Was Paul The Founder Of Christianity? - Debate - Shabir Ally V.S. Dr. V. George Shillington
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Was Paul The Founder Of Christianity? - Debate - Shabir Ally V.S. Dr. V. George Shillington
Shabir Ally:
Shabir Ally holds a B.A. in Religious Studies from Laurentian University in Sudbury,Ontario, with a specialization in Biblical Literature, and an M.A. in Religious Studies from the University of Toronto with a specialization in Quranic Exegesis. He is now nearing completion of his PhD thesis in Quranic Exegesis at the University of Toronto.
He is the president of the Islamic Information & Dawah Centre International in Toronto where he functions as Imam. He travels internationally to represent Islam in public lectures and interfaith dialogues. He explains Islam on a weekly television program called 'Let the Quran Speak'. Past episodes of this show can be seen online at:www.quranspeaks.com.
Alhamdulillah, Shabir Ally for the clear explanation. I am glad that I stumbled across your earlier speech and lectures. I am following you current channel. May Allah be Pleased with you effort.
All my Christian brothers and sister please have a second look!!!
Jamshed Khokhar
read john 5:30.
I BELIEVES in WHAT JESUS
(PBUH).HIMSELF SAYS.
Not his DISCIPLES.and none of DISCIPLES has no LAST NAMES??
Mone of Paul john mark Mathew..... Seen JESUS.!
Fyi
Quran 9 : 30-33
He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
"And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
"(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
"So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!
Jesus clearly states that he is a servant of God.
Jesus never said that. In fact, per ur profit, he said Jesus was moses’ nephew. The real Jesus said that He and the Father are One. Is allh a father? Nope
@@temporaryaccount5307 that’s what “John and Paul” (actually unknown authors just wrote that
@@abdisaleh8841 lol is that ur way of avoiding answering how ur “all knowing god” and profit made such a mistake? And unknown authors? Is that why u said “John and Paul said that?” Smh Tell me who wrote ur endless array of Qs. I’ll wait.
What a great debate cum dialogue. Enjoyed it. Best of Shabir and Best George came out. Praise be to God.
Paul is the founder because Jesus did not teach Christianity. Jesus loyal followers were not happy with the hijacking, called him being deceived Satan.
Abdul Rahman St. Peter and St. Paul preached the same thing, and St. Peter gave St. Paul his full endorsement. They were suspicious of him at first, because he used to be a vehement persecutor of the early Christians, prior to his own conversion.
Yaa.. Jesus never did mention/say or spread Christianity.. he knows nothing about the religion of Christianity
He equalled himself with God by uttering those words; that was what pissed the San Hedrin off, not only that his actions also pissed them off; healing people on the Sabbath was totally against their religious rules, making new commandments and proclaiming new rules and telling people what God really wanted as opposed to what the religious leaders wanted....this in totality is further affirmation that Jesus is God, and that he is one with the Father and the Helper, so the 1 God is still intact
Kneeling - 1 Kings 8:54; Daniel 6:10 (and prayed three times per day); Acts 7:60; 20:36; Ephesians 3:14; Philippians 2:9-11.
Standing - 2 Chronicles 20:5. Facedown - Numbers 16:22; 20:6; Joshua 5:14; Revelation 7:11. Hands Raised - Psalms 134:2 141:2....nothing about your way
yes Paul is the Founder of christianity
So you do not believe what the Koran teaches? You, the guy with the silly name is able to proclaim that which has been around for thousands of years and been confirmed by the Koran and endless scholars over antiquity are able to just tell us all previous Abrahamic teachings about God are a result of one man, Paul. Wow your arrogance will send you to hell.
Aisha and warka was founder of Islam🤣 and don’t forget satanic verses😆
Tijani - Paul is not founder of christianity - he is the founder of Paulianity. There is no religion called christianity. At least Jesus never preached it. The modern so called 'christianity' is a amalgamated version of Roman paganism and Paul's doctrines.
@Tony Ang so ur Arab speaking Christian Brothers worship Satan cause they call God as Allah😂
@@jamalkhan3708 where the hell did u get that ignorant finding 😂🤦♂️
Jesus fills you with SO much peace, love, and joy, that you wouldn’t even begin to imagine. Jesus WILL change your life for the better! Every day I wake up and willingly praise Him because of all the love He constantly shows me and provides me with. Jesus Christ is Lord; through Him you'll definitely make it to Heaven. He’s the only way to Heaven. Real worship comes from an intense burning desire within you - it’s not something you do just because you think it’s mandatory. God bless you all. :)
To confirm if "Speculation" or not needs proof, not mere words from unknown people!
