The TRUTH about FAKE SHIRTS! | Counterfeit kits
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
- In today's episode, we speak to Ben Houston, an expert in tackling counterfeits. We go really in depth on this one, to help you understand this world better.
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Instead of "brand protection", how about "consumer protection" or "fan protection"? Who is standing up for the ordinary folks who want to wear their team's colours but cannot afford a shirt that costs £80? Meet the fans halfway and charge a reasonable price. Take a leaf from how music streaming services conquered illegal downloads. Charge a reasonable price and fans will gladly support the brands through legal channels.
The problem in the music industry is streaming services don’t really support bands at all. The fees are so small. There’s definitely a middle ground though, and whether that’s lowering prices, or making new kits less often, brands can 100% do more!
"What about the fan who wants to buy an illegal product but can't"- what a strange argument. You don't NEED to buy the latest kit every year. But agree manufacturers need to do more and prices need to come down.
@@TheKitBreakdown👏
@@TheKitBreakdownAbsolutely this. Using music streaming services is a terrible example. They’re brilliant from a consumer perspective in the short term, but awful for the musicians who get paid barely anything, especially the non-major label independent musicians. And those conditions will actually be worse for consumers in the long term because of the lack of incentive for musicians to create (there are plenty of independent groups who no longer release music because of these conditions already), and it’s also changing how musicians write music due to how services payout on their rates (shorter songs with more concise structure, putting hooks at the start, etc.) which is effecting their creative process and making some popular music even more uniform than it was before. It’s terrible for the musicians.
Mate Google the cost breakdown of a shirt and you might never order 1 again! Adidas make £23.47 profit per £80 top!!! Then the retailers get £26.40! If u buy from the Adidas shop they get both and make £50 profit per top
Great video. While I can understand your frustrations as kit designers, until kits become legitimately affordable for the average fan fakes will continue to become more and more popular.
not just affordable, it just seems that the fan jerseys are expensive and pure unbreatheable plastic, nothing to do with the developed technology made for the players
Would defo prefer clubs to keep kits for 2 seasons. Gives kits a much better opportunity to become iconic. Too many forgettable kits these days.
Clubs are definitely like the old guy in the fable with his golden goose. They're strangling their customers that they laughably call "supporters"
@@andrewphippsphillips1455yeah even of the kits fire I'll rather wait until a end of season sale to get it
Good point, a lot of them are forgettable. It's hard to pay big money for a worse looking kit than you already have.
kits become iconic if your team isnt shit. Im a chelsea fan. last iconic kit was when they won the champions league. that kit had the yellow stripe. its remember because that season was a success.
Football shirts are way too expensive and in developing countries this becomes an even bigger problem. A freaking shirt shouldn't cost like half a monthly minimum salary.
Edit: Btw this video is doing an incredible job on selling fake shirts. No one is gonna feel sorry for these gigantic companies.
The main problem for us isn’t how it affects the companies, but the other aspects involved in these criminal enterprises. Consumers need to be aware of what their £30 football shirt is helping to fund!
@@TheKitBreakdownI hope I don’t come off rude or ignorant, but a moral stance is just not possible in football, atleast top tier football like the PL, or UCL. The very foundation of the sport in many places has been nothing but a facade to hide shady transactions and sports washing, and what not. While the point is true, it’s just a sad reality that, while not optimal is there. I would buy an original kit of a team like York city or Middlesbrough, or some league one team or lower tier teams. Pushing to PL and National teams, it’s a lot harder to justify paying so much.
Word yet the clubs don't care lmao
@@TheKitBreakdown Most of the people involved in the production in the clothing industry are exploited. For one current example, garment makers are attempting to sue Nike for millions in unpaid wages and in 2017 the Guardian reported on 500 workers being hospitalised working for sportswear manufacturers. These companies ARE morally responsible for their supply chains, and to pretend that they offer a more morally conscionable product is to endorse the colonial and capitalist propaganda that people in 'brand protection' are employed to produce. The problem is with the imperialist, capitalist structure of global production - not whether the shirts are cheap enough or if the counterfeit market is too big.
A kit lasting 2 seasons would be ideal, I’d probably buy more often then too!
The fact that these fakes can undercut the market with similar quality while still remaining profitable just highlights the greed involved when setting the prices of the official kits
It's much like the illegal streaming of football. People don't want to do it, people want they authentic product but ultimately it's becoming unaffordable for many. £70-£80 for a stadium jersey that is, let's be honest, getting almost like a fake version of a real kit. Couple that with how sensitive modern jerseys are to washing machines - plastic sponsors seem to come off/crack very easily. Football isn't a "rich man's" sport. If you're buying for children, buying for yourself to play 5 a side, etc., the price of a full kit is hard to justify at the minute.
