FFXIV Is Hurting Its Veteran Players (and here's why)
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
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Do you know how elated I was when I realized I could squeeze a third Fell Cleave into a Berserk window during Heavensward? Do you know how cool I thought it was that you could extend the duration of Miasma 2 using Contagion, even though Miasma 2 wasn't in Tri Disaster and didn't affect Fester damage? Little things like that. I miss those feelings
In the three hour Tim Rogers review that is Misshapen Chair's "villain arc" I'd say that this is "The Point" segment of the video
I wept for Kaiten, but i could never imagine how wrong it feels to have tenka goken being made into a circle.
The Kaiten removal thing really overshadowed the other ways the Job got messed with. Sure I miss Kaiten, but I hate having to spam Shinten so much more. It's clunky and isn't at all how the move was designed to be used. It's like they *forgot* Kenki exists when they were removing a spender.
@@yanipheonu fuck, are we going back to shinten spam meta? That’s the worst part of 4.0 SAM
Sch mains have been asking SE to do something with fairy gauge. You know what they did? They removed one of the two gauge spending abilities we have. Now my fairy is gauge is capped for the most part.
The animation even looks sloppy - they made it a circle but the animation doesn't *suggest* it would be a circle when using it. Your body doesn't spin it just... swings forward and a circle goes around your feet. It's lazy.
Even worse is tenka is a loss on 2 now. They really did sam dirty
Man the Kaiten Removal really sent chair to a really dark place
I wouldn't blame him. I'm still on copium about it.
Because the SAM mains know and understand what it added to the job on a moment to moment basis, they understand how hollow it feels to not have that one little skill that carried more weight than the braindead 'lol get over it' idiots ever realized.
Rightfully so. The change is dogshit. I kept kaiten on my screen as a reminder of what they took from us.
I agree with him though. I decided to pick up sam for this savage tier, and after this change it just feels like donkey. I still do the weaving in and out in dungeons or maps to line up my AOEs. It was fun to do that. Why was it taken away from me? I don't get it.
Some modder ported Chitens animation to Minds Eye and ive been popping Minds before Iaji everytime, my Kaiten is not lost
The samurai changes piss me off cuz imo, samurai was one of if not THE best designed job in the game in SB and SHB. Everything felt super satisfying and engaging and getting massive numbers on midare was always a guaranteed dopamine rush. Then endwalker comes along and it took away Seigan, which made me sad since Seigan added to the kenki management AND made third eye satisfying, but I lived with it cuz we got meikyo/tsubame charges and ogi namikiri... fine. I'll live with it. At least we still had kaiten and big numbers...
Then 6.1 takes all of that away. I still enjoy samurai cuz I'm a big weeb but it feels like a straight downgrade. NONE of the changes were wanted or necessary. After our buffs shortly following the launch, I thought samurai was in a good spot and they coulda left it alone for the rest of the expansion, but they decided to screw everything up for bs reasons. Genuinely such a garbage change that makes me legitimately wonder if any of them actually play samurai.
They'll remove something so integral to the feel of a job like kaiten, but leave freecure in the game.
The reasons they changed Kaiten and the autocrit thing was to smooth out variance (which crit kaiten vs non-crit non-kaiten Iajutsu did in fact have huge variance, even crit vs non-crit kaiten iajutsu had massive variance because of how high the damage was). The reasons they stated were in fact real things, and people misunderstand the action bloat thing. It is not button bloat that they were reducing, but double-weaving/weaving requirements via actions that have no meaningful gameplay.
All of this is extremely stupid for them to do, but their reasoning is not bs. It's a garbage change, but it isn't for bs reasons.
Trinimmortal guy?
@@TheLordMagmar one hundred percent it's a stupid reason. It is the prime example of pure bullshit.
"We want to design sam and expand it more but Kaiten restricts some of that for 7.0" THEN WAIT FOR THE NEXT EXPANSION. You don't tear something out and say "we'll rework the rest to be more fun and coherent in a couple of years..." that's fucking stupid. And it's fucking lazy. Just wait until the next expansion. All you did was leave a gaping hole in a job that had great design.
"It's difficult to balance around the crit stat and we saw huge variance."
Who... gives... a flying fuck. Balance that shit in 7.0 when you're redesigning some things. Again. WAIT UNTIL 7.0 DON'T FUCK UP SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE EXPANSION. And fuck off with the "crit variance." That's the point of crit rng. It's not anybody's fault that someone didn't score a crit. And even if you're so worried about the crit... Just make Kaiten boost potency and add in crit and adjust the potency of the iajutsu. Fuck me man, you don't even need to remove Kaiten. Just change what it does and adjust potency numbers to compensate.
None of this shit makes sense. It's stupid. It's lazy. It's pathetic.
The changes are straight up antithetical to the Job as it played for years (powering up your biggest moves for max damage), and there seems to have been little attention paid to how such a major change would mess with Kenki management and spamming Shinten 🤢. They didn't even check the synergy with other party members Crit buffs apparently.
How is anyone looking at a rotation where it's just "weave in a shitload of Shinten" and saying "yes this is how Samurai should play, the same exact stabbing animation on repeat between GCDs, this is fine"
Was this rushed? Did someone just forget to check these things? It just raises too many questions.
@@TheLordMagmar i honestly don't see this kind of damage variance as an issue. it's just the nature of a job with few high damaging abilities. take dancer or mch. should they always crit standard/technical step and drill/air anchor? to me, this kind of drastic change to address that issue is tone deaf. and they didn't even affect the action bloat with these changes.
I almost hated the Kaiten removal as much as I hated the removal of Dragoon Blue Aura, and that's a lot. Removing class identity for no reason.
Just like I miss the Monk's greased lightning rings, they're coming for all our auras!! Watch out WAR and DRK, you're probably next!!
To this day I'm still sad about Bard's procs no longer being linked to the DOTs. It rewarded keeping them up, especially on multiple targets, where you'd go absolutely nuts.
I'm still sad about Bard's pocs not being linked to dot _crits._ It rewarded knowing when to clip them early and felt substantially better than even ShB bard
@Gud Phrog It was mainly multi-target situations where I really missed my dot procs. And now we also never get double procs anymore. Idk, to me it just doesn't feel as good anymore 🤷🏻♂️
@ As an ex-fire mage main that played since Vanilla: The crits were the best thing! Biggest numbers and biggest raid damage by miles (until they made Warlock more viable in TBC onwards and slowly dumbed it down too much - and yet, it was 1st or 2nd when it came to that)
It worked in wow because it used a different damage system entirely
@Gud Phrog In dungeons is where you got to become a machine gun bard, who cares if you have to throw dots up for a few seconds to unlock literal godlike aoe dps? Also who cares if it forces them into max crit builds? Build variety in this game is a meme, if it isn't max crit, you just have another BiS. What actual gameplay changes come from them not having to max crit? You slot some DH materia now? Why does this matter? If anything you LOSE flavor from them not being an all crit focus class.
The job is still cool, but it lost nearly a decade of flavor, for what? What identity was gained for this loss of identity? It is now more static and less reactive. It's DoTs now feel completely tacked on. They still dont have the dot spreader. They finally got BL stacks after they took away the entire point for BL stacks. They took away intuition/math based 2 stack PP, BL decision making, several of our more nuanced support abilities most notably Foes, a literal core mechanic to our class which was dot procs. For what? For the exact people who are getting ranted about in this video? People who think core parts of the class are "annoying"? The class is a glorified archer now lmao. 1 song is literally just a GCD decrease and another main song is a shadow of what it used to be, dots don't interact with anything, support role pulled back (almost entirely to make Dancer a thing, same thing they just did for Reaper, remove stuff from other classes to make room for their new fancy class).
We could have everything we have now without sacrificing the class identity and flavor that we've done the last two expansions. We have literally turned from a reactive class into a solvable, mathematically rigid class just like everyone else. For people who will never do content where it is even remotely necessary. All dungeon dot "issues" for casuals could have been solved with a conditional dot spreader. Everything else is literally just a loss to make the job more braindead.
@Gud Phrog This is revisionist history lmao. Bard was cracked in Stormblood, literally one of the best classes in the game. Bard fucking demolished every other ranged class in SB due to sheer utility, it was literally an instant lock along with NIN for an ideal party comp. LITERALLY every high end team in SB had a BRD. Mage vs Ranged was such a discussed topic that I genuinely believe you didn't play high end at all in SB and only joined in ShB, when they got kneecapped to make way for Dancer.
I don't know why you just outed yourself like this. You can literally look all of this up on FFLogs RIGHT NOW lmao.
Also the entire fucking point of BRD is that it's a flowing, reactive class, it doesn't "build" toward anything because it's different from the other classes and is always doing something? It had constant decision making at higher level play due to optimizing procs, potential procs more importantly, crit buff optimization, and ogcd sequencing. It has never "built" toward anything until Shadowbringers added the wet noodle that is Apex, and EW finally added something with some semblance of nuance in Blast Arrow. You literally did not play Bard before ShB and have no idea what you're talking about lmfao.
You are either trolling or another one of those people that took BRD casually into dungeons or alliance raids or some shit and didn't like it, but are roleplaying someone who actually knew how to play the class and played it regularly, thinking they have some sort of logical opinion about the class. Levelled it, ran some roulettes and an EX and think that qualifies you to have an opinion on the class for some reason. Legitimately one of the people this video is talking about, fuck off and go ruin other classes with these cro-magnon takes.
As a person who is satisfied with being "good enough" that has no intention of mastering a class beyond my own comfort level and no intention of touching higher end content, I have a clear sense of what content is "for me" and what isn't. I have no business in an ultimate or even in most extremes because my personal sense of what "feels good" and what would push me to a point where a class feels more like work than play creates a ceiling for me. No, the devs should not tailor content to be for everyone, nor should they alter jobs just to make them potato friendly.
People just have to accept that unless you, the player, are going to go above and beyond, you have to accept that not everything is going to work for you. Job wise, I think of Ninja. The way the job handles, it can be very labor intensive and cumbersome to the masses, thus you don't see as many of them as other jobs running around. That doesn't mean that they need to dumb it down so more normies can handle it. It's turned itself into its own niche and the people that do play it, and well, adore the job. They don't love it because of what it isn't or what it theoretically could be, they love it because of what it is. It really is a matter of knowing your place and that place isn't everywhere you feel like being.
true!
The only problem with this argument is essentially you’re saying there’s no room for improvement on the jobs. Change is necessary, just not in the way that it’s been going.
The change that Ninja needs is a netcode fix.
@@maxmustermann3938 I would love to see that happening, Job changes: NETCODE is no longer trash :D one can only dream our indie devs can do it :')
@@skryonix357 What constitutes improvement is often subjective. According to the devs, the kaiten removal was an improvement. I'm certainly not saying that nothing should be changed ever, but the reasons should never be someone's idea of accessibility.
i got to say i like your content for how real it is, i love the ffxiv community but i feel like a lot of people ignore these concepts and its refreshing to hear someone else say it.
