Fixing TF2's Worst Weapons - Scout

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  • Опубліковано 30 жов 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 1,7 тис.

  • @babygirlvenere
    @babygirlvenere Рік тому +3569

    you should ABSOLUTELY continue this series

  • @Chicken-Chaser
    @Chicken-Chaser Рік тому +1115

    14:46 I actually like the idea of YOU dropping a small health pack when you die with the candy cane. Adds a lil chaos as your killer could pick it up or a teammate that was next to you.

    • @somethingguy912
      @somethingguy912 Рік тому +144

      technically, the Candy Cane in it's current state already does that. Although it only works if the user in question types kill or explode in console, basically only by suicide does it drop the health kit.

    • @Chicken-Chaser
      @Chicken-Chaser Рік тому +93

      @@somethingguy912 neat, I never knew that. A strictly kamikaze health pack.

    • @lambsauce5312
      @lambsauce5312 Рік тому +3

      That would be perfectly balanced tbh

    • @fink_rat
      @fink_rat Рік тому +33

      @@somethingguy912 i'm gonna do this to a teammate that's about to die. Would help them

    • @puskajussi37
      @puskajussi37 Рік тому +7

      Yes, this right now! Maybe even a medium pack, or 1-2 small ones. Since scout is a close up and flank kind of character, the packs are likely to fall in to enemy hands, making it effective but balanced downside.

  • @aereonexapprentice7205
    @aereonexapprentice7205 Рік тому +435

    5:30 That mini-crit kill aspect is really cool for crit-a-cola synergy, can't believe i'm hyped for something that will never exisst

    • @RioManegos
      @RioManegos Рік тому +6

      Community rebalance servers exist. Maybe Blue will have one one day!

    • @lennybjorowitz4256
      @lennybjorowitz4256 Рік тому +2

      @@RioManegos fish has a server and everything is semi balanced.
      here is link
      docs.google.com/document/d/1Y1SK46KSy6Bp8Mw7iHRWoTbU24sLCFJ1tp8YqJk1X64/edit

  • @gamingmoth4542
    @gamingmoth4542 Рік тому +846

    I actually like the idea of Scout being having an option to heal himself slowly over time if he had a specific item. Would slightly lower the number of times scouts with 124 HP steal health packs since they could heal themselves.

    • @MinnowTF
      @MinnowTF Рік тому +105

      As a Scout with 124 hp, I don’t care and I take the health kit anyway

    • @ChaoticKey29912
      @ChaoticKey29912 Рік тому +22

      @@MinnowTF 💪💪

    • @TheCosmicUprise
      @TheCosmicUprise Рік тому +16

      ​@@MinnowTFno one else is gonna heal us we gotta make do somehow

    • @The24thWight
      @The24thWight Рік тому

      ​@TheCosmicUprise
      Shit medics lead to shithead scouts.
      Gotta say, tho. If you DO heal a scout, they're usually VERY grateful.

    • @OhCrapI_He
      @OhCrapI_He 9 місяців тому +9

      ​@@MinnowTF[Your medic dies from afterburn after seeing this]

  • @SovereignM.N
    @SovereignM.N Рік тому +541

    8:37 - Scout player takes a medium health pack when there's a medic and a dispenser nearby

    • @FIVEBASKET
      @FIVEBASKET Рік тому +139

      Least selfish scout player

    • @WhoTookIt
      @WhoTookIt Рік тому +50

      Avarege scout main

    • @Ryann9
      @Ryann9 Рік тому +83

      Most generous scout

    • @lordshakingcrying7778
      @lordshakingcrying7778 Рік тому +25

      To be fair the dispenser is built right next to the health pack

    • @josephbilderback4549
      @josephbilderback4549 Рік тому +29

      But if he called for medic, the medic would tell him to just die

  • @Korbiit
    @Korbiit Рік тому +485

    I love the idea of the third hit of the bat being a crit. It plays into the idea of actual baseball, where the scout gets 2 strikes but hits a home run on his third swing.

    • @amalkrishnanajay5907
      @amalkrishnanajay5907 Рік тому +29

      I almost always use the mackarel. I was surprised when he wanted to buff it. Its pretty solid and the crit rate is pretty good.

    • @sud1881
      @sud1881 Рік тому +14

      @@amalkrishnanajay5907 but isn’t the idea that random cries get removed?

    • @ACrusaderCBCforever
      @ACrusaderCBCforever Рік тому +5

      @@sud1881 that's only on option 2(witch i think is the better one because is doesn't nerf the gunslinger) and in that option melees still crit

    • @LordVader1094
      @LordVader1094 Рік тому +1

      @@sud1881 God I hope not

    • @BenDover-zp7bu
      @BenDover-zp7bu Рік тому +12

      ​@@ACrusaderCBCforeverNerf the gunslinger? Be 100% honest, no one uses it for the three hit crit and removing it wouldnt make everyone say it sucks now i wont ude it anymore

  • @thisbox
    @thisbox Рік тому +377

    4:50 Awhile back on Fish's Bad Weapon Rehab server, the Backscatter for awhile had a increased accuracy buff, but it turns out giving Scout a stronger hitting Shortstop was a bit too much, so the increased accuracy was changed to just being stock.

    • @Bnvnu
      @Bnvnu Рік тому +65

      Exactly, it just eats away at the role the shortstop already fits, the back scatter, is a backstabbing scatter gun, it just does the job poorly because after the first shot, people will know where you are and you won't get anymore value out of it against said target

    • @drivanradosivic1357
      @drivanradosivic1357 Рік тому +10

      what if the Backscatter had a Airstrike like ammo increase on kill, for 8 shots total?

