicator uses on screen in Trek. The Federation had by TNG discovered the secret of infinite mass and energy. Just hook the replicator to the engine.

    • @kamrudjacobson4438
      @kamrudjacobson4438 6 років тому +2

      @@threshermaw6042 Right but they have several planets, can replicate machinery to create shipyards, and can outright create major parts. They are not working out of their basements. Arguably they have access to more resources and know how than planets that we see fielding their own starships in the shows

    • @namelessking8905
      @namelessking8905 6 років тому +1

      @@LoreReloaded - It is a condor class courier. They serve the Federation all over the Alpha and Beta quadrants. You just never see them in the show. The Federation used upscaled versions of it with the Voyager saucer section to build cheap warships for the Dominion war. Spacedock already has a short video on the Yeager class and he mentions the condor class.

  • @Zakiriel
    @Zakiriel 6 років тому +50

    Lore Reloaded, Captain of the USS Gelato.

    • @namyun2743
      @namyun2743 6 років тому

      @Zakriel Shouldn't that be "USS Gelato Machine"

    • @TheCosta5000
      @TheCosta5000 6 років тому +1

      Mmm gelato

  • @WaltMartin
    @WaltMartin 6 років тому +2

    The Maquis, are, by all intents and purposes... Pirates. Hence the writers may have used information from the Amarillo Design Bureau for a jumping off point. We know this has occurred before. In the old Star Fleet Battles game, the Orion Pirates were their own individual faction, and used weapons lay-outs as you describe here... Whatever they could find, even to include Cloaking Devices in some cases.

    • @francesconicoletti2547
      @francesconicoletti2547 6 років тому

      Shadoe Kat I agree. If you think of DS9 as the Spanish Main in Spaacce !! Most pirate ships were small skiffs that could hide in the Grand Banks and other shallow waters that large ships could not approach them. Marquis could be thought of by the writers the same way without being explicit about it.

  • @FrostyThundertrod
    @FrostyThundertrod 6 років тому +7

    I would have thought that they would have just “Kit Massed” marquees fighter and raiders so that they would all look like that where welded together from starfleet surplus yards

  • @tommytwotacos8106
    @tommytwotacos8106 5 років тому +1

    I had always assumed they were bought from federation or non-alligned worlds, probably in parts or using other surreptitious means to disguise supplying"terrorists" with the weapons they're using to kill Cardassians. It's like how Germany constructed and tested its early Panzer engines and chasis by calling them tractors and insisting they were for industrial applications.

  • @grumpyguardsman6161
    @grumpyguardsman6161 6 років тому +17

    calling the ships "maquis raiders" does make some sense. IRL the US military refers to up-gunned pickups, suvs, cars etc as Technicals. There is great variation in these vehicles, as the only criteria is a formerly civilian vehicle that has had weapons bolted onto it., not much different from the maquis raiders in concept. While not being a class of military vehicle per say, its much easier to report 20 techinicals, than trying to figure out make and model which is non essential information anyways. Starfleet referring to the myriad of up-gunned civilian ships under a catchall term makes sense, as the ships have been modified past the original design and class to make referring to the class not as useful either. Not being nitpicky btw, totally agree that these ships have serious inconsistencies even when they are supposed to be the same model.

    • @grumpyguardsman6161
      @grumpyguardsman6161 6 років тому

      @Maintenance Renegade So the name is kinda weird but the reason they are called technicals is that in Somalia, where the were firs popularized, non-government organizations (red cross etc) used to hire local Somalis to protect them with "technical assistance grants". Not the most sensible name, but it stuck

    • @ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681
      @ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681 6 років тому

      @Maintenance Renegade You know, sometimes racism actually exists. Thats when people judge individuals as part of group, not as individuals.
      Have you for example considered, that if the practice did not work, the name would not have stuck in the first place? So we already know that some somali are reliable enough.
      In short, you made a mistake, because you generalise too much. Racism is not just a moral concept, its a failure to use logic.

    • @ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681
      @ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681 6 років тому

      @Maintenance Renegade I expect nothing better from you than smokescreen tactics. Its very honest from you to admit that you are not going to have an honest discussion in the first place, but you are still going to avoid the issue out of fear, or possibly just ignorance.
      Not that I mind if you want to publicly show cowardice, and i dont mind matching wits with you. I already know more about Somalia than you do, and im smarter than you so I dont mind a little game.
      The problem is, that if you start by declaring a losing move, its obvious you are incapable of understanding the difference in the first place, and I will win by doing nothing while you furiously keep losing on your own, all the while explaining how losing is smart, and avoiding issues is brave. And thats not fun, or a challenge, so i wish you wont waste either of our time. I just suggest that you consider, that logically the issue is not, and cannot be about Somalia, its about your actions, and it will remain so whether you are right or wrong.
      No matter what the facts about Somalia, they do not affect the the logic of your behaviour or reasoning, unless you allow your reasoning to be affected through your emotions.
      That is why talking about somalia is an instant defeat.
      You admit that your reasoning processes are not sound.

    • @Krahazik
      @Krahazik 4 роки тому +1

      Basically, the name isn't a reference to the specific class of vessel, but a combination of the organization's name and the function the put it to use. A Maquise owned ship used in raids or as a fighter craft. And can be implied that any given craft used by them has been modified beyond the original technical specifications for the craft.

  • @threshermaw6042
    @threshermaw6042 6 років тому +20

    I'm wondering why didn't they have the Maquis just use older types of federation ships? It'd be pretty telling if they got mothballed NXs, Mirandas, or other older federation ships. There'd be no way they could get the modern ships, they don't have the resources for such endeavors (except in the episode where Tom Riker takes the Defiant for a joy ride), however it would mean that they were an actual threat to the stability of Federation/Cardassian relations, rather than the nuisances they came off as.

    • @dragonknightleader1
      @dragonknightleader1 6 років тому

      Good idea. They'd also have to reuse models instead of making new ones.

    • @hyrinshratu
      @hyrinshratu 6 років тому +2

      I always took it as a subtle sign that Starfleet, or at least elements of it, were secretly supplying the Maquis, reporting the ships as 'stolen' and letting Eddington and the others have them.

    • @jonathanstevey1748
      @jonathanstevey1748 6 років тому

      Wasn't there a episode in tng that showed that the junk yards were very well regulated and it would be hard to steal something as large as a star ship... Sure they stole parts but not an entire ship.

    • @threshermaw6042
      @threshermaw6042 6 років тому +1

      @@jonathanstevey1748 In that very same episode the Zakdorn quartermaster had several vulcan ships stolen from that shipyard, stealing a whole ship isn't too far outside the realm of thought.
      @hyrinshratu Some elements of starfleet were confirmed to be helping the Maquis, it's shown in multiple episodes of TNG and DS9 that officers from lower ranks all the way up to an admiral sympathized with the Maquis.
      @Alex Reusing models was something that Star Trek did very, very often. You think the Maquis would be a perfect excuse to use the older federation ship models. Except the Oberth, because no one wants that ship.

    • @jonathanstevey1748
      @jonathanstevey1748 6 років тому

      @@threshermaw6042 I thought they piece mailed those ships, just stealing parts of ships to build a 3 complete ships. I could be wrong but I thought they stole a deflector in the episode not the whole ship.