Since Muslims can’t pick on Jesus Christ because Jesus is Muslims prophet, and perfect sinless man with out any faults. So just to defend Mohammed they pick Paul. So pathetic.
This act is reflective of course in how humanity can be tempted; Yeshua was faced with turning against God but resisted, this is how he teaches us to be, who else is perfect enough to totally resist evil ? Who else is perfect enough to make the perfect message ? It makes complete sense the deeper we go into this whole concept
I was responding to a comment already made, the Trinitarian command is in the Bible several times the command to baptise in the name (singular) of Father, Son and Holy Spirit for example, and the prayer most often used by Islam is the Shema, but of course the Shema actually refers to a unitarian God, check the echad and yachid
Dr shabir - calm n composed
Great debate!
So , to avoid the conflict of "favouritism " , the Prophet PBUH him ordered form or his camel to decide the locate by letting it walk and settle in the place that it naturally chooses . This wisdom from the prophet relied solely on his camel solved the problem . ( this was a lesson time for you ) .
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* Where in the Bible do you see the riding of the camel Prophecy being fulfilled ?
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who in the Bible was the prophet that rode the camel to full the prophecy of Isaiah 21:7 ?
Have you read the parable of the Prodigal son ? This gives you an idea which is easy to comprehend. There are pointers ... it's like the "wet paint- do not touch" sign ... don't eat of the tree in the middle of the garden..that line has been used so many times in comedy routines, it is about our human nature. The big picture is that mankind doesn't take guidance, makes an arse of things, a saviour comes and saves everyone, think of Superman; Star Wars as they used this idea as picture form
We praise the Lord for His wonderful salvation. God the Son became Man and died upon a cross, taking upon Himself the punishment for our sins. When an individual puts his faith in Christ as Saviour, God cleanses and forgives him, and gives him the gift of eternal life (Jn. 3:16; Eph. 1:7).
Christians affirm that there is only One God, not three gods. The doctrine of the trinity states that there is One God in whom there are three subsistent relations (i.e., persons)."Person" does not refer to a "god" in the doctrine of the trinity. We do not believe that there is One God and Three gods; but One God within whom there are three subsistent relations, or eternal modes of relationship.
"UNLESS, we sincerely repent before God and ask for His forgiveness" - when do you think a woman who commited adultary sincerely repent before GOD and ask for HIS forgiveness? after the 1st or 20th stone ? why does not GOD forgive her?
Great philosophers like Avicenna and Aquinas did this long ago for Islam and Christianity respectively; if God is beyond our understanding how else do we come to know him at all in any way ?
And it is perfectly logical; it was in ancient Greece that logic was debated so well and often and is the foundation of Philosophy in modern terms. The whole Arostotelian Prime Mover was dealing with a creator that was either involved or had let the world "free wheel" in effect. It is illogical to suggest that if there is a God, he/she would not be able to be involved in the creation; effectively by his act of creation he has already been involved, and since there is no time in God, is involved
Dude it is very clear!
even if u pray 5 or 5000 times it is useless, if you dont follow what I said i.e love ur neighbours as u love urself!
understand?
By the way...in context...Romans..the great irony is that this is written of course by Paul..you accuse him of being a liar but use the words attributed to him..and out of context..so is he a liar or telling the Truth ?
using ONE camera is boring. it would be interesting to show the other human being in the room!how they interact, body language, facial movements, etc.
No; it isn't polytheism. The doctrine of the trinity consists in there being One God in three Persons or subsistent relations. Polytheism is the belief that there is more than one "god", not that within the eternal being of the one God there is three eternal modes of subsistent relations.
Absolutely no problem to answer you. The first one is analogy; very simple and straightforward and you answer it yourself; God showed his love for his creation in a manner that would be easily understood in the time of the day (1st born son) and of today in many cases. 2nd & 3rd, as Jesus is God in human form, did give of himself, but in a way to conquer death (mortality) for US..not for himself; this is salvation of course, 4thly,God didn't kill his Son...we did, and he accepted if freely
The Father gives of himself completely for both his sons in the parable; this was what God did in coming to earth as man, in amongst his creation; God did not kill God...we killed him as already stated...we do that every time we turn away from God. The Father sacrifices the lamb to celebrate the retunr of the prodigal son, but never...never... rebukes him or has wrath or anger against him...never...so you have a complete loving Father God...See that ?
