@@IKIGAIofficial have you ever played Pally? Because they certainly do not have unlimited heals and they give up A LOT of damage if they use their magic potency buff on healing.
@@mobius4247 Req doesn't even buff Clemency anymore. It does make it instant, but it's the same potency as normal. So in a way they're even more punished than they used to be.
I feel the engagement level of healer is really high at the start of a new encounter when nobody has any idea what they're doing, you're vomiting spotheals left and right and trying to get another hardraise in there because the samurai died for the fourth consecutive time. Then the requirement of taking care of the party is greatly lowered once the party is adjusted to the mechanics and begins to perform at a much more consistent level, so you just become a glarebot at the end of the day. Basically the better the party gets the less you have to do
Yes this exactly. Here's hoping to bad parties to shine as healer. Also sometimes I'm like, why can't I dps so much as im used to in this dungeon. O wait sprout party. Ok lemme get you guys through this.
4:19 "...simply begging for something to go wrong." This is literally me. The more people I see viewing cutscenes the more excited I get, especially in the harder alliance raids. I've grown to just love chaos. Collect those vulns dps, give me something to live for again. Teared up at the Noct AST bit. Finally someone is saying it. What was the reason?? The changes you stated at the end would be amazing!
Last time I got a tank that viewed cutscene he timed his clemency before excog triggers and stayed away from my now 10yalm sacred soil. And the one before that was a WAR. Guess why healers get insta ques instead of tanks now.
@@TH3_DR3W Except you always went Diurnal no matter who your other healer was (unless it was another AST, then one of you poor bastards had to go Noct). The only thing Nocturnal Sect was good for was cheese strats like uptime dogs in E10S.
Ironically, making lilies dps neutral actually made WHM bump up in playability significantly because it does the unthinkable and *checks notes* directly rewards the WHM for using its core class mechanic.
@@amp448 Consider WHM and SGE lucky their resource is not tied to damage. SCH's Energy Drain is a measly 100 potency, and yet, using your AF stacks to heal (When you have fairy abilities available and Recitation), feels like you're punished with DPS loss for using your core SCH system.
1:54 was so slick king, i noticed it all on my own, i didn't even need u to point it out to me. our resident mr. chair gets more witty with his editing every single day
Having mained SCH when I started the game in Stormblood, I fell in love with the job. A healer with 3 (4 if you count Shadowflare) DoTs was an archetype I enjoyed both in thematic and playstyle, sort of like a plague doctor. Logging on ShB patch day to see 1/3 of my hotbars grayed out to learn that the job (and every other healer) had been reduced to a one-button wonder almost killed my desire to play the game as a whole. I ended up shifting to DPS and carried on with a mountain of salt but I'll never forget what Yoshi-P took from me.
Should've been here around 3.55 pre-SB where they removed all of cross class skills like Aero, Blizzard II, etc. A lot of players were (and still are) complaining years before ShB.
As a healer main, the reason you brought up is exactly why I enjoy doing allience raid, every group is different, and sometimes everything will go south, and that's when I fell the most alive
Running Orbonne, 50-75% of the time it’s a shitshow. HOWEVER, it does feel great you being the Alliance back from the being or even prevent a wipe WITHOUT using an LB3. The phase change for Ultima. But it’s a reason I enjoy Orbonne over Towers. In Orbonne, 3 bosses have “heal check” mechanics (Mustadio’s Analysis, TG Cid’s Cleansing Strike, and Ultima’s phase change). Agrias instead has multiple AoEs that she regularly casts. Towers is pretty dull in comparison.
I remember during the ShB media tour, everyone brought up “hey, healers’ DPS kits have been fucking obliterated and seem really boring. Why’d you do that?” And the answer we were given was essentially “don’t worry, we’re gonna really increase the outgoing damage in all content. You’ll need all those extra heals.” Then all they did was make raidwides in leveling dungeons and normal raids hit 10% harder.
And that’s only for newer content, not the existing 80% of content that players still regularly do in roulettes. It also doesn’t account for average item levels increasing over time and solo combat still being way too simple.
The other answer, or rather players speculated (since getting answers for anything related to healers from Yoshi P has been nearly impossible) that the pruning of the kits was so that they could streamline healer kits and build the foundation for new interesting skills in the future. Come Endwalker each healer got a single target "mitigation" tool which none of them really needed and...another heal with an exceptionally long CD. Or in SCH's case Expedient which is alright and quickly got nerfed.
@@eolendes6432 Didn't they also kick out their healer in their dungeon testing team for being too good because he started to do normal raids and extreme trials? Which kind of tells us what demographic healers are designed for.
i still enjoy healing a lot, idk why but seeing hp bars get healed and throwing buffs around triggers the "yay im helping" part of the brain in ways no tanking or dpsing does.
@@penultimania4295 I disagree. If people are still capable of wiping WITH healers, it means that, normally, they're necessary. If your argument is that things can be run without them, then parties are not necessary either, because you can technically solo raids with warrior, etc. "Challenge runs" where people take the classes to its extremes are not the standard and therefore don't reflect the state of the game. Idk why you feel the need to bring others down, the reality of the game is that healers are needed :) Could they use a rework to make their DPS rotation better? Absolutely! But that doesn't make them not needed.
It's 2024. 7.0 removed dots because they're too much of a hassle to keep up. All heal buttons get condensed into one st and one aoe that heal, regen and shield at once. The latest healer job, a massive, giant hammer wielding scholar with really sick animations that, from promotional footage, seem to be dps focused, has no damaging abilities at all. The animations do look cool tho.
Dont forget, reworked dragoon no longer jumps at all, monk loses its last 2 positionals, and the only ability all 4 tanks have outside their 1-2-3 is rampart Hell, positionals are just removed from the game entirely
Well the whole system is a bit off ... while the upper 5% want all classes but the Whm to be fking ubercomplicated to make it less playable for the other 95% while flexing and memeing on them. Most bored out people just hate the Idea that a game like ff14 is a MMORPG with a social focus rather than having a bs complicated system so that having a 2 class comm would thrive even more. Most raiders I know do not enjoy raiding because of it being a challenge ... most raid for being a narcisstic bumhole and make it visible to everyone.
@@PiconPrimeKnight Who the fuck are these raiders you're talking about. I have never met someone like that and almost exclusively spend my time in this game raiding.
They actually changed the quest to exclude that you heal by rewinding time. Idr what they did now. But they don't mention time magic anymore just divinity.
@@AZodiacCancer The villain of the expansion uses it, and the dialogue afterwards talks about you learning time magic. Also Gravity is still around, which is time magic traditionally.
One idea, having some kind of combo in the dps rotation that, instead of being more damage, provides the healer with some other kind of buff. E.g. a single-spell cast speed increase for the next spell, or something that interacted with your healing in a minor way to make it more potent, to encourage you to dps to improve your healing. And if they're concerned about button bloat, then maybe compress some of the situational abilities down. Heck do we still NEED physick or benefic or cure I? Or multiple different OGCD skills with long cooldowns that do basically the same thing?
They have done this before and a bunch of dps player would play healer and never heal. Dps player not liking plying healer? Then FFXIV is doing healers the right way.
Make Res spells instant, but have them give the caster a 60s debuff that makes your rezzes take 7 seconds to cast. Bam. You may now safely remove Swiftcast from healers. Functionally everything is identical.
@@SableBez they do that literally right now, though, and they'll do that even when they inevitably make glare auto-cast dia every time, because healers being brainless means people without brains are going to play them
Since he mainly focused on Scholar, what about rolling the idea of making them a DoT class again in with the healing? Maybe make SCH dots pulse a very minor amount of healing when they tick, and Fester could remove the DoT(s) for a decent aoe heal based on remaining time? That way you're encouraging DoT upkeep while still making it part of the healing role, and they don't need to outdamage other healer types to make the DoTs worth using?
As a SCH/SGE main, I find normal content to be extremely boring, but in high-end content, I find that babysitting the party IS the extra complexity. I might only use one or two heals in normal content, but in high end, I'll cycle through most of my heals, and I'll usually make at least rough timelines to ensure appropriate heals are up at appropriate times. But when the party takes avoidable damage or doesn't mitigate (which is a LOT of pf parties), I not only need to immediately notice, but I need to make fast decisions on how many extra heals we need, what I can do while saving what heals I know will be required for future mechanics, AND also keeping up my dot and dps. With that said, I'd really like at least one of my SCH dots back, I miss them D:
I feel the exact opposite. People in normal content might not be good with mechanics and their own class so a lot of mistakes can happen. Whenever I'm running high-end content though people know the mechanics, they've learned their own class long ago, high-end is just a dance that if someone fucks up everyone is punished or straight up wiped. The only exception seems to be TEA, and that's just wishful thinking, thought the same about uwu and ucob before. Even when parties take avoidable damage, in most fights the next damage don't happen for a while, resulting in you having way too much time to heal.
@@serahill Eh, I guess I’ve gotten lucky enough to run a lot of content recently with total newbies who don’t know what they’re doing even at endgame, so I have to work hard to keep ppl alive through their accumulated mistakes. I have a soft spot for newbies so I don’t mind babying these people & holding their hands through content. My logs look like trash but I don’t care bc I’m not trying to be competitive, just to have fun & clear content
@@Leroset It's funny that you replied today, my FC is organizing Rookie runs on current savage tier. We're gonna help people get into high-end content and get them over that first time anxiety. Might be a bit more fun that running the same fights with loggers.
one thing i don't see enough people talking about when discussing pvp is that small step in the direction opposite from the all too common homogenization. Apparently it's actually fun when the classes have different strengths and weaknesses, and you actually have to keep in mind what their limit breaks do, who woulda thought
It also has more balance concerns than anything we've seen PvE related in recent years. Who would have thought developing both unique and balanced jobs is hard.
@@Verd254 thx. Now i am convinced of the depressing thought that all the dumbing down was done to give the dev team an easier job with balancing. Then following it by saying it was meant for the mentaly challenged.
... until you get to the point where WHM is ridiculously overtuned and you see 2 of them in every CC match this is why we have job homogenization which - surprise, surprise - is actually a good thing
@@TheCrimsonFacker always has been. It's a scale where you have perfect balance with 0 variance on one side and turbulent cycles of op/up on the other, where classes can be 100% required in content or so suboptimal you'll need to suck a hundred dicks to get in. The former is already balanced by default, the latter is impossible to balance. The truth is, as always, somewhere in the middle
For some reason I expected sage to have one because their whole thing is the pew pew healer that heals from dpsing. I never looked at any of the overviews of the job before I picked it up and got disappointed.
Imagine just something simple like if they attack 4 times they get access to a special stronger attack, 4 of those and bam, finisher, its the simplest combo in the world but it'd be a mile more engaging!
FFXIV healing is just the logical conclusion of how raids are designed in modern MMOs. When MMOs were a test of resources vs boss mechanics, healers mattered, they kept your raid alive, rotating healers to regenerate mana was something you had to do, using consumables to keep your mana topped up, ect. Modern MMOs try to fake difficulty by replacing resource management with groundfire one shot dodging, meaning that you're simply waiting for the tanks or random raid damage to lower their health to 50% so you can cast a heal, while applying your DPS with a basic low effort rotation because having to focus on DPS AND heal bars means that you're making a role that is more complicated. Its why I am in the firm position that every class in MMOs should have multiple roles. Your main role (The trinity) and an off role (CC, Kiting, offtank, lockdown, ect) you know, all those old roles that were replaced by infinite AOE threat that made every encounter a braindead groundfire dodging, when what we really need is more player engagement with the boss that isn't just playing a more and more complicated DDR song that is your rotation.
Old MMOs were braindead. They had no mechanics you had to think about nearly as much as Savages or Ultimates. They were just long slogs where your healers spammed their abilities and everyone just debuffed all bosses enough to ignore their damage. Everybody could just stand still and spam the same abilities for every fight . . . same as they do now, except you actually have to think about movement and mechanics going on. Everquest wishes it actually had any challenge content. The only challenge there is getting people together for it. Or FF XI where they just released stupidly over-statted bosses like AV to make artificial difficulty.
It’s hard to take his endgame takes that are even close to decent seriously especially when he talks about raiding. Especially with his “villain arc” tone for things sounding more authoritative than he really is with his limited raid experience.
I can't express enough how discouraging it is to play as a healer, feel like my role is important, accidentally die, and then watch the tank take out the boss on their own. It's so invalidating. It's like, "Awe, you thought we actually needed you? That's cute." 😳🥺😭
Im a new player, just finished ARR propper. I really enjoy scholar as an idea, but playing the job in MSQ is indeed ridiculously boring. One damage button and 10 variants of healing. I finished all extreme trials while just mashing 1, its kinda sad :/
Scholar has the benefit of being able to play Summoner in MSQ and playing Scholar in duty's. Though now that Summoner is also brain dead it isn't as helpful.
@@Irimu_ everyone keeps saying it's braindead but for me who gets easily overwhelmed by giant complex rotations Summoner was the perfect job for me leveling through msq these past months.
It is most certainly not brain dead. Easier than other dps, yes. But people saying it’s brain dead don’t play at 90 or don’t play hard content or if they do they probably parse like garbage.
@@Awsomeness103 I feel bad for old Summoners but I don't have anything against simple jobs. I just hope we get to keep some of the complexity in the game.
God I want a healer equivalent of gunbreaker in terms of play style so damn bad. Like you just do a combo/rotation well enough and you get rewarded with a strong heal or something. That would be so sick.
You cannot throw out the grenade that is this rotation 2:40 and walk away like nothing happened. It is beautiful and only gets better the more you look at it
would you like to meet our God and saviour Dragon Kick rotation? You spam dragon kick until you need to reapply twin snakes/demolish/bootshine, then spam it some more. Weave in your buffs and chakra on cd (ideally getting two demolishes within RoF but at this point who cares lmao). This is about a 100 dps loss as compared to optimal drift monk rotation.
As a AST main, I'm kind of grateful for my "1" button rotation. In practice though it's far from a 1 button DPS rotation. Have to manage cards, divination raid buff, star, your 3 seals and macrocosmos. Then you have a million oGCDs heals to juggle. Early game is kind of lame because you rely heavily on GCD healing but as you get to the end game, it's all about figuring out how to NOT cast GCDs and rely off oGCDs. I've healed in a few other games like WoW (on monk and shaman), Aion (cleric), Lineage 2 (Bish) and SWTOR (Agent). They each have their charms but I've never felt so busy as I have on FFXIV's AST. It gets into some pretty 5head territory; especially with the game's emphasis on healer DPS.
I´m actually doing my transission from WHM to AST at the moment, because I heard, that you have alot more to do with that class. WHM was my first class I played until the fnale of Endwalker and damn even though the new dungeons and raids were some new nervwrecking stuff, at the end of the day it was very boring to play. So I hope AST can reignite the healing flame for me, otherwise I might just change to BRD or RDM.
@@Demagogines Yeah man go for it! That's the strongest part of FFXIV; freely switching classes :) Now if only they'd do something about the end game gearing system for people who play multiple classes regularly T_T
@@Demagogines I had the opposite experience. My first healer was AST and I've pretty much mastered it. At the end of the day I was very bored of it because I didn't feel like my buffs did anything. All they did was offset your basic low damage marginally with buffs but with 5x the weaving complexity. I've recently made a new WHM character and recently hit 90 and it is hands down my favorite healer by far. All the instantaneous damage you could ask for, a healing kit that once you get afflatus misery and afflatus rapture makes incredibly good. WHM sucks to 50, is mediocre until Rapture and Misery. Then it feels like an absolute powerhouse of rapid heals. Plenary indulgence finally works due to having afflatus rapture, and it makes casting Afflatus Misery so much more worth it. Ultimately with AST I never felt like my buffs were worth a damn, just a very curated "under ideal optimal conditions with perfect card play your overall damage/output with buffs is...still less than every other healer." Sure, I have "more to do," but frankly they don't matter. It's more work for less effectiveness. It's busywork without the reward. WHM as it is actually feels punchy and nothing can replace holy and assize spam. SGE's SFX are lame, though I have yet to play scholar. Unfortunately getting magical Jordans for your capstone level 90 ability is very disappointing if you ask me, even if it's tactically incredible.
@@whythefuckdowehavethisherenow WHM felt really good to me in 6.1 after the buffs. If I want to heal a duty that's probably the healer I would go with right now. It's also the only healer that was improved in 5.0, although this probably isn't saying much since it was the worst designed job in the game at the time. It's still a shame about Aero 3 though, of all the healers WHM certainly has the design space to handle a 2nd dot... AST has too many buttons and feels like busywork like you said, and the cards are all the same now and it ruins the job fantasy for me, but I might give it another chance if the 6.2 changes are good. Although I would say it's more fun than WHM when you're stuck in a dungeon with a WAR that just doesn't need any healing since shuffling cards is still more fun than just standing there and spamming one button. SCH is a dead job to me, I just don't like it anymore after 5.0. Unless they bring back the unique fairies and the plaguedoctor playstyle I could throw away the job stone and I wouldn't notice it. SGE is... fine I guess?
