I was a Cradle new order mass Catholic that felt like it didn't matter because we were not taught catechism like the council of trent. I didn't go to mass for over 20years and believed the priests were NO different than the rest of us so why bother with confession. I was never taught about a state of Grace. I was not taught much at all. That is all thanks to the new order mass. Praise be to God. The Holy Spirit started me on a path to learning what I was never taught and now I have been going to TLM at sspx for 5 months and I continue to learn more everyday and passing on what I learn to others and my children. I know I am not the only one that has a similar story. God bless
I went to Fr Robinson for confession last year. He helped me keep from totally losing my gord over the communist take over of America. I appreciate him so much.
The NO mass here is horrible, I told my SSPX confessor that I just can’t stand to go to the NO Mass, He said that I f I were to go to the NO I may just lose my soul. So I attend SSPX when I am able, it is 2 hours away and I am 75 years old. This reinforces what my confessor told me. Thank you
Jean: That is really scary. I went to the TLM and NO when I couldn't go anywhere else. I'm going to start going to the SSPX this Sunday. I didn't know the NO could actually damage your faith. My Rosaries are probably what's saved me. 🙏
@@sweetcaroline2060 Jeanne's confessor is absolutely right! As a Catholic you can't fulfill your Sunday obligation with a protestant-like service. The novus ordo church is afflicted with the V2 errors, means there are not Catholic! If you have no problem with the errors of Vat.2 just stay with the novus ordo or similiar groups. It's not just the TLM that makes you Catholic, but the FAITH. Novus ordo ppl do not believe what the SSPX(recognize&resist) believe or CMRI or SSPV. There are big differences! So one should learn the Catholic faith pre V2!!! e.g. Catechism "Trent", "Spirago", my playlist "Baltimore Catechism", L. Ott, "Fundamentals of Catholic dogma". Active participation in a heretical service(e.g. NOM) would be a mortal sin for Catholics! Another problem(novus ordo, FSSP,...) is that "priests" ordained by a (novus ordo)"bishop" consecrated in the new(invalid!) rite of ordination are no priests at all. So stay away! SSPV & CMRI and (almost all) SSPX have valid priests ordained in the old rite by a bishop consecrated in the old rite. They also spend their sacraments in the old(valid!) rite. So coming from the novus ordo pls consider that your sacraments(confessions, communion, confirmation) received in the n.o. are probably invalid.
@@angelaa.4254 how do you know that the sacraments at a NO parish are invalid? Are you Jesus Christ? Far more learned people than you or I have stated that the NO mass is valid as are its sacraments. Don't make judgements when you don't know what you're talking about. That job belongs to Our Savior Jesus Christ.
Yes that's what happened to me. Growing up with Novus Ordo Mass and no instruction about the Faith. Around age 22 sitting in Mass, constantly bored with it, I decided to leave to try find God myself. I was led unknnowingly by Satan into every false religion for decades until God's Grace woke me up one day out of the blue. He told me through a mental awareness all religions except His belong to Satan and brought me back to the Church - SSPX. I'd never seen the Tridentine Mass before - it transformed me. I've been learning the Faith for the first time - doing what's right. I've never been happier in my entire life. God is truly so very kind and good.
There are many cathequesis and conferences about the crisis in Spanish. The FSSPX was founded in Switzerland by a French Archbishop, not in the United States. They've got priests all over the world, obviously in Spanish speaking countries too.
I need to receive Our Lord’s Body. As long as it’s a valid consecration I will continue to attend the Novus Ordo. I’d prefer the SSPX TLM, but none close by. I’m a pre-Vat II Catholic. Graduated HS a year before the NO was forced on us.
I returned to the Church after several years in the new age and occult and now belong to a NO parish. I love the beautiful church and generous pastors but am beginning to develop an understanding of the issues with the NO - largely because of this series. I'm even beginning to wonder if I would have hung onto my faith and stayed in the Church if I'd had this deeper understanding years ago. I will never know. But I am beyond grateful for this series - and very excited to recently find out that there is an SSPX chapel in my own small town!
So so thankful for the SSPX and all the amazing priests! I truly believe we’re going to see a rise in the attendance of people with us who turn away from the modern church.
Joseph van Haren Thank you Father Robinson . I was privileged to meet Father Robinson a good number of years ago when father used to drive 8 hours from Sydney to the North Coast offer Mass and hear Confession for small number of Catholics , I was also privileged to have father stay at my house on his travels several times.God Bless you Father Robinson.
Thank you for the information Father. My husband is the only one left since his brother died, that goes to any Catholic Mass. Out of his eight siblings. So sad.
It would be wonderful to see an interview with some of the Sisters associated with the SSPX.The Dominican teaching sisters,SSPX sister and Franciscan Sisters from Kansas City.Please consider it!
Father, your hard line is inappropriate. The flaws you mention represent outlier circumstances. There so few Latin Mass opportunities in America vs the NO Masses. If those NO priests are validly ordained, the Eucharist is confected and no matter what the priest says in his homily, the communicant is receiving Our Lord.
@@jacquelinezurawski2230 The priest has to intend to consecrate. If they don’t believe in the Eucharist, they cannot intend. Also, going to mass isn’t about receiving the Eucharist, it’s about worshipping God. If the priest is giving out heresy, you could be poisoned unto death, and if you know that heresy will, happen you sin by putting yourself in an occasion of sin.
I am a Cradle Catholic born in the 1960's in Austria. If my mother (who was lucky grewing up with the traditional mass) would not have insisted in attending the (novus ordo) mass every sunday, we children would have never had a mass, First Communion or Confirmation for there was no possibility to go to a traditional mass in the whole town when we grew up. Now that there is the possibility to attend the traditional mass I am doing so. Even if it takes me 1 hour to get there. My late mother always taught us, that this is the right way to worship God. So in my opinion, if there is no other possibility you have to attend a novus ordo mass in person. The Holy Spirit is working his way as long as you are right minded and learning and searching the Truth.
I can understand a little why, in the sixties, mainline Protestants 'might' be more inclined to convert if some elements of the Faith were obscured, but I can tell you from my fundamentalist background, when I decided to convert to the Novus Ordo it did not help at all. I wanted the Old Time Religion of All Time. I got so many excuses, reform of the reform, hermeneutic of continuity. It has taken me another twenty years to get here, to the Society, finally.
I'm a Novus Ordo era Catholic as most of us are but recently I've started attending the traditional Latin mass. I have only had the opportunity to participate in 3 low masses but what an eye opener! We have had our history, traditions and spiritual treasures stolen from us by the heretic modernists. It is such a travesty that this has been allowed to happen. But there is still hope and it comes in the form of groups like the SSPX, the FSSP, the ICKSP etc, who teach and practice the true mass and faith. One day the NO will just be a footnote in Catholic history and the TLM will be the only mass celebrated.
The NO mass started when I was a kid. My Mom didn't like it at all and said it Protestantized the Catholic Church. I am starting to go to the TLM, but this Sunday I'm convinced I need to go to the SSPX. I've felt for a long time that the NO was not right but didn't have a choice to do otherwise. I never participated in the shenanigans of the that mass, especially the ever-popular "kiss of peace " which actually, is optional and I've had to say the prayer to St. Michael on my own eventhough the Priests were ordered by the Bishop to say it. I don't have much more time on this earth and my first duty is to God, then myself. It's probably ONLY by the grace of God that my faith hasn't diminished. And, the BVM has kept me safe from heresies by my recitation of the Rosary -- at least one a day. So, thank you, Fr. Robinson for the clear answers you've given us on this.🙏
@Blackwood when the novus ordo was fabricated in the mid 1960s, 7 or so protestant ministers were enlisted to help rid the Mass of anything that might offend their sensibilities. Among other things, references to the BVM were greatly reduced, a table replaced the altar, the priest faced the people instead of turning East, toward God, and perhaps most significantly, the focus on the Mass shifted from the great sacrifice at Calvary to a fraternal supper of sorts. In other words, it became man-centered or protestantized.
Some of us do not have any traditional Mass in our town. The closest Traditional Mass is 4-6 HOURS AWAY. This makes it hard and almost in possible to attend the Traditional Mass.
We face the same problem, theclosest is 6 hours awat from us, Iam in the process of becoming Catholic and I cant afford financially to attend latin mass so what Am I suppose to do????🤔😭
Another great episode. You might wish to expand on the alternatives for those who do realize the illicit nature of the N.O. but have no recourse for the Tridentine Mass in their area. I am lucky that there is a Diocesan Tridentine Mass offered across the state line that I can attend. Were it not for that, my only option would be to drive over 40 miles one way to the nearest SSPX, St. Anthony of Padua. Many do not have an option.
@@lilyw.719 One has to be careful with diocesan Masses due to what is said from the pulpit. Most diocesan priests have been taught the Modernist heresy in seminary and thus teach it regularly. My family attended diocesan Masses until a couple of years ago and we were so shocked that we had accepted Modernist views without knowing it. It’s being taught everywhere. I imagine other traditional orders are probably safe in that way, but even many FSSP priests tell the faithful that attending SSPX Masses is a mortal sin. It’s really frustrating!
@@lilyw.719 They are a bit more nuanced than that. It really comes down to the formation that the priests receive. Some of these priests in diocesan masses are bumbling their way through the Latin since they were never taught the TLM, saying unorthodox things in the pulpit that are often more focused on conservative politics than the actual Catholic faith and will often promote the Novus Ordo along with their traditional mass. Once you accept that the Novus Ordo is a serious departure from the true faith should be and that it should be avoided, it really just comes naturally that being around priests who are mixing in this New Theology with the true faith or promoting the Novus Ordo is an occasion for scandal and sin. In regards to priests who believe the true faith, criticize the modernism of today and don't promote the Novus Ordo at all. Those priests aren't going to be diocesan priests for much longer outside of maybe a few dioceses. www.lifesitenews.com/news/priest-blogger-bishops-send-conservative-priests-to-psych-hospitals-for-dep But sometimes they do this and will be given a strange limbo status by their bishop or sent to the backwoods of the diocese, sometimes those poor priests become "independent chapel" priests which is a dangerous road. But in those circumstances, yes the priests that I have found do say it is fine to go to them. As for FSSP priests. I also wonder how many priests would remain in their position if they publically said "Our Bishop doing this ecumenical meeting is scandalous and wrong" or said, "Don't go to to the New Mass" or how about if they disobeyed their Bishop who refuses to give baptisms to Protestant converts who were invalidly baptized or disobeyed their bishop who demands that even the FSSP not give communion on the tongue (Yes that's happening in Canada). Once we start getting into the particulars the SSPX position becomes a little more clear. Don't take a mildly orthodox/conservative bishop for granted. Sooner or later he will retire and James Martin will come in, and then it will make sense why the SSPX say what they say.
I go to the SSPX Mass here in Australia. Thank God every day that you have to merely cross a nearby state line for your Diocesan TLM. The SSPX would advise you to “be weary” like the above person in the comments said; but they would most certainly tell you to drive, drive, drive there and support that local priest!
