Thank you for taking intended audience seriously! Designers and publishers spend a ton of time and energy to focus on that…yet it’s often overlooked by reviewers, especially for more casual games
Honestly this is one of the best SUSD episodes in ages (and I've loved plenty of recent ones). The Alan Dad segment calling back to all the heist bits was a work of genius. Probably wouldn't get the game, but I loved watching the review
Spot on Matt. I’m a gamer, but I don’t actually know how to play poker, but being a gamer meant I could pick this up. But the perfect audience is the guys who know how to play poker but don’t play other games. I watched this exact scenario play out at a kids birthday party yesterday, as three ppl who don’t game sat down for this game with three people who do and they all picked it up and loved it. And as you said, as a person who loves games, that was wonderful. It took the three non-gamers that much closer to saying yes to a different type of game in the future 🎉🎉🎉
I really did not see the SU&SD Recommends badge coming, but your justification for it makes so much sense. I happen to be a fan of the casual games as much as I am of the more heavyweight options (and inbetween) and that's because your potential audience is so much bigger. I've brought with me casual tabletop games on occasions that I knew there would be downtime and I never had a problem getting some games in especially when they were quick. And the feeling when a newcomer starts to ask for another round is just unbeatable. They may never break into even the next tier of complexity, but at least you brought them the joy of sitting around the table with some friends.
I was at a small gaming convention last week, and this game came up again and again. And we had a blast with it. It's more of a pub game than anything else, and with the right group of people, it's tons of fun, especially during the late hours. I'll also add that it gets much harder with six players.
@@mercury187 Then I would definitely recommend six players. Those were our most energetic and enjoyable games, by far. And get some fun, type-A personalities involved too, if you can.
This feels like a mechanism to train people to suck less at poker. "You mean if I pay attention to what people are representing with their actions, I can figure out what they might have and thus play better? Gasp!"
The script and editing on this one are TOP. NOTCH. I'm amazed by this homage to the film. And it conveys the content of the review beautifully. I would slow clap, but instead we will all stand in front of a fountain and look at each other, then slowly walk away.
On initial overview of the game I was totally gonna skip this. But your points about this being a good easy intro game completely sold me. Especially considering how easy it’s been to sell ppl on Balatro by just telling them “oh it’s like poker”
I like the concept, but I can't find the audience for it.... Either you get poker, and you'd rather play poker (sorry, poker just is more interesting than the Gang when everyone knows what they are doing. If people dont know how poker works, they don't like it because poker hands are confusing. So you need people who: understand poker, but hate playing it for money, but still kind of like playing it without money. That's just such a small cross-section of people to target - people who know how to play a game but have a problem with the part of the game most people who like the game like most?
I wasn't very sold on this game, I was initially thinking "hmmm, but idk, Poker isn't a very popular game here..." and then I kind of realized that it's actually a brilliant design, because you can just grab a regular deck of cards from your region, a local game that is popular in your region, a bunch of poker chips, and adapt this idea to ANY traditional card game...That's actually pretty brilliant.
“Wedge that mother open.” This video is a heist of genius proportions, a wonderful conceit, and reminded me what is so great about your work (besides your impeccable delivery, Matt)… you got me watching a whole video on a game I didn’t care about. You thank your audience, but the thanks has to go to you guys for creating videos so entertaining, even Alan dad will watch them. This is a genuine work of art!
As I was watching this, before you got to the 'twist', I was thinking the same thing, this both doesn't look like the game for me, but feels like the game I need. The Mind being another game, we've been able to pull at with many people and they all had a more satisfying evening out than the other people thought they were getting, and this feels like more of that.
This review started out as informative, then moved seamlessly into Matt Berry-style comedy and then ended up being incredibly sweet and even emotional towatds the end....SUSD have an amazing way of creating and re-inventing Art whilst simultaneously appearing to just simply review it...Matt Lees I salute you, somehow you have a way of providing genius time and time again. Hats off, very very cool 🎩❤😎
This really *does* seem like an interesting take on poker, cutting the competitive betting and instead learning how to read others' hands! Also, thank you to whoever edited in the high five sounds in at 5:27, and I appreciated the "painting replacement" heist skit at 8:55. .u.
I'm just going to say, I would be totally down if SU&SD started focusing a little more on finding good "gateway games". I'm on the hunt to be a better games ambassador, and part of that is keeping my ear to the ground on the very best accessible games.
I appreciate reviews like this. This last year, I've been able to get our team to play games at lunch every day. Games like Sea Salt and Paper, Love Letter, Scout, Cat In The Box, Flip 7 and now The Gang are all great games that opened the gateway to enjoying games. This week one of my coworkers joined me at Mox Boarding house with my "gaming group" and we played Fromage. He did better than I did. All this to say, you need these games, some variety, and consistency in playing to help people feel comfortable enough to try the bigger games you like too. So please keep doing reviews for those types of games too.