@@harryn7518 This comment is a bit old by now, but in my experience any time I see someone question why things are the way they are in XIV they get shouted at to go play another game if they don't like it. Balance issues are one thing, but questioning design choices is another.
I was so excited when Sage was announced because in my mind I thought it would be a hyper-complex healer with single-target and AoE heals directly proportionate to dealing damage, that when played correctly could dump massive damage naturally. Sage is still my favorite healer now if only because sometimes getting to use a charge of Phlegma in between my single damage button spam gives me the happy chemical.
I really wished the next healer would be based on a ranged physical dps instead of a ranged magical dps like every other healer, having a more complicated dps rotation but removing cast time to compensate, so people don't complain about their dps
Being a healer overall is boring. I'd much prefer if those classes could affect the battlefield or enemies. Debuffs are a huge thing that modern MMOs forgot about. You don't deal damage, but you can debuff the crap outta enemies to make them much easier to handle, lower their damage, make them miss, CC them, debuff their damage resistance, all things that should be everywhere in healer kits, not just on maybe two skills of two classes.
IMAGINE HOW COOL IT COULD BE TO GIVE THE ENEMY A CHANCE TO RANDOMLY MISS! Imagine how hype it would be during a super high end raid that your random debuff makes a raid wide just miss, it'd be so incredibly cool! (if slightly broken, but woe is me, a move that can influence a fight)
I really like this idea. Puts me in mind of Radiation defenders from CoH. Probably couldn't do anything that extreme in FF14, but you could totally have like a reverse Astrologian, who focused on Vuln Up and Damage Down on enemies during their non-healing time.
Healer roles will always suffer from dichotomy of design: They can't feature complex rotations because they need to be able to react to circumstances (you can't design them with perfect players in mind) but to make them interesting relies on people actively making mistakes. You end up in a situation where you can have lots of "fun" (or busybodying) in low skill scenarios (Alliance Raids, PFs, farm parties), feel borderline useless and kinda boring in mid-high skill scenarios (Prog raiding with a skilled group, reclears, log runs) where you're just mashing your DPS button until the encounter design requests that you stop doing so, and (I imagine this is what Yoshi-P meant with "play Ultimates if you want Healer to be challenging") only trully "engaging" in those encounter designs where it is REQUIRED for you to heal a party to keep it alive. I think just like you consider having to press many distinct buttons (and therefore dislike XIVCombos) "fun", I personally don't find it all that interesting, therefore I don't think Healers are "Not Fun" nor they lack complexity. Personally, I find the resource management, reaction/prediction based gameplay, and accurate targeting to be the enjoyable and mostly unique aspect of the Healer Role, and that if you want more rotation complexity (but still be a "support" role), go play Red Mage or Summoner (now if only Squeenix would give us support heals that actually healed anything more than a pittance) Note that this doesn't mean I wouldn't be open to changes to the healer role to be more specialized, but I do question how would you make this fit into the design of FFXIV. I think it could be made to work if GCD heals don't break DPS combos, and Healers not have a "2 minute clockwork rotation", as to not be afraid of drifting.
Those are in reality non problems in the current game thanks to charges and gauges coupled with how strong oGCD heal options are. My 2 cents here as someone with experience in healers up to ultimate would be: -Whm: Add a 60s offensive lily action, would help build misery without overheal and woudn't get in the way of the healing as at best it would consume 1/3th of the lilies of a encounter, make thin air nourish the bood lily when used on a gcd heal and make every gcd build stacks/gauge to use on a stronger gcd attack (think a gcd shinten). If they make so healing gcds build more energy than dps gcds then whm could have gauge management that doesn't get in the way of healing (as you could bank uses in the form of excess of gauge), could reduce the glare spam in over 40% without drastically changing the identity of the job nor its playstyle -Sch: GIB DOTS, for real dots are really noob friendly as delaying them is not that big of a loss vs a normal gcd not used and a job with high % of dot damage loses less when forced to switch a nuke for a gcd heal, change aetherflow so it doesnt penalize the dps when healing is used and instead reward the player for using this gauge. They could also add cds related to dots with charges like old fester or shadowflare. -Sge: This one is interesting, they could create a cooldown (with charges) based offensive version of eukrasia that changes dosis and dyskrasia into a reaper like combo with 2 branches (dosis->dyskrasia or dyskrasia->dosis) with different effects, think 1 with big damage and the other with a damage buff like War that also gives addersting. Then add a 60/120s combo with addersting (like gnb's continuation combo) to spice things up, add a trait so every addersting action reduces phlegma cd and phlegma uses reduce the offensive eukrasia cd. Since all of that is charged based it could be delayed at will, being gcd based allows the sge to keep the healing with its massive ogcd kit and thanks to the loop (Offensive Eukrasia gives addersting, addersting action lower the cd of phlegma, phlegma lowers the cd of Offensive Eukrasia...) the player could keep control of the speed of its rotation being able to accerlerate it when low healing is required and having a slower one when they have to heal (an extra dot in the form of eukrasia dyskrasia would be appreciated too) -Ast: For this one I think an extra dot and more card management would be fine, instead of trying hard to make every card the same I think a fixed deck with cards that are stronger and weaker would be better. Let's say Ast has 6 cards in its deck (1 of each) divided into 3 ranged and 3 melee, give them tiers from 1 to 3 being tier 1 a weak 2% increase and tier 3 a 8-9%, with that every time Ast draws, the cards remaining in the deck would be reduced by 1, changing the % of getting a stronger one in the next draw, as such actions like redraw would be more impactful and new actions like discarding a card to draw other (reducing the number of cards in the deck) or discarding a bad card to improve the effect of the next card used could be implemented changing the ast mentality from "get seals and gib card" to micromanage its options to guarantee the maximum number of strong cards while getting the most out of their weak one be in the way of discarding them or powering up the strong ones. Biggest drawback for this is that ast would need an action that opens more weaving windows which probably a cd reduction of lightspeed coupled with the dot could do. I feel all of those would be much more interesting than current healer iterations without getting in the way of healing
@@SWKJaviK Also one thing about dots is they can have different durations so that players don't just say "Oh it's dot time now have to cast TWO gcds" Lilybell should cost a lily, be a gcd, and feed the blood lily. Stylistically it just makes sense. Sage should have a cooldown that puts a "kardia" on a target ENEMY causing their damaging spells to proc extra damage for a short duration. AST 100% needs lightspeed with 2 charges unless weaving is getting less insane
No offense, but did you start playing in Shadowbringers? Every healer had more DPS buttons in the past and healing was in a better state than it is now. It's not some crazy change from how the "game is designed" and telling people who want this to return in some aspect to just play DPS jobs is insulting. Stormblood Scholar had DoTs it maintained while not stopping it from healing, and having 3 DoTs to upkeep was not super complex. It's not about "2 minute rotations!!" its about making our role more engaging in ALL levels of content. Even in TEA, an overwhelming majority of your casts will be your 1 DPS spell and 1 DoT, Ultimate doesn't offer a more engaging experience on healers and those who think it does clearly haven't done Ultimate. It's not about making healers challenging, and Yoshida's response wasn't addressing what the question was asking at all. We want healers to be engaging.
@@kidragora Nope, I started in Heavensward, and I played those healers. What I meant is the game has clearly shifted focus, you can even see it in the old content that was reworked where a lot more raidwides are casted by the bosses. I'm not saying it's impossible either, just that I personally don't think healers need dos buttons to be "fun", they are "the most fun" when things go sideways *and that is ok*. If you make Healers fun when they can DPS (because no healing is required) you'll encourage non-hesling healers, and even potential toxicity when they're "rudely interrupted" by that DPS who stood in orange juice. Or at least that is my hypothesis.
@@Meoiswa We're going to have to agree to disagree, since healers historically had a LOT more damage skills in the past and it was never an issue with people being toxic over having to actually heal instead of DPS. RIP Aero III.
"giving a little more to manage is not going to make them worse when they can already be close to rock bottom" is legendary and literally just true. villain arc of the century.
We had high skill ceilings for tanks and healers back in the day, but people whined and complained because playing a tank or healer was like playing a damage dealer with extra responsibilities. And who the fuck wants to be responsible for their own output AND the output of others?
I think the solution was to have more outgoing damage, so healers have to focus on actually healing rather than just expecting them to be DPS classes during the downtime. WoW does a much better job in that area in my opinion because there's tons of outgoing damage constantly, and you have to be healing every second.
@@KyokujiFGC WoW also has more diverse healer playstyles though and most healers have more dps abilities and often stronger synergies with them in their healing toolkit compared to FF14. Like, Discipline Priest is ideally just doing full on healing through dps for most of the time, Monk has Fist Weaving and Paladin has the melee playstyle where you reduce holy shock cd and generate healing ressources through dpsing.
Preach! I've been shouting this from the rooftops for years. I miss my old Scholar with 5 DoTs and manual Embrace! Did you see the live letter recently where one of the most upvoted questions was about this very subject? Yoshi-P's response was that if you want healing to be fun go play Ultimates. Oh and their dungeon balance testing healer got too good so they had to replace him for someone worse, so dungeons will have even more lax healing requirements. YAY. Part of why I've fallen in love with the new PvP is just because they removed healing buttons and put an emphasis on support / damage. Sage is like 90% damage buttons. Thank Hydaelyn! It's simplistic but I'd love that kind of job diversity in PvE. As it stands I have to get my kicks by playing chicken with everyone's health while praying that someone fucks up so that I have an interesting problem to solve
I understand the concept of having Ultimate content be for more tryhards, but as someone who sits in the in-between, it sucks. I don't really care to dedicate months to a consistent schedule to clear savage/ultimate content with strangers. But I also feel like the normal content (outside of groups of players who are new and/or bad) is too easy for healers. It's hard though, because a group that is terrible is incredibly difficult to carry sometimes (broken underlevelled equipment, no damage mitigation, DPS not AOE-ing, standing in every mechanic). I think to make healing more interesting, they would have to have a higher level of entry period. Right now it feels like "are players competent and know the basics of their job? I spam my one attack button; did the players level skip and not even bother to learn anything about the game? my job is to try and carry them and if there is any oops, it is my fault". I'm used to a healer role being a babysitter of sorts and I really am okay carrying as long as people aren't jerks, but it feels bad that there doesn't seem to be a way to cater to helping competent players. AST has buffs, but the buffs feel so inconsequential in regular content (especially if that competent player isn't being optimal in rotation). I just want something to focus on in regular content that can elevate and make things a bit more interesting. I would have loved if Sage required being more optimal with DPS and getting healing in return for the level of optimization (or the inverse). It sort of works like that, but the numbers remain low to match the other healers. I would also love if healers did more damage, period. Beef up the numbers but tie them to doing a rotation properly. Idk. I don't negate that its a difficult quandary, some things are still needlessly tedious while others are needlessly simplified, but I'd just like them to try. More tools like Earthly Star would be lovely, if we are to DPS and heal, give us more decisions in how to do both efficiently. Again, I get the apprehension to add necessary healing to regular content, but they could make the kit more rewarding for optimal play.
Honestly the most fun I have as a healer is when playing with a tank who either does wall to wall pulls or doesn't know what he's doing. I play WHM and in those moments it actually becomes a fun class you have to think about. In that sense, I wouldn't mind if dungeon design was a little bit meaner with its mobs. I've said this before about bosses - basically every attack that a boss throws out is either a party-wide blast meant to be countered with AOE healing, or it's a dodgeable attack that'll kill you. Honestly though? I'm not sure the boss design thing bothers me THAT much. Like, let's be real: the interesting part about ff14's bosses is doing the different mechanics. Sure, you might be doing your rotation, but at the end of the day that becomes pretty rote. Hell, the worst part of learning a new class is when you DON'T have the rotation burned into your brain. Maybe you get excited when you get to slam your proc'd OGCD button. Mostly the boss fights live and die by the boss AOE's. One button, 8 buttons, rotation size doesn't really matter to me.
i hated getting tanks who had 0 clue what to do in dungeons while levelling healer. You'd get some French Warrior who doesnt even know what bloodwhetting or equilibrium is, in the lv 85 dungeon. I'll let them die and leave the instance, before i have to spam all my cooldowns and not DPS at all because they want to put in 0 effort.
no kidding, they literally talk about learning from wow but arguably the major thing that started the slide on wow was the massive pruning of every single remotely interesting ability, talents, any kind of choice at all, all got streamlined down to REEEEE THIS IS THE META GOTO ICYVEINS/NOXX OR GET KICKED. EVERY utility or flavor ability gone like eyes of the beast(let hunters control their pet for fun or scouting), eagle eye(let you look around at a distant point you could target), all the various warlock debuffs so it was only purely REEEEE DAMAGE! HAVING TO DEBUFF ENEMIES BASED ON WHAT RESISTANCES THEY HAVE IS TOO DIFFICULT FOR AVERAGE ANDYS! dumbed down the game massively, then at the same time some how for some reason mainly only focused on endgame.... dumbing the game down massively+focusing on hard end game stuff = bad dead game lol
I love the ideas presented at the end especially for the SCH changes; I want that version of SCH in the game. I haven't played FFXIV since Shadowbringers so I was confused and disappointed when I learned in this video that Nocturnal Sect was removed... Healer boredom is definitely something I'm familiar with. I think the last time I had fun playing Green DPS was playing SCH in Diamond EX since there was just enough group damage going out at a consistent rate to actually force occasional decision-making.
ngl, AST has so many ogcd heals that i just forget to use them(celestial intersection, celestial opposition, crown play & exaltation), but also half of them are designed for you to cast and forget them(earthly star, horoscope, macrocosmos, exaltation again). its...weird. not bad, but weird. i wouldnt mind even simple combos after malefic that could maybe eat my cards that dont have the astrosign i need at the time(the option to throw them away is still absurd). i also miss nocturnal sect. the versatility to be a shield healer when we already had regen was just...nice
Gunna say it... AST is the most unique healer. The rng buffs and time based healing allows for constant management you just don't get with the other healers. It's a lot more complex to play AST because you have to keep cycling between all of your Ogcd's as well as your cards and dps tactics.
I really wish healers had healing rotations that fed into bigger dps abilities. But boss design just doesn't support this at all, so it will remain my pipe dream.
Tbh, the only healer that has a healing rotation....somewhat is Scholar. The rest legit has one button to chonk heal at any given moment. I know Lustrate exists, but thats Aetherflow stacks being used and having to manage between cooldowns unless you gotta disapate...for some reason.
@@StealthMaster5k Yeah there's a TON you can do with it. I mostly come from playing Holy Paladin in recent wow expansions (lmao wow bad game). But it's a really interesting approach, hpal is a melee healer, where they have a healing button and a damage button that they basically spam. Each of those buttons give a resource that can be spent on large heals or a little damage. Best comparison was if broil gave you aetherflow, which you could then spend on heals or energy drain the same way. However WoW fight design swings way more towards constant damage you need to heal, so it almost all goes into healing. But it's that sort of mixing of the two kits and back and forth that feels really good.
White Mage and Sage already have something like that with Misery and Toxicon, they just need to give the other healers something like that, and make it a little more involved
Glad to see another content creator point out how stupid and short-sighted the Regen/Barrier healer paradigm is. It's super aggravating that the healer role fundamentally fails at basic game design (something I pointed it out in my own healer video). When your game has a feature that rewards mastery with boredom, the concept needs to be scrapped and remade. Good video as always that is refreshingly blunt with the very coddled playerbase.
Hot take: I was a healer main in SWTOR and Secret World (Old, not legends). And honestly, I hate healin in FF14. Here you have to calculate how much HP your party can safely have without causeing a wipe, because of no sustained dmg. If I want to dps, then maybe I would play a DPS job. If I play a healer, I dunno I want to HEAL! In SWTOR I liked healing, because it was different in the aspect then most of the fight I look at party members keeping them afloat, it is different, maybe when they are good I dish out 1-2 attack and back to healing (Had to space it out otherwise the game punishes you) Here I look at it, they are full. I blink twice don't look at it for a few milliseconds, and either the tank is at 5% hp or the whole party is. 3 OGCD later everything is ok back to spamming 1. I'm a tank main in ff14 and I can't blame when the healers are asleep during encounters. Healing aspect is actually most engaging in dungeons, and especially Tower of Zot and Holmsterswitch because mobs are kinda overtuned. That is why it is bizarre for me how players defend this "healer is a green dps". It shouldn't be. I'd rather keep myself engaged with targetting party members and dodging aoe's through out the encounter than spamming 1 through out the encounter. In the other MMO's even if the others play perfectly you are still busy, most of the time. Here if everybody plays perfectly you rarely heal. There is a reason why there is no dedicated HoT healer in this game (I play AST and that as close as you can get to that.) You would keep those up on the tank, and your CO healer becomes unnecessary, if it's a shield healer, shit your entire party would be always max health.
