1. Their lies are so effective that they can even fool themselves. 2. How you feel when you are with them. (Or after you have been with them.) 3. Their grandiosity will begin to leak out and be revealed through demonstrations of entitlement, arrogance, admiration seeking, and exploitation of others.
You know when you've dealt with them because nothing is normal. You can't quite put your finger on it, but problems can never be resolved. And you feel like you're slowly suffocating alive.
I think some people become avoidant after dealing with a covert narcissist because there’s never any resolution and trust is so badly damaged that it’s hard to want to put effort into a relationship after that. So much healing needs to be done after that kind of relationship
I am now joked about as being a "hermit" by people who know me. I used to be fun, bubbly and outgoing, and now I don't want to be around people anymore. It feels like relationships are transactional and everyone is just hoping to get the best return and not get stiffed. I know I am jaded... but I don't know how to rebuild from here.
@@thislittleweirdgirl332trust yourself enough to know that if people choose to cross you, you will be able to pick yourself back up. It’s better to love & lose than to not live at all. Have faith in yourself 💙
@@thislittleweirdgirl332 Boundaries and baby steps. Boundrify, then do a gut check and see if it's excessive. You have skills now that you did not have before. No nasty covert is going to sneak right up on you and walk off with your wallet. Baby steps are non-transactional social settings. A farmer's market, what have you. Open yourself up to chat and socialize with someone who seems friendly. This is a good place to flex your new skills and see what you learned. Someone gives you the skeeve, you pat yourself on the back and walk off. Go. Live. Enjoy.
It seems you partly describe a grandiose narcissist, a covert would not lie to make others believe they’re successful, they’d always play the poor victims/losers, but on the other hand they’d create a facade of being the best helper/most altruistic person in the world who wouldn’t harm anyone. Coverts are the most dangerous narcissists, they show up as helpless „kids“ and break your intuitive boundaries.
Covert more like introverted, may stay covert, saying that from observation. I've also seen a grandiose narc act like covert, at times, depending on the situation, and how he preferred to play it to his advantage. This video cleared it up for me because I thought he was grandiose, but was questioning that. Took years for me to identify narcissism because I had no knowledge about it, just knew things were off with these two people. The first was a compulsive liar and emotionally abusive, after many years thought back about that situation and realized that he showed all the traits of a covert narc. The second was the first one I identified, after a decade of knowing him, a person I really cared about, but again, something was off about him but I could sense his brokenness inside and was always there for him. My friends kept trying to get through to me about this person, because he was wasting years with empty promises, but I didn't want to see it and thought enough care would help him get to the place of being able to receive love. Eventually my friends bff opened my eyes and called him a narc, one day, because he had a rage fit outside her apartment building over a girl that worked there who didn't want to come outside and talk to him. So after that, with reading up about it, things became very clear.
Oh, I have heard lies. They are not about what is, it is about what could have been. "My aunt made me the sole beneficiary in her testament, she talked about it often. She carried the testament in her hand bag and it crumbled".
If you're in a relationship with an avoidant, run. Just fucking run. Get out. It'll be hell. You'll be gaslighted into oblivion just for wanting baseline levels of mutual trust, attention, affection, and wanting just a crumb of your emotional needs met. You'll never out-love their issues. And it'll leave you broken and unsure of yourself in every way.
*"...just for wanting baseline levels of mutual trust, attention, affection, and wanting just a crumb of your emotional needs met."* Just. Holy exact shit.
I was married to a covert narcissist for 24 years. I had to study it just to keep my sanity. I searched for years before I figured it out. I wish I had known about this disorder so I could have my life back.
....I was love-bombed for 3 months by a severe avoidant, it was awesome. Just that, the first time she shut down emotionally at that 3 months mark I abruptly ended the relationships and dumped her sorry arse to the curb. I still miss her terribly a couple of months down the track but it was worthwhile and I'll get over it. She can go do it to someone else now, probably someone way less secure and without the strong boundaries I have
If they are rude or condescending do it back , always pass the ball back , they won't hang around and most probably they will reveal themselves first . Narcissists want to do / say things to you that they would never tolerate from you in a million years .
My ex told me at the beginning of the relationshit that he should’ve been an actor. He also told me that he hadn’t seen his children in years, due to a social services order “fear of emotional abuse” His parents also warned me about him. He told his father he wanted to marry me. His dad secretly said to me, in response to his statement - “make sure you know what you’re doing” Like a fool I didn’t heed the warnings. Oh, how I regret not running away sooner. The most sadistic and cruel and nasty person I have met. And his name happened to me Alex also!…wow!…what a coincidence 😤Trigger!!!
I think the most important thing is for people to realize when they're in a toxic situation, and to see when they're being mistreated. Get out as fast as possible and worry about the diagnosis later. There are also those people who like to call every ex of theirs a narc, it gets a bit silly. But it's important to also be aware of the characteristics of narcissism (without looking for one behind every bush lol) because otherwise you can waste years believing the empty promises, investing in the wind, and end up with things like PTSD, cognitive dissonance etc.
Agree for 100%! In toxic relationships both partners are codependent of eachother, which means they both have the illusion their partner can make them happy. A narcissist feels safe with the illusion of being able to control his partner (or hers of course) - the result becomes he blames the partner when things don't turn out as he idealizes it. The partner has an illusion as well: "When I keep on pleasing him, he eventually will love me and then we can live happily ever after!" They both don't genuinely love eachother and they both are addicted to the negative tention. What they do have in common though is that they both suffer from trauma. Narcissists commonly have grown up spoilt. Their grandiose self-image is created during their childhood. When their parents kept on telling them they're better than the common people, they'll link every confrontation with their mistakes with rejection from their parents. It's very sad actually. Still the best thing you can do, is by realising it's not up to you to 'save' them. No matter if you hate the person for everything he did to you or you are worried about him: just don't allow people into your life who can only bring negativity into your life. Especially when you suffer from PTSD due to all the gaslighting, lies, projection, etc It might feel very unfair, because it SEEMS they can get away with everything. Eventually it's because of that their life remains empty and miserable.
Agree, get out if it's toxic, no matter the cause. It's not going to change for the better, and it's likely to actually get WORSE as they age. Soon enough, you'll realize you've wasted years waiting for the other person to want to improve. If they cared, they'd have been on it years ago. 😢
you wrote: "There are also those people who like to call every ex of theirs a narc, it gets a bit silly." That is not necessarily silly. We fall for the same type over and over again, until we learn to spot the traits, and heal ourselves
@totmirmis That's a fair point. I would say it's pretty accurate, too. Not all to the same degree, maybe, but all may have had traits and tendencies somewhere along the spectrum.
You are overlooking a HUGE issue. Trying to describe narcissistic abuse to others who have NOT experienced it is very very difficult and given that... The abused may look like the narcissist themselves as they do not feel understood either.
You make a good point. I don't hate my ex because she is mentally ill and doesn't know it. Hence, the reason why she won't get treatment and fix her life. She wanted to get married but that wouldn't fix her life or mine. It would create more hardship for me. No thanks.
That's a very good point. I think a lot of the times in relationships both sides could have done things differently. It's a two-way street, after all. Of course, it's possible that one side was at fault much more than the other, but it's more likely that one side was at fault and one more so than the other. I don't know whether I'm being mature or immature saying that...
So true. I was diagnosed with NPD - mistakenly! I was taking different kinds of medicine for eight years and tried four different approaches in therapy, before untangled all this to learn BOTH my mom and ex-wife were narcissists. I was constantly gaslighted and brainwashed for 38 years of my life! I’m on a path to recovery, but my personality is still quite disintegrated… I’m only doing this to break the cycle and stop damaging other people
My old aunt survived a long marriage with my narcisistic uncle. He passed away a couple of years ago, and now, she is showing up signs of dementia, always recalling events from that marriage over and over. Only God can tell, but we all think their toxic lifestyle has a lot to do with her condition. In short, pay attention to the words of our smart counselor Chris,...because what he is saying makes a lot of sense.
@@tamarajarrell4812 Because stress makes people sick. I think that the narcissist uncle probably gaslighted his wife. She probably succumbed to it, so she didn't knew what real and what was not.
There are relatively new studies that shows that narcissistic abuse can make the victims develop dementia in their later stages of life. That demon killed her and did it slowly. These demons should not be allowed to live among humans.
True. They stress you, sleep deprivation, chaos in your life then messes with you balance system. Then they deplete your cortisol then that blows off your body regulation system then your internal organs start to struggle then you hormones then your entire body will become sick and you will get so sick you will die. Stress is number one killer for a reason. These people bring stress 500 billion times the normal. Your happiness is diminished. Your peace is gone you won't be able to get it back. Your brain chemistry becomes unbalanced. They literally will drain the life out of you. HOW CAN YOU MISS THAT? HOW CAN YOU LOVE THAT? HOW CAN YOU MISS SOMEONE SO EVIL?
My youngest adult daughter is an evil narcissist. She stressed out my husband, her father, so bad that he started crying uncontrollably and asking what he did wrong, raising her, over and over, then he collapsed and took his last breath. He died of a broken heart. I blame her for his death. I went no contact with her. It's been 4 and a half years, and I have been destroyed beyond repair. Living a horrible nightmare. I struggle with the same thoughts. She plays the victim and has me as the bad person. All my family and friends have abandoned me, including our oldest daughter. I don't know what I did wrong raising her. It must have been my fault somehow. So, I am being punished to live a life of misery. So confused 😕 I know I am a good person. Everyone always came first before me. I was the one who went without, either it be food, clothes or whatever they needed.
What you said, is so true. I was going through that horrendous imbalance and the only answer to help me was, " leave the relationship " because it isn't getting better....it's getting worse. " The relationship lasted 18 months but one more year would of killed me from stress. No joke. It's been 3 weeks no contact. I wonder if I'll ever feel normal again? My chest pains went away, and I'm happy I have more freetime but my self esteem needs work.
@@terrydyer2490 dear Terry. She is resposibile for your beloved husband death. If you went to contact and she turned all the family against you it only shows how evil she is. I cannot imagine situation like this. Ever. Fill yourself woth joy. Protect yourself . Try maybe speaking with eldest daughter or leave them . If you know you were good stay at that. They are not worth it. Look what she did to her dad. Stop feeling guilty and let her go
I agree with you completely. I’ve been married to a covert narcissist for 40 years and now he’s become grandiose cruel and pretty much completely insane at age 57. I’m divorcing him
Congratulations on your decision. Been 20 something years free of my mama's boy. If I may make a recommendation, get trauma based therapy asap. You could have a delayed reaction to the grief years later. I hid mines problem for him long enough, but no more. I'm still reeling from a family who hid the severity of an adopted child with severe mental problems as a child. The consequences I'm still seeing today. Mental disorders are serious business for mentally healthy people... Great luck and never forget to be kind only to yourself for however long it takes to protect your mental health. They don't have that and they can't have yours or borrow it any more.
The difference is the intention, the whole focus of a covern narcissist is YOU, while the avoidant per se is die to their fear of independence. However, the effect is the same, it will profoundly hurt your self-esteem to be around them. I've been with both, and I can tell you one is a monster and the other just has tunnel vision.
@@fabiocosta3306don’t use the word monster lightly! Avoidant’s are in survival mode all the time. If you can’t deal with them that is your own personal problem, but they are not monsters. Intention matters. They do not want to hurt you. Narcissists do. People with NPD find a role for you in their life and they will lock you there and destroy you. Whatever they do, they are going to destroy you. They want to hurt you, they enjoy hurting you, they are incapable of loving you and they hate you and themselves. Narcissists are beyond monsters, they are evil. Avoidants might love you, but they simply speak a different language than you due to past trauma.
It’s almost like it’s too late, because once you figure all these things out, you’re already involved. I wish there were signs so that I wouldn’t get involved. I’m still enduring a year-long smear campaign from the last one who just won’t relent.
I agree with your perspective that coverts are simply the same thing as an overt, just better at hiding. However, i would like to add, based on my extensive experience with coverts (sadly for me), that the main reason they "hide" is because they think they can't get away with being overt. Yes, stressors of life can cause their mask to drop, but also being successful in life will cause them to feel that they can get away with grandiosity, and they will be thrilled to expand into that. If they feel they have gained enough social capitol of some kind (money, looks, social position, etc..) then they will feel emboldened to let their freak flag fly.
But isn't it normal to feel more confident (and even assertive) when things are going well in your life? Isn't it also normal to feel insecure when things are not going well? Is it just the severity of the confidence/assertiveness (ie. "grandiosity") that marks the difference between normal human behavior and narc behavior?
@@johnny4062 Well, being confident and being grandiose are not the same thing. But, I think it 's true that when things are going well for someone, and they feel more confident, then they are more likely to display who they really are. In the case of narcissists, this means you will more clearly see the narcissistic traits.
I recently had the experience of discovering a longtime friend is a covert narcissist. The way i found out was when some positive things happened in my life and even though she always said her life is great she was so triggered by my good fortune her mask slipped and she did everything to attack, mock, and install doubt anything to steal any joy away. She also responded with self pitying cries of how hard her life is in response to my good news - that response was so weird to me. The fact she didn't want me to be happy. She had everyone including me for a long time thinking she is a saint with empathy always on show. Yet subtly (esp after the love bombing of the friendship) she would mock me, tell me sob stories every tine how others were so mean and she was good and ignore or minimise any accomplishments I had. It's so fucking devious.
I agree. The only way to hear the truth from a narc is to stick around long enough and they tell on themselves. The are hypocritical and walking contradictions.
And victims use the NPD label to rise above their ex or colse one even if "narcissist" is not the right one. Others agree that the NPD, who is not an NPD, lies as if they agreed that the sky is yellow because they are wearing the same glasses. They use the label by convenience . Talking down on anybody happens on NPD abuse channels.
I need advice from an unbiased source. I've been avoiding this girl who's obviously interested in me for months now. On a good day, I'm brave enough to show her some attention and affection, and she loves it. I love it too, and we both have great back and forth banter and chat. But right as we're getting closer, I get insecure and pull away. I dont know how to take things a step further. It hurts her, the disappointment in her eyes.. On bad days, I usually dodge her because if I do try to talk to her, I don't think it would go well. You feel insecure, and it will show through via your body language, and it'll just be a turn-off unpleasant for both sides. Those bad days hurt her, I can tell, and it's not something I want for her. I feel like a total jerk. How do you express something like this without looking needy or manipulative? She's a wonderful girl, and she deserves more attention that I so desperately want to give her... Both my parents are extremely narcissistic manchildren who have always been cold, viscious, and callous towards me even at my most vulnerable moments. To give you an example, my mom kicked me out of the car on my 16th birthday and left me on the side of the road. My dad yelled at me and said I brought it on myself."" My sister was just about to burst into tears as they drove off to go spend some family time at the lake. These kinds of things have happened consistently before. Viscious unfair and callous treatment from my mom while my dad does nothing to help and instead blames me. She's touched me inappropriately before but not enough to leave and injuries. I'm convinced that if self-preservation wasn't on her list of priorities, she had beat me when I was little. All of this is true, but am I saying this just to guilt trip? To get my way so I can justify the mistreatment of this girl I like? Am I the narcissist, or am I the avoidant? I don't know what to do... This girl deserves better than me and what ive been offering her. Knowing this eats my soul and makes it even harder to connect with anyone. The worst part is I dodge people all the time, and they think I'm stuck up. Like, I think I'm too good for them when, in reality, it's because I feel like I'm not good enough for anyone. What the hell do I do? Sometimes, I wonder if this nightmare will ever end😮💨
In a teen friendship situation, a covert narcissistic destroys their 'friend'. Hurts them directly thru lies, but also all the flying monkeys they garner and character assassination they employ.