One thing I wish we had more of is content that sits somewhere between braindead easy and ultimate difficulty. Rather than having curious player have to jump into a whole new way to play the game, have content that serves a transition. Normal raiding and 24man raid kind of serves that purpose, but I feel like it's not enough
That content exists it’s called Extremes
Savage and Extremes already exist.
@@rhael42 You miss the point, or you didn't elaborate enough.
God I miss Heavensward Scholar so much. Having half the summoners dps skills as a healer, I loved it.
I miss hw rpr so much
@@user-un2yf7bw2n _Wait a second..._
God yes. Healing even dungeons was so much fun on sch back then. You actually had to heal lmao.
Yeah =( Cleric stance >2 dots > Bane was so satisfying...
This is good feedback and a great discussion on skill ceiling and skill floors. I am sure you are well aware, but the devs do enjoy watching videos about criticism and pros and cons of their game. However, Yoshi P mentioned that most of his dev team does not speak English and that getting a translator is problematic (since their localizing team is busy, well, localizing and Yoshi P's lead localizer, Koji Fox is very busy juggling between management, The Primals, and so forth) and it is hard for them to get a translator on-demand (aka willing to work Japanese hours when most translators are overseas). Maybe having Japanese subtitles (auto mostly works) will get the message to the devs faster?
smol indie devs and all that
there were 6+ years of feedback about mch's wanting charges for wildfire and rapidfir and the latency problems, result: they are the only ones without any. You shouldn't believe everything they say, they said they wouldnt spare any cost to make the game better: recruit a community manager for the english forums to transmit the messages, simple.
All I know is everything game I critique people counter by saying the game was never intended for me. So what game is intended 36 yr old black man who likes fantasy and sci-fi and murder mystery? I like FF and Tales and Marvel and DC comics and movies. But unless I gush about Neir they tell me I wasted my time because it was for other people not me. So where is the RPG for black gamers?
@@kokayinewsome9308 try Guild Wars 2. Generally if people are unhappy with other MMOs they fall in love with it.
@@JasperOnari I love FF14, and I love ninja, but other than that class the changes they do to the other classes I play sting me. SMN used to be my second fav class. Dancer and MCH are good both of them. But I have to play all 3 to do what I want. Buff allies, dots, spread dots, and quickly atk at range.
I would go to Guild Wars 2. But I doubt it has the kinda anime style atks and story I love from Tales and FF games. I like limit breaks and Mystic Artes. I doubt that is in GW2.
as a casual player, this is a very nice insight into what higher-end players have to deal with everytime things get a little easier for us lmao-
i was one of the complainers of the straight ahead aoe's when i picked up WAR for the first time- but as time went on i actually started to prefer it and learn how to use it.
you make really good points and i hope (somehow) some of the developers see this video
Take your little fellas and gtfo of the game. Go play genshin impact and stop ruining fun for people with your presence.
22:30 to 22:49 sort of hit me emotionally. I love Final Fantasy XIV, but this is indeed a massive gripe I have with it, which saddens me thinking about the future of XIV
Guys I have a feeling Mr. Chairman isn't happy about Samurai. Just, I dunno, some type of hunch.
Excellent video! I heavily agree that the simplification and homogenization of jobs is one of the biggest problems with the game and one of the things that makes me want to play less. The most recent ninja/samurai changes genuinely make me question if anyone who proposed them has ever played those jobs as they have been met with near unanimous dislike, and makes me worry about the changes to other jobs in the future. And you're right, this has been a constant trend since shadowbringers launch, so to hear Yoshi P's answer be "if you want to do healing content, go do ultimate" is so disheartening. You have to realize that if the only content that provides some level of engagement for 1/4th of the playable jobs is the pinnacle of difficulty that only releases one new piece of content a year at best that something is dramatically wrong.
New summoner kinda feels like a low skill ceiling, low skill class with flashy effects to compensate for how boring the class is. The fact they made summoner try to feel like other mages makes the class not feel as special as it once was especially with how unique it used to be.
I hope someone can give this japanese subtitles so the dev team can see this
21:17 - 21:27 is exactly how I feel about most of MNK'S positionals being removed. I'm still doing positionals thanks to the muscle memory I developed learning the job. It's actually what made me enjoy the job enough to level it and use it as my main job.
I hate MNK and only ever played it once every 2 years for the few hours it took me to raise it to the new level cap each expac, and I STILL automatically do the now non-existent positionals because muscle memory is a bitch lol
I like how they condensed some of the looser skills to context-sensitive buttons and took away the stances while making chakra available earlier, but it defintiely feels worse not having more positionals in.
But games need to do changes, removes, buffs and nerfs to be played. Even if your class is super duper complicated it is going to not be played if they don't do any changes.
Why they do that things that you know already? Because they need to change them in a way that veteran players are not miles ahead of new players. This is MMO. And in fact... FF14... The MOST CASUAL MMO in the current "big mmo" market.
Right? Whats the point of riddle of earth now?
Yeah, Monks lose the challenge of keeping Greased Lightning uptime, and the challenge of maintaining positionals, but there's the challenge of learning how to repilot the class every other update. ... The current Monk, with it's lack of jank and wonkiness is an odd experience.
As someone that raided at a top level in HW and did speedkills in Creator, the game was definitely way more engaging back then than it is today. I'm sad that many of the players today had never gotten to experience what it was like to do things like: AST double balance pull then waiting on their draw cooldown, prepull popping infuriate on WAR then waiting on the timer to cooldown, never touching Defiance purely pulling only in Deliverance, while the ninja Shadewalkers the warrior and the AST precasts both shields and regen, while the SCH puts up Fey Wind for the attack speed buff, and neither healer casts a single heal for the first minute and a half of the fight on the tank because their HP bar is just a timer for when they use their immunity and the other tank provoked the boss off, so literally the entire party exclusively does balls-out DPS. Honorable mention: Fracture on WAR squeezed in for the last GCD of the Berserk window, cross-class Feint on BRD for movement and weaving without dropping Wanderer's, DRG and MNK both using Fracture for extra potency, using your SMN and SCH pets to absorb damage and cheese stack mechanics, abusing Trick Attack's debuff with Bane to snapshot debuffed dots onto every enemy, Holy had used up all your fucking MP (literally), Lustrate was a flat %-based heal instead of having potency, Raw Intuition guaranteed crit heals from the rear (momentarily). Shout out to Fell Cleave's awful screeching sound effect on release and Ring of Thorns destroying people's speakers when 20+ people were spamming it. RIP Aero III animation, Scourge animation, Shadow Flare (in general), Burning Arrow, Time Dilation, AST's aoe stun, Butcher's Block, Power Slash, Shadow Fang, Mutilate, and many other unique and cool skills.
There may have been jank but it was fucking fun jank. I still long for the possibility of experiencing the heyday of HW again one last time. I doubt we'll ever get a true "FFXIV: ARR Classic" experience but I can dream.
"There may have been jank but it was fucking fun jank" perfectly sums up HW and ARR. It really was fun as fuck.
Shout out to all the WHMs who complained in SB that AST was too hard and then when AST was simplified in Shb, complained that it was still too hard, and then when AST was even more simplified in EW, those WHMs decided that actually they just really like WHM.
I will never not be bitter about AST being put on training wheels because people saw thought it was unfair that AST got to be pretty looking and the prettiest looking job shouldn't be the hardest!
Stormblood AST was never hard.... those players just were not good at the job. (I wanted tried to say that as nicely as possible btw lol)
Been playing since 2.0 and I hard agree. The job simplifications over time really hurt, especially as a healer. I miss having shit to do, and Yoshi-P saying "If you want to have fun healing play Ultimates" is wholly unhelpful
As an AST I hear you.
@ It's busy but not hard. The card changes are absolute garbage. And now Divination doesn't even use cards anymore. It's sad.
@@TheOneGreat I agree with the card. But ast is hard to many folk because the rotation it’s self is too busy. Most just op for sage or whm. Considering the next high skill wall for healer is scholar and majority barley understand how to use fairy or trust fairy too much. On top of that many forget ast job as a whole is burst healing and to use the OGCD vs gcd in many end game content. So yeah it’s hard once you start learning rotations and incorporating it into savages. And ultimates.
@@TheWhitetagz not a single job in this game is actually hard, including ast.
A lot of the mention's changes are to homogenize damage/healing output to make it easier to balance the jobs in relation to each other preventing outliers that are clearly 'better'. Thats the reason everyone has a 123 combo and that fights are actually timed around the cooldowns of multiple (all?) classes. Easier to balance/design around.
Correct.
In reality, the min-max crowd is just as responsible for homogeneity. Game devs are well aware that any tiny advantage found will instantly become a preference, then the meta, then the requirement. Imagine that a small change makes, say, SAM do 2.5% more damage than any other job. Immediately you’ll see people change to SAM so that there is at least one in every static. A theorycrafter realizes that even with the diversity boost, having 4 SAMs ends up with a 1% damage advantage over a mix. Soon, PF has “only SAM” listed, even though the creator has no idea if it is true, or that only the top SAM players actually can make use of the advantage. Now people are making threads on Reddit and complaining. ‘SE doesn’t care!’ Come the shouts. Inevitably the nerf comes.
My tin foil hat opinion is that these changes were made to push more players towards harder content, and possibly "encourage" them to stay subbed for longer. By lowering the skill floor for most jobs, it makes the baseline performance level for savage and extreme easier to achieve, and therefore makes it more accessible for more players. You'd be more inclined to give that content a shot as a casual player if you are of the understanding that you only need to take a 101 course on your job rather than getting a 4 year degree. I think unfortunately this does come at a cost of established job identity for veteran players, and I hope they do not continue to homogenize jobs more, but we'll see.
If a job is not fun to play in anything but the hardest content players will eventually just stop playing. We really don't need a re-run of how Blizzard managed WoW.
This wouldnt be needed, if they decide to make harder versions of dungeons.
As a MNK main, I hated the old aggro system because I'm a good player and even with using Diversion on cooldown that meant getting clapped by mobs and bosses in dungeons. The old aggro system wasn't a system that challenged tanks, it was a system that punished good dps for being matched with a bad tank.
It also punished good tanks for being with dps who didn’t want to pop diversion or lucid.
And harshly punished tanks for dying. Now on top of weakness you get a self-imposed damage down. And to use your aggro combo that doesn't tie in to your rotation. And gods help you if you were a drk or pld, because then you lost resource and gcds as well.
Having watched so many black mages in Heavensward pop raging strikes, but not quelling.... you'd have thought they'd known this was how it would end up.
Ultimately no one wanted to be the one responsible for maintaining agro. I do think it was fair to back off from that since if you wanted to be the job that helped agro management, you were already playing ninja. Though now this new system, there's not really any such thing as agro management.