Adding a couple buttons to healers won't really do anything. It would have to be changed fundamentally. Healers already have to optimize more than some DPS jobs, looking at you RPR, but it doesn't even feel good/rewarding until 3/4th turns of savage tiers or ultimates. If you don't enjoy optimizing healing for high end encounters, or don't want to do something mind-numbingly chill for daily content, then healing probably isn't for you. - if they add a couple extra buttons it doesn't change anything because it would still be very simple. We need full interactive rotations. Like healing combos that boost dps potencies and vice versa, which would also require encounters to have more light amounts of damage - if they make savage/ultimate content just spam damage constantly then you get WoW were healing is like 80-90% of an encounter and some classes don't do like any damage at all
Problem with optimizing healers, is that your reward for learning the fight and CD use is casting even more of your single target spell. Who would want to be rewarded with yet another cast of your nuke when unoptimized play is already festered with 70% casts of your nuke.
"Every job I touch turns to dust" God. Loved Astro, Bard, and Warrior when Stormblood came out. 4.2 killed Warrior for me. Loved Monk near the end of Stormblood. 5.0 killed it for me. 5.0 killed Astro for me. 5.0 killed Bard for me. Mained Dancer in Shadowbringers. 6.0 killed it for me. Quote is all too real, lmao
warrior till 4.2, drk till 5.0, healer (mostly whm) for all of SHB, feel like im in the same boat, maybe us cursed individuals should just go main the 'popular' classes so our curse destroys the things other people like and then they'll realise what it's like to see the class they love suddenly change into some twisted abomination wearing its face and name
@@Lazyhandle Understandable! I still do enjoy Warrior, especially in Endwalker compared to Shadowbringers. I still thought Monk was okay in Shadowbringers, but I honestly have yet to level it 80-90 yet. I just had so much fun with the double Tornado Kick rotations it's hard to like it as much anymore. But I level everything anyways so I'll get to it soon enough
@@IrisSaiya you should give it a chance phantom Rush looks incredible and I love that insane number it produces. But I feel you, they did change the identity of Monk but I'm one of the people that prefer how it is now and the numbers it produces instead of pure rapid DPS. Obviously that's my opinion, but thank you!
Looking at it slightly differently healers being the role that has less of a dps rotation is honestly a good thing for a lot of people. I personally really enjoy having a easy to use rotation while focusing more on other factors (Party health and oGCD healing) to keep myself engaged. If someone wants a healer that presses a lot of buttons astro fits that pretty well atm as well, even if their "main damage" is still the dot and single button. The other issue that could come up with having a healer with a full rotation is the amount of buttons they have, because having the full rotation plus a full healing kit would be more than any current job. This is all assuming current boss design stays as is.
Astro is missing some quality of life adjustments, but I agree it's pretty close to reaching that threshold of DPS engagement (busyness? idk what term to use) that a lot of players are looking for. Lord/lady card split is a good step forward for example but awkward since you generally are fishing for lord. If it was reworked to instead be a second set of cards for random DPS spells that could be cool
FFXIV finally has popular youtubers that make a career of complaining about it constantly while still playing and loving the game, we’ve truly hit the big time.
5:08 is some harsh truth they need to realize. Re: DPS, what is insane to me is the healers have the exact same 1 button spam from level 4 to level 90. In any other role that would be absolutely unacceptable. Healers are "rewarded" by playing well with. . . boring gameplay.
Things I'd do to fix healers In general 1. give them at least one damage rotation. Please, I don't like spamming the same button over and over again. 2.Have the lower level spells just upgrade to the better version. I'm not keeping Cure 1 on my hot bar when I get Cure 2 3. Make the classes distinct. I'll get into more detail White mage could be a healer/buffer. The buffs the give are based on elements. Fire gives an attack boost, lightning raises crits, wind speeds up movement, and earth raises defense. The party can only have one of those buffs, but you should be cycling through them frequently. Maybe make the buffs short and back to back buffs become shorter to encourage cycling. Scholars should be shields and debuffs. Give them multiple dots to maintain. The more you maintain them, the better they become. The healing fairy ( can't remember their names) helps maintain shields while the other can help maintain one dot. You could even have the dots slowly heal allies nearby. Sage should be dps heal. Every hit should heal/shield the party. The bigger hits give better heals. Death by a thousand cuts essentially. Astrologian could fill any of these rolls or all if they hate themselves. I'm not as knowledgeable for this class, so any suggestions for how that'll work would be cool. I assume the cards could do something with that.
What's always bothered me is that everyone seems perfectly content with healers having so few damage buttons. If 85% of all tank's abilities were damage reducing cooldowns, there would be a RIOT, but for some reason they think its okay for healers. its infuriating.
The difference is boss is stripted, player isn't, Boss will always use raid wide damage or tankbuster regardless your tank performance, and tank mitigation only use in said raid wide damage/tankbuster but not outside of those. Player however, unless is trust, player you have in every boss/raid encounter will be DIFFERENT than the previous one. If player did boss mechanic correctly? No healing needed. If player failes to do boss mechanic? Ready your healz and ressez because you are in big trouble now. Last but not least, are player in your next encounter gonna act as same as the player in your previous encounter? Nah
Weirdly enough I find managing my dots a lot harder on healers than any other job I‘ve played so far. The Paladin dots can be ignored entirely if I stay on top of my rotation but pressing the same gcd for 15 times and know that you have to reaply a dot is a lot harder for me for some reason.
that's because DPS and tank DoTs come up naturally in your rotation. Healers have no rotation. They just spam 1 button and then have to stop spamming it to reapply the DoT
Healing is overpowered in most content because it has to be. There are enough bad tanks in the game that don't use their mitigation, make stupid decisions like making the healer lose line of sight right before the healer finishes a heal cast, or doesn't dodge aoe because they think they can tank like they do in WoW where dodging aoe doesn't exist for them. It is tanks like these that will make you learn to appreciate the healing role for it's existence and teach you to get good at weaving heals in between each cast of Broil IV.
I definitely think XIV Combo should be an option, especially for controller users. There's very little skill expression in pressing 1 -> 2 -> 3 and it just takes up so much real estate on gamepad.
Going from Stormblood to Casualbringers was painful as a main healer, they demolished my boy SCH (removed Miasma, Miasma2 and Shadowflare, heck they even removed Energy Drain for a bit, luckly they re-added it) and they completely, utterly murdred AST, the old "Time Dilation / Celestial Opposition" astro was just amazing, it could have been a bit too powerful, but you had so many options and was just amazing, I have never touched it again since they destroyed it
Yes, all of this. I used to really enjoy playing healers now I stay far away. I don't want to smash one button. It's so weird they don't fix this. the better people get at scripted predictable content the less healing is needed so then what do you do? Spam your single target dps button. I'm still subbed for my house but im considering just ditching it
My major problem since coming back. Yeah they simplified the whole game, yes it lets other people get into it more, but also take the reward away from hardcores.
Unfortunately the developers design healers according to groups' first clear, where mistakes will happen and the massive healing tool will come in handy, and healers are actually fun as hell when you have to make decisions on which healing tool to use in different fucked up situations. They don't give a shit about optimised runs, where healing is minimal and all you need to do is press Glare. Sadly the JP community generally supports the "Healing should just heal, if you want to dps go play DPS" idea, so I highly doubt this trend will ever change.
This idea would be pretty cool if people fucking up didn't result 80%+ of the time swiftcast res or 10%+ of the time wipe. Sure those few times where you have them and it changes the outcome is cool, but the game isn't even designed for healers carrying fuckups, either. It's a nothing design that caters to almost nobody, especially when you consider that having a few more DPS buttons wouldn't change that at all.
Of course they support the idea, because yes, when I play as a healer I want to HEAL not Spam Malefic! If I want to DPS I play a DPS. Everyone praises the "everybody DPS" part of the game desing when in SWTOR between heals I also had window to put 1-2 GCD when party was topped of and back to healing. Healing is a failure in this game because as the Renyci says, if the DPS does something wrong, he gets either almost dead, or actually dies and goes the rez. As a healer you are litereally only necessary if you or other people don't know the fight. Most of the time I just put the 2 Aspected HoT on Tank, and he doesn't need any GCD or OGCD heals.
@@ObviousHUN clearly you don't do savages, because Abyssos actually requires healers to heal and not fall asleep on their glare button. You also couldnt beat the DPS check for P8S on launch without healers doing serious DPS. SWTOR healers basically had nothing to do in most fights besides spamming heals, because they were badly designed
@@chaptap8376 Granted, I forgot to add savage there that's my bad. Spamming heals not so much. As I said: If I wanna dps, I would play a DPS class. If everybody is what is the point of the red icon? you press more buttons, that's it. I rather keep myself busy with healing because my brain does the goody-good chemicals when I see everybody topped off. Could make healers busy with cleansing dots, and what not.
I main AST. There's plenty I don't like about AST. But I do think that them having damage boosts to dole out to break up the malefic spam is a good idea in principle. Because (and let me preface this by saying that yes, I DO dps as a healer), when I play a healer, it's because I want to support a party. I dps because I HAVE to, not because I WANT to, and making the healers more focused on dps is the opposite of fixing that particular problem. Except maybe Sage, since "dps to heal" is basically what they sold the class as. That one's fair. Also, since I seem to have caught a case of evil from you, let me add this: I am SICK of people making videos smugly telling everyone, "a healer is ACSHUALLY just another dps". As if that itself isn't fucking stupid. If everyone started telling you you HAD to offheal with Vercure or Clemency, people who played those jobs would lose their shit because that is NOT why they picked them. But healers who don't WANT to dps? "Eat shit, that's just how it is." Anyway: still a pretty good video, with some real good points.
I like a lot of your content and opinions about the game, Chair, but I really think that a lot of this talk is speaking through Rose-tinted glasses and generalizing by saying it's things everyone wants. Like, I get it, playing healer can and is most of the times boring. I just finished getting Astro to 90 a couple of days ago because I was just lazy and now I only really hop on for Savage Prog with friends. I understand the complaint. Having only 1 dps button and 1 dot to keep up is pretty boring and mind numbing in some cases, but to that I ask why add more buttons for the sake of having more buttons instead of creating a more cohesive toolkit? Giving Scholar more dots is cool, just giving it a button from Summoner is not because it has no business being there. A friend of mine who played White Mage for Shadowbringers savage as well as playing pretty much everything at this point brings up a good idea. "I want the kit to have cohesion. If SCH is to get DoT management they should gain more dot focused buttons. I dont want a Tri-disaster button on SCH because it makes Dots something you almost never interact with. Have sch able to spread dots using Deployment tactics, giving that button a purpose in dungeons. From there SCH can get 60s and 120s cooldowns to use in burst windows. 120s CD could detonate dots for their full potency and then have the SCH recast them. its 2min so they'd snapshot the reapply dots in buffs. 60s could be something like fester to do more damage the more dots they have. You can also give longer CD dots like Sonic break." Neither of us believe in the idea of just giving more buttons to classes for the sake of having them. When it comes down to it, I really think the whole bit about Nocturnal Sect is just Nostalgia to the point you literally just don't remember how no one ever pressed that button outside of two scenarios ever: You're progging savage with a White Mage, or there's another Astro and you have to turn off your healer equivalent of a tank stance so your regens don't overlap. It's the "illusion of free choice" meme in its rawest form. I played Astro since Shadowbringers and pretty much everyone I knew told me that it had no use since the heals were weak, and the shields were barely worth it especially with Neutral sect giving you the best of both worlds. It was cool in concept, but the actual application was so meddling that I feel it played a bigger part in its removal than wanting to have an even distribution between raw healing and shields. The video has good points, I'm not denying that, but I feel a lot of it is just generalizations and half-baked ideas and ramblings on par with Lucy Pyre's Dark Knight video, which is no lie one of the worst videos I've seen in all the time I've spent playing and watching content around FFXIV. It's a good video, but I really think you just needed more time to sit on these ideas, but I guess the "Villain arc" is making you impulsive.
With the new healer strike trying to go on and getting attention... Honesyly this whole thing is even more needed. Like this is every single thing in yhis video is needed, needs to be talked about and how good its points are.
I’m convinced that if it weren’t for the WoW exodus last year, 14’s population would be plummeting right now. They are dumbing down the jobs so much I actually don’t enjoy savage anymore and am considering unsubbing. And I only started raiding in Shadowbringers. I’ve played since 3.3 and I’ve literally never let my sub run out. That’s how much I hate these changes. Here’s all they need to do to fix it: 1. Give WHM, SCH, and AST their Stormblood rotations again. Give sage a gigabrain rotation and make it more like disc priest (your healing comes almost exclusively from dealing damage and the heal depends on the damage of the spell) 2. Put every cooldown on the timer it had last expac. To hell with 2 minute bursts, it’s boring. There’s nothing to think about. Party builds are dead. 3. De-homogenize tanks. Dark knight is discount warrior and it fucking sucks. There’s no excuse for every tank’s cooldowns to be literally identical. 3.5: Bring back the old tank stances. They don’t necessarily need to make aggro generation work like it did bc that tended to be a bit too harsh but at least make tanks choose between offense and defense. “Oh but what about casual players?” Here’s the thing: CASUALS DONT CARE ABOUT THIS STUFF! I was an Uber casual for YEARS. I didn’t know what a rotation was until I’d been playing the game for three years. Literally none of these changes will raise the skill floor at all. All the devs have done is lower the skill ceiling so much that the only interesting thing about the combat in 14 left is just encounters. Even those are becoming trivial because tanks and healers have virtually nothing to worry about. Day 1 Aglaia I played sage and it was insanely fun bc nobody knew what they were doing. Took like an hour and a half. I did it the following week on red mage, my main. It took 27 minutes. I think the only person who died fell off during Rhalgr. If the devs don’t seriously think about what they do to the jobs before/in 7.0 everyone who enjoys the gameplay will leave. Edit: spelling
Completely agree dude. Tons of people who've been playing for a long time have been complaining on the official forums, and even newer players are feeling burn out with how awful healing design is. I still have some jobs I enjoy, but if things haven't changed by 7.0 I'm completely out and never coming back to the game.
every time i read someone say "actually there's a conspiracy theory why everyone thinks like i do secretly even though the numbers dont pan out", i remember the absolute conviction i saw people say at the end of the StB patch cycle that XIV was done and winding down. anyway see you in 7.0
Healer since 3.0 and I miss Faust. The door mob in A1s. Halfway through, the healing intensity needed was so great that you couldn’t keep up without non stop double gcd heals. The enrage was just healers dropping the tank because it was actually that impossible. I want THAT! I want a “healing rotation” for high intensity burst damage happening in a fight, like E12s enrage, but imagine that just being a normal raid aoe. Or more zombie adds like the dragon heads in shinryu where you heal them to kill them. That is what i want. HPS big boy numbers and it to matter. I only feel alive in dungeons now when they have huge wall to walls I can test myself with. Fk a dps rotation! If i want complex damage rotations I can go play summoner. I want complex healing rotations…guess what…it already exists, but nobody knows the optimal healing rotation because nowhere ever do you need to optimize your hps. LET ME HEAL its like its the job I signed up for or something.
This is exactly it. I hate how everything in this game is diluted to DPS. I remember back when I first started and going through Coils, there was the AOS Sphere that would spam AOE damage and you’d have to chain cast Medica just to keep everyone alive. Fun stuff like that should be more common for healer-based mechanics.
I kind of need a citation for the healer numbers. By my understanding from census numbers, there are significantly more players leveling and gearing their healers in the last two expansion than ARR/HW/SB. Even if you account the growth of the base, it's still solid improvement. Which is what SE, at the end of the day, wants to see the most.
Healing should feel fun for majority of players, not balancing classes and roles around ~1% of players that play the game as a second job is a normal thing and I don't get why people are complaining.
The thing that always baffles me when people say they want fights that require more/random healing rather than getting more dps buttons is that making healing more engaging necessitates making it more difficult. So pretty much all you're accomplishing is raising the skill floor, making clearing fights harder for healers, but probably not much more engaging for experienced statics. So basically you're just making life worse for both parties. Even more casuals won't be able to meet the raised floor, and the floor won't be raised high enough that the hardcore will still likely be yawning. Like it or not, healer DPS was an elegant solution to this problem.