UA-camr heal NPD did a great video on this very subject. He said all narcs have grandiosity and vulnerability. Covert narcs have overt vulnerability that masks covert grandiosity, and overt narcs have overt grandiosity that masks covert vulnerability. He used quadrant system instead of a linear continuum too. But I think you’re right about all this.
Overts and Coverts are narcissists who were traumatised at a different age. I much prefer Overts to their stealth version with the crocodile tears. You can deal with Overts, but not with Coverts.
Coverts are the worst, literally nobody believes you if you speak out. If you speak it backfires on you. I remained silent for years because, everyone I know was contaminated with the lies of the covert narcissist. I went no contact without knowing I was dealing with narcissists. Still I am an outcast but I got my freedom, don’t care if the whole world is against me, as long as I got my sanity and God.
I don't have to watch this video to know the answer to this question, which is no. Not all avoidants are narcissists. Having an avoidant attachment style doesn't necessarily make one a liar, a gaslighter, manipulative, controlling, lacking in empathy, and/or grandiose.
Where did you read that we were all of the above? All the traits you mentioned are found in sociopaths not NPDs. See my long comment and please find the dsm V-TR and check section III. We have empathy again..
@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye actually, I have read the DSM 5 for NPD, and the traits I listed often go hand in hand with NPD, especially the grandiose one. The rest of your comment doesn't make any sense to me. I didn't bother to watch the video because I already knew the answer to the question on its title, which was, "Are all avoidants covert narcissists?" The answer is no. There is a big difference between having an avoidant attachment style and having NPD, which was the point I was trying to make. I think you must have misunderstood my comment.
@@kimberlyhovis5864 Well actually studies show similar résistance to treatment. I don't personally care. I find this craze - which is mostly American anriously worrying. Looks like Americans don't see humans anymore. The DSM is approximative at best. The labels' names, descriptors and classification are inconsistent at best. The problem comes from experts unable to coopérateurs even within the same school of thought. The most common form and most studied one, the vulnerable type is simply mentionned. It would be a Kurt Cobain. The one who thrones at the center, is unlikely to come close to the vulnerable type. He is really a grandiose sociopath. He is a relic still in place because Kernberg believes ASPD is on the same spectrum as NPD which he should know is impossible.. The real grandiose is a vulnerable woith a more visible grandiose self. Cf Ettensohn Heal NPD channel. Anyway even the arrogant NPD guy doesn't match your description. Find DSM5- TR online and check the new dimensional approach in section IiI NPD is still a mix of NPD and ASPD but a more realistic han the category-based one. I am not sure why you should use this superior tone and BS while contributing to vilify a label which in itself is irresponsible. I am not here to defend myself. I have zero interest in doing so. I know who I am.
@kimberlyhovis5864 @kimberlyhovis5864 Well actually studies show similar résistance to treatment. I don't personally care. I find this craze - which is mostly American and Brit. unhealthy. The DSM is approximative at best. The labels' names, descriptors and classification are inconsistent at best. The problem comes from experts unable to coopérateurs even within the same school of thought. The most common form and most studied one, the vulnerable type is just mentionned. It would be a Kurt Cobain. The one who trônes at the center, is unlikely to come close to the vulnerable type. He is really a grandiose sociopath. He is a relic. The real grandiose is a vulnerable woith à more visible grandiose self. Cf Ettensohn Heal NPD channel. Anyway even the arrogant NPD guy -who iss really a sociopat- desn't match your crieria Vulnerable NPD is b
@@kimberlyhovis5864I disagree. It’s really simple to just tell somebody you are not interested instead of creating a cycle of abuse which avoidance and narcissist to. They are pretty much the same.
I was married to a covert narcissist for 20 years. It was a slow death of my soul and what is left of it has become avoidant. Covert narcissists has killing you mentally a prioritized goal, and they will make it, given enough time.
My exes need for admiration is something im wrapping my head around a year later. He was so subtle at first, the love bombing was so intense and addictive... but then the demands for admiration whilst belittling my needs. I once told him that i like it when I am greeted after getting home from work by him looking up from his phone, standing up and acknowledging that i am back. Well, didn't that give him the ammunition to tear me down!! Forever after that, he had a line about me "expecting him to drop everything and stand up like the Queen had entered the room" that he said with such contempt!! He was selfish, cruel, saddistic... yet it was always a requirement for me to admire him and praise him and give endlessly to him from my ow resources, no matter how depleted i was. Every aspect of a true narcissist that can be mentioned, i have examples of what thelat looks like from that relationship now. And every horrible symptom of the aftermath is something i have now experienced. I hope he lives the rest of his miserable days single and dies alone. Not because i am cruel, but because i know he won't change and i don't want anyone else to suffer at his hands.
It took me til I was 30 to really realize why I felt so off as a kid growing up. It was bc my mom and brother are covert narcissists and my dad enables them, not to mention other relatives that were narcissists as well like my grandparents who would walk all over our family, taking advantage of my parents' compassion. This is why when you cross me, its no more Mr. Nice Guy. I dont play the "oh well they're family" game...thats a great way to let people ruin your life using excuses like that
I think that's why new ones get away with it. It's like a bad habit to put up with bad behavior. I would completely disassociate then ignore the whole event.
I need advice from an unbiased source. I've been avoiding this girl who's obviously interested in me for months now. On a good day, I'm brave enough to show her some attention and affection, and she loves it. I love it too, and we both have great back and forth banter and chat. But right as we're getting closer, I get insecure and pull away. I dont know how to take things a step further. It hurts her, the disappointment in her eyes.. On bad days, I usually dodge her because if I do try to talk to her, I don't think it would go well. You feel insecure, and it will show through via your body language, and it'll just be a turn-off unpleasant for both sides. Those bad days hurt her, I can tell, and it's not something I want for her. I feel like a total jerk. How do you express something like this without looking needy or manipulative? She's a wonderful girl, and she deserves more attention that I so desperately want to give her... Both my parents are extremely narcissistic manchildren who have always been cold, viscious, and callous towards me even at my most vulnerable moments. To give you an example, my mom kicked me out of the car on my 16th birthday and left me on the side of the road. My dad yelled at me and said I brought it on myself."" My sister was just about to burst into tears as they drove off to go spend some family time at the lake. These kinds of things have happened consistently before. Viscious unfair and callous treatment from my mom while my dad does nothing to help and instead blames me. She's touched me inappropriately before but not enough to leave any injuries. I'm convinced that if self-preservation wasn't on her list of priorities, she had beat me when I was little. All of this is true, but am I saying this just to guilt trip? To get my way so I can justify the mistreatment of this girl I like? Am I the narcissist, or am I the avoidant? I don't know what to do... This girl deserves better than me and what ive been offering her. Knowing this eats my soul and makes it even harder to connect with anyone. The worst part is I dodge people all the time, and they think I'm stuck up. Like, I think I'm too good for them when, in reality, it's because I feel like I'm not good enough for anyone. What the hell do I do? Sometimes, I wonder if this nightmare will ever end😮💨
@@janesheridan7967"You need to learn to get along with all types of people." Is what my grandparents would always say. "Even the abusive ones." was silent🤷♂️
I agree. It's never useful to generalize. I had disorganized attachment from childhood trauma. That style includes an avoidant side at war with an anxious side. I'm not a narcissist of any kind.
@@weaviejeebies yea. I'm an effect of being raised by covert narcissist mother, having bpd, which bpd usually has anxious or disorganized attachment. The title is a bit confusing.
The Easy Tells: - They will guilt trip you - it's a form of abuse and they are the victim. - EVERY PROBLEM is your fault - They are entitled to demand from you but they don't return the favours. - They forget all of the bad things they did - They tell everyone how bad you are and what a victim they are - They say hurtful things without ANY remorse. A healthy person tries to be sensitive out of human compassion
This spectrum view is accurate. I would go so far as to say they shift depending on who they are interacting with. They find, when dealing with someone like myself, that they have a false sense of Power and Safety. That is how I have made them back down throughout my long life. They have simply forgotten that they can be victims too. Authenticity is like mosquito repellant to them... Especially an authentic person who will "nail them to the wall" for a lack of better phrase. Authenticity is the only true Power, so don't be afraid to be yourself. And understand, this is a life long struggle because they are everywhere.
I don’t tolerate their BS anymore; am the truth teller. If they want to rage, have a temper tantrum or whatever that’s fine by me. Of course I make sure I’m safe!
@@Victoria-c4n agree, but the grandiose I knew was also a trained s n i p e r, and equipped accordingly, so the slow fade and eventual cutting of contact seemed wise
Once they have new supply.. even if not romantic but when they gain another friend, they will backstab you. Once they gain confidence not shown much before, they will show their true face, the mask will drop & they can be rude to you, acting unaware they are doing this. Like childish behavior.
Yup! Anyone or anything that he/she deems replaceable to you will cause their mask to drop. Then all of a sudden you’re being devalued. With the covert they keep all the conversations and interactions the same, but slowly take away the emotional connection and mental effort that was originally there. Distancing themselves before the actual discard phase. This is where they begin “reconnecting with family” and “long lost friends” in an attempt to smooth over their support system. It only works because we did not expect these people existed, and family/friends will always side with the narcissist anyway-no matter what.
You are one of the few people who are honest about the consequences of a toxic person or a narcissist with regard to the title of this video! Thank you!!!
It took 20yrs for me to see her ‘death stare’. Then I saw it the following week as her mask fell off. Always had that unsettling off feeling around her and couldn’t put my finger on it. She used to switch from vulnerable to overt but mostly vulnerable.
From my experience (I’ve only been involved with one true covert narc), they will show their grandiosity through belittling you. The content of their criticism will show you how highly they perceive themselves. For example, one time I told my ex we should get into the gym; his response, “if I got back into the gym, you would lose me so fast.” And for context, this statement was right after he hoovered me back into his life with repeated calls/apologies/gifts. This is just one of hundreds of examples. But I saw his grandiosity in the way he belittled me. That along with the serial cheating, gaslighting, giving me an sti, finding way to destroy my career, the list goes on. They are absolute monsters. Their avoidant behaviors have a deeper sadistic intention, unlike regular avoidants who just have tunnel vision.
Spot on! Our son is marrying a narcissist. We tried to warn him. He cut us out of our lives because we said no to his fiance after she demanded more money from us towards the wedding. We seriously had already given them $5000 towards rehearsal dinner, which I thought was generous. Apparently not to her. As soon as we said no, she destroyed our relationship with our son. Now he won’t speak to us. I grieve for him and for the abuse he will have to go through.
@@Sticktothegospel I'm so sorry. My son married one too. What did I say no on? Nothing, but I got upset at one of their rules. Apparently I'd 'offended' her for years and yet we hardly spoke and I didn't know about it. The last straw was after they had a baby and were using it as leverage for me to cooperate on things. "If you don't do x,y,z, you can't see the baby." I pushed back at the way he was using it, and presto. I haven't seen the baby in 4 years, and wasn't told about the new one. My son talks to me all the time but I'm not allowed in their lives anymore. They moved 5 hours away to be near her family.
@@cyndimoring9389 I’m in the same boat. She’s already made comments that when they have children they have concerns about me being around the children. It’s a total set up. I can see it. The weird thing is I did nothing wrong to her. Last time I spoke to my son he said I needed to apologize to her for never making her feel welcome or accepted. That is false. I did love her but apparently setting a boundary is unacceptable to her. I can’t change how she feels. That’s on her. What I can change is to not be abused by her. And going no contact seems to be the only choice. I pray my son wakes up to the truth. I never wanted things to get ugly but I feel I was up against a no win situation
@@Sticktothegospel yes, the 'apology' thing had been happening for years with my son's dad.I should have seen it coming. And when I was told to apologize for the multiple things on her list the apologies weren't good enough. She said the same, I couldn't be around her children. she's always been extremely jealous and suspicious of my son so of course any other woman he loves needs to get away. And if her children loved me she'd be stuck with me. I think it's about isolation. She also doesn't trust my son to go to weddings alone. lol. But the no contact has really hurt my feelings so much. I'd never have done that to my husband's family members, no matter how weird they were.
@@cyndimoring9389 Same. Real unconditional love means accepting people imperfections and all. I wasn’t bothered by her imperfections and loved her the way she was. Did I feel she was a bit high maintenance? Sure. But I kept myself out of it. It was my son’s relationship. Not mine. I kept telling them I didn’t feel I was losing a son to marriage, but rather gaining a daughter. But I’m not sure why I was suddenly vilified by her. It sure hurts but I’m at peace knowing I did try.
Another thing …. Under narcissistic abuse … the abuser makes it all seems normal, or they outright tell you not to open your mouth… parents can be narcissists and they can also use the Bible against the victim stating that they have the right to abuse you cause they are parents …. Then the victim won’t say anything and thinks it’s normal
Yes. That was my childhood. I’m grateful to God for my sister who figured it out and brought it to life for me. God led us to a psychologist that helped us. We learned to resist mom’s tricks. Within a few years she died a sudden and baffling death. Swallowing issues led to pneumonia, and within 3 weeks she was gone bc there’s no way to revive the swallow muscle once it’s lost. Yes, believe it or not. Metaphoric isn’t it?
I dont think the Bible says its okay to abuse your kids. Spare the rod spoil the child means its the parents responsibility to guide them, not beat them. Correction is needed but not at the end of a stick. Meanings of words have been changed and lost. Getting comfort from Gods rod and staff should clue people in. They mran guidance and protection like a shepherd guiding and protecting their flock. Parents should view their family/offspring like their flock.
Everyone I don't like is a narcissist. And everyone who endlessly talks about themselves because they want to portray themselves as victims of a narcissist is an empath.
Had an overt for 14 years there was no guessing except what might happen moment to moment.Escaped with my children. Then had a wonderful man for 14 years who passed away fro mancer waited 7 years didnt date at all and allowed myself to be taken in by the one im with now. He is mostly quiet but see its to gather info to use or twist later.Seemed at first to have good values, humble and kind was definately a fast moving love bomber .Now at 3 year mark and wow ! Lies about past conversations lies about some people to other people,lies about accomplishments .Saus things i had no idea he thought and its scary. The way he walks you can see he feels superior over every other person never seems to think hes inferior not humble at all yet 1st to say he is . If someone calls him out he is quietly enraged and lies his way out of what they say happened. I dont argue or try to talk about things anymore as how can you with someone who can look you in the eye and change a whole conversation. It would be pointless to keep trying Have had a few things happen lately that could have ended in a bad accident for me or worse and thought WOW that was so on purpose and if anything happens to me everyone will think hes wonderful for paying for a funeral lol and feel bad for him 😮Best apologie ever was im sorry you feel that way . I explained it to my friend like this : He could push me off a cliff and when im falling with a hurt heart , asking whyyyy? Why would you push someone you claim to love? He would say with a smirk on his face, Whaaat ! I would never push anybody and add im sorry you "feel like" you are falling. Then run to to the bottom give me a fake hug and say sweetly, We are ok, you're an emotional mess babe, thats enough of that to dismiss it all. And all i can say is i knew it was off ! I could feel it to the bone but i was foolish and ran with what i thought could possibly have a happy ending. Lol NOT !!! I didnt even know what narcassism was until i started trying to figure this guy out. Prayers for wisdom strength and courage for everyone here on their own search !