7:25 As a matchstick person, I've always been a firm believer that if you need to add the adrenaline rush from the risk of losing something real and turn it from a game into gambling in order to make it fun, then that game was not a good game in the first place.
Poker is a bit like Root or any other zero-sum, hyper-interactive, hidden information game: Great to play if everyone is trying to win, annoying to play if not. I would argue poker even takes it to an extreme that if there are players not playing to win at the table it is not even a game anymore. That doesn't make it a bad game though, just one that takes the right group to play. If people at the table are invested and care about their matchsticks then there will be no issue, but if they are not there is no point in playing. That is where adding some stakes that gets everyone invested comes in. It doesn't even need to be money and it doesn't even need to be a lot if it is. It just needs to make people care about acting in their best interest (no matter how wide that range may be for a given person) because if they don't Poker doesn't have enough meat to hold interest without it like a Root or something else would have.
but poker is not a good game. its boils down to simple percentages. bidding and bluffing is what makes it a good game, and when you bid with matchsticks most of the bluffing goes away/
Sure, but I dont think trying to sell I Can't Believe It's Not Poker or Diet Poker-Pola to people who understand how poker works but don't like playing it... works. Maybe if you could introduce a gambling component to The Gang, it might work better, paradoxically. Something like a jackpot of money if you win (paid in by everyone), but your split gets worse if you are part of an alarm (eg. If you sequence 1324 on a round, 2 and 3 lose 5% of their cut each to 1 and 4.) If the Gang win, they divvy the jackpot based on the cut earned at the end. If they don't, the jackpot rolls over, and you might not be on the next heist. Yes, the best way to fix cooperative poker with no gambling may be to introduce gambling and co-optional (co-operative but with competition within the cooperation) elements. At that point, it all feels like reinventing a wheel to make a better spinny shape.
The key difference between this and The Mind seems like this has a logic puzzle that gives you interesting, even slightly crunchy info to work with. The Mind fundamentally comes down to either counting seconds or guesswork, with no real space for anything in-between, which makes it - to my analytical, jaded, experienced-gamer eyes at least - an activity, rather than a game. This game's tracked bidding system between each reveal gives you material to build on and deduce with, even if in practice that deduction proves a bit too easy. I'd turn down a round of The Mind unless there were nothing else available, but I'd like to give this a go.
If the Mind is more of an activity, I still find it more a more fun social activity. It's a bit like a co-operative magic trick and the gateway into the concept of co-operative games and a good litmus test of whether a group actually gets along co-operatively. Its also great way of getting to know and connect to people psychologically. Although there are times when someone just isn't getting it, but so long as people are having fun with the experience, I can keep it going. Usually then someone in the group will get a copy themselves and play with other friends, usually theres just a couple who actually want to play every level but as something to fill the time and being able to socialise its great
I was literally laughing at my screen when you dropped the Allan Dad bit. So perfect, exactly what it feels like teaching a game to certain people... 😂
I have a mob a work who love to play poker, and before halfway through I was thinking, man, this would go down so well with them. And then of course you go into exactly why it goes so well with non-board game player. Brilliant analysis, brilliant work. Well done Matt, you might be skeevy but I can't help but love you mate.
If the gang is like the crew, it's a reverse version of it for me. It's perfect for me too I want trick taking to be a few rounds, not an hour long affair I want poker to be a few rounds, not an evening long affair Also, nice skits matt
I figured out the problem I have with this game - it's essentially 'what if poker was played like Bridge?' You really do need to like both of those games, and want to play something that requires the skills from both, and not want to play either of them instead. Without a love for (merely an appreciation of) Bridge, this game didnt do it for me. Maybe if I liked Bridge bidding, it works; but I can count the number of people I know who play both games at a high enough level to make this work with none of my hands. I like the concept - I just can't find the player who I would suggest to play it with (let alone four more).
i have noticed something funny, it's purely guesswork and emperical evidence but i think you guys have actually become a real influence in the norwegian boardgame market. i see so many bestseller lists in stores weirdly and specifically reflect your lists and the exact recomendations one will get froms earching boardgame recomendations where some of your videos will pop up first. i even see this in what games get localised, like watching the rise of Scout. there are proably other forces at play but i like the idea that you guys are puppetering norway
My only problem with this game as a gateway game is that... a lot of people I know find Poker more confusing than, say, the Mind. If somone at the table doesn't know *anything* about poker (which is surprisingly common), theres a lot to wrap your head around. The Mind, however, can be taught intuitively to anyone in 2 minutes, and demostrated VERY easily. It is, after all, just getting cards numbered 1-100 in order. There's still a barrier to many people which is about reading people's faces, and the chips in The Gang do help there a bit at giving some kind of objective measurement even if it doesn't turn out to be accurate. As someone who personally enjoys the reaction of teaching new people the Mind, its a bit more fun to me than the Gang, but they are certainly companion games so pick your poison, I guess
I've got The Crew and that's a wonderful gateway drug. Not sure The Gang is nearly as good, partly because The Crew ramps up the difficulty and complexity over multiple plays, so the same game can hold a new board gamer's hand for much longer without losing its interest or needing to panic them with "That was fun - now let's play something else" while they're still wary of the whole board gaming idea.