I didn't understand at first, but now I know. The chair is misshapen bc of the shear density of sarcasm forming its own gravitational mass. Thx for the vid. I have no opinion on the state of healers, I just enjoy laughing.
semi unrelated but also a nightmare experience with a healer lol- i'll never ever forget the nightmarish run of SoS ex with this god awful healer(can't remember her class), this actual 2 brain cell woman WIPED US FOR FOUR AND A HALF HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FOUR AND A HALF OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on the METEORS THAT YOU SIMPLY STACK FOR AT THE BEGINNING..... FOR FOUR AND A HALF HOURS!!!!!! i was main tanking she was of course my partnet, i was like dude DO NOT FREAKING MOVE I WILL COME TO YOU!!!! she would stand there, i'd stack, she'd run to where i was... EVERY SINGLE TIME FOR FOUR AND A HALF HOURS AS EVERYONE WAS TELLING HER TO STOP MOVING..... it's insane how bad some people are
I am sorry for your lost. As someone who 'mains' healing. It really isn't that hard. It's mostly, positioning, stay alive, and keep others alive. Listening to others is a skill that is very helpful in the game. And paying attention and learning from mistakes.
My problem with this is that it doesn’t answer the question of why there needs to be a healer role if all we want to do is make it easier for them to damage, or more interesting to damage. As a healer myself, my issue is that my healing kit is so rarely utilized. I mean, I make it a point to do a Recitation Succor in normal raids just to use it. Or Deployment Tactics. I can even live with Biolysis, Broil, and AoW as damage skills, what I want to do is have situations that make crit’ing an Aldo and then deploying the shield be the preferable response to a mechanic. Failing that, healers should get more support options. Chain Stratagem is a good example. Like old AST, healers should be taking up support tasks as well. Make it so my WHM cohealer in the static are using our mitigations to be successful. Make it so we are consciously buffing teammates as required. I’d be fine with Broil on repeat if I felt like I was using GCDs to support the team in other ways, too.
I don't get how everyone thinks healing is too easy. I've consistently caused wipes because I just wasn't fast enough at healing. It's gotten so bad that at this point I NEED a friend I can talk to in voice chat as a tank, otherwise I'm never ever touching a healing class. After watching the video, I guess I'm the type of player that's the problem for you people.
"This game is also notorious for high-end healers that drop their whole party who fucked up a mechanic when they could have just lived through it with an extra heal." .. wait, what? As a healer main since 2007 (from WoW) this makes zero sense to me. I have seen the mentality a bit in-game too and I just do not understand it. Then these players usually end up asking me how I healed through [bad situation] and I always tell them "I just, healed." Don't hold a grudge about it, just do your job and heal. Healers who fail to heal and let players die are bad healers. And yes, you can clear high-end content and still be a bad player. It happens quite often.
Could be interesting to have healing spells with a duality to them? Heals if targeting an ally, does some kind of damage and combo trigger if cast on an enemy? That also means there could be some interaction between the two, getting to a certain part of the combo tree, and changing target to do bonus damage or healing with an additional effect. This way you can make it as interesting as you want. Focus on healing if you need to, but you can effortlessly transition into a DPS rotation when healing isn't necessary. No button bloat, just...uh... tooltip bloat
Wow actually did that just now with the Evoker, their standart filler spell is both a heal and a dps cast. You can say what you want about the game, at least they give some fucks about designing healing classes...and tanks.
As someone who came from WoW and played healers, I did notice that very "braindead" playstyle and I have only played Scholar. I literally spam Ruin and and heal with 3 buttons essentially. WoW healing was fairly exciting because the fights had impact on the party so there was always something to heal. And if not then the your dps buttons were complex too. I'm thinking of picking up Astro later because that seems like the most complex of all the healers.
as a SCH main, I was super happy with the changes to SMN....because it filled me with the innocent hope that they were opening the door for SCH to become the DOT class again, and give me back my bane = .=. dot management was what drew me to SCH in the first place. maybe someday....
See this is why I play astrologian. I think it completely fixes the problem you are talking about by being a differfent take on healing and fitting better into the "proactive" healing playstyle FF14 seems to want to promote. Yes, it has a simple DPS rotation but quite frankly if it was any harder I'd cry. But the current RNG on the cards in addition to the fact that many abilities are best used when you can anticipate and use them at the best moment makes it more fun. You kinda get to play a little puppet master game with everyone's HP bars - enemies included. You can heal strategically, instead of healing randomly when you see an HP bar drop. For example, some bosses have attacks that hit everyone and hit no matter what, so you can set up earthly star 10 seconds prior, and pop collective unconscious right before the damage hits, then recast earthly star. Mitigating the damage, healing everyone to full health, and dealing big damage. You also manage buffing yourself and party members to then give yourself more buffs to deal more damage. The slightly "busy" card system makes up for the "simple" damage rotation, because you have to throw in your card and heals off cool down, or strategically place them ahead of time. I guess if you are one of the people that connects with this video, maybe try astro out? I think it solves a lot of the issues addressed in unique way.
lol, he crossed out Blue Mage when mentioning "the fun jobs." Srs? Be sprout. Walk around questing in overworld. See overworld FATE. It's a boss FATE 12 minutes to clear FATE. I got this. Struggle to survive and run away. Realize this isn't meant for 1 player. Another sprout comes in and helps. Struggle to survive for 5 minutes. Boss is at 60% HP. Lone guy wearing all blue flies in. Immediately one-shots the boss. Refuses to elaborate. Flies away.
I agree, to me SB was the perfect balance of "you have multiple things to manage" and "the dps rotations are approachable to casual players." people will jack off over HW sch when it honestly just seems needlessly convoluted to me.
At this point I'd probably cry from joy simply from getting the DoT timer reduced back to 18 seconds cause at least then we'd get to press our second button slightly more often...
To answer your question what will happen when the next healer comes out: The next healer will be a pure healer and Astro will get Nocturnal Sect back, so we have 2 Pure, 2 Shield and 1 flex healer.
Summoner has a much better foundation than it used to have and I believe the direction they’ve taken is amazing. They just need to build on it a bit more is all.
@@ashleybricco4107 I disagree. They overly simplified the class to the point where it barely changes through the leveling experience, it was dumbed down to be easier than Red Mage. Am bitter because I did not hate Shadowbringers Summoner and now I feel I lost my favorite job.
@@PKDeviluke25 Yes, that’s why I said the foundation needs to be built on. But this direction of strategic planning instead of mashing tons of buttons is something I like. Many other dps jobs are about mashing tons of buttons. Not all have to be difficult in that way.
@@ek9750 I may be too optimistic, but I do hope they are simplifying the classes because they needed to make a foundation for future expansions. I feel like when people are planning things for the future some things in the present need to be cut down to make the way for future plans and though it may seem to be a bad thing in the present, may become great in the future. I heard that some SMNs are stating that SMN now has a better foundation in which the devs can build, though boring now. t could be wishful and hopeful thinking, however.
I'm going to be the crazy psychopath that says we should lean back towards the class blobbening of 1.0, where we could mix and match more in content. I don't want to FULLY go into that, but the pvp rework made me realize how much I really missed the old system. There's also the side benefit of making every dungeon/raid/trial in the game feel fresher if we have to actually fucking think about how we approach it. If every class has it's own strengths but can reasonably tackle content dungeon runs for example can be more than just wall pulling unga bunga. People organize all x role runs of alliance raids all the time but imagine if that can happen naturally? I also really want a reason to ACTUALLY use potions outside of the buffer options for a few seconds of burst in highest end content encounters. Give me a reason to engage with all of the content and give us reason to actually interact with each other in game for more than just clearing objective stuff. There's so much restriction in the class system which bleeds into not just what kinds of classes we can have in game but also things like encounter design. Obliterating those lines just turns people off but blurring them and letting people operate freely within those lines would open up a lot more freedom and accessibility from all sides.
I kinda just don't agree at all. Complicated healer dps rotations made doing the content infinitely more frustrating both to progress and recruit for. The pool of players was worse, and far smaller when looking to clear difficult content.
Years later, and this video suddenly popped in my mind. It's still so painfully accurate. And now we're seeing more healers quitting on Dawntrail because they're just so tired and done.
chair going for the classic "assume the devs did something for a dumb reason and then calling the dumb reason he made up dumb" school of argument. love it!
zrseale going for the classic "i blindly defend every decision the devs make with 0 critical thinking and don't care at all about the longevity of the game or quality of the content" school of argument. love it!
0:29 This is not true. In other MMO's, when you're not healing, you're replenishing your allies' resources (mana, etc) and managing/rotating your temporary buffs on them, while also debuffing enemies or dispelling their mechanics, and also CC'ing mobs that need to be CC'd. This is on top of having generally more incoming damage party-wide, even with skilled groups. Doing damage as a healer in MMO's has traditionally not been worth doing, or you are too preoccupied with actually healing and doing all these other things I mentioned instead. So I would say FFXIV is a bit of an outlier having such one-dimensional approach to this role.
@Captain Orsson Well, Tera Online WAS one such example. It was a Korean MMO that was praised for having one of the best combat systems in the whole genre, with many action-RPG design elements infused with traditional hotbar-based MMORPGs, which gave you a great level of control and complexity with rotations, while also requiring you to aim or charge your spells/skills, and evade or i-frame telegraphed and untelegraphed attacks/mechanics. Healers in Tera were truly multi-demensional supports by the end of the game's lifecycle with all their "Awakening" skills unlocked. Unfortunately, the game shut down a few years ago due to poor developer decisions, poor optimization, a massive crackdown on mods/3rd party software, and gradually becoming overly P2W with monetization. By contrast, WoW and FFXIV are built on a more casual and old-school hotbar tab-targeting philosophy which works okay, but is undeniably outdated by modern standards, and isn't as engaging or dynamic as it could be. And as sad as it is, I would argue that even healing in WoW is much better than in FFXIV.
As a healer main since Heavensward they need to have the dev team actually play a healer for a tier so that they can realize just how bad its become. To be honest if you die even in a savage its likely because the healer was so board out of our skulls that we fall asleep mid pull or because we are watching something on our second monitor to keep ourselves awake. At least when we had things like clerics stance and multiple dot rotations we had something to keep us engaged between raid wides.
I remember that they have a healer on the team but as she was getting better (clearing extremes and first tiers of savages), they had to replace her with a not as skilled person. If I remember correctly, they moved her to the savage/extreme testing group (I think there is a different team for ultimate testing), while the more casual group was used as the base bar for the alliance, dungeons, solo instances, etc (aka one really good person, one decent person, one average person, and one bad person). I think the team is trying to make FFXIV THE theme park MMO and to appeal to core FF fans, who avoided FFXIV because it was an MMO rather than a solo experience (hence why they were adding trusts to ARR, etc. and to future proof the game). Unfortunately, it is casualizing the game despite FFXIV's great points, which may result in FFXIV having the opposite problem WoW had (or is having), which is appeal too much to the hardcore players.
@@coolyeh1017 They don't want loser dweebs to play the same game for thousands of hours so they could get addicted and spend decades pumping money into the game? How dare they consider the wellbeing of their players, I want to destroy my life playing this game goddamn it.
I feel like I could say the same thing about tanks, except instead of only hitting one button it's only hitting three buttons and then maybe hitting a few ogcd's when you hit a point during a big pull or boss fight, all the while you're just hitting mitigations when needed.
I really hope Sage gets a DPS combo next expansion, would be cool if it impacted Kardia too. Maybe a basic 1-2-3 combo added into Dosis, with each combo making Kardia heal more. I was thinking it would be cool to have a skill that shoots out a small AOE heal from the tank/whoever has Kardia on, could incorporate that into a DPS skill as well.
I was hoping Sage would get a real combo and be a healer you really had to think about to optimize. Stronger than other healers but harder and requiring more thought to compensate. Instead we got SHB Scholar Remixed and there was nothing interesting going on. I miss 4.X healers
The hardest part about being a healer in FFXIV is staying awake. I started out as a healer main and gave up on healing once I started legit falling asleep while doing "expert" roulettes; it's ridiculous that the better you get at healing the more boring content becomes, the opposite of every other job.
I mean if you want to play a healer with a more complex rotation than the 1 button spam and dot upkeep, you can always play a Warrior.
Or a pld.
And now Dark Knight lol
Paladin literally has unlimited heals and they get it early. Why are they never mentioned?
@@IKIGAIofficial have you ever played Pally? Because they certainly do not have unlimited heals and they give up A LOT of damage if they use their magic potency buff on healing.
@@mobius4247 Req doesn't even buff Clemency anymore. It does make it instant, but it's the same potency as normal. So in a way they're even more punished than they used to be.
I feel the engagement level of healer is really high at the start of a new encounter when nobody has any idea what they're doing, you're vomiting spotheals left and right and trying to get another hardraise in there because the samurai died for the fourth consecutive time. Then the requirement of taking care of the party is greatly lowered once the party is adjusted to the mechanics and begins to perform at a much more consistent level, so you just become a glarebot at the end of the day. Basically the better the party gets the less you have to do
Pretty much this.
Yes this exactly. Here's hoping to bad parties to shine as healer. Also sometimes I'm like, why can't I dps so much as im used to in this dungeon. O wait sprout party. Ok lemme get you guys through this.
You can always public prog for that “I have no idea what the fuck is going on” vibe.
@@punishedbung4902 or be like me and have absolutely no friends so i have to pug everything
Is it a bad thing though? The better the party is, the easier your job becomes
4:19 "...simply begging for something to go wrong." This is literally me. The more people I see viewing cutscenes the more excited I get, especially in the harder alliance raids. I've grown to just love chaos. Collect those vulns dps, give me something to live for again.
Teared up at the Noct AST bit. Finally someone is saying it. What was the reason?? The changes you stated at the end would be amazing!
This green dps is living for the time between the seconds
there is no better way to tell me healer are badly designed than to tell me healer mains have fun when their party suck ass.
I always preferred Dinural Sect, but the loss of Nocturnal Sect still hurts. It was great to be flexable based on what the other healer was.
Last time I got a tank that viewed cutscene he timed his clemency before excog triggers and stayed away from my now 10yalm sacred soil. And the one before that was a WAR. Guess why healers get insta ques instead of tanks now.
@@TH3_DR3W Except you always went Diurnal no matter who your other healer was (unless it was another AST, then one of you poor bastards had to go Noct). The only thing Nocturnal Sect was good for was cheese strats like uptime dogs in E10S.
Chair has been trying so hard to convince us that he's not the same person as Lucy, then goes and uploads THIS
one's a demon, the other's evil. coincidence?
They have been not so secretly working together to mold ff14 to their own design. Overthrow our god Yoshi P and rule in his stead.
lol really? one is guy and other is girl, umm okay
@@kyotheman69 as a girl who can sound like both it is possible they are the same person
@@kyotheman69 someone has clearly never watched an anime before
Ironically, making lilies dps neutral actually made WHM bump up in playability significantly because it does the unthinkable and *checks notes* directly rewards the WHM for using its core class mechanic.
What's fucked is that vs a sage, i feel like even if i use lilies as movement tools, a sage still somehow heals more than me
@@TheCarash its all the regen sage has paired with kardia healing.
You should be able to spend a stack for another dot or something because spending lilies for no reason just to not over cap feels like shit.
@@amp448 nah just give them a shield or Regen
Basically, WHM needs a Kerachole
@@amp448 Consider WHM and SGE lucky their resource is not tied to damage. SCH's Energy Drain is a measly 100 potency, and yet, using your AF stacks to heal (When you have fairy abilities available and Recitation), feels like you're punished with DPS loss for using your core SCH system.
1:54 was so slick king, i noticed it all on my own, i didn't even need u to point it out to me. our resident mr. chair gets more witty with his editing every single day
oh my gosh wow i can't believe his editing has come so far, i never would have noticed it if not for your comment lucy.
Yeah that was slick af
Ofc you noticed, you made it chair.
Commenting on your own vids from an alt account? Kinda cringe.
simping as usual
Having mained SCH when I started the game in Stormblood, I fell in love with the job. A healer with 3 (4 if you count Shadowflare) DoTs was an archetype I enjoyed both in thematic and playstyle, sort of like a plague doctor. Logging on ShB patch day to see 1/3 of my hotbars grayed out to learn that the job (and every other healer) had been reduced to a one-button wonder almost killed my desire to play the game as a whole. I ended up shifting to DPS and carried on with a mountain of salt but I'll never forget what Yoshi-P took from me.
SCH MP cost of shield heals was so expensive at 4.0 launch, loving that at the start wow.