    • @marcelosolaralister5967
      @marcelosolaralister5967 Рік тому +24

      @@drivanradosivic1357 i mean, it would make sebse with its 2 drum magazines

    • @Bnvnu
      @Bnvnu Рік тому +28

      @@drivanradosivic1357 it would still not fix the current major problem of the gun, which is the efficacity of the upside after the first shot, to remedy this, you could replace the mini-crits on back-hits with "applies marked for death (5s)" so that you still get value post-flank on tankier targets.

    • @drivanradosivic1357
      @drivanradosivic1357 Рік тому +2

      @@Bnvnu or make the Fan o War have a alt fire that throws a kunai that does 25 damage and marks for death so it is a good combo and utility melee.
      as for the Backscatter, maybe the more you kill you get ammo to a max of 4 but also plus 10% accuracy so that means 4 kills is plus 40% accuracy, however the accuracy penalty comes first, meaning -20% +40% is actually plus 20% more accuracy. Still fixes the problem and makes the Backscatter more reliable yes?

  • @Googolplexed
    @Googolplexed Рік тому +94

    Every single weapon proposal you talked about here was seriously well thought out, and at least one of the two revisions were super appealing to me personally. Please continue this series and maybe even start up a small server to try out some of these changes

  • @Starpotion
    @Starpotion Рік тому +923

    Healing reduction seems like a mechanic that should have been introduced by now. In a game with so many sources of healing, it's surprising there isn't anything to really counter it.

    • @magical86
      @magical86 Рік тому +108

      technically, DoT statuses like bleed and flame damage are a soft sort of healing reduction, since they perpetually reset crit heals? would LOVE for a more concrete system tho

    • @corrinvondrachen1097
      @corrinvondrachen1097 Рік тому +75

      It does exist, Pyro does it...and I hate it.

    • @outstandinglyaverage409
      @outstandinglyaverage409 Рік тому +6

      @Bloo Berri yeah that’s what I was going to say

    • @greenoftreeblackofblue6625
      @greenoftreeblackofblue6625 Рік тому +8

      Pyro does it.

    • @fojisan2398
      @fojisan2398 Рік тому +4

      Ngl, Overwatch got healing reduction and debuffs right for the most part

  • @belkaberserk
    @belkaberserk Рік тому +248

    I have an idea to make the sun-on-a-stick more chaotic:
    Firstly make it so that you do crits not only to enemies that are on fire but to ALL enemies when YOU are on fire, and when you are on fire specifically, you would get a 50% damage bonus with it making this weapon absolutely nuts (also increase the fire damage resistance from 25% to 50%, only while you hold the weapon out of course, and a 50% deploy penalty).
    Edit: The stats I suggested do not replace the current stats (except for the fire damage resistance), they are meant to just add to the current stats meaning that: 25% damage penalty stays and while you are not on fire the weapon works as it does now.

    • @Snowie6606
      @Snowie6606 Рік тому +10

      I love it

    • @XSniper74184
      @XSniper74184 Рік тому +47

      Scout gets hit with a flare and is like, "I am fire, I am death!"

    • @qualitygorden9963
      @qualitygorden9963 Рік тому +22

      "See that heavy over there? He's dead already BY ME"

    • @Majima_Nowhere
      @Majima_Nowhere Рік тому +1

      "On miss: set yourself on fire. Idiot...?"

    • @EdgieAlias
      @EdgieAlias Рік тому +31

      That would make Scout v Pyro fights WAY MORE BEARABLE.

  • @deathbot2k572
    @deathbot2k572 Рік тому +459

    sentry knockback is actually a utility to bonk scouts for launching yourself farther behind the enemy

    • @mksislive2242
      @mksislive2242 Рік тому +63

      it's funny seeing a scout being launched across the map with a sentry

    • @TJ-hg6op
      @TJ-hg6op Рік тому +45

      Rarely, usually it leads to my death.

    • @highwaymanF2
      @highwaymanF2 Рік тому +35

      Gets them killed a lot though. The immense sentry damage slows them to a crawl so any enemy who saw the scout fling themselves will give chase and finish the job

    • @oldveryveryoldmanfromthe1900s
      @oldveryveryoldmanfromthe1900s Рік тому +7

      What a youtube idea!

    • @patrykjaskowski4226
      @patrykjaskowski4226 Рік тому +1

      @@oldveryveryoldmanfromthe1900s indeed

  • @ernestsgulbis7329
    @ernestsgulbis7329 Рік тому +43

    3:40 Great blue buffs the clip size by 1% without mentioning it.

  • @obamagaming2629
    @obamagaming2629 Рік тому +466

    Rebalancing weapons in tf2 has always been a strange case to me

    • @fortnitesexman
      @fortnitesexman Рік тому +3

      why?

    • @davidhong1934
      @davidhong1934 Рік тому +87

      @@fortnitesexman
      Because comments on the internet have always been a strange case to me

    • @fortnitesexman
      @fortnitesexman Рік тому +1

      @@davidhong1934 i didn't ask you, and that wouldn't have answered the question anyways cause it just raises the exact same one "why?"