The excitement of finding a clever, fun and simple small box card game you know you'll be able to easily show your non gaming friends and family is a weird but very pleasing sort of buzz.
The Gang is fantastic. I agree with all statements, including jumping to Master Thief mode as soon as you understand the concept. My only complaint is that the cards included are terrible. My group has two copies and both sets are showing terrible wear already. Cards mark and bend too easily. However, you can quite easily swap in a good deck of cards and only lose the face card art that I honestly only noticed in this video.
My family was hesitant when I introduced the game, but really got into it after two rounds. It's been a hard sale to a lot of people in my experience but always enjoyable.
Such an amazing review! Not even that interested in the game. But the writing and acting on the Allan Dad bit was just stellar. You could have a career in the movies!
The Gang as an "anyone can play this game immediatley" feels right to me. Relatedly, I think Cobra Paw does this for me. I can literally spill the components out and begin playing by saying "roll the dice and touch the matching domino. First to 6 wins."
Great review! High art with a seasoned simplicity 👏🏼 That third act surprise recommendation twist! Was also getting some old fashioned Regular Features vibes for some reason! 😆❤
We played this as a warm up to the more meaty game night game. A bunch of us used to play a lot of poker. This was very fun and our favorite part was before revealing cards, we would try to predict exactly what cards each player had.
I'm the kind of boardgame collector that thinks a lot about their players and tries to tailor their set of games to the crowd they play with. So I guess I really gotta get this game someday!
One thing that Matt didn't mention is that teaching it to people who have no idea about the basics of poker can be a bit more of a challenge than other games he's comparing it too.
My immediate thought is if you really want to spice this up even more, use Omaha rules (deal 4, must use 2 in hand and 3 community). Imagine how much hell it might be 6 handed determining whether 2 pair is the worse hand or the best.
One of the challenge cards is play with 3 hole cards instead of two, so Omaha would be the same as playing with 2 challenge cards, which is the hardest difficulty mode. Though the challenge card lets you use 0, 1, 2 or 3 hole cards ala texas with an extra hole card, so maybe omaha is slightly harder?
If I'm not going to play a game over and over with people, I'd rather just play something easy to learn. The Mind works for this, but I get bored with it quickly. I might just use a regular deck of cards to play this, (because my closets are overflowing already), but it seems like a worthy design.
Or... Play a game you already all know, like poker or bridge. Why bridge? Because the communication here is essentially the bridge bidding process - you can only give out limited information, but that information is designed to be read in context of how the game plays. Given we are mashing two somewhat gamblish games together, to fix the issues, I think you have to play The Gang for money against a dealer. Each player and the dealer puts money in the pot ar the beginning of the game. The Gang starts with even split of the pot (including the dealer's money.) Each error a Gangster makes gives a percentage of their take to the othet Gangsters, setermined beforehand. If the Gang win, they take the pot and split according to the final split percentages. If the House wins, the Dealer gets all the pot. Then rotate the Dealer and play until everyone has dealt the same number of times. Is ot as good as poker? Still not sure. Would I play it at least this way? Maaaaaaybe. Would I play for zero stakes - not again.
@@blackjacktrial But Bridge or any other old card game is far more intimidating to get into. The basics of Poker is far more accessible. More people are familiar with it, and if they aren't, The Gang comes with reference cards
If you look at the online community around it your opinion might change. There is a lot of nuance about it once you talk with the people you play with before a game and agree on a set of principles to when and how to give clues. Do you know how Bridge works with it's "conventions"? Hanabi has the same and when you play with them then the possibilities open up a lot and there is a lot of interesting ways you can express information to other players
My guess is that Hanabi is less accessible because of its scoring system. The Gang is win-or-lose, but get 21 points in Hanabi and you go "that's good, right? .. right?"
If I recall correctly, way way back when, maybe 9 or 10 years ago, the then-susd team didn't care for hanabi so much. The reason they gave was that the rules about communication are not clear enough, leading to inadvertent rule bending.
I think Hanabi has just been out for too long, the aesthetics are a bit outdated, the visual design is not clear for many people with less than perfect sight or colourblindness, and these sorts of games tend not to have a ton of replay value once you've played it. That said, I've always found Hanabi more of a challenge to explain and getting people to only communicate in very specific ways is more difficult for many people and also just less *fun* in my experience. Its always extremely obvious who messed up which can be embarrassing for some people.
"getting people into board games" - I think more like certain types of people, mostly dudes: for all the popularity/familiarity of both poker and heist fantasy and gambling and traditional card games, I still think there's a ton of people not interested in any of those, esp. among women. And then there's also me, a dude and I don't even know the poker hands, also hate social deduction and bluffing, don't care about gambling or the concept of heists. But I'm a weird one.