  • @TentaclePentacle
    @TentaclePentacle 6 років тому +51

    Put a phaser on a cargo transport and you can call it a maquis raider.

    • @IronWarhorsesFun
      @IronWarhorsesFun 6 років тому +1

      Didn't Dukat do that with a cardassian freighter?

    • @steeltimberwolf
      @steeltimberwolf 6 років тому +1

      @@IronWarhorsesFun I believe he put a photon torpedo launcher as he fires 3 torpedo like blasts when he took over that Klingon bird of prey

    • @TentaclePentacle
      @TentaclePentacle 6 років тому +2

      dukat put a disrupter on the cargo bay. He opened up the bay door and fired.

    • @namelessking8905
      @namelessking8905 6 років тому +2

      TentaclePentacle - That is what they did. The ship is a condor class courier.

    • @IronWarhorsesFun
      @IronWarhorsesFun 6 років тому

      @@steeltimberwolf no he borrowed a galors main phaser i think

  • @LtDavidB312
    @LtDavidB312 5 років тому +2

    I’m surprised you didn’t touch on the use of the Maquis fighter model as the Federation fighter during the Dominion War.

  • @on1yadam
    @on1yadam 6 років тому +17

    Lmao don't taze me bro!!

  • @RinIsArty
    @RinIsArty 6 років тому +1

    Just calling any random ship a 'Maquis Raider' makes sense to me. Against a starfleet ship, they're completely worthless, so it's just "Okay, these are some Marquis-commanded ships, and they're used in raiding, we don't need specifics considering they don't pose us any threat, so we'll just lump them all together."

  • @skyborne80
    @skyborne80 6 років тому +1

    As I saw it, 100% visually, there were three types of Maquis ships. The Peregrine, seen in DS9's "The Maquis", which looked to be the size of a Runabout. The "Raider" type, seen in TNG's "Preemptive Strike", which seemed to be the size of the Peregrine and had a smaller cockpit like construct on the top. Finally, the "Raider" type in VOY's "Caretaker", which had a new, larger cockpit and had a full crew aboard. Factor in the dialogue, however, and it all goes south....

  • @lucofparis4819
    @lucofparis4819 6 років тому +2

    I was always under the assumption that the Maquis got their hands on industrial replicators from local colonies or from the Bajorans. Their Peregrines weren't powerful or numerous enough to deal with the new Galore class. So they replicated scaled up versions of the Peregrine parts, and essentially assembled a bigger, heavier, better Peregrine, and called it the Raider, since they used it to... raid. And since Federation never used heavy fighters and had warships already, they never cared to field this design (even though they should have, given how they suffered in the Dominion War).

    • @jarradscarborough7915
      @jarradscarborough7915 6 років тому

      they were basically all called raiders regardless of size, but that is actually the best explanation i've heard for why they would just have larger versions of the same ship, just scaling up plans from replicators. i think chakotays ship was functionally kinda like an alkesh medium bomber, small enough to be nimble, big enough to be effective

    • @lucofparis4819
      @lucofparis4819 6 років тому +1

      @@jarradscarborough7915 Agreed. And that's exactly the kind of ship a colony would need and be able to build. A big bomber craft or gunship. Supported by fighters or shuttles. I also always thought fighters were actually common in Trek, but dedicated as police crafts, anti Pirate ships, or just there to delay hostiles until warship can deal with the big threats. Since warships tend to be much less frequent than the actual numbers of colonies, outposts and trade routes. Also fighters would make good escorts for civilian freighters.

  • @KertaDrake
    @KertaDrake 6 років тому +1

    Hey, you have to respect the Sombrero of Kahless! Sombreros are a truly honorable article of clothing to shield the eyes from the sun and putting one on a ship is merely an even greater honor!

  • @stephenlutz6936
    @stephenlutz6936 6 років тому +15

    I guess the Federation forgot what the Cardassians did to Bajor during the occupation. Who wouldn't fight back against them. I'm surprised that a Starfleet captain didn't turn off their ship's transponder and use the ship for the Maquis.

    • @IronWarhorsesFun
      @IronWarhorsesFun 6 років тому +1

      O'brean sure as hell didn't!

    • @Silverhawk100
      @Silverhawk100 6 років тому

      Well, they were just going to relocate the colonists until Picard reminded them that relocating Indians may not be the best policy in the galaxy.

    • @johnweatherman5685
      @johnweatherman5685 4 роки тому

      Honestly, given the EXTREME response of Starfleet to the Maquis, and the willingness of Starfleet to actively hunt their own on behalf of the Cardassians to "preserve the treaty", I'm not entirely sure that some captains and their crews didn't do exactly that. I certainly got that impression over the various series than dealt with the issue.

  • @1nONLY_DRock
    @1nONLY_DRock 6 років тому +3

    I agree that Voyager's writing was sloppy and the Marquis ships were inconsistently portrayed. But I think it's plausible that the Marquis can get their hands on all sorts of federation ships. You have Starfleet sympathizers and defectors who could transfer or steal equipment. Heck, one of Eddington's last acts as a Starfleet Officer was to rip off DS9 big time before he quit! It wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for these people to buy old ships from scrapyards, from starship dealerships, or just 'requisition' a few and have them 'disappear', or have a few ships destined for the breaking yards end up not getting that far and being written off regardless. Whole lot of ways the Marquis could have ended up with ships. They didn't need to make them.

    • @robertagu5533
      @robertagu5533 6 років тому +1

      Dunno bout that. When the Dominion led the Cardis in wiping them out they didn't seem to provide ANYTHING bigger then these talked bout Raider ships which I guess means about the heaviest thing they apparently fielded was basically a frigate or gunship at the strongest. ANYTHING shoulda seen them at least being able to provide a handful Galaxy or Constitutions if not at least 1 or 2 actual cruisers or better if anything..

    • @redshirt5126
      @redshirt5126 6 років тому +1

      Robert Agu the Maquis operated mostly in a place called the Badlands which was filled with ion storms that were a hazard to large cruisers. That's why the Maquis favored smaller gunships and corvettes as opposed to larger ships they could have acquired.

    • @robertagu5533
      @robertagu5533 6 років тому

      @@redshirt5126 I remember that from a few Voyager episodes. Still, as they found out. Doesn't excuse NEVER thinking ahead enough in anticipation of needing bigger, better and way more powerful ships to be able to handle much more situations and even be able to launch strait up battles with. Which is ULTIMATELY how EVERY resistance movement in fiction and real life ACTUALLY finally won those that did. Was just saying was all. Even WITH it strictly being between the Maqui and the Cardassians the colonists were NEVER going to win without serious overt support from one the stronger more war like species/powers or like said eventually fielding much better and more powerful ships

    • @redshirt5126
      @redshirt5126 6 років тому +1

      Robert Agu Maybe so, and maybe they did have a few cruisers in their arsenal. We know they wanted to declare independence so they must have had a decent amount of firepower to defend their territory. I don't know how that would have helped against the Dominion. Remember, at first Dominion weapons could penetrate the shields of ANY Starfleet vessel. Fortunately, they were able to use a stolen Dominion ship to upgrade their sheilds, but I doubt the Maquis ever got this upgrade.