4:55 - 7:55 is describing a sociopath. and there are sociopathic elements to narcissism. They are always on top, ahead of the game, never loose, and never have to admit to being wrong because....wait for it....they are never wrong.
So do they have to be wrong? Where does self love stop and narcissism start. Where does narcissim stop and truly being better begin? It just seems like narcissm research is very difficult to implement into your life.
💯 Integrity. Super simple test. Edit: There was a point I knowingly interacted with legit narcissists (or, at least, highly covert and malignant people) in order to better understand both them and myself. It was an expensive but exceptionally valuable lesson. In view of long-term risk/reward I don't regret it. But I wouldn't do it twice. Lol
Great topic and video, here's my feedback. [1] Yes the covert narc is extremely difficult to spot. But one of the best ways to get an indication is to look at their whole family, or their group of friends. You have to see them in these other environments, and it would help if you can see them when they're not aware that you can see them. If there are signs of Cluster-B among these people (especially family), then you might start wondering about covert narcissism. Typically, they are impossible to detect without long term observation, but the presence of Cluster-B people in their orbit is a Clue, and it's JUST a clue. [2] Covert narcs DO frequently expose themselves kind of like a hermit crab. They use dog whistles and then quickly retreat into their shell and go back to the fake niceness. They do cruel things randomly and then quickly retreat into their shell of fake niceness. They do this shit repeatedly, like a Broken Record ... wash/rinse/repeat. It will affect you just like Chinese Water Torture. And that is the best way to explain it. [3] The covert narc is almost impossible to spot, they are invisible most of the time. Really the only way to get a glimpse is to look at the people who are in direct contact with this person for a long time ... and see if any of them are being dog whistled etc. People who are in the orbit of the covert narc will know that the covert narc is "sometimes a genuine jerk', and this is because they are like Hermit Crabs. Hope that helps. [4] If this person seems like they have two (slightly) different personalities, one personality which they privately share with you, and a slightly different personality when in a group of others ... that would be a Clue, and ONLY a clue. They are typically almost impossible to detect in conversation until they start in with the abuse, and then they are highly visible whenever they come out of that Hermit Crab shell and they are not nice. They can be rude, abusive, nagging, and/or deliberately stupid. And they do those things repeatedly, like a junkie, because they seek narc supply. Hope that helps.
I need advice from an unbiased source. I've been avoiding this girl who's obviously interested in me for months now. On a good day, I'm brave enough to show her some attention and affection, and she loves it. I love it too, and we both have great back and forth banter and chat. But right as we're getting closer, I get insecure and pull away. I dont know how to take things a step further. It hurts her, the disappointment in her eyes.. On bad days, I usually dodge her because if I do try to talk to her, I don't think it would go well. You feel insecure, and it will show through via your body language, and it'll just be a turn-off unpleasant for both sides. Those bad days hurt her, I can tell, and it's not something I want for her. I feel like a total jerk. How do you express something like this without looking needy or manipulative? She's a wonderful girl, and she deserves more attention that I so desperately want to give her... Both my parents are extremely narcissistic manchildren who have always been cold, viscious, and callous towards me even at my most vulnerable moments. To give you an example, my mom kicked me out of the car on my 16th birthday and left me on the side of the road. My dad yelled at me and said I brought it on myself."" My sister was just about to burst into tears as they drove off to go spend some family time at the lake. These kinds of things have happened consistently before. Viscious unfair and callous treatment from my mom while my dad does nothing to help and instead blames me. She's touched me inappropriately before but not enough to leave any injuries. I'm convinced that if self-preservation wasn't on her list of priorities, she had beat me when I was little. All of this is true, but am I saying this just to guilt trip? To get my way so I can justify the mistreatment of this girl I like? Am I the narcissist, or am I the avoidant? I don't know what to do... This girl deserves better than me and what ive been offering her. Knowing this eats my soul and makes it even harder to connect with anyone. The worst part is I dodge people all the time, and they think I'm stuck up. Like, I think I'm too good for them when, in reality, it's because I feel like I'm not good enough for anyone. What the hell do I do? Sometimes, I wonder if this nightmare will ever end😮💨
The people who have close relationships with them will know best, and probably appear 'different' but will be the scapegoat for their stuff as they deflect truth and blame shift. My personal truth sadly. The vicious lies were the worst. Excellent coverage on a difficult to detect thing. 😎🌟 They drain the life outta you! You'll know when you know. Run!😅
I only realized that there was an issue after it was too late. And I only learned what a covert narcissist is YEARS after going no contact… Your content is spot on! 👍🏻
The best way to spot a narcissist is if they lie a lot and if they are “contrarian” a lot. They don’t like solutions or collaboration with others toward peace, and they want others to be either confused or in their control. This has to be a large pattern, not only 1 or 2 occasions. Anyone doing this as a pattern in any way is not a healthy person to be around.
I have specialized in narc abuse since 2008. Your information based on putting thE research together with incredible visuals is the best out there. You really get it. The DSM is always too far behind and limiting this diagnosis
I think you should do more videos like these. It's more healing and educational to people that may have forgotten about their own welfare and mental health trying so hard to "get their ex back." I've come to realize that the right person wouldn't have chosen to leave, unless of course YOU yourself are the abuser. Otherwise, no matter what, the behavior that is displayed post break-up by someone avoidant or narcissistic can be extremely damaging and not representative of love or compassion.
The behavior post breakup / divorce / discard gives you everything you need to know about who they really are and what they are. They will be cruel, controlling, manipulative and will try different strategies to see how they can regain control over you. If you go no contact - they will hate it and become vindictive towards you. This is a key sign you are dealing with a narcissist. A healthy person will respect your space and wish to heal.
Dude, playing on people's feelings of perpetual victimisation is exactly what attachment theory should NOT be used for. Same goes for assigning people to fixed identities. You have no understanding of the theory you are pretending to explain. If anyone is even asking themselves the kind of questions about their partners that you claim to answer, they are almost certainly deeply insecure and need to look at themselves.
my highschool sweetheart and fiance of 20 years is a covert narc. no one chooses to stay with a narc after figuring it out, they stay quiet till finding the way out, then they go no contact. It then becomes a subject you are unlikely to share due to fear of attracting more of the same.
"no one chooses to stay with a narc after figuring it out," Oh you'd be surprised on that one. That literally happens all the time. And even once you leave them the siren's call remains sometimes.
I thought my guy was such a good listener. What he was doing is recording my stories, especially what would make me unhappy, or my triggers. He then knew exactly and covertly he could double down.
Scapegoating abuse, and the physiological side effects, can go as far as how DNA is read and coded. Along with the more traditionally described issues (like endocrine/hormone malfunction and or chronic disregulation). But think about that… “how DNA is read and coded”… this is pretty major league and it’s been flying under the radar for a very long time…
This is so spot on bro. They flip flop bc there’s nothing real underneath it all. Another way of seeing it is with attachment theory, anxious flips to avoidant and vice versa. Fight or flight as well
I used to have an anxious attachment style when I was younger but after 15 years in a relationship with my ex wife who definitely had Borderline Personality Disorder and was definitely avoidant in her attachment style. She was also a covert narcissist thanks to her upbringing, her parents and grandparents. After a decade of abuse and then the pain of divorce have caused me to have an avoidant attachment style that I have to remain conscious of in order not to hurt my partner.
@@adammcgill9844 I just got out of 2 years with someone exactly like that. They can try and take you off track but we can rise above it and be secure in our attachment styles. Secure attachment leads to healthy relationships
I saw the narcassist Devil within me at a very young age being brought up in a narcassist family. HELL!!!! Hard work on self. The more I dealt with my demons and the devil the more I my soul felt freedom. Cautious behaviour and being true to others as well myself.
Recognize it: "I'm the best at the whole office!" Truth: They wanted to fire him but couldnt due to the protection of the contract. When I contacted his workplace to tell them he worked high on drugs, they asked me "Why didnt you call us earlier?" They were desperate for a reason to unemploy him. He told me later his boss had even driven him to the psych ward once. That he had come forward and asked "How are you today, X? I can see it's not so well.." And then drove him to the psych ER. So he's not the great asset to them he told me, he's a burden they want to rid. And this is a boss he had called a p*ssy and "to weak to lead" I think that boss sounded very very empathic and kind. Just the type who should be a boss. Also the part of "You know something is wrong, they act robotic, but you dont know what" Thats EXACTLY so. His own mother said that "We believe you and we know something is wrong but not what" I had that exact same impression, something was very wrong but I didt know what, could NOT pinpoint it. Well turns out he had schizophrenia, avoidant personality and covert narcissism. Diagnosed by me, the psychward just put "toxic psychosis" (Psychosis due to drugs) And put him on antidepressants, sedatives, sleeping pills and neuroleptika. He gained maybe 30kilos in 6 months so the next time he rang my door, he looked like a piffer fish. Still does last time I unfortunally saw him.
Ouch. The employment scenario and his description of it sounds familiar. Can't speak to the drugs part, though I will say that he probably needs to be on something. 😂😢😮
My ex best childhood friend already formed narcissistic personality disorder when she was in her early teens. I remember her telling me more than a couple of times: "the trick is to lie so well, that you even starting to believe it. Believe it first and then start lying- it always worked for me." And these were just cases when she had to lie to her parents in order for us to sneak out the house to attend parties. When we grew up I hurtfully had to realize that she is not good for me, she hurt, lied and betrayed me and my trust. It so sad to see a once healthy person turn into something like this.
Initially, for a narcissist image is everything. They will blend in and have a knack for trends and becoming appealing to others by applying those trends in their interactions. Narcissists will see themselves as elevated above others. They are boss and that is how they roll. They will exude an image of strength, intellectual and moral superiority. Moral code is high on their agenda as it is instrumental to becoming more appealing to others. But after some time it becomes clearer that they cannot live up to the values they preach, since their morals are just an instrument for personal appeal. As they 'outrank' others they make the rules and are also judgmental, but it is likely that they won't abide by their own rules themselves. Or alternatively, they abide by their own rules because those have become a status symbol of their dominance over others. I think this is one of the pivotal issues with narcissists: the difference in rank, the boss dictates the moral code, and has a judgmental attitude toward others while ignoring their own set of rules, because they are above their own law. "Do as I say but don't do as I do." Or alternatively: you follow the moral code, because everybody follows the moral code, I do as well. But of course not telling where that moral code comes from. Parents with this attitude toward their children will be authoritarian and disciplinarian. Even though they might give much material or financial support, they won't provide much personal validation or won't leave enough room for personal development. As a matter of fact, they wouldn't care less, as long as the troubles they might have caused do not come around to bite them.
So true...I've got Clinical Depression and my Ex Narcissist has made me worse...feeling like i want to disappear or do something that is not a very good to do to myself.😪
I am just blown away about all the narcissist information out there. For a while I heard "narcissist this and that" but always remembered the definition of one is a person who is basically in love with themselves. I dated a man for 2 years and when he broke up with me I was devastated and totally confused as to what was happening. All I did was ruminate and going crazy trying to figure things out. One day I googled a phrase he would say to me and loads of stuff popped up about all of this narcissist stuff. I started watching umpteen videos about narcs and everything that was said matched with this guy perfectly and things started to make sense. But more and more videos are coming out different names, criteria, labels, etc. that are mind blowing and I think is well above and beyond what the simple definition of the word narcissist means. Are things being blown out of proportion now? It just seems like every psych disorder is now being bundled under narcissism and has moved way away from the initial definition. I think it is getting out of hand now.
Yes the “off” feeling…that explains it perfectly. It’s been enough to make me second guess everything. Making me wonder if this weird vibe is just me dealing with my own distrust and ptsd from post narc relationship. I’ve started evaluating the overall relationship since we’ve been friends for years so I weigh out the relationship if I put our friendship on the justice scales how would it balance out regarding give and take…that’s been the eye opener for me. Not just throwing around the “narc” term. I started counseling because I didn’t know what was wrong with me but I had completely disassociated emotionally from everything and everyone and made excuses for my ex to my counselor that I believed.
Wow. That is so interesting. I'm going through the same word for word. Broke down in therapy today because my relationship ended by my own hand. It wasn't pretty but I'm regretful of my bad behavior towards her. I got triggered so many times it created a RIFF in my soul and I lashed out many times. My counsel said I need to practice impulse control. Being gas lighted, blame shifted and guilt tripped so many times I lost my ability to stay calm. The relationship affected me negativity. I'm ashamed and regretful. One bad behavior doesn't deserve another.
@@jenlazeeare you just describing your profile picture? Jokes aside, you are spot on. Once you saw that very specific smirk you can detect other narcissists much more easily. They are the same beast, different flavor, but they are all the same food type.
@@roberth4395 LoL! You are so right about the profile picture. I didn't think of that. The thing is that if you hang around narcissists long enough, you start emulating some of their traits. I think that's what I'm doing here. 🙃 Hopefully you don't see shark eyes but I do have a smirk!
I’ve lived with and CAREFULLY observed narcissistic. From roommates to girlfriends. I see their “Reality” so clearly. I read them like a book. It truly is insane it be a legitimate narcissistic. Great video… You seem to know it well..
I discovered my brother-in-law is a covert narcissist, my sister, likely an avoidant vulnerable, my father likely borderline or NPD, who spent 35 years gaslighting, smearing and splitting. It contributed to my downfall from being a successful model/actor (the audacity!!) to being on food stamps. Only then, were they satisfied. Still, in the end, because of my determination to be enlightened, they've been revealed for who they are. At 60, I am free, and they are isolated and miserable.
Sometimes a person becomes avoidant when they have endured so much abuse and emotional volatility that they shut down. Is that narcissistic? Well color me a dark triad… this is the next fad and it is the means by which ALL men raised in trad roles who have been beaten into stoicism will now all be branded narcissistic- bravo!
"Sometimes a person becomes avoidant when they have endured so much abuse and emotional volatility that they shut down. Is that narcissistic? Well color me a dark triad… this is the next fad and it is the means by which ALL men raised in trad roles who have been beaten into stoicism will now all be branded narcissistic" You are absolutely correct. And I would add narcissism as reaction to narcissism is High Autism Spectrum. We heal injury and trauma by treating our injured parts inside us as if they are autistic, allowing them to be and helping them to integrate into society without changing them fundamentally or disciplining them or shaming them. Any attempt to color and refuse reality is narcissism. Avoidance is refusal of reality - we refuse to accept that the world is unsafe and unjust filled with injustice. This is the definition of autism spectrum, after trauma parts of ourselves are stuck in autism spectrum - which CBT will misdiagnose and mislabel, while stoicism will try to ashame it and force it onto action - that only ends up as autistic burnout, autistic shutdown and autistic meltdown. CBT is not explaining this because we are much more profitable when we have no idea what is happening and when we need to throw our money to pharma mafia who will gladly keep us under the veil of deceit and permanent misdiagnosis.