It is very difficult to have spent the first 30 years of life attending (relatively reverent, back then) Novus Ordo Masses and, though I have long had a sense of lack at the N.O. that drove me to Tradition, living in the idea that that’s just how the Church is, and that the N.O. is OK, and that Mass is obligatory, period, so one must attend the N.O. if it’s the only one around… It is frightening to face this information and the responsibility, as Father says, of turning away from the N.O. if one comes to recognize and acknowledge it as an injustice to God. It was very difficult just now to form the thought that it could be an injustice to God and type that out. I believe that God did work through good priests and the Sacraments, even the Novus Ordo versions, to help me through spiritually difficult times. It’s difficult to think that it could be so wrong. It almost sounds like this argument implies that it’s inherently evil, but how could that be? (Maybe I’m stretching the argument farther than it is intended at that point, though…) It seems (feels, I think) impossible that this could be true. It makes it very difficult to intellectually assent to the assertion because of the implications. It is difficult in the first place to think that the hierarchy could impose this on us. It is all very difficult.
Prayers. Well, consider St. Peter who denied Jesus Christ three times! And had to be corrected by St. Paul about including Gentiles! So yes, the hierarchy can definitely mess up, & be overly influenced by humanism. Please read Open Letter to Confused Catholics. Even Pooe Benedict Emeritus recently wrote that humanists tried to take over Vatican II & influenced the post Conciliar Documents. Pray the traditional rosary daily & Our Lady will help you.
My family lives in a place where the closest TLM is 4 hours away and the closest Novus Ordo is within walking distance, yet sometimes we will miss Mass on Sundays because we refuse to go to the NO
We drive an hour to attend Latin Sunday mass, my only option for first fridays, first Saturdays, weekday mass and holy days are novus ordo mass, there aren’t any Latin masses anywhere near me. We don’t even have a Latin parish, a priest travels for us to have a Latin mass.😔believe me ... I long for daily Latin mass, but it’s not possible. Luckily we were able to get our second grader first holy communion in Latin mass and just recently 2 older kids confirmed in the SSPX in St. Louis!!!! It was beautiful!!!
All I can say is the NO mass was a impediment to my faith. The way the faith was watered down by liturgical abuse and homilies that endorsed modernism and the extreme lack of respect for the Holy Eucharist made my head spin and my heart sink.
@@blackwood3243 IE. That it doesn't mater whether you believe in Christ, Mahoma, Buda or nothing, just be good feel good, and you go to heaven type of crap against the faith.
I have a quick question for father or anyone who can answer. I have recently left the NO for tradition, but my family finds it very upsetting that I do not wish to attend the NO mass once in a while. I do not blame them for this since the NO mass encourages the feeling the you are attending mass for community. I can see how for my parents this seems like I am not attending because I wish to be a part of a different community, not because I wish to truly worship god as he deserves. I have tried to explain this perspective to them, but they struggle to see the truth and still feel as if it is wrong for me to not attend mass with them for days like mothers/Father’s Day, Christmas, Easter, etc. While it just doesn’t feel right to attend a NO mass now, part of me wonders if it would still be okay to attend one on these occasions with them if I also attend a traditional mass that day. Let me know what I should do in this circumstance. Thank you!
At 24:18 Fr. talks about attending NO Mass for social obligations but not actually participating (worshipping). That would be what you could do in your situation, unless your family is insistent you do every bit of the Mass to worship with them.
Great series...rich and demanding our concentration. Following it in NZ where the nearest Latin Mass i know of is 50+ km away and the nearest SSPX chapel 80km...
I converted to the Catholic Church via the Novus Ordo Mass, and was quite happy for about a decade. Then I was introduced to the Traditional Latin Mass via the FSSP . I’m so sad that I’m basically forced to attend the Novus Ordo due to lack of Traditional Latin Mass available in my area. Both the SSPX and the FSSP have parishes in my Archdiocese, but both are still almost a two hour drive one way…….
I would appreciate if the SSPX would link all of their sources for their positions on the NO mass in the description of their videos, I think it's only fair to the listener if you're going to make the claims you do about the NO.
Probably so. There can be no priests without bishops and the 3 bishops do not live forever. It would be nice if Rome approves the consecration this time but if they don't, it doesn't really matter, the situation we're living in is much worse than the situation when Archbishop Lefebvre consecrated 4 bishops. We are backed up by Canon law and the whole tradition of the Church.
Maria Orestes I want to start attending the SSPX Mass. been with the NO for a lot of years, but started learning the truth of it all and quit going. And with covid, hubby is 71 I’m 66 so we feel we’ll wait until we’re comfortable in crowds again to start attending SSPX. We’re blessed to have a chapel nearby. Thanks Fr. for this wonderful podcast.
Over the years (I'm 72 yo) I was an off & on Mass attendee. Many other Catholics, like myself, were totally ignorant of why this "on & off" behavior. One guy suggested that the Church decreed that missing Mass wasn't a mortal sin any longer Others blamed themselves for their diminishing faith & lost the desire to even discuss it. We were pre-teens in 1962. Yah know, what Vatican II did to my generation of Catholics was nothing (although it was devastating) compared to how very insidiously and subtly they brought the next 2! Generations of Catholics into submission and ignorance. God has control over this. His infinite wisdom I trust. I can maintain self-control & be in peace knowing all will end well, but not without STRUGGLE. 3 generations of poor souls will be vindicated. I'd discovered SSPX only a few months ago, & now that my self control has returned I am proactive as opposed to reactive. There may be a great apostasy unfolding but there's a greater awaiting of God's faithful. My Sincere appreciation to all SSPX staff especially the Priests. I'm praying for all of us but focused on SSPX Priests.
I must comment. I received my formation from Opus Dei. And the priests celebrate the Novus Ordo mass and the Tridentine Mass with deep reverence with the idea celebrate the new mass with the reverence and spirituality of the old. In fact the priest who gave me much spritual formation while he celebrates both actually recommended the SSPX tridentine mass when it was forbidden in my diocese. For daily mass I go to the Opus Dei center and I can see how the Tridentine Mass nourishes the Novus Ordo mass only if the priests says the Tridentine Mass. Also in the Opus Dei center I go to communion is only done on the tongue and kneeling. I will go only to Tridentine Mass on Sunday, but for daily mass I go to a Novus Ordo Mass that is celebrated reverently . Thank God the priests of Opus Dei celebrate both forms.
The NO does not immolate (kill for sacrifice); it brings present the past event of Calvary. There is a difference. Please get a copy of the 1829 facsimile of the Catechism of the Council of Trent.
I am very sympathetic to the Society's position. One question: who confers "liceity" upon a thing? Or is it rather a series of specific actions in each circumstance that determine its liceity in this context (of the situation of the Novus Ordo Mass)? I guess my question is: does the Pope and/or Bishops have the "power" to rule that something is "licit" which devalues the faith? Thank you for your distinctions re: subjective dispositions of the faithful as opposed to the objective situation of the Mass itself.
I think when we say “licit” in the SSPX we are speaking about morality. For us to say offering Mass according to this defective rite is not licit, we are saying it is not morally good. We may seem to arrogate too much authority to ourselves in judging so, but in truth we are responsible for our our souls and those of our faithful, so we are bound to judge whether a course of action is allowable or not. A thing could be illicit by reason of the action itself, or circumstances or a bad intention. I don’t think licit is primarily a canonical term: if canon law provides for/permits of something, it is because that thing is morally permissible. So for an authority to just impose “liceity” on something bad sounds a lot like nominalism, voluntarism and abuse of authority to me. In principle yes, in ordinary times, you would be morally certain your bishop and the pope were correct in judging things licit or otherwise. Alas, these times are far from ordinary… In Christ, Fr Paul Franks
@@SSPX Thank you so much, Father, for taking the time to respond. This is exactly the clarification I was hoping for. I can say without reservation that I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment.
I think the SSPX is overstepping on this one. I agree with a lot of their critiques of the Novus Ordo but telling people they can stay home if they can't get to a TLM is an overstep of authority. They have no authority to dispense with the Sunday obligation. They would say they are not "dispensing" as such but giving advice based on Catholic principles but it's only their opinion.
It's true that they have no authority to dispense the Sunday obligation. And they don't dispense anyone. They did give advice based on Catholic principles. SSPX priests are serious folks, they are perfectly aware of what they are saying. They know perfectly well that one day they will have to answer to God all the advices they have given. Every answer they give has been carefully considered, and this one is not an exception.
The Sunday obligation is to keep Sunday holy. Spiritual Communion during a livestream Mass can be very powerful. NO mass has no immolation (kill for sacrifice). It only brings the past event into present consciousness. It is a memorial meal & not a Sacrifice. Luther won.
@@elisehougesen6871 No Catholic that has an ounce of care or understanding about the Catholic faith thinks that the NO mass is a mere meal, so called "NO Catholics" are taught that it is a true sacrifice that takes place.
Raised Evangelical, became Anglocatholic as an adult: Roman vestments, ad orientem, basically the TLM in classical English, then finally I entered the Church through RCIA at a local parish. I attended the NO Mass for two years and finally had to leave. It was terrible liturgical vomit. I have not attended Mass in 8 years and will not attend a NO Mass by choice again. The SSPX do not come to small rural areas with low population numbers, so unless I want a 6 hour round trip it is out of the question. I went on a retreat in Shawinigan a decade ago and it was wonderful, but again, until the TLM is available in small town Canada what am I supposed to do?
Where are you located? I moved to a small-town rural area in Manitoba and the only TLMs are in Winnipeg and basically it's one 9am mass at a diocesean parish and the SSPX. It's around a 6-7 round-trip. Recently, I learned that the SSPX in Winnipeg will do masses in other parts of Manitoba and on the border of Saskatchewan. There would be one that I could attend that would be 2 hours away once a month during the summer. I too entered the church recently and attended NO mass for around 1.5 years. I don't think I can bring myself to attend and even my non-Catholic husband thinks it's strange how the church is only filled with old people and women and how their kids left the faith. I brought up some issues with the priest during RCIA with him how I desired orthodoxy but he didn't seem to grasp why young people were not attracted to the faith and that donations are falling every year. I think petitioning the SSPX to make more masses available to people especially to the rural areas (I moved here to be with my husband since we wanted to raise our kids away from the degeneracy that's in the cities and to have an honest living). I'm sorry about your situation and I sympathize.
In the part of the Philippines that I live in, Catholics have no choice but attend the New Mass which as far as I remember is the only Mass local Catholics here attend to in their entire life from cradle to grave. Traditional Mass is alien to us. Pray for us.
There are parts in pH which have TLM from SSPX, coming from NO I can only say pray for it and ask Our God Father, Lord Jesus Christ and Blessed Virgin Mary to guide you and give it to you...and he will lead you...it takes a sacrifice but if you're asking is for the good of your soul...I'm sure 😊 your prayers will be answered just don't give up... +++ Deo Gratias
I'm from North of Philippines... We have infrequent TLM masses here... One hour away... Praying for you to have TLM in your place... Praying for you and the whole Philippines that there will be more TLM masses and that there will be holy priests and bishops🙏
Thanks for this video. My one issue with this position is how is Fr able to say, with a seemingly very high degree of confidence, that the NO Mass is Illicit and displeasing to God? I could certainly understand the argument that the new Mass is much less pleasing to God than the traditional Mass for all the reasons stated in the video, but definitively saying the new mass is illicit seems to be a stretch.