That is no description..... what does he look like ? Describe him to me ? Those words are similiar to what is used in the Creed in Catholicism...but you have not described him so that I would know him (or her) if God were to come here on Earth
There is no confusion or contradiction in the Trinity...unless you want it to be so; you only need to relate to the analogy of yourself which is a good analogy..aren't we made in his image ? You can use the term of Love which is also important sinced we believe God is Love. If you love your parents and love your children and love your wife...what love is it you use ? Is that 3 different Love's .... or the same ?
The key to this is contained in His words, after the Resurrection: "I ascend to my Father and to your Father" (John 20:17). He always spoke of MY Father, never of OUR Father. He said to the disciples: "Thus then shall YOU pray: Our Father", etc. He everywhere draws the clearest possible distinction between the way in which God was His Father and in which He was the Father of all creatures.
Lords prayer
"Pray then like this: 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
John 14:1-4 “Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And you know the way where I am going.”
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
I've read parts of the Koran; I studied under Jesuit Priests; 1 could read and speak Hebrew and Greek and lived in the Holy Land for many years; one of the others had the Koran as his 2nd favourite Holy Book ...my view is that the Koran is very Old Testament in style; for me..Jesus trumps all because of his inclusiveness and his message being unique and eternal ... but that is only my view; you of course are entitled to yours
I'm not caring or asking you to believe; I am just stating my case against your claims and pointing out where you have misinterpreted the scriptures. Jesus was worshipped, from the moment he was born, the Magi came to worship him and there are various comments in the Bible about worshipping Jesus
Therefofre...your parents will love you as a Son, your children will love you as a Father and your colleagues will love you as a Friend...in each case you are still you....you have not changed one bit....not one iota...therefore it makes no difference whether you are loved as either of the 3. That is the simple and relevant and accurate analogy
You have not even begun to understand what Christians believe about Jesus. The Christian teaching is that Jesus is "truly God and truly man". You have understood the first part of this statement but not the second ("truly man"). Within the one person of Jesus there are two natures- one divine and the other human. The nature of a thing determines how we speak about that thing. Since Christ has two natures we have two ways of speaking about him. Think about it.
How can the human part not be part of God ? I suggest that ALL there is ...is God..we all go back to God in the end; this is our journey from God to God, plus there is that part of you; your very soul made by God that is beyond corruption and is part of God. This is what the message of Yeshua in the Bible is; God will never shun us or turn away
These are not assumptions; Jesus himself was questioned all the time, this is apparent in the Gospels, and there were plenty of questions by other religions before Islam came to be, the history of the Church and the Gospels record them. It is clear from my response to you on Mark for example that you misread or misunderstood the meaning, these were known before Islam just as issues like Genesis not being literal were know long before as well
It is the same with the prayer he taught us; Our Father who art in heaven etc, but of course he precedes it with...this is how we should pray...it is instructional. Do you think the early Christians didn't check these things ? Of course they did, they were being asked similiar questions then as now; Atheism is older than Christianity, for goodness sake have you ever read the Classics ? The ancient Greek philosophers debated this type of thing hundreds of years before Jesus
According to the NT , only fulfils the riding of the donkey prophecy in John 12:14 , and it claims that it only fulfilled that prophecy . There is still a missing fulfilment of the riding of the camel in the New Testament .
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Perhaps you can ask that HOLY GOAT of yours to answer you this question and my two challenges about if it was not Muhammed PBUH !
And yet at the same time you wish to question the intellect of the people who were with Jesus, the ones who walked and talked with him, and who were involved with the Apostles; the Apostles who Jesus commanded to baptise in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit; the Trinity quite clearly from the lips of JC, and all long beofre Islam came to be
You have shown zilch before; the I AM is used by the Jews, it is recorded as such by the Jews; their history reflects what took place and it is this very claim that made such a significance throughout the Gospels; it is implied in just about everything Jesus does and says; Peters lineage is recorded also; his trip to Rome and other places; the evidence to support the Bible is actually overwhelming in comparison to Historical events as taight by educational establishment
And also as already said; the Christians of the time were challenged; God has always been questioned; Atheism is older than both Christianity and Islam, people were asking similiar questions then as you do today, the evidence to support the Trinity and Jesus is overwhelming in it's entirety...but you still never answered one question...are you a son to your parents; brother to your sister; friend to your colleagues ? Peace be with you too
On the Holy Spirit, as with all the other prayers, there is a whole host of them..for example...Act of Consecration to the Holy Spirit
On my knees before the great multitude of heavenly witnesses, I offer myself soul and body to Thee, Eternal Spirit of God. I adore the brightness of Thy purity, the unerring keenness of Thy justice, and the might of Thy love....which is just the start of one paryer to the Holy Spirit
Letters written by Paul in the Bible and you still insist is the word of God?