@@ranc1977sorry, but I am having a hard time following what you are saying. Are you saying that the reaction to narcissism of avoidance/picking up “narcissistic fleas” is an autism spectrum trait, or are you saying that parts of someone essentially becomes autistic after narcissistic abuse? I’m pretty sure you’re talking about C-PTSD, which shares A LOT of traits with autism, to the point where if you have one of these as a diagnosis, you won’t even be tested for the other. Edited for grammar
@@auggiet8380 Sam Vaknin equates autism with narcissism. I would agree with him. Narcissism comes in spectrum, just like autism, too. Anyone who grew up with parent who was undiagnosed untreated Aspergers will develop symptoms identical to autism - when triggered. We are slowly moving towards the Unity where all symptoms will stem down to invalidation - which exacerbates any kind of condition related to mental health.
Chris this is so astute TY👍I value the idea of spectrum. Years ago i anxiously asked my therapist if i was the narcissist. He obviously thought not. Then went on to explain that there is a healthy narcissism, expressed in terms like "self-esteem", or "self-love". I'm poor at that, but there's been some improvement: i sorta tolerate myself. I'm dismayed at how harshly narcissists are condemned in the comments, don't want to believe they lack a soul. Don't want to believe that about my relatives
Just too scary to try and comprehend. My immediate elder sister was mad and wanted me to lay my life down for her just for being born after 6years of being the last born..i came to my full awareness a few weeks ago...i played a few chess,i started to vibrate so positively,she started to pull away ,she didn't know i was aware it was discard time ...she started gave me the silent treatment,one day into it ...i blocked her everywhere. We are just to scared to believe what they show us,cos its family...they actually do show is who they are ....believe them.
I definitely appreciate your efforts as well as so many other channels taking on the challenge of explaining narcissism but I would like to humbly make some suggestions. Learning more about them in an effort to protect yourself and avoid narcissistic people in your life is a great idea and should be done, however, I feel that only helps such a small percentage of people. Not all narcissistic relationships are intimate partners. You can have narcissistic parent(s), sibling(s), boss, friend, coworker, etc. so not all narcissists are you able to simply avoid. For me the biggest focus should be on education and finding resources for survivors/victims of a narcissist. As you mentioned there is a spectrum when it comes to a narcissist but too often people only relate to the semi-problematic narcissist. So when a person has the misfortune to deal with an extremely problematic narcissist like a malignant narcissist they are not heard or believed. Causing more harm, shame and trauma. Also your examples at the beginning of the tell tale signs in my opinion are not good examples. Finding out someone said they drive a Tesla only to find out later they don't or that they claim to do all this volunteer work but actually don't are NOT subtle things that make someone have a gut feeling something is wrong but they can't put their finger on it. There's nothing subtle about those lies. Anyone can tell those kind of lies just to look good on social media. If that was the case 99% of those on social media are narcissist. All the examples you gave don't reflect the true manipulation they are capable of. Also I think the focus is too much on trying to figure out what kind of narcissists you may be dealing with or this idea that they can shift from grandiose to covert and vice versa. Which by the way I completely disagree but that's me. Again we are focusing on the wrong things. Because can you tell the difference between a grandiose narcissist and a jerk? Someone can just be a jerk or a$$hole but that doesn't automatically make them a grandiose narcissist. I think it's too much effort and wasted time trying to label someone the correct term when at the end of the day who the hell cares?? All that matters is that people are hurt and go thru so much mental problems, health problems, etc. from a narcissist and we should focus on them and their recovery. We should focus on recognizing the victims/survivors of narcissists and offering them help than worrying about identifying the narcissist and which category they are from.
The best solution to avoid all undesirables is to simply avoid everybody. The desired company and good people are going to be in the minority anyway. Thus, you will not miss out on the companionship of a lot of good people. However, you will not be within the proximity of the undesirables. The sacrifice of not having good people in your life is offset by not having evil people in your life as well. It is far worth the sacrifice. For every 100 bad people, there is only 1 good person anyway. The odds of coming in contact with a negative person are so high that it does not justify looking for a good person. I have had no friends, no girlfriend, no acquaintances, but also no negative people, in my life since 8 August 2000. It is, worth it.
You are not living life, you are simply floating through it. Quality friends are the true treasures of this world. They are the gift that keeps on giving
@@donsolos Other humans do not define my quality of life. I do not base my life on interpersonal social associations, interactions, nor bonds. There is no way I am going to dredge through 100 people that could do a lot of damage to my existence just to find one good person that would make a good candidate as an amicable or amorous association and bond. It is not worth risking that much damage to my existence to merely find a friend or girlfriend. Deleting the social aspect of my existence was the best thing I have ever done I my life. You have assumed I have had friends and a girlfriend in my past. You are incorrect. I have only had a fake girlfriend and false friends that were being controlled by my fake girlfriend. They took a lot of my belongings and income, and desire for human companionship. The 30th of December 1998 to the 8th of August 2000 at 18:34 were the most emotionally confusing and painful of my existence. It was all due to human companionship, and the ruse of amicable and amorous relationships. I can not detect the difference between someone that may be genuinely interested in me and those that are social predators looking for their next socially inexperienced victim to take all they can. Human companionship will never define the quality of my life again. With no humans in my life I have gained so much. I am far more self-reliant, independent, resourceful, creative, physically healthy, and have more free time than the social humans. My way of life has been completely restructured to exist without amicable nor amorous associations nor interactions. The desire for interpersonal, social, exchanges and associations no longer exists. To be honest, I fear it and feel rather disgusted of the thought of it. Not all people are social nor accepted into human herds nor accepted as worthy companions. I have accepted that is who I am. Now, life is much better and far simpler.
Hi, I’ve read both your original comment & your reply to a person who commented: my reason for replying is I totally understand, I myself am nourished by knowledge, ideas (human via abstracted route : books/web) our wonderful planet/world, nature - most people it appears are ego driven irrational creatures, who have to be the subject - however I exist, & I am sure there must be others, I am extremely benign, contained, non-emotive, serene but positive by nature & caring (although working on being less naive ie I am certainly been used etc) - point is, I exist & more i’s undoubtedly like mine do too, & I hope that whilst like me, you do not need others, that you may be surprised one day or two, & meet another or others, just a few, that welcome you, honour you & would never harm you for a moment.
@@Betulaaah It is doubtless that people, such as the ones you described, exist. However, they are in the extreme minority. In order to maximise the possibility of no interaction with undesirables, I chose to simply avoid interpersonal, social, interactions, and to remain disconnected from others. There is great difficulty in detecting genuinely benign individuals in the vast multitudes of negative people, especially today. The undesirables know how to speak, dress, and act, like the very rare benevolent individuals. With my inability to detect the fakes from the genuine benign people, social isolation is the only method that is safe to employ for avoiding the undesirables.
I'm dismissive avoidant and can be egocentric. Yet I do not identify with narc. I try stay away from such behavior. We instead shield our words, not to cause harm or be harmed. I can be 'attracted' and attract narcs but I can also see them from afar. Usually I want to be a good friend but often my sanity is more important. My advice to them? Don't take yourself too seriously and consider prof help. That, it's often not about you but them and your inability to see that causes havoc.
Same here. Do you find it hard to “love bomb” people? Or do you feel like you want them to give you so much attention and be there even when you are distant and cold? Sometimes I hate to show them that I love them or care about them. So I would reply to their messages after several hours but I try to avoid hurting them
His terminology’s I take lightly. No one source of terms in the topic seems to be sufficient. Just listen to your body….actually listen to your body….LISTEN
This is fascinating. I'm a licensed mental health clinician who was deeply confused by the relationship I was just in. It's like I was with a shell of a person, every now and again they'd reveal another shady piece of the puzzle - they'd deny me time, words of affirmation (they knew it was my love language), acted differently around others and I never had any idea what they were doing when we weren't together. It felt like they were acting, I never felt settled for longer than a short period of time. Ultimately I clipped the relationship off. I realized they were envious of my success and earning power - it's almost like they liked me but didn't. Very bizarre. It's like I've been doing a three year long assessment with intimate access to their inner workings - it's chilling - it's deeply disturbing - I finally pulled out my DSM and realized - YUP. They meet criteria in more ways than not. Gross. RUN PEOPLE RUN RUN RUN
I always say that what an avoidant does is emotional abuse and neglect. They re not better then narcissists or psychopaths. Even from a narcissist you might got more validation then from an avoidant which will cruelly ignore and stonewall you whenever you start to be emotional. And an avoidant can be very well comorbid with narcissism or other PD
Good video, you got the spectrum wrong. It is not covert at one end and overt at the other end. Both are one the same side of the spectrum. The spectrum of narcissism is about being low on traits at one end and high on traits at the other end regardless of the variation of narcissism. Thank you
They can be incredibly cruel and criminal but they rarely get caught. Run, detach, save yourself and your kids if you have any. They will want revenge for things that they feel that have nothing to do with you. 😢❤
Really interesting take on this subject and very relatable. Having been with a female covert as I exerted pressure on her true intentions 9months in those grandiose characteristics started to show. Really enjoyed this video
Yup… everyone that met him taught he was “weird” I called him a robot. A no empathy having ruthless victim. Depending on the situation…it was misery and terrible! 🤯
My family kicked me out over this accusation OF BEING A NARCISSIST all the while trying to be the good guy YET destroying my life for their false perceptions. I stood up to em is all I’m guilty of besides trying valiantly to make a good relationship with my family. They never ever call:( they have no idea my life! I don’t ever care to be affiliated with these monsters in disguise ever again! My authentic self rubbed em raw! I guess I am supposed to act like they want AN EVER REVOLVING DOOR OF HOOPS AND TIGHT ROPES FOR YOU NOT THEM TO NAVIGATE! You never will be acceptable to a monster when you are a human being!
My youngest adult daughter is an evil narcissist. She stressed out my husband, her father, so bad that he started crying uncontrollably and asking what he did wrong, raising her, over and over, then he collapsed and took his last breath. He died of a broken heart. I blame her for his death. I went no contact with her. It's been 4 and a half years, and I have been destroyed beyond repair. Living a horrible nightmare. I struggle with the same thoughts. She plays the victim and has me as the bad person. All my family and friends have abandoned me, including our oldest daughter. I don't know what I did wrong raising her. It must have been my fault somehow. So, I am being punished to live a life of misery. So confused 😕 I know I am a good person. Everyone always came first before me. I was the one who went without, either it be food, clothes or whatever they needed.
We don't know covert Narcissism because we see it as they are Passive-aggressive. We recognize this behavior. But not understanding the broad spectrum of behaviors that fall under it. Hidden abusive tactics.
uncanny valley = The Voight-Kampff test was a test used by the LAPD's Blade Runners to assist in determining whether or not an individual was a replicant.
It’s all true . I am a 44 year old mom of two , recently divorced after 20 years of abuse , culminating with a cervix cancer ( HPV virus) , brought home by my ex . So , yeah , it’s a real danger , believe me ! Bless all you good souls out there !❤
18 years. Just connected the dots last week. I feel shattered and vulnerable. Why didn’t anybody say anything or tell me. 18 years, I trusted him with my life As this week has gone by I have more and more realization and it makes me sick, very intensely. I want to tell the one friend I have left but I’m scared she won’t believe me. Or that no one would believe how bad it was. It was bad guys. And worst of all I was discarded and was on a phenomenal positive trajectory. He hovered (I think is the terminology) and I’m so embarrassed to say I believed his bs and I let him move back into my house. It’s so draining and isolating. Why didn’t I see this.
Who developed the test? This is an important question,and please dont be fooled into thinking that taking one obsecure test is going to furnish you with the gospel on any subject.
If you’re trying to get diagnosed you should always go to a psychologist. A test online isn’t a good indication, I think that was one of Chris’s points on that one.
@@jenniferbyrne4567 agree, even the psychologists have difficulty diagnosing it because they can seem sincere especially if you don't know the person; they're good actors. It's the only clinical condition that makes life and work almost impossible for everyone else around them yet not themselves.
1. Their lies are so effective that they can even fool themselves.
2. How you feel when you are with them. (Or after you have been with them.)
3. Their grandiosity will begin to leak out and be revealed through demonstrations of entitlement, arrogance, admiration seeking, and exploitation of others.
I live in a narcissistic town
Planet...@@dark7angel456
@@dark7angel456universe...
@@dark7angel456all is holographic narcism..😂
@@dark7angel456 what a nightmare
You know when you've dealt with them because nothing is normal. You can't quite put your finger on it, but problems can never be resolved. And you feel like you're slowly suffocating alive.
Exactly
That's a very good description.
That's a perfect short explanation.
Problems can not be solved hits hard.
🎯
I think some people become avoidant after dealing with a covert narcissist because there’s never any resolution and trust is so badly damaged that it’s hard to want to put effort into a relationship after that. So much healing needs to be done after that kind of relationship
I am now joked about as being a "hermit" by people who know me. I used to be fun, bubbly and outgoing, and now I don't want to be around people anymore. It feels like relationships are transactional and everyone is just hoping to get the best return and not get stiffed. I know I am jaded... but I don't know how to rebuild from here.
@@thislittleweirdgirl332trust yourself enough to know that if people choose to cross you, you will be able to pick yourself back up. It’s better to love & lose than to not live at all. Have faith in yourself 💙
Thank you for posting this
@@thislittleweirdgirl332 Boundaries and baby steps. Boundrify, then do a gut check and see if it's excessive. You have skills now that you did not have before. No nasty covert is going to sneak right up on you and walk off with your wallet. Baby steps are non-transactional social settings. A farmer's market, what have you. Open yourself up to chat and socialize with someone who seems friendly. This is a good place to flex your new skills and see what you learned. Someone gives you the skeeve, you pat yourself on the back and walk off.
Go. Live. Enjoy.
@@tuoctran43
Don't love. Take time, let them talk, give nothing. People show themselves
It seems you partly describe a grandiose narcissist, a covert would not lie to make others believe they’re successful, they’d always play the poor victims/losers, but on the other hand they’d create a facade of being the best helper/most altruistic person in the world who wouldn’t harm anyone. Coverts are the most dangerous narcissists, they show up as helpless „kids“ and break your intuitive boundaries.
He mentions how narcissism is hard to study because how many people view it differently. There's no one set definition for that reason
Covert more like introverted, may stay covert, saying that from observation. I've also seen a grandiose narc act like covert, at times, depending on the situation, and how he preferred to play it to his advantage. This video cleared it up for me because I thought he was grandiose, but was questioning that. Took years for me to identify narcissism because I had no knowledge about it, just knew things were off with these two people. The first was a compulsive liar and emotionally abusive, after many years thought back about that situation and realized that he showed all the traits of a covert narc. The second was the first one I identified, after a decade of knowing him, a person I really cared about, but again, something was off about him but I could sense his brokenness inside and was always there for him. My friends kept trying to get through to me about this person, because he was wasting years with empty promises, but I didn't want to see it and thought enough care would help him get to the place of being able to receive love. Eventually my friends bff opened my eyes and called him a narc, one day, because he had a rage fit outside her apartment building over a girl that worked there who didn't want to come outside and talk to him. So after that, with reading up about it, things became very clear.
Thank you; I couldn't find the words to say it as well as you have.
This is spot on.
Oh, I have heard lies. They are not about what is, it is about what could have been. "My aunt made me the sole beneficiary in her testament, she talked about it often. She carried the testament in her hand bag and it crumbled".