There's definitely a way to design an aggro system that isn't completely flat or downright fucky, but it seems they chose to completely remove threat as a mechanic asides from tank swaps, which is kinda a shame tbh
Whoa damn lolllllll.
The thing is : when we play a team game, we are supposed to adapt constantly to our teammates. That's the very purpose of the game (like any team sport)
It implied that DPS were supposed to take aggro into account in their gameplay to remind them they're not playing alone. Today, DPS gameplay is exactly the same when you are solo and in a team, and it's sad...
Besides, signing for a random group means «I'm ready to try to adapt myself to anybody». If you're not in this mentality, don't sign for a random group and play with people you have learned to know before.
Man I had a conversation on FF14 a couple months ago about how the leveling curve should be adjusted so that players can get more of their tools earlier so they can actially PLAY THEIR CLASS and LEARN IT and a couple people from Novice Network were telling me "uh no, we cant add ANY complexity because I know players that steuggle at level 1 to press their single button on cooldown"
Like okay? Then the game isnt for those people! If were expecting the absolute most bare minimum single braincell gameplay, why even have classes? FF14 bleeds way more players from the typical boring mmo grind with 2 buttons than it ever did because the content was "too hard"
Totally agree
I really dont like the simplifications put in and seeing things being simplified more and more as the games live progresses.
I feel like they might really end up making the game boring by oversimplifying and also
if theres no challenge to be had, people will not learn anything either.
Give players and also casual players more challenge and they will learn to adapt. Make everything super easy, and people do your content once, get bored and will never learn a thing.
dear yoship please revert 6.1 samurai changes so this man can feel peace again
Jobs having intentionally designed problems they need to overcome is definitely something there needs to be more of.
I keep seeing so many people want TBN to not have a MP cost or gunbreaker to lose continuation, but those are like the main things that actually make those jobs interesting to play. TBN is so much fun to learn to use effectively in every fight, and misusing it actually has a consequence. So yeah it feels bad when you fuck it up, but that just makes it feel even better when you get that sound when the TBN pops. Dark Knight has always historically been a risk/reward job in FF, and TBN is like the one thing it has that actually feels like that. Hell, it's something I wish other tanks had some of too. I wish gunbreaker had a cooldown that used a cartridge, warrior to have one that uses beast gauge, so that there could be some choice to make in how you manage your resources beyond just saving things for burst windows.
Gunbreaker without continuation would also be terrible. What would its identity be then? A tank that has a different 123 combo every 30 seconds? Anytime people have some issue with the game, it seems their first thought is to change the job when something else could be changed instead. Why remove guaranteed crit/DH from Inner Release when you could just make chain strategem and other buffs like it it also increase crit damage too? Why remove continuation when you could give them range so that moving the boss during burst windows is somewhat easier, or make it so you get stacks of continuation that you can spend wherever?
Overall, I like a lot of the job changes, particularly with tanks, there's very little I have to complain about. I mostly just wish we had more risk/reward. Like how Scholar can choose to use aetherflow on damage or healing abilities depending on the situation/comfort level. Or white mage where healing abilities directly feed into its damage now. Having stuff like that for tanks and mitigation would be fantastic. I don't like the mentality some folks seem to have that there never should be anything that requires sacrificing your damage. IMO, that's a big source of job homogenization too. Job resources are only ever used for damage, the exceptions being healers and dark knight.
While I agree with your overall sentiment, I have to disagree with TBN. There are multiple issues with the "complexity" of that ability. First and foremost, tying a defensive skill with offensive output is never a good decision because damage will always be prioritized in this game. In a scenario where you're uncertain whether TBN will break, you'll opt not to use it over risking 500 potency. Now I know the go to argument is "well, you didn't need it then!" That may be the case but now you have one tank deliberately taking more damage than the others. This impacts whether the healers need to spot heal in regards to that extra damage.
A bigger factor in why I dislike TBN's design is it can be entirely out of your control. I'll use P2S as my example. In order to keep uptime on Avarice, where a tank and DPS have to go to the wall/corner, DRK and WAR blow several CDs and shield themselves to avoid getting a damage down. For DRK, specifically, you need TBN, Rampart and Shadow Wall. If I get any other mitigation like say, Heart of Light or Corundum, TBN won't break. The extra damage mitigated from those additional CDs is just enough to prevent TBN from breaking. However, you need TBN to avoid that damage down as replacing it with Dark Mind/Oblation won't mitigate enough to avoid reducing the damage to zero. Hence why GNB and PLD need to invuln for uptime.
In the above circumstance, I have no control over my own optimization. Worse, the group can't have too much AoE mitigation or I'll lose damage. Now this is a niche scenario but goes to highlight the problem with TBN. And that isn't even getting into how inconsistent boss autos and such can be. Basically, moving that complexity to a pure damage skill not unlike Third Eye keeps to the same idea without taking away control from the DRK.
In regards to GNB. Continuation is absolutely fine. The simple change here is increasing the range to 6y. That way you can move the move without risking your cartridge combo.
You got punished more in HW for being stupid on Dark Knight than you do now.
@@Cassandra_Solidor Really like your idea of increasing range on continuation. The weapon is literally half gun, so why not give it a little extra range?
The only risks WAR has right now is using your IR when you actually wanted to get knocked back, as well as the animation lock
I don't want Dark Knight to lose TBN, I just don't want the other tanks to get a just as good or better equivalent resource for free. TBN is fun cause you can misuse it, but that feeling sours when you know you could have just played another job that can not possibly misuse their stuff.
(Tank main here) I think there are some legitimate arguments to dumbing down aggro management. Several jobs push up against the limit of buttons that people can reasonably use. Having Diversion on most DPS jobs just felt like a button tax, and ignoring it would allow lazier players to limit the performance of tanks. Combined with that, Shadewalker and Smokescreen heavily pushed a Ninja metagame on tanks who wanted peak performance. I would have preferred a solution in which the aggro management is still entirely on the tanks to control, because relying on randomly-matched people to cooperate felt bad, but also maintain stances like Defiance and Deliverance on each tank that would change some functions.
Warrior did this very well because of the way Unchained worked and the way Upheaval used to work with HP increases like Defiance and Thrill of Battle. Using Unchained, Thrill of Battle, and Upheaval allowed a spike in damage that could minimize the DPS loss of using Defiance for a short time. Paladin had no such options for Shield Oath, and Blood Price didn't really overcome the damage loss of Grit in Stormblood.
With all that said, Gunbreaker is there for people who want some complexity in their tanking and has no memories of the old days of aggro management attached to it. I'd personally say the same for Dark Knight since it's effectively a new job since Shadowbringers.
1000000000000000%, literally cannot believe someone is whining that they miss threat management... like WTF? clearly he didn't tank. and if he did then he clearly he's the type of dude to slam his junk in the door for fun.
that was literally the WORST thing about tanking, the craptastic DPS would REEEEEEEEEEE BLOW ALL COOLDOWNS AND BIGGEST HITS BEFORE THE TANK IS EVEN AT THE BOSSS NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW WHO CARES ABOUT AGGRO!!!!!!!!!! what a horrible take, idc what its SUPPOSED to be like, how it IS in every single game that has it, outside of your "static"/raid whatever, 80-90% of the time brainlet DPS don't care and pull the boss and unload on it before you even get close OH BOY YAY NOW HES GOT A HUGE AGGRO LEAD ON ME AND IM JUST WALKING UP TO THE BOSS NOW! boom dead dps... healer stops to rez... boom dead tank because its all happening so fast and noone was prepared.... yeah no i'd rather be able to toss my axe once on my way in and that's that.
absolutely one of the dumbest takes i've ever heard from misshapen chair
@@zeening I wasn't around then but I remember FF XI. DPS (called SUP then) would pull with heavy hits then tanks would provoke to take back aggro (hate.) Sounds like tanking in XIV was actually harder than its predecessor XI.
Played, 2.0, took a break, came back in ShB. Lamented the PLD changes.
Played SMN in ShB, lamented the changes in EW.
And now, I am lamenting the changes to SAM.
I'm in a weird place now where I can't find any jobs I enjoy playing as there were so few to begin with and the ones I thought weren't bad or actually did like got "fixed" for the worst.
And forget content difficulty outside of the most endgame content.
At this point, I've become so pessimistic about the game direction that I just don't see myself sticking to this game for the next 10 years. Which sucks because I have no replacement for it.
this is what having Kaiten taken away does to a man, look what you have done Square Enix.
Coming back to this video every so often whenever homogenization/job design gets put into question. 2 years and counting and yet the entire video aged like fine wine.
Great job Mr. Chair.
I miss my summoner DOTs 😭
If they haven't made combos into one button by next expansion I'll be impressed.
They did. But just for PvP ;)
Oh... and gunbreaker (which I still refuse to use on just one button after three years of having the cartridge combo on three)
People are literally begging for this to happen, and are already doing it through third party tools. So I honestly think it's inevitable.
Amen, on a sticky game like an MMO, having room to grow with your character is key and this is something I've been complaining about for years. Good healers have become really hard to find because the career healers moved to other roles after getting bored. Yet SE changes keep going in the same direction.
Absolutely. As a Healer main since SB (played Spell Bard in HW) I, too, am looking to play RPR just so I can enjoy the game again.
Maybe its just in jp server but WHM and is the most popular job and sage is really popular too.
Thats why they are keep making the jobs easy because a lot of people liked it.
Instead of making the jobs hard they made the actual fight hard in new ultimate.
Also in hardcore content healers have a lot of optimizing on healing its pretty fun and I think its the hardest roll in ultimates.
@@renarenacat I mentioned healers in high-end. Yes, healer might be popular in other content because it has short queues and *you don't actually need to heal*. But for career healers who love to play support roles, FF14 has the worst healer gameplay of any game right now (including itself a few expansions back, it's not like healers were always bad).
And harder content is very different from higher skill ceilings on roles. I don't care how hard ultimate is. It's one fight once a year, and the healers that have cleared ended up DPSing ~70% of it -during prog-. Which is basically a ONE BUTTON mash.
If anything, Ultimate HIGHLIGHTS the problem because the people doing that content are good at the game and exactly the kind of people complaining about healer gameplay.
@@dmillk not every healer that clears content is gonna be dpsing 70% of it, maximizing healing efficiency especially in the new ultimate where there's a lot of hard hitting unavoidable damage is difficult and the times you see it done both healers have practiced their healing rotation with each other throughout the fight and are communicating well. Not every healer pair clears like this, some heal more or heal over each other's heals, not every person who clears ultimates plays their class to perfection.
@@anthony26812 That isn't correct. Ultimate fights have tight enough checks that it really limits the amount of overheal and unoptimized play you can make as a healer. For example, the lowest-ranked healer to clear TEA (while the patch was current, ie: when better food/gear wasn't available), DPSed 65% of the time.
