Gain Structure | FOH Masterclass ft Robert Scovill | Hillsong Creative Audio Training
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- Опубліковано 27 лют 2023
- A short excerpt of a Front of House audio masterclass ft special guest Robert Scovill
www.robertscovill.com
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Almighty master of sound u need 1 mic for students.
News flash: he’s not the one that set up the video shoot.
Having heard his work over the decades, I can assure that He does know what he is talking about. During presentations like this, it would be nice to insert the screen image that he is referring to, thus enabling a clearer explanation of the process. Also, If a question or answer is offered, it would also help to restate said comment for the remote listener. I have used the same approach and understanding of concept for over 10 years with digital and agree that this is valid on all counts.
Where can I see the full masterclass?
A lot of subtle wisdom packed in 20 min. Love the simple, practical thought process.
Robert is by far the best at explaining gain
Excellent argument. Agree 100%
As a reference, the signal to noise on a 2" tape machine is in the area of 11-12 bit.
Thanks
Hi Robert, i have met you twice in India.
But, your explanation of consoles bulit optimsed to line level signal is the best i have come across.
Three weeks back, i did my best to expalin to my team on the concept of dealing with a line level signal and mic level signal.
It also explains why many programmed drums and synrhs sounded as they due low bit rate..
¹😊you q⁰the
Where are the class notes 4 this Scovil? Or PDF
A few bookmarks for me:
Some great reasons to keep the bit depth high: 9:04
So, when is the signal at line level exactly... when the RMS at the input gain meter is properly set or when in addition to that the channel fader is also at unity?
You'd start with the faders at unity (initially) to ensure full resolution of the signals. Then, gain stage your signals to reach the "line level" of +4dBu (0dBVU on a voltage meter) by driving gain into the signal with the preamp. That's the "sweet spot." This level is roughly equivalent to 0dBVU on an analog voltage meter or -18dBFS on a meter within a digital environment like a DAW. Your signal's average should hover around this spot on your meters. Some meters--like those in some DAWs--show RMS. In that case, this is also where you could stage the signals, especially if you are working with any analog hardware or plugins. For live sound, you'll be looking to get weaker signals like a "mic line" boosted up to the +4dBu target.
i know this is like a year later...but is there a way were i can get those notes on the screen just because i want to keep it like in a pdf or somethig
Did you go to Berklee, 1983?
I gained alot of good info :)
I see what you did there! 😬
So if 0dB is 24-bit, what is it when the drummer flams the snare and it +6dB?
I believe he was referring to 0 dBFS being 24 bits but dBU at 0 is 21 bits. He kinda jumped between scales in the moment you’re referring to.
you mean audio group is the sub group?
what about the difference in voltage
in Line level , Mic level , and Instrument level?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but...
Line level = ~1V (about 1V of signal)
Inst Level = (basically anywhere in between)
Mic level = mV (milliVolts of signal)
Line level = around 1 volts + low to medium impedance (from several ohms to about 1-2k)
Mic level = below 50mV + low impedance (most are less than 300 ohms)
Instrument level = high impedance(10k to 1M), the voltage varies - Passive single-coil guitars produces weaker signals, while active-pickup metal guitars and electro-acoustic guitars can pump out voltages close to line level
Forgive my ignorance here, but what is in fact the difference between a VCA and a "master subgroup" that he describes near the end? Are they just the same thing, but one is pre and the other is post fader or something?
Main difference between a VCA (called DCA on a Digital Console) is that on a VCA when you move the fader it is the same as adjusting all the Faders individually in that VCA group where with a Control Group you are simply just adjusting the master volume that's being sent to that Control Group.
My problem is that many digital consoles only have DCA's and not Control Groups so you don't have the option. Unless a Matrix can do the same job?
@jacomeintjes9709 I have yet to see a digital console that doesn't have groups options available. Which console have you used that doesn't have this feature?
@@conorm2524 The Yamaha TF series mixer does not have subgroups. The closest thing you could do on those is send your channels to an Aux Send, and then use that Aux as a subgroup, and feed all your different Aux sends into a Matrix for output to the amps. But if you use your Aux Sends as subgroups like that, then you lose the ability to use them for more important things like stage monitors.
@garrisonaw So you can still use them as sub groups. Cool.
Still waiting on the other guy to explain how "many digital consoles only have DCA's and not Control Groups"...