    • @curlytraveler3558
      @curlytraveler3558 Рік тому

      @@fortnitesexman People like you have always been a strange case to me

    • @galaxii0
      @galaxii0 Рік тому +78

      @@fortnitesexman bro doesnt get the in joke laugh at this user

  • @enlongjones2394
    @enlongjones2394 Рік тому +19

    Notably, the Sandman marking for death is already something it can do with an MVM upgrade. And it works really well there as a result.
    You could then swap that upgrade for “ball slows on hit” in MVM itself.

    • @waitingfortheequinnox
      @waitingfortheequinnox 9 місяців тому +5

      and save an MvM Scout about 250 credits since there is zero chance slowing a single target is worth 500

    • @mariustan9275
      @mariustan9275 19 годин тому

      @@waitingfortheequinnox Make it cost 200 credits. After all mad milk slow costs the same.

  • @princetbug
    @princetbug Рік тому +146

    the Sun on a Stick rework genuinely sounds quite fun. If we get any of these in-game, this would be the most interesting to me

    • @WIMouse
      @WIMouse Рік тому

      Mvm max melee swing speed with sun on a stick

    • @WIMouse
      @WIMouse Рік тому

      With 2 scouts doing exactly that

    • @usernametaken017
      @usernametaken017 4 місяці тому

      You would need to hit someone three time to actually crit them. At this point just use your gun lmao

  • @DocDog
    @DocDog Рік тому +33

    2:10 Baby Face's Blaster
    4:13 Backscatter
    5:49 Shortstop
    8:43 Winger
    10:25 Bat
    12:03 Sandman
    13:39 Candy Cane
    15:38 Fan O'War
    17:24 Sun-On-A-Stick
    20:05 Bonk! Atomic Punch
    20:48 Wrap Assasin
    21:00 Crit-A-Cola

    • @camdenzeigler6954
      @camdenzeigler6954 Рік тому

      Thank you

    • @kirbyboi6213
      @kirbyboi6213 10 місяців тому

      Don't understand why he had to try and fix the shortstop, shortstop pretty good

    • @Wosato
      @Wosato 9 місяців тому

      ​@@kirbyboi6213 underused compared to the scattergun, force a nature and soda popper

  • @bigdumpygaming
    @bigdumpygaming Рік тому +228

    I would love to see these changes implemented on a test-server. They all sound so fun to play with.

    • @commentsonly2142
      @commentsonly2142 Рік тому +4

      yes

    • @Brown-Dude47
      @Brown-Dude47 Рік тому +2

      Yes

    • @Brother_Piner
      @Brother_Piner Рік тому +18

      That’d be idea, I’d just hope the series gets popular enough to warrant one, especially since so few people seem to actually care to go in them.

  • @woomyrogue
    @woomyrogue Рік тому +3

    The stock bat and the Sun on a Stick have a “three strikes and you’re out” motif and I love that that (possibly unintentional) theming!

  • @mrstudent9125
    @mrstudent9125 Рік тому +97

    Boost decaying after not dealing damage is an interesting concept. It could replace losing damage on hit.

  • @GigasGMX
    @GigasGMX Рік тому +14

    Love your “tweak” proposal for the backscatter. Turning a gimmick weapon into a weapon with TWO gimmicks dramatically improves the number of situations where it’s usable.

  • @austinmajeski9427
    @austinmajeski9427 Рік тому +133

    For the candy-cane, you should really be able to eat it like the sandwich - or even instantly. Having an emergency health pack on the lowest health class could be great for quick attacks and short _retreats._
    (Maybe even have it regenerate too.)

    • @dovahkat9635
      @dovahkat9635 Рік тому +30

      Or maybe, have consuming it be single use, but have it be like the caber where you're left with a candy shank basically. Maybe give it some kind of offensive bonus in its shank state.

    • @bardofvoid174
      @bardofvoid174 Рік тому +10

      I've had this idea too in general, but it would be interesting on a melee! I've always thought scout having some sort of mini-sandwhich that heals like, half-health or anything would be super interesting to have, and *then* when dropped, it drops a small health pack! Though that might need a tertiary fire... I suppose the downside is no melee attack maybe lmao

    • @cesarcastillo7129
      @cesarcastillo7129 Рік тому

      Sniper and Spy are supposed to countrr healing

    • @vaar8584
      @vaar8584 Рік тому +1

      @@bardofvoid174 it could use the same button as medic shield in mvm?

    • @bardofvoid174
      @bardofvoid174 Рік тому

      @@vaar8584 Potentially! At least, if it's not too niche of a button.

  • @chemicalfeels
    @chemicalfeels Рік тому +29

    Would also be a nice buff for Fan-of-War to inflict a bit of knockback, allowing you to be somewhat safe when you hit an enemy but also at risk at being hit by a shotgun at lower health.

    • @lecommentar9851
      @lecommentar9851 11 місяців тому +4

      Nah, the risk is the fact you have to approach more. And also the knockback would be abused especially if it worked on ubers

  • @purplehaze2358
    @purplehaze2358 Рік тому +42

    I earnestly think the only thing you'd need to do to balance the shortstop is revert it back to a healing utility.

    • @Agustinp-sd5ii
      @Agustinp-sd5ii Рік тому

      Seriously, or give it back it's intended role of slowing down enemies. If Heavy can, why not let Scout too?

  • @MrKrazyoshi
    @MrKrazyoshi Рік тому +23

    I would love to see this become a series! Also, while I don't ever play Scout myself, I want to say that I really like both of your ideas for the Sun on a Stick.