This is all very true! Brands and companies need to think about the consumers as well as their finances
@@TheKitBreakdown sometimes not think but respect the consumers. The football fans love the designers and want to wear their "work". In Croatia, the national team jerseys would always stay at top prices 70-80 Euros (even 3-4 year jerseys), and it would get people angry that original Croatian jerseys in England, Canada,... would cost 5 pounds and stay full price in Croatia
@vibortravas2932 they don't care we are just a number or plot on a spread sheet to show their profit margins. I worked at a major sporting goods store in the states while in college. All these shirts are marked up 100 to 110% for retail. Distributors are paying a fraction of that which shows you the true value of the shirt. The shirts are so cheap that the retailer still makes profit on top of the brands and clubs. So even when you see the shirt go on "sale" thats still probably 50% mark up on the actual price. This guy was just spitting bs rubbish he knows the truth.
@vibortravas2932 sounds like the Croatia football team treats their fans more like money machines rather than loyal fans
@@shawklan27 realistically about 99% treat their fans this way
As soon as Player vs Replica kits began selling regularly in stores, it was game over for me. The vast difference in the Replicas, coupled with its rising cost, evaporated the magic of buying a Replica.
I bought some Code 7 Nike shirts, circa 2003, and there is barely a difference to the replicas I have of the very same shirts. Now, however, the FAKE player-edition kits online are almost impossible to differentiate to the authentic player-edition shirts, and are 1/8 the price of just a Replica.
Fortaleza and Ceara are some of fiercest rivals in Brazil but united in a initiative to solve the issue of piracy in the most amicable way possible with their fans.
Both clubs are from the northwest region of Brazil, where people usually are poorer, so the fake jerseys flooded the markets and sell much more than the originals until they launched the "POP" jerseys, which have more reasonable price and quality for the average to actually purchase and support their team directly instead of criminals.
And Fortaleza went even further and gave discounts to fans who retrieved their fake jerseys in their official stores if they bought a new one there. It was an instant success, and now during their matches you hardly see any of the pirate jerseys. It coincides with the most prosperous era of Fortaleza's history, which makes it much more beautiful.
This could only be done because their kits are made at home, and I doubt any of the brands that dominate the sports market would be willing to release "POP" jerseys for every team anytime soon; but it goes to show that the clubs could be a bit more passionate for their supporters as much as they are for their team. Sure, the million dollar contract is awesome for the clubs, but if they can produce at home (totally or partially) and have an approximate profit or more than they get with Adidas, Nike, Kappa or whatever... why they just don't do that already?
I'd never knowingly buy a fake shirt but for the dude to claim that it's morally wrong to buy fake shirts when Nike/Adidas etc use cheap asian labour to make the shirts is laughable.
Also when they cost about £2 to make but will still sell them for £85 or £125
I support a lower league club and most of the time we keep our home kits for 2 seasons, presumably for cost reasons just as much as any other.
Another good thing about having kits for 2 years is it gives them a chance to become iconic and memorable. When you have 3 new ones a year you don’t remember half of them.
i get the designer being mad about being copied but is not like he gets royalties from the authentics that are sold, if anything having your creation massively counterfeited means you did a great job
Just to make a point on your theory on the palace shirt, I can guarantee absolutely no one is paying double the price for those minor details that you as a designer might consider fundamental differences, the average consumer doesn’t care about those tiny details, if the badge is just ludicrously bad then yes they might go with a genuine.
as someone who has bought knock off shirts and have many of them, I haven’t even seen many of the real ones to know the difference in material and designs, so if you don’t know you can’t care and my final point, anyone considering buying knock offs isn’t doing it with the thought process of which is better, they’re most likely doing it because they either can’t afford or like me just point blank refuse to spend a fortune on a shirt every single year, the real ones also don’t last, the sponsors, PL badges and name on nearly all tops have fallen off, in my experience the quality of genuine shirts is actually atrocious too.
Hit the nail on the head with the retro section. It's a product you simply can't get anywhere else - the club version is missing kit manufacturers and sponsors, and is still expensive. You can find 99% accurate counterfeit versions for £20. Add to that, a retro version avoids the "needing the new kit every season" problem
My kids have fake kits, they get them dirty and use them all the time. If I spent more I would be dead precious and careful with when they wear them. Also a full kids kit with name, number and logo, shorts and socks for £12.
As a United fan I think fake kits are great. They let me support United without giving money to the greedy glazers
Really fascinating video thanks gents.