Great question! I think you can identify this in a few ways. 1. By the ceremonies surrounding the Novus Ordo not promoting the actual sacrifice going on, for example, the offertory being merely a Jewish prayer before meals, practically all mentions of sacrifice being taken away, the mentions of sin, speaking in the vernacular, and distinguishing the sins of the priest and the layman are removed, etc. This can also be found in the real presence, seeing how the Novus Ordo actually says "He will come again" after the consecration is complete, and the removal of several genuflections. A good document to read is the Council of Trent's condemnation of errors on the mass. Here it "anathematizes" or condemns certain ideas. I would suggest reading this and asking yourself "Does the Novus Ordo have anything in it that would make you think any of these ideas are wrong?" In fact, the Novus Ordo actually does many of the things condemned here, which isn't heresy, but it suggests that those things are actually right. www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/newmass/trent.htm 2. The New Mass is not a "received" Rite from our fathers. This is a pretty simple one. How can we trust a rite that was constructed? The Church has no infallibility when it comes to things that weren't in the deposit of faith that Our Lord and the Apostles delivered to us. The Traditional mass has roots in the Apostles themselves, the rite that St. Peter celebrated was close to the Traditional Mass, it's developed over time, but fundamentally it's the same mass. The one that Pope Saint Gregory the Great over 1000 years ago would have been nearly identical. The Novus Ordo? Nearly identical to the Anglican Protestant Mass 1.bp.blogspot.com/-PK4hVqbmqv8/XgpsdLTnhtI/AAAAAAAABkg/xci3TC3ADFcSOefIBjjPaAFyI80u3Ua4QCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/ComparisonOfTridentineCranmer%2Band%2BNovusOrdo.png 3. The fruits of the New Mass. How many extraordinary Saints have been made by the New Mass? All of even the modern ones that were truly extraordinary grew up with the Traditional Mass. Even if you want to count John Paul II and Mother Theresa as being extraordinary, they still grew up with the Traditional Mass. How many have been made by the Traditional Mass? Practically all of them. Now, how many people have left the faith because they weren't taught the reverence, love, and respect for the things in the Church by the mass? As Father mentioned, 2/3 of Catholics leave the Church. More than that don't even know what the real presence is. How can a truly good mass have such worthless fruits? Even when the Novus Ordo is celebrated "reverently" it has the same problems because it doesn't promote the sacrifice as it should and all the fruits come from when the priest imitates the Traditional Mass, instead of from the Novus Ordo itself. For more reading, I would suggest reading Michael Davies' book "Cranmer's Godly Order" angeluspress.org/products/cranmers-godly-order Cardinal Ottaviani's critical study of the New Mass www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/newmass/intervention.htm and this small little pamphlet www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/newmass/latinmass.htm Again we have to ask ourselves, "Is the Novus Ordo really providing us what the mass should provide us? Does it live up to the obligation that we owe to God to participate in his Holy Sacrifice?" I think we then will come to find that the answer is no. God bless you!
Half measures avail us nothing. Shout from the roof tops until your Pastor/ Bishop starts saying the Latin Mass at your Church. Stand up! Take control! It took us five years but we got it done at my local N. O. Church. None the less I drive past it for the Society Mass on a Traditional Altar
That has gotten us nowhere in the Boise diocese. They put an FSSP parish in northern Idaho to compete with the SSPX priory there, but refuse to have a diocesan Latin Mass more than once a month in the Boise area (7 hours away from the priory). Requests, having over 300 people attend monthly Latin Masses, and various meeting with the bishop have yielded nothing. The SSPX is our only alternative here, especially since the catechesis for children in all of the diocesan parishes here is nightmarish.
Hello. If I may, although I agree almost 100% with all the Society's positions (and accept their validity and all such things), I find the positon that we have a perpetual dispensation from NOs too much like a schismatic position (e.g., sedes). NOs are horrible, of course, and I should like to the attend none if possible, but it seems like were I to teach my children that NOs are not to be attended (or even *sinful* to attend) it would be like raising them in a church that is not the Church, but a smaller, better church. Yet I must raise them as Catholic and emphasize the unity of "the Church", which although in crisis remains fundamental in unity. Anyway, I think this position is basically the FSSP's (although I doubt the formation of the ecclesia Dei communities were because of any particular commitment to the NO), yet I fear that they will soon be gone. Anyway, I mostly just wanted to ask if someone with this position, that the NO is bad, to be avoided, but still licit, could or should attend SSPX chapels or if they should be avoided, as I don't agree 100% with them.
We certainly don’t require that you share our assessment of the New Rite in order to assist at Mass / receive sacraments. And you have the right to the traditional Mass and sacraments, in virtue of your baptism, so I would say you’re good to go. In Christ, Fr Franks
22:37 How do we parse out the multiple confounding factors that could have led to this outcome? After VII, the hierarchy both stopped teaching the traditional faith and promulgated the New Mass: how can we say with confidence that the New Mass caused the loss of faith and not the failure to teach the faith (by other means)?
I attend the sspx chapel, and think that this is the boat of Christ to be at the storm, but I dont share this point of viev. For example why I should not take comunion if I attend NO mass fot social reason?? if it is given in proper way on knees and tongue. it seems strange for me because it is a Christ himself how can I be at mass and be in state which allow to me to receive communion, and not take it ??
Was it valid before Benedict XVI changed back the form of the consecration of the wine? If it was valid, why was it changed back? Doesnt a wrong form make it invalid? Thank you for the reply.
When I was new to the SSPX I was also a bit surprised about this stance. I even thought it was too extreme LOL. Not just Fr. Robinson, but every SSPX priest would tell you the same thing: "do not go to the NO Mass". Each of them actually made a decleration around their ordinations, in which they promise to never celebrate the NO and never advise anyone to go to the NO.
Hey I live in a part of the country (USA) with many people, many Catholics, and many who desire the Latin Mass, but no access to any Latin mass within 4 hours drive. I sent the sspx an “SOS” over email a few months ago but have not heard anything back, is there anything we can do?
How is the New Mass less pleasing if it's still the actual body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ? It's still the same identical sacrifice of Calvary being offered, which *in itself*, is always pleasing because it's the one sacrifice. But that says nothing of how efficacious it is for those who participate in the offering.
One analogy is crowning a king with a baseball cap instead of a precious crown. Is he still the king? Sure. Is it appropriate to his dignity? No. Does it diminish your trust / respect in him? Yes. Therefore the baseball cap is an obviously bad choice.
@@SSPX how can the Church promulgate something which harmful for the souls of the faithful? Isn't that anathematized in Trent: -"If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema."? I'm asking in good faith, trying to understand the SSPX's position better
@@silvinho5860 An SSPX priest answered this question in the comment thread to this video: ua-cam.com/video/IvILoep8yq4/v-deo.html. He said "we interpret this canon just as the other acts of the Magisterium that were discussed in the podcast. These pronouncements refer to the Church’s traditional rites and vestments; not necessarily to any novelty that is imposed on the Church. The infallibility of liturgical laws is, at least ordinarily, to be sought in their continuity with the past (by analogy with the OUM) rather than in the mere fact of their being promulgated for the universal Church. If the latter were sufficient to guarantee infallibility, this would raise all liturgical legislation to the level of the solemn or extraordinary magisterium, making each rubric into a kind of definition of faith-which is indeed a pious belief, but not necessarily well founded, and it does not hold up well under the light of evidence. St. Peter Canisius distinguishes dogmas of the faith, which must be believed under pain of heresy, from truths accepted by the faithful and sanctioned by the practice of the Church, which it would be “rash” to deny; and finally liturgical truths, or truths expressed by the public worship of the Church, “whose authority continues to increase as the teachers of the Church go corroborating them with more interest and as they go penetrating into the convictions of the faithful” (cf. Fr. Manuel Pinto, S.J.O’Valor Teologico da Liturgia [“The Theological Value of the Liturgy”], pp. 296-297, cited in Silveira’s study). It is clear from this statement that the mere inclusion of a certain teaching in the liturgy does not immediately and ipso facto raise it to the status of an infallible dogma, but rather, the authority of such teachings increases with time (a condition for them to belong to the OUM). Therefore, the “received and approved rites” referred to in Session 7 of the Council of Trent, and the ceremonies spoken of in Session 22, insofar as they involve the Church’s infallibility, are to be understood of rites peacefully developed by the Church in continuity with her liturgical past and in harmony with her traditional doctrine; not to novelties imposed for the sake of conciliating Protestants. In the time of Trent, all the “received and approved” rites were of this nature and thus belonged in some manner to the OUM. That is why the Council saw no need to distinguish explicitly between rites that are traditional and others that are imposed as novelties. At that time, all “Catholic” rites were traditional." "A fallacy is committed in arguing a pari, that is, from one case to another as if they were equal-from Trent’s condemnation of Protestants to the case of the SSPX. We do not reject the Novus Ordo in the manner in which the Protestants rejected the Roman Rite, i.e., in the face of all Tradition. Rather, in this case it is we who are on the side of Tradition! Our case is entirely different from that which was considered by the Council Fathers at Trent, and the canons cited against us can be interpreted as a condemnation of the SSPX only be removing them from their context and applying them in a way neither foreseen nor intended by the authors."
@@troubledguest7401 And why should one trust a Church which has a Magisterium that has Promulgated a Liturgy that is objectively harmful to their soul?
How about the problem of replacing the traditional offertory prayers with the two Jewish meal prayers that offer "the fruits of the earth" to the god of the world. Isn't this sacrilege?
83 yr. old cradle catholic . How could we know the change in the mass. We never understood what was said in the mass. We also did not know scripture. We
Thank you so much Father and the moderator for this valuable information. But I have a question, I am from Mozambique we got our independence in 1975 and the first national Priest was ordained after Vatican II and only Novus Order Masses are celebrated and if I recall there is no Traditional Masses Celebrated in the country. What do we do?
I would suggest you watch livestream Traditional Masses on Sunday, still go to confession, and try to talk one of your priests into learning the Traditional Latin Mass.
Great talk, yet I have 2 objections or would like to rise some questions.... - As far as I know, there was a later statement from Card Ottaviani afyer his intervention over the further reform of the Liturgy, where he said he was pleased by Paul VI because he kind of fixed the new liturgy before it was released.. It is known that Ottavianni himseñf till his last day he celebrated the Novus Ordus Mass - Question... is it true thar Mons Lefevre signed up ALL the Vatican II documents? If that is true, why did he did such a thing?
When I came home to Latin, only one in vicinity is SSPX. I was advised when I visit former home for very long and no Latin Mass around, SSPX pastor advised me never to go to novus ordo even as long as a year or more.Never. Which I did. And now back to US, only Latin. However, I wonder if this pastor celebrates both Masses, Latin, and NO each day?
If the Catholic hierarchy has promulgated a Protestant liturgy, then is it the Catholic hierarchy? How can this be true? This is the kind of thing that originally made me skeptical of the SSPX (well, besides the Consecrations). I don’t understand how it can be true that the Catholic hierarchy could create and promulgate a liturgy in which Catholics cannot assist in good conscience. How? I’m sorry I’m peppering this comment section so much, but this is the one that has been the most difficult for me. I’ve been 100% on board up to this one, but this one, so far, is the hardest.