If you're in a relationship with an avoidant, run. Just fucking run. Get out. It'll be hell. You'll be gaslighted into oblivion just for wanting baseline levels of mutual trust, attention, affection, and wanting just a crumb of your emotional needs met. You'll never out-love their issues. And it'll leave you broken and unsure of yourself in every way.
Really truly hope you find relief/some kind of peace or help dealing with it🙏🏻
Wishing you many blessings🫂
8 years on and off with an avoidant. 8 years of on and off of this amazing love then being cut off for X amount of time only to return and repeat
Holy shit. Thank you for this. That explains my relationship exactly.
*"...just for wanting baseline levels of mutual trust, attention, affection, and wanting just a crumb of your emotional needs met."*
Just. Holy exact shit.
It hurts so bad. Learn the signs , before it's too late. It's agonizing and disorienting. You won't be able to sleep or trust yourself.
I was married to a covert narcissist for 24 years. I had to study it just to keep my sanity. I searched for years before I figured it out. I wish I had known about this disorder so I could have my life back.
It really does feel like a part of your life has been stolen doesn’t it?
SAME
Same
Me too.
Ditto x
I was in her web. It's insane these people exist. It was the most bizarre experience. Love bombing is no joke...
Yes difficult and there are many.
@@ElizzzaBYes they come in many shapes.
Gen Z are full of this type. S
....I was love-bombed for 3 months by a severe avoidant, it was awesome. Just that, the first time she shut down emotionally at that 3 months mark I abruptly ended the relationships and dumped her sorry arse to the curb. I still miss her terribly a couple of months down the track but it was worthwhile and I'll get over it. She can go do it to someone else now, probably someone way less secure and without the strong boundaries I have
If they are rude or condescending do it back , always pass the ball back , they won't hang around and most probably they will reveal themselves first .
Narcissists want to do / say things to you that they would never tolerate from you in a million years .
💯
Bingo.
My ex told me at the beginning of the relationshit that he should’ve been an actor.
He also told me that he hadn’t seen his children in years, due to a social services order “fear of emotional abuse”
His parents also warned me about him.
He told his father he wanted to marry me. His dad secretly said to me, in response to his statement - “make sure you know what you’re doing”
Like a fool I didn’t heed the warnings.
Oh, how I regret not running away sooner.
The most sadistic and cruel and nasty person I have met.
And his name happened to me Alex also!…wow!…what a coincidence 😤Trigger!!!
Good you got away , Who else was called Alex ?
@@narcsurvivors2445 yeah I didn't get that either. But I get that Alex is a douche bag of the highest order of magnitude😂
I think the most important thing is for people to realize when they're in a toxic situation, and to see when they're being mistreated. Get out as fast as possible and worry about the diagnosis later. There are also those people who like to call every ex of theirs a narc, it gets a bit silly. But it's important to also be aware of the characteristics of narcissism (without looking for one behind every bush lol) because otherwise you can waste years believing the empty promises, investing in the wind, and end up with things like PTSD, cognitive dissonance etc.
Agree for 100%!
In toxic relationships both partners are codependent of eachother, which means they both have the illusion their partner can make them happy. A narcissist feels safe with the illusion of being able to control his partner (or hers of course) - the result becomes he blames the partner when things don't turn out as he idealizes it. The partner has an illusion as well: "When I keep on pleasing him, he eventually will love me and then we can live happily ever after!" They both don't genuinely love eachother and they both are addicted to the negative tention.
What they do have in common though is that they both suffer from trauma. Narcissists commonly have grown up spoilt. Their grandiose self-image is created during their childhood. When their parents kept on telling them they're better than the common people, they'll link every confrontation with their mistakes with rejection from their parents.
It's very sad actually. Still the best thing you can do, is by realising it's not up to you to 'save' them. No matter if you hate the person for everything he did to you or you are worried about him: just don't allow people into your life who can only bring negativity into your life. Especially when you suffer from PTSD due to all the gaslighting, lies, projection, etc
It might feel very unfair, because it SEEMS they can get away with everything. Eventually it's because of that their life remains empty and miserable.
Agree, get out if it's toxic, no matter the cause. It's not going to change for the better, and it's likely to actually get WORSE as they age. Soon enough, you'll realize you've wasted years waiting for the other person to want to improve. If they cared, they'd have been on it years ago. 😢
Yes AND the cognitive dissonance keeps you hooked to them. The highs make you feel like it’s all your fault
you wrote: "There are also those people who like to call every ex of theirs a narc, it gets a bit silly." That is not necessarily silly. We fall for the same type over and over again, until we learn to spot the traits, and heal ourselves
@totmirmis That's a fair point. I would say it's pretty accurate, too. Not all to the same degree, maybe, but all may have had traits and tendencies somewhere along the spectrum.
You are overlooking a HUGE issue. Trying to describe narcissistic abuse to others who have NOT experienced it is very very difficult and given that... The abused may look like the narcissist themselves as they do not feel understood either.
I agree. They push you into survival mode which looks like narcissism.😢
You make a good point. I don't hate my ex because she is mentally ill and doesn't know it. Hence, the reason why she won't get treatment and fix her life. She wanted to get married but that wouldn't fix her life or mine. It would create more hardship for me. No thanks.
It's impossible.
That's a very good point. I think a lot of the times in relationships both sides could have done things differently. It's a two-way street, after all. Of course, it's possible that one side was at fault much more than the other, but it's more likely that one side was at fault and one more so than the other. I don't know whether I'm being mature or immature saying that...
So true. I was diagnosed with NPD - mistakenly! I was taking different kinds of medicine for eight years and tried four different approaches in therapy, before untangled all this to learn BOTH my mom and ex-wife were narcissists. I was constantly gaslighted and brainwashed for 38 years of my life! I’m on a path to recovery, but my personality is still quite disintegrated… I’m only doing this to break the cycle and stop damaging other people
My old aunt survived a long marriage with my narcisistic uncle. He passed away a couple of years ago, and now, she is showing up signs of dementia, always recalling events from that marriage over and over. Only God can tell, but we all think their toxic lifestyle has a lot to do with her condition. In short, pay attention to the words of our smart counselor Chris,...because what he is saying makes a lot of sense.
He slowly stole who she was that's sad
@@tamarajarrell4812 Because stress makes people sick. I think that the narcissist uncle probably gaslighted his wife. She probably succumbed to it, so she didn't knew what real and what was not.
There are relatively new studies that shows that narcissistic abuse can make the victims develop dementia in their later stages of life.
That demon killed her and did it slowly. These demons should not be allowed to live among humans.
True. They stress you, sleep deprivation, chaos in your life then messes with you balance system. Then they deplete your cortisol then that blows off your body regulation system then your internal organs start to struggle then you hormones then your entire body will become sick and you will get so sick you will die. Stress is number one killer for a reason. These people bring stress 500 billion times the normal. Your happiness is diminished. Your peace is gone you won't be able to get it back. Your brain chemistry becomes unbalanced. They literally will drain the life out of you. HOW CAN YOU MISS THAT? HOW CAN YOU LOVE THAT? HOW CAN YOU MISS SOMEONE SO EVIL?
My youngest adult daughter is an evil narcissist. She stressed out my husband, her father, so bad that he started crying uncontrollably and asking what he did wrong, raising her, over and over, then he collapsed and took his last breath. He died of a broken heart. I blame her for his death. I went no contact with her. It's been 4 and a half years, and I have been destroyed beyond repair. Living a horrible nightmare. I struggle with the same thoughts. She plays the victim and has me as the bad person. All my family and friends have abandoned me, including our oldest daughter. I don't know what I did wrong raising her. It must have been my fault somehow. So, I am being punished to live a life of misery. So confused 😕 I know I am a good person. Everyone always came first before me. I was the one who went without, either it be food, clothes or whatever they needed.
They probably don’t even blink while they slowly take peoples lives.
What you said, is so true. I was going through that horrendous imbalance and the only answer to help me was, " leave the relationship " because it isn't getting better....it's getting worse. " The relationship lasted 18 months but one more year would of killed me from stress. No joke. It's been 3 weeks no contact.
I wonder if I'll ever feel normal again? My chest pains went away, and I'm happy I have more freetime but my self esteem needs work.
@emmarae4322 No, they don't. My evil narcissists eyes turned black, and she smirked an evil grin. It's in my head, I can't unsee that 😫
@@terrydyer2490 dear Terry. She is resposibile for your beloved husband death.
If you went to contact and she turned all the family against you it only shows how evil she is.
I cannot imagine situation like this. Ever.
Fill yourself woth joy. Protect yourself . Try maybe speaking with eldest daughter or leave them .
If you know you were good stay at that.
They are not worth it.
Look what she did to her dad.
Stop feeling guilty and let her go
I agree with you completely. I’ve been married to a covert narcissist for 40 years and now he’s become grandiose cruel and pretty much completely insane at age 57. I’m divorcing him
Your new life awaits you!!!
Good for you.The burden will be lifted off your shoulders, but it will still take time to see things clearly.
Congrats you've made right decision God Bless 🙌 🙏 👏 ❤
Congratulations on your decision. Been 20 something years free of my mama's boy. If I may make a recommendation, get trauma based therapy asap. You could have a delayed reaction to the grief years later. I hid mines problem for him long enough, but no more. I'm still reeling from a family who hid the severity of an adopted child with severe mental problems as a child. The consequences I'm still seeing today. Mental disorders are serious business for mentally healthy people... Great luck and never forget to be kind only to yourself for however long it takes to protect your mental health. They don't have that and they can't have yours or borrow it any more.
I bet you won’t.
They talk at you for hours about their favourite subject, themselves, until you find it hard to stay awake.
I've started saying shut up under my breath helps 🎉
Most of the avoidant people I've known are passive in conversation
The difference is the intention, the whole focus of a covern narcissist is YOU, while the avoidant per se is die to their fear of independence. However, the effect is the same, it will profoundly hurt your self-esteem to be around them. I've been with both, and I can tell you one is a monster and the other just has tunnel vision.
Well said perfectly
Can you please share which type is the monster vs tunnel vision? I’m learning.
@@teralecole316 He means that avoidants have tunnel vision and narcissists are monsters. Both are way too self absorbed and monsters to be honest
@@fabiocosta3306 Thank you for explaining. By the sound of it, it’s true.
@@fabiocosta3306don’t use the word monster lightly!
Avoidant’s are in survival mode all the time. If you can’t deal with them that is your own personal problem, but they are not monsters. Intention matters. They do not want to hurt you.
Narcissists do. People with NPD find a role for you in their life and they will lock you there and destroy you. Whatever they do, they are going to destroy you. They want to hurt you, they enjoy hurting you, they are incapable of loving you and they hate you and themselves.
Narcissists are beyond monsters, they are evil.
Avoidants might love you, but they simply speak a different language than you due to past trauma.
It’s almost like it’s too late, because once you figure all these things out, you’re already involved. I wish there were signs so that I wouldn’t get involved. I’m still enduring a year-long smear campaign from the last one who just won’t relent.
I agree with your perspective that coverts are simply the same thing as an overt, just better at hiding. However, i would like to add, based on my extensive experience with coverts (sadly for me), that the main reason they "hide" is because they think they can't get away with being overt. Yes, stressors of life can cause their mask to drop, but also being successful in life will cause them to feel that they can get away with grandiosity, and they will be thrilled to expand into that. If they feel they have gained enough social capitol of some kind (money, looks, social position, etc..) then they will feel emboldened to let their freak flag fly.
But isn't it normal to feel more confident (and even assertive) when things are going well in your life? Isn't it also normal to feel insecure when things are not going well? Is it just the severity of the confidence/assertiveness (ie. "grandiosity") that marks the difference between normal human behavior and narc behavior?
@@johnny4062 Well, being confident and being grandiose are not the same thing. But, I think it 's true that when things are going well for someone, and they feel more confident, then they are more likely to display who they really are. In the case of narcissists, this means you will more clearly see the narcissistic traits.
I recently had the experience of discovering a longtime friend is a covert narcissist. The way i found out was when some positive things happened in my life and even though she always said her life is great she was so triggered by my good fortune her mask slipped and she did everything to attack, mock, and install doubt anything to steal any joy away. She also responded with self pitying cries of how hard her life is in response to my good news - that response was so weird to me. The fact she didn't want me to be happy. She had everyone including me for a long time thinking she is a saint with empathy always on show. Yet subtly (esp after the love bombing of the friendship) she would mock me, tell me sob stories every tine how others were so mean and she was good and ignore or minimise any accomplishments I had. It's so fucking devious.
@@truthteller493 And what happened afterwards? How did you leave that friendship?
Narcissists lie. There's no way they'd answer ANY test truthfully, but rather answer what they think will make them look good.
I agree. The only way to hear the truth from a narc is to stick around long enough and they tell on themselves. The are hypocritical and walking contradictions.
And victims use the NPD label to rise above their ex or colse one even if "narcissist" is not the right one. Others agree that the NPD, who is not an NPD, lies as if they agreed that the sky is yellow because they are wearing the same glasses. They use the label by convenience . Talking down on anybody happens on NPD abuse channels.
I was thinking the same thing
I need advice from an unbiased source.
I've been avoiding this girl who's obviously interested in me for months now. On a good day, I'm brave enough to show her some attention and affection, and she loves it. I love it too, and we both have great back and forth banter and chat. But right as we're getting closer, I get insecure and pull away. I dont know how to take things a step further. It hurts her, the disappointment in her eyes.. On bad days, I usually dodge her because if I do try to talk to her, I don't think it would go well. You feel insecure, and it will show through via your body language, and it'll just be a turn-off unpleasant for both sides. Those bad days hurt her, I can tell, and it's not something I want for her. I feel like a total jerk. How do you express something like this without looking needy or manipulative? She's a wonderful girl, and she deserves more attention that I so desperately want to give her... Both my parents are extremely narcissistic manchildren who have always been cold, viscious, and callous towards me even at my most vulnerable moments. To give you an example, my mom kicked me out of the car on my 16th birthday and left me on the side of the road. My dad yelled at me and said I brought it on myself."" My sister was just about to burst into tears as they drove off to go spend some family time at the lake. These kinds of things have happened consistently before. Viscious unfair and callous treatment from my mom while my dad does nothing to help and instead blames me. She's touched me inappropriately before but not enough to leave and injuries. I'm convinced that if self-preservation wasn't on her list of priorities, she had beat me when I was little. All of this is true, but am I saying this just to guilt trip? To get my way so I can justify the mistreatment of this girl I like? Am I the narcissist, or am I the avoidant? I don't know what to do... This girl deserves better than me and what ive been offering her. Knowing this eats my soul and makes it even harder to connect with anyone. The worst part is I dodge people all the time, and they think I'm stuck up. Like, I think I'm too good for them when, in reality, it's because I feel like I'm not good enough for anyone. What the hell do I do? Sometimes, I wonder if this nightmare will ever end😮💨
In a teen friendship situation, a covert narcissistic destroys their 'friend'. Hurts them directly thru lies, but also all the flying monkeys they garner and character assassination they employ.
UA-camr heal NPD did a great video on this very subject. He said all narcs have grandiosity and vulnerability. Covert narcs have overt vulnerability that masks covert grandiosity, and overt narcs have overt grandiosity that masks covert vulnerability. He used quadrant system instead of a linear continuum too. But I think you’re right about all this.