  • @thegreenmanofnorwich
    @thegreenmanofnorwich 4 роки тому

    There are several models used to represent the ships used by the Maquis. You can see the three main types in pre-emptive strike. There are the ones from The Maquis (later reused as attack fighters). There's the one Ro flies in pre-emptive strike. Chakotay's one was a (possibly bigger) variation of the one Ro flew (I assumed the number of people were due to wanting to hijack a freighter), and the one that's identical to the bajoran assault ship (the ones that shot down Kira and Dax)

  • @starsilverinfinity
    @starsilverinfinity 6 років тому +31

    "One if the most inconsistent ships in Star Trek Lore"
    Hahahahhahahaha - something will come around to take that title, you wait

    • @cropathfinder
      @cropathfinder 6 років тому +2

      wait STAR TREK IS CONSISTENT!!

    • @clearspira
      @clearspira 6 років тому +6

      It already has - its called the Constitution class. Never a deck, control panel, room or feature the same week on week, film to film.

    • @grayscribe1342
      @grayscribe1342 6 років тому +5

      @@clearspira Yes, like the Enterprise A with it's 78 decks in Star Trek V.

    • @AlexSDU
      @AlexSDU 6 років тому +2

      Star Trek - consistent in keeping inconsistency.

    • @starsilverinfinity
      @starsilverinfinity 6 років тому

      @@grayscribe1342 @clearspira - however, unlike the Constitution which has the meager excuse of being the main ship of the show, the Marqui fighter and Raider only appear a few times and really have no reason to be so inconsistent

  • @reesemontoya5318
    @reesemontoya5318 6 років тому +1

    Paladin class were originally smaller class ships than they beefed them up for the dominan war so they had increased range size and firepower.
    There was a bigger freighter class provided to the colonists as well as paladin classes after increased aggression on the cardassian side the maquis converted them into long range fighters/assault ships like chakotays ship in Voyager

  • @KristoferOlafsson
    @KristoferOlafsson 6 років тому

    So I do some 3d printing and I scale models and parts a lot, and I feel some of the size inconsistency could be explained by some throw aways line like " the engineering required for ship design to warp bubble engineering is massive, however scaling a ship and its components is easy for the replicators and builders to do and no changes to warp bubble physics is needed if things are just scaled to match what is needed for that ships duty"

  • @rurrjh
    @rurrjh 6 років тому +8

    Re equipping ships. The Maquis were buying arms, in Ds9's The maquis. Now goodness knows where they got, the latinum but, if they could pay for it, I'd imagine nausican's or bajorans or Ferengi might have done the upgrades. Beyond that, I was confused with Voyager for a while, that there were so many Maquis, I thought at first, it was literally only Tuvok, Chakotay and Torres, on the raider.

    • @ottersirotten4290
      @ottersirotten4290 6 років тому +3

      I could immagine Klingons and Bajorans supported them with Latinum and Tech secretly becouse fu.. the Cardassians

    • @tigersebel
      @tigersebel 6 років тому +3

      @@ottersirotten4290 The Klingons even admitted that they gifted the maquis several cloaking devices as stated in the episode Blaze of Glory. so i guess the Maquis could also have a big amount of their Equipment from the Klingons.

    • @ottersirotten4290
      @ottersirotten4290 6 років тому +2

      Yea supporting "moderate" Rebels for weakening an potential future Enemy/Rival. Simple Geopolitiks or Spacepolitik?^^

    • @casbot71
      @casbot71 6 років тому +3

      Some Ferengi once bought three old Birds of Prey and used them to hijack the Enterprise D in a ambush - Although the surprising thing is even though the BOP were obsolete, they looked identical to front line ships from a alternate timeline where the Federation and the Empire were at war ?? 👨‍🚀🔫🦅🙏
      But it proves that a lot of decent gear is available on the open market, there may be some restrictions on arms trading within Federation territory, but outside it …

    • @rurrjh
      @rurrjh 6 років тому +1

      @@casbot71 Thanks , great point

  • @clearspira
    @clearspira 6 років тому +8

    Screw Memory Alpha; if you want an in-depth discussion into Star Trek lore, I would advise Ex-Astris Scientia. And in his article on the subject, he points out that the term Peregrine class is used precisely once in the history of the show and that is in the DS9 episode ''Heart of Stone'' - and we NEVER see what ship the name is referring to nor do we get a description beyond ''lightly armed courier''. It might not be this ship at all but something completely different, people have just assumed this to be the Peregrine based on a single word of dialogue. Fact is that the word ''courier'' sounds far more like it would be some kind of re-purposed freighter rather than a dedicated fighter capable of going one on one with a runabout.

    • @robertagu5533
      @robertagu5533 6 років тому

      Even if the Maqui actually used what's basically big fighters or gunships... Runabouts sound TINY compared to these "Raiders" and fighters the Maqui have such a hard on for and should be the one thing they Maqui WAY outgun if anything

    • @namyun2743
      @namyun2743 6 років тому

      @clearspira Actually, "courier" sounds like a faster, less modular version of a runabout. Something with light cargo capability, but not enough to be considered a "freighter"

  • @JosephWiess
    @JosephWiess 6 років тому +2

    Sombrero to the K'Tinga. You slay me, Lore.

  • @SignoftheMagi
    @SignoftheMagi 6 років тому

    A thought:
    In DS9, Eddington steals several industrial replicators for the Maquis. These are originally intended to help rebuild city infrastructure on Cardassia Prime.
    What if...Eddington and the Maquis managed to modify one of those replicators to help redesign and modify existing ships. Not exactly a shipyard...but like a mobile 'chopshop' to repair and rebuild older ships...into new roles. And with the Peregrine design already well known, using a sort of template to help standardize their patchwork fleet.
    Juat a thought.

  • @sirhenry9313
    @sirhenry9313 6 років тому +1

    Military speaking, "fire on the re-purposed peregrine class" v "fire at the marquis ship" or "fire at the marquis raider" does make sense. It's shorter, everyone knows what they mean, it's clear and concise. Doesn't matter what kind of ship it is or if your correct or accurate: as long as everyone there knows what you mean

    • @Krahazik
      @Krahazik 4 роки тому

      Also if you label it by its class, IE, Peregrin Class, you might cause other confusion, for example, if the ship is going way faster than the specifications for the Peregrin class say it should and also oh that cannon isn't in the specifications either.

  • @donbrunodelamancha1927
    @donbrunodelamancha1927 6 років тому

    @Lore Reloaded I only happened upon you channel last week. It’s petty good. This is, though the first time I heard your catch phrase. I really, really like it. It both challenges people to aspire more and remind people that our here, in this world is very much finite. Bravissimo‼️‼️🙆🏻‍♂️🙆🏻‍♂️🙆🏻‍♂️🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼

    • @LoreReloaded
      @LoreReloaded  6 років тому

      Welcome to the channel! Glad you enjoy it ;) This is actually from 'Doctor Who'.. It's a wonderful catch phrase that I think works wonderfully with the channel. I'm glad you like it.

  • @zincwing4475
    @zincwing4475 4 роки тому

    Maybe the Maquis build them planetside?
    Remember, Federation ships are build in space based shipyards. Maquis can't do that, but they could possibly construct smaller vessels on the ground, hidden. Those small ships are well suited for guarillia warfare as well.
    Also, the Raider as shown would be easier to build on the ground compared to most Starfleet ships. Less slim, and better supported hull.