  • @LordOfTheDeepDawn
    @LordOfTheDeepDawn Рік тому +46

    I always thought about Candy Cane have an alt fire ability that allows you to "consume" it which is equal to picking up a medium hp pack, so it could work as a personal health pack :D

    • @davidhong1934
      @davidhong1934 Рік тому +28

      As proof of concept, we'll need an SFM of Scout aggressively eating his candy cane and NOT taking a medium health pack while he's at 124HP

    • @ironprince72
      @ironprince72 Рік тому +6

      its needs a long eating animation with a longer recharge so that scout doesnt become old heavy

    • @jocaleb0236
      @jocaleb0236 Рік тому +1

      @@ironprince72make it take 2s to eat, takes 30s to recharge and can’t be replenished
      It’s on scout, if it takes longer for him to eat it than it does to run to a health pack it’s not going to be useful! I guess if he’s caught behind enemy lines but still

    • @sandwichgaming1923
      @sandwichgaming1923 Рік тому

      how he would melee then, he would punch everyone to death?
      punch stats: 15 dmg, but the double firing speed, trust me, it would be balanced

    • @VagueCastle649
      @VagueCastle649 Рік тому +1

      @@sandwichgaming1923 It could be like the spy-cicle.

  • @grandwizardautismo
    @grandwizardautismo Рік тому +40

    Sandman marks enemies for death, make the cleaver do critical damage when a enemy is taking mini crits. The most fun combo in the game has returned.

    • @Kruzeda
      @Kruzeda Рік тому +5

      God I miss the guillotine sandman combo, I was running that loadout with stock scattergun 95% of the time while playinf scout

    • @lordpumpkinhead265
      @lordpumpkinhead265 Рік тому +5

      @@Kruzeda So was every other Scout main at the time.

  • @santiklingo
    @santiklingo Рік тому +19

    I have had an idea for a BFB buff for a while that I would like to share :)
    Movement speed won't be any different from how it is now.
    At 0 boost, it fires a single slug shot that gives guaranteed crits on a headshot, landing this shot will give 100% boost.
    As boost increases, the weapon becomes more inaccurate, this is to encourage you to use your new found speed to close the distance.
    Taking damage decreases boost less, and double jumping causes boost to slowly drain over a set time. This was to not allow Scouts to just get close and then immediately double jump to empty boost and get that slug crit, as now boost will drain forcing you to wait a few seconds.

  • @grfrjiglstan
    @grfrjiglstan Рік тому +12

    This seems like the beginning of a beautiful series. I like the idea of having two different suggestions for each weapon - it's like a mini-round of Good Cop, Bad Cop with every weapon!

  • @StickMaster500
    @StickMaster500 Рік тому +6

    How to make the fast Boston Man even more of a nuisance than he already is.
    Also as some quick ideas that I’ve had for a while, it would be interesting if the Baby Face’s Blaster wouldn’t lose any of its boost but having the downside of having lower jump height or maybe even remove the ability to double jump and for the Sun-on-a-Stick able to launch a fireball at someone, setting them on fire so it can use its crits on burning players stat more efficiently.

    • @Bnvnu
      @Bnvnu Рік тому +1

      First idea is interesting, but in some way double-jumping is already partially blocked by the current BFB. As for the fireball idea, let me guess, FoaS? I personally don't like the idea of a self synergyzing weapon, as if it's weak, it will stay weak and unused, if it's strong, it takes over everything and there's no place left for more diverse loadout.

  • @Jornker
    @Jornker Рік тому +10

    Sun on a stick is a youtube weapon

  • @ardyh8789
    @ardyh8789 Рік тому +38

    The second sandman change is a great idea, not only because it can bring the weapon back to a usable state, but also because it's the ranged but different variant of the fan of war, similarly to the Boston basher and wrap assassin

    • @Dave01Rhodes
      @Dave01Rhodes Рік тому +8

      It would also make it combo with the Cleaver again… sorta. It would at least be a devastating one-two punch

    • @Adrielinz
      @Adrielinz 6 місяців тому +2

      ​@@Dave01RhodesMake the clever crit where it would normally mini crit (like the bushwacka) and theres our favorite combo back again

  • @anon9469
    @anon9469 Рік тому +12

    I really, really agree with giving the Winger the "no fall damage" effect. It makes more sense on it than it ever did on the Pocket Pistol.

    • @bluegem8582
      @bluegem8582 3 дні тому

      Really only reason it made sense in it was because it was part of set where it fixed BFB's weakness of no double jump, on its own it was barely useful (the effect)

  • @eclecticspaghetti
    @eclecticspaghetti Рік тому +37

    These ideas are really, really good. The second stock melee rework in particular is probably the best solution to the random crits problem I’ve ever seen.
    *Please* continue this series, as long as you don’t imply the Dragon’s Fury is a bad weapon by reworking it >:(

    • @LoraLoibu
      @LoraLoibu Рік тому +4

      Dragon's fury is good, it's comparable DPS to the phlog (if you can aim through the constant flashbangs), but you're actually _able_ to airblast

    • @eclecticspaghetti
      @eclecticspaghetti Рік тому +1

      @@LoraLoibu yep! I firmly believe that with enough practice (and, granted, it takes a *lot* of practice,) the Dragon's Fury is Pyro's best flamethrower by a mile.