A bad father is still a father & can feed his children moldy bread that gradually makes them sick . A bad Pope is still a Pope & can feed his children an illusory spirituality.
Father, thank you. I attended a N O wedding if my nephew. a trad priest advised go as a social gathering, no Communion, no participation nada. Ver awkward thu to my family
a question: we live on an island and are dependent on Trid. Priests to come here to celebrate Mass. We have not had a Mass for almost a year because of COVID. We cannot do 1 st Saturdays or go to Masses of Obligation. Our children cannot let their children make Hl. Communion etc.. their parents feel they have no option but to attend the Novos Ordo Masses. Is there a different answer? Also in some cases the husband insists upon them all going there together as he does not want to know about what he has not been taught!
The answer is relatively simple: if there's no traditional mass around, that means there's no Catholic mass around, and that means you're dispensed. Just as a Catholic living in Antarctica is automatically dispensed from his duty to attend mass on Sundays (because there's no Catholic masses in Antarctica), you are likewise dispensed. Now, that doesn't mean you should let Sundays elapse like ordinary days. You're still bound by the Third Commandment to sanctify Sundays. When you can't go to mass, you're advised to read the propers of the day, say an extra rosary, etc.
I understand we don't have an obligation to go for the NO Mass, and as he said we have an obligation not to go, for those who have the knowledge at least, but, How then will we receive the Eucharist?
We most certainly DO have an obligation to attend mass on sundays and holy days, that precept of the church doesn’t cease to exist because a renegade order outside of the Church says so. Please consider this, if the magisterium of the Church, (the Pope and all the Bishops in communion with him), lack the authority to tell us what rites are licit and valid. Please tell me where the sspx gets the authority to make such a call!
Traditionals tend to think there is a Latin Mass on every street corner. As if people have a choice to go to the Novus Ordo or Latin Mass. Most of us don't. If you keep your family away from the mass for years and years and years they are going to grow up without the Catholic Church, I don't care how well-intended you are. No sacraments, no Mass, no Catholic children. Maybe I'm just fortunate, but in all my 60 years of going to the Novus Ordo Mass, I've never gotten the impression that the priest is the same thing as the people or vice versa or that there is no actual sacrifice taking place. I think it would be beneficial for you to not use the most extreme examples of what could go wrong. It simply is not taking place at most Novus Ordo Masses. If that is happening it's the exception and not the rule and it is not fair for you to characterize it as such. I agree there is a crisis in the church but I have come to the opinion that you do not abandon the church in order to fix the church. We need to hunker, down pick out the best Novus Order we can find, and there are good ones, very reverent and go with that. God will not abandon us and he will see us through it eventually. This is what's called Keeping the Faith. If God can put up with it, so can we. We don't have to abandon the church to remain Catholic.
Exactly. I never got the idea put in my head that the NO was a mere meal (along with other stuff) until I started hearing from people like the SSPX and others like them. All of the so called "NO Catholics" I've ever met (even if they don't care about Catholicism) realize Catholicism teaches that an actual Sacrifice happens at Mass and we truly receive Christ's body Blood soul and divinity.
Validity means the mass actually happens, which applies even to the Orthodox mass. The sspx does not claim the new mass is invalid.Liceity means the mass is right and legal. The sspx believe the new mass is not licit because of the way it is done. So the new mass is actually valid then one can attend it without a doubt. There goes an explaination of the new mass whether one can attend or not. Another dilemma to Confuse Catholics. "For God is not the God of dissension, but of peace: as also I teach in all the churches of the saints." [1 Corinthians 14:33] "But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil." [Matthew 5:37] I am a Traditionalist by the way. I live in a predominantly muslim country. In my country only one sspx chapel which is 3 hours or so travelling. And on sundays only. This is what sspx teaches I am confuse because of their Recognised and Resist policy.
I think Father beats around the bush here either the NO is verboten or it's not? I agree with him on his assessment but he gives no absolute cure? I'll do it for him, don't attend the NO if you want the true Mass. See how easy that is.
That is more tricky question. It is certainly not as good as sspx. Although they serve in catholic way their teaching is based on the errors of second Vatican council. There are some exceptional priests but those are exceptions.
Yes, if they’re your only option, that’s fine. The SSPX would like/prefer you to support them specifically, but a proper Catholic worship is sufficient for you to save your soul, no matter the priestly order.
It avoids at all cost expressing any Catholic teachings that Protestants don't accept. It refers to the mass as a meal, a supper, a meeting, a gathering of "people of God", a Eucharistic celebration, but it hardly ever calls the mass a sacrifice. And when it does call the mass a sacrifice, it only says "a sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving", something Lutherans, Anglicans and many Prots accept. It never calls the mass a propitiatory sacrifice, or a sacrifice in atonement for sins.
No, I can't agree, those faults in the NO Mass are bad, seriously bad, but they do not cancel out the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. No matter how awful it gets, I don't believe we should abandon him to the heretics, anyone going through a struggle with their faith needs to do what Catholics have always done - pray, do penance, go to Confession. I think its falling into satan's trap to say we have no obligation to go to Mass on Sunday.
This is actually nothing new, the Church has always taught that if there is no Catholic Mass available nearby, one is dispensed from his obligation to attend mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation. A man living in Antarctica has no obligation to go to mass, because there is no mass there! He still has the duty to sanctify the Lord's day in other ways, but he is definitely not committing any sin by not being able to attend the Catholic mass. The real question is: Is the new mass a Catholic mass? And this problem has been sufficiently answered in this series.
I have a church in my town that offers NOM and TLM, and there is an SSPX church 25 miles away. Is it ok for me to go to the local one or is it too afflicted by modernism?
It makes no sense to talk about ‘licit’ outside the discipline of Church. The word means ‘legal’, in this case according to Canon Law. You can make the basic point wanted here without using the word ‘licit’ in a manner unknown to ecclesiastical order.
Sorry, if someone lives in a diocese they should be obedient to their bishop (who does not offer a dispensation for their obligation when they can easily attend an NO mass) not to a “canonically irregular” religious society. That’s the true Catholic faith.
@@TheDeanMachineTV how can the magisterium promulgate an intrinsically evil mass, that would proove the church to be defective. This argumentation can only make sense if the current magisterium and the pope are invalid. Why aren't you a sedevecantist?
@@Daniel_Abraham1099 or it is to say that the pope paul 6 never declared that he was using the authority as the successor of peter and the magisterium of the church regarding the council and the mass. The evil allowed now will be for the gentiles who have lost the faith to fight their way through their own self love and hope they see the Father's true love. God convert hearts.
@@Daniel_Abraham1099 In the history of the Church, laity who resisted heresy/error have NEVER been excommunicated for the misfortune of being under a heretical prelate. When Nestorius was excommunicated, the laity under him weren’t excommunicated, ESPECIALLY if they resisted him. There was, however, a warning for laity not to go around pronouncing non-canonical excommunications, even though they were proven right in that case. In short, there’s way too many canonical nuances and delicacies that need to be considered to simply cut myself off from Rome.
@@Daniel_Abraham1099 The Mass itself is not sinful, and thus not magisterially promulgated as such. The argumentation falls more along the line of: The Mass is valid, however in its ambiguity is susceptible to liturgical abuses and alterations which cause a devaluation of the authentic Catholic Faith as traditionally taught and practiced. Being aware of and recognizing these dangers, it would be sinful for you to continue to attend such a Mass with full knowledge of the existence of healthier alternatives.
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I was a Cradle new order mass Catholic that felt like it didn't matter because we were not taught catechism like the council of trent. I didn't go to mass for over 20years and believed the priests were NO different than the rest of us so why bother with confession. I was never taught about a state of Grace. I was not taught much at all. That is all thanks to the new order mass.
Praise be to God. The Holy Spirit started me on a path to learning what I was never taught and now I have been going to TLM at sspx for 5 months and I continue to learn more everyday and passing on what I learn to others and my children.
I know I am not the only one that has a similar story.
God bless
Welcome aboard my friend! A*M*D*G!!!
No, you’re definitely not the only one!
You surely are not. Your story is encouraging. Thank you. 😊
Good for you and may God continue to guide you and your family in the right path 🙏❤
you are right ! after the neu’ordo ev’rything lapsed !
I went to Fr Robinson for confession last year. He helped me keep from totally losing my gord over the communist take over of America. I appreciate him so much.
I woke up to the communist takeover as well.
The NO mass here is horrible, I told my SSPX confessor that I just can’t stand to go to the NO Mass, He said that I f I were to go to the NO I may just lose my soul. So I attend SSPX when I am able, it is 2 hours away and I am 75 years old. This reinforces what my confessor told me. Thank you
Jean: That is really scary. I went to the TLM and NO when I couldn't go anywhere else. I'm going to start going to the SSPX this Sunday. I didn't know the NO could actually damage your faith. My Rosaries are probably what's saved me. 🙏
@@sweetcaroline2060 Jeanne's confessor is absolutely right!
As a Catholic you can't fulfill your Sunday obligation with a protestant-like service.
The novus ordo church is afflicted with the V2 errors, means there are not Catholic! If you have no problem with the errors of Vat.2 just stay with the novus ordo or similiar groups.
It's not just the TLM that makes you Catholic, but the FAITH. Novus ordo ppl do not believe what the SSPX(recognize&resist) believe or CMRI or SSPV. There are big differences! So one should learn the Catholic faith pre V2!!! e.g. Catechism "Trent", "Spirago", my playlist "Baltimore Catechism", L. Ott, "Fundamentals of Catholic dogma".
Active participation in a heretical service(e.g. NOM) would be a mortal sin for Catholics!
Another problem(novus ordo, FSSP,...) is that "priests" ordained by a (novus ordo)"bishop" consecrated in the new(invalid!) rite of ordination are no priests at all. So stay away!
SSPV & CMRI and (almost all) SSPX have valid priests ordained in the old rite by a bishop consecrated in the old rite. They also spend their sacraments in the old(valid!) rite.
So coming from the novus ordo pls consider that your sacraments(confessions, communion, confirmation) received in the n.o. are probably invalid.
@@sweetcaroline2060 so glad you are going to the TLM. The NO mass was partially invented by the Protestants and masons at Vatican II
@@sweetcaroline2060 i am so glad you pray the 📿 our Blessed Mother has been good to you
@@angelaa.4254 how do you know that the sacraments at a NO parish are invalid? Are you Jesus Christ? Far more learned people than you or I have stated that the NO mass is valid as are its sacraments. Don't make judgements when you don't know what you're talking about. That job belongs to Our Savior Jesus Christ.
Yes that's what happened to me.
Growing up with Novus Ordo Mass and no instruction about the Faith.
Around age 22 sitting in Mass, constantly bored with it,
I decided to leave to try find God myself.
I was led unknnowingly by Satan into every false religion for decades
until God's Grace woke me up one day out of the blue. He told me through a mental awareness all religions except His belong to Satan and brought me back to the Church - SSPX.
I'd never seen the Tridentine Mass before - it transformed me.
I've been learning the Faith for the first time - doing what's right. I've never been happier in my entire life.
God is truly so very kind and good.
Do you have parents? Ur parents are suppose to be ur first teachers of the faith not priests or religious.