As has been said loads by others, the main driver for this is price, and if the fakes are getting so good an expert can't spot them, why would the average fan care?
The point on families is spot on. I support a championship club and its £55 for a kids mini kit, even with marketing and mark ups its disgusting and unjustified.
Had no idea about how bad the working conditions are and where the money goes. That said, is there any legitimate evidence of this? The cynical side of me says brands could just be peddling that as propaganda to make consumers be 'ethical'.
Can I just say, I really appreciate the honesty you guys show in this video. So many commentaries on this issue get preachy about the illegality and immorality of fakes, without acknowledging the financial issue facing working families. So, I'm really glad you guys didn't just blindly defend the manufacturers and their pricing. Hopefully a happy medium can be found, where we can still support official products but at a reasonable price.
On a side note, I think returning to a two year rotation for new shirts would really help. Paying out 100 quid for a new shirt is still too much but if it was one new kit per year instead of three or four then it would be a good start.
As for that claim that its unfair because Nike don't run sweatshops - erm, "a 2018 report by the Clean Clothes Campaign, found that Adidas and Nike still pay “poverty” wages to workers."
I think we’ve got to the point where people are used to and even excited by the prospect of new kits every season. As with tv subscriptions, the kit manufacturers are pushing the prices to levels where people will go rogue to save some money.
One more thing, why don’t manufacturers (Adidas in particular) produce official replica jerseys of old classics? They could do this with federations and clubs they still have contracts with (Germany, Spain, Argentina etc..)They’ve done it a bit, but they could in effect rerelease and resell their a lot of their back catalogue.
Well said in your latter point. I think a lot of Newcastle United fans will be hopeful that with the return of Adidas, retro kits such as the 1995-97 top in this video, the '97 & the '99 Newcastle Brown Ale sponsored tops will be re-released.... Ask a lot of youngsters (who were not even born when the iconic first 3 home shirts) and I can assure you they will have all wanted to have a newer version of something their parents will have worn when originally for sale
Just found your channel. Loved this video. As an avid kit collector especially older kits. It’s is getting harder and harder. Great content. Cheers!
I bloody LOVE this channel!!!
its insane how similar fake shirts are now, especially the player versions, they honestly fooled me when I saw them a few years back
Great episode again lads. Think it would be great if you could get an over the table camera? Like a birds eye view where we can really see the details you pick out when looking at the shirts
I'll never buy fakes, and I don't think anyone needs a shirt desperately enough to buy a fake (do you need the latest one every year?) but the clubs and manufacturers absolutely dont help the issue. As you say in this video, why do clubs need to release a suite of new kits every year? In response to the question Craig, I'd prefer a new home kit every two seasons, and happy to rotate away/third kits so you have fewer releases. And manufacturers could do more- the difference in price is just astronomical. You can buy a fake vapour knit shirt for about 10% the cost of an authentic, and as you show the fabric is almost indistinguishable, so how is the genuine one SO much more expensive? Any more info on that would be great. I understand that Nike and Adidas are held to account with the factories they use but I'm not sure I'm convinced they are 'ethical' anyway- ethical enough to justify 10x the cost? I doubt the people making them are paid less than local minimum wage which is a pittance. If the big manufacturers could prove me wrong that would be great, but it feels as though there's a reason clothing companies don't make films about their factories.
Thanks for the comments!
Let us look into some of what you’ve asked!
There’s a video by the athletic interest that covers this, and there are several costs involved as well. But I definitely agree, it’s certainly an option, and having like 4 kits release in a year is definitely not optimal.
I took a punt on a retro 70s Manchester United shirt and was astounded by how good the quality was. Let's face it, once you move your manufacturing to the car east, you lose control over it.
A new home every year, a new away shirt but the previous season's away becomes the third. United between 2006-2014 did this, the only expectation being the 07-09 home being kept for 2 seasons (released a new third shirt with an away instead). Home shirts are worn in at least half games minimum, whilst some away/thirds are maybe used 5 times a season if that. Gives a best of both worlds
For the last few years I've alternated between buying an official kit from the club shop one year, to a counterfeit the next. The quality is so similar that I can't justify paying the full club shop price every year. Great video as always lads.
Great watch as always lads. Would have loved for the reactions to the quality to be wholly different, but unfortunately the reality is they can be quite similar at times.
Great to have a go-to clip for the work the likes of Nike do to ensure workers are looked after. Always thrown up at sellers like myself when we mention fakes.