    • @thepandrbr
      @thepandrbr Рік тому +8

      @@LoraLoibu Rework idea: reduce the amount of particles generated. No joke, each shot creates like, 1000 particles or so. Also make the particles come out from somewhere else so you dont get flashbanged

    • @pennydime4562
      @pennydime4562 Рік тому

      @@eclecticspaghetti i am a massive fan of the degreaser but even I have to admit the dragon's fury especially on attack is by far an away pyros best weapon

    • @NateThePlayer
      @NateThePlayer Рік тому

      Dragon fury doesn't need nerf tho, its buggy and need some huge buff (like airblast faster, increased ammo & hitbox increase)

  • @snowboi2813
    @snowboi2813 Рік тому +8

    Please do this as a full series, i can't wait to see your ideas for other classes. I'm actually wishing valve would see this video and consider your ideas

  • @penguinpal1793
    @penguinpal1793 Рік тому +12

    please continue this series, I think your take on rebalances is unique and different (as most are).

  • @LuigiFan64
    @LuigiFan64 Рік тому +6

    Making baseballs mark for death like the MvM upgrade is a pretty interesting idea. I would like to see that as a concept in a custom server.
    Never forget the old stun mechanic. I loved The Sandman.

  • @JELOKID1
    @JELOKID1 Рік тому +4

    5:20 Crit a cola combo is gonna to be flippin crazy

  • @Wanderlust2430
    @Wanderlust2430 Рік тому +1

    You put forward ideas I’ve been putting forth for a decade now for some of these weapons. It’s good to see someone else sees the flaws and how easily fixed some of them are. Worth the watch!

  • @NikoFromOneShot
    @NikoFromOneShot Рік тому +21

    Shortstop's shove should be able to reflect projectiles if you do it with perfect timing.
    It would be so dumb, but so cool to do.

    • @Underworlder5
      @Underworlder5 Рік тому +10

      now i got the mental image of scout slapping rockets back to sender

    • @wr3nche5
      @wr3nche5 3 місяці тому +3

      @@Underworlder5 "Return to freakin' sender!"
      -the scout

  • @2Scarhand
    @2Scarhand Рік тому +1

    Awesome start to a new series and I love the two options approach to the proposed reworks.
    I actually had an interesting idea for the Back Scatter with simple number changes:
    +Mini-crits from behind
    +20% more pellets
    -10% damage penalty
    -33% smaller clip size
    -20% slower firing speed
    -No random crits
    This gives the BS the same base damage as the Force-A-Nature, which is naturally weaker at range than Scout's other primaries. This also gives it the coveted upside of being able to 1-shot light classes and Medics using the mini-crits, which is an insane improvement over other weapons. BUT! It only works while flanking. You deal fine damage per shot and shooting from cover generally negates firing speed penalties, but other weapons are way better for mid-range head-on fights. This basically makes you an assassin like Spy. If you sneak by you can destroy most classes in a single shot or any class (w/out overheal) in 2, but the weapon becomes increasingly less useful the less strategically you play.

  • @bobertastic6541
    @bobertastic6541 Рік тому +6

    5:00 a scattergun that trades two shells for more mid range dmg? you mean... the shortstop?

  • @romeojeirfimczukalmeida9235
    @romeojeirfimczukalmeida9235 Рік тому +1

    You should keep on doing this videos, they're super interesting and they open doors to many debates and opinions which makes them a lot better to enjoy!

  • @chillie4396
    @chillie4396 Рік тому +8

    14:20 15 SECOND max health penalty?

  • @RookMeAmadeus
    @RookMeAmadeus Рік тому +1

    Absolutely keep going with this series. You've got some great ideas here. Some particular thoughts of mine:
    Baby Face's Blaster: That rework idea sounds AMAZING. We NEED something like this. I'm a garbage scout and even I like the idea of having a super high aggression playstyle.
    Back Scatter: The accuracy boost is probably the way to go. Extra pellets is a great idea, but there's a very narrow range before it crosses the point where a meatshot could kill a light class even from the front, and back shots can kill medics.
    Sandman: I agree with the rework idea. It's one that several youtubers have mentioned, but I wouldn't knock anyone for that right now. Mark for death on the ball is a great idea.
    Sun on a Stick: I'm good with either rework idea, but I just have to suggest one meme idea in turn, even as a pyro main: 100% critical hits on the SoaS if the SCOUT is on fire.

  • @ArchChrono
    @ArchChrono Рік тому +11

    give scout the phlog

    • @gabe_gaming9107
      @gabe_gaming9107 Рік тому +4

      Clearly you've never used the fan of war

    • @Pyro_with_adhd
      @Pyro_with_adhd Рік тому +1

      And if all shotgun damage got doubled TF2 would be a WW2 simulator

  • @luislora8953
    @luislora8953 Рік тому +2

    A cool idea for the shortstop would be if instead of a shove it allowed you to punch someone in the face for decent damage and a short lived stun.

  • @danielsurvivor1372
    @danielsurvivor1372 Рік тому +5

    9:14 EXACTLY.
    I'm so tired of Winger simps, there's just not good reason to pick it over atomiser

    • @Mondonkon
      @Mondonkon 2 місяці тому

      You can still shoot enemies in combat with the winger, making it much more useful in combat than the atomizer, which has a slower deployment speed and has pitiful damage. The winger is not the scout's weakest pistal. If anything, it's the pretty boys' pocket pistol since it gives a pitiful 3 health per hit. In the best case scenario, you get 27 health with a full mag, and that's assuming you hit every shot before reloading.