What you're saying is true of other content and other skill tiers. But the point is that players who 'career' healers will get past that point eventually, it's not an 'if' it's a 'when'. And when they do there's nothing for them because the roles have been simplified to death and they will already be at the skill ceiling. Harder content isn't going to help.
Very interesting discussion. Personally, there was a time when I enjoyed mastering jobs beyond my personal comfort zone and then playing them in hard content. It was fun. Now I have less time and energy for it, so I play what is easy (comfortable) for me and I play it in casual content. But I don't want them to take away the skill ceiling for players who do have the desire and time. There are plenty of jobs and content we can do at a more comfortable level. Even when I am not optimizing a job, after playing it for some time it is more fun if there are optimizations. It keeps things fresh and harms no one. And I agree you can't keep veterans around without some high ceilings, even casual players get better over time just by sticking around. I love what you said about FFXIV segregating casual and hardcore content, so nobody steps on each others' toes. This is one thing that brought me to the game and keeps me here. It is great for both sides and ironically keeps the community from being divided and toxic to each other. I hope they don't remove skill ceilings. They are good for all of us.
Honestly, the old aggro system clashed the hardcore vs casual players rather hard, which was why the aggro change was kinda needed.
Especially in alliance raids, there would be tanks who have raided savage never going into tank stance because obviously, it would've been a DPS loss, and aggro instead is either handled through shirking with the co-tank AND the rest of the team mashing their aggro management buttons as soon as it's off CD. However, that knowledge is widely unknown among casual players, so there would be *many* times where to the eyes of the average casual, the tank would look like they're not doing their job because they're not attempting to hold aggro. But, to the raiders, they would call out the casuals for not doing their job because they probably don't know those buttons even exist. Regardless of which side you take, both sides will have negative experiences because of it.
Eh, if you're so hardcore you're doing savage, you should be smart enough to know that Alliance raids aren't the same.
As a healer, I expect people to not get hit in Savage other by things they cannot avoid, so you can plan your heals and whatnot. Of course there might be the odd slip up.
But alliance raids? Psh, feel free to get hit, I'll heal you, its okay
It was really annoying to have all the fun ruined by samurais that didn't even bother using diversion. At least tankbusters helped them manage their aggro.
@@scotaloo77g73 whenever i talk about old tank agro people go "oh boy, another 1 of those" which is ... weird?
i always loved it as an MT and OT (switching back then between Warrior and Paladin)
as Warrior i would start in tank stance (unchained to remove that penalty) and then after the 2nd hit i would also pop equilibrium for some healing agro (really did a good amount for it) then after the 3rd hit i would enter DPS stance and have my OT manage the emnity at that point by simply provoking and shirking at the right times.
It gave the OT something to do other than be an blue DPS not actually participating in your role.
the only issue with agro back then was white mages honestly, for 1 simple reason.
benny generated so much that it was just poorly designed and their emnity management tool was build into their MP management tool (lucid dreaming) so unless you wanted to burn through MP you would grab agro really quick, they fixed that around the last savage tier of Stormblood and in Shadowbringers "we removed DPS stance because it was too hard to manage, look forward to it"
Not really sure what you're on about now, I never played when ARR was active but rather started in heavensward. And I never experienced this being an issue in neither heavensward or stormblood. It was merely another cool quirk of the game, that also made it very viable to bring ninjas as they had great agro management abilities as non-tanks. Removing aggro just made it more braindead.
@@valizeth4073 You couldn't mt optimally in Stormblood with casual players in the party due to 0 aggro management from their part. It was painful to constantly have to switch to tank stance just because a random dps didn't have Diversion on their hotbars or the ot didn't know how to voke shirk. Removing aggro made casual content bearable for people who knew the basics of the game.
This is pretty spot on. I started in ShB and mostly main some tanks in hard content but I felt like in Endwalker they really dumbed down some things. Removing gauge management and other things, I still love this game and I think they strike a good middle ground to attract all players as that's what they want. Though there are some aspects I wish they didn't remove say example all WARs gauge management, and most of monks positionals - that was monks identity. That and another gripe I have is the tanks have always felt very samey, but again I started in ShB. Hopefully a good middle ground is kept without lowering the bar too much in the future.
Keep it up.
Edit also cone AoEs we're nice. You got more range and in high end content like tea that could save you from using that one range gcd and hit both bosses with a cone. Niche but cool.
The case of Hissatsu: Kaiten specifically is a curious one, because to me it always seemed like "fake" complexity.
It is a button that has no other functional use than to always be used before your Iaijutsu. Never for any other weaponskill, and there is not a single Iaijutsu you wouldn't use it for.
You ALWAYS use it. There is no thought to using it. There is no skill expression in using it. Because you JUST do it. It is just a button that buffs up your damage that you unquestionably use in every instance. To the point the complexity no longer exists. It is simply an additional button press to open up another button. It's the button you press to open up the door to a safety bunker. Except that it doesn't actually open up the door, it simply opens up a hatch revealing another button to press that is actually the one that will open the door to the bunker.
The change does not cater to casuals, it does not cater experts either. It doesn't cater to any one player. It caters to getting rid of button bloat for a game that is already meant to be played with both keyboard and mouse, or a Playstation controller. And if we need to get rid of a button to make space for more and to ease up button bloat, the button that doesn't have any functional use other than to enable another button should come first.
Equally, the existence of Ogi Namikiri as a separate button from Ikishoten, despite the former only being functional if Ikishoten is on cooldown, is also something they should consider for button bloat. It does not add skill to a class that actions that are combo'd to each other take several buttons on your preferred type of control. But most of us like them being on different buttons because it would feel brainless if everything functioned off the same button. But then why is Kaeshi Namikiri on the same button as Ogi Namikiri, if neither of them are on the same button as Ikishoten. But Mirage Jump is on the same button as Jump now, and Phantom Kamaitachi is on the same button as Bunshin.
Actions you can only use if another action is on cooldown, that you literally functionally cannot fat finger accidentally, do not get added complexity from being on separate buttons as the skill activating them. But combos that can be used even if they aren't successfully executing the combo, being on different buttons, so that you can technically fat finger and fuck it up, is how it should be. There is a level of "skill" to pressing the right buttons on the keyboard or controller. But most of us with better than average hand eye coordination take it as granted so we forget said skill because we are above it. But it's still there which is why "fat fingering" should be an existing risk to the player always. But enough about that.
The AoE changes? While the cone AoE's add flavor, it again doesn't feel like a case of skill expression. But I am a little sad they don't exist, because their tedium did not come from the shape. It came from the target requirement and inconsistency with other AoE's in the kits. Samurais one specifically, less so for warrior where you always have the control of the aggro anyway so the cone AoE basically always hits and works as you want.
On Samurai, wanting to avoid the occasional cleave attacks from enemies if there is any, while wanting to hit the AoE's, which go from Cone > Circle > Cone > Circle > Cone > Repeat, always felt more like a chore than something fun to do. But that could all also easily be remedied by the removal of the targeted enemy factor. If a circle AoE doesn't need a target, why would the Cone one? Was it because of legacy movement style being hard to make work accurately if the aiming for the ability would solely work based off of your characters direction, or maybe the direction of the camera it would snap to? Or something else? I don't know. But that tedious back and forth with the forced target to even use it was definitely the issue I had with the Cone AoE's. But not enough for where I'd want them to be removed either.
All in all what I guess I'm saying is, a lot of people to me, perceive sometimes redundant complexity that is a relic of an older game as something worthwhile, while I believe a full reset to said redundancy, and then developing it to be more complex, now with more meaning to it and with more experience would be the far more effective measure, and possibly their end goal to begin with. However only getting new skillsets every 2 years along with a level cap increase, or inconsistent rework timings definitely makes it tedious to wait for the change we all want. I'm hoping as we hit the 100's and look forward to our next expansion, we could be looking at not only more in-depth classes with a soft-specialization system, or otherwise improving on what we have again and increasing the skill ceiling again as the hopeful endgoal for both the devs and the players.
The thing is that they definitely want to move more of the game's difficulty from job gameplay to fight mechanics. And making jobs more similar makes fight design easier, because there are fewer unique abilities to design around. And moving more of the difficulty to the content frees job choice to be more about aesthetics, which is the biggest draw of a job for most players.
rotating weeb sword removal send this man over the edge lmfao
I'm so fucking glad this video exists I can't find anyone that agrees why do so many people want all the jobs to be playable by actual monkeys, it's not even like you need to know your rotation properly to do 80% of the content in the game
I want to add that it seems like sometimes the Dev team makes changes because of complete misinterpretations of what people want out of their jobs. For example, the Samurai changes near the start of EW where the range on out iajutsus were extended. IIRC, the dev team said they thought it was what we sam players really wanted to stop our casts getting interrupted by boss movement. Its an alright QoL change, but it really wasnt too much of a problem, the issue was very easy to adjust around.
I remember having to MP manage when AST was released in HW. It was very hard for me at first, but I grew to love it how it was and have mained it ever since. It was fun having the Ewer card lower the MP required to cast spells. I enjoyed it when they changed it to an MP regen and you could use another card mechanic to strengthen, increase the duration to about 1 min, or aoe buffing with a 50% decrease in strength to the whole party. It made my favorite class very fun to play. Now I can't even give people an aoe buff or even increase the duration of said buff from a card.
The thing with devs not playing different jobs is a real issue, since it leads to the devs not understanding why people play certain jobs & what they get out of them.
It honestly feel like a lot of jobs exist in whatever limbo exists within an intern's head until Yoshi P actually tries something other than BLM, reads (some) of the feedback (from JPN players) & institute changes that people long asked for.
I'll chime in as a BLM player and say that even the favored jobs aren't immune to weird design fuckups that "normal" players wouldn't dare suggest. Moving Leylines from 90s to 120s was a *bizzare* change that has absolutely zero positive effects on BLM gameplay. Our AoE also received severe downgrades at level cap for no apparent reason, including Foul getting absolutely gutted (60% falloff on extra targets makes it worse than even HF2 for 3+ enemies, and remember it used to be 20% falloff and higher potency) and the loss of the incredibly smooth Cold Flare rotation. BLM is far from bad or anything but the 6.0 changes were pretty wack aside from Paradox (and 90% of Paradox being good is a complete accident).
Never mind I'm playing BLM now because my old main of SMN got, uh, removed from the game. Egis I can happily live without, but losing 30s ED, R4/EA management, DoTs, actual interaction with Demis, Phoenix combo, all meaningful cleave gameplay, 90% of cast times, and all rotational flexibility? Yeah it's just not even a job at that point. Fun fact, they didn't even fix the bug that caused Phoenix to require a triple weave / clipping, they just made FBT a GCD so that you physically couldn't go "too fast" for the dumb bird.
It would be a real issue if it were true. The dev team is large, they absolutely do play all the jobs so no idea why this dude thinks they don't.