Most recycling is just for show. It's all getting dumped in the Chinese ocean. Just dumping it 1000s of miles away 🪸
Yipes i'm dissociating reading your comment
@@StalkedHuman Why would we do that?
@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye because you're greedy
@@StalkedHuman Not especially. It is not even a trait of NPD.
They should teach this in high school 🏫
Overts and Coverts are narcissists who were traumatised at a different age. I much prefer Overts to their stealth version with the crocodile tears. You can deal with Overts, but not with Coverts.
Coverts are the worst, literally nobody believes you if you speak out. If you speak it backfires on you. I remained silent for years because, everyone I know was contaminated with the lies of the covert narcissist. I went no contact without knowing I was dealing with narcissists. Still I am an outcast but I got my freedom, don’t care if the whole world is against me, as long as I got my sanity and God.
I agree, what you see is what you get with an overt. A covert pretends they have your back while stabbing you in the back.
AMEN!!!
Then malignant are another level of evil again 🙄 😒 😑 😐 😕 😢
My mom is a covert. Took me 35 years to figure it out.
I don't have to watch this video to know the answer to this question, which is no. Not all avoidants are narcissists. Having an avoidant attachment style doesn't necessarily make one a liar, a gaslighter, manipulative, controlling, lacking in empathy, and/or grandiose.
Where did you read that we were all of the above? All the traits you mentioned are found in sociopaths not NPDs. See my long comment and please find the dsm V-TR and check section III. We have empathy again..
@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye
actually, I have read the DSM 5 for NPD, and the traits I listed often go hand in hand with NPD, especially the grandiose one.
The rest of your comment doesn't make any sense to me. I didn't bother to watch the video because I already knew the answer to the question on its title, which was, "Are all avoidants covert narcissists?" The answer is no. There is a big difference between having an avoidant attachment style and having NPD, which was the point I was trying to make. I think you must have misunderstood my comment.
@@kimberlyhovis5864 Well actually studies show similar résistance to treatment. I don't personally care. I find this craze - which is mostly American anriously worrying. Looks like Americans don't see humans anymore.
The DSM is approximative at best. The labels' names, descriptors and classification are inconsistent at best.
The problem comes from experts unable to coopérateurs even within the same school of thought.
The most common form and most studied one, the vulnerable type is simply mentionned. It would be a Kurt Cobain.
The one who thrones at the center, is unlikely to come close to the vulnerable type. He is really a grandiose sociopath. He is a relic still in place because Kernberg believes ASPD is on the same spectrum as NPD which he should know is impossible.. The real grandiose is a vulnerable woith a more visible grandiose self. Cf Ettensohn Heal NPD channel.
Anyway even the arrogant NPD guy doesn't match your description.
Find DSM5- TR online and check the new dimensional approach in section IiI NPD is still a mix of NPD and ASPD but a more realistic han the category-based one.
I am not sure why you should use this superior tone and BS while contributing to vilify a label which in itself is irresponsible.
I am not here to defend myself. I have zero interest in doing so. I know who I am.
@kimberlyhovis5864 @kimberlyhovis5864 Well actually studies show similar résistance to treatment. I don't personally care. I find this craze - which is mostly American and Brit. unhealthy.
The DSM is approximative at best. The labels' names, descriptors and classification are inconsistent at best.
The problem comes from experts unable to coopérateurs even within the same school of thought.
The most common form and most studied one, the vulnerable type is just mentionned. It would be a Kurt Cobain.
The one who trônes at the center, is unlikely to come close to the vulnerable type. He is really a grandiose sociopath. He is a relic. The real grandiose is a vulnerable woith à more visible grandiose self. Cf Ettensohn Heal NPD channel.
Anyway even the arrogant NPD guy -who iss really a sociopat- desn't match your crieria
Vulnerable NPD is b
@@kimberlyhovis5864I disagree. It’s really simple to just tell somebody you are not interested instead of creating a cycle of abuse which avoidance and narcissist to. They are pretty much the same.
I was married to a covert narcissist for 20 years. It was a slow death of my soul and what is left of it has become avoidant. Covert narcissists has killing you mentally a prioritized goal, and they will make it, given enough time.
My exes need for admiration is something im wrapping my head around a year later.
He was so subtle at first, the love bombing was so intense and addictive... but then the demands for admiration whilst belittling my needs.
I once told him that i like it when I am greeted after getting home from work by him looking up from his phone, standing up and acknowledging that i am back.
Well, didn't that give him the ammunition to tear me down!!
Forever after that, he had a line about me "expecting him to drop everything and stand up like the Queen had entered the room" that he said with such contempt!!
He was selfish, cruel, saddistic... yet it was always a requirement for me to admire him and praise him and give endlessly to him from my ow resources, no matter how depleted i was.
Every aspect of a true narcissist that can be mentioned, i have examples of what thelat looks like from that relationship now.
And every horrible symptom of the aftermath is something i have now experienced.
I hope he lives the rest of his miserable days single and dies alone. Not because i am cruel, but because i know he won't change and i don't want anyone else to suffer at his hands.
The cover narcissist is by far the most dangerous narcissist.
It took me til I was 30 to really realize why I felt so off as a kid growing up. It was bc my mom and brother are covert narcissists and my dad enables them, not to mention other relatives that were narcissists as well like my grandparents who would walk all over our family, taking advantage of my parents' compassion. This is why when you cross me, its no more Mr. Nice Guy. I dont play the "oh well they're family" game...thats a great way to let people ruin your life using excuses like that
I think that's why new ones get away with it. It's like a bad habit to put up with bad behavior. I would completely disassociate then ignore the whole event.
I need advice from an unbiased source.
I've been avoiding this girl who's obviously interested in me for months now. On a good day, I'm brave enough to show her some attention and affection, and she loves it. I love it too, and we both have great back and forth banter and chat. But right as we're getting closer, I get insecure and pull away. I dont know how to take things a step further. It hurts her, the disappointment in her eyes.. On bad days, I usually dodge her because if I do try to talk to her, I don't think it would go well. You feel insecure, and it will show through via your body language, and it'll just be a turn-off unpleasant for both sides. Those bad days hurt her, I can tell, and it's not something I want for her. I feel like a total jerk. How do you express something like this without looking needy or manipulative? She's a wonderful girl, and she deserves more attention that I so desperately want to give her... Both my parents are extremely narcissistic manchildren who have always been cold, viscious, and callous towards me even at my most vulnerable moments. To give you an example, my mom kicked me out of the car on my 16th birthday and left me on the side of the road. My dad yelled at me and said I brought it on myself."" My sister was just about to burst into tears as they drove off to go spend some family time at the lake. These kinds of things have happened consistently before. Viscious unfair and callous treatment from my mom while my dad does nothing to help and instead blames me. She's touched me inappropriately before but not enough to leave any injuries. I'm convinced that if self-preservation wasn't on her list of priorities, she had beat me when I was little. All of this is true, but am I saying this just to guilt trip? To get my way so I can justify the mistreatment of this girl I like? Am I the narcissist, or am I the avoidant? I don't know what to do... This girl deserves better than me and what ive been offering her. Knowing this eats my soul and makes it even harder to connect with anyone. The worst part is I dodge people all the time, and they think I'm stuck up. Like, I think I'm too good for them when, in reality, it's because I feel like I'm not good enough for anyone. What the hell do I do? Sometimes, I wonder if this nightmare will ever end😮💨
@@janesheridan7967"You need to learn to get along with all types of people." Is what my grandparents would always say. "Even the abusive ones." was silent🤷♂️
I can relate. My mother was as well.
This is an absolute refinement as an analysis
I’ve had my years of experience with one and you nailed it
Agreed.
Chris is very professional, and we are lucky to have found him. There is never late to learn and improve our lives.
No, not all avoidants are covert narcissists.
I agree. It's never useful to generalize. I had disorganized attachment from childhood trauma. That style includes an avoidant side at war with an anxious side. I'm not a narcissist of any kind.
@@weaviejeebies yea. I'm an effect of being raised by covert narcissist mother, having bpd, which bpd usually has anxious or disorganized attachment. The title is a bit confusing.
It's not your God given intuition that gets you in trouble it's going ahead and doing what you want to do.
@@shirleymorales3161 i wholeheartedly agree. luckily i inherently side with intuition.
Thank you for answering what the video failed to answer!
The Easy Tells:
- They will guilt trip you - it's a form of abuse and they are the victim.
- EVERY PROBLEM is your fault
- They are entitled to demand from you but they don't return the favours.
- They forget all of the bad things they did
- They tell everyone how bad you are and what a victim they are
- They say hurtful things without ANY remorse. A healthy person tries to be sensitive out of human compassion
This spectrum view is accurate. I would go so far as to say they shift depending on who they are interacting with. They find, when dealing with someone like myself, that they have a false sense of Power and Safety. That is how I have made them back down throughout my long life. They have simply forgotten that they can be victims too. Authenticity is like mosquito repellant to them... Especially an authentic person who will "nail them to the wall" for a lack of better phrase. Authenticity is the only true Power, so don't be afraid to be yourself. And understand, this is a life long struggle because they are everywhere.
In fact they are deeply afraid of authentic people because authenticity equals intimacy.
Yes and if you see through them don't let on, they'll go ballistic
I don’t tolerate their BS anymore; am the truth teller. If they want to rage, have a temper tantrum or whatever that’s fine by me. Of course I make sure I’m safe!
@@Victoria-c4n agree, but the grandiose I knew was also a trained s n i p e r, and equipped accordingly, so the slow fade and eventual cutting of contact seemed wise
@@ashton1952 - As stated; keep yourself SAFE!
Once they have new supply.. even if not romantic but when they gain another friend, they will backstab you. Once they gain confidence not shown much before, they will show their true face, the mask will drop & they can be rude to you, acting unaware they are doing this. Like childish behavior.
Yup! Anyone or anything that he/she deems replaceable to you will cause their mask to drop. Then all of a sudden you’re being devalued. With the covert they keep all the conversations and interactions the same, but slowly take away the emotional connection and mental effort that was originally there. Distancing themselves before the actual discard phase. This is where they begin “reconnecting with family” and “long lost friends” in an attempt to smooth over their support system. It only works because we did not expect these people existed, and family/friends will always side with the narcissist anyway-no matter what.
Any narcissist can engage in “covert narcissist” behaviour, it’s all relative to the power and control they have in a specific case.
Yes, control, toxic power trip like Gourou.
Yes as Sam Vaknin explained, all diagnosable NPD folks will near surely go through phases where they are covert and phases of overt etc.
"Sleeper agent" perfectly explained 👌 👏
You are one of the few people who are honest about the consequences of a toxic person or a narcissist with regard to the title of this video! Thank you!!!
It took 20yrs for me to see her ‘death stare’. Then I saw it the following week as her mask fell off. Always had that unsettling off feeling around her and couldn’t put my finger on it. She used to switch from vulnerable to overt but mostly vulnerable.
Yes.. "something is off and you can't ever put your finger on it"
From my experience (I’ve only been involved with one true covert narc), they will show their grandiosity through belittling you. The content of their criticism will show you how highly they perceive themselves. For example, one time I told my ex we should get into the gym; his response, “if I got back into the gym, you would lose me so fast.” And for context, this statement was right after he hoovered me back into his life with repeated calls/apologies/gifts. This is just one of hundreds of examples. But I saw his grandiosity in the way he belittled me. That along with the serial cheating, gaslighting, giving me an sti, finding way to destroy my career, the list goes on. They are absolute monsters. Their avoidant behaviors have a deeper sadistic intention, unlike regular avoidants who just have tunnel vision.
I have a perfect test: tell them no to something they really want
Spot on! Our son is marrying a narcissist. We tried to warn him. He cut us out of our lives because we said no to his fiance after she demanded more money from us towards the wedding. We seriously had already given them $5000 towards rehearsal dinner, which I thought was generous. Apparently not to her. As soon as we said no, she destroyed our relationship with our son. Now he won’t speak to us. I grieve for him and for the abuse he will have to go through.
@@Sticktothegospel I'm so sorry. My son married one too. What did I say no on? Nothing, but I got upset at one of their rules. Apparently I'd 'offended' her for years and yet we hardly spoke and I didn't know about it. The last straw was after they had a baby and were using it as leverage for me to cooperate on things. "If you don't do x,y,z, you can't see the baby." I pushed back at the way he was using it, and presto. I haven't seen the baby in 4 years, and wasn't told about the new one. My son talks to me all the time but I'm not allowed in their lives anymore. They moved 5 hours away to be near her family.
@@cyndimoring9389 I’m in the same boat. She’s already made comments that when they have children they have concerns about me being around the children. It’s a total set up. I can see it. The weird thing is I did nothing wrong to her. Last time I spoke to my son he said I needed to apologize to her for never making her feel welcome or accepted. That is false. I did love her but apparently setting a boundary is unacceptable to her. I can’t change how she feels. That’s on her. What I can change is to not be abused by her. And going no contact seems to be the only choice. I pray my son wakes up to the truth. I never wanted things to get ugly but I feel I was up against a no win situation
@@Sticktothegospel yes, the 'apology' thing had been happening for years with my son's dad.I should have seen it coming. And when I was told to apologize for the multiple things on her list the apologies weren't good enough. She said the same, I couldn't be around her children. she's always been extremely jealous and suspicious of my son so of course any other woman he loves needs to get away. And if her children loved me she'd be stuck with me. I think it's about isolation. She also doesn't trust my son to go to weddings alone. lol. But the no contact has really hurt my feelings so much. I'd never have done that to my husband's family members, no matter how weird they were.
@@cyndimoring9389 Same. Real unconditional love means accepting people imperfections and all. I wasn’t bothered by her imperfections and loved her the way she was. Did I feel she was a bit high maintenance? Sure. But I kept myself out of it. It was my son’s relationship. Not mine. I kept telling them I didn’t feel I was losing a son to marriage, but rather gaining a daughter. But I’m not sure why I was suddenly vilified by her. It sure hurts but I’m at peace knowing I did try.
I’d like to hear the definition of “narcissism” in context of a selfish, insane society that values paper over people.
Oooo! That sounds like an interesting topic to really chew on!
Too bad this is only a comment section. Lol
@@hollyandstelladoodle8748 and as if to illustrate, you make a pointless comment 🦜
Another thing …. Under narcissistic abuse … the abuser makes it all seems normal, or they outright tell you not to open your mouth… parents can be narcissists and they can also use the Bible against the victim stating that they have the right to abuse you cause they are parents …. Then the victim won’t say anything and thinks it’s normal
Yes. That was my childhood. I’m grateful to God for my sister who figured it out and brought it to life for me.
God led us to a psychologist that helped us. We learned to resist mom’s tricks. Within a few years she died a sudden and baffling death. Swallowing issues led to pneumonia, and within 3 weeks she was gone bc there’s no way to revive the swallow muscle once it’s lost.
Yes, believe it or not. Metaphoric isn’t it?
I dont think the Bible says its okay to abuse your kids. Spare the rod spoil the child means its the parents responsibility to guide them, not beat them. Correction is needed but not at the end of a stick. Meanings of words have been changed and lost. Getting comfort from Gods rod and staff should clue people in. They mran guidance and protection like a shepherd guiding and protecting their flock. Parents should view their family/offspring like their flock.
Everyone I don't like is a narcissist.
And everyone who endlessly talks about themselves because they want to portray themselves as victims of a narcissist is an empath.