  • @Logarithm906
    @Logarithm906 3 роки тому +1

    Print(Peregrine, scale=Normal).
    *10 hours later*
    Ok, who set the Normal to 3?
    *Marquis giggling*
    No don't laugh, it's not funny, you need a stepladder to get to the captain's chair.
    *even more Marquis giggling*

  • @laurenhenschel7158
    @laurenhenschel7158 6 років тому +2

    The 'Raider' seems like a misnomer like how the 'Star Destroyer' was a heavy cruiser and not a destroyer

  • @haroldcarfrey4206
    @haroldcarfrey4206 3 роки тому

    In military naval parlance, a raider or commerce raider is a civilian vessel converted into an armed vessel for the purposes of attacking merchant shipping

  • @suzikumieda2452
    @suzikumieda2452 2 роки тому

    In defense of the "raider" terminology: The US Coast Guard calls all their commissioned ships "cutters." The actual ships include everything from tug boats to tender ships to armed patrol craft and can range in size from 65 feet to over 400 feet; however, they are all cutters. Maybe that sort of blanket terminology was also applied to Maquis Raiders, making the actual model of the ship irrelevant.

  • @feynmanwasagenius3482
    @feynmanwasagenius3482 5 років тому

    I think its akin to the term "pirate ship". There is no specific ship called a "pirate ship" but most pirates in history (and today) tend to choose similar or the same ships as certain ship types they can buy from friendly ports would fit their needs.

  • @hhgeneralburkhalter4820
    @hhgeneralburkhalter4820 4 роки тому

    the smaller versions of the ship was a pergerine fighter, and was a actual fighter used by the federation to fight wars, the Maquis raider, use an freighter made by the same company

  • @clintcarpentier2424
    @clintcarpentier2424 6 років тому

    3:00
    The naming is actually quite consistent. For instance, the United Kingdom built a class of frigate they called the Flower class, which they exported to all it's allies; Canada got this frigate, and renamed it the Tribal class. It's just an identification of who owns the ship.

  • @reginaldtyroneshort
    @reginaldtyroneshort 4 роки тому

    The Colonies didn’t have shipyards but the Marquis could’ve repurposed space stations or abandoned asteroid mines into them. Failing that they could’ve bought surplus ships from Federation, Klingons and Ferengi or stolen them from scrapyards, pirates or smugglers. In Star Wars the Rebels did that.

  • @questaoolavo2346
    @questaoolavo2346 6 років тому +1

    A lot federation officers help the maqui including Vulcans cientists (ds9) so the raiders could be modifying to be more efficient as military ships

  • @thefishoftruth235
    @thefishoftruth235 3 роки тому

    In my headcanon, Starfleet intelligence "misplaced" some experimental peregrin class fighters and essentially used the Maquis to test their effectiveness. This would make sense as a large portion of Starfleet was lost at Wolf 359 so they needed a cheap replacement for some of the more minor duties like patrols, reconnaissance and convoy escort that would've been filled by Miranda or Oberth class ships. It makes sense to use small craft for this role as they are just as powerful than some of the rustbuckets that Starfleet carried over from the TOS era. I think it could have been the same line of thinking that led to the Danube class runabouts. Just a theory

  • @Plasmacore_V
    @Plasmacore_V 6 років тому +1

    If there was a USS Continuity in Starfleet, what class is it?

  • @rangerjima
    @rangerjima 6 років тому

    I have a feeling that sense the ships the Maqui use are hodgepodge together, that starfleet and other naval forces simply use the term to determine a relative threat level. You never know what the ship has for weapons but the space frame itself limits how many or the power of. I do get your point that it feels messy or not well done, after all we have had the same bird of prey blowing up on our screen for years now it should be no surprise that they use what ever they have on hand to fill the plot.

  • @barrybend7189
    @barrybend7189 6 років тому +4

    4:19 yay more Suika. 😊😊

  • @oogaboogaman13
    @oogaboogaman13 4 роки тому

    Would have been nice if Voyager had a higher budget to emphasize its uniqueness. Would have been cool to see the raider, captain's yacht, Nelix's shuttle, and Voyagers shuttle as some sort of fighter fleet in those earlier episodes.

  • @ALM1GHTY.PEANUT
    @ALM1GHTY.PEANUT 6 років тому

    Pretty sure you see the vessels the raider and fighter are based on, it shows them during the big DS9 battles. Part of the "Attack Squadrons". I can't remember the actual episodes. Maybe the colonists had a number of those vessels and repurposed?

  • @BrandonSchleifer
    @BrandonSchleifer 6 років тому

    I think the Maquis ships were there during the war with the Cardassians, and they're basically leftover obsolete ships that were there to defend from Cardassians before reaching peace. They were never repurposed by the Federation because they were worthless. Why not decommission and destroy or recycle them? Either it was seen as a waste of money, a Maquis spy/infiltrator made sure the required paperwork never got through, or both. So you'd have a lot of fighters, and a few raiders for superior firepower. Chakotay was a Starfleet captain before joining the Maquis, which is why he was given a full raider.

  • @TheCharlemagne1978
    @TheCharlemagne1978 5 років тому +1

    I thought they were old currier ships

  • @Al1701
    @Al1701 5 років тому

    The explanation should be simple. The Maquis used whatever they had at their disposal. The fighters were provided by Starfleet for anti-piracy after the Battle of Wolf 359 made it impossible to dedicate starships to that role. There were also a few patrol ships which were more substantial than the fighters but could still be considered small craft (like PT Boats from WWII). These larger ships where used as flagships by the Maquis' highest ranking commanders. Hence why we rarely see them and only under the command of Maquis who were high ranking Starfleet before joining.
    This would be nice to be extrapolated on, like a scene in DS9 where they go over the resources at the disposal of the Maquis to determine the level of threat they pose. However, Voyager was just going to do its thing without a care for it. Probably why TNG and DS9 used them better.

  • @PapaRoboto
    @PapaRoboto 3 роки тому

    Maybe the Maquis have undisclosed help from other bigger factions like the romulans or klingons or something.
    They unofficially help the Maquis because they’re hurting the Federation and the Cardassians.

  • @Daimo83
    @Daimo83 6 років тому

    Technical isn't a name, but it's what soldiers call pick up trucks converted into weapons platforms.

  • @IronWarhorsesFun
    @IronWarhorsesFun 6 років тому +1

    it's the rebel alliance! They're suppling them from the star wars universe through the wormhole! Those are modified YT series freighters like the Falcon because PEREGRINE FALCON, GET IT😂

  • @casbot71
    @casbot71 6 років тому

    The Marquis could have gotten old freighters like the YT-1300, put in better shielding, replaced the drive with a class 0.5, added quad laser cannons and …
    Wait…What?
    Laser cannons?
    Seriously, laser cannons!
    Those won't even penetrate…and this is a legendary ship that helped take down two moon sized Battlestations?
    Holy Zarquon, how feeble must the opposition have been?