I pray these would be in Spanish someday. Latin communities are seeking the truth of the faith and waking up to the changes.
There are many cathequesis and conferences about the crisis in Spanish. The FSSPX was founded in Switzerland by a French Archbishop, not in the United States. They've got priests all over the world, obviously in Spanish speaking countries too.
@@mariaorestes6583 Exacto.
Agree, the only one I know of is the one in El Paso Tx
This account is called English. There are others out there
@@Maya1975-todoes1iluciónJesus and Mary chapel correct? I attended there for a few months
I need to receive Our Lord’s Body. As long as it’s a valid consecration I will continue to attend the Novus Ordo. I’d prefer the SSPX TLM, but none close by. I’m a pre-Vat II Catholic. Graduated HS a year before the NO was forced on us.
I returned to the Church after several years in the new age and occult and now belong to a NO parish. I love the beautiful church and generous pastors but am beginning to develop an understanding of the issues with the NO - largely because of this series. I'm even beginning to wonder if I would have hung onto my faith and stayed in the Church if I'd had this deeper understanding years ago. I will never know. But I am beyond grateful for this series - and very excited to recently find out that there is an SSPX chapel in my own small town!
What a blessing ❤❤❤
Fr Paul Robinson s one of my favorites. I saw him on Taylor Marshals podcast a couple of times
He is great. I like all of the priests of this crisis podcasts
So so thankful for the SSPX and all the amazing priests! I truly believe we’re going to see a rise in the attendance of people with us who turn away from the modern church.
I think that too!
Joseph van Haren
Thank you Father Robinson . I was privileged to meet Father Robinson a good number of years ago when father used to drive 8 hours from Sydney to the North Coast offer Mass and hear Confession for small number of Catholics , I was also privileged to have father stay at my house on his travels several times.God Bless you Father Robinson.
These podcasts are absolutely magnificent. Thank you for these and all your other work
Excellent work. Thank you.
Thank you for the information Father. My husband is the only one left since his brother died, that goes to any Catholic Mass. Out of his eight siblings. So sad.
Thank you Father my our Lord bless you I am blessed to be the Guardian of a 1st class relic of St Pope Pius x
Fr Paul Robinson is so awesome . keep up the good work and the truth thanking you
It would be wonderful to see an interview with some of the Sisters associated with the SSPX.The Dominican teaching sisters,SSPX sister and Franciscan Sisters from Kansas City.Please consider it!
You may find this interesting, then!
sspxpodcast.com/2020/03/interview-mother-mary-joseph-franciscan-sisters-of-christ-the-king/
Father, your hard line is inappropriate. The flaws you mention represent outlier circumstances. There so few Latin Mass opportunities in America vs the NO Masses. If those NO priests are validly ordained, the Eucharist is confected and no matter what the priest says in his homily, the communicant is receiving Our Lord.
@@jacquelinezurawski2230 The priest has to intend to consecrate. If they don’t believe in the Eucharist, they cannot intend.
Also, going to mass isn’t about receiving the Eucharist, it’s about worshipping God. If the priest is giving out heresy, you could be poisoned unto death, and if you know that heresy will, happen you sin by putting yourself in an occasion of sin.
@@SSPX Are there convents associated with the SSPX (FSSPX) in Brazil?
@@SSPX Thank you. Will check out the link!
We owe God the type of worship what He desires, not the type of worship what man desires.
Yes! You stated this perfectly! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Please pray for me brothers and sisters and if you can please offer up some fasting/sacrifices to help me make expiation for my sinful past
I am a Cradle Catholic born in the 1960's in Austria. If my mother (who was lucky grewing up with the traditional mass) would not have insisted in attending the (novus ordo) mass every sunday, we children would have never had a mass, First Communion or Confirmation for there was no possibility to go to a traditional mass in the whole town when we grew up. Now that there is the possibility to attend the traditional mass I am doing so. Even if it takes me 1 hour to get there. My late mother always taught us, that this is the right way to worship God. So in my opinion, if there is no other possibility you have to attend a novus ordo mass in person. The Holy Spirit is working his way as long as you are right minded and learning and searching the Truth.
You are correct
Fr. Robinson should be on the Matt Fradd Show to share with him some TRUTH! It's more needed than ever before.
I doubt Matt Fradd would have him on, but it’s worth a try.
I’d expect some sharp objections...
Who's Matt Fradd? Is he on UA-cam?
I can understand a little why, in the sixties, mainline Protestants 'might' be more inclined to convert if some elements of the Faith were obscured, but I can tell you from my fundamentalist background, when I decided to convert to the Novus Ordo it did not help at all. I wanted the Old Time Religion of All Time. I got so many excuses, reform of the reform, hermeneutic of continuity. It has taken me another twenty years to get here, to the Society, finally.
I'm a Novus Ordo era Catholic as most of us are but recently I've started attending the traditional Latin mass. I have only had the opportunity to participate in 3 low masses but what an eye opener! We have had our history, traditions and spiritual treasures stolen from us by the heretic modernists. It is such a travesty that this has been allowed to happen. But there is still hope and it comes in the form of groups like the SSPX, the FSSP, the ICKSP etc, who teach and practice the true mass and faith. One day the NO will just be a footnote in Catholic history and the TLM will be the only mass celebrated.
This is my new favorite UA-cam channel
The NO mass started when I was a kid. My Mom didn't like it at all and said it Protestantized the Catholic Church. I am starting to go to the TLM, but this Sunday I'm convinced I need to go to the SSPX. I've felt for a long time that the NO was not right but didn't have a choice to do otherwise. I never participated in the shenanigans of the that mass, especially the ever-popular "kiss of peace " which actually, is optional and I've had to say the prayer to St. Michael on my own eventhough the Priests were ordered by the Bishop to say it. I don't have much more time on this earth and my first duty is to God, then myself. It's probably ONLY by the grace of God that my faith hasn't diminished. And, the BVM has kept me safe from heresies by my recitation of the Rosary -- at least one a day. So, thank you, Fr. Robinson for the clear answers you've given us on this.🙏
What do you mean by "the mass being Protestantized"?
@Blackwood when the novus ordo was fabricated in the mid 1960s, 7 or so protestant ministers were enlisted to help rid the Mass of anything that might offend their sensibilities. Among other things, references to the BVM were greatly reduced, a table replaced the altar, the priest faced the people instead of turning East, toward God, and perhaps most significantly, the focus on the Mass shifted from the great sacrifice at Calvary to a fraternal supper of sorts. In other words, it became man-centered or protestantized.
Amen Father your absolutely spot on , giving to God what he wants! 🙏🙏
Yes. I believe Fr. Paul is very correct. Thank you. 🙏❤🌹🙏🌹❤🙏
I found a chapel some 60 miles away. And can start going there next Sunday.
Thank you, Father
Thank you Father.
Some of us do not have any traditional Mass in our town. The closest Traditional Mass is 4-6 HOURS AWAY. This makes it hard and almost in possible to attend the Traditional Mass.
I know what are you talking about. When I started to go to the sspx, it was bit more than 3 hours for me to get there. Then I partly moved closer.
Get a missal, watch the livestream, pray the rosary daily.
We face the same problem, theclosest is 6 hours awat from us, Iam in the process of becoming Catholic and I cant afford financially to attend latin mass so what Am I suppose to do????🤔😭
@@emiliepoirier6093 there should be FSSP, CMRI, ICK, Anglican Ordinariate (Pope Benedict XVI welcomed them in 2010).
Another great episode. You might wish to expand on the alternatives for those who do realize the illicit nature of the N.O. but have no recourse for the Tridentine Mass in their area. I am lucky that there is a Diocesan Tridentine Mass offered across the state line that I can attend. Were it not for that, my only option would be to drive over 40 miles one way to the nearest SSPX, St. Anthony of Padua. Many do not have an option.
Yeah anyone in the Roanoke/Blacksburg/Christiansburg area has no option but to drive 200 miles
@@lilyw.719 One has to be careful with diocesan Masses due to what is said from the pulpit. Most diocesan priests have been taught the Modernist heresy in seminary and thus teach it regularly. My family attended diocesan Masses until a couple of years ago and we were so shocked that we had accepted Modernist views without knowing it. It’s being taught everywhere. I imagine other traditional orders are probably safe in that way, but even many FSSP priests tell the faithful that attending SSPX Masses is a mortal sin. It’s really frustrating!
@@lilyw.719 They are a bit more nuanced than that. It really comes down to the formation that the priests receive. Some of these priests in diocesan masses are bumbling their way through the Latin since they were never taught the TLM, saying unorthodox things in the pulpit that are often more focused on conservative politics than the actual Catholic faith and will often promote the Novus Ordo along with their traditional mass. Once you accept that the Novus Ordo is a serious departure from the true faith should be and that it should be avoided, it really just comes naturally that being around priests who are mixing in this New Theology with the true faith or promoting the Novus Ordo is an occasion for scandal and sin.
In regards to priests who believe the true faith, criticize the modernism of today and don't promote the Novus Ordo at all. Those priests aren't going to be diocesan priests for much longer outside of maybe a few dioceses. www.lifesitenews.com/news/priest-blogger-bishops-send-conservative-priests-to-psych-hospitals-for-dep
But sometimes they do this and will be given a strange limbo status by their bishop or sent to the backwoods of the diocese, sometimes those poor priests become "independent chapel" priests which is a dangerous road. But in those circumstances, yes the priests that I have found do say it is fine to go to them. As for FSSP priests. I also wonder how many priests would remain in their position if they publically said "Our Bishop doing this ecumenical meeting is scandalous and wrong" or said, "Don't go to to the New Mass" or how about if they disobeyed their Bishop who refuses to give baptisms to Protestant converts who were invalidly baptized or disobeyed their bishop who demands that even the FSSP not give communion on the tongue (Yes that's happening in Canada). Once we start getting into the particulars the SSPX position becomes a little more clear. Don't take a mildly orthodox/conservative bishop for granted. Sooner or later he will retire and James Martin will come in, and then it will make sense why the SSPX say what they say.
I go to the SSPX Mass here in Australia. Thank God every day that you have to merely cross a nearby state line for your Diocesan TLM.
The SSPX would advise you to “be weary” like the above person in the comments said; but they would most certainly tell you to drive, drive, drive there and support that local priest!
40 miles is nothing for going towards good doctrine.
I have been living w cancer 4 7 yrs and have no car. I have been going online but nothing beats the real thing.
Excellent series!
It is very difficult to have spent the first 30 years of life attending (relatively reverent, back then) Novus Ordo Masses and, though I have long had a sense of lack at the N.O. that drove me to Tradition, living in the idea that that’s just how the Church is, and that the N.O. is OK, and that Mass is obligatory, period, so one must attend the N.O. if it’s the only one around…
It is frightening to face this information and the responsibility, as Father says, of turning away from the N.O. if one comes to recognize and acknowledge it as an injustice to God. It was very difficult just now to form the thought that it could be an injustice to God and type that out.
I believe that God did work through good priests and the Sacraments, even the Novus Ordo versions, to help me through spiritually difficult times. It’s difficult to think that it could be so wrong. It almost sounds like this argument implies that it’s inherently evil, but how could that be? (Maybe I’m stretching the argument farther than it is intended at that point, though…)
It seems (feels, I think) impossible that this could be true. It makes it very difficult to intellectually assent to the assertion because of the implications. It is difficult in the first place to think that the hierarchy could impose this on us.