In terms of prayer, it is very helpful when we can relate to Jesus as the human part of God; we can relate to a unique and perfect person with human traits .. this can be good in prayer and thought as we have the most perfect human to copy and reflect upon. That is unique in itself just like the message; an identifiable deity ... that very fact brings God closer to us in prayer terms
Scholars also belief the the gospels according to Matthew and Luke copied many of Mark and other oral sayings the (Q-Source). You keep saying that Jesus(pbuh) used that term "I am" that's a obvious lie as i clearly have shown before.
Its no secret that the Gospels what were written after the influence of Paul have contradicting statements about Jesus(pbuh) being either human or God. Why do you think the Council of Jeruslam, James, Peter and so forth didn't like the Hellizantion sects and Paul?
God said he will preserve Zikr(Quran),but for gospel and Torah,He entrusted the messengers and Jewish scholars to preserve them,but they didn't.
so when do you think a woman who commited adultary or a man who stole truelly repent and ask forgiveness? after the 1st or 20th stone? or just before the blade comes to cut off the arm? dont you think these people regret what they have done? Why does who sees the heart not forgive them? According to you, you just ask forgiveness and GOD will forgive you..why does HE not forgive these people? Because they have to be punished? what about you? did you ever steal? did you ever lie? is that justice?
Yes, but does the doctrine of the trinity posit three "gods"? No! One God in Three Persons! Remember that "person" in the ancient world didn't mean "a center of self-consciousness", as it does today, but it meant someone like a "mask worn in Greco-Roman theatre". Therefore, we can say that God is One but within the One Being there is Three Modes of eternal subsistent relation. Christians worship ONE God in three subsistent relations. That's NOT polytheism.
You are that analogy...you are 1 person who is seen differently by other people...and yet you are the 3 different persons in this relationship..the analogy is very very simple...even the atheists accept this analogy, just as they accept the analogy of water in 3 forms; liquid, steam and ice...just the same
People don't read the scriptures man,, You put it very well redbenss.. Thanks man, May God give people a good eye and understanding to seek the truth
Christ is the basis of Christianity ... that is how it has the name, Peter and Paul are the two main pillars of Christianity, their statues are at the Vatican, one with the keys of heaven and the other with the book of God, all this was well known on sound Theological and Historical basis long before Islam came to be
Afraid you are wrong about Jesus being claimed as God; this took place at the time; He claimed it, Thomas proclaimed it, the San Hedrin wanted him crucified for claiming it, his miracles testify to it, the Apostles reacted to it, his command to them was confirmation of it and by the time it got to Nicea there was other Theological issues being addressed and confirmed...the truth was already known..all they did was ratify it; Jesus as God was the foundation of the Apostles preaching Christianity
Now we can go deeper in theology; Thomas Aquinas in the middle ages is the great doctor of the Catholic Church, at the time his great Summa's went into God and humanity and mankind in miniute detail. Issues such as the esse' of each individual being were covered as well as that of God; a vast work on God....the bottom line is that in the Trinity...the essence of God remains; just as in you. You are still you whether you are brother, friend or son. It works perfectly. God is still God
So, to the Hebrews, this term I AM is clearly of such significance; Jesus uses it sevral times when giving great discourse; I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE, etc and all these are well known long before Islam came to be. It is when Jesus uses these two words that Caiphas tears his cloak, a reflection of tearing the temple veil and is an affirmation from Jesus own mouth as to who he believed he was; all known and understood even by the atheists, long before Islam was here
Jesus had a body, was a real person, was worshipped and is relevant to mankind, he was dark skinned and brown eyed with black hair we can assert; given the location and time where he came from, but that he was real is undoubtedly true ... and we can legitimately pray to him since he is God and part of the Trinity...simple
If Dr.Shabir is unable to comprehend the scriptures,then who would?!Jesus(puh) was rejected by the Jews because he called for equality and virtues which would conflict their interests.Many Jewish scholars know the truth that Muhammad is the last messenger of God,and the Jewish rabbi Bahira in the time of Muhammad verified Muhammad when he was 9-12 and confirmed he is the future great prophet.