You might be surprised how many women play poker. School mum poker night with wine and betting with wrapped sweets was a highlight when the kids were at school!
Parents and older people are usually familiar with Poker, though. More familiar than any other game, at least. I struggle to think of a more popular game. Its literally the entire basis for the gambling industry.
But yes, I've found that there's usually one or two people, usually younger, who don't know anything about poker and they are usually playing catch-up. So I still prefer The Mind as a gateway game. The Gang is good for getting your parents who don't know any other games, though, and the Mind is often a bit too *weird* for some wanting a traditional game
@@Haldered broadly speaking yes, but I'd still suspect a bit less among women, classic card games in general seem very male-coded to me... at least among the women of my family the more popular card game was bridge, and most of them are just not interested in card games at all. And as kids we used to play Macau a lot with girls, Poker with matches happened less often... Also I'm not American/British, so maybe cultural differences are a factor too. Maybe I'm wrong about the extent of Poker's popularity among women because all my examples are anecdotal, but I'm certain at least there's not an insignificant number of women for whom other tabletop games contain much more enticing themes.
@@thamesandkosmosgamesuk to be clear, I'm not saying there isn't a sizeable group of women who like Poker, just that there's another sizeable group for whom other themes can be much more effective.
me: so just make your own chips and dont buy this game? also me: but the shiny box!!! me: - No ! no shiny box also me: its so shi ...... me: stop you its just a normal deck of cards also me: but the card pictures are different, they are all spy like
Honestly, $14 USD for a really nice deck of cards and some poker chips isn't terrible value. If it was $20+ USD... yeah... However, do I need more stuff on my shelf?
Seriously though, that box is WELL shiny. And there are all the other cards in there to up or lessen the difficulty depending whether you win or lose the round.
Well you also need the chips, you can't use normal poker chips without drawing on them, plus all the extra cards and the variety of rules. It would be a lot of work to make a replica game and you'd probably spend just as much making the extra stuff for something with zero theming, even though the theme is thin, it still makes it more inviting to play
I can't fucking believe that you wasted your entire patreon budget on hiring George Clooney for this episode.
Gorgeous Clooney in fact.
@@MrBfiguero The budget friendly alternative
B&M bargain bin Clooney 😂
And Alan Dad. He can’t be cheap, look at his west.
Your George Clooney impression is maybe the worst George Clooney impression I've ever seen while being the best Waluigi impression I have ever seen.
Thank you for taking intended audience seriously! Designers and publishers spend a ton of time and energy to focus on that…yet it’s often overlooked by reviewers, especially for more casual games
Honestly this is one of the best SUSD episodes in ages (and I've loved plenty of recent ones). The Alan Dad segment calling back to all the heist bits was a work of genius. Probably wouldn't get the game, but I loved watching the review
Totally agree
Spot on Matt. I’m a gamer, but I don’t actually know how to play poker, but being a gamer meant I could pick this up. But the perfect audience is the guys who know how to play poker but don’t play other games. I watched this exact scenario play out at a kids birthday party yesterday, as three ppl who don’t game sat down for this game with three people who do and they all picked it up and loved it. And as you said, as a person who loves games, that was wonderful. It took the three non-gamers that much closer to saying yes to a different type of game in the future 🎉🎉🎉
George Clooney's performance of you doing a bad impression of him is flawless, he truly is a master of his craft
I really did not see the SU&SD Recommends badge coming, but your justification for it makes so much sense. I happen to be a fan of the casual games as much as I am of the more heavyweight options (and inbetween) and that's because your potential audience is so much bigger. I've brought with me casual tabletop games on occasions that I knew there would be downtime and I never had a problem getting some games in especially when they were quick. And the feeling when a newcomer starts to ask for another round is just unbeatable. They may never break into even the next tier of complexity, but at least you brought them the joy of sitting around the table with some friends.
Poker but everyone is trying to be honest about their hand.
I was at a small gaming convention last week, and this game came up again and again. And we had a blast with it. It's more of a pub game than anything else, and with the right group of people, it's tons of fun, especially during the late hours. I'll also add that it gets much harder with six players.
By the way.....I am literally an "Allan" and a dad.
What’s the ideal player count? 4? 5?
@ That depends on whether your goal is to win or to have a blast playing the game, win or lose.
@@Wh0isTh3D0ct0r have a blast
@@mercury187 Then I would definitely recommend six players. Those were our most energetic and enjoyable games, by far. And get some fun, type-A personalities involved too, if you can.
This feels like a mechanism to train people to suck less at poker. "You mean if I pay attention to what people are representing with their actions, I can figure out what they might have and thus play better? Gasp!"
6:25 Is that tiny "six" soundbite in the background from the Gloomhaven review or have I gone completely mad?
Nope it's a FRESH mouth-sound, but it WAS a reference to that, yes! So congratulations for noticing: you are officially as weird as we are
So glad I’m not the only one who noticed that 😂
I thought it was a reference to the Ethnos review, which also had a few instances of "Six!"