  • @g.c.brooks7214
    @g.c.brooks7214 Рік тому

    From what I understand, the Marquis raider and fighter are two different ships that sorta look similar. The raider is slightly larger and was pretty much a Federation civilian transport ship that had been modified with shields and weapons. The fighter (Peregrine class) is smaller and seats 2 people. The Peregrine class is a Starfleet designed tactical fighter. IIRC, the Marquis were assisted by sympathetic officers within Starfleet and got their hands on industrial replicators. That, in theory, would've allowed them to maintain and possibly build more ships by reverse engineering the ships they were possibly given or stolen. Many Marquis members were former Starfleet officers like Eddington, so it's not a stretch to think they used their contacts in the organization to get their hands on weapons & tech Civilian colonists shouldn't have access to.

  • @malusignatius
    @malusignatius 4 роки тому

    For some reason I thought they were repurposed courier ships, but I can't for the life of me recall where I got that idea.

  • @spiritofthewolf15x
    @spiritofthewolf15x 6 років тому +12

    Starship lore, Andromeda Ascendant.

    • @dragonknightleader1
      @dragonknightleader1 6 років тому +1

      Now that's a ship worthy of the name Enterprise! Because the Enterprise was an aircraft carrier and that's what Andromeda is.

    • @atoll8423
      @atoll8423 6 років тому +2

      @@dragonknightleader1 Wouldn't it be more of a flight-deck BB? The Andromeda does everything including landing parties.

    • @dragonknightleader1
      @dragonknightleader1 6 років тому +2

      @@atoll8423I guess so. Not as good as the Space Battleship Yamato, but a damn fine vessel.

    • @robertagu5533
      @robertagu5533 6 років тому

      Andromeda was sorta a carrier but built to be 2 thirds heavy battleship. At the Andromeda shows start she was even in her time o e of the Commonwealths MOST powerful battleships. Possibly considered even a Dreadnaught. She had fighters but only so many and was much better a battleship and fought liken it more then a carrier

  • @drahcir8402
    @drahcir8402 6 років тому

    I use the Macross Defence. What we see is not necessarily how things look, or how things happened. But an in-universe creation.

  • @skyeplaysgames6734
    @skyeplaysgames6734 6 років тому +16

    Did you hear about Stan the man?

    • @LoreReloaded
      @LoreReloaded  6 років тому +12

      I did..its sad :/

    • @stephenlutz6936
      @stephenlutz6936 6 років тому +7

      R.I.P. Stan. Marvel movies will feel different without his cameos.

    • @skyeplaysgames6734
      @skyeplaysgames6734 6 років тому +4

      I agree

    • @-skinner-6542
      @-skinner-6542 6 років тому +9

      We honor Stan and dedicate Excelsior class to him. Excelsior Stan.

    • @starsilverinfinity
      @starsilverinfinity 6 років тому +7

      - Skinner - heck - he should have his own planet named after him!

  • @hauntedhouse7827
    @hauntedhouse7827 6 років тому

    Actually it does make sense if assume the maquis were an insurgent force. Milutary forces facing an insurgent group will have to broadly define what insurgent military assets are comprised of because of the wide variety of sources they draw equipment from. Unlike proper units that have standardized supply units. Raider or fighter will be blanket terms to describe an extremly generalized category of equipment they are facing. The best example i can think of are the somali pirates, they use a wide variety of weapons and boats, but they are all called pirate boats

  • @STNuevo
    @STNuevo 6 років тому +1

    You are right, not always, but often.

  • @Marcus51090
    @Marcus51090 6 років тому +3

    They used peregrine class fighters
    And Ja’day class freighters right?
    No one leaves paradise right?
    It makes perfect sense, remember they stole several federation CFI industrial replicators, they can start replicating factory’s etc ship parts and build them themselves, I have no doubt they took the designs from starfleet considering a lot of starfleet personal defected it’s possibly that they took specs designs etc
    They are humans so it stands to reason they would use human technology. If the dominion hadn’t destroyed them I could see them becoming their own sovereign state

    • @jarradscarborough7915
      @jarradscarborough7915 6 років тому

      no need to steal designs, scan and upload, now you have blueprints, now make 50 more of each part and assemble. enjoy your war.
      btw - not human technology - federation technology, and not just humans in maquis - lotsa species, or tuvok would not have lasted long!

    • @Marcus51090
      @Marcus51090 6 років тому

      Jarrad Scarborough *LONG LIVE THE TERRAN EMPIRE* lol

    • @jarradscarborough7915
      @jarradscarborough7915 6 років тому +1

      @@Marcus51090 yeah, i utorrent all my starships! ('pirate' ships! XD)

  • @johnfitzgeraldii1952
    @johnfitzgeraldii1952 6 років тому +8

    The larger version is call a Ju'Day or Condor Class and is an equivalent of the Bird of Prey and can be used as a transport or scout or Runabout.
    Quit trying to spoil the show and suspend your reality.

    • @LoreReloaded
      @LoreReloaded  6 років тому +1

      Theres no alpha canon that supports that and evidence that counters it.. stop commenting until you understand the channel and the commentor?

    • @terrencejones9817
      @terrencejones9817 6 років тому +1

      @@LoreReloaded Sorry you are very wrong. Look at a planeform view of both the fighter and the Raider. They are very different. The wings are different. The warp engines are different, the location of the weapons are different.

  • @dustinshadle732
    @dustinshadle732 6 років тому

    a few things to consider.... the fighters that the bajoran resistance had were likely supplied via third party and made by some sort of federation front, which of course, using base federation tech, would easily be identifiable as federation.
    they would likely take anything that could be modified, and from anyone offering the right price. this is common practice when forming insurgencies to help resistance fighter groups on earth at this time.
    weapons would not likely be standard format. they had to piece things together or build from scratch what they did have and could use. this would no doubt have an effect on tactics.
    the fighters were likely meant for planetary customs and interdiction duties to delay ships for the cavalry to jump in and then clear out. some may have had special countermeasures or weapons that were really not sensible to use until the capital ships took over as the main threat. then a fighter might have been able to harass the flanks and get in really close to avoid most weapon systems. point defense systems would likely be about the only reliable way to take out the ships so close to the hull.
    the fighters, as we see them, using crews of 3 or more more than likely served more of a purpose similar to the P-61 Black Widow. it had guns, cannon, and rockets or bombs. They were night fighters that were great at harassing enemy formations and causing enemy mistakes. they also benefited from radar. the fighters in Trek are more useful the more ships that enter battle. they become mosquitoes that the enemy cant take out without risking hitting friendly ships. meanwhile these little bugs can move in and out, pick out main systems or even drop mines within a formation, hit them with a projectile of choice, or maybe beam in a few agents. but on smaller scales, the fighters are more open and exposed, and i would sooner take an up armed and armored runabout than a fighter. better systems in place for going for sensor info on unknown or new weaknesses, more powerful all around, and warp capable. perhaps going beyond a small class 7 or 8 shuttle is more than the average person would be allowed due to them being mainly for official federation operations. you can always take away weapons, which could be easily retrofitted onto the craft that had weapons to start with, and shields would be something that would likely not be taken out when sold, since its purely defensive in nature. i would imagine these would not be the newest of designs but still give the owner or pilot a chance of escape. so you might also consider some of them as torpedo boats, like the US and Germans had in WW2. capable of doing lots of damage in the right circumstances, but most often just trying to find a way to keep the enemy off balance.