I'm really not interested in converting anyone, if you are happy in your beliefs and harm no-one and help others then that is good, I'm sure there are atheists who live better than a lot of the most religious people...of all faiths. This is certainly the meaning of the parable of the Good Samaritan and it applies today.
Not in my book and most certainly not in the words and actions of Jesus, that he reached out to the gentiles and sent his apostles to baptise in the name (singular) of Father, Son and Holy Spirit ( a Trinitarian command) is clear indication of where his mission was. The evidence to substantiate this is overwhelming in it's entirety when read in context throughout the Bible
God did not come to undersdatnd how man works; he knows full well, he came to show us how to be...this is the point and this is the claim
Again your making a fallacy. The word should be translated as I shall be on the specific verse that quoted so it doesn't reflect the one of Moses(pbuh) at all and this has noting to do with Islam i could have been a atheist and still refuted your claim.
Let rephrase my question how would you define God by hes attributes right? Now if something a human-being or a other being does not have those attributes can we call that person or being still a god since those attributes make you god.
There is no false start; don't know where you got that from, it is just separateness from God, you've used "a mistake" as the human term instead; just very similiar. The story of A&E is trhoughout the Bible; repentance is a big issue in both the OT & NT, John the Baptist for example, a very important figure. The other thing is that God would love us during our sinfulness; this Jesus clearly advised; love the sinner..not the sin; there is a difference between that and a vengeful Old Test God
So Jesus is god, yeah? & he died for our sins , correct? That means God died? Is there any limitations to sin? If I murder someone & when convicted I tell the jury/judge that Jesus already paid for my sins so let me go free, tell me the reaction from the judge??? He/she will say take this guy to a phyciatrist treatment so if such a sin is not pardon on JC account then do you think it will be accepted on the day of judgement ????
The
you did a conclusion from a statement without any logic, if the god we are talking about is the creator then he is not part of the creation god can't be associate with anything he create. who we know that simple : god was there before the creation. if god created something wish is part of him like you are saying than god right know is different from god before the creation because the creation is not eternal so if it is a part from his then he is not eternal to because a part from him is not.
why god not forgive adam sin??God is forgiven. Adam seek forgiven from god,,is so cruel god not give forginess to adam??
And of course Jesus giving of himself...freely in the way he did...is like giving your life for your children...who wouldn't do that ? This is the real message as proclaimed by JC, love the Lord your God and the next is nearly the same, love your neighbour as yourself...everyone covered there; we just need to practise it now...good luck to those of faith and none
There is no contradiction in praying to the Trinity, God the Father, God the Son or God the Holy Spirit...they are the same unique quality in each.... Your religion claims to have 99 attributes to your God...Allah, so we can say...is that 99 attributes that are different ? Do they detract from Allah if one is missing ? Is one particular attribute better or stronger or more necessary that the other ?..See where this leads ?
I suggest it does, man didn't listen too weel when God was a burning bush and the commandments written on stone; how else would he show us "how to be" other than to be human ? Yeshua was foretold in the prophecies, so in effect the covenant God made with man ( a special one) was kept by God...but not man, so it makes complete sense for God to take whatever form he wishes and the best form for us as a "role model" is as the perfect man...Jesus, this is the concept and it makes complete sense.
I think other religioins or faith use similiar precedents; Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses claim similiar to yourself in the use of Words, so I reject that hypothesis you suggest; you would need to pray in the synagogue to follow your line of thought up to the time Muhammad came; what did you do before that ?
have you seen actually this video before commenting on it?? how do you respond to the fact that all this statement are from johns gospel the last one who is different from the 3 others. that mean that there is a improvement in the story about jesus thats why the word trinity is not in the bible, jesus prayed as muslims according to the bible, and the best commandment according to jesus is that god is one. notice not 3 in one not 1 in 3.