Would love to see shifts going back to 2 seasons. One thing that doesn’t get talked about is the environmental impact of releasing 3 new shifts every year. Also to note the argument for the price of new shirts is partly due to the technology is doubtful. I’m sure football shifts of the past were also at the height of the technology for there era. I used to regularly buy my teams new shirt but not anymore. The price is ridiculous now and I’ve not even mentioned the players kits.
How much more "technology" can be garnered from shirts these days. Vapo tech, climalite etc.
Great video, really informative
I'd prefer to go back to a new shirt every other year, but alternate home and away each year. So you get new home one season, next season you get the away one. My gripe is that if these fake companies can make these nearly as good as the original but charge peanuts in comparison then the disconnect is surely the greed of big corporations charging through the nose. Ones ethically wrong, ones morally wrong.
I go on holiday to Turkey and come back with a load of fake tops each time. Paying £100 for football tops is just scandalous and not something I'm ever going to do.
To bring my perspective on buying kits, as a fan of certain clubs there’s another spanner in the works. I’m a United fan and I don’t wanna give the Glazers any more money than they’ve already leeched off us, and I’m sure there’s plenty of fans of other clubs feel the same way. I personally haven’t bought a kit in years. In that situation I can see people going for a counterfeit, maybe buying one of the fake retro kits, almost as a way to get back at the owners. But then the people who suffer are the people who put hard work into creating the kit, and the people working in the dodgy counterfeit factories.
This is a great and very informative video, but it would be even better if we could see close ups of all the details you talk about. Its hard for us to fully appreciate the differences if we cant see them.
Every two years for me - made the whole ‘new kit’ thing more exciting and surely made designers jobs easier in terms of a coming up with a new look every year
Rob! ❤️ how did I not know about this? Subscribed!
Can't blame people for buying fakes when official replicas cost a staggering £70-£50 on average when even fakes are almost on par quality wise with dem replicas clubs release on retail.
*Edit: it's crazy because I managed to snag a napoli home replica shirt for 49 euros which is around £43 despite them being recent serie A winners and champions league participants. So it comes down to greed nothing more. 😤
Got fakes in better condition than the real ones.
I'll admit that I do buy fake kits from time to time, especially if I love the look of a retro kit but can't afford the £150+ price. If new shirts were reasonably priced I'd have no trouble buying them. However, £80 for a replica and £110 for a pro version is simply ridiculous. You can get 8 fakes for that with little difference to the untrained eye! I see both sides though and if I like the design of a kit enough I'll get the official one and support the brands/designers.
Great video and insight on something we know very little about, keep up the good work.
We totally get that for sure, it’s really not easy for consumers. The main point with this video is to make sure you at least can make an informed decision. We totally understand the financial aspect and there’s no judgement here! Just make sure you’re careful with quality of the shirt etc as they don’t have to meet standards that authentic ones do, and can lead to some dodgy materials or toxins being in the shirts.
Knowledge is power, so they say! 🙌
@@TheKitBreakdown Definitely agree with what you've said here. Craig's trouble to spot the fakes says a lot about the quality they're putting out. Unbelievable how they get some of them so close. Hopefully more information comes to light about the conditions and mechanics of their trade to make that decision.
@@TheKitBreakdownwell said
My first consideration would be the pricing of kid size shirts needs to be massively reduced. If an adult wants to buy a shirt, I don’t see why they can’t pay the going rate (although 70 quid is a bit much) but having to buy for kids at the current pricing is actually disgraceful. The club, the kit manufacturer and the shirt sponsors all get indirect advertising from supporters walking around wearing the shirt so why can’t they factor that into the cost of the replica (maybe a way to subsidise the cost for the walking advertisement). Anyway it’s too pricey currently, and as the gents have repeatedly said, kits are getting churned out every year and really are not innovative or good - so maybe stagger releases for a start.
This blokes job involves not going to the root of the cause - the clubs and companies he works for.
Thanks for this. Quite an interesting discussion. It's something that I've discussed before in the classes I teach. I work as a academic in a business school (University of Essex). This has come up both in modules on Business Ethics, and more frequently in the module I teach on Management in the Creative & Cultural Industries. One year during student presentations a woman brought in a selection of Louis Vuitton handbags and asked the class to try and tell which ones were real or fake. And much like the discussion here it was really hard to tell unless you knew very specific things to look for.
When I discus this with students we often end up having similar discussions. I'm often struck by some of the student counter arguments in defense. For instance I've had students argue that counterfeits even while not directly making money for a brand still enhance its reputation and image by being counterfeited. I've listened to people argue that too much of the cost for branded goods is for Intellectual Property Rights, and thus if more money goes to the people physically making them they might even be thought of as more ethical.