The script and editing on this one are TOP. NOTCH. I'm amazed by this homage to the film. And it conveys the content of the review beautifully.
I would slow clap, but instead we will all stand in front of a fountain and look at each other, then slowly walk away.
On initial overview of the game I was totally gonna skip this. But your points about this being a good easy intro game completely sold me. Especially considering how easy it’s been to sell ppl on Balatro by just telling them “oh it’s like poker”
I like the concept, but I can't find the audience for it.... Either you get poker, and you'd rather play poker (sorry, poker just is more interesting than the Gang when everyone knows what they are doing.
If people dont know how poker works, they don't like it because poker hands are confusing.
So you need people who: understand poker, but hate playing it for money, but still kind of like playing it without money.
That's just such a small cross-section of people to target - people who know how to play a game but have a problem with the part of the game most people who like the game like most?
I was wondering when The Crew was going to spawn other the-game-you-know-but-cooperative games.
Can't wait for cooperative Crazy 8's.
Cooperative checkers!
Based on the naming pattern it’ll be called “The Bunch” or “The Team”.
Wait for it, wait for it….. cooperative Chess. You could call it…. The Fight?
I'm looking forward to "The Crew, but Lord Of The Rings" (The Fellowship of the Ring: Trick-Taking Game)
Do you have any fours?
Let's Fish!
I wasn't very sold on this game, I was initially thinking "hmmm, but idk, Poker isn't a very popular game here..." and then I kind of realized that it's actually a brilliant design, because you can just grab a regular deck of cards from your region, a local game that is popular in your region, a bunch of poker chips, and adapt this idea to ANY traditional card game...That's actually pretty brilliant.
The mustache was built for this review
So was the schnoz
Kurt Vonnegut vibes
The whole concept of mustache to be precise
Aaaaaaaaauuuuuwwwwww. Thanks Matt. Now I feel like an appreciated member of the audience. Been with you guys for years.
“Wedge that mother open.” This video is a heist of genius proportions, a wonderful conceit, and reminded me what is so great about your work (besides your impeccable delivery, Matt)… you got me watching a whole video on a game I didn’t care about. You thank your audience, but the thanks has to go to you guys for creating videos so entertaining, even Alan dad will watch them. This is a genuine work of art!
that last third of the video was emotional, somehow..
As I was watching this, before you got to the 'twist', I was thinking the same thing, this both doesn't look like the game for me, but feels like the game I need. The Mind being another game, we've been able to pull at with many people and they all had a more satisfying evening out than the other people thought they were getting, and this feels like more of that.
This review started out as informative, then moved seamlessly into Matt Berry-style comedy and then ended up being incredibly sweet and even emotional towatds the end....SUSD have an amazing way of creating and re-inventing Art whilst simultaneously appearing to just simply review it...Matt Lees I salute you, somehow you have a way of providing genius time and time again. Hats off, very very cool 🎩❤😎
This really *does* seem like an interesting take on poker, cutting the competitive betting and instead learning how to read others' hands!
Also, thank you to whoever edited in the high five sounds in at 5:27, and I appreciated the "painting replacement" heist skit at 8:55. .u.
Excelent script and editing! Thanks for the review!
How'd you get George Clooney to be in this review? 5 Stars
came free in a jar of nescafe
I'm just going to say, I would be totally down if SU&SD started focusing a little more on finding good "gateway games". I'm on the hunt to be a better games ambassador, and part of that is keeping my ear to the ground on the very best accessible games.
I appreciate reviews like this. This last year, I've been able to get our team to play games at lunch every day. Games like Sea Salt and Paper, Love Letter, Scout, Cat In The Box, Flip 7 and now The Gang are all great games that opened the gateway to enjoying games. This week one of my coworkers joined me at Mox Boarding house with my "gaming group" and we played Fromage. He did better than I did.
All this to say, you need these games, some variety, and consistency in playing to help people feel comfortable enough to try the bigger games you like too. So please keep doing reviews for those types of games too.
7:25 As a matchstick person, I've always been a firm believer that if you need to add the adrenaline rush from the risk of losing something real and turn it from a game into gambling in order to make it fun, then that game was not a good game in the first place.
Poker is a bit like Root or any other zero-sum, hyper-interactive, hidden information game: Great to play if everyone is trying to win, annoying to play if not. I would argue poker even takes it to an extreme that if there are players not playing to win at the table it is not even a game anymore. That doesn't make it a bad game though, just one that takes the right group to play.
If people at the table are invested and care about their matchsticks then there will be no issue, but if they are not there is no point in playing. That is where adding some stakes that gets everyone invested comes in. It doesn't even need to be money and it doesn't even need to be a lot if it is. It just needs to make people care about acting in their best interest (no matter how wide that range may be for a given person) because if they don't Poker doesn't have enough meat to hold interest without it like a Root or something else would have.
but poker is not a good game. its boils down to simple percentages. bidding and bluffing is what makes it a good game, and when you bid with matchsticks most of the bluffing goes away/
Sure, but I dont think trying to sell I Can't Believe It's Not Poker or Diet Poker-Pola to people who understand how poker works but don't like playing it... works.