I understood your comment, I just don't accept it or agree, there are certain things we can say are against God; i.e: being or doing evil for example, but for God to take on the whatever form he wishes, in the OT he was portrayed as a burning bush by Moses, this offended no-one but when we suggest a man; as Yeshua claims, it is seen as abhorrent but not to Christianity since it was founded on this fact and long before Islam came to be; there is no contradiction I suggest that is incompatible
you do know that jesus said that after his resurrection also he said to my god and your god he never said our god which means he has a different relationship with the father and as for Mark 12:29 go to listen to learned Christian you will get your answer same with Matthew 7:21-23
It is not Mythology, it is Philosophy, you are getting them mixed up, for goodness sake the Classics and democracy came from Greece during this period, it was why Greek literature and Philosophy was still important in the times of the Roman Empire. You clearly do not understand the meaning of that part of Mark; Jesus knows "the man is false"...he was patronising to Jesus and he saw right through him, this was why he said why call me good; it was a rhetorical slap on the wrist to the man
Something beyond the reach of God ? Surely there cannot be anything beyond the "reach of God"...it appears he can come as a burning bush...you have no objection to that ? The figure of Jesus has always been promoted as the "perfection of mankind"...probably what God would actually be..perfection, so..either God can be as God wishes...or not
Everything I have written is relevant, true and makes sense, we are going over here issues such as Jesus being God and the Trinity which were all investigated and debated long before Islam came to be; Atheism and other God were around then; the birth of intellectual debating was ancient Greece where the creation by God (s) or none was thought and written and talked about, there are historical records to show what happened during the early Christian history other than the Bible
Well you would need first of all not to lie or be deceptive; we both know this is allowed in Islam... and don't get upset...I don't allow anyone to upset me irrespective of what they say or claim or imply, apart from that all is okay
And it is clear from the proposal you made for example with Mark that the Islamic interpretation is to suit Islam, so it depends on what way you wish to interpret it, but clearly the answer provided from the Christian view trumps the Islamic one, just as the idea of Jesus as God does also, but of course this was not reached in order to upset Islam; it wasn't around then, it was reached as an experience of living Jesus and what he claimed as well as acted out.
This is the point; a loving Father would give of himself...this is another structure to support Jesus as God, as if there aren't enough anyway. On the issue of Original Sin, this is defined as separateness from God. Of course all these thinhs have been debated and prayed and were well known long before Islam came to be; the Apostles claimed Jesus to be God, he did it himself by equality with God and the miracles and events testify to it as well
Why would he call them Chariot ? Where does Chariot and this prophesy lead to Muhammad or Jesus ? What happens to the Horses in this Prophecy ? Is it only a half filled Prophecy ? This passage is about Babylon...read it ALL .. not just lines out of context to suit your limited lunatic claims
That's the uniqueness of the Trinity; God as spirit...Jesus as man and God...and the Holy Spirit within us; just as you are man and your soul is spirit ... or don't you think you have a soul ?
ok look, you are just making assumptions 1) someone already response to all questions 2) that ''they'' are right. but i can also tell you well muslims have already consider christianity but they already respond to it before any english version of the bible ever existed. but will you accept this statement without proof? if no i don't accept yours for same reason if yes well you have to be a muslim.
And all of this was known long before Islam came to be. It is not enough just use the odd line out of context as so many do; it is not enough to apply Islam to the Bible when it was the Hebrew society we have to know; issues such as "turn the other cheek" .. do you know what the social and historical context of it is ?
The I am was a miss translation it should have been i shall be according to translators also it would mean nothing it simply could mean that Jesus(pbuh) was created first in a spiritual form then Abraham(pbuh).
More ever the nature of god being all-knowing and so forth contradicts him being human. Its like saying that a circle can be a square.
And that part you quote from Romans is about the fact that God only is essentially true. All men in their own capacity are liable to lies and errors: nevertheless God, who is the truth, will make good his promise of keeping his church in all truth, cross ref: John 16:13 for example. What chance have you got when trying to pick out these issues that were addressed long before Islam came to be...None..This idea of Jesus as God was not to get at the Muslims...you weren't around then..it was a truth
Catholic Schools over here are sought after; many Muslims actually choose to send their children to them rather that the state school; fact here in Scotland. Jesuit teaching is also sought after by religious and non religious; another fact, there is a waiting list for the Jesuit Schools over here.; so we can dispense with that aspect. The children do understand it; it is very simple, do you deny you are a son to your parents; a brother to your sister or a friend to your colleagues ?