But aside from that in the video you make a few empirical claims that I was wondering if you could provide some more evidence for, as in references, sources, etc...
1. Claiming that the common argument that many counterfeits are made in the same factories as 'legitimate' items is not true. What's the source on that? My hunch here is this argument arises precisely because of how hard it can often be to tell the difference between 'real' and 'fake' such that it seems quite intuitive the same people and processes must be used.
2. Counterfeit production is involved in drugs and guns, but not in the cool outlaw way, more like the exploitative way. Again some sources for this would be cool, because that's sounds totally plausible, but it also could easily sound like scaremongering (thinking here of anti-drug campaigns that often make claims about all sorts of malfeasance connected to the production of illegal narcotics, sometimes true, and sometimes in a very baseless way).
To the first point, Craig himself, as he has been involved with finding factories in Asia to produce Nike Football products as their Global Creative Director. So that’s from first hand experience. So when he talks about working conditions etc, it’s because he knows first hand that a lot of the myths spread to justify counterfeits just aren’t true. The counterfeiters also manage to produce such good fakes as they can get hold of the original products, deconstruct them, and copy them. It’s happening on such a scale with a level of sophistication that makes it difficult for a consumer to spot differences in final products.
On the second point, this is all experience that Ben has had when dealing with these counterfeiters first hand. The counterfeit products trade is just one arm of many organised crime groups, “mafias” etc. that helps finance their other operations. This is something that Ben would be able to talk into better than us, though.
a kit change every two years (with home and away staggered) would be the ideal solution in my opinion and the outgoing away kit could be kept on an extra year as the third kit - I'm sure that has been done a few times before (thinking the Man United "V" pattern kit - I'm sure they kept the white shirt with red V as the third kit for the following season though the sponsor changed I think)
I usually wait till the end of the season to buy kits when the manufacturers like Nike and Adidas start slashing the prices. Still get a real kit and don't have to break the bank. Only exceptions would be if I want one with a name on the back or if I'm attending a match in person. Makes it feel a little more special and worth paying the price at that moment.
My favourite tactic is to wait until kit manufacturers change. I think I got a couple of reasonably priced Nike Man United shirts (now without the Chrysler logo) in about 2015 just before the switch to Adidas.
I used to do this. Plus if you buy at the end of the season and you can still get name printing, you can get a player who had a good season and it’s like a little memento of the year they had. The last shirt I ever bought was at the end of the season Rashford came through so I have a Rashford 49 kit which is a nice reminder of his rise to fame.
Atleast back in the day, clubs and nations started to lengthen the time their kits would be in use/circulation for. I remember in the early 00s, clubs would use away or 3rd kits for 2 seasons in a row, and would state their life span on the purchase ticket or upon the shirt itself(Arsenal 03/05 + England). Back in the 90s, many home and away shirts could be used for 2 seasons in a row easily. The quality of these items would actually be much better than the stuff made in the far east nowadays(whether thats authentic or counterfit). If a team decided to wear the same shirt for 2-3 years now and advertised it as "saving the planet/materials", while saving supporters money, i believe fans would get behind it much more. The greed in the game is very real and the counterfit market exists because of it.
Absolutely! And it would help designers too as they’d be able to get more creative rather than churning out kits constantly!
@@TheKitBreakdown Sustainable, sexy and money saving, while lasting longer than the usual. Produce a few extra to cover 2 seasons, advertise and market it in a proper way(making sure the design is less copy+paste and more unique compared to todays stuff). And charge a little less. What about a reversible shirt?! Home one side and away/3rd the other. Now there's a job for you lads!!
I would rather my club released a kit once every two years. I am a kit collector and love buying kits but I couldn’t imagine being a Napoli fan the last couple seasons.
I think of something that I would call a Toni Kroos model: clubs can release a new home shirt each two years, a new away shirt each 1.5 years, but in a secondary colour of this club, and a new third kit with any design possible, also each 1.5 years, but in different half of a year (for example, let the club introduce new away at the beginning of 23/24 season and new third at the beginning of the year 2024).
Slight increase in technology?
I know the guy works for the brand protection agency but come on, these things cost almost nothing to make and it’s not the clubs seeing the insane profits, there are much more reasonable points to be made for not supporting fakes, saying that is just playing consumers for idiots. Speaking as a designer myself, companies need to be more ethical both from a manufacturing perspective and a consumer perspective because the primary reason there’s an issue with fakes is greed. I wouldn’t mind paying £70 for a shirt if I knew the person that made it wasn’t working in a sweatshop being paid a pittance and that the clubs themselves were getting a fairer cut. I’d never buy a fake shirt but the manufacturers disgust me.