  • @Jessie_Helms
    @Jessie_Helms Рік тому +1

    1) I like the series
    2) keeping random crits only on melee weapons is the biggest middle finger possible to Spy players and is a MASSIVE buff to snipers.

  • @justerw
    @justerw Рік тому +4

    3:05 I can't believe you buffed the clip size on the Baby Face Blaster. Instead of -34% clip size it's -33% clip size, making it extremely annoying to play against. This change will never see the light of day because you have made the weapon too powerful. Good thing Valve doesn't update the game anymore, because I CAN'T IMAGINE the frustration of Scout-haters that now have to deal with -33% clip size on the Baby Face Blaster. Scout mains would be FURIOUS because now their $200 Professional Killstreak Australium Scattergun would be INFERIOR to the Baby Face Blaster's buffed clip size.

    • @NinjaKatzKool
      @NinjaKatzKool 2 місяці тому

      For real, that buff was too much

  • @danikvelocity3120
    @danikvelocity3120 Рік тому +1

    My idea for a Back Scatter rework based of this video and FishStickOnAStick's Bad Weapon Academy:
    + Grants mini-crits for 4 seconds from back hits.
    + Mini-crits become crits when used with the Crit-a-Cola
    - -34% clip size
    - -20% damage
    - No random critical hits
    Alt-fire to get shortstop shove, shove works like your shortstop rework.
    On the subject of reworks, here's an idea I came up with for how to make Medic's Syringe guns actually worth using over the Crossbow.
    Universal:
    Passive reloading
    Stock:
    Hitting allies will heal them by 5 hp
    1% Uber upon dealing damage
    Blutsauger:
    + Heals 3 hp upon dealing damage
    + Hitting allies will heal them by 8 hp
    - -2 health regenerated per second on wearer
    - No Uber upon dealing damage
    Overdose:
    + 3% Uber upon dealing damage instead of 1%
    - Cannot heal allies
    While active, movement speed increases based
    on ÜberCharge percentage to a maximum of +20%
    Feel free to tell me if the exact stats on any of these need changing for balance sake.

  • @MildTomfoolery123
    @MildTomfoolery123 Місяць тому +6

    0/10 not enough bleed

  • @atomicgummygod9232
    @atomicgummygod9232 Рік тому +1

    I would like to politely request the Cleaver get a “crits whenever it would mini crit”, or “mini-crit/crit on debuffed players”, to synergize with your reworked sandman, fan, and Sun on a Stick. I want the cleaver combo back.

  • @silloishere
    @silloishere Рік тому +7

    Weapon balance in tf2 has always seemed like a strange case to me, ...

    • @Khronik_
      @Khronik_ Рік тому

      Tf2 weapon balancing feels like throwing stuff at a wall and seeing what sticks.

  • @LightCrib2
    @LightCrib2 Рік тому +1

    The sun on a stick applying gas would make for a fun damage over time loadout with the cleaver

  • @genghisdingus
    @genghisdingus Рік тому +5

    Your candy cane idea of losing max health accidentally nerfs the upside because health kits give health based on your max health.

  • @giserson2
    @giserson2 Рік тому +1

    A simple fix for the sun on a stick concept being a bit too powerful is to just include a slight general damage decrease. With a 25% damage penalty it would do exactly 104 damage in three hits (26/2, 26/2, 26x3), basically the same as stock without crits, as well as crits for every subsequent hit. Compared to stock the damage will be similar to if you got a random crit on one out of five hits (with crit rate varying between 1/6 to 1/3 I think that's very fair) but you also get afterburn and it wouldn't be luck dependant and require you to really commit to melee.

  • @samdaman2939
    @samdaman2939 Рік тому +3

    In my opinion, the bat should have a stat where it crits targets under 35% health. This can do multiple things. It can save you from having to hit the enemy more. AND, most interestingly, it instantly fills the baby faces blaster boost meter. These stats were inspired by the game Typical Colors 2. What do you think?

  • @KankreesCanvas
    @KankreesCanvas Рік тому

    Your idea for the SOAS gas debuff actually sounds like so much fun I wish I could actually just play with it right this instant

  • @ratking5400
    @ratking5400 Рік тому +4

    15 second penalty? 14:06

  • @SkyTreeStudio
    @SkyTreeStudio Рік тому +1

    For the Baby Faces Blaster I honestly don't know why we couldn't just take away the loose speed on hit entirely.
    The weapon isn't overpowered as a faster scout is great, but splash damage, pyros, heavy and sentries can still kill them quickly. Or shit, take away like 10-15 health but remove the on hit loss and make scout more of a glass cannon

  • @Sealysleepy
    @Sealysleepy Рік тому +4

    weapon balancing has always seemed like a strange case to me

    • @CAMSLAYER13
      @CAMSLAYER13 Рік тому

      How so?