Subgroups are buses (sub-mixes) in which audio signals are actually merged and then regulated by a single fader, so it not only provides a collective volume control for a selection of channels but also makes it possible to apply public processing to them - For example, applying a general EQ for all lavalier mics of same brand to calibrate their frequency response and to alleviate feedback problems, or applying a general compression for all mics recording sound from a drum set. However signal from a subgroup cannot be routed to auxes - It can only go to the main stereo bus or to matrices. This could cause a problem if aux-fed signals are used.
VCA's are batch-operation remote controls which turn down the volume of their member channels proportionally under command from a single fader. Signals from member channels of a VCA are still separated and never premixed, so all aux-fed things like FX's or monitors would work fine. However VCA doesn't allow the signals to go through the same process like what a subgroup does.
I don't quite understand the last part, or I should say I don't see a scenario when using a VCA to turn an input down 20db is a problem for aux levels, If you do foh and monitors from one console, you most likely send your inputs to auxes in pre fader and if you are doing only monitors for example why not just use digital trim ?
I think part of it would have to do with any post-fader sends that would be affected such as FX or subgroup processing.
@@christianmartinez1 Oh yeah I see but what was shown on the screen when he was saying that is confusing.
@@cocofocan what timestamp?
Scovill is not talking about Aux Pre problems for "Monitors from FOH" scenario, but for AuxPost sends feeding the parralell compression processing (ie. Parallel Drum Bus) that will be disrupted once you lower the VCA on the drumkit (AuxPost sends to DrumSquash compressor will be lower, under the threshold on the comp). Hope that all is clarified now 👋
@@thebuzge it is now, thanks !
7:33 dang
Now to go drop 30k on a new PA
i can not believe no one there could answer why they need a mic pre...
Everyone too nervous to answer.
Funny a episode of running sound and it's hard to hear the guy talking..pex
I’m more concerned with the participants who don’t know what the sole purpose of a preamp is….. that’s like “college audio 101” not a masterclass.
Lol I thought the same thing.. I am super new, so I appreciated it but yea, very basic.. Where do you get that basic information?? I don't have a college near by that offer's any of this stuff.. Idk where to start other than YT.. I am finding it difficult to find direct information tho.. Lots of sales stuff.
@@rhinoskin7550it doesn’t help that UA-cam is FULL of confidently-wrong misinformation. You can’t go wrong with Scovill tho! He’s one of there greatest.
When I was coming up in the early 2000s, the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook was a great manual for proper audio fundamentals, live and studio. But it might be somewhat dated now
I’d say most people know, they just need to be reminded… because they’re thinking too much about the tiny details and sometimes forget the main purpose of things.
@@rhinoskin7550my textbook for audio and live sound is the yamaha sound reinforcement handbook, 2nd edition. Try starting there. It’s a difficult subject to learn without the hands on practice of working with a sound reinforcement system but you can definitely learn the theory and practice via reading and vicariously through UA-cam. At some point, though, you’ll need to find a venue or school or something that can give you hands on practice
@rhinoskin7550 Bobby Osinski's books are Belmont U's curriculum.
Isn’t this the guy who used to travel around on behalf of avid, claiming you had to gain as much as possible to «preserve all the bits». Never lost respect for anyone that quickly in my life.
So what's your explanation to why he's wrong?
This is flawed teaching. Subgroups or sub-masters should not be used for the presented reasons. Also, too much PA should be dealt with using the matrix feature, so your matrices become control room volume.
Why not use subgroups to set the volume in the room? How do you do it? Any better way to do it? You know he sends the subgroups to a matrix for the PA?
And how do you feed your matrices?
@@Rythym4god Main stereo buss feeds all Matrixes.
this guy has no idea about audio. "optimized for Line level" lol. has no idea about bit depth haha
Even if you consider he won't be working at 32 bit fp?
I assure you Robert Scovill knows that he is talking about. He has forgotten more about audio than you will ever know. Not only does his artistic/mixing skills surpass most FOH engineers, I think you would be hard pressed to find a more "technically minded" person than Robert. Did you know that Robert is credited as the first person to use virtual sound checks and live multi-track workflows? (Something he started using back in the "analog days" while working with Tom Petty). You should really use Google to learn about the people you are criticizing before you post.....
@@BrianSimmonsNo seriously. Though he has had a succesful career. His understanding of the basics of audio, and especially digital audio is deeply flawed. Fortunately/unfortunately, there is enough headroom and leeway in modern gear to let him keep his job;-)
Ummm…. Who gonna tell him? This is also basics of audio. Regardless of bit depth… all mixers are designed to operate at line level……
@@Seanalbertt I thought they were designed to operate with digital audio. Could you look in the back of yours and tell me what inputs do you have? Also could you point me to the part where the mixer "operates" with line level?