Maybe if you could introduce a gambling component to The Gang, it might work better, paradoxically. Something like a jackpot of money if you win (paid in by everyone), but your split gets worse if you are part of an alarm (eg. If you sequence 1324 on a round, 2 and 3 lose 5% of their cut each to 1 and 4.)
If the Gang win, they divvy the jackpot based on the cut earned at the end. If they don't, the jackpot rolls over, and you might not be on the next heist.
Yes, the best way to fix cooperative poker with no gambling may be to introduce gambling and co-optional (co-operative but with competition within the cooperation) elements. At that point, it all feels like reinventing a wheel to make a better spinny shape.
Speaking as a Dad called Alan, I approve this game and review 😂
It's a stealth Opener
The key difference between this and The Mind seems like this has a logic puzzle that gives you interesting, even slightly crunchy info to work with. The Mind fundamentally comes down to either counting seconds or guesswork, with no real space for anything in-between, which makes it - to my analytical, jaded, experienced-gamer eyes at least - an activity, rather than a game. This game's tracked bidding system between each reveal gives you material to build on and deduce with, even if in practice that deduction proves a bit too easy. I'd turn down a round of The Mind unless there were nothing else available, but I'd like to give this a go.
If the Mind is more of an activity, I still find it more a more fun social activity. It's a bit like a co-operative magic trick and the gateway into the concept of co-operative games and a good litmus test of whether a group actually gets along co-operatively. Its also great way of getting to know and connect to people psychologically. Although there are times when someone just isn't getting it, but so long as people are having fun with the experience, I can keep it going. Usually then someone in the group will get a copy themselves and play with other friends, usually theres just a couple who actually want to play every level but as something to fill the time and being able to socialise its great
Thank YOU Matt, for comedic genius and great reviews! ❤
I was literally laughing at my screen when you dropped the Allan Dad bit. So perfect, exactly what it feels like teaching a game to certain people... 😂
I have a mob a work who love to play poker, and before halfway through I was thinking, man, this would go down so well with them. And then of course you go into exactly why it goes so well with non-board game player. Brilliant analysis, brilliant work. Well done Matt, you might be skeevy but I can't help but love you mate.
If the gang is like the crew, it's a reverse version of it for me. It's perfect for me too
I want trick taking to be a few rounds, not an hour long affair
I want poker to be a few rounds, not an evening long affair
Also, nice skits matt
This is the first game I’ve given a 10/10 in a long while. Our first session we played it for hours and never got tired of it.
I figured out the problem I have with this game - it's essentially 'what if poker was played like Bridge?'
You really do need to like both of those games, and want to play something that requires the skills from both, and not want to play either of them instead.
Without a love for (merely an appreciation of) Bridge, this game didnt do it for me. Maybe if I liked Bridge bidding, it works; but I can count the number of people I know who play both games at a high enough level to make this work with none of my hands.
I like the concept - I just can't find the player who I would suggest to play it with (let alone four more).
I for one am delighted about the return of the high-pitched "SIX" bit
i have noticed something funny, it's purely guesswork and emperical evidence but i think you guys have actually become a real influence in the norwegian boardgame market. i see so many bestseller lists in stores weirdly and specifically reflect your lists and the exact recomendations one will get froms earching boardgame recomendations where some of your videos will pop up first. i even see this in what games get localised, like watching the rise of Scout.
there are proably other forces at play but i like the idea that you guys are puppetering norway
I already bought this, and you've now convinced me to retroactively buy it, which I already did, so thanks?
Haha, me too!
That intro wasn't just Boosh-esque, it was Noel FIelding's Luxuy Comedy-esque. I love Matt so much.
My only problem with this game as a gateway game is that... a lot of people I know find Poker more confusing than, say, the Mind. If somone at the table doesn't know *anything* about poker (which is surprisingly common), theres a lot to wrap your head around.
The Mind, however, can be taught intuitively to anyone in 2 minutes, and demostrated VERY easily. It is, after all, just getting cards numbered 1-100 in order. There's still a barrier to many people which is about reading people's faces, and the chips in The Gang do help there a bit at giving some kind of objective measurement even if it doesn't turn out to be accurate. As someone who personally enjoys the reaction of teaching new people the Mind, its a bit more fun to me than the Gang, but they are certainly companion games so pick your poison, I guess
Alan Dad is a star
I've got The Crew and that's a wonderful gateway drug. Not sure The Gang is nearly as good, partly because The Crew ramps up the difficulty and complexity over multiple plays, so the same game can hold a new board gamer's hand for much longer without losing its interest or needing to panic them with "That was fun - now let's play something else" while they're still wary of the whole board gaming idea.
Mission Allan's dad: accomplished.
2024 appears to be the year of American Movies Matt, and I'm here for it.