Late but great topic, keeping kits for 2 seasons vs now was good pointer.
Totally agree that amount charged for football shirts has driven counterfeit market. I definitely see more match going fans buying counterfeit.
I'd definitely prefer two year cycle for home shirts, Brentford did do that for their home and it looks like theyre doing it for their away this year
If I buy one, it's still the authentic one. From a collecter's point of view, a fake one just isn't right. However I do understand people not wanting to pay £80 - £100 for a shirt, especially in a family with kids where you'll have to buy several every year. I read a rumour that Nike was considering going back to the old ways and keeping the home kit for 2 years, which would be my preference.
Aside from this, does anybody know what's stopping the counterfeiters to put the correct productcode on a shirt? That's my number one go to when I'm buying old shirts at places like Vinted. I just ask a picture of the internal label and by this I know (at least I hope) that it's an authentic one. Would be a nightmare if the counterfeiters start using the correct productcodes.
Agreed, once they get those labels right we have no chance. It will affect the whole industry those as genuine retailers would end up selling the fakes, as even experts wouldnt be able to tell the difference (as this video shows).
It’s quite a scary thought! We were shocked at how good these fakes were, and how some were impossible to tell even with the authentic shirt to compare it to. It’s going to get more and more difficult
The truth is that the individual shirt costs the manufacturer far less than they are charging the fans, until that changes and these manufacturers stop ripping off fans and exploiting them then the counterfeit trade is going to continue, there is absolutely no reason to charge £75-90 for any football shirt and that cost is on top of the expense of a season ticket, travel to games etc. I think you should try to put pressure on Nike/Adidas/Puma etc. to actually charge affordable prices for their shirts. I have a few fakes because I wasn't prepared to pay those kind of prices for something I might wear 2 or 3 times.
I tend to only buy authentic kits when theyre 40-50% off, which is why all of my kits are outdated but that doesnt matter really, im not obsessed with being up to date anyway.
34:47 interesting to see the guy who designed the kit explain how he feels about a fake. Loving the show.
Thanks a lot 🙌
I would personally prefer an alternate year release between the home kit & away kit. Just like the 90s to early 2000s. I'm so glad that adidas & sometimes umbro are releasing remakes of their retro shiirts.
Hi guys, great video as ever. So a significant amount of shirt sale revenue comes from the sponsorship/licensing money from the kit manufactures (as opposed to actual profit on the sales), if I remember what I've seen before?
Wondering what your thoughts are on a medium club accepting a loss in revenue to drive shirt sales, from a marketing perspctive?
If a club took on a 40m loss from selling shirts for cheap, could it make the returnd in the long term?
I'd say too, if even you don't have dependents looking a shirt, buying even two a year is extortionate and especially in contrast to template shirts which are much cheaper. I'd love to see a lower price cotton version of these modern kits
1 every 2 years without a doubt! I’m in a position I can afford to buy all the kits but I’d rather be only having to buy one once every 2 years
As a seller of vintage nfl jerseys, I can relate to how saturated the market is with cheap, nasty, fake jerseys. It’s a process in itself to teach customers the key differences to look for.
I think part of the issue is that when Ben describes the problem with the counterfeit industry, many people will (arguably justifiably) say the brands are guilty of the same things (immorality, worker exploitation, shareholder profiteering, waste, carbon footprint, poor quality etc) and the only real difference is the difference in scale and legality.
Combine that with the extortionate prices brands charge for official products annually, the countless 3rd/special versions, the lack of retro re-makes combined with the insane prices for original retros, and then the low prices for counterfeit versions that to the untrained eye look very similar, and it's a perfect storm that makes it all understandable.
Much like the music industry in the '90s and '00s, the industry has created the conditions for a problem it now needs to solve.
Clubs/manufacturers definitely release far too many kits - not to mention training gear - but a home shirt every two seasons probably still wouldn't do much to encourage me to buy. It's still far too much; I'd still refuse on principle.
I've bought from Chinese sellers but will stop doing that now too, having learned of the humanitarian issues that come with it. Therefore my shirt piggy bank will be saved for genuine retros from now on. NUFC away 97/98 is the object of my affections atm!
Love the channel.
In the 90s my mom struggled to buy the real thing and kits averaged around £40/£50 back then I say the more options people have the better because most of these top clubs have criminal elements if you dig deep enough.
Would only buy retro kits, something that u simply can't get hold of anymore
I collect Blades shirts from 84 to today. Last season I bought the original and snide version. The snide version was better quality, even instances on TV where the club badges came off the player's shirts during the match! Although we did move from adidas to errea😂
I'm still leaning towards reversible home/away kits at a slightly higher value.