Astrologians are with you there my fellow healer.
and people try to convince me ShB was good
@@pat1509 narratively yea but sch & drk got butchered and hasnt recovered since
Should've been here around 3.55 pre-SB where they removed all of cross class skills like Aero, Blizzard II, etc. A lot of players were (and still are) complaining years before ShB.
As a healer main, the reason you brought up is exactly why I enjoy doing allience raid, every group is different, and sometimes everything will go south, and that's when I fell the most alive
Running Orbonne, 50-75% of the time it’s a shitshow.
HOWEVER, it does feel great you being the Alliance back from the being or even prevent a wipe WITHOUT using an LB3.
The phase change for Ultima.
But it’s a reason I enjoy Orbonne over Towers. In Orbonne, 3 bosses have “heal check” mechanics (Mustadio’s Analysis, TG Cid’s Cleansing Strike, and Ultima’s phase change). Agrias instead has multiple AoEs that she regularly casts.
Towers is pretty dull in comparison.
I remember during the ShB media tour, everyone brought up “hey, healers’ DPS kits have been fucking obliterated and seem really boring. Why’d you do that?” And the answer we were given was essentially “don’t worry, we’re gonna really increase the outgoing damage in all content. You’ll need all those extra heals.” Then all they did was make raidwides in leveling dungeons and normal raids hit 10% harder.
And that’s only for newer content, not the existing 80% of content that players still regularly do in roulettes. It also doesn’t account for average item levels increasing over time and solo combat still being way too simple.
The other answer, or rather players speculated (since getting answers for anything related to healers from Yoshi P has been nearly impossible) that the pruning of the kits was so that they could streamline healer kits and build the foundation for new interesting skills in the future.
Come Endwalker each healer got a single target "mitigation" tool which none of them really needed and...another heal with an exceptionally long CD. Or in SCH's case Expedient which is alright and quickly got nerfed.
And DoTs way more fucking deadly
@@eolendes6432 Didn't they also kick out their healer in their dungeon testing team for being too good because he started to do normal raids and extreme trials? Which kind of tells us what demographic healers are designed for.
then abyssos came out and it actually makes the healers have to worry about healing again
i still enjoy healing a lot, idk why but seeing hp bars get healed and throwing buffs around triggers the "yay im helping" part of the brain in ways no tanking or dpsing does.
except everyone would do perfectly fine if you werent there too. Sorry hun that the reality of the current state of the game :)
@@penultimania4295 I disagree. If people are still capable of wiping WITH healers, it means that, normally, they're necessary.
If your argument is that things can be run without them, then parties are not necessary either, because you can technically solo raids with warrior, etc.
"Challenge runs" where people take the classes to its extremes are not the standard and therefore don't reflect the state of the game.
Idk why you feel the need to bring others down, the reality of the game is that healers are needed :)
Could they use a rework to make their DPS rotation better? Absolutely! But that doesn't make them not needed.
For me that part of my brain gets triggered when I apply my Bard buffs and I don't even have to deal with the responsibilty of being a healer.
You enjoy a role that can be played by a blind chimp.
@@GoatOfWar all roles can be played by blind chimps, what is your point?
It's 2024. 7.0 removed dots because they're too much of a hassle to keep up. All heal buttons get condensed into one st and one aoe that heal, regen and shield at once. The latest healer job, a massive, giant hammer wielding scholar with really sick animations that, from promotional footage, seem to be dps focused, has no damaging abilities at all. The animations do look cool tho.
Dont forget, reworked dragoon no longer jumps at all, monk loses its last 2 positionals, and the only ability all 4 tanks have outside their 1-2-3 is rampart
Hell, positionals are just removed from the game entirely
It's in a rough spot when you feel like you're playing wrong by actually healing.
Well the whole system is a bit off ... while the upper 5% want all classes but the Whm to be fking ubercomplicated to make it less playable for the other 95% while flexing and memeing on them.
Most bored out people just hate the Idea that a game like ff14 is a MMORPG with a social focus rather than having a bs complicated system so that having a 2 class comm would thrive even more.
Most raiders I know do not enjoy raiding because of it being a challenge ... most raid for being a narcisstic bumhole and make it visible to everyone.
@@PiconPrimeKnight hurr durr raiders BAD
indeed "you used a GCD heal???? Your dps loss i guess oof" =____=
@@PiconPrimeKnight play a different videogame
@@PiconPrimeKnight Who the fuck are these raiders you're talking about. I have never met someone like that and almost exclusively spend my time in this game raiding.
As a dweeb that pays attention to lore. AST has Time magic and Geomancy. There's NO reason we don't have more DPS buttons.
Except not anymore cuz astros can't have nice things. Geomancy was what gave us our shield in the first place. How's that gonna work in the quest now
They actually changed the quest to exclude that you heal by rewinding time. Idr what they did now. But they don't mention time magic anymore just divinity.
@@AZodiacCancer The villain of the expansion uses it, and the dialogue afterwards talks about you learning time magic. Also Gravity is still around, which is time magic traditionally.
Basically when devs forget their own lore to fuck up for "logical reasons"
One idea, having some kind of combo in the dps rotation that, instead of being more damage, provides the healer with some other kind of buff. E.g. a single-spell cast speed increase for the next spell, or something that interacted with your healing in a minor way to make it more potent, to encourage you to dps to improve your healing.
And if they're concerned about button bloat, then maybe compress some of the situational abilities down. Heck do we still NEED physick or benefic or cure I? Or multiple different OGCD skills with long cooldowns that do basically the same thing?
They have done this before and a bunch of dps player would play healer and never heal.
Dps player not liking plying healer? Then FFXIV is doing healers the right way.
Make Res spells instant, but have them give the caster a 60s debuff that makes your rezzes take 7 seconds to cast. Bam. You may now safely remove Swiftcast from healers. Functionally everything is identical.
@@SableBez no one cares what people in unorganized groups do.
@@SableBez they do that literally right now, though, and they'll do that even when they inevitably make glare auto-cast dia every time, because healers being brainless means people without brains are going to play them
Since he mainly focused on Scholar, what about rolling the idea of making them a DoT class again in with the healing?
Maybe make SCH dots pulse a very minor amount of healing when they tick, and Fester could remove the DoT(s) for a decent aoe heal based on remaining time? That way you're encouraging DoT upkeep while still making it part of the healing role, and they don't need to outdamage other healer types to make the DoTs worth using?
As a SCH/SGE main, I find normal content to be extremely boring, but in high-end content, I find that babysitting the party IS the extra complexity.
I might only use one or two heals in normal content, but in high end, I'll cycle through most of my heals, and I'll usually make at least rough timelines to ensure appropriate heals are up at appropriate times. But when the party takes avoidable damage or doesn't mitigate (which is a LOT of pf parties), I not only need to immediately notice, but I need to make fast decisions on how many extra heals we need, what I can do while saving what heals I know will be required for future mechanics, AND also keeping up my dot and dps.
With that said, I'd really like at least one of my SCH dots back, I miss them D:
I feel the exact opposite. People in normal content might not be good with mechanics and their own class so a lot of mistakes can happen. Whenever I'm running high-end content though people know the mechanics, they've learned their own class long ago, high-end is just a dance that if someone fucks up everyone is punished or straight up wiped.
The only exception seems to be TEA, and that's just wishful thinking, thought the same about uwu and ucob before.
Even when parties take avoidable damage, in most fights the next damage don't happen for a while, resulting in you having way too much time to heal.
@@serahill Eh, I guess I’ve gotten lucky enough to run a lot of content recently with total newbies who don’t know what they’re doing even at endgame, so I have to work hard to keep ppl alive through their accumulated mistakes. I have a soft spot for newbies so I don’t mind babying these people & holding their hands through content. My logs look like trash but I don’t care bc I’m not trying to be competitive, just to have fun & clear content
@@Leroset It's funny that you replied today, my FC is organizing Rookie runs on current savage tier. We're gonna help people get into high-end content and get them over that first time anxiety.
Might be a bit more fun that running the same fights with loggers.
Of course it's boring, it has been made boring. It used to be fun when you had more to do than maintain one DoT and spam your only attack.
one thing i don't see enough people talking about when discussing pvp is that small step in the direction opposite from the all too common homogenization. Apparently it's actually fun when the classes have different strengths and weaknesses, and you actually have to keep in mind what their limit breaks do, who woulda thought
It also has more balance concerns than anything we've seen PvE related in recent years. Who would have thought developing both unique and balanced jobs is hard.
Yeah but PvP is stupidly unbalanced as it is right now, so I can foresee a rehomogenization very soon.
@@Verd254 thx. Now i am convinced of the depressing thought that all the dumbing down was done to give the dev team an easier job with balancing. Then following it by saying it was meant for the mentaly challenged.
... until you get to the point where WHM is ridiculously overtuned and you see 2 of them in every CC match
this is why we have job homogenization which - surprise, surprise - is actually a good thing
@@TheCrimsonFacker always has been. It's a scale where you have perfect balance with 0 variance on one side and turbulent cycles of op/up on the other, where classes can be 100% required in content or so suboptimal you'll need to suck a hundred dicks to get in. The former is already balanced by default, the latter is impossible to balance. The truth is, as always, somewhere in the middle
I would love a DPS combo on Sage, even if it's just a small one
dosis > swiftcast > raise [tank that didn't mit]
For some reason I expected sage to have one because their whole thing is the pew pew healer that heals from dpsing. I never looked at any of the overviews of the job before I picked it up and got disappointed.
They do have 4 damage buttons and a gap closer. Guess the dev team thought that was good enough....
Comparatively they have at least 100% more
Imagine just something simple like if they attack 4 times they get access to a special stronger attack, 4 of those and bam, finisher, its the simplest combo in the world but it'd be a mile more engaging!
FFXIV healing is just the logical conclusion of how raids are designed in modern MMOs.
When MMOs were a test of resources vs boss mechanics, healers mattered, they kept your raid alive, rotating healers to regenerate mana was something you had to do, using consumables to keep your mana topped up, ect.
Modern MMOs try to fake difficulty by replacing resource management with groundfire one shot dodging, meaning that you're simply waiting for the tanks or random raid damage to lower their health to 50% so you can cast a heal, while applying your DPS with a basic low effort rotation because having to focus on DPS AND heal bars means that you're making a role that is more complicated.
Its why I am in the firm position that every class in MMOs should have multiple roles. Your main role (The trinity) and an off role (CC, Kiting, offtank, lockdown, ect) you know, all those old roles that were replaced by infinite AOE threat that made every encounter a braindead groundfire dodging, when what we really need is more player engagement with the boss that isn't just playing a more and more complicated DDR song that is your rotation.
Old MMOs were braindead. They had no mechanics you had to think about nearly as much as Savages or Ultimates. They were just long slogs where your healers spammed their abilities and everyone just debuffed all bosses enough to ignore their damage. Everybody could just stand still and spam the same abilities for every fight . . . same as they do now, except you actually have to think about movement and mechanics going on. Everquest wishes it actually had any challenge content. The only challenge there is getting people together for it. Or FF XI where they just released stupidly over-statted bosses like AV to make artificial difficulty.
hmm, kind of like how the game was before all the casuals showed up and they dumbed it down.
@@chaptap8376 youve never played asherons call.
The chair villain arc was the thing we didnt deserve, and we didnt know we needed
Not sure if anyone deserve it or not, but I can say with confident that I don't need it.
It’s hard to take his endgame takes that are even close to decent seriously especially when he talks about raiding. Especially with his “villain arc” tone for things sounding more authoritative than he really is with his limited raid experience.
@@Exaltable except he does ultimates lmao
@@dragopy2410 have fun kissing square enix ass for them to ruin the game
I can't express enough how discouraging it is to play as a healer, feel like my role is important, accidentally die, and then watch the tank take out the boss on their own. It's so invalidating.
It's like, "Awe, you thought we actually needed you? That's cute." 😳🥺😭
Im a new player, just finished ARR propper. I really enjoy scholar as an idea, but playing the job in MSQ is indeed ridiculously boring. One damage button and 10 variants of healing. I finished all extreme trials while just mashing 1, its kinda sad :/
This made me switch from WHM while doing MSQ to BLM, using WHM only for fast queues in duty roullete.
Scholar has the benefit of being able to play Summoner in MSQ and playing Scholar in duty's. Though now that Summoner is also brain dead it isn't as helpful.
@@Irimu_ everyone keeps saying it's braindead but for me who gets easily overwhelmed by giant complex rotations Summoner was the perfect job for me leveling through msq these past months.
It is most certainly not brain dead. Easier than other dps, yes. But people saying it’s brain dead don’t play at 90 or don’t play hard content or if they do they probably parse like garbage.
@@Awsomeness103 I feel bad for old Summoners but I don't have anything against simple jobs. I just hope we get to keep some of the complexity in the game.
If you dislike just spamming 1 dps button then put your Glare not only on 1 but also on 2 and 3.
There - now you can press 1 2 3 on a healer.
Biggest brain in the room
You sir are a genius you saved healers in FFXIV
As a warrior main, i say healing is really fun.
God I want a healer equivalent of gunbreaker in terms of play style so damn bad. Like you just do a combo/rotation well enough and you get rewarded with a strong heal or something. That would be so sick.
Basically a battlemage something rpgs to scared to do
Kinda like heavy/light bowgun in monster hunter, but cooler
You cannot throw out the grenade that is this rotation 2:40 and walk away like nothing happened. It is beautiful and only gets better the more you look at it
would you like to meet our God and saviour Dragon Kick rotation? You spam dragon kick until you need to reapply twin snakes/demolish/bootshine, then spam it some more. Weave in your buffs and chakra on cd (ideally getting two demolishes within RoF but at this point who cares lmao). This is about a 100 dps loss as compared to optimal drift monk rotation.
@@pawsouth2897 I did this last night in the ally raid and cried when I was 2nd dps overall
As a AST main, I'm kind of grateful for my "1" button rotation. In practice though it's far from a 1 button DPS rotation. Have to manage cards, divination raid buff, star, your 3 seals and macrocosmos. Then you have a million oGCDs heals to juggle. Early game is kind of lame because you rely heavily on GCD healing but as you get to the end game, it's all about figuring out how to NOT cast GCDs and rely off oGCDs.
I've healed in a few other games like WoW (on monk and shaman), Aion (cleric), Lineage 2 (Bish) and SWTOR (Agent). They each have their charms but I've never felt so busy as I have on FFXIV's AST. It gets into some pretty 5head territory; especially with the game's emphasis on healer DPS.
I´m actually doing my transission from WHM to AST at the moment, because I heard, that you have alot more to do with that class.
WHM was my first class I played until the fnale of Endwalker and damn even though the new dungeons and raids were some new nervwrecking stuff, at the end of the day it was very boring to play.
So I hope AST can reignite the healing flame for me, otherwise I might just change to BRD or RDM.
@@Demagogines Yeah man go for it! That's the strongest part of FFXIV; freely switching classes :) Now if only they'd do something about the end game gearing system for people who play multiple classes regularly T_T
@@Demagogines I had the opposite experience. My first healer was AST and I've pretty much mastered it. At the end of the day I was very bored of it because I didn't feel like my buffs did anything. All they did was offset your basic low damage marginally with buffs but with 5x the weaving complexity.
I've recently made a new WHM character and recently hit 90 and it is hands down my favorite healer by far. All the instantaneous damage you could ask for, a healing kit that once you get afflatus misery and afflatus rapture makes incredibly good.
WHM sucks to 50, is mediocre until Rapture and Misery. Then it feels like an absolute powerhouse of rapid heals. Plenary indulgence finally works due to having afflatus rapture, and it makes casting Afflatus Misery so much more worth it.
Ultimately with AST I never felt like my buffs were worth a damn, just a very curated "under ideal optimal conditions with perfect card play your overall damage/output with buffs is...still less than every other healer." Sure, I have "more to do," but frankly they don't matter. It's more work for less effectiveness.
It's busywork without the reward. WHM as it is actually feels punchy and nothing can replace holy and assize spam. SGE's SFX are lame, though I have yet to play scholar. Unfortunately getting magical Jordans for your capstone level 90 ability is very disappointing if you ask me, even if it's tactically incredible.
@@whythefuckdowehavethisherenow WHM felt really good to me in 6.1 after the buffs. If I want to heal a duty that's probably the healer I would go with right now. It's also the only healer that was improved in 5.0, although this probably isn't saying much since it was the worst designed job in the game at the time. It's still a shame about Aero 3 though, of all the healers WHM certainly has the design space to handle a 2nd dot...