Mr. Lees are you aware that Cool Ghosts was quoted by Jacob "The GOAT" Geller in his most recent video?
Nope I'll check it out, thanks!
Dude. Love your special brand of magic you bring to the channel. Brilliant Entertaining reviews and ALWAYS a laugh. 😂
Matt Lees... You son of a birch I'm in!
Great review and a great message. ❤
I havent bought a board game in months - but I pulled the trigger on this. Thanks!
Honestly, SUSD covering the nuances of poker would be a fascinating video.
The excitement of finding a clever, fun and simple small box card game you know you'll be able to easily show your non gaming friends and family is a weird but very pleasing sort of buzz.
Just played it with my kids tonight. They really enjoyed it.
Hidden traitor mechanic now.
The Gang is fantastic. I agree with all statements, including jumping to Master Thief mode as soon as you understand the concept.
My only complaint is that the cards included are terrible. My group has two copies and both sets are showing terrible wear already. Cards mark and bend too easily. However, you can quite easily swap in a good deck of cards and only lose the face card art that I honestly only noticed in this video.
My family was hesitant when I introduced the game, but really got into it after two rounds.
It's been a hard sale to a lot of people in my experience but always enjoyable.
Such an amazing review! Not even that interested in the game. But the writing and acting on the Allan Dad bit was just stellar. You could have a career in the movies!
The real heist is that this is The Opener. I do not know about you... but I feel like getting.... extravagant.
Huh, I never knew what ER stood for, thanks for clearing that up
The Gang as an "anyone can play this game immediatley" feels right to me. Relatedly, I think Cobra Paw does this for me. I can literally spill the components out and begin playing by saying "roll the dice and touch the matching domino. First to 6 wins."
"six!" 😂😂😂😂
Great review! High art with a seasoned simplicity 👏🏼 That third act surprise recommendation twist! Was also getting some old fashioned Regular Features vibes for some reason! 😆❤
Incredibly insightful review. You might have sold me.
17:47 I hope you absolutely right!
Go deeper into the concept of gaming itself!
The energy of a cooperative tackle at sequencing your hands blindly reminds me a lot of Hanabi, which is a good energy for a game to have.
We played this as a warm up to the more meaty game night game. A bunch of us used to play a lot of poker. This was very fun and our favorite part was before revealing cards, we would try to predict exactly what cards each player had.
"This is a flashy presentation of ideas we have seen before. And it does not really flesh those ideas out in a meaningful way."
Absolutely agree.
Thank you for the review mat! this game sounds fun!
I just got into cooperative games. I got sky team and pandemic last week.
Median Uncle Alan was a delight, thank you
trying to get your stubborn uncle or your dad to play a game and actually succeeding AND they enjoy it?? nirvana!
Priceless Mat!!
I'm the kind of boardgame collector that thinks a lot about their players and tries to tailor their set of games to the crowd they play with. So I guess I really gotta get this game someday!
One thing that Matt didn't mention is that teaching it to people who have no idea about the basics of poker can be a bit more of a challenge than other games he's comparing it too.
Thank you Matt!
the facial acting at 13:30 is god tier
You were so right i did not see that coming.
The high-five foley had me cackling.
omg it's a "The Opener" jumpscare!
My immediate thought is if you really want to spice this up even more, use Omaha rules (deal 4, must use 2 in hand and 3 community). Imagine how much hell it might be 6 handed determining whether 2 pair is the worse hand or the best.
One of the challenge cards is play with 3 hole cards instead of two, so Omaha would be the same as playing with 2 challenge cards, which is the hardest difficulty mode. Though the challenge card lets you use 0, 1, 2 or 3 hole cards ala texas with an extra hole card, so maybe omaha is slightly harder?
15:20 is just getting too real😭
I’ve had similar luck with getting my hearts and spades loving relatives to play the crew
Very fair points :)! Great review :D thank you for sharing
God I wish I had an attic
That is absolutely the wildest definition of the fourteen words I've ever heard
Triple damage! You got me
Joke's on you, I play solo, every game I buy is just for me!
If I'm not going to play a game over and over with people, I'd rather just play something easy to learn. The Mind works for this, but I get bored with it quickly. I might just use a regular deck of cards to play this, (because my closets are overflowing already), but it seems like a worthy design.
Yeah, that was my mildlly cynical take - you can easily play this (without the difficulty changes) with a deck of cards and some chips...
Or... Play a game you already all know, like poker or bridge.
Why bridge? Because the communication here is essentially the bridge bidding process - you can only give out limited information, but that information is designed to be read in context of how the game plays.
Given we are mashing two somewhat gamblish games together, to fix the issues, I think you have to play The Gang for money against a dealer.
Each player and the dealer puts money in the pot ar the beginning of the game. The Gang starts with even split of the pot (including the dealer's money.)
Each error a Gangster makes gives a percentage of their take to the othet Gangsters, setermined beforehand.
If the Gang win, they take the pot and split according to the final split percentages.