Possibly even staggering the interior 2nd/3rd away.
Firstly, love these videos!
Secondly, One every two seasons (With some limited editions occassionally). I'm a celtic fan and we've had 4 kits the last two seasons. That's too much for families - especially, when they're retailing for like £75 a pop. Spread payments like Klarna/ClearPay obviously can help here but it's too much
💯
I've had two genuine Napoli shirts with pen scribble on the labels. I even used their authentication tools to make sure the shirts were genuine.
I bought a lovely AIK away shirt with Larsson on the back, had a retro Nike logo....ten pound.
this year's away as next year's third is an easy compromise that still allows clubs to sell two new kits every year. There's also the option to make more interesting pre-match and training wear (at a cheaper price point than match-wear) - few clubs really exploit this option, tho Arsenal is an obvious exception.
What I'd really like to see tho is outreach & education from clubs and brands. The perception that clubs are greedy is most pervasive among fans who don't understand the economics or the moral aspects. Simply relying on brand police is shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.
Pesonally speaking, i also dont feel the imperative to buy new kit every season. I'm a believer that old kit makes you look more of a veteran, but thats just me 😂
The fact is real kits are too expensive for most of the fanbase they are made for, the fake market is making the same kits that are the same quality as the original, you can say it's fake but it's the same design, material, feel and look as the original and if you think fakes are shit quality you obviously aren't buying them from a good supplier, there are loads of website that sell top quality fake kits for half the price of the original and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
I can just barely afford new kits for me and my kids each season, and I justify it by knowing that I'm contributing to the club. But I can't fault anyone with a family who can't afford real shirts buying counters for half the price. I do own a number of vintage Arsenal 90s and early 00s kits that I bought in the mid-2000s when real ones were still available but now the price of those kits when they even pop up on a reputable site is insane and there are all kinds of counterfeits available on eBay from places like Ukraine and the Far East.
Im a big cr7 and messi fan since 2006 i regularly buy my jerseys in auctions on ebay and the very first thing i ask is for the product code and i also ask them to measure it why because most fakes the sizing is off and the fakes never get the code right. Some people are amazes by my collection and they ask me if they are all real and im proud to say yes as all have a product code to back it up and i can tell right off the bat which shirt is a fake by the stitching the color of the jersey and the placement of the team badge or sponsor nowadays its hard but i always tell people a real shirt is more of a investment than a fake. A few months ago i sold a messi jersey for 435 it was from his debut season at Barcelona and thats my most expensive sale so far I've made
Please do a video on the coventry city kit issues
I would like to see a 1 kit every season and push the away kit as the third in its second season like what Nike used to do with united kits
Real & fake shirts have a thing in common, they're made in a sweatshop that pay their workers poorly.
Love the video, great debate from you all, unfortunately I’ve been stung buying what I thought to be a genuine shirt, then they turned out to be fake, I only buy genuine made shirts be it stadium or player issue ones, thankfully I’ve managed to get some of them when they’re discounted. I’m a big guy, 6’2” tall I normally take 2XL up to a 4XL all depending on the manufacturer?? The Chinese fake shirt makers seem to do Asian sizing. So can never get a fake one in big enough to fit anyway, I’ve been collecting shirts since 1995, so I loved and wish they continued to do home shirts every 2 years instead of every year??
an authentic one here where I live costs around 30% of the minimum wage
It comes down to the bottom line of price
Many have said no one wants to pay top dollar for a sub-par shirt, like most things the past few years price has gone up and quality has gone down.. I'm a Milan fan and the player version of our away jersey this season feels like fish & chip shop paper
This creates markets for counterfeiters and if brands were smart they'd re-release kits themselves
If Nike officially released the 2002 Brazil home jersey it would be the #1 seller this year
Unfortunately I can't see the price dropping or re-releasing jerseys
As always love the video guys keep it up!
For me, I won't buy a fake because I don't know what the money funds, and I also then don't have the real thing. That matters to me more than others I think. The prices are absolutely absurd for real kits, so I get why people don't buy them. What I don't understand is why they have to have the latest shirt immediately and so badly that they'll get a fake. Fast fashion is rife in football - last season's kit is still absolutely fine and if you wait you'll almost certainly find the shirt you want at some sort of discounted rate.
I live in developing country, been a Newcastle fan since 2010 and I've never bought a kit brand new fresh from announcement... mostly bought my replica kits used after 2-3 season late (authentic one usually dont even last a season so no need to bother looking for them). For the newest kit I always buy fake counterfeits, 1 kit cost like 2 big mac instead of 1/3 of my monthly salary and I don't even have to worry abouy ruining them unlike my real kits since they're ao cheap.