His expressions clearly prove that He claimed to be of the same nature with God; and His claims to Divine Sonship are contained very clearly in the Synoptic Gospels, "Did you not know, that I must be about my father's business" (Luke 2:49); "Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven,
Dying is of course for Man....Jesus came to show Mankind he can overcome death...this is the great story of the ressurection...Death is finally overcome for Mankind; this great fear (still prevalent today) was overcome by.." the creator "..the only one it could be..simple...unless you are a Muslim of course
Prophet Isaiah PBUH , prophesied that TWO leaders , whom he called " CHARIOT " would come -- one riding a donkey , and another riding a camel ;
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" And he saw a chariot with A COUPLE OF HORSEMEN , A CHARIOT OF ASSES , AND A CHARIOT OF CAMELS ;and he hearkened diligently with much heed " Isaiah 21:7
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Who are the " couple of horsemen "? They are Jesus & Muhammed PBUH.
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Proofs :
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Jesus fulfilled the riding of the donkey prophecy ( John 12:14) - "as it is written " in Isaiah 21:7
no my friend look. jesus, moises, mohammed, preached one true god creator, and to be a creator you can not be a creation in other words god is not in his creating !! if he was that mean that god is different know from what he was before the creation. tell me were jesus said '' god is in his creation or we are god ''. you have a polytheist point of view on who god is.
According to the Islamic history , the city of Mecca ( Parran / Beca ) was liberated by Prophet Muhammed's 10,000 men -armywithout any blood shed .
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Since these prophecies were foretold in the OT , here is a challenge for you Three gods Worshipper
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Where in the Bible do you see any Prophet executing the Judgment of GOD specifically in the city of Paran the city of Abraham , or make it easy for you , any city in the Bible that was liberated by 10,000 believing men if it is not Muhammed ?
Jeremiah 49: 19:“Like a lion coming up from Jordan’s thickets
to a rich pastureland,
I will chase Edom from its land in an instant.
Who is the chosen one I will appoint for this?
Who is like me and who can challenge me?
And what shepherd can stand against me?”If Jesus was God,then God is lying according to this verse.In this verse God says nobody can prosecute him,but according to you,he was prosecuted.
The same God said that nobody can change the words of the god.
Similarly , everything in the world , from the minute whirling electron to the mighty nebulae , invariably follows its own laws . Matter , energy and life - all obey their laws and grow and change and live and die in accordance with those laws .Even in the human world the laws of nature are paramount .
Man's birth , growth and life are all regulated by a set of biological laws . He derives sustenance from nature in accordance with the unalterable law .
God already made us in his "image and likeness"...it is the worship of the idol that is the problem (think TV stars or sports stars) as opposed to their "Attributes" ...this is the difference. You keep walking into walls
you mean to point out its God's mistake that he has chosan the wrong messengers..!!Your comment is strange and you are blaming God too..!!!!!
ISLAM , in fact , is an attribute .Anyone who possess this attribute , whatever race , community , country or group he belongs to , is a MUSLIM . According to the irrefutable verbatim words of ALLAH " Al-Qur'an " , among every people and in all ages there have been good and righteous people who possessed this attribute -and all of them were and are MUSLIMS.
It was a Truth revealed to those who were there and witnessed it; the whole book was well known long before Islam came to be; it was in response to the Jewish promise of a Saviour; only they wanted a warrior King, instead we got an ordinary man...How happy everyone shuld be at that Good News...you don't need to be of Royal Blood, Rich or Famous, King or Courtier....just an ordinary human being who showed us how to Love God ....and who best to do that ???? Answer... self explanatory, and why?
I do understand, I understand that the claim "I AM" is what was so blasphemous to the Hebrews it was enough to have Jesus crucified, you have to know the history of the Hebrews to comprehend how sacreligious this claim is. The proof is in the Bible as recorded, the proof is in the History of the Church, our first Pope was Peter as recorded by the apostles and claimed by Jesus, the proof is in the response from the people, in the acts of the Apostles sent forth to baptise ..
The analogy is correct; your understanding of the definition of analogy is incorrect. God is a mystery in entirety; we all accept that, there are no words to describe him (or her) and that is why the Jews/Hebrews didn't have a name for him and it was blasphemous to use any term...and it was God claiming his name as "I AM WHO I AM" in the OT that leads to Jesus equating himself with God and then being crucified for it...every time you turn a corner you end up adding more evidence to support it