I had forgotten about this vid, but saw another guy which is not the WOW dude reacting to it, so I closed that tab and came here to watch it thrice and leave a comment for extra interaction
People never understand removing perceived 'clunkiness' from a job if they, themselves, never found the aspect being changed clunky, or are just so used to it, now, that it's second nature. That's not to say I agree with every change, personally, since I don't believe everything that was changed was indeed clunky, but chances are the class designers thought it was, and when they saw people complaining about it enough they decided it was time to change it and see how that change went over, based on data we don't access to.
When it comes to complaining about weaving, I never really see that unless it's from people with higher ping. In some places, some jobs are just not as good to play because the high ping stops you from doing things like double weaving, which is almost essential for certain jobs. As someone from Australia who used to play exclusively on an NA server I can tell you that playing with high ping on jobs that, if you want to play optimally in savage content, need you to do so is definitely not as viable, Even if you really enjoy the way the job plays. So unless they fix how button presses are managed like some mods do, (although I've never used them), I think it's okay for people to complain about it. Because for them, it is a genuine issue.
Oh I definitely complain about it. But I don't play those jobs anymore. It makes me sad that I can't play them anymore, but the busy part is what I liked about them. Ninja wouldn't be ninja without mudras.
If they could unspaghetti their code and make more optimizations, it wouldn't be so bad, but it's a high ping life for me.
If you have above 120~150 ms to a server, Alexander mod becomes a must, sadly.
It’s also a self induced issue. If I’m on NA and I play on JP servers and complain about ping. That’s my fault, I’m CHOOSING to play on the JP server with jank ping instead of playing on a server that’s closer to me. I’ll never understand why people complain about ping when they play on servers on other parts of the world, truly baffling.
@@QuestionQuestionMark Sadly, most of us just have high ping because shit internet.
I hate the change on the Samurai cone attack sooo much. Was so fun moving around with it.
Me who never has given a shit about savage or raiding in general: Make things more convoluted, it's fun.
I will say as a NIN main, I got upset an the Trick attack change at first, then I realized what they actually did, and love the change. Mug is now Trick attack to stack with the 2 min buffs, and now i get a personal buff every min. Works for me.
Yeah my initial reaction was negative, but since playing it after the change I'm enjoying it. I don't mind the group buff being braindead easy and the personal buff taking more work. AST is similar (just the AST personal buff is underwhelming).
Same, job still plays and feels the same so all is well.
@@tangentkatz AST needs some rework imo. Cards are really annoying now with only 1 redraw per card and I STRONGLY DISLIKE lady of crowns. Also, crown play and minor arcana are 2 buttons because...?
Give me more redraws so I can actually get the good buff and remove lady of crowns (or at least make it good) and just make crownplay 1 button and you've got pretty nice AST.
Edit: Also, remember sleeve draw? Why is that gone? Bring it back. It's mathematically the hardest to get a 3rd arcanum so having a free screw off rng button every so often was quite nice.
You keep asking who this is for, and you've excluded a middle that in fairness doesnt really exist on the english servers.
They want to make a middle tier player, like they have on the JP servers. They do Savage, but they dont join statics or spend forever in Party Finder. These changes are meant to make it easier for this mid-level player, and make it easier for low level players to become mid-level players. It's been an observed problem on the non-JP servers that most people would rather stay a terrible player rather than become a high tier player. The job changes superboosted the number of people attempting EX and Savage on JP, so in their eyes, they worked out just fine.
Any **official** data on the claim the changes made a lot more casuals try Savage in JP ?
Because here in the West I feel it only alienates the higher end. People who want to try Savage for real are going to try. The casuals who fear any challenge won't enter the challenge because the jobs had 1 button removed, they'll wait for the easy options (unsync. For the braver part of them - Echo boost).
I think this isn't really right at all? I mean it makes no sense, it's not like JP players are like Aliens, removing a few buttons off rotations and making the job a tiny bit simpler isn't going to make players just run savage all of a sudden. I need to actually see the statistics of this patch to patch. But either way if you ask me, I think Yoshi and the rest of those devs have filled their pockets for life and are now just feeding on the rest of the massive majority that is the casual ERPing community that spends BANK on the mogststion and now the devs are wiping their ass with our feed back and throwing it in our faces because they don't give a shit anymore (irony). They realize we love the game too much and it's an excuse for them to be lazy. I just hope it doesn't bite them in the ass later.
@@DridriKon I dunno about official data, but if you look at Lucky Bancho, most of the JP servers moved up in clear rates anywhere from 3 to 6% as opposed to the previous raid of Eden's Promise--even though Eden's Promise had been out much, much longer. That's a substantial increase, and they're going to look at it as a success. Now I understand issues about maybe one is more difficult than the other, but it's a big boost that's only going to get bigger.
Again, this is about encouraging the emergence of midcore players. It's not about casuals over hardcores. It's my belief that they just want people who will find their rotation more straightforward so they can focus on the mechanics of the encounter.
Dude what are you smoking? There absolutely is a middle tier.
The Samurai cone changes really baffled me. I'm no hardcore player, I'm an even filthier casual than chair, I'm in an UWU group but I just wanna do my rotations correct and press shit on cooldown, including buffs, maybe that's playing the job incorrect, I dunno, but I'm enjoying myself and I'm not SEEMINGLY holding the group back.
But those cone-changes really confused me. Honestly I find hitting a wide-ass cone far easier than a circle AOE... wondered why samurai felt pretty weird to play in dungeons, especially since their pre-86 AOE starter is STILL a cone. But the Iaijutsu isn't.
The representation of virtue's last reward and AI the somnium files make me very happy x
i missed the animation for kaiten so much, and was very confused when goken was made into a circle. i also really miss my old drg tether animation :(
edit: also the other samurai starter aoe, i was very confused with that too..
I 100% agree that the removal of Samurai’s conal damaged the overall gameplay of mob clearing. Before it was all about weaving in and out of danger zones while maintaining uptime on as many targets as possible. There is a satisfying movement that is cohesive with the conal directions. The class now feels quite dull when it comes to dungeon clearing.
Don’t even get me started on Kaitan because I feel naked without it.
How does an aoe or cone change the fact you should move out of an aoe targetted on you. The only change is that you don't have to move as much as part of your actual rotation, and even then, as classes with conal aoes you could just cone from the middle of mobs and hit them all anyways because of how hitboxes in this game work.
@@cmerk100 I think you’re misunderstanding the form and function with the identity of the role.
Perhaps it is easier to stand in the center of the pack and Conal through it. But thats not how i conduct my movement.
Theres a specific feeling that is satisfying for the samurai conal that follows up into the circular aoe. From a gameplay perspective of the minigame, we slash from the outside cleaving into the swarm. The samurai movement pushes you into the mob as though you dashed in, following with an circular aoe, repeat for two sen totals. The Sam then moves back to the edge of all the mobs and performs Tenka Goken and maybe Kaeshi Goken. In the middle of this youre weaving shoha(variants) and Kyuten.
The loop of sam’s aoe rotation is akin to dashing in and out of combat. It goes beyond the function and more into the flow of combat.
Edit: Its more than just standing in the center and aoeing as a sam. Theres a slough of movement that replicates or roleplays a samurai dashing in and out of combat. Not just sitting in the center and spamming. Maybe to some folks it’s efficient, but its not fun to me. This is from an individual who has played sam as their main role when i started the game in 2018.
@@paradeoffools To me the core identity of sam was the sticker system in combination with the cast bar system, which is a play on the FF11 design of how it would self chain weaponskills for large bursts which they represent in this case as the sen stickers. Weaving in more weaponskills between your other skills also fits with the offensive style of Samurai culminating in the big satisfying casted weaponskill striking down your enemies, and managing these is what's core to sam.
Want to know what's not core to sam identity? Whether one of your aoes was a cone or not.
@@cmerk100 I think thats where you’re wrong. You can’t totally parallel the two games because they are fundamentally different. This is based off my understanding when the game had a level 70/75 level cap. FF11 at my time of playing was more a single pull grind for leveling, maybe two if a bard pulled then slept the next target.
But that aside, the aoe rotation of samurai was a core part of its identity because it made the job stand out unalike a lot of other melees. There is something enticing about the disadvantages of a conal and diversifies the gameplay from other melees.
I like the micro-movements as i wind slashed conal before diving into the enemy ranks. I think you’re more focused on the efficiency and exploitation of game design that you fail to see the flow of samurai combat within a dungeon setting. The identity of sams flow is in both their single/aoe rotation.
@@paradeoffools I am not focused on efficiency at all. I just disagree with your opinion on what the core identity of samurai is. I just disagree that the change to conal aoe affects samurais identity in any fashion, as dodging aoes is STILL required, and you could in fact cleave from the middle of most pulls anyways. All it changes is whether your movement is required by the rotation.
For example I don't like that SE removed an ability from sam, I think that should have stayed in. I don't think conal or aoe really adds much diversity to the game because most aoe pulls are just slamming everything into one big pull and spamming aoe's the distinction between cone and aoe becomes pretty much meaningless with how hit boxes work to begin with and does not add meaningful or interesting gameplay design. Their rotation is exactly the same as before.
I took alot of time in SHB to learn SMN in savage content and I loved it, it took time to learn the fight and keep your rotation going to optimize everything (like BLM but more mobile). EW SMN now is braindead, sure more people play the job now but I hate it, there is next to nothing to optimize with it and I have lost the job that I fell in love with.
I to this day have not found a job that scratches my needs like SHB SMN did.
18:22 for the love of god, don't they dare touch GB. I love that job as it is now. It's a palate cleanse when i want something else to play other than my main tank, PLD.
Given what they've been doing to other jobs I'd say it is only a matter of time. It appears it takes them generally 2 expansions to completely forget whatever design goals they had in mind for any job they don't main, so you'd better hold on to your hat for 7.x...
Please continue making these longer (20+ min) videos if/when you find the inspiration to do so. I could listen to your voice all day - actually, I do that already. :>
_Chair is getting quite angsty these days. I can almost hear the Bullet for my Valentine in the background._
Don’t know why they would lower the barrier of entry for the hardest content. So long as they don’t gate story content behind it, casual players like myself don’t need to bother with it.
I am a very casual player that doesn't even do current expansion EX trials, but my fun comes from doing the standard easy content as well as possible, pushing to max DPS and uptime. The dumbing down of jobs is making easy content that I used to enjoy much more boring because there are less ways to optimize my play.
How do you enjoy optimizing in easy content but won't do current difficult content where optimization is actually rewarded?
I have a similar mindset to OP, so here's my take:
I do not want to have to schedule aside time to play a with a static. I used to raid like this a decade ago in WoW and I don't want to do it again. Having to forgo external social interactions because they coincide with a raiding schedule sucks. Feeling like I have to play or else I'm letting the team down, because I want to do or play anything else sucks. I don't want a static because, even though I love the game, I don't always want to play it everyday.