It is all very difficult.
Prayers. Well, consider St. Peter who denied Jesus Christ three times! And had to be corrected by St. Paul about including Gentiles! So yes, the hierarchy can definitely mess up, & be overly influenced by humanism. Please read Open Letter to Confused Catholics. Even Pooe Benedict Emeritus recently wrote that humanists tried to take over Vatican II & influenced the post Conciliar Documents. Pray the traditional rosary daily & Our Lady will help you.
I grew up Lutheran & converted. I treasure what was true about it & have wonderful memories. I leave the untrue things behind.
My family lives in a place where the closest TLM is 4 hours away and the closest Novus Ordo is within walking distance, yet sometimes we will miss Mass on Sundays because we refuse to go to the NO
What is the worst thing happening at your NO? What Parish is it?
We drive an hour to attend Latin Sunday mass, my only option for first fridays, first Saturdays, weekday mass and holy days are novus ordo mass, there aren’t any Latin masses anywhere near me. We don’t even have a Latin parish, a priest travels for us to have a Latin mass.😔believe me ... I long for daily Latin mass, but it’s not possible. Luckily we were able to get our second grader first holy communion in Latin mass and just recently 2 older kids confirmed in the SSPX in St. Louis!!!! It was beautiful!!!
All I can say is the NO mass was a impediment to my faith. The way the faith was watered down by liturgical abuse and homilies that endorsed modernism and the extreme lack of respect for the Holy Eucharist made my head spin and my heart sink.
What do you mean when you say Modernism? What do you considered liturgical abuse?
@@blackwood3243 IE. That it doesn't mater whether you believe in Christ, Mahoma, Buda or nothing, just be good feel good, and you go to heaven type of crap against the faith.
I have a quick question for father or anyone who can answer. I have recently left the NO for tradition, but my family finds it very upsetting that I do not wish to attend the NO mass once in a while. I do not blame them for this since the NO mass encourages the feeling the you are attending mass for community. I can see how for my parents this seems like I am not attending because I wish to be a part of a different community, not because I wish to truly worship god as he deserves. I have tried to explain this perspective to them, but they struggle to see the truth and still feel as if it is wrong for me to not attend mass with them for days like mothers/Father’s Day, Christmas, Easter, etc. While it just doesn’t feel right to attend a NO mass now, part of me wonders if it would still be okay to attend one on these occasions with them if I also attend a traditional mass that day. Let me know what I should do in this circumstance. Thank you!
At 24:18 Fr. talks about attending NO Mass for social obligations but not actually participating (worshipping). That would be what you could do in your situation, unless your family is insistent you do every bit of the Mass to worship with them.
I can testify to the veracity of 4 out of 5 children raised in the novus ordo leave the Catholic Church by age 23. 5 in our family, and 4 left
Great series...rich and demanding our concentration. Following it in NZ where the nearest Latin Mass i know of is 50+ km away and the nearest SSPX chapel 80km...
Thanks Fr Robinson.
The answer is a big NO.
I converted to the Catholic Church via the Novus Ordo Mass, and was quite happy for about a decade. Then I was introduced to the Traditional Latin Mass via the FSSP . I’m so sad that I’m basically forced to attend the Novus Ordo due to lack of Traditional Latin Mass available in my area. Both the SSPX and the FSSP have parishes in my Archdiocese, but both are still almost a two hour drive one way…….
You might consider livestream mass & sending your guardian angel there...make spiritual communion & go once a month to SSPX?
@@elisehougesen6871 Advising a Catholic not to receive the real Body blood soul and divinity of are Lord, that is wicked advise.
@@elisehougesen6871are you actually telling him to miss mass? Missing the mass even if it’s the novus ordo is a mortal sin.
He knows what is pleasing to God? How can he know the mind of God?
Excellent presentation and discussion. Thank you very much !!
God bless the SSPX!
The ultimate question has arrived
How do you feel about the Anglican Ordinariate and Eastern rites?
Thank you! This clears up a lot for me.
I would appreciate if the SSPX would link all of their sources for their positions on the NO mass in the description of their videos, I think it's only fair to the listener if you're going to make the claims you do about the NO.
I know this is off topic but what plans do the SSPX Bishops have to continue their Episcopal succession? Are they planning to Consecrate new Bishops?
If they don’t they’re dead
They'll probably try to work out a deal with the Vatican, but go through a consecration at the last minute like archbishop Lefevre tried to do.
@@AmericansAlwaysFree Something needs to be done in the next 5-10 years or they will die away
Probably so. There can be no priests without bishops and the 3 bishops do not live forever. It would be nice if Rome approves the consecration this time but if they don't, it doesn't really matter, the situation we're living in is much worse than the situation when Archbishop Lefebvre consecrated 4 bishops. We are backed up by Canon law and the whole tradition of the Church.
Maria Orestes I want to start attending the SSPX Mass. been with the NO for a lot of years, but started learning the truth of it all and quit going. And with covid, hubby is 71 I’m 66 so we feel we’ll wait until we’re comfortable in crowds again to start attending SSPX. We’re blessed to have a chapel nearby. Thanks Fr. for this wonderful podcast.
Over the years (I'm 72 yo) I was an off & on Mass attendee. Many other Catholics, like myself, were totally ignorant of why this "on & off" behavior. One guy suggested that the Church decreed that missing Mass wasn't a mortal sin any longer Others blamed themselves for their diminishing faith & lost the desire to even discuss it. We were pre-teens in 1962. Yah know, what Vatican II did to my generation of Catholics was nothing (although it was devastating) compared to how very insidiously and subtly they brought the next 2! Generations of Catholics into submission and ignorance. God has control over this. His infinite wisdom I trust. I can maintain self-control & be in peace knowing all will end well, but not without STRUGGLE. 3 generations of poor souls will be vindicated. I'd discovered SSPX only a few months ago, & now that my self control has returned I am proactive as opposed to reactive. There may be a great apostasy unfolding but there's a greater awaiting of God's faithful. My Sincere appreciation to all SSPX staff especially the Priests. I'm praying for all of us but focused on SSPX Priests.
I must comment. I received my formation from Opus Dei. And the priests celebrate the Novus Ordo mass and the Tridentine Mass with deep reverence with the idea celebrate the new mass with the reverence and spirituality of the old. In fact the priest who gave me much spritual formation while he celebrates both actually recommended the SSPX tridentine mass when it was forbidden in my diocese. For daily mass I go to the Opus Dei center and I can see how the Tridentine Mass nourishes the Novus Ordo mass only if the priests says the Tridentine Mass. Also in the Opus Dei center I go to communion is only done on the tongue and kneeling. I will go only to Tridentine Mass on Sunday, but for daily mass I go to a Novus Ordo Mass that is celebrated reverently . Thank God the priests of Opus Dei celebrate both forms.
The NO does not immolate (kill for sacrifice); it brings present the past event of Calvary. There is a difference. Please get a copy of the 1829 facsimile of the Catechism of the Council of Trent.
Wow. The Opus Deists here in Brazil do not celebrate TLM at all.
I am very sympathetic to the Society's position. One question: who confers "liceity" upon a thing? Or is it rather a series of specific actions in each circumstance that determine its liceity in this context (of the situation of the Novus Ordo Mass)? I guess my question is: does the Pope and/or Bishops have the "power" to rule that something is "licit" which devalues the faith? Thank you for your distinctions re: subjective dispositions of the faithful as opposed to the objective situation of the Mass itself.
I think when we say “licit” in the SSPX we are speaking about morality. For us to say offering Mass according to this defective rite is not licit, we are saying it is not morally good. We may seem to arrogate too much authority to ourselves in judging so, but in truth we are responsible for our our souls and those of our faithful, so we are bound to judge whether a course of action is allowable or not. A thing could be illicit by reason of the action itself, or circumstances or a bad intention. I don’t think licit is primarily a canonical term: if canon law provides for/permits of something, it is because that thing is morally permissible. So for an authority to just impose “liceity” on something bad sounds a lot like nominalism, voluntarism and abuse of authority to me. In principle yes, in ordinary times, you would be morally certain your bishop and the pope were correct in judging things licit or otherwise. Alas, these times are far from ordinary…
In Christ,
Fr Paul Franks
@@SSPX Thank you so much, Father, for taking the time to respond. This is exactly the clarification I was hoping for. I can say without reservation that I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment.
I think the SSPX is overstepping on this one. I agree with a lot of their critiques of the Novus Ordo but telling people they can stay home if they can't get to a TLM is an overstep of authority. They have no authority to dispense with the Sunday obligation. They would say they are not "dispensing" as such but giving advice based on Catholic principles but it's only their opinion.
It's true that they have no authority to dispense the Sunday obligation. And they don't dispense anyone.
They did give advice based on Catholic principles. SSPX priests are serious folks, they are perfectly aware of what they are saying. They know perfectly well that one day they will have to answer to God all the advices they have given. Every answer they give has been carefully considered, and this one is not an exception.
The Sunday obligation is to keep Sunday holy. Spiritual Communion during a livestream Mass can be very powerful. NO mass has no immolation (kill for sacrifice). It only brings the past event into present consciousness. It is a memorial meal & not a Sacrifice. Luther won.
@@elisehougesen6871 No Catholic that has an ounce of care or understanding about the Catholic faith thinks that the NO mass is a mere meal, so called "NO Catholics" are taught that it is a true sacrifice that takes place.
Raised Evangelical, became Anglocatholic as an adult: Roman vestments, ad orientem, basically the TLM in classical English, then finally I entered the Church through RCIA at a local parish. I attended the NO Mass for two years and finally had to leave. It was terrible liturgical vomit. I have not attended Mass in 8 years and will not attend a NO Mass by choice again. The SSPX do not come to small rural areas with low population numbers, so unless I want a 6 hour round trip it is out of the question. I went on a retreat in Shawinigan a decade ago and it was wonderful, but again, until the TLM is available in small town Canada what am I supposed to do?
Where are you located? I moved to a small-town rural area in Manitoba and the only TLMs are in Winnipeg and basically it's one 9am mass at a diocesean parish and the SSPX. It's around a 6-7 round-trip. Recently, I learned that the SSPX in Winnipeg will do masses in other parts of Manitoba and on the border of Saskatchewan. There would be one that I could attend that would be 2 hours away once a month during the summer. I too entered the church recently and attended NO mass for around 1.5 years. I don't think I can bring myself to attend and even my non-Catholic husband thinks it's strange how the church is only filled with old people and women and how their kids left the faith. I brought up some issues with the priest during RCIA with him how I desired orthodoxy but he didn't seem to grasp why young people were not attracted to the faith and that donations are falling every year.
I think petitioning the SSPX to make more masses available to people especially to the rural areas (I moved here to be with my husband since we wanted to raise our kids away from the degeneracy that's in the cities and to have an honest living). I'm sorry about your situation and I sympathize.
Pray Rosary every day, and read Scrptures of Tlm on Sunday. I do so when I cant attend a sspx Mass. God bless you.