😂
Add that to the growing list of additions to the original "everything i don't like is hitler"
@BinaryMekhanika I wonder if Hitler was narcissistic, probably not though, since he cared what so many other people were doing.
Empaths are wounded narcissists
@@texxstalker that's interesting!
Had an overt for 14 years there was no guessing except what might happen moment to moment.Escaped with my children. Then had a wonderful man for 14 years who passed away fro mancer waited 7 years didnt date at all and allowed myself to be taken in by the one im with now. He is mostly quiet but see its to gather info to use or twist later.Seemed at first to have good values, humble and kind was definately a fast moving love bomber .Now at 3 year mark and wow ! Lies about past conversations lies about some people to other people,lies about accomplishments .Saus things i had no idea he thought and its scary. The way he walks you can see he feels superior over every other person never seems to think hes inferior not humble at all yet 1st to say he is . If someone calls him out he is quietly enraged and lies his way out of what they say happened. I dont argue or try to talk about things anymore as how can you with someone who can look you in the eye and change a whole conversation. It would be pointless to keep trying Have had a few things happen lately that could have ended in a bad accident for me or worse and thought WOW that was so on purpose and if anything happens to me everyone will think hes wonderful for paying for a funeral lol and feel bad for him 😮Best apologie ever was im sorry you feel that way . I explained it to my friend like this : He could push me off a cliff and when im falling with a hurt heart , asking whyyyy? Why would you push someone you claim to love? He would say with a smirk on his face, Whaaat ! I would never push anybody and add im sorry you "feel like" you are falling. Then run to to the bottom give me a fake hug and say sweetly, We are ok, you're an emotional mess babe, thats enough of that to dismiss it all. And all i can say is i knew it was off ! I could feel it to the bone but i was foolish and ran with what i thought could possibly have a happy ending. Lol NOT !!! I didnt even know what narcassism was until i started trying to figure this guy out. Prayers for wisdom strength and courage for everyone here on their own search !
Please leave now.
4:55 - 7:55 is describing a sociopath. and there are sociopathic elements to narcissism. They are always on top, ahead of the game, never loose, and never have to admit to being wrong because....wait for it....they are never wrong.
So do they have to be wrong? Where does self love stop and narcissism start. Where does narcissim stop and truly being better begin? It just seems like narcissm research is very difficult to implement into your life.
All sociopaths are narcissists; not all narcissists are sociopaths.
💯 Integrity. Super simple test.
Edit: There was a point I knowingly interacted with legit narcissists (or, at least, highly covert and malignant people) in order to better understand both them and myself. It was an expensive but exceptionally valuable lesson. In view of long-term risk/reward I don't regret it. But I wouldn't do it twice. Lol
Great topic and video, here's my feedback.
[1] Yes the covert narc is extremely difficult to spot. But one of the best ways to get an indication is to look at their whole family, or their group of friends. You have to see them in these other environments, and it would help if you can see them when they're not aware that you can see them. If there are signs of Cluster-B among these people (especially family), then you might start wondering about covert narcissism. Typically, they are impossible to detect without long term observation, but the presence of Cluster-B people in their orbit is a Clue, and it's JUST a clue.
[2] Covert narcs DO frequently expose themselves kind of like a hermit crab. They use dog whistles and then quickly retreat into their shell and go back to the fake niceness. They do cruel things randomly and then quickly retreat into their shell of fake niceness. They do this shit repeatedly, like a Broken Record ... wash/rinse/repeat. It will affect you just like Chinese Water Torture. And that is the best way to explain it.
[3] The covert narc is almost impossible to spot, they are invisible most of the time. Really the only way to get a glimpse is to look at the people who are in direct contact with this person for a long time ... and see if any of them are being dog whistled etc. People who are in the orbit of the covert narc will know that the covert narc is "sometimes a genuine jerk', and this is because they are like Hermit Crabs. Hope that helps.
[4] If this person seems like they have two (slightly) different personalities, one personality which they privately share with you, and a slightly different personality when in a group of others ... that would be a Clue, and ONLY a clue. They are typically almost impossible to detect in conversation until they start in with the abuse, and then they are highly visible whenever they come out of that Hermit Crab shell and they are not nice. They can be rude, abusive, nagging, and/or deliberately stupid. And they do those things repeatedly, like a junkie, because they seek narc supply. Hope that helps.
I need advice from an unbiased source.
I've been avoiding this girl who's obviously interested in me for months now. On a good day, I'm brave enough to show her some attention and affection, and she loves it. I love it too, and we both have great back and forth banter and chat. But right as we're getting closer, I get insecure and pull away. I dont know how to take things a step further. It hurts her, the disappointment in her eyes.. On bad days, I usually dodge her because if I do try to talk to her, I don't think it would go well. You feel insecure, and it will show through via your body language, and it'll just be a turn-off unpleasant for both sides. Those bad days hurt her, I can tell, and it's not something I want for her. I feel like a total jerk. How do you express something like this without looking needy or manipulative? She's a wonderful girl, and she deserves more attention that I so desperately want to give her... Both my parents are extremely narcissistic manchildren who have always been cold, viscious, and callous towards me even at my most vulnerable moments. To give you an example, my mom kicked me out of the car on my 16th birthday and left me on the side of the road. My dad yelled at me and said I brought it on myself."" My sister was just about to burst into tears as they drove off to go spend some family time at the lake. These kinds of things have happened consistently before. Viscious unfair and callous treatment from my mom while my dad does nothing to help and instead blames me. She's touched me inappropriately before but not enough to leave any injuries. I'm convinced that if self-preservation wasn't on her list of priorities, she had beat me when I was little. All of this is true, but am I saying this just to guilt trip? To get my way so I can justify the mistreatment of this girl I like? Am I the narcissist, or am I the avoidant? I don't know what to do... This girl deserves better than me and what ive been offering her. Knowing this eats my soul and makes it even harder to connect with anyone. The worst part is I dodge people all the time, and they think I'm stuck up. Like, I think I'm too good for them when, in reality, it's because I feel like I'm not good enough for anyone. What the hell do I do? Sometimes, I wonder if this nightmare will ever end😮💨
The people who have close relationships with them will know best, and probably appear 'different' but will be the scapegoat for their stuff as they deflect truth and blame shift. My personal truth sadly. The vicious lies were the worst.
Excellent coverage on a difficult to detect thing. 😎🌟
They drain the life outta you! You'll know when you know. Run!😅
I only realized that there was an issue after it was too late. And I only learned what a covert narcissist is YEARS after going no contact…
Your content is spot on! 👍🏻
Bullying, Invalidating, Insults,Lies, etc. But they may make you gloss over those, because you are focused on Surviving the others!
The best way to spot a narcissist is if they lie a lot and if they are “contrarian” a lot. They don’t like solutions or collaboration with others toward peace, and they want others to be either confused or in their control.
This has to be a large pattern, not only 1 or 2 occasions.
Anyone doing this as a pattern in any way is not a healthy person to be around.
I have specialized in narc abuse since 2008. Your information based on putting thE research together with incredible visuals is the best out there. You really get it. The DSM is always too far behind and limiting this diagnosis
I think you should do more videos like these. It's more healing and educational to people that may have forgotten about their own welfare and mental health trying so hard to "get their ex back." I've come to realize that the right person wouldn't have chosen to leave, unless of course YOU yourself are the abuser. Otherwise, no matter what, the behavior that is displayed post break-up by someone avoidant or narcissistic can be extremely damaging and not representative of love or compassion.
This comment right here
The behavior post breakup / divorce / discard gives you everything you need to know about who they really are and what they are. They will be cruel, controlling, manipulative and will try different strategies to see how they can regain control over you. If you go no contact - they will hate it and become vindictive towards you. This is a key sign you are dealing with a narcissist. A healthy person will respect your space and wish to heal.
I took it and got 19%. I answered as honest as I could, and I thought I was a narcissist after what my ex said!
20% here too.
Dude, playing on people's feelings of perpetual victimisation is exactly what attachment theory should NOT be used for. Same goes for assigning people to fixed identities. You have no understanding of the theory you are pretending to explain. If anyone is even asking themselves the kind of questions about their partners that you claim to answer, they are almost certainly deeply insecure and need to look at themselves.
my highschool sweetheart and fiance of 20 years is a covert narc. no one chooses to stay with a narc after figuring it out, they stay quiet till finding the way out, then they go no contact. It then becomes a subject you are unlikely to share due to fear of attracting more of the same.
"no one chooses to stay with a narc after figuring it out," Oh you'd be surprised on that one. That literally happens all the time. And even once you leave them the siren's call remains sometimes.
I thought my guy was such a good listener. What he was doing is recording my stories, especially what would make me unhappy, or my triggers. He then knew exactly and covertly he could double down.
Scapegoating abuse, and the physiological side effects, can go as far as how DNA is read and coded. Along with the more traditionally described issues (like endocrine/hormone malfunction and or chronic disregulation).
But think about that… “how DNA is read and coded”… this is pretty major league and it’s been flying under the radar for a very long time…
Absolutely True! Every last one of them. But you forgot One: They will Cost You Everything You Have! Seriously!
This is so spot on bro. They flip flop bc there’s nothing real underneath it all. Another way of seeing it is with attachment theory, anxious flips to avoidant and vice versa. Fight or flight as well
I used to have an anxious attachment style when I was younger but after 15 years in a relationship with my ex wife who definitely had Borderline Personality Disorder and was definitely avoidant in her attachment style. She was also a covert narcissist thanks to her upbringing, her parents and grandparents.
After a decade of abuse and then the pain of divorce have caused me to have an avoidant attachment style that I have to remain conscious of in order not to hurt my partner.
@@adammcgill9844 I just got out of 2 years with someone exactly like that. They can try and take you off track but we can rise above it and be secure in our attachment styles. Secure attachment leads to healthy relationships
I saw the narcassist Devil within me at a very young age being brought up in a narcassist family. HELL!!!! Hard work on self. The more I dealt with my demons and the devil the more I my soul felt freedom. Cautious behaviour and being true to others as well myself.
I really like the honesty about the video. Authenticity is so rare these days. I appreciate it. Thank you your videos are so informative and helpful.
Recognize it: "I'm the best at the whole office!" Truth: They wanted to fire him but couldnt due to the protection of the contract. When I contacted his workplace to tell them he worked high on drugs, they asked me "Why didnt you call us earlier?" They were desperate for a reason to unemploy him. He told me later his boss had even driven him to the psych ward once. That he had come forward and asked "How are you today, X? I can see it's not so well.." And then drove him to the psych ER. So he's not the great asset to them he told me, he's a burden they want to rid. And this is a boss he had called a p*ssy and "to weak to lead" I think that boss sounded very very empathic and kind. Just the type who should be a boss.
Also the part of "You know something is wrong, they act robotic, but you dont know what" Thats EXACTLY so. His own mother said that "We believe you and we know something is wrong but not what" I had that exact same impression, something was very wrong but I didt know what, could NOT pinpoint it. Well turns out he had schizophrenia, avoidant personality and covert narcissism. Diagnosed by me, the psychward just put "toxic psychosis" (Psychosis due to drugs) And put him on antidepressants, sedatives, sleeping pills and neuroleptika. He gained maybe 30kilos in 6 months so the next time he rang my door, he looked like a piffer fish. Still does last time I unfortunally saw him.
Ouch. The employment scenario and his description of it sounds familiar. Can't speak to the drugs part, though I will say that he probably needs to be on something. 😂😢😮
My ex best childhood friend already formed narcissistic personality disorder when she was in her early teens. I remember her telling me more than a couple of times: "the trick is to lie so well, that you even starting to believe it. Believe it first and then start lying- it always worked for me." And these were just cases when she had to lie to her parents in order for us to sneak out the house to attend parties. When we grew up I hurtfully had to realize that she is not good for me, she hurt, lied and betrayed me and my trust. It so sad to see a once healthy person turn into something like this.
Initially, for a narcissist image is everything. They will blend in and have a knack for trends and becoming appealing to others by applying those trends in their interactions. Narcissists will see themselves as elevated above others. They are boss and that is how they roll. They will exude an image of strength, intellectual and moral superiority. Moral code is high on their agenda as it is instrumental to becoming more appealing to others. But after some time it becomes clearer that they cannot live up to the values they preach, since their morals are just an instrument for personal appeal.
As they 'outrank' others they make the rules and are also judgmental, but it is likely that they won't abide by their own rules themselves. Or alternatively, they abide by their own rules because those have become a status symbol of their dominance over others. I think this is one of the pivotal issues with narcissists: the difference in rank, the boss dictates the moral code, and has a judgmental attitude toward others while ignoring their own set of rules, because they are above their own law. "Do as I say but don't do as I do." Or alternatively: you follow the moral code, because everybody follows the moral code, I do as well. But of course not telling where that moral code comes from.
Parents with this attitude toward their children will be authoritarian and disciplinarian. Even though they might give much material or financial support, they won't provide much personal validation or won't leave enough room for personal development. As a matter of fact, they wouldn't care less, as long as the troubles they might have caused do not come around to bite them.
So true...I've got Clinical Depression and my Ex Narcissist has made me worse...feeling like i want to disappear or do something that is not a very good to do to myself.😪
I'm sorry. Same here. Don't give up.
I’m so sorry. You aren’t alone.❤
I am just blown away about all the narcissist information out there. For a while I heard "narcissist this and that" but always remembered the definition of one is a person who is basically in love with themselves. I dated a man for 2 years and when he broke up with me I was devastated and totally confused as to what was happening. All I did was ruminate and going crazy trying to figure things out. One day I googled a phrase he would say to me and loads of stuff popped up about all of this narcissist stuff. I started watching umpteen videos about narcs and everything that was said matched with this guy perfectly and things started to make sense. But more and more videos are coming out different names, criteria, labels, etc. that are mind blowing and I think is well above and beyond what the simple definition of the word narcissist means. Are things being blown out of proportion now? It just seems like every psych disorder is now being bundled under narcissism and has moved way away from the initial definition. I think it is getting out of hand now.
Yes the “off” feeling…that explains it perfectly. It’s been enough to make me second guess everything. Making me wonder if this weird vibe is just me dealing with my own distrust and ptsd from post narc relationship. I’ve started evaluating the overall relationship since we’ve been friends for years so I weigh out the relationship if I put our friendship on the justice scales how would it balance out regarding give and take…that’s been the eye opener for me.
Not just throwing around the “narc” term. I started counseling because I didn’t know what was wrong with me but I had completely disassociated emotionally from everything and everyone and made excuses for my ex to my counselor that I believed.
Uncanny valley
Wow. That is so interesting. I'm going through the same word for word. Broke down in therapy today because my relationship ended by my own hand. It wasn't pretty but I'm regretful of my bad behavior towards her. I got triggered so many times it created a RIFF in my soul and I lashed out many times. My counsel said I need to practice impulse control. Being gas lighted, blame shifted and guilt tripped so many times I lost my ability to stay calm. The relationship affected me negativity. I'm ashamed and regretful. One bad behavior doesn't deserve another.
@@clintonnagy1662 something else to consider talking about with your counselor is reactive abuse.
It's that hateful stare. I am sure you know what I mean. It's the never ever lending a hand. While they're your dad, and simply responsible.
The dead eye shark stare. There's a mouth movement with it too - almost a smirk.
@@jenlazeeare you just describing your profile picture?