It purely comes down to price. I’ve stopped buying current kits and purely buy retro, because they’re almost half the price. It would be interesting to see the rise in price across the years because it feels like it was only a few years ago that you’d pay around £50, whereas now you’re looking at around £70 for a Villa top.
TSN did a documentray or part series about this. "Faking It: Cracking down on counterfeits" I'm sure you can find the videos on UA-cam regarding this problem.
For so long football has treated fans as nothing more than cash cows. What used to be the game of the working class has become financially so out of reach for many. I cannot blame them one bit for going down the fake route. Just like with replica trainers, the quality is only going to improve and will soon be indistinguishable from the real thing.
Greed is not sustainable.
I think the thing with anything thats counterfeit is that ultimately in most cases you're contributing to organised crime. I've often toyed with the idea of buying a high end fake watch so I don't have to wear my real one out and about with the risk of it being damaged or getting mugged myself but still cant bring myself to do it...
As a dad, I buy my little boy a kit on Black Friday when they usually drop by 25% and then thats it. If I want something I'd either wait til the end of the season when they drop in price drastically or buy the training kit which is usually 50% cheaper than even the 'replica kit'.
Here in Malaysia, the counterfeit industry is so developed there are even different grades in quality to suit different price points. 😅 And it's no longer a surprise to find street vendors selling them openly outside stadiums. There's even a popular UA-camr who reviews fake international club shirts of the highest grades. Sad but that's reality.
Back to one every 2 years. No doubt about it
Fans are getting ripped off. Make the authentic kits affordable and people wouldn’t buy fakes.
I only tend to wear footy shirts around the house so I’d rather get 8-9 fakes that are still good quality compared to 1 shirt, I buy clubs training shorts and have a couple of PSG Jordan stuff that’s real but that’s because I’d wear that as an every day outfit so it depends on what I’m buying it for. If I had a couple of kids that wanted all the kits though I can see why parents would get fakes too because it’s a never ending expensive cycle
Currently people are holding onto phones longer than getting a new one every year because the average phone is over £1000 same goes with football shirts. More expensive they are the less they may sell and the counterfeit market will provail. This is because of the propaganda of every year a new shirt to be released. So every 2 seasons may be the next step if the prices increase any more
Id be happy with home and away every year, away becomes the third kit for the season after and so on
Definitely comes down to morals, because brands only care about the money. Unfortunately those who buy fakes also have the same money issue but in the opposite direction.
Get the demand and the need as a fashion item but I don't think putting kits on a 2 year cycle would change that? MLS do this (despite their extortionate prices) and it works well. As someone who loves seeing new shirts by all teams I'd still prefer 2 year cycles for more than financial issues.
alternating releases so each home/away lasts for 2 years, 3rd kits could be every year as a fashion item
Kids today aren't just fans of clubs....but fans of players too....also popular UA-camrs also push collecting different kits. So a kid now not only wants a 'Villa' shirt but also wants a Real Madrid Bellingham, a Bayern Kane, Miama Messi, PSG Mbappe shirts
Yet another example of football’s viscous circles. Football shirts are continually going up in price bc Nike, adidas, etc are having to pay more and more for club deals. However, whenever a club isn’t getting more and more money from these football shirt producers, fans complain that club executives aren’t maximizing commercial possibilities. And this we know is a must, bc football clubs have to maximize revenues to be able to compete in the ever inflating transfer market.
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Cov city’s new home shirt isn’t out yet ; but it’s been available from China for a month for a tenner delivered ; how does that work
They’ll never stop it places like dh gate are totally legal due to the rules in China.. my mate got his daughter a Liverpool shirt from dh gate for £12
Availability is an issues as well. When Adidas released a limited edition kit for Italy's 125th anniversary it sold out in moments (at a cost of $300!). What's a collector or fan to do when the price is high AND the availability is low.
It’s a great point! It’s tough on the consumers
I much prefer once every two years for home shirt only but the price must come down, I still own a man United shirt from 2016 that only cost me £20 in retail store sale but since then, price has gone bonkers and I think they need to lower it down if the company encourage people to buy the actually shirt rather than fake version especially how poor the economic has become now. Some people would buy for fashion and some prefer fake for cheaper reason
The pressure to kit our families x 3 kits every single season, is obscene.
Social science - the kit manufacturers and football clubs have CREATED the counterfeit market themselves, by their kit launch strategy. When I was a mid teen in the mid eighties clubs had the same kits for 2-5 years, now they launch 3 per season.