People forget God is perfection. Novus ordo is contrary to perfection.
All things done by man are contrary to perfection.
In the part of the Philippines that I live in, Catholics have no choice but attend the New Mass which as far as I remember is the only Mass local Catholics here attend to in their entire life from cradle to grave. Traditional Mass is alien to us. Pray for us.
There are parts in pH which have TLM from SSPX, coming from NO I can only say pray for it and ask Our God Father, Lord Jesus Christ and Blessed Virgin Mary to guide you and give it to you...and he will lead you...it takes a sacrifice but if you're asking is for the good of your soul...I'm sure 😊 your prayers will be answered just don't give up...
+++ Deo Gratias
I'm from North of Philippines... We have infrequent TLM masses here... One hour away... Praying for you to have TLM in your place... Praying for you and the whole Philippines that there will be more TLM masses and that there will be holy priests and bishops🙏
Does anyone know where I can hear a priest explain why taking a host from the new mass would not be good?
Thanks for this video. My one issue with this position is how is Fr able to say, with a seemingly very high degree of confidence, that the NO Mass is Illicit and displeasing to God?
I could certainly understand the argument that the new Mass is much less pleasing to God than the traditional Mass for all the reasons stated in the video, but definitively saying the new mass is illicit seems to be a stretch.
To see why it soo I would recommend you watching previous episodes.
Great question! I think you can identify this in a few ways.
1. By the ceremonies surrounding the Novus Ordo not promoting the actual sacrifice going on, for example, the offertory being merely a Jewish prayer before meals, practically all mentions of sacrifice being taken away, the mentions of sin, speaking in the vernacular, and distinguishing the sins of the priest and the layman are removed, etc. This can also be found in the real presence, seeing how the Novus Ordo actually says "He will come again" after the consecration is complete, and the removal of several genuflections. A good document to read is the Council of Trent's condemnation of errors on the mass. Here it "anathematizes" or condemns certain ideas. I would suggest reading this and asking yourself "Does the Novus Ordo have anything in it that would make you think any of these ideas are wrong?" In fact, the Novus Ordo actually does many of the things condemned here, which isn't heresy, but it suggests that those things are actually right. www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/newmass/trent.htm
2. The New Mass is not a "received" Rite from our fathers. This is a pretty simple one. How can we trust a rite that was constructed? The Church has no infallibility when it comes to things that weren't in the deposit of faith that Our Lord and the Apostles delivered to us. The Traditional mass has roots in the Apostles themselves, the rite that St. Peter celebrated was close to the Traditional Mass, it's developed over time, but fundamentally it's the same mass. The one that Pope Saint Gregory the Great over 1000 years ago would have been nearly identical. The Novus Ordo? Nearly identical to the Anglican Protestant Mass 1.bp.blogspot.com/-PK4hVqbmqv8/XgpsdLTnhtI/AAAAAAAABkg/xci3TC3ADFcSOefIBjjPaAFyI80u3Ua4QCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/ComparisonOfTridentineCranmer%2Band%2BNovusOrdo.png
3. The fruits of the New Mass. How many extraordinary Saints have been made by the New Mass? All of even the modern ones that were truly extraordinary grew up with the Traditional Mass. Even if you want to count John Paul II and Mother Theresa as being extraordinary, they still grew up with the Traditional Mass. How many have been made by the Traditional Mass? Practically all of them. Now, how many people have left the faith because they weren't taught the reverence, love, and respect for the things in the Church by the mass? As Father mentioned, 2/3 of Catholics leave the Church. More than that don't even know what the real presence is. How can a truly good mass have such worthless fruits? Even when the Novus Ordo is celebrated "reverently" it has the same problems because it doesn't promote the sacrifice as it should and all the fruits come from when the priest imitates the Traditional Mass, instead of from the Novus Ordo itself.
For more reading, I would suggest reading Michael Davies' book "Cranmer's Godly Order" angeluspress.org/products/cranmers-godly-order Cardinal Ottaviani's critical study of the New Mass www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/newmass/intervention.htm and this small little pamphlet www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/newmass/latinmass.htm Again we have to ask ourselves, "Is the Novus Ordo really providing us what the mass should provide us? Does it live up to the obligation that we owe to God to participate in his Holy Sacrifice?" I think we then will come to find that the answer is no. God bless you!
@@murrax7639 well. Your third point is really only a matter of time
Thank u!
Please explain how a reverently celebrated NO mass does not give proper worship to God.
So logical!
Half measures avail us nothing.
Shout from the roof tops until your Pastor/ Bishop starts saying the Latin Mass at your Church. Stand up! Take control!
It took us five years but we got it done at my local N. O. Church.
None the less I drive past it for the Society Mass on a Traditional Altar
That has gotten us nowhere in the Boise diocese. They put an FSSP parish in northern Idaho to compete with the SSPX priory there, but refuse to have a diocesan Latin Mass more than once a month in the Boise area (7 hours away from the priory). Requests, having over 300 people attend monthly Latin Masses, and various meeting with the bishop have yielded nothing. The SSPX is our only alternative here, especially since the catechesis for children in all of the diocesan parishes here is nightmarish.
Is there an SSPX option in the Boise area?
Hello. If I may, although I agree almost 100% with all the Society's positions (and accept their validity and all such things), I find the positon that we have a perpetual dispensation from NOs too much like a schismatic position (e.g., sedes). NOs are horrible, of course, and I should like to the attend none if possible, but it seems like were I to teach my children that NOs are not to be attended (or even *sinful* to attend) it would be like raising them in a church that is not the Church, but a smaller, better church. Yet I must raise them as Catholic and emphasize the unity of "the Church", which although in crisis remains fundamental in unity. Anyway, I think this position is basically the FSSP's (although I doubt the formation of the ecclesia Dei communities were because of any particular commitment to the NO), yet I fear that they will soon be gone. Anyway, I mostly just wanted to ask if someone with this position, that the NO is bad, to be avoided, but still licit, could or should attend SSPX chapels or if they should be avoided, as I don't agree 100% with them.
We certainly don’t require that you share our assessment of the New Rite in order to assist at Mass / receive sacraments. And you have the right to the traditional Mass and sacraments, in virtue of your baptism, so I would say you’re good to go. In Christ, Fr Franks
Thank you very much, Father!
What if you can not get to the Latin Mass. Fr. Most said we can say a rosary during the new mass.
Every NO mass ive been to was a huge waste of time.
22:37 How do we parse out the multiple confounding factors that could have led to this outcome? After VII, the hierarchy both stopped teaching the traditional faith and promulgated the New Mass: how can we say with confidence that the New Mass caused the loss of faith and not the failure to teach the faith (by other means)?
Bad doctrine causes bad morals. Then bad rites are promoted.
You need a valid minister for mass as well correct? Matter form and intent. I think the orders in the NO church are doubtful at best.
No
I attend the sspx chapel, and think that this is the boat of Christ to be at the storm, but I dont share this point of viev. For example why I should not take comunion if I attend NO mass fot social reason?? if it is given in proper way on knees and tongue. it seems strange for me because it is a Christ himself how can I be at mass and be in state which allow to me to receive communion, and not take it ??
Was it valid before Benedict XVI changed back the form of the consecration of the wine? If it was valid, why was it changed back? Doesnt a wrong form make it invalid? Thank you for the reply.
I was surprised that Fr. Robinson counselled us to avoid the NOM.
When I was new to the SSPX I was also a bit surprised about this stance. I even thought it was too extreme LOL.
Not just Fr. Robinson, but every SSPX priest would tell you the same thing: "do not go to the NO Mass". Each of them actually made a decleration around their ordinations, in which they promise to never celebrate the NO and never advise anyone to go to the NO.
It is extreme.
To reject the NO is schismatic. Read what the church teaches on this subject.
@@vincesigala9104 it's not schismatic. I do not agree with that position, but the reasoning is not a schismatic one.
Hey I live in a part of the country (USA) with many people, many Catholics, and many who desire the Latin Mass, but no access to any Latin mass within 4 hours drive. I sent the sspx an “SOS” over email a few months ago but have not heard anything back, is there anything we can do?
Maybe you can call to St Thomas More and Priory in Sanford, 407 872 1007. I hope they can help you.
How is the New Mass less pleasing if it's still the actual body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ? It's still the same identical sacrifice of Calvary being offered, which *in itself*, is always pleasing because it's the one sacrifice. But that says nothing of how efficacious it is for those who participate in the offering.
One analogy is crowning a king with a baseball cap instead of a precious crown.
Is he still the king? Sure.
Is it appropriate to his dignity? No.
Does it diminish your trust / respect in him? Yes.
Therefore the baseball cap is an obviously bad choice.
@@SSPX how can the Church promulgate something which harmful for the souls of the faithful? Isn't that anathematized in Trent: -"If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema."?
I'm asking in good faith, trying to understand the SSPX's position better
@@silvinho5860 An SSPX priest answered this question in the comment thread to this video: ua-cam.com/video/IvILoep8yq4/v-deo.html. He said "we interpret this canon just as the other acts of the Magisterium that were discussed in the podcast. These pronouncements refer to the Church’s traditional rites and vestments; not necessarily to any novelty that is imposed on the Church.
The infallibility of liturgical laws is, at least ordinarily, to be sought in their continuity with the past (by analogy with the OUM) rather than in the mere fact of their being promulgated for the universal Church. If the latter were sufficient to guarantee infallibility, this would raise all liturgical legislation to the level of the solemn or extraordinary magisterium, making each rubric into a kind of definition of faith-which is indeed a pious belief, but not necessarily well founded, and it does not hold up well under the light of evidence.
St. Peter Canisius distinguishes dogmas of the faith, which must be believed under pain of heresy, from truths accepted by the faithful and sanctioned by the practice of the Church, which it would be “rash” to deny; and finally liturgical truths, or truths expressed by the public worship of the Church, “whose authority continues to increase as the teachers of the Church go corroborating them with more interest and as they go penetrating into the convictions of the faithful” (cf. Fr. Manuel Pinto, S.J.O’Valor Teologico da Liturgia [“The Theological Value of the Liturgy”], pp. 296-297, cited in Silveira’s study). It is clear from this statement that the mere inclusion of a certain teaching in the liturgy does not immediately and ipso facto raise it to the status of an infallible dogma, but rather, the authority of such teachings increases with time (a condition for them to belong to the OUM).
Therefore, the “received and approved rites” referred to in Session 7 of the Council of Trent, and the ceremonies spoken of in Session 22, insofar as they involve the Church’s infallibility, are to be understood of rites peacefully developed by the Church in continuity with her liturgical past and in harmony with her traditional doctrine; not to novelties imposed for the sake of conciliating Protestants.
In the time of Trent, all the “received and approved” rites were of this nature and thus belonged in some manner to the OUM. That is why the Council saw no need to distinguish explicitly between rites that are traditional and others that are imposed as novelties. At that time, all “Catholic” rites were traditional."
"A fallacy is committed in arguing a pari, that is, from one case to another as if they were equal-from Trent’s condemnation of Protestants to the case of the SSPX. We do not reject the Novus Ordo in the manner in which the Protestants rejected the Roman Rite, i.e., in the face of all Tradition. Rather, in this case it is we who are on the side of Tradition! Our case is entirely different from that which was considered by the Council Fathers at Trent, and the canons cited against us can be interpreted as a condemnation of the SSPX only be removing them from their context and applying them in a way neither foreseen nor intended by the authors."