    • @Sealysleepy
      @Sealysleepy Рік тому +1

      @@CAMSLAYER13 on one hand if you disliked how a weapon worked but love how it was reworked it is nice to have another option to choose from, but on the other hand not every balance change is necessarily better than the weapon it's replacing, so sometimes there's no point in even using them

    • @CAMSLAYER13
      @CAMSLAYER13 Рік тому +1

      @@Sealysleepy it's true that your change might not be enough to meaningfully effect anything but you are aiming at an ideal where every weapon is considered "good" and you can only really know once you let the players use the thing. Considering how often they rebalance I think its better they undershoot than over shoot

  • @janiposio2016
    @janiposio2016 Рік тому +1

    imagine a crits from behind backscatter. the full stats to make it good pros:+33% more accurate crits from behind cons:-33% damage()-75%less clip size

  • @Stabbyson
    @Stabbyson Рік тому +7

    16:32 I have nothing to say about your opinion, however when you put the emphasis on the word "But" the way you did and opted to NOT have a meme or image of a butt should be a crime

  • @aquamarinerose5405
    @aquamarinerose5405 Рік тому +1

    It's also more generally funny how many scout weapons are "They used to be annoying to play against so they got nerfed into the ground"

  • @HaydenX
    @HaydenX Рік тому +1

    My idea for the Shortstop's Shove was to replace it with a "Tag!" effect which would basically be free access to the Fan O'War effect in that it would mark tagged enemies for death, but not for the 15 seconds of the Fan O'War, but just 5 seconds instead. It would also have its hitbox enlarged (by some amount, not sure how much) and its animation time would be reduced.

  • @Demolander
    @Demolander Рік тому +1

    Bro, that scout that hit his head and got spun when he killbinded with the popper

  • @HellishSpoon
    @HellishSpoon 7 місяців тому +1

    Back scatter rework 2 basically turns it into a big earner (but even better cause it's on scout)

  • @thegreatautismo224
    @thegreatautismo224 Рік тому +1

    Every time there's Marble Blast music in the background of one of your videos I have a mini heart attack

  • @delilah1377
    @delilah1377 Рік тому +1

    14:15 NO! NOT A 15 SECOND MAX HEALTH PENALTY! ANYTHING BUT THAT!

  • @FlashOfAsh
    @FlashOfAsh Рік тому +1

    that stock melee weapons all do random crits while all other random crits are removed idea is GENIUS! I love the idea and it plays into the fact they are more, meh and unusable than other weapons

  • @BlackFlameMN
    @BlackFlameMN Рік тому

    i still like the idea of the sun on a stick with the fireball that youve brought up even in a previous video. i think that scout doesnt have enough ball type projectiles to hit, having a third would be pretty fantastic and something as cool as a fireball would add something unique to the lineup. plus the fire get more immediate setup for the hit than the gas, with the added bonus of ranged utility given by balls. love the thought experiments going here, keep it up!

  • @jraff2735
    @jraff2735 Рік тому +1

    A few ideas I've had for pyro
    Backburner: rework back hitboxes and rework it to a shorter range obliterator, where the fire particles are 20% slower but you do 15% more damage.
    Flare gun: +25% damage, nuff said (crit's would now be 120 damage rather than 90, to make dealing with heavier classes like soldier and heavy a lot easier without the panic attack)
    Degreaser: make the switch speed universal and buff it's holster speed to 60% while nerfing the damage by 15%, to emphasize the utility while deemphasizing it's damage.
    Gas passer: make the effect last 20 seconds, make it charge up like normal (25 seconds >:D) and make the afterburn effect thrice (3x) as strong (24 dps)

  • @CarsonTheCookdude
    @CarsonTheCookdude Рік тому +1

    My idea for the Candy Cane is to let dropped health packs from enemies give scout overheal, kind of like how he can collect money in MVM, just with an overheal cap at 185.

  • @winglessdraco4865
    @winglessdraco4865 Рік тому

    Okay first off, please keep doing this series it's amazing. And second, Yeah your Sun on a Stick idea is so simple and elegant that It should be the way the weapon works.

  • @johnjekyllson28
    @johnjekyllson28 6 місяців тому

    I love the second idea for the Fan-o-War. Most of your other weapons have at least one excellent suggestion as well.

  • @jacksonjguyguadagnino5792
    @jacksonjguyguadagnino5792 7 місяців тому

    I've never seen this little series of balance ideas, only just today having found it, but I'm glad I did! I really like a lot of your ideas and would only like to tweak some of them slightly to fit my personal preferences.
    Upon reaching the section with the stock Bat, I am so hype to hear your idea about random crits, because it's almost exactly the same thing I've been saying for years!
    I believe random crits should be disabled by default and turned into a stat to be applied to a select set of weapons, with my picks being the stock melee weapons (minus the Spy's Knife), as well as the Holiday Punch, exclusively. This would make the stock weapons which are currently outclassed (all of them except for Engineer's Wrench, Sniper's Kukri, and Spy's Knife) actually viable and competitive with other melee choices, as well as retaining the silly factor of the tickle gloves for Heavy.

  • @LightCrib2
    @LightCrib2 Рік тому +1

    I want the Back Scatter to have a model/sound change to a silenced shotgun, and the current model to be used for a new, high magazine scattergun

  • @sgas
    @sgas Рік тому +2

    The candy cane regen idea sounds really cool lol, almost like scout is eating it to regenerate health
    15:07 the candy cane could be made of very hard candy

  • @griffingates4926
    @griffingates4926 Рік тому

    really like all of these concepts especially the baby face's rework 2, great video, hope you keep the series going.

  • @anthonyoliver418
    @anthonyoliver418 Рік тому +1

    Tbh the fan of war is really good for both de buffs and making targets easier to kill, it can already put things in your favor if you use it supportively thanks to scout being able to run in and out. So in my opinion basically neutering an enemy would just be overkill. Especially if the scout is gonna pull a jumper demo and rush in to make the victim unable to hold and instead forced to either hold back or die easily since most forget how strong more damage can be, especially with how it can make fights much more weighted, with less healing you literally can force a vital tank class like Heavy who is holding to just let the push happen or die.
    As for my other opinions I think you should’ve made the candy cane focus more on support so that way it keeps both sides of it’s use case scenarios instead of being another self sustain option only. The Sandman should have it’s stun back, but maybe add more cost for scout so he can’t just stand a mile away to ruin a push, like maybe outlining him for a while or add longer switch speed. Finally I think that the short stop could benefit from being more dps at range over the scatter gun’s meaty close range shots, so maybe making it shoot faster with faster reload would be better especially with it’s already weaker nature.