  • @georgem1874
    @georgem1874 6 років тому

    There is one other instance when the larger 'raider' is likely present. The mirror universe episode where the Terrans build a defiant. Bashir in what looks like the raider 'saves' the defiant. Somehow making a difference against the oversized alliance ship when the defiant was struggling. Though it seemed to only be flown by bashir, it's hard to imagine a single Peregrine class fighter adding anything meaningful to the defiants power, and on screen shots put them similar in size, and yes I know there are all sorts of issues with size in that episode. But the fact that it apparently did something meaningful says it was more then a little fighter. It is however emblematic of the inconstancy, how is such a slapdash vessel any kind of threat against that oversized NegVar even with it getting hammered by a defiant class. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

  • @felixautomaton5314
    @felixautomaton5314 6 років тому

    Calling them "Maquis Raiders" would save some embarrassment to the organization that's really supplying them. However, the first good scan of the ship would probably give the game away barring someone like Section 31 doing something crazy like designing and building fighters out of replicated Klingon parts.

  • @BrokenEyes00
    @BrokenEyes00 6 років тому

    It really depends on how well structure the marqui actually were as an organization, if there really was a connection to Bajor it’s likely they were taught similar cell based tactics and so naming or class schemes may have only mattered in thr cell but not the organization.

  • @saquist
    @saquist 3 роки тому

    I'm conducting a combat analysis of the Maquis Raider this week. What's helpful about this video is that I now must acknowledge that the Raider is a stand-in for a larger vessel they couldn't afford a new model for much like the K'Vort Class Battlecruiser represented by a Bird of Prey as you mentioned. Another ship that's done the same way is the Kazon fighter and Kazon Raider.
    Because the Maquis Raider was attacked by both Cardassian and Kazon ships it's a useful metric for the firepower of those ships.
    -Currently I've deduced that the Cardassian Galor is 41% LESS powerful than the Kazon Mothership.
    -Voyager took an estimated 645 hits from the Mothership making Voyager's shields 32.26 TIMES stronger than the Maquis Raider.
    I'm hoping to find evidence of the Maquis ships firepower but that seems like a lost cause seeing as they opperate whatever weapons they can find. TNG Preemptive strike is my best bet.

  • @simonwinn8757
    @simonwinn8757 6 років тому

    If Voyager can design and make the Delta Flyer within a week, just by using a starship replicator. You have to wonder how fast are those big planetary industrial replictors are.

  • @SuperGamefreak18
    @SuperGamefreak18 6 років тому +2

    truthfully I always say the names of raiders and fighter are more a federation name that ship, like the d-7 class thing for klingon ships, but obviously far from the potential that the story are lacking

  • @Revkor
    @Revkor 6 років тому

    Lore consider this. We know that private organizations used Oberth's for there work and the Federation is huge so there is likely private ship designs used that are not starfleet. ANd will still need armed ships. That's where the raider comes in and even the Pregrine and while some colonies may not have ship yards you can bet they made some durign there reign...I'm jsut surprise they didn't try raidign the mothball fleet for some old designs. a Marquis Connie would have been interesting.

  • @mrbojangles8133
    @mrbojangles8133 4 роки тому

    fans: use your brains
    CBS: brains? hmm must look that up some time

  • @seekertwo1
    @seekertwo1 6 років тому

    One possibility.....the Maquis tended to purchase their ships and weapons instead of having their own manufacturing base. They could have commissioned a third party (Ferengi, Orions, etc.) to build unlicensed knockoffs of the fighters and raiders. It might also explain why the Federation fighters were superior to the Maquis versions.

  • @mikemalo47
    @mikemalo47 6 років тому +2

    Department 13 black op to supply ships to the Marquee . as to fighter and raider , it could be the same hull but outfitted with different equipment . ( and yeah CBS Just don't give a shit ) Trading off crew size and comfort , for heavy weapons and bigger engines

  • @vallettapetracyneran8587
    @vallettapetracyneran8587 6 років тому +3

    one. I also very much agree.

  • @samsonsteinreis9660
    @samsonsteinreis9660 6 років тому

    Dear Lore, thank you, for your cool videos. :)
    In this case however, you overlook a significant technology in Star Trek.
    Replicators.
    Whit the right program, they make you everything. And whit the bigger industrial replicators the Maquis got in DS9, they could make there owen small Starships, if they find dilithium to by. Shuttlesize crafts not need big shipyards.
    Thanks again, Lore, please keep up making more videos.

  • @ericlanglois9194
    @ericlanglois9194 6 років тому

    Maquis Raider is a description, not a type. It's a raiding ship used by the Maquis. A Klingon Bird of Prey that raids ships would be a Klingon Raider. A Romulan Warbird that raids ships would be a Romulan Raider. It doesn't matter what class it is, just who it belongs to and what it's currently doing. In the case of the Maquis Fighter, well, it's a Fighter used by the Maquis, regardless of class again.
    As far as I'm aware it's never stated what class of ships the Maquis use. For the fighters, I believe the name Peregrine was only ever uttered once without ever being shown. People automatically started calling the fighters seen in DS9 (same model as the Maquis Fighter) as the Peregrine class. There might also have been a mention in Star Trek Nemesis when Picard and Data found the Scorpion fighters, though again without actually showing it.

  • @imaantagonist6322
    @imaantagonist6322 6 років тому

    From a military standpoint I'd guess calling them fighters and raiders aren't referring to the class of ship but maybe it's function. A fighter may be more for air to air (ship to ship) operations while a raider has an extended mission. Perhaps landing troops, ground assault, quick hit and runs. While I admit I'm unsure of the rolls these ships played individually this seems logical to me. We see it in real life. The F/A-18 is a Fighter/Attack craft used for air and ground operations. A different version the G is used for electronic warfare. We would call them Hornets or Growlers. The C-130 is another example. Normally it's a cargo plane however the refit version turns it into a devastating ground attack and support aircraft.

  • @donwon7592
    @donwon7592 6 років тому +4

    MAQUIS. YOU MEAN FREEDOM FIGHTERS.

  • @majesticwolfyguy6629
    @majesticwolfyguy6629 6 років тому

    I imagine it like the Firefly, if it got a weapons upgrade and changed the cargo bay into a troop bay. Holds a lot of people for long missions without needing to change crew

  • @SolarWraith
    @SolarWraith 6 років тому +6

    Oddly enough, the Maquis Raider is a T6 lobi ship in STO. Smh Terrible.

    • @Bronasaxon
      @Bronasaxon 5 років тому

      (Facepalms)
      And it’s shit like this that makes me hate STO

    • @semiblindbritguy2268
      @semiblindbritguy2268 4 роки тому

      Yeah but the ability is awesome

  • @chrismulders2344
    @chrismulders2344 6 років тому

    Fighter on a budget would look more... Firefly-ish than mass produced federation style fighters. Seems like some people couldn't handle the chop shop vessel look.

  • @antifapers
    @antifapers 5 років тому

    name "maqui raider" doesn't imply it was built by the maqui. a lot of times in our own world factions will buy a weapon and rename it. for example yemeni rebels have acquired Chinese anti-ship missiles and given them another name. this becomes especially significant when the rebels dont want to expose the source of their weapons.