Jokes aside, you are spot on.
Once you saw that very specific smirk you can detect other narcissists much more easily.
They are the same beast, different flavor, but they are all the same food type.
@@roberth4395 LoL! You are so right about the profile picture. I didn't think of that.
The thing is that if you hang around narcissists long enough, you start emulating some of their traits. I think that's what I'm doing here. 🙃
Hopefully you don't see shark eyes but I do have a smirk!
You seemed to have worked hard on this. I’m impressed. Not sure who you are but you present this topic in a unique way that can be understood.
I’ve lived with and CAREFULLY observed narcissistic. From roommates to girlfriends. I see their “Reality” so clearly. I read them like a book. It truly is insane it be a legitimate narcissistic. Great video… You seem to know it well..
#6 They can harm you. Never underestimate them. Get out quickly and quietly asap.
I discovered my brother-in-law is a covert narcissist, my sister, likely an avoidant vulnerable, my father likely borderline or NPD, who spent 35 years gaslighting, smearing and splitting. It contributed to my downfall from being a successful model/actor (the audacity!!) to being on food stamps. Only then, were they satisfied.
Still, in the end, because of my determination to be enlightened, they've been revealed for who they are. At 60, I am free, and they are isolated and miserable.
Sometimes a person becomes avoidant when they have endured so much abuse and emotional volatility that they shut down. Is that narcissistic? Well color me a dark triad… this is the next fad and it is the means by which ALL men raised in trad roles who have been beaten into stoicism will now all be branded narcissistic- bravo!
"Sometimes a person becomes avoidant when they have endured so much abuse and emotional volatility that they shut down. Is that narcissistic? Well color me a dark triad… this is the next fad and it is the means by which ALL men raised in trad roles who have been beaten into stoicism will now all be branded narcissistic"
You are absolutely correct. And I would add narcissism as reaction to narcissism is High Autism Spectrum. We heal injury and trauma by treating our injured parts inside us as if they are autistic, allowing them to be and helping them to integrate into society without changing them fundamentally or disciplining them or shaming them.
Any attempt to color and refuse reality is narcissism.
Avoidance is refusal of reality - we refuse to accept that the world is unsafe and unjust filled with injustice. This is the definition of autism spectrum, after trauma parts of ourselves are stuck in autism spectrum - which CBT will misdiagnose and mislabel, while stoicism will try to ashame it and force it onto action - that only ends up as autistic burnout, autistic shutdown and autistic meltdown. CBT is not explaining this because we are much more profitable when we have no idea what is happening and when we need to throw our money to pharma mafia who will gladly keep us under the veil of deceit and permanent misdiagnosis.
@@ranc1977sorry, but I am having a hard time following what you are saying. Are you saying that the reaction to narcissism of avoidance/picking up “narcissistic fleas” is an autism spectrum trait, or are you saying that parts of someone essentially becomes autistic after narcissistic abuse?
I’m pretty sure you’re talking about C-PTSD, which shares A LOT of traits with autism, to the point where if you have one of these as a diagnosis, you won’t even be tested for the other.
Edited for grammar
@@auggiet8380 Sam Vaknin equates autism with narcissism.
I would agree with him.
Narcissism comes in spectrum, just like autism, too.
Anyone who grew up with parent who was undiagnosed untreated Aspergers will develop symptoms identical to autism - when triggered.
We are slowly moving towards the Unity where all symptoms will stem down to invalidation - which exacerbates any kind of condition related to mental health.
Agree
@@ranc1977 Agree
Chris this is so astute TY👍I value the idea of spectrum. Years ago i anxiously asked my therapist if i was the narcissist. He obviously thought not. Then went on to explain that there is a healthy narcissism, expressed in terms like "self-esteem", or "self-love". I'm poor at that, but there's been some improvement: i sorta tolerate myself. I'm dismayed at how harshly narcissists are condemned in the comments, don't want to believe they lack a soul. Don't want to believe that about my relatives
Just too scary to try and comprehend. My immediate elder sister was mad and wanted me to lay my life down for her just for being born after 6years of being the last born..i came to my full awareness a few weeks ago...i played a few chess,i started to vibrate so positively,she started to pull away ,she didn't know i was aware it was discard time ...she started gave me the silent treatment,one day into it ...i blocked her everywhere. We are just to scared to believe what they show us,cos its family...they actually do show is who they are ....believe them.
I definitely appreciate your efforts as well as so many other channels taking on the challenge of explaining narcissism but I would like to humbly make some suggestions. Learning more about them in an effort to protect yourself and avoid narcissistic people in your life is a great idea and should be done, however, I feel that only helps such a small percentage of people. Not all narcissistic relationships are intimate partners. You can have narcissistic parent(s), sibling(s), boss, friend, coworker, etc. so not all narcissists are you able to simply avoid. For me the biggest focus should be on education and finding resources for survivors/victims of a narcissist. As you mentioned there is a spectrum when it comes to a narcissist but too often people only relate to the semi-problematic narcissist. So when a person has the misfortune to deal with an extremely problematic narcissist like a malignant narcissist they are not heard or believed. Causing more harm, shame and trauma. Also your examples at the beginning of the tell tale signs in my opinion are not good examples. Finding out someone said they drive a Tesla only to find out later they don't or that they claim to do all this volunteer work but actually don't are NOT subtle things that make someone have a gut feeling something is wrong but they can't put their finger on it. There's nothing subtle about those lies. Anyone can tell those kind of lies just to look good on social media. If that was the case 99% of those on social media are narcissist. All the examples you gave don't reflect the true manipulation they are capable of. Also I think the focus is too much on trying to figure out what kind of narcissists you may be dealing with or this idea that they can shift from grandiose to covert and vice versa. Which by the way I completely disagree but that's me. Again we are focusing on the wrong things. Because can you tell the difference between a grandiose narcissist and a jerk? Someone can just be a jerk or a$$hole but that doesn't automatically make them a grandiose narcissist. I think it's too much effort and wasted time trying to label someone the correct term when at the end of the day who the hell cares?? All that matters is that people are hurt and go thru so much mental problems, health problems, etc. from a narcissist and we should focus on them and their recovery. We should focus on recognizing the victims/survivors of narcissists and offering them help than worrying about identifying the narcissist and which category they are from.
The best solution to avoid all undesirables is to simply avoid everybody. The desired company and good people are going to be in the minority anyway. Thus, you will not miss out on the companionship of a lot of good people. However, you will not be within the proximity of the undesirables. The sacrifice of not having good people in your life is offset by not having evil people in your life as well. It is far worth the sacrifice. For every 100 bad people, there is only 1 good person anyway. The odds of coming in contact with a negative person are so high that it does not justify looking for a good person. I have had no friends, no girlfriend, no acquaintances, but also no negative people, in my life since 8 August 2000. It is, worth it.
You are not living life, you are simply floating through it. Quality friends are the true treasures of this world. They are the gift that keeps on giving
@@donsolos Other humans do not define my quality of life. I do not base my life on interpersonal social associations, interactions, nor bonds. There is no way I am going to dredge through 100 people that could do a lot of damage to my existence just to find one good person that would make a good candidate as an amicable or amorous association and bond. It is not worth risking that much damage to my existence to merely find a friend or girlfriend. Deleting the social aspect of my existence was the best thing I have ever done I my life. You have assumed I have had friends and a girlfriend in my past. You are incorrect. I have only had a fake girlfriend and false friends that were being controlled by my fake girlfriend. They took a lot of my belongings and income, and desire for human companionship. The 30th of December 1998 to the 8th of August 2000 at 18:34 were the most emotionally confusing and painful of my existence. It was all due to human companionship, and the ruse of amicable and amorous relationships. I can not detect the difference between someone that may be genuinely interested in me and those that are social predators looking for their next socially inexperienced victim to take all they can. Human companionship will never define the quality of my life again. With no humans in my life I have gained so much. I am far more self-reliant, independent, resourceful, creative, physically healthy, and have more free time than the social humans. My way of life has been completely restructured to exist without amicable nor amorous associations nor interactions. The desire for interpersonal, social, exchanges and associations no longer exists. To be honest, I fear it and feel rather disgusted of the thought of it. Not all people are social nor accepted into human herds nor accepted as worthy companions. I have accepted that is who I am. Now, life is much better and far simpler.
Hi, I’ve read both your original comment & your reply to a person who commented: my reason for replying is I totally understand, I myself am nourished by knowledge, ideas (human via abstracted route : books/web) our wonderful planet/world, nature - most people it appears are ego driven irrational creatures, who have to be the subject - however I exist, & I am sure there must be others, I am extremely benign, contained, non-emotive, serene but positive by nature & caring (although working on being less naive ie I am certainly been used etc) - point is, I exist & more i’s undoubtedly like mine do too, & I hope that whilst like me, you do not need others, that you may be surprised one day or two, & meet another or others, just a few, that welcome you, honour you & would never harm you for a moment.
@@Betulaaah It is doubtless that people, such as the ones you described, exist. However, they are in the extreme minority. In order to maximise the possibility of no interaction with undesirables, I chose to simply avoid interpersonal, social, interactions, and to remain disconnected from others. There is great difficulty in detecting genuinely benign individuals in the vast multitudes of negative people, especially today. The undesirables know how to speak, dress, and act, like the very rare benevolent individuals. With my inability to detect the fakes from the genuine benign people, social isolation is the only method that is safe to employ for avoiding the undesirables.
This is by far the best video I'seen on covert narcissism.
Omg my ex cherie was absolutely one of these, and I've always wondered why her ex took his own life!
I'm dismissive avoidant and can be egocentric.
Yet I do not identify with narc.
I try stay away from such behavior.
We instead shield our words, not to cause harm or be harmed.
I can be 'attracted' and attract narcs but I can also see them from afar.
Usually I want to be a good friend but often my sanity is more important.
My advice to them? Don't take yourself too seriously and consider prof help.
That, it's often not about you but them and your inability to see that causes havoc.
Same here. Do you find it hard to “love bomb” people? Or do you feel like you want them to give you so much attention and be there even when you are distant and cold? Sometimes I hate to show them that I love them or care about them. So I would reply to their messages after several hours but I try to avoid hurting them
Grandiose and vulnerable are 2 sides of the same coin
After the fact I saw the red flags but once the facade came down the gaslighting came out and I felt so sick at my stomach :(
His terminology’s I take lightly. No one source of terms in the topic seems to be sufficient. Just listen to your body….actually listen to your body….LISTEN
This is fascinating. I'm a licensed mental health clinician who was deeply confused by the relationship I was just in. It's like I was with a shell of a person, every now and again they'd reveal another shady piece of the puzzle - they'd deny me time, words of affirmation (they knew it was my love language), acted differently around others and I never had any idea what they were doing when we weren't together. It felt like they were acting, I never felt settled for longer than a short period of time. Ultimately I clipped the relationship off. I realized they were envious of my success and earning power - it's almost like they liked me but didn't. Very bizarre. It's like I've been doing a three year long assessment with intimate access to their inner workings - it's chilling - it's deeply disturbing - I finally pulled out my DSM and realized - YUP. They meet criteria in more ways than not. Gross. RUN PEOPLE RUN RUN RUN
I’ve been following you for years, always appreciatively! Bust gotta say I’m REALLY loving your new content! 🔥
That's why I don't give 2 Fs about them.
They know they can't mess with me emotionally when I don't care.
Man I watch one video on Narrissis. Now it's flooding my feed. I feel like all these people are narcissistic
Your videos are so good and help with a range understanding that methologies lack. Thank you
I always say that what an avoidant does is emotional abuse and neglect. They re not better then narcissists or psychopaths. Even from a narcissist you might got more validation then from an avoidant which will cruelly ignore and stonewall you whenever you start to be emotional. And an avoidant can be very well comorbid with narcissism or other PD
🎯
Good video, you got the spectrum wrong. It is not covert at one end and overt at the other end. Both are one the same side of the spectrum. The spectrum of narcissism is about being low on traits at one end and high on traits at the other end regardless of the variation of narcissism. Thank you
They can be incredibly cruel and criminal but they rarely get caught. Run, detach, save yourself and your kids if you have any. They will want revenge for things that they feel that have nothing to do with you. 😢❤
Really interesting take on this subject and very relatable.
Having been with a female covert as I exerted pressure on her true intentions 9months in those grandiose characteristics started to show.
Really enjoyed this video
Yup… everyone that met him taught he was “weird” I called him a robot. A no empathy having ruthless victim. Depending on the situation…it was misery and terrible! 🤯
My family kicked me out over this accusation OF BEING A NARCISSIST all the while trying to be the good guy YET destroying my life for their false perceptions. I stood up to em is all I’m guilty of besides trying valiantly to make a good relationship with my family. They never ever call:( they have no idea my life! I don’t ever care to be affiliated with these monsters in disguise ever again! My authentic self rubbed em raw! I guess I am supposed to act like they want AN EVER REVOLVING DOOR OF HOOPS AND TIGHT ROPES FOR YOU NOT THEM TO NAVIGATE! You never will be acceptable to a monster when you are a human being!
My youngest adult daughter is an evil narcissist. She stressed out my husband, her father, so bad that he started crying uncontrollably and asking what he did wrong, raising her, over and over, then he collapsed and took his last breath. He died of a broken heart. I blame her for his death. I went no contact with her. It's been 4 and a half years, and I have been destroyed beyond repair. Living a horrible nightmare. I struggle with the same thoughts. She plays the victim and has me as the bad person. All my family and friends have abandoned me, including our oldest daughter. I don't know what I did wrong raising her. It must have been my fault somehow. So, I am being punished to live a life of misery. So confused 😕 I know I am a good person. Everyone always came first before me. I was the one who went without, either it be food, clothes or whatever they needed.
We don't know covert Narcissism because we see it as they are Passive-aggressive. We recognize this behavior. But not understanding the broad spectrum of behaviors that fall under it. Hidden abusive tactics.
uncanny valley = The Voight-Kampff test was a test used by the LAPD's Blade Runners to assist in determining whether or not an individual was a replicant.
It’s all true . I am a 44 year old mom of two , recently divorced after 20 years of abuse , culminating with a cervix cancer ( HPV virus) , brought home by my ex .
So , yeah , it’s a real danger , believe me !
Bless all you good souls out there !❤
18 years. Just connected the dots last week. I feel shattered and vulnerable. Why didn’t anybody say anything or tell me. 18 years, I trusted him with my life
As this week has gone by I have more and more realization and it makes me sick, very intensely.
I want to tell the one friend I have left but I’m scared she won’t believe me. Or that no one would believe how bad it was.
It was bad guys. And worst of all I was discarded and was on a phenomenal positive trajectory.
He hovered (I think is the terminology) and I’m so embarrassed to say I believed his bs and I let him move back into my house.
It’s so draining and isolating. Why didn’t I see this.
Who developed the test? This is an important question,and please dont be fooled into thinking that taking one obsecure test is going to furnish you with the gospel on any subject.
If you’re trying to get diagnosed you should always go to a psychologist. A test online isn’t a good indication, I think that was one of Chris’s points on that one.
@@jenniferbyrne4567 agree, even the psychologists have difficulty diagnosing it because they can seem sincere especially if you don't know the person; they're good actors. It's the only clinical condition that makes life and work almost impossible for everyone else around them yet not themselves.
You will feel off- you won't be able to put your finger on why- but you will feel off.