AST has too many buttons and feels like busywork like you said, and the cards are all the same now and it ruins the job fantasy for me, but I might give it another chance if the 6.2 changes are good. Although I would say it's more fun than WHM when you're stuck in a dungeon with a WAR that just doesn't need any healing since shuffling cards is still more fun than just standing there and spamming one button.
SCH is a dead job to me, I just don't like it anymore after 5.0. Unless they bring back the unique fairies and the plaguedoctor playstyle I could throw away the job stone and I wouldn't notice it.
SGE is... fine I guess?
@@whythefuckdowehavethisherenow wdym, AST has been highest rdps for a while now
It’s weird how scarce criticisms of FFXIV are in this community. Even the constructive kind.
Glad your current Arch is helping this
@@harryn7518 This comment is a bit old by now, but in my experience any time I see someone question why things are the way they are in XIV they get shouted at to go play another game if they don't like it. Balance issues are one thing, but questioning design choices is another.
I was so excited when Sage was announced because in my mind I thought it would be a hyper-complex healer with single-target and AoE heals directly proportionate to dealing damage, that when played correctly could dump massive damage naturally.
Sage is still my favorite healer now if only because sometimes getting to use a charge of Phlegma in between my single damage button spam gives me the happy chemical.
"Sage isnt complex, i upset"
Excuse me?
I really wished the next healer would be based on a ranged physical dps instead of a ranged magical dps like every other healer, having a more complicated dps rotation but removing cast time to compensate, so people don't complain about their dps
Melee healer
@@Gunthersby Surgeon job, sounds kinda fucking cool to be perfectly honest.
This should've been Sage to be honest, I expected it to be the Gubreaker of Healers (rotation wise)
omniknight from dota 2 with big hammer
@@Gunthersby Sorry, best we can do is Phlegma on sage
Being a healer overall is boring. I'd much prefer if those classes could affect the battlefield or enemies. Debuffs are a huge thing that modern MMOs forgot about. You don't deal damage, but you can debuff the crap outta enemies to make them much easier to handle, lower their damage, make them miss, CC them, debuff their damage resistance, all things that should be everywhere in healer kits, not just on maybe two skills of two classes.
Fuck yes! This!!! Solution to boring support role? Crowd control!
IMAGINE HOW COOL IT COULD BE TO GIVE THE ENEMY A CHANCE TO RANDOMLY MISS! Imagine how hype it would be during a super high end raid that your random debuff makes a raid wide just miss, it'd be so incredibly cool! (if slightly broken, but woe is me, a move that can influence a fight)
I really like this idea. Puts me in mind of Radiation defenders from CoH.
Probably couldn't do anything that extreme in FF14, but you could totally have like a reverse Astrologian, who focused on Vuln Up and Damage Down on enemies during their non-healing time.
funny enough this USED to be in the game. SCH used to blind enemies, eye for an eye existed, bard used to lower evasion. Just little things
@@koralionheart so basically "Flash" lol
Healer roles will always suffer from dichotomy of design: They can't feature complex rotations because they need to be able to react to circumstances (you can't design them with perfect players in mind) but to make them interesting relies on people actively making mistakes. You end up in a situation where you can have lots of "fun" (or busybodying) in low skill scenarios (Alliance Raids, PFs, farm parties), feel borderline useless and kinda boring in mid-high skill scenarios (Prog raiding with a skilled group, reclears, log runs) where you're just mashing your DPS button until the encounter design requests that you stop doing so, and (I imagine this is what Yoshi-P meant with "play Ultimates if you want Healer to be challenging") only trully "engaging" in those encounter designs where it is REQUIRED for you to heal a party to keep it alive.
I think just like you consider having to press many distinct buttons (and therefore dislike XIVCombos) "fun", I personally don't find it all that interesting, therefore I don't think Healers are "Not Fun" nor they lack complexity.
Personally, I find the resource management, reaction/prediction based gameplay, and accurate targeting to be the enjoyable and mostly unique aspect of the Healer Role, and that if you want more rotation complexity (but still be a "support" role), go play Red Mage or Summoner (now if only Squeenix would give us support heals that actually healed anything more than a pittance)
Note that this doesn't mean I wouldn't be open to changes to the healer role to be more specialized, but I do question how would you make this fit into the design of FFXIV. I think it could be made to work if GCD heals don't break DPS combos, and Healers not have a "2 minute clockwork rotation", as to not be afraid of drifting.
Those are in reality non problems in the current game thanks to charges and gauges coupled with how strong oGCD heal options are. My 2 cents here as someone with experience in healers up to ultimate would be:
-Whm: Add a 60s offensive lily action, would help build misery without overheal and woudn't get in the way of the healing as at best it would consume 1/3th of the lilies of a encounter, make thin air nourish the bood lily when used on a gcd heal and make every gcd build stacks/gauge to use on a stronger gcd attack (think a gcd shinten). If they make so healing gcds build more energy than dps gcds then whm could have gauge management that doesn't get in the way of healing (as you could bank uses in the form of excess of gauge), could reduce the glare spam in over 40% without drastically changing the identity of the job nor its playstyle
-Sch: GIB DOTS, for real dots are really noob friendly as delaying them is not that big of a loss vs a normal gcd not used and a job with high % of dot damage loses less when forced to switch a nuke for a gcd heal, change aetherflow so it doesnt penalize the dps when healing is used and instead reward the player for using this gauge. They could also add cds related to dots with charges like old fester or shadowflare.
-Sge: This one is interesting, they could create a cooldown (with charges) based offensive version of eukrasia that changes dosis and dyskrasia into a reaper like combo with 2 branches (dosis->dyskrasia or dyskrasia->dosis) with different effects, think 1 with big damage and the other with a damage buff like War that also gives addersting. Then add a 60/120s combo with addersting (like gnb's continuation combo) to spice things up, add a trait so every addersting action reduces phlegma cd and phlegma uses reduce the offensive eukrasia cd.
Since all of that is charged based it could be delayed at will, being gcd based allows the sge to keep the healing with its massive ogcd kit and thanks to the loop (Offensive Eukrasia gives addersting, addersting action lower the cd of phlegma, phlegma lowers the cd of Offensive Eukrasia...) the player could keep control of the speed of its rotation being able to accerlerate it when low healing is required and having a slower one when they have to heal (an extra dot in the form of eukrasia dyskrasia would be appreciated too)
-Ast: For this one I think an extra dot and more card management would be fine, instead of trying hard to make every card the same I think a fixed deck with cards that are stronger and weaker would be better. Let's say Ast has 6 cards in its deck (1 of each) divided into 3 ranged and 3 melee, give them tiers from 1 to 3 being tier 1 a weak 2% increase and tier 3 a 8-9%, with that every time Ast draws, the cards remaining in the deck would be reduced by 1, changing the % of getting a stronger one in the next draw, as such actions like redraw would be more impactful and new actions like discarding a card to draw other (reducing the number of cards in the deck) or discarding a bad card to improve the effect of the next card used could be implemented changing the ast mentality from "get seals and gib card" to micromanage its options to guarantee the maximum number of strong cards while getting the most out of their weak one be in the way of discarding them or powering up the strong ones.
Biggest drawback for this is that ast would need an action that opens more weaving windows which probably a cd reduction of lightspeed coupled with the dot could do.
I feel all of those would be much more interesting than current healer iterations without getting in the way of healing
@@SWKJaviK Also one thing about dots is they can have different durations so that players don't just say "Oh it's dot time now have to cast TWO gcds"
Lilybell should cost a lily, be a gcd, and feed the blood lily. Stylistically it just makes sense.
Sage should have a cooldown that puts a "kardia" on a target ENEMY causing their damaging spells to proc extra damage for a short duration.
AST 100% needs lightspeed with 2 charges unless weaving is getting less insane
No offense, but did you start playing in Shadowbringers? Every healer had more DPS buttons in the past and healing was in a better state than it is now. It's not some crazy change from how the "game is designed" and telling people who want this to return in some aspect to just play DPS jobs is insulting. Stormblood Scholar had DoTs it maintained while not stopping it from healing, and having 3 DoTs to upkeep was not super complex. It's not about "2 minute rotations!!" its about making our role more engaging in ALL levels of content. Even in TEA, an overwhelming majority of your casts will be your 1 DPS spell and 1 DoT, Ultimate doesn't offer a more engaging experience on healers and those who think it does clearly haven't done Ultimate. It's not about making healers challenging, and Yoshida's response wasn't addressing what the question was asking at all. We want healers to be engaging.
@@kidragora Nope, I started in Heavensward, and I played those healers. What I meant is the game has clearly shifted focus, you can even see it in the old content that was reworked where a lot more raidwides are casted by the bosses. I'm not saying it's impossible either, just that I personally don't think healers need dos buttons to be "fun", they are "the most fun" when things go sideways *and that is ok*. If you make Healers fun when they can DPS (because no healing is required) you'll encourage non-hesling healers, and even potential toxicity when they're "rudely interrupted" by that DPS who stood in orange juice. Or at least that is my hypothesis.
@@Meoiswa We're going to have to agree to disagree, since healers historically had a LOT more damage skills in the past and it was never an issue with people being toxic over having to actually heal instead of DPS. RIP Aero III.
"giving a little more to manage is not going to make them worse when they can already be close to rock bottom" is legendary and literally just true. villain arc of the century.
"If Healers arent engaging enough, just play Ultimate content." - Yoshi P.
hey look everyone another yoshi.p nut garggler!
@@zeening i am merely Quoting what the Game Director says. That doesn't mean in any regard that i share his views.
We had high skill ceilings for tanks and healers back in the day, but people whined and complained because playing a tank or healer was like playing a damage dealer with extra responsibilities. And who the fuck wants to be responsible for their own output AND the output of others?
I think the solution was to have more outgoing damage, so healers have to focus on actually healing rather than just expecting them to be DPS classes during the downtime.
WoW does a much better job in that area in my opinion because there's tons of outgoing damage constantly, and you have to be healing every second.
@@KyokujiFGC WoW also has more diverse healer playstyles though and most healers have more dps abilities and often stronger synergies with them in their healing toolkit compared to FF14. Like, Discipline Priest is ideally just doing full on healing through dps for most of the time, Monk has Fist Weaving and Paladin has the melee playstyle where you reduce holy shock cd and generate healing ressources through dpsing.
This did not age well..... Now all the healers quit because of healing checks in P5S-P8S XD
Preach! I've been shouting this from the rooftops for years. I miss my old Scholar with 5 DoTs and manual Embrace! Did you see the live letter recently where one of the most upvoted questions was about this very subject? Yoshi-P's response was that if you want healing to be fun go play Ultimates. Oh and their dungeon balance testing healer got too good so they had to replace him for someone worse, so dungeons will have even more lax healing requirements. YAY. Part of why I've fallen in love with the new PvP is just because they removed healing buttons and put an emphasis on support / damage. Sage is like 90% damage buttons. Thank Hydaelyn! It's simplistic but I'd love that kind of job diversity in PvE. As it stands I have to get my kicks by playing chicken with everyone's health while praying that someone fucks up so that I have an interesting problem to solve
I understand the concept of having Ultimate content be for more tryhards, but as someone who sits in the in-between, it sucks. I don't really care to dedicate months to a consistent schedule to clear savage/ultimate content with strangers. But I also feel like the normal content (outside of groups of players who are new and/or bad) is too easy for healers. It's hard though, because a group that is terrible is incredibly difficult to carry sometimes (broken underlevelled equipment, no damage mitigation, DPS not AOE-ing, standing in every mechanic). I think to make healing more interesting, they would have to have a higher level of entry period. Right now it feels like "are players competent and know the basics of their job? I spam my one attack button; did the players level skip and not even bother to learn anything about the game? my job is to try and carry them and if there is any oops, it is my fault". I'm used to a healer role being a babysitter of sorts and I really am okay carrying as long as people aren't jerks, but it feels bad that there doesn't seem to be a way to cater to helping competent players. AST has buffs, but the buffs feel so inconsequential in regular content (especially if that competent player isn't being optimal in rotation). I just want something to focus on in regular content that can elevate and make things a bit more interesting. I would have loved if Sage required being more optimal with DPS and getting healing in return for the level of optimization (or the inverse). It sort of works like that, but the numbers remain low to match the other healers. I would also love if healers did more damage, period. Beef up the numbers but tie them to doing a rotation properly. Idk. I don't negate that its a difficult quandary, some things are still needlessly tedious while others are needlessly simplified, but I'd just like them to try. More tools like Earthly Star would be lovely, if we are to DPS and heal, give us more decisions in how to do both efficiently. Again, I get the apprehension to add necessary healing to regular content, but they could make the kit more rewarding for optimal play.
Honestly the most fun I have as a healer is when playing with a tank who either does wall to wall pulls or doesn't know what he's doing. I play WHM and in those moments it actually becomes a fun class you have to think about. In that sense, I wouldn't mind if dungeon design was a little bit meaner with its mobs. I've said this before about bosses - basically every attack that a boss throws out is either a party-wide blast meant to be countered with AOE healing, or it's a dodgeable attack that'll kill you.
Honestly though? I'm not sure the boss design thing bothers me THAT much. Like, let's be real: the interesting part about ff14's bosses is doing the different mechanics. Sure, you might be doing your rotation, but at the end of the day that becomes pretty rote. Hell, the worst part of learning a new class is when you DON'T have the rotation burned into your brain. Maybe you get excited when you get to slam your proc'd OGCD button. Mostly the boss fights live and die by the boss AOE's. One button, 8 buttons, rotation size doesn't really matter to me.
i hated getting tanks who had 0 clue what to do in dungeons while levelling healer. You'd get some French Warrior who doesnt even know what bloodwhetting or equilibrium is, in the lv 85 dungeon. I'll let them die and leave the instance, before i have to spam all my cooldowns and not DPS at all because they want to put in 0 effort.
When will SE learn that bad players will never "get it"? Catering to them will singlehandedly destroy the game
no kidding, they literally talk about learning from wow but arguably the major thing that started the slide on wow was the massive pruning of every single remotely interesting ability, talents, any kind of choice at all, all got streamlined down to REEEEE THIS IS THE META GOTO ICYVEINS/NOXX OR GET KICKED. EVERY utility or flavor ability gone like eyes of the beast(let hunters control their pet for fun or scouting), eagle eye(let you look around at a distant point you could target), all the various warlock debuffs so it was only purely REEEEE DAMAGE! HAVING TO DEBUFF ENEMIES BASED ON WHAT RESISTANCES THEY HAVE IS TOO DIFFICULT FOR AVERAGE ANDYS! dumbed down the game massively, then at the same time some how for some reason mainly only focused on endgame.... dumbing the game down massively+focusing on hard end game stuff = bad dead game lol
It hasn't destroyed it yet
I love the ideas presented at the end especially for the SCH changes; I want that version of SCH in the game. I haven't played FFXIV since Shadowbringers so I was confused and disappointed when I learned in this video that Nocturnal Sect was removed... Healer boredom is definitely something I'm familiar with.
I think the last time I had fun playing Green DPS was playing SCH in Diamond EX since there was just enough group damage going out at a consistent rate to actually force occasional decision-making.
bless your villain arc, this shit encouraging me to get mad about things i'm allowed to dislike. everyone needs this
ngl, AST has so many ogcd heals that i just forget to use them(celestial intersection, celestial opposition, crown play & exaltation), but also half of them are designed for you to cast and forget them(earthly star, horoscope, macrocosmos, exaltation again). its...weird. not bad, but weird. i wouldnt mind even simple combos after malefic that could maybe eat my cards that dont have the astrosign i need at the time(the option to throw them away is still absurd). i also miss nocturnal sect. the versatility to be a shield healer when we already had regen was just...nice
you 'forget' to use them BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT NEEDED BECAUSE THIS GAMES DESIGN IS GARBAGE NOWADAYS.
Gunna say it... AST is the most unique healer.
The rng buffs and time based healing allows for constant management you just don't get with the other healers. It's a lot more complex to play AST because you have to keep cycling between all of your Ogcd's as well as your cards and dps tactics.
Hot take but noct sect and diu sect weren’t that much different in play style. So I do not give a shit they removed it.
I really wish healers had healing rotations that fed into bigger dps abilities. But boss design just doesn't support this at all, so it will remain my pipe dream.
Maybe if there were ogcd combos or class meter dps mechanics
Tbh, the only healer that has a healing rotation....somewhat is Scholar. The rest legit has one button to chonk heal at any given moment. I know Lustrate exists, but thats Aetherflow stacks being used and having to manage between cooldowns unless you gotta disapate...for some reason.
you mean like proccing SGE oxicon but into a RDM type combo, yea that would be sick af,
@@StealthMaster5k Yeah there's a TON you can do with it. I mostly come from playing Holy Paladin in recent wow expansions (lmao wow bad game).