  • @nunya3163
    @nunya3163 4 роки тому

    I would have expected the Maquis vessels to be a collection of cobbled together bits a pieces, and perhaps one or two truly ancient patrol craft. Not anything resembling a true class.

  • @newname6956
    @newname6956 4 роки тому

    Originally designed for the cardassian border wars. Starfleet could use them as mobile bases when they land on the ground. And could often be used to augment an armada. I will grant you I don't know the class name but they are repurposed Starfleet ships from the border wars. "Thanks chief."

  • @Fenris77
    @Fenris77 6 років тому

    The Maquis Raider/Fighter was basicaly a sort of Star Trek variety of Star Wars universe's YT-1300 and popular among smuglers for its handling and speed.
    The heroic Maquis could easily get their hands on a number of these and as you said refit them for combat (Hit and run mostly).

  • @happy18yu
    @happy18yu 6 років тому

    I would say the maquis raider 's ships are more like Q ships . Merchant vessels that are fitted with stronger weapons . They should be many different ships with only a few appearing the same .

  • @Stephen__White
    @Stephen__White 3 роки тому

    I feel the Maquis would have made more sense had they operated much like the Minmatar from EVE Online do, for those who may not know, the Minmatar(in lore) build their ships using scrap from other nations, they scavenge for parts and they use the best of what they can find to build their ships, and repurpose the less useful metals and parts into guns and ammo for said guns. Their weapons being projectile guns that fire various charges, such as Phased Plasma, EMP, Fusion, Titanium Sabot, Depleted Uranium, Proton, Nuclear, and Carbonized Lead. So they effectively just throw what ever they can find and fit into their guns at their targets. The Minmatar ships are rusty and beat up looking because they are built from the scrap of other ships, they tend to have fairly average shields and armor plating because once again, they scavenge for parts. They also have some missile launchers of various types from once again scavenging. If the Maquis had been more like that I feel they would have worked better.
    I get the argument of "well how could they have built ships?" and my answer is the Bajorans. As it was mentioned they were sympathetic towards the Maquis, and they did have ship yards capable of building smaller ships they could have sold/lent to the Maquis. The Maquis could have also taken over some outlaying Federation shipyards that it wasn't a top priority to take back, because let's face it the Federation would have likely not bothered to reclaim a Maquis shipyard until they really needed it. Or they could have just simply bought some from the Ferengi, who likely would have been more than happy to strike a good bargain on some used shipyards and likely some junk as well.
    Let's face it, space is going to be full of junk, and with a few Federation ships likely also defecting to the Maquis cause, they could also produce some of their own space junk from attacking the Cardassian ships in the area. Imagine if the Maquis ships were scrappy hybrid ships, part Star Fleet, part Bajoran, part Cardassian, and part Ferengi. Imagine how that would look, no they wouldn't have been as strong as the ships they stole parts from but that's not the point, they would likely be built for speed first, firepower second, survivability third, do hit and runs and with every ship they destroy they would only get stronger as that would mean more scrap to use to build more ships.
    If they had been written like this it would still make sense that the Dominion wiped them out, only then it would make even more sense. The Maquis would likely have a decently sized fleet of their own. It also likely would have opened up the opportunity for some to have escaped from the Dominion fleets and join back up with the Federation or even the Bajorans. But no, they were meant as a short term baddy and nothing more, so they got the bare minimum of effort put into them and that was all.

  • @Starman_Dx
    @Starman_Dx 6 років тому

    Wait, so the gas Spock was talking about in star trek 6 (best star trek movie don't @ me)... It was beans! Klingons eat tons of beans! Beans, sombreros... it makes sense now! They're space mexicans!

  • @Becka_Harper
    @Becka_Harper 6 років тому +3

    Okay this one could be long so buckle up buttercups.
    People forget just how vast the Federation is, going by Memory Alpha by the time of DS9 it's 8,000 light years (which is kind of meaningless when you're dealing with a 3d space but I'll assume that's cubic light years), and over 150 worlds as members. So where am I going with this?
    Mail's gotta move.
    We exist in a sort of Trek-like world right now from a civilian level tech, minus replicators, way. Email, VOIP, cellphones, near instantaneous communication across more or less the entire planet. But we still have mail/couriers for various reasons, but mainly because somethings are not made locally, or can not be made locally need to be moved from where they are, to where they're not. So back to Trek.
    Need a diplomat somewhere yesterday and because (as fucking usual) there's no starship available in Sol? Send the fucker on a a long range, high speed courier vessel.
    Need an organ for transplant from Vulcan to Earth because some muppet of a Vulcan forgot to time his 7 year curse and got himself stabbed somewhere unpleasant, oh and to make matters worse he has some weird condition that will reject anything but a perfectly compatible real organ? Send that extra testicle (which for some weird reason is also his spleen...if the writers can pull shit out of their asses so can I damn it!) on a high speed courier vessel.
    Grandma wants to send her grandkids some real hand made cookies, not that replicated crap? Send it off on the monthly high speed courier to "Colony Asshole of Nowhere IV" so the kids can get diabetes, and high, because of course granny's a grower.
    The Fleet are not going to use a starship as a glorified courier for anyone other than themselves and the Federation government. It would be a waste of valuable resources, post scarcity or not. Soooooo it stands to reason that the Federation would be in part holding their vast network of worlds, colonies, and stations together with some sort of official courier service, probably overseen but not run day to day by the Fleet. Like I said, the mail's gotta move.
    Someone steals even a mothballed Daedalus, or pre-Fed Earth starship and they've become a problem. Someone steals a glorified postal service van "...hell son it's a rough galaxy out there, just go have a drink, and then go requisition a new one." This would sort of (if you squint real hard) explain the differing sizes based around the same spaceframe; postal services in reality use all sorts of vans of different sizes, but they're all basically the same thing/shape/design, and crews no matter how small need somewhere to sleep, eat and shit so that means living space.
    It would also make it really easy for a sympathetic Starfleet captain to arrange for a couple dozen older ones, ones that had maybe been designated for live-fire exercises, to go missing...and if they were found by someone, with some basic (unequipped) armaments on a random moon somewhere...well mistakes happen and it's not as if they're "real" star/warships anyway so, meh.
    Just my thoughts on this.

    • @namyun2743
      @namyun2743 6 років тому +1

      @Amanda Harper Gives whole new meaning to "FedEx"

    • @Becka_Harper
      @Becka_Harper 6 років тому +1

      Congratulations; you win the internet for the day!