I'm regards to Party Finder, while I don't mind throwing a few hours at a fight to learn it and then optimize from there, I don't enjoy throwing an other dozen or so to chance upon finding an actual clear party to do so. This gets increasing difficult if I just don't feel like playing the week an Extreme comes out (I can't talk about Savage as I've never tried). While I have no issue with the game allowing players to separate those that have cleared from those who haven't, it does have the side effect of lowering the amount of players that can play skillfully enough to clear over time. So ultimately, I feel that if I don't clear (or play) week one, then it's not worth the opportunity cost to even attempt.
Tl;dr: The biggest barrier to entry for Extreme/Savage content is the time investment to find a decent and like minded group, and the opportunity cost that comes with it.
Mitsu nails it. I did harder stuff in FFXI back in the day and even did first Coil, but have no desire to invest that much time now.
I did Zurvan EX when it was current, but the number of utterly terrible farm parties you find in the PF means you can spend entire evenings getting nothing even if you yourself have the fight down pat.
So I just do the standard normie content and push myself to make it fun. But the more dumbed down it gets, the fewer ways we can actually optimize, the less fun it becomes. RIP kaiten, SAM was my boy :(
@@mitsudafanni7978 yep. I finally decided to do high end content in FFXIV this week (started playing last july, almost caught up when EW dropped, so I was a late to EXs/Savage, end up not doing it because of it and dropped my sub in late january until 6.1) and it's exactly that. EX, at least EX3, has been relatively ok so far, but trying P1S has been a nightmare. It's not even a hard fight, but several months after the content drop, the only people not doing [Duty Complete] runs are usually not very good at the game and you only need 1 player not doing mechanics correctly to ruin a run.
I'm sure I can keep trying until I get a decent group and P2S and above should be more or less fine (well, maybe not P3S from what I've heard), but yeah, it was exhausting doing several hours of raiding, effectively mastering the fight and still not clearing it because of 1 or 2 players messing up mechanics or leaving and effectively resetting the prog.
Because for some (like me), optimization is its own reward. Does it really matter if I, the MCH, shave off 10 seconds off of Pandaemonium 1 Normal because I pressed my buttons betters? No. But I'll know that I did so and it feels fun doing it, so...I do it.
"Why are you playing gunbreaker if it's too busy for you?"
My guess is aesthetic. These players like the aesthetic of the job, but don't like how hard it is to play (for them) and don't want to be barred from playing the job they'd otherwise like by mechanics that they don't. I'm not saying this is a correct or wrong mindset. I don't play GNB except to level it and I don't care either way for the job aesthetic, so idk. But this is my guess.
The hardest thing in FF14 is finding a static
it seems to be the problem with most of these discussions is that there is an assumption that a meaningful amount of the player base care about "skill ceiling" and it seems to be the case that does not exist, FF is not on average played by people who care about being good at the game COMPARED to other MMO's or games of similar style. this can be demonstrated by how "easy" the jobs and content has become but yet the amount of people who complete that content is a small portion of the overall player base. it seems to be a good idea to make the jobs themselves moderately simple and smooth while using the actual in game events to test the skill curve of players IE " make the jobs easy but the raids hard"
imo why make a job more simple if you can already play it simply and clear content. if the majority only want to play normal content, then go ahead you can. did you have to press on kaiten to clear? no. You can even remove it from hotbar. these type of changes literally only hurt endgame players
I agree to an extent. But the problem is making things easier for players who dont even press their buttons to begin with literally doesnt matter because theyre not even using them. So the change is completely pointless because the people who werent complaining now have to completely fix their completely fine-tuned rotation for players who wont even press their buttons. I cant tell you how many times ive seen people with completely maxed out job lists that dont even know what a basic AoE rotation is in a dungeon. Making changes for these kinds of people literally does nothing and only hurts the people who put time and effort into actually learning.
The problem isnt the playerbase, well at least not directly, its the compromizing of said skill ceiling to cater to those said players. Thats legit the point of this video, it is hurting its veteran players by watering down the games mechanics and its content for the sake of leveling the playing field. You can argue if thats good or bad all you want, but it isnt the point of the videos title. Its hurting its veteran playerbase regardless.
The entire point of this video is that if you make the jobs simple and raids hard you end up with high-end players hating the game outside of Savage/Ultimate because they can't have fun in casual content.
@@omegacloud222 that's not even the case. The biggest issue is still the servers. Having to press X button in weaving to do Y skill and trying to figure out why it didn't hit....only to find out the sever didn't register the input is pure ass.
It's not so much they are dumbing down the classes, they are also playing with restrictions due to them not having proper net code. Something they need to fix soon or each class will just have 5-6 buttons to avoid imput issues.
Mr.Chair, I fear you have just jinxed us Dragoon mains into oblivion. They said there are "Dragoon Changes" coming soon and with the fact Dragoon is pretty much perfect right now I really don't want them changing anything, but since you pointed out that Dragoon is a really well designed class I fear they're going to turn Dragoon into what Reaper plays like but even worse.
Oh jebz, what could they possibly change? DRG feels so smooth and solid already. Only changes I'd want would be stardriver not clipping, an AOE at early levels, and Nidhogg level animations in life... And maybe losing positionals but only kinda cause it's fun to push myself into getting better at those...
@@AngelMercury prepare for circle AoEs :P
idk if I'd call drg perfect right now. nothing has ever compared to hw drg 😔
For context, I played XIV for about 5 years; tail end of Heavensward, first major patch of Stormblood, and all of Shadowbringers, never really dabbled in the harder content (for reasons I will state below). WHT was my main class and WAR was my second. I'm a masochistic healslut, I guess. I've also played WoW since 2006, and raided a good bit in 4 expansions (Wrath, WOD, Legion, and BFA), so my experience with that game are more finely tuned.
I think the thing you're talking about with the class design (I'm calling them classes, sue me) is something WoW had to deal with; homogenization. Making every class the same and removing the identity. Take mages and their Fire specialization; they turned the 'SCORCHED EARTH, MOTHERFUCKER' crit machine and turned it into revolving around getting as big of a DOT as you can via Combustion (a spell that originally increased your crit chance till you scored 3 crits in a row). They became a watered down warlock, the class known for its slew of DOT spells. I hated it and decided to go Frost instead, which thankfully, became more viable. Or turning paladins into mini-rogues with the Holy Power system. Granted, some classes kept their core identities, but it came to a point that each class could do the things other classes could do; every class got an interrupt (for melee classes) or a silence (for ranged classes, which counted as an interrupt). Some things went over well with players, but the general consensus was class homogenization was hurting the game. And it has.
Ironically enough, Endwalker is the same expansion number as when it started REALLY happening in WoW; Mists of Pandaria, the fourth WoW expansion, was when we saw the talent revamp and more samey class design. Endwalker is XIVs fourth expansion. It's like poetry, it rhymes.
How does this relate to my experiences with XIV? It doesn't really, but I can at least give my small experienced take. The comment on the class design is what makes fights challenging made me rethink how the harder content works; my only experience was Savage Titania (is it called Savage for Trials?). My braindead ass as a WHT was able to handle 99% of the mechanics, except for when she made specific arm movements to indicate the area she was hitting in P1 (seriously, what the fuck Square?). Toss Dia on the mobs and Glare when people weren't standing in bad shit and being even more braindead than me, and I think I cleared it ONCE (it wasn't a 'static' either, just a random group). WHT is probably the easiest for me, mechanically, since they have 2 primary damage spells, an AOE spell, and a nuke you can use only after using a specific and useful healing spell 3 times. I also dabbled into the other Trial, the one with the pretty boy (can't remember his name). Again, my braindead ass was able to handle the mechanics with little issue except when certain ones overlapped poorly, never managed to clear it.
I never tried going for harder content for one reason; healers are expected to hit DPS thresholds. That was what I got from seeing how people talked and acted. I don't like that. To me, that spells either a bad community outlook or poor boss/class design on the devs; either lower health levels so DPS can hit it on their own or up the DPS classes damage to hit it. Yes, if there's downtime, then toss out a few damage spells, but I'm playing a healer to heal.
And that's where the 'class design is what makes fights challenging' comes into play. The encounters are designed for healers TO hit certain DPS thresholds, whereas WoW doesn't. WoWs difficulty comes from the actual encounters themselves, and after doing Savage Titania and Mythic Emerald Nightmare, which are the only 'top level' difficulties I've done, I think I get it. Though I think this is a problem in and of itself, FFXIV treats the player character as the main character. You're the sole hero everyone relies on, and mastery of your class probably FEELS that way. Whereas WoW treats the player like another cog in the wheel (figuratively since you're a 'soldier' of your faction and literally most of the time), and while mastery of your class helps, mastery of the encounters goes a long way; doing 30k DPS in the first 10 seconds means nothing when you die shortly after because you ignored mechanics.
I have my own personal gripes with XIV, from a gameplay perspective (since I'm more used to WoW) and a community perspective (the things I've seen and heard, especially from someone I once called a friend), but honestly, I want XIV to thrive and get better. Hopefully that'll kick Blizzard in the ass and make them rethink how they're developing WoW (and it seems they're going in that direction with Dragonflight and Wrath Classic). If both games learn from the other and get better, we all win, you know?
Also, XIV needs to copy the Mythic dungeon aspect. I think Squares interpretation of it would be really fucking neat.
Edit: forgot I also did the pretty boy trial in Shadowbringers, added that in.
"cries in summoner"
As a guy who does ultimates, he's right lol. Normal content just feels like a chore at times because of how mind numbingly simple it can be. It has become hard for the game's combat to interest me outside savage and ultimate. Honestly I think its why a lot of savage people parse. At some point just clearing gets uninteresting also.
It gets worse with how Ultimates have already slowed down to the crawl. So hardcore players get content once a year **if they are lucky**. How are you supposed to remain excited when you get to "play the game" once a year?
This is especially problematic for healers where YoshiP literally told them "if you want to heal, go do ultimates".
@@Gogito4 Idk if they can ever fix healers tbh. If healing is hard in normal content its gonna be impossible in hard content, and if healing is hard in hard content its gonna be easy is normal content. I don't think it can ever be interesting across the board.
@@tommyjamdee8257 It's one thing to make healing only hard in hard content. But they made healing only hard in *1* fight in a year. This is an entire role that you basically are told you only get to have fun in once a year.
Healing should be hard in Savage. Keep it easy in normal, hard and heck, even EXs, but people shouldn't be able to solo heal Savage basically imediately.