But it's a really interesting approach, hpal is a melee healer, where they have a healing button and a damage button that they basically spam. Each of those buttons give a resource that can be spent on large heals or a little damage.
Best comparison was if broil gave you aetherflow, which you could then spend on heals or energy drain the same way. However WoW fight design swings way more towards constant damage you need to heal, so it almost all goes into healing.
But it's that sort of mixing of the two kits and back and forth that feels really good.
White Mage and Sage already have something like that with Misery and Toxicon, they just need to give the other healers something like that, and make it a little more involved
Glad to see another content creator point out how stupid and short-sighted the Regen/Barrier healer paradigm is. It's super aggravating that the healer role fundamentally fails at basic game design (something I pointed it out in my own healer video). When your game has a feature that rewards mastery with boredom, the concept needs to be scrapped and remade.
Good video as always that is refreshingly blunt with the very coddled playerbase.
Hot take: I was a healer main in SWTOR and Secret World (Old, not legends). And honestly, I hate healin in FF14. Here you have to calculate how much HP your party can safely have without causeing a wipe, because of no sustained dmg.
If I want to dps, then maybe I would play a DPS job. If I play a healer, I dunno I want to HEAL! In SWTOR I liked healing, because it was different in the aspect then most of the fight I look at party members keeping them afloat, it is different, maybe when they are good I dish out 1-2 attack and back to healing (Had to space it out otherwise the game punishes you)
Here I look at it, they are full. I blink twice don't look at it for a few milliseconds, and either the tank is at 5% hp or the whole party is. 3 OGCD later everything is ok back to spamming 1. I'm a tank main in ff14 and I can't blame when the healers are asleep during encounters. Healing aspect is actually most engaging in dungeons, and especially Tower of Zot and Holmsterswitch because mobs are kinda overtuned.
That is why it is bizarre for me how players defend this "healer is a green dps". It shouldn't be. I'd rather keep myself engaged with targetting party members and dodging aoe's through out the encounter than spamming 1 through out the encounter.
In the other MMO's even if the others play perfectly you are still busy, most of the time. Here if everybody plays perfectly you rarely heal.
There is a reason why there is no dedicated HoT healer in this game (I play AST and that as close as you can get to that.) You would keep those up on the tank, and your CO healer becomes unnecessary, if it's a shield healer, shit your entire party would be always max health.
Adding a couple buttons to healers won't really do anything. It would have to be changed fundamentally.
Healers already have to optimize more than some DPS jobs, looking at you RPR, but it doesn't even feel good/rewarding until 3/4th turns of savage tiers or ultimates.
If you don't enjoy optimizing healing for high end encounters, or don't want to do something mind-numbingly chill for daily content, then healing probably isn't for you.
- if they add a couple extra buttons it doesn't change anything because it would still be very simple. We need full interactive rotations. Like healing combos that boost dps potencies and vice versa, which would also require encounters to have more light amounts of damage
- if they make savage/ultimate content just spam damage constantly then you get WoW were healing is like 80-90% of an encounter and some classes don't do like any damage at all
Problem with optimizing healers, is that your reward for learning the fight and CD use is casting even more of your single target spell. Who would want to be rewarded with yet another cast of your nuke when unoptimized play is already festered with 70% casts of your nuke.
"Every job I touch turns to dust"
God.
Loved Astro, Bard, and Warrior when Stormblood came out.
4.2 killed Warrior for me. Loved Monk near the end of Stormblood. 5.0 killed it for me. 5.0 killed Astro for me. 5.0 killed Bard for me.
Mained Dancer in Shadowbringers. 6.0 killed it for me.
Quote is all too real, lmao
To each their own, but I've been playing since 2.0 and WAR and MNK are the best they've ever been imo. Especially after the last patch for Warrior.
warrior till 4.2, drk till 5.0, healer (mostly whm) for all of SHB, feel like im in the same boat, maybe us cursed individuals should just go main the 'popular' classes so our curse destroys the things other people like and then they'll realise what it's like to see the class they love suddenly change into some twisted abomination wearing its face and name
@@Lazyhandle Understandable! I still do enjoy Warrior, especially in Endwalker compared to Shadowbringers. I still thought Monk was okay in Shadowbringers, but I honestly have yet to level it 80-90 yet. I just had so much fun with the double Tornado Kick rotations it's hard to like it as much anymore. But I level everything anyways so I'll get to it soon enough
@@IrisSaiya you should give it a chance phantom Rush looks incredible and I love that insane number it produces. But I feel you, they did change the identity of Monk but I'm one of the people that prefer how it is now and the numbers it produces instead of pure rapid DPS. Obviously that's my opinion, but thank you!
Looking at it slightly differently healers being the role that has less of a dps rotation is honestly a good thing for a lot of people. I personally really enjoy having a easy to use rotation while focusing more on other factors (Party health and oGCD healing) to keep myself engaged. If someone wants a healer that presses a lot of buttons astro fits that pretty well atm as well, even if their "main damage" is still the dot and single button. The other issue that could come up with having a healer with a full rotation is the amount of buttons they have, because having the full rotation plus a full healing kit would be more than any current job. This is all assuming current boss design stays as is.
Astro is missing some quality of life adjustments, but I agree it's pretty close to reaching that threshold of DPS engagement (busyness? idk what term to use) that a lot of players are looking for.
Lord/lady card split is a good step forward for example but awkward since you generally are fishing for lord. If it was reworked to instead be a second set of cards for random DPS spells that could be cool
@@starseeker1829 lord and lady sucks literally the worst mechanic they could’ve brought back from stormblood except for auto attack ninki gain
FFXIV finally has popular youtubers that make a career of complaining about it constantly while still playing and loving the game, we’ve truly hit the big time.
5:08 is some harsh truth they need to realize. Re: DPS, what is insane to me is the healers have the exact same 1 button spam from level 4 to level 90. In any other role that would be absolutely unacceptable. Healers are "rewarded" by playing well with. . . boring gameplay.
Things I'd do to fix healers
In general
1. give them at least one damage rotation. Please, I don't like spamming the same button over and over again.
2.Have the lower level spells just upgrade to the better version. I'm not keeping Cure 1 on my hot bar when I get Cure 2
3. Make the classes distinct. I'll get into more detail
White mage could be a healer/buffer. The buffs the give are based on elements. Fire gives an attack boost, lightning raises crits, wind speeds up movement, and earth raises defense. The party can only have one of those buffs, but you should be cycling through them frequently. Maybe make the buffs short and back to back buffs become shorter to encourage cycling.
Scholars should be shields and debuffs. Give them multiple dots to maintain. The more you maintain them, the better they become. The healing fairy ( can't remember their names) helps maintain shields while the other can help maintain one dot. You could even have the dots slowly heal allies nearby.
Sage should be dps heal. Every hit should heal/shield the party. The bigger hits give better heals. Death by a thousand cuts essentially.
Astrologian could fill any of these rolls or all if they hate themselves. I'm not as knowledgeable for this class, so any suggestions for how that'll work would be cool. I assume the cards could do something with that.
Healers should have a tank level rotation. Obviously not combos since they're casters but on that level of complexity.
What's always bothered me is that everyone seems perfectly content with healers having so few damage buttons. If 85% of all tank's abilities were damage reducing cooldowns, there would be a RIOT, but for some reason they think its okay for healers. its infuriating.
The difference is boss is stripted, player isn't,
Boss will always use raid wide damage or tankbuster regardless your tank performance, and tank mitigation only use in said raid wide damage/tankbuster but not outside of those.
Player however, unless is trust, player you have in every boss/raid encounter will be DIFFERENT than the previous one. If player did boss mechanic correctly? No healing needed. If player failes to do boss mechanic? Ready your healz and ressez because you are in big trouble now.
Last but not least, are player in your next encounter gonna act as same as the player in your previous encounter? Nah
We only need 2 emergency heal; a Cure II analogue and a Medica analogue.
So just 2 more buttons than tanks have.
Weirdly enough I find managing my dots a lot harder on healers than any other job I‘ve played so far.
The Paladin dots can be ignored entirely if I stay on top of my rotation but pressing the same gcd for 15 times and know that you have to reaply a dot is a lot harder for me for some reason.
i guess you dont have the brain capacity to press 1 button every 30 sec. Congrats SE are designing this game for you.
that's because DPS and tank DoTs come up naturally in your rotation. Healers have no rotation. They just spam 1 button and then have to stop spamming it to reapply the DoT
2 years later and this video is still relevant 💀. Dawntrail is giving healers even more quirky healing abilities for probably nothing
Healing is overpowered in most content because it has to be. There are enough bad tanks in the game that don't use their mitigation, make stupid decisions like making the healer lose line of sight right before the healer finishes a heal cast, or doesn't dodge aoe because they think they can tank like they do in WoW where dodging aoe doesn't exist for them. It is tanks like these that will make you learn to appreciate the healing role for it's existence and teach you to get good at weaving heals in between each cast of Broil IV.
I definitely think XIV Combo should be an option, especially for controller users. There's very little skill expression in pressing 1 -> 2 -> 3 and it just takes up so much real estate on gamepad.
Healing is only fun with new content. Quickly gets old when people know mechs and stop making nearly as many mistakes.
Going from Stormblood to Casualbringers was painful as a main healer, they demolished my boy SCH (removed Miasma, Miasma2 and Shadowflare, heck they even removed Energy Drain for a bit, luckly they re-added it)
and they completely, utterly murdred AST, the old "Time Dilation / Celestial Opposition" astro was just amazing, it could have been a bit too powerful, but you had so many options and was just amazing, I have never touched it again since they destroyed it
Yes, all of this. I used to really enjoy playing healers now I stay far away. I don't want to smash one button. It's so weird they don't fix this. the better people get at scripted predictable content the less healing is needed so then what do you do? Spam your single target dps button. I'm still subbed for my house but im considering just ditching it
Pretty much. As a SCH main, that job ability preview for Endwalker straight up had me sad for weeks.
I want more dots and stat variances, etc.
My major problem since coming back. Yeah they simplified the whole game, yes it lets other people get into it more, but also take the reward away from hardcores.
Unfortunately the developers design healers according to groups' first clear, where mistakes will happen and the massive healing tool will come in handy, and healers are actually fun as hell when you have to make decisions on which healing tool to use in different fucked up situations. They don't give a shit about optimised runs, where healing is minimal and all you need to do is press Glare. Sadly the JP community generally supports the "Healing should just heal, if you want to dps go play DPS" idea, so I highly doubt this trend will ever change.
This idea would be pretty cool if people fucking up didn't result 80%+ of the time swiftcast res or 10%+ of the time wipe. Sure those few times where you have them and it changes the outcome is cool, but the game isn't even designed for healers carrying fuckups, either. It's a nothing design that caters to almost nobody, especially when you consider that having a few more DPS buttons wouldn't change that at all.
Of course they support the idea, because yes, when I play as a healer I want to HEAL not Spam Malefic! If I want to DPS I play a DPS. Everyone praises the "everybody DPS" part of the game desing when in SWTOR between heals I also had window to put 1-2 GCD when party was topped of and back to healing. Healing is a failure in this game because as the Renyci says, if the DPS does something wrong, he gets either almost dead, or actually dies and goes the rez. As a healer you are litereally only necessary if you or other people don't know the fight. Most of the time I just put the 2 Aspected HoT on Tank, and he doesn't need any GCD or OGCD heals.
@@ObviousHUN clearly you don't do savages, because Abyssos actually requires healers to heal and not fall asleep on their glare button. You also couldnt beat the DPS check for P8S on launch without healers doing serious DPS. SWTOR healers basically had nothing to do in most fights besides spamming heals, because they were badly designed
@@chaptap8376 Granted, I forgot to add savage there that's my bad. Spamming heals not so much. As I said: If I wanna dps, I would play a DPS class. If everybody is what is the point of the red icon? you press more buttons, that's it. I rather keep myself busy with healing because my brain does the goody-good chemicals when I see everybody topped off. Could make healers busy with cleansing dots, and what not.
I main AST. There's plenty I don't like about AST. But I do think that them having damage boosts to dole out to break up the malefic spam is a good idea in principle.
Because (and let me preface this by saying that yes, I DO dps as a healer), when I play a healer, it's because I want to support a party. I dps because I HAVE to, not because I WANT to, and making the healers more focused on dps is the opposite of fixing that particular problem. Except maybe Sage, since "dps to heal" is basically what they sold the class as. That one's fair.
Also, since I seem to have caught a case of evil from you, let me add this: I am SICK of people making videos smugly telling everyone, "a healer is ACSHUALLY just another dps". As if that itself isn't fucking stupid. If everyone started telling you you HAD to offheal with Vercure or Clemency, people who played those jobs would lose their shit because that is NOT why they picked them. But healers who don't WANT to dps? "Eat shit, that's just how it is."
Anyway: still a pretty good video, with some real good points.
I like a lot of your content and opinions about the game, Chair, but I really think that a lot of this talk is speaking through Rose-tinted glasses and generalizing by saying it's things everyone wants.
Like, I get it, playing healer can and is most of the times boring. I just finished getting Astro to 90 a couple of days ago because I was just lazy and now I only really hop on for Savage Prog with friends. I understand the complaint. Having only 1 dps button and 1 dot to keep up is pretty boring and mind numbing in some cases, but to that I ask why add more buttons for the sake of having more buttons instead of creating a more cohesive toolkit? Giving Scholar more dots is cool, just giving it a button from Summoner is not because it has no business being there. A friend of mine who played White Mage for Shadowbringers savage as well as playing pretty much everything at this point brings up a good idea.
"I want the kit to have cohesion. If SCH is to get DoT management they should gain more dot focused buttons. I dont want a Tri-disaster button on SCH because it makes Dots something you almost never interact with. Have sch able to spread dots using Deployment tactics, giving that button a purpose in dungeons. From there SCH can get 60s and 120s cooldowns to use in burst windows. 120s CD could detonate dots for their full potency and then have the SCH recast them. its 2min so they'd snapshot the reapply dots in buffs. 60s could be something like fester to do more damage the more dots they have. You can also give longer CD dots like Sonic break."
Neither of us believe in the idea of just giving more buttons to classes for the sake of having them.
When it comes down to it, I really think the whole bit about Nocturnal Sect is just Nostalgia to the point you literally just don't remember how no one ever pressed that button outside of two scenarios ever: You're progging savage with a White Mage, or there's another Astro and you have to turn off your healer equivalent of a tank stance so your regens don't overlap. It's the "illusion of free choice" meme in its rawest form. I played Astro since Shadowbringers and pretty much everyone I knew told me that it had no use since the heals were weak, and the shields were barely worth it especially with Neutral sect giving you the best of both worlds. It was cool in concept, but the actual application was so meddling that I feel it played a bigger part in its removal than wanting to have an even distribution between raw healing and shields.
The video has good points, I'm not denying that, but I feel a lot of it is just generalizations and half-baked ideas and ramblings on par with Lucy Pyre's Dark Knight video, which is no lie one of the worst videos I've seen in all the time I've spent playing and watching content around FFXIV.
It's a good video, but I really think you just needed more time to sit on these ideas, but I guess the "Villain arc" is making you impulsive.
Found this from Zepla's YT. Had to come by just to say... Amazing! Subscribed! Best healer video!
10:17 THERE ARE EVEN HEALERS WHO DON'T DO THE BARE MINIMUM HEALING.
With the new healer strike trying to go on and getting attention... Honesyly this whole thing is even more needed. Like this is every single thing in yhis video is needed, needs to be talked about and how good its points are.
I’m convinced that if it weren’t for the WoW exodus last year, 14’s population would be plummeting right now. They are dumbing down the jobs so much I actually don’t enjoy savage anymore and am considering unsubbing. And I only started raiding in Shadowbringers. I’ve played since 3.3 and I’ve literally never let my sub run out. That’s how much I hate these changes. Here’s all they need to do to fix it:
1. Give WHM, SCH, and AST their Stormblood rotations again. Give sage a gigabrain rotation and make it more like disc priest (your healing comes almost exclusively from dealing damage and the heal depends on the damage of the spell)
2. Put every cooldown on the timer it had last expac. To hell with 2 minute bursts, it’s boring. There’s nothing to think about. Party builds are dead.
3. De-homogenize tanks. Dark knight is discount warrior and it fucking sucks. There’s no excuse for every tank’s cooldowns to be literally identical.
3.5: Bring back the old tank stances. They don’t necessarily need to make aggro generation work like it did bc that tended to be a bit too harsh but at least make tanks choose between offense and defense.