    • @namyun2743
      @namyun2743 6 років тому

      @@Becka_Harper *Squeals like a little child given a puppy* BTW, I love your postal service analogy and I think that would make a fun subject for a possible Star Trek TV show: Star Trek: Postal. It can be a tongue-in-cheek show revolving around the crew of one of these couriers and their day-to-day adventures, dodging whatever the galaxy has to throw at them. A cross between Firefly and Futurama's Planet Express. First season finale, they get their ship 'jacked by the Maqui while they stopped at a Starbase to pick up some supplies! ;)

  • @signorUebelst
    @signorUebelst 6 років тому

    tbh with the way the star trek universe works (transporters, replicators, minor refits and all) it wouldnt supprise me if the Marquis was able to find some parts dissassemble some peregine fighters and build a larger ship out of it....
    after all they had access to atleast a few starfleet officers and some of those are able to build new ship classes out of one or two shuttles and some spare parts
    (see deltaflyer)
    It could be their atemp at doing some damage as IIRC the Peregine wasnt really able to do much damage against Cardassian ships

  • @grast5150
    @grast5150 5 років тому

    I would say from DS9, TNG, and Yoyager shows that quite a few High Ranking and well influenced Star Fleet officers have migrated to the Maquis. This would translate to me they would have brought SIGNIFICANT amount of weapons, defense, and replication technology when they left. Look at DS9, Hudson was a full Captain in Star Fleet. Do you really think he would just leave Star Fleet without a plan? He would have stole, borrowed, and tricked his way into every piece of technology he could ship to the Maquis prior to his defection. Michael Eddington was Chief of Security for Star Fleet and had significant amount of Intel and access to sensitive information. We see on screen that Eddington took a bulk replicators as part of this defection. I would surmise he was shipping goods to the Maquis for months prior to his executing his plans.
    This lead to the Maquis raider. I agree they were probably ships from different races BUT with the help of Eddington and Hudson greatly upgraded with the latest Star Fleet technology.
    Later...

  • @Krahazik
    @Krahazik 4 роки тому

    Maybe labeling it by the name of its owners rather than root class is a way of distinguishing it from other craft of the class operated by other organizations. Also, in doing so might get across quickly that to some extent you may not know what you're dealing with exactly since the craft may not perform or act like its root class due to heavy modification.

  • @bluemagus2424
    @bluemagus2424 6 років тому +1

    maquies fighter.... modern equivalent Civilian air craft outfitted with illegal weapons.
    Maquies raider.... modern equivalent Civilian boat/ drug sub outfitted with better weapons.
    no two are the same as they are built with whatever was available. by whoever thought they could do the work.

    • @jarradscarborough7915
      @jarradscarborough7915 6 років тому

      yeah, i figure a 2 seater is a fighter, anything else is a raider. raider is a general classification, but a fighter is a special classification (needs to be tiny)

  • @Chode216
    @Chode216 6 років тому

    What race would supply weapons and ships for a price, Ferengi maybe.

  • @andrewwblanchard6037
    @andrewwblanchard6037 6 років тому

    CHAKOTAY's MAQUIS ship
    was designated as
    LIBERTY
    in the
    STAR TREK : VOYAGER
    novel
    PATHWAYS
    the same class ship is
    on the episode
    STAR TREK : TNG
    PREEMPTIVE STRIKE
    were a
    STARFLEET BATTLE SHUTTLE
    class that was abandoned by
    STARFLEET in favor of
    RUNABOUTS
    they were supposed to be on
    STAR TREK : DS9
    as the shuttles
    but because BABYLON 5
    had STARFIGHTERS
    the ST DS9 creator's didn't want
    people thinking they copied
    BABYLON 5
    the 1st time we the audience
    see MAQUIS class ships is on
    STAR TREK : DS9 episodes
    MAQUIS part 1 and part 2
    and on the
    STAR TREK : TNG episode
    PREEMPTIVE STRIKE
    RO LAREN and RIKER are on
    a MAQUIS class ship
    that's classified as a
    BATTLE SHUTTLE

  • @Yeager123123
    @Yeager123123 6 років тому

    I always took it as a black market acquired ship and that it may actually be a Raider class.
    It may have been named after somebody and not after any intended purpose.
    As for the ships abilities, each ship is different and one may be better than the other or have a larger cargo capacity.
    The ship may have been transporting Maquis ground troops that were taking up every inch of internal space outside of critical areas, so while it is scaled up, the 23 crew members shouldn’t be a factor.
    You can fit more than that in a runabout.
    The ship is consistent to the Maquis seeing as the Maquis seem to have no set criteria for standard operation.
    It’s inconsistent only from our perspective.
    And we KNOW that even larger frames of the Raider exist thanks to the Yeager class so I’d say this fits fine within universe.
    Does it make sense to scale up ships like this in OUR real world? Hell no.
    But this is Star Trek and it is absolutely established.

  • @Midnight.Shadows
    @Midnight.Shadows 6 років тому

    I still think the Maquis ships are basically the civilian colony ships, tugs, transports, and shuttles (Federation issue, not just Starfleet, but Federation to encompass all member worlds) And they just slapped a bunch of weapons on them. I mean think about it, the "Raider" and the fighters have wings, in what part of space do they need wings? Probably more for atmospheric flight control, which would make sense if it was just a civilian transport. It would also make sense that these ships would be highly modular, especially if they were tugs, cargo ships, and colony ships, civilians would pretty much reorganize them for whatever they needed, as such they just piled weapons onto them.
    If you use this train of logic it makes sense, you have a rugged, reliable, all purpose civilian ship that is meant to go into potentially hostile environments (uncolonized planets/dangerous trade routes/heavy duty tug and transport duty) as well as get its people there safely, in or out of atmosphere, and accommodate a most likely below average trained crew. If you remove most of their weapons and tactical systems it makes sense in that context, a heavier version of the workbee for example for the smaller ones, maybe those integrated nacelle looking things are actually storage tanks for supplies? Only designed really for one or two people to do the journey, and for the larger ones they're transports or colony ships or some other non-military duty ship, I mean look at the computers in Voyager for example, they're using the computer displays from the Enterprise-B and Ambassador class ships, clearly outdated, using this context again it makes more sense, why would the federation give civilians up to date military computers and equipment when they can just rip out old modules from mothballed ships 30+ years old to give to the civs to use.
    I believe these are federation ships, but not military, I believe their original intent was to be all-around shuttles/transports/tugs more or less, and since the Maquis made do with what they had, they probably just had these ships laying around for their transport/shuttle/tug needs and they decided "HEY LETS MOUNT A PHOTON TORPEDO LAUNCHER TO THIS THING BECAUSE WHY NOT!? THE CARDASSIANS ARE MOUNTING A GALOR CLASS PHASER BANK (Which really should not fit onto the Heideki to begin with.) ON THEIR SHIPS, SO LETS DO THE SAME!
    TL:DR, Civ transport ships from the start for colony upkeep/transport duty in mind, but with glued on weapons because screw it.
    Of course we know that's not the true reason. DAMN CBS! But oh well. We can try to justify it!

  • @raw6668
    @raw6668 6 років тому +1

    Yeah, it not like they could have used an Oberth or Miranda, ships confirmed in TNG to be used by both Starfleet and Civilians. Let's make no sense by upscaling a fighter and call its own ship.

    • @_Muzolf
      @_Muzolf 6 років тому +1

      Not even the rag tag bunch of terrorists like the Maquis would be caught dead in a Miranda.

    • @redshirt5126
      @redshirt5126 6 років тому

      A Miranda would not have lasted long in the Badlands.

  • @rickregina5053
    @rickregina5053 5 років тому

    I think youre overthinking the call sign of whether or not a Marquee ship is based off of a progenitor ship class. The US navy calls a boat with pirates on board a pirate boat. It would only be natural for Star Fleet to do the same, since no two Marquee ships are 100% alike.