  • @KAACHOW
    @KAACHOW Рік тому +1

    My balance change for the bat was 40% faster deploy speed, 20% faster firing speed

  • @edvingjervaldsaeter3659
    @edvingjervaldsaeter3659 Рік тому

    I have to say, I really liked that Sun-on-a-Stick rework with the gas-on-hit effect and now I really want to see what else you have in store!

  • @Lordike3
    @Lordike3 Рік тому

    Yes. Series please! You've obviously put a lot of thought into the idea and I'd like to see the suite of ideas fleshed out.

  • @philiphunt-bull5817
    @philiphunt-bull5817 Рік тому +1

    Stock Melees having random crits is genius, thank you for this.

  • @jimmyoakmeister
    @jimmyoakmeister Рік тому +1

    The Fan O'War is really useful in MVM I find. Most Scouts tend to have it equipped for taking out giants.
    Also, a fireball from the Sun On A Stick would be really cool, although I'd make it function more like a Demo pill than a Pyro flare (I know you didn't end up choosing that option for a total rework, but that's my input on it)

  • @noimnot2016
    @noimnot2016 Рік тому +1

    Great concept, looking forward to the other classes.

  • @pabroah6434
    @pabroah6434 Рік тому +1

    They should give scout a jar of holy water like in the castlevania series just to make the sun on a stick the bushwaka 2

  • @mariustan9275
    @mariustan9275 Рік тому +1

    I'd like to see you do medics weapons with this series. Literally nobody uses any primary except the crossbow and no-one uses any melee except the ubersaw. I'd like to see you make it so any weapon can be used by medic mains and not be yelled at for not being meta.

  • @Fatih_M177
    @Fatih_M177 Рік тому

    This video is incredible, i love the idea of this fixed stats
    maybe you should make videos talking about your possible ideas for entirely original weapons that can improve the game
    just for fun
    keep up the good content man

  • @Wolf-kx8li
    @Wolf-kx8li Рік тому

    i really like the balance ideas here, wish valve would up and rebalance some weapons just randomly like this and see what fun could happen from over 50 custom weapons being flipped around from being not so good to actually viable in many ways, the candy cane i love however i feel like the vulnerability should be higher since its health regen would mean most high damage shots might just end up leaving the scout at 5 or more hp even if they're walking in the open with it and they take a full rocket or pill, fire being most effective if they keep it out but oddly enough the regen countering it, personally i'd rather see stuff like this happen and then tweaks happening over the course of a month or four just cranking out some well deserved love for these underused and underperforming weapons, love these ideas thank you for starting this series :D

  • @donbass6909
    @donbass6909 Рік тому

    Your fan of war opinion was excellent dude. I think that would be the perfect combination of traits to fully flush out its intended use

  • @FrogInShorts
    @FrogInShorts Рік тому

    the sun on a stick is by far the best idea I ever heard for that weapon, I love seeing the gas effect getting some love too.

  • @CrystalC9
    @CrystalC9 Рік тому +1

    Sandman stun was always fine. It was hard to hit the ball from long range and honestly it's your own fault if you can't be assed to strafe a little as Sniper.

  • @vindiesel6695
    @vindiesel6695 Рік тому

    gonna need the whole series my guy. keep it up
    :)

  • @JerryScrewis
    @JerryScrewis Рік тому +1

    Finally someone who understands just how crazy the bonk can be under the right circumstances

  • @Introbulus
    @Introbulus 11 місяців тому

    Would love to see more videos like this.
    I like most of these ideas. I think the Fan of War could be improved by giving it a knockback effect similar to the shove improvement you suggested for the shortstop, making it a powerful tool for pushing valuable targets out of position.
    And then just make the shortstop a solid mid range option for the scout and forget about the goofy arm flailing "shove" move.

  • @Zaktot-ho8fe
    @Zaktot-ho8fe Рік тому

    The sun on a stick was a really clever idea! Love to see that playtested sometime. I'm not sure why you would want to buff the critacola though; It's already a bit overwhelming to fight against

  • @andrewweiker1482
    @andrewweiker1482 Рік тому +1

    For later on in the series you should give the pyros melee the following change: 10% faster switch speed. While this change overlaps with the axetinguisher slightly the only real area that a melee could help it is an even faster burst of damage than it's current w+m1.

  • @mspaintkills
    @mspaintkills Рік тому

    Great Blue is genuinely one of my favorite TF2bers, there’s so much attention to detail in these videos and the editing is so nice. Also the voiceovers are always clean concise and to the point. Don’t get me wrong I also love low effort content, i even make shitpost tf2 vids (not on this account I refuse to plug myself) but imo GreatBue is really one of the best TF2 UA-cam’s thx for the swag vid my good man. Plus props for making the custom fan o war icon!!

  • @alexcat6685
    @alexcat6685 10 місяців тому

    Sun on a Stick Idea I love due to being adaptivable addition of damage, making a weapon thats way too niche to work, to a pretty functional tool that just happens to also work with Pyro.