“Oh but what about casual players?” Here’s the thing: CASUALS DONT CARE ABOUT THIS STUFF! I was an Uber casual for YEARS. I didn’t know what a rotation was until I’d been playing the game for three years. Literally none of these changes will raise the skill floor at all. All the devs have done is lower the skill ceiling so much that the only interesting thing about the combat in 14 left is just encounters. Even those are becoming trivial because tanks and healers have virtually nothing to worry about.
Day 1 Aglaia I played sage and it was insanely fun bc nobody knew what they were doing. Took like an hour and a half. I did it the following week on red mage, my main. It took 27 minutes. I think the only person who died fell off during Rhalgr. If the devs don’t seriously think about what they do to the jobs before/in 7.0 everyone who enjoys the gameplay will leave.
Edit: spelling
Completely agree dude. Tons of people who've been playing for a long time have been complaining on the official forums, and even newer players are feeling burn out with how awful healing design is. I still have some jobs I enjoy, but if things haven't changed by 7.0 I'm completely out and never coming back to the game.
every time i read someone say "actually there's a conspiracy theory why everyone thinks like i do secretly even though the numbers dont pan out", i remember the absolute conviction i saw people say at the end of the StB patch cycle that XIV was done and winding down.
anyway see you in 7.0
Healer since 3.0 and I miss Faust. The door mob in A1s. Halfway through, the healing intensity needed was so great that you couldn’t keep up without non stop double gcd heals. The enrage was just healers dropping the tank because it was actually that impossible. I want THAT! I want a “healing rotation” for high intensity burst damage happening in a fight, like E12s enrage, but imagine that just being a normal raid aoe. Or more zombie adds like the dragon heads in shinryu where you heal them to kill them. That is what i want. HPS big boy numbers and it to matter. I only feel alive in dungeons now when they have huge wall to walls I can test myself with. Fk a dps rotation! If i want complex damage rotations I can go play summoner. I want complex healing rotations…guess what…it already exists, but nobody knows the optimal healing rotation because nowhere ever do you need to optimize your hps. LET ME HEAL its like its the job I signed up for or something.
This is exactly it. I hate how everything in this game is diluted to DPS. I remember back when I first started and going through Coils, there was the AOS Sphere that would spam AOE damage and you’d have to chain cast Medica just to keep everyone alive. Fun stuff like that should be more common for healer-based mechanics.
@@CubicleJ0ckey this is how WoW does it. Game has constant raid damage and HPS checks
" If i want complex damage rotations I can go play summoner" lmao
As a healer main: how did you crawl into my head and voice literally every complaint I've ever had about the game?!
I kind of need a citation for the healer numbers. By my understanding from census numbers, there are significantly more players leveling and gearing their healers in the last two expansion than ARR/HW/SB. Even if you account the growth of the base, it's still solid improvement.
Which is what SE, at the end of the day, wants to see the most.
Healing should feel fun for majority of players, not balancing classes and roles around ~1% of players that play the game as a second job is a normal thing and I don't get why people are complaining.
The thing that always baffles me when people say they want fights that require more/random healing rather than getting more dps buttons is that making healing more engaging necessitates making it more difficult. So pretty much all you're accomplishing is raising the skill floor, making clearing fights harder for healers, but probably not much more engaging for experienced statics. So basically you're just making life worse for both parties. Even more casuals won't be able to meet the raised floor, and the floor won't be raised high enough that the hardcore will still likely be yawning. Like it or not, healer DPS was an elegant solution to this problem.
Dont tell them that, that's smart!
I didn't understand at first, but now I know. The chair is misshapen bc of the shear density of sarcasm forming its own gravitational mass. Thx for the vid. I have no opinion on the state of healers, I just enjoy laughing.
I had healers that couldn't keep up on healing with the normal mode of Zodiark last night. Both in level 90 gear.
My only thought was... 'How?'
semi unrelated but also a nightmare experience with a healer lol- i'll never ever forget the nightmarish run of SoS ex with this god awful healer(can't remember her class), this actual 2 brain cell woman WIPED US FOR FOUR AND A HALF HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FOUR AND A HALF OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on the METEORS THAT YOU SIMPLY STACK FOR AT THE BEGINNING..... FOR FOUR AND A HALF HOURS!!!!!! i was main tanking she was of course my partnet, i was like dude DO NOT FREAKING MOVE I WILL COME TO YOU!!!! she would stand there, i'd stack, she'd run to where i was... EVERY SINGLE TIME FOR FOUR AND A HALF HOURS AS EVERYONE WAS TELLING HER TO STOP MOVING..... it's insane how bad some people are
I am sorry for your lost.
As someone who 'mains' healing. It really isn't that hard. It's mostly, positioning, stay alive, and keep others alive.
Listening to others is a skill that is very helpful in the game. And paying attention and learning from mistakes.
My problem with this is that it doesn’t answer the question of why there needs to be a healer role if all we want to do is make it easier for them to damage, or more interesting to damage.
As a healer myself, my issue is that my healing kit is so rarely utilized. I mean, I make it a point to do a Recitation Succor in normal raids just to use it. Or Deployment Tactics. I can even live with Biolysis, Broil, and AoW as damage skills, what I want to do is have situations that make crit’ing an Aldo and then deploying the shield be the preferable response to a mechanic.
Failing that, healers should get more support options. Chain Stratagem is a good example. Like old AST, healers should be taking up support tasks as well. Make it so my WHM cohealer in the static are using our mitigations to be successful. Make it so we are consciously buffing teammates as required. I’d be fine with Broil on repeat if I felt like I was using GCDs to support the team in other ways, too.
I don't get how everyone thinks healing is too easy. I've consistently caused wipes because I just wasn't fast enough at healing. It's gotten so bad that at this point I NEED a friend I can talk to in voice chat as a tank, otherwise I'm never ever touching a healing class.
After watching the video, I guess I'm the type of player that's the problem for you people.
"This game is also notorious for high-end healers that drop their whole party who fucked up a mechanic when they could have just lived through it with an extra heal."
.. wait, what?
As a healer main since 2007 (from WoW) this makes zero sense to me. I have seen the mentality a bit in-game too and I just do not understand it. Then these players usually end up asking me how I healed through [bad situation] and I always tell them "I just, healed."
Don't hold a grudge about it, just do your job and heal. Healers who fail to heal and let players die are bad healers.
And yes, you can clear high-end content and still be a bad player. It happens quite often.
Could be interesting to have healing spells with a duality to them? Heals if targeting an ally, does some kind of damage and combo trigger if cast on an enemy?
That also means there could be some interaction between the two, getting to a certain part of the combo tree, and changing target to do bonus damage or healing with an additional effect.
This way you can make it as interesting as you want. Focus on healing if you need to, but you can effortlessly transition into a DPS rotation when healing isn't necessary. No button bloat, just...uh... tooltip bloat
Wow actually did that just now with the Evoker, their standart filler spell is both a heal and a dps cast. You can say what you want about the game, at least they give some fucks about designing healing classes...and tanks.
Stop making so much sense.
As someone who came from WoW and played healers, I did notice that very "braindead" playstyle and I have only played Scholar. I literally spam Ruin and and heal with 3 buttons essentially. WoW healing was fairly exciting because the fights had impact on the party so there was always something to heal. And if not then the your dps buttons were complex too. I'm thinking of picking up Astro later because that seems like the most complex of all the healers.
as a SCH main, I was super happy with the changes to SMN....because it filled me with the innocent hope that they were opening the door for SCH to become the DOT class again, and give me back my bane = .=. dot management was what drew me to SCH in the first place. maybe someday....
See this is why I play astrologian. I think it completely fixes the problem you are talking about by being a differfent take on healing and fitting better into the "proactive" healing playstyle FF14 seems to want to promote.
Yes, it has a simple DPS rotation but quite frankly if it was any harder I'd cry. But the current RNG on the cards in addition to the fact that many abilities are best used when you can anticipate and use them at the best moment makes it more fun. You kinda get to play a little puppet master game with everyone's HP bars - enemies included. You can heal strategically, instead of healing randomly when you see an HP bar drop. For example, some bosses have attacks that hit everyone and hit no matter what, so you can set up earthly star 10 seconds prior, and pop collective unconscious right before the damage hits, then recast earthly star. Mitigating the damage, healing everyone to full health, and dealing big damage. You also manage buffing yourself and party members to then give yourself more buffs to deal more damage. The slightly "busy" card system makes up for the "simple" damage rotation, because you have to throw in your card and heals off cool down, or strategically place them ahead of time.
I guess if you are one of the people that connects with this video, maybe try astro out? I think it solves a lot of the issues addressed in unique way.
Hell yes villain arc continues
I was gonna main a healer for my first FFXIV class. But now, i don't know.
Why do people say Astrologian is hard, then?
“Begging for something to to wrong” Is me!!! I love playing healer, but eagerly await a near-wipe. So boring otherwise.
lol, he crossed out Blue Mage when mentioning "the fun jobs." Srs?
Be sprout.
Walk around questing in overworld.
See overworld FATE.
It's a boss FATE
12 minutes to clear FATE.
I got this.
Struggle to survive and run away.
Realize this isn't meant for 1 player.
Another sprout comes in and helps.
Struggle to survive for 5 minutes.
Boss is at 60% HP.
Lone guy wearing all blue flies in.
Immediately one-shots the boss.
Refuses to elaborate.
Flies away.
Healers were at their peak in Stormblood, change my mind
*Heavensward
ARR*
I agree, to me SB was the perfect balance of "you have multiple things to manage" and "the dps rotations are approachable to casual players." people will jack off over HW sch when it honestly just seems needlessly convoluted to me.
*burning crusade
@@loganagain4942 LMAO
At this point I'd probably cry from joy simply from getting the DoT timer reduced back to 18 seconds cause at least then we'd get to press our second button slightly more often...
To answer your question what will happen when the next healer comes out:
The next healer will be a pure healer and Astro will get Nocturnal Sect back, so we have 2 Pure, 2 Shield and 1 flex healer.
There's also the rather slim possibility that they are going to introduce another "type" of healer
please no, noct should stay in the grave where it belongs
You misunderstand they won’t add a new healer in the next 5 years minimum
I'm not an Astrologian main however I was pissed off when Nocturnal Sect was removed.
Seeing what they did to Summoner does not give me great hope for the future of job design in this game getting any better.
Yea just look at what they did to samurai this patch.. Dragoon and astrologian are next and I am very worried
Summoner has a much better foundation than it used to have and I believe the direction they’ve taken is amazing. They just need to build on it a bit more is all.
@@ashleybricco4107 I disagree. They overly simplified the class to the point where it barely changes through the leveling experience, it was dumbed down to be easier than Red Mage. Am bitter because I did not hate Shadowbringers Summoner and now I feel I lost my favorite job.
@@PKDeviluke25 Yes, that’s why I said the foundation needs to be built on. But this direction of strategic planning instead of mashing tons of buttons is something I like. Many other dps jobs are about mashing tons of buttons. Not all have to be difficult in that way.
@@ek9750 I may be too optimistic, but I do hope they are simplifying the classes because they needed to make a foundation for future expansions. I feel like when people are planning things for the future some things in the present need to be cut down to make the way for future plans and though it may seem to be a bad thing in the present, may become great in the future.
I heard that some SMNs are stating that SMN now has a better foundation in which the devs can build, though boring now. t could be wishful and hopeful thinking, however.
I'm going to be the crazy psychopath that says we should lean back towards the class blobbening of 1.0, where we could mix and match more in content. I don't want to FULLY go into that, but the pvp rework made me realize how much I really missed the old system.
There's also the side benefit of making every dungeon/raid/trial in the game feel fresher if we have to actually fucking think about how we approach it. If every class has it's own strengths but can reasonably tackle content dungeon runs for example can be more than just wall pulling unga bunga. People organize all x role runs of alliance raids all the time but imagine if that can happen naturally?
I also really want a reason to ACTUALLY use potions outside of the buffer options for a few seconds of burst in highest end content encounters. Give me a reason to engage with all of the content and give us reason to actually interact with each other in game for more than just clearing objective stuff.
There's so much restriction in the class system which bleeds into not just what kinds of classes we can have in game but also things like encounter design. Obliterating those lines just turns people off but blurring them and letting people operate freely within those lines would open up a lot more freedom and accessibility from all sides.
I kinda just don't agree at all. Complicated healer dps rotations made doing the content infinitely more frustrating both to progress and recruit for. The pool of players was worse, and far smaller when looking to clear difficult content.
Years later, and this video suddenly popped in my mind. It's still so painfully accurate.
And now we're seeing more healers quitting on Dawntrail because they're just so tired and done.
chair going for the classic "assume the devs did something for a dumb reason and then calling the dumb reason he made up dumb" school of argument. love it!
zrseale going for the classic "i blindly defend every decision the devs make with 0 critical thinking and don't care at all about the longevity of the game or quality of the content" school of argument. love it!
0:29 This is not true.
In other MMO's, when you're not healing, you're replenishing your allies' resources (mana, etc) and managing/rotating your temporary buffs on them, while also debuffing enemies or dispelling their mechanics, and also CC'ing mobs that need to be CC'd. This is on top of having generally more incoming damage party-wide, even with skilled groups.
Doing damage as a healer in MMO's has traditionally not been worth doing, or you are too preoccupied with actually healing and doing all these other things I mentioned instead.
So I would say FFXIV is a bit of an outlier having such one-dimensional approach to this role.
@Captain Orsson Well, Tera Online WAS one such example. It was a Korean MMO that was praised for having one of the best combat systems in the whole genre, with many action-RPG design elements infused with traditional hotbar-based MMORPGs, which gave you a great level of control and complexity with rotations, while also requiring you to aim or charge your spells/skills, and evade or i-frame telegraphed and untelegraphed attacks/mechanics. Healers in Tera were truly multi-demensional supports by the end of the game's lifecycle with all their "Awakening" skills unlocked.
Unfortunately, the game shut down a few years ago due to poor developer decisions, poor optimization, a massive crackdown on mods/3rd party software, and gradually becoming overly P2W with monetization.
By contrast, WoW and FFXIV are built on a more casual and old-school hotbar tab-targeting philosophy which works okay, but is undeniably outdated by modern standards, and isn't as engaging or dynamic as it could be. And as sad as it is, I would argue that even healing in WoW is much better than in FFXIV.
As a healer main since Heavensward they need to have the dev team actually play a healer for a tier so that they can realize just how bad its become. To be honest if you die even in a savage its likely because the healer was so board out of our skulls that we fall asleep mid pull or because we are watching something on our second monitor to keep ourselves awake. At least when we had things like clerics stance and multiple dot rotations we had something to keep us engaged between raid wides.
I remember that they have a healer on the team but as she was getting better (clearing extremes and first tiers of savages), they had to replace her with a not as skilled person. If I remember correctly, they moved her to the savage/extreme testing group (I think there is a different team for ultimate testing), while the more casual group was used as the base bar for the alliance, dungeons, solo instances, etc (aka one really good person, one decent person, one average person, and one bad person). I think the team is trying to make FFXIV THE theme park MMO and to appeal to core FF fans, who avoided FFXIV because it was an MMO rather than a solo experience (hence why they were adding trusts to ARR, etc. and to future proof the game). Unfortunately, it is casualizing the game despite FFXIV's great points, which may result in FFXIV having the opposite problem WoW had (or is having), which is appeal too much to the hardcore players.
@@coolyeh1017 They don't want loser dweebs to play the same game for thousands of hours so they could get addicted and spend decades pumping money into the game? How dare they consider the wellbeing of their players, I want to destroy my life playing this game goddamn it.
I feel like I could say the same thing about tanks, except instead of only hitting one button it's only hitting three buttons and then maybe hitting a few ogcd's when you hit a point during a big pull or boss fight, all the while you're just hitting mitigations when needed.
I really hope Sage gets a DPS combo next expansion, would be cool if it impacted Kardia too. Maybe a basic 1-2-3 combo added into Dosis, with each combo making Kardia heal more. I was thinking it would be cool to have a skill that shoots out a small AOE heal from the tank/whoever has Kardia on, could incorporate that into a DPS skill as well.
I was hoping Sage would get a real combo and be a healer you really had to think about to optimize. Stronger than other healers but harder and requiring more thought to compensate. Instead we got SHB Scholar Remixed and there was nothing interesting going on. I miss 4.X healers
I miss the cards on AST, was funny to speed up the MNK GCD of my static and make his clipping experience a little bit of a nightmare.
The hardest part about being a healer in FFXIV is staying awake. I started out as a healer main and gave up on healing once I started legit falling asleep while doing "expert" roulettes; it's ridiculous that the better you get at healing the more boring content becomes, the opposite of every other job.
Its a dungeon.... Its boring for everyone.
@@88calistar Sadly... Criterion dungeons got me on the hopium tho