@@Gogito4 you wouldn't be able to solo heal savage not because of just the heal checks but because of the mechanics. you probably wouldn't be able to clear P3S or P4S without 2 healers
@@tommyjamdee8257 I don't think that's true because what makes FFXIV healing so weird and easy is that there's no damage! It's absolutely weird coming to FFXIV from an MMO with more conventional healing because damage is tuned so low it's meta that all the healer classes are basically one button DPS classes with OGCD healing utility spells. This has nothing to do with what's possible, it's a specific weird design decision articulated by the devs that they don't want the raid to feel dependent on the skill of the healer to keep them alive. They deliberately de-emphasized healing as a role to make DPS players feel like they have more agency and make newbie healers feel less like they're letting everyone down, but this comes at expense of healers who just don't engage with their role very much and are just sort of there. It's really easy to imagine a version of FFXIV with no healers now, just give everyone OGCD/passive self-healing ablities and let a few classes rez, the game doesn't even really change much.
This is exactly how I have been feeling lately.
I think that you are on with the Summoner comments as well.
I've seen literally 0 people argue to split trickattack/ remove kaiten before they made those changes so it makes it look like you're arguing against fictional characters in your head or something since you never go over why they said they've made those changes, trick attack was probably changed FOR the ultimate because it would make ninja too op for ultimate and they said they changed samurai because they "currently" saw no other way to add to the job or something, like where do you get the idea they made those changes because someone asked them to? I've seen way more people complain about gnb no mercy duration or pld buff lign-up or even whm lilies before they changed them and those didn't (well except lilies just this patch) get changed ever, so why the hell would they split trick attack/ remove kaiten because "people"(literally noone afaik) asked when these other things which get brought up way more took ages/haven't happened
I thought the entire point of the video was nobody did ask for it, also trick attack still works the same, heck it buffed ninja for ultimate since it buffed their dps. He's complaining the devs got rid of part of the jobs kit that was the skill ceiling/ part of its core maximization that wasn't considering a dumb unnecessary part.
As someone who plays melee jobs and likes the combo system, this sort of change is why I hate when people are like make all combos like the GNB cartridge combo. That is an actual skill floor you have to clear to be component, and now that ranged attacks no longer interrupt combos, a pretty easy one. One of my fears for the upcoming DRG changes, the job I take into savage and am the most comfortable with, is that they will take away pieces of that core combo, or simplify Life of the Dragon in some way that makes it less fun. All I really want is for Stardiver to not clip the GCD, but seems like we are going probably lose lance charge because we have two damage buff skills. We also will probably lose Life Surge and just get the effect moved natively to Heaven's Thrust or something.
Personally I'd like to see them give Life of the Dragon another pass, I wasn't a big fan of how it was changed. I will give them making it a trait was nice, but it lacks rewarding complexity for me giving the actual rotation for the class is so rigid. I'm a super casual player and very nervous about touching difficult content with a ten foot pole, so judge what I'm saying based on that, but even us casuals enjoy complexity and feel good when we execute properly. At least some of us. Also leveling as a DRG now and getting your job gauge at level 70 is just weird.
As DRG main who does Sav, I think where life is right now is pretty good. Totally agree on wanting Stardriver to not clip. I used to fuss about the AOEs being line but I do feel like with the scales at 90 and having a full 3 button circle that can blend between single and aoe it all feels consistent and smooth now. I just hope they push one or two of the aoe buttons into earlier content cause old dungeons really feel sad to play.
Losing Lance charge and life surge would be a shame though. I could only see being ok with losing one of those if we got some kind of shield/heal in replacement, which would also be making DRG more like some other DPS so...
That DRG is one of the 3 classes played by the devs makes sense though, you can feel it in their minimal changes. I've always said they should have a multiple teams for classes, including hardcore vs casual testers.
I think the cone AoE change is because of the changed pathfinding and collision detection for the trash packs. They don't stack anymore since Endwalker so hitting them all with a cone is a pain. (The collision detection change also broke the ceiling clip in my house and I will never not be mad about it.)
I think an issue that often goes ignored in discussions about class design is the topic of class aesthetic. Back when Endwalker had just released, I remember watching Stal, a prominent BRD main, voice some scathing remarks about the state of the job in 6.0. One of the arguments she made was, to paraphrase, that "higher DPS is not a good argument, if you wanted to deal more damage you would not be playing ranged DPS, go play a melee." (again, paraphrased. Stal made a lot of good points in that video and this is not a dig at her.) Similarly, during the GNB section, you point out that it's identity is "the busiest tank," and that if you didn't like that, there are other, less busy tanks that can fulfill your desires. However, what both of these points fail to take into account is the *thematic identity* of the classes, their *aesthetic*. I play BRD because I adore characters and classes with bows in nearly any game I play. My main interest is in BRD, and other changes to the class notwithstanding, I *loved* seeing some bigger numbers on my screen after the particularly low point the class (seemed) to be in during SHB. One of my best friends balks at the busyness of GNB, but LOVES the cool aesthetic of the class and plays it (and optimizes it as best he can) anyways. Aesthetic is *important*, and sometimes even more of a deciding factor in why people choose to play certain jobs than playSTYLE or effectiveness. At least, it is for me.
I will not say that this JUSTIFIES poor decision making in regard to class design and changes, but I think it needs to be brought up more often that the only things keeping people on or off a class are not purely gameplay-related. HOW it should be brought up, and what arguments come out of it are things I can't predict for sure, I just think even having the topic of aesthetic as a footnote to consider somewhere is important.
well said
i also often times dont understand for example how some people die the difficulty of play to the "job fantasy"
What now if my basic stuff for all my tanks are near identical? they are still (mostly) visualyl different ant still convey the same job fantasy...
I tried playing WAR and i just cant get into it as a PLD fan, they play similiar enough as tanks, but something about paladins aesthetic itself jsut is more important then playing a "better" class.....(and thsi was during the 6.0 paladin Problem).
If you like a job because its difficult and say its "the job fantasy" then sorry. you dont like the job, you like feeling superior to others
That is again where the problem comes in. What is the point of having different classes if they all play thr same?
Asthetic can only do so much until you realise that they are all reskins. Because you are still playing a game.
Aiming for a good asthetic and gameplay that everybody can get into is the most impossible thing in the world as we are still human.
@@TheCrimsonFacker That's fair to point out, I just really think the importance of aesthetic is *understated specifically in discussions about why people choose to play a class*. Taking issue with the actual design of the class is a totally different issue, and one that I probably can't comment too much on because of how heavily I value the aesthetic. I would play BRD no matter what they did to the class as long as they were an archer lmfao.
Man, I miss HW AST even more now. Just reminds me how healing was exhilarating as a post HW Ast player. It was like freshly delving into elden ring for me.
Pulling that one bole and the action of spreading it to the whole party as a clutch mitigation while ignoring the balance that's sitting in storage was such a power move and I loved it (jk I'd just let the dps die). I miss healers having distinct identities and mechanics. And most of all: I miss my cards and noct sect. why se. . . why?
The fact that miasma bio bane is no longer in the game in any way and especially not on scholar is just sad.
@@ridleyroid9060 Miasma was so much better than spamming that stupid art of war. They honestly should've kept scholar as a dot class.
Yoshi P has gone on record saying something close to this "I want everyone to play my game." This is why the ARR MSQ changed to accommodate solo game players. While that was a nice change and why the skill floor keeps being raised up I'd like him to know of a saying.
"When you make something for everyone, you make something for no one." If you try to accommodate every possible person you will eventually alienate everyone.
I'm still working through msq, I was a lvl 50 ish summoner when it was revamped. I didn't like that my dot was gone, I didn't like that it suddenly felt like everything revolved around bahamut. Nothing wrong with that except I was still leveling and was suddenly confused what my rotation was. When I'd ask, it would be well summon bahamut, enkindle bahamut, and then summon your titans. I had the titans, but I couldn't use them without bahamut. That's a lvl 70 skill. It got better as I got higher level, but it felt like suddenly my class didn't start till way later. It was indeed less fun at the time than it previously had been. I'm at 70 now, I'm pressing more buttons but.. it still feels like it was more fun before.
It feels so good to finally have someone recognize the players that don't care to do progression content but love maximizing their gameplay. I was a Heavensward tank and I felt so good pushing how long I could stay in DPS stance, handling aggro and health alongside my branching paladin rotation, and even playing around with the STR tank meta. Toward the end of it I finally started doing the entry level floors of savage and I loved it, but I didn't care to do the stuff that would require weeks of progression.
I'm so bored now. I still don't want to do progression raiding where you pull for days on end, but the "normal" game is so mindless. Tanks who didn't want to maximize could just stay in tank stance, use their aggro combo over and over, and complete normal content just fine. Why take the interesting parts away from those of us who wanted more?
Love the summoner shout out at the end!!
The removal of conal aoes is so dumb and I'm glad you talked about this. Mobs filling the floor in aoes now means you're kind of SoL to hit all of the pack and losing the movement makes dungeons even more boring. All I say is that I main DRG and I hope they never take away my thrust aoes. Yeah they might miss a mob or two on the side but I'm never cucked out of hitting the pack as a whole.
Also I love your point about people who don't main a job criticizing the way it plays. Obviously there is a fine line and some adjustments can keep old fans of the job happy while making it more open to newer players (Again...DRG animation locks). But when people who barely play a job talk about how they would change it, and it removes the whole identity of the job, they're basically campaigning to take away someone else's joy in FF14. This is why I never want DRG to be 'Meta' and think it's a blessing to be a consistently middle of the pack melee job in RDPS because no one's going to come on it for the numbers and then spam reddit with calls to gut it's identity and rotational feel.
I cant imagine loving a job and, instead of having the jank taken away, they fundamentally change it so much it's unrecognizable. I feel like Bard and Summoner felt this at endwalker and I would never want it to happen to Dragoon.
Yeah, hadn't played SAM in a while and didn't really track every change. Was very disappointed to notice the cone is replaced by a lame circle
Smm definitely, not so much bard. I’m a bard main and smn was my other class that I changed to dark knight in endwalker
But you don't understand, that's the Squenix job design classic:
1. Job has a mechanic that some people love but other people find annoying.
2. Job isn't popular because its had a bunch of scuffed QoL issues (server-tick Monk in 5.0, slow Monk, TK Monk, etc.). Controversial mechanic isn't part of said issues.
3. Squenix refuses to fix QoL issues and bad skills for years.
4. "Maybe I'm out of touch? No. It's the controversial mechanic's fault."
5. Mechanic gets removed, pissing off the community that stuck with the job.
6. People who don't like the job and don't intend on maining it rush in to explain why removing the mechanic will make the job so much more popular.
Now we're just waiting for the last two steps:
7. Job receives a bump in interest initially, then people go back to playing Dragoon or Dancer or whatever.
8. Years later the job is still unpopular, but now its dedicated community is on life support. "How did things with {insert job here} get so bad?"