If the House wins, the Dealer gets all the pot.
Then rotate the Dealer and play until everyone has dealt the same number of times.
Is ot as good as poker? Still not sure. Would I play it at least this way? Maaaaaaybe. Would I play for zero stakes - not again.
@@blackjacktrial But Bridge or any other old card game is far more intimidating to get into. The basics of Poker is far more accessible. More people are familiar with it, and if they aren't, The Gang comes with reference cards
Imagine playing this with the oceans soundtrack in the background
Nice work Lees
Electronic Robuts really went downhill after season 3.
This game definitely isn't for me but this review was brilliant
✨ Literally Poker ✨
That turn around, so skillful
Hmmm what a top tier SU&SD 😅
Absolutely delightful video! I loved the discussion of how to bring people into the hobby, got me thinking about the RPG hobby in the same light.
I am curious if SU&SD thinks similarly about Hanabi, which is basically just cooperative Solitaire.
If you look at the online community around it your opinion might change. There is a lot of nuance about it once you talk with the people you play with before a game and agree on a set of principles to when and how to give clues. Do you know how Bridge works with it's "conventions"? Hanabi has the same and when you play with them then the possibilities open up a lot and there is a lot of interesting ways you can express information to other players
My guess is that Hanabi is less accessible because of its scoring system. The Gang is win-or-lose, but get 21 points in Hanabi and you go "that's good, right? .. right?"
Who cares about scoring Hanabi. Either you win or bust. The rest is just gravy
If I recall correctly, way way back when, maybe 9 or 10 years ago, the then-susd team didn't care for hanabi so much. The reason they gave was that the rules about communication are not clear enough, leading to inadvertent rule bending.
I think Hanabi has just been out for too long, the aesthetics are a bit outdated, the visual design is not clear for many people with less than perfect sight or colourblindness, and these sorts of games tend not to have a ton of replay value once you've played it. That said, I've always found Hanabi more of a challenge to explain and getting people to only communicate in very specific ways is more difficult for many people and also just less *fun* in my experience. Its always extremely obvious who messed up which can be embarrassing for some people.
😆@ Lil' Pitt and Big Clooney!
It’s a great game to start the night off with.
"getting people into board games" - I think more like certain types of people, mostly dudes: for all the popularity/familiarity of both poker and heist fantasy and gambling and traditional card games, I still think there's a ton of people not interested in any of those, esp. among women.
And then there's also me, a dude and I don't even know the poker hands, also hate social deduction and bluffing, don't care about gambling or the concept of heists. But I'm a weird one.
You might be surprised how many women play poker. School mum poker night with wine and betting with wrapped sweets was a highlight when the kids were at school!
Parents and older people are usually familiar with Poker, though. More familiar than any other game, at least. I struggle to think of a more popular game. Its literally the entire basis for the gambling industry.
But yes, I've found that there's usually one or two people, usually younger, who don't know anything about poker and they are usually playing catch-up. So I still prefer The Mind as a gateway game. The Gang is good for getting your parents who don't know any other games, though, and the Mind is often a bit too *weird* for some wanting a traditional game
@@Haldered broadly speaking yes, but I'd still suspect a bit less among women, classic card games in general seem very male-coded to me... at least among the women of my family the more popular card game was bridge, and most of them are just not interested in card games at all. And as kids we used to play Macau a lot with girls, Poker with matches happened less often... Also I'm not American/British, so maybe cultural differences are a factor too.
Maybe I'm wrong about the extent of Poker's popularity among women because all my examples are anecdotal, but I'm certain at least there's not an insignificant number of women for whom other tabletop games contain much more enticing themes.
@@thamesandkosmosgamesuk to be clear, I'm not saying there isn't a sizeable group of women who like Poker, just that there's another sizeable group for whom other themes can be much more effective.
I'm not open to ideas and interested in play. But I am dishonest so I'll take the compliment.
Moustache.
@0:08 Spot on Clooney
Happy to see new content! Keep up the good work!
WAS THAT SUPPOSED TO BE A GEORGE CLOONY IMPRESSION?????
No that was the actor George Clooney
me: so just make your own chips and dont buy this game?
also me: but the shiny box!!!
me: - No ! no shiny box
also me: its so shi ......
me: stop you its just a normal deck of cards
also me: but the card pictures are different, they are all spy like
Honestly, $14 USD for a really nice deck of cards and some poker chips isn't terrible value. If it was $20+ USD... yeah... However, do I need more stuff on my shelf?
Seriously though, that box is WELL shiny. And there are all the other cards in there to up or lessen the difficulty depending whether you win or lose the round.
Well you also need the chips, you can't use normal poker chips without drawing on them, plus all the extra cards and the variety of rules. It would be a lot of work to make a replica game and you'd probably spend just as much making the extra stuff for something with zero theming, even though the theme is thin, it still makes it more inviting to play
Slight issue that I now feel I know the game well enough to play it with a normal pack of cards…