@@troubledguest7401 And why should one trust a Church which has a Magisterium that has Promulgated a Liturgy that is objectively harmful to their soul?
How about the problem of replacing the traditional offertory prayers with the two Jewish meal prayers that offer "the fruits of the earth" to the god of the world. Isn't this sacrilege?
that is definitely a bad thing to do, but perhaps not a sacrilege.
83 yr. old cradle catholic . How could we know the change in the mass. We never understood what was said in the mass. We also did not know scripture. We
Thank you so much Father and the moderator for this valuable information. But I have a question, I am from Mozambique we got our independence in 1975 and the first national Priest was ordained after Vatican II and only Novus Order Masses are celebrated and if I recall there is no Traditional Masses Celebrated in the country. What do we do?
I would suggest you watch livestream Traditional Masses on Sunday, still go to confession, and try to talk one of your priests into learning the Traditional Latin Mass.
Great talk, yet I have 2 objections or would like to rise some questions....
- As far as I know, there was a later statement from Card Ottaviani afyer his intervention over the further reform of the Liturgy, where he said he was pleased by Paul VI because he kind of fixed the new liturgy before it was released.. It is known that Ottavianni himseñf till his last day he celebrated the Novus Ordus Mass
- Question... is it true thar Mons Lefevre signed up ALL the Vatican II documents? If that is true, why did he did such a thing?
We dont have choice. It is the only Mass we have in our location.🤔🤔🤔
When I came home to Latin, only one in vicinity is SSPX. I was advised when I visit former home for very long and no Latin Mass around, SSPX pastor advised me never to go to novus ordo even as long as a year or more.Never. Which I did. And now back to US, only Latin.
However, I wonder if this pastor celebrates both Masses, Latin, and NO each day?
If the Catholic hierarchy has promulgated a Protestant liturgy, then is it the Catholic hierarchy? How can this be true?
This is the kind of thing that originally made me skeptical of the SSPX (well, besides the Consecrations). I don’t understand how it can be true that the Catholic hierarchy could create and promulgate a liturgy in which Catholics cannot assist in good conscience. How?
I’m sorry I’m peppering this comment section so much, but this is the one that has been the most difficult for me. I’ve been 100% on board up to this one, but this one, so far, is the hardest.
A bad father is still a father & can feed his children moldy bread that gradually makes them sick . A bad Pope is still a Pope & can feed his children an illusory spirituality.
I believe the real third secret question, is an indictment against vatican 2...
Father, thank you. I attended a N O wedding if my nephew. a trad priest advised go as a social gathering, no Communion, no participation nada. Ver awkward thu to my family
a question: we live on an island and are dependent on Trid. Priests to come here to celebrate Mass. We have not had a Mass for almost a year because of COVID. We cannot do 1 st Saturdays or go to Masses of Obligation. Our children cannot let their children make Hl. Communion etc.. their parents feel they have no option but to attend the Novos Ordo Masses. Is there a different answer? Also in some cases the husband insists upon them all going there together as he does not want to know about what he has not been taught!
The answer is relatively simple: if there's no traditional mass around, that means there's no Catholic mass around, and that means you're dispensed. Just as a Catholic living in Antarctica is automatically dispensed from his duty to attend mass on Sundays (because there's no Catholic masses in Antarctica), you are likewise dispensed.
Now, that doesn't mean you should let Sundays elapse like ordinary days. You're still bound by the Third Commandment to sanctify Sundays. When you can't go to mass, you're advised to read the propers of the day, say an extra rosary, etc.
I understand we don't have an obligation to go for the NO Mass, and as he said we have an obligation not to go, for those who have the knowledge at least, but, How then will we receive the Eucharist?
Spiritual Communion. Or call a missionary priest
Just be sure he is honest.
We most certainly DO have an obligation to attend mass on sundays and holy days, that precept of the church doesn’t cease to exist because a renegade order outside of the Church says so. Please consider this, if the magisterium of the Church, (the Pope and all the Bishops in communion with him), lack the authority to tell us what rites are licit and valid. Please tell me where the sspx gets the authority to make such a call!
The people dont know the dangers of the new Mass because the shepherds don't want them to know.
Praise God for your clarifications because the devils are very smart in trying to dissuade us from Mass.
There is One Cross on Calvary that saves...perhaps the other two crosses are the parables for this 'time of the spectators' "lukewarm" crisis.
Traditionals tend to think there is a Latin Mass on every street corner. As if people have a choice to go to the Novus Ordo or Latin Mass. Most of us don't. If you keep your family away from the mass for years and years and years they are going to grow up without the Catholic Church, I don't care how well-intended you are. No sacraments, no Mass, no Catholic children. Maybe I'm just fortunate, but in all my 60 years of going to the Novus Ordo Mass, I've never gotten the impression that the priest is the same thing as the people or vice versa or that there is no actual sacrifice taking place. I think it would be beneficial for you to not use the most extreme examples of what could go wrong. It simply is not taking place at most Novus Ordo Masses. If that is happening it's the exception and not the rule and it is not fair for you to characterize it as such. I agree there is a crisis in the church but I have come to the opinion that you do not abandon the church in order to fix the church. We need to hunker, down pick out the best Novus Order we can find, and there are good ones, very reverent and go with that. God will not abandon us and he will see us through it eventually. This is what's called Keeping the Faith. If God can put up with it, so can we. We don't have to abandon the church to remain Catholic.
Exactly. I never got the idea put in my head that the NO was a mere meal (along with other stuff) until I started hearing from people like the SSPX and others like them. All of the so called "NO Catholics" I've ever met (even if they don't care about Catholicism) realize Catholicism teaches that an actual Sacrifice happens at Mass and we truly receive Christ's body Blood soul and divinity.
Validity means the mass actually happens, which applies even to the Orthodox mass. The sspx does not claim the new mass is invalid.Liceity means the mass is right and legal. The sspx believe the new mass is not licit because of the way it is done. So the new mass is actually valid then one can attend it without a doubt. There goes an explaination of the new mass whether one can attend or not. Another dilemma to Confuse Catholics.
"For God is not the God of dissension, but of peace: as also I teach in all the churches of the saints."
[1 Corinthians 14:33]
"But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil."
[Matthew 5:37]
I am a Traditionalist by the way. I live in a predominantly muslim country. In my country only one sspx chapel which is 3 hours or so travelling. And on sundays only. This is what sspx teaches I am confuse because of their Recognised and Resist policy.
I think Father beats around the bush here either the NO is verboten or it's not? I agree with him on his assessment but he gives no absolute cure? I'll do it for him, don't attend the NO if you want the true Mass. See how easy that is.
Is it allowed to attend a tlm but not by sspx such as on done by the fraternity of St. Peter or by other churches like st John Cantius?
That is more tricky question. It is certainly not as good as sspx. Although they serve in catholic way their teaching is based on the errors of second Vatican council. There are some exceptional priests but those are exceptions.
Yes, if they’re your only option, that’s fine. The SSPX would like/prefer you to support them specifically, but a proper Catholic worship is sufficient for you to save your soul, no matter the priestly order.
Good Question! This was the next episode we covered: ua-cam.com/video/lgCv5Rohu24/v-deo.html
How does the new mass hide the sacrifice of the mass?
One very obvious reason is look at the practice of Communion in the hand. That's a horrifying abuse of the Body of Christ.
E. G. By the priest welcoming everyone on the beginning instead of preparatory prayers (Introibo ad altare...)
It avoids at all cost expressing any Catholic teachings that Protestants don't accept.
It refers to the mass as a meal, a supper, a meeting, a gathering of "people of God", a Eucharistic celebration, but it hardly ever calls the mass a sacrifice. And when it does call the mass a sacrifice, it only says "a sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving", something Lutherans, Anglicans and many Prots accept.
It never calls the mass a propitiatory sacrifice, or a sacrifice in atonement for sins.
No, I can't agree, those faults in the NO Mass are bad, seriously bad, but they do not cancel out the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. No matter how awful it gets, I don't believe we should abandon him to the heretics, anyone going through a struggle with their faith needs to do what Catholics have always done - pray, do penance, go to Confession. I think its falling into satan's trap to say we have no obligation to go to Mass on Sunday.
This is actually nothing new, the Church has always taught that if there is no Catholic Mass available nearby, one is dispensed from his obligation to attend mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation. A man living in Antarctica has no obligation to go to mass, because there is no mass there! He still has the duty to sanctify the Lord's day in other ways, but he is definitely not committing any sin by not being able to attend the Catholic mass.
The real question is: Is the new mass a Catholic mass? And this problem has been sufficiently answered in this series.
People you need to read the great sacrilege by father James Wathen
Try The Robber Church, by late Patrick Henry Omlor, it's CLEARLY explained the problem with NOM !
I have a church in my town that offers NOM and TLM, and there is an SSPX church 25 miles away. Is it ok for me to go to the local one or is it too afflicted by modernism?
Basically what he is saying is since Vatican 2 council this new age church is not catholic, therefore they agree with archibshop Donald Sanborn
It makes no sense to talk about ‘licit’ outside the discipline of Church. The word means ‘legal’, in this case according to Canon Law. You can make the basic point wanted here without using the word ‘licit’ in a manner unknown to ecclesiastical order.
Sorry, if someone lives in a diocese they should be obedient to their bishop (who does not offer a dispensation for their obligation when they can easily attend an NO mass) not to a “canonically irregular” religious society. That’s the true Catholic faith.
But isn’t it sinful to not know the truth?
Is Father explicitly saying it is a sin to attend the Novus Ordo?
He says it’s a sin to actively participate in a New Mass if one knows the dangers and problems inherent in the Novus Ordo.
@@TheDeanMachineTV how can the magisterium promulgate an intrinsically evil mass, that would proove the church to be defective. This argumentation can only make sense if the current magisterium and the pope are invalid. Why aren't you a sedevecantist?
@@Daniel_Abraham1099 or it is to say that the pope paul 6 never declared that he was using the authority as the successor of peter and the magisterium of the church regarding the council and the mass. The evil allowed now will be for the gentiles who have lost the faith to fight their way through their own self love and hope they see the Father's true love. God convert hearts.
@@Daniel_Abraham1099 In the history of the Church, laity who resisted heresy/error have NEVER been excommunicated for the misfortune of being under a heretical prelate. When Nestorius was excommunicated, the laity under him weren’t excommunicated, ESPECIALLY if they resisted him. There was, however, a warning for laity not to go around pronouncing non-canonical excommunications, even though they were proven right in that case. In short, there’s way too many canonical nuances and delicacies that need to be considered to simply cut myself off from Rome.
@@Daniel_Abraham1099 The Mass itself is not sinful, and thus not magisterially promulgated as such. The argumentation falls more along the line of: The Mass is valid, however in its ambiguity is susceptible to liturgical abuses and alterations which cause a devaluation of the authentic Catholic Faith as traditionally taught and practiced. Being aware of and recognizing these dangers, it would be sinful for you to continue to attend such a Mass with full knowledge of the existence of healthier alternatives.