Don't believe me? Remember Dark Arts or old AST cards? I remember.
what u explain in the last paragraph was exactly what happened to WAR and AST from SB to ShB. first week, i tried to convince myself the card system was just typos, it could not have been obliterated as i eventually accepted it was. been there, quit after ShB, my main jobs were no longer fun :(
yyep, I live in constant fear of that happening to ninja. casuals complain about mudras enough that I'm sure they'll disappear in the next expac or 2 unfortunately. already had the experience once, was planning to switch to smn in endwalker after reclearing tea on it late in shb, but oh boy was I in for a rude surprise. almost quit the game after I hit 90 on it, probably would have if I didn't already have a group lined up. thankfully my old faithful nin got triaged into a usable state when the raid patch dropped so I wasn't miserable for the entire tier, but our raid lead is a bard main and she absolutely despises the changes. among my group 3 of us almost quit because of the job changes on expac release, and that's the opposite reaction you want to have for a launch.
While I personally don't like cone shaped aoes, and would prefer jobs just have circles since it's just less annoying to aim, I completely understand the frustration of "Why did I learn how to do this if you're gonna remove it anyways?"
I never quite thought from that angle and that's honestly probably gonna stick with me.
absolute banger of a video honestly. fantastically well spoken here. really puts to words some feelings about the game that I have had brewing for a while far better than I ever could put it lol.
I miss the monk positionals. Now the job feels boring.
If the content is easy, that doesn't stop you from trying to play the best you can, do healers need to slidecast their DMG cast to kill the boss? No, but they will still do it since that's optimal, that's why I think logs are truly the end content for raiders.
Plus week 1 of new raids if you in a group that doesn't do much DMG or some dies you will die to enrage most fights so you need to be optimal on your rotarion
im so dense i didnt even know they changed sam's cone i've still been weaving in and out of mobs to aim LMFAO
The "you have 18 jobs in this game" bit was a very nice touch, loved that.
I really do wish WHM had more mechanics, especially in dungeons. Playing with friends in level 90 dungeons is kind of boring because your not needed. They're good enough to wall to wall without me healing, so I just stand there and press a single button.
tbh all dungeons are boring spaming aoe damage and aoe heals. some bosses are interesting but thats it
LOL exactly. Thats what its come down to.
imo, the skill floor is pretty low if you understand the jobs rotation, but thats not everyone.
the skill floor is so low its practically underground
In therms of heavensward, I wish I could agree, but... no the game was not at its "Peak" as you call it. Most DPS Check where a problem on Raid Release or maybe 1-2 Weeks following that, afterwards it worked out like every other raid tier we had after heavensward: getting better tomestone gear and slowly powercreeping the enemy's.
Stuff like cleric stance could be nice yes, but it was also the reason why people always complained (many healers included, especially the ones that just started out) how the WHM/SCH let everyone die while he tried to heal damage spikes in cleric stance. Tanks exploding when they refused to swap stances (one of the reasons so many tank players rolled with DRK since he had both active) for tank-buster.
Healers got better scaling for damage spells to deem cleric stance unnecessary and to give healers the freedom to not worry about if there cleric stance is on or not.
And savage raiding was harder back then?... Good joke. Alexander was the only raid tier I actually did the entire thing and no.. It wasn't harder. And that comes from the guy with not much playtime in the evening who was not really "that good" since I still learned this entire Ff14 thing and how gear/stats work (I'm probably not better today)
If even, Alexander is from what I got to hear from the Bahamut raiders that Alexander was the more casual friendly approach to raiding and they experimented on coils already on how to implement things. (I take their word, since I can't proof it since I didn't raid Bahamut)
Making the player jumping through extra hoops is not increasing the skill ceiling, just because we had more buttons to press dosnt mean it took more skill. it wasn't even fun in the first place. For every healer DPS whore that misses the stance, I can show you 50 who prayed to god that this garbage finally was driven out.
Ask the MCH playerbase during heavensward how those extra hoops where fun and how they had to optimize to the limit to just keep up with other DPS classes, and even at there best they where just "good" in therms of dmg output, it was just a rly rly bad designed class.
And as a "part time" healer player you have no idea how thankful I am to not see tanks exploding from 100% HP to Zero on a tank-buster anymore because he refuses to activate his def stance or is wearing his fucking melee DPs heavenward trinkets in SB because "they have STR on it" while Susano oneshots him with an honest smile on his face.
I watched a few of your videos, i can agree on some points, but in this video you sound like someone who is fed up with this game and should consider just stoping if you are unhappy and feel unchallenged.
Sadly, most of this point you made sound like the stuff a vanilla World of Warcraft player states: back then the game was (put here any gameplay element) so much better than it is today, and it was more punishing (keep telling that to yourself) and raids were so much harder (no)
Sry but i think nostalgia is playing tricks on you like on every World of War - FINAL FANTASY 14 "Veteran"
I can also tell you that if FF14 would go the classic server route like WOW, it only takes a few days (if not a few hours after Alex opens up) until Alexander savage is on farm for most statics
Greetings from the guy who started at the end of ARR (didn't raid Bahamut sadly) and cleared Alex 1-12 Savage with his static of beginner raiders that consisted of workers/parents/evening players (also called casuals in most areas.. and we still are i guess... adulting sucks ._. )
Edit: I see this comment actually got some attention, trust me, I didn't write this stuff in bad intention and I'm not sitting here in anger I just share here my opinion as someone who was "there". But he is not the first that brings up the "back then everything was better" stuff. Nostalgia is a bitch.
I saw videos like that in WoW more than enough, I can give him only the same advice I give everyone that is unhappy with a game or how it evolves: unsub and search your fix somewhere else.
Good example of single player games with huge skill ceilings that don't require any physical ability are Paradox map simulators like Europa Universalis 4. You can play them for thousands of hours and skill find out new shit.
17:39 to 18:18
huh, this REALLY reminds me of a CERTAIN weapon I've mained for years in a certain franchise about hunting monsters, that recently got DRASTICALLY changed, to be almost unrecognizable as the same weapon while keeping the same aesthetic. For what reason is such a change being done, when there is no reason to appeal to more people because there is a plethora of other extremely unique weapons to choose from???
I miss the doot horn too brother. Rise took it away.
There’s a lot of similar sentiments between MH and FFXIV both becoming easier over time in favor of less experienced players. There’s a vicious cycle of “elitists” vs. “casuals” too, and it’s always funny to see the old casuals become the new elitists every time a new MH game/FFXIV expansion releases
as a 5th fleeter who mained horn all through world even when people told me it was shit, i feel this in my bones. I was devastated when horn was changed for rise and I hope it goes back to normal in the next entry.
I thought you were talking about baby mode longsword before I realized you meant horn
SE is obsessed with fairness. They HATE it if 2 samurais (or whatever class) has a large gap between 2 players with the same gear due to skill differences. This is why everything constantly gets simplified. BLM seems to be the only class immune to it and I think we all know why that is.
Had to pause the video when you mentioned Food Chain Magnate . . . never thought I'd hear someone mention that in a non-board game space
While I agree on everything said of the things said here I'm going to have to respectfully disagree on aggro management for tanks. The only thing stance dancing served to so was punish the player for holding aggro my nerfing thier damage but increasing aggro rate. While it was purposeful in heavensward, it's existence was rendered moot in stormblood with the introduction of shirk. Its why for a good minute i was frustrated with PLD during shadowbringers becuase despite the removal of that god awful waste of button pressing I was still being punished for tanking. Good complexity is not more buttons. Good complexity is learning and creating ways to make buttons work together to get high dopamine. It's why I got so pissed that AST was loosing the funny rng and cool effects of its cards in place of "it just increases damage". instead of what I would of proposed was to add a card combo effect when ever two or more cards on the feild creating a cascading effect for the party. For example Balance + Bowl = special party buff. your not adding buttons but your adding more complexity to a job with the tool you already have.
Edit: rewatched to the end and you basically made my point but much better. Gdi.
Aggro management was just a little gimmick, DPS had skills to reduce their aggro so you never had to stance juggle unless you're playing with the hardest casuals out there or your gear was just bad.
spot on. i've recently returned to the game and picked up SAM where I left off. as a dirty rotten filthy casual, i'm ignoring much of the functionality. there are way too many buttons and having 3 mechanics (sen, the sword gauge thingy, and the mediate thingy) makes me really just concentrate on sen, partially ignore kenki, and totally ignore that third mechanic. i used to try to excel in games but now i just want to have a beer and enjoy them. work is for RL, not leisure.
I think I saw a video like this coming after the last one, and I couldn't disagree vehemently enough, honestly. As a new player I already have harumphed and groused about having to add a third hotbar as progression added more buttons, but after adjusting I think most classes are honestly fine. The long, long rotation of many unique buttons is a peeve of mine and the whole "Press this then that unless this dot isn't up in which case press this other thing" formula is why I tuned out of WoW. In the last video, I think the thing that made me grit my teeth most was the mention of healers pulling aggro if they overhealed. I completely avoided FF11 due to tales of things like Absolute Virtue and not being able to solo anything, I avoided FF14 until recently despite friends gushing about things like Thordan and Kefka and how nostalgic it is, and I'd probably quit the game if they did what you want.
I'm all down for encounter difficulty, I enjoy doing old raids with stats and numbers sync'ed down. Screw job difficulty.
As far as skill ceilings and wasting lots and lots of hours into a game, it's just another form of grind. There's lots of other games, and I'm glad the developers realize that. Too many developers use skill ceilings as an abusive way to keep people invested entirely in their game or their line of products and wall them away from the rest of the industry. I prefer to see everything there is to see in a video game in a reasonable amount of time so I can then buy the next one, but MMOs sometimes draw the opposite person who just wants to buy one video game which can be the be-all, end-all of gaming so that they never feel pressure to buy new titles or upgrade their hardware until That One Game demands it of them. I can't imagine anything more boring.
Also, some of these issues could be avoided if people could actually try out a class at max level without having to go through the work of leveling it. People don't want to pick up PLD or WAR over GNB because they don't want to start at level 1 with no idea if they'll like it. Since "people liking the job" is such an important factor here, let's admit there's a ton of time wasted before people find out whether or not they actually like the damn job since ability sync means most people won't know what they're in for.
I think the majority of the playerbase agrees with you.
This man is painting a story that doesn't add up.
A story where FF14 has been degrading since Stormblood, when it is exactly the opposite.
A story where Endwalker was a controversial update, even if, in reality it was an astounding success.
The game is fine.
The direction they're taking it is totally fine.
I guess not everyone can be happy, but this is just a small internet echo chamber.
The game is fine.
They really should move into WoW.
It is really the game this people want, and it already exists.
imagine being wrong
Man I played SMN from ARR ~ SHB
and I really. really hope they don't do Endwalker SMN to other classes LOL
I still keep doing positionals on mnk till now because they changed the one thing i enjoyed about mnk :(
Dw you're not the only one
I like to pretend it never changed too. But I know I'm just lying to myself deep down :(
Your gunbreaker example is perfect because that busy nature is what i love about it