In aluminum maybe, in steel milling/power chuck or hydraulic heavy duty chuck us preferable. The problem with shrink fit holders - they don’t dampening vibration
@@ov3753 also the hotter they get, the more risk of pullout. Hydraulic holder is actually the opposite, the hotter the holder gets the higher the holding force but they flex more.
Great test. I never would have thought with an ER connection that they ran that nice. To me, I would think an integral heat shrink holder would work even better with even less runout. Cool video, thank for sharing Ian
Our shop built one. Just put an induction coil over top of a tightening fixture. It takes less than a minute to heat up. Just don't tuch it for half an hour. We've noticed that they don't last as long as ERs. The heating fatigues the metal.
"The Right Tool for the Job" Perfect for 3d machining. Main purpose of this holder is to extend out smaller diameter tools while still holding good concintricity. Extended end mill holders with set screws run out, and tend to chatter. They're also unbalanced. With a lower maximum rpm. No good for properly machining materials like aluminum, graphite etc. That tend to cut best at, or over 10,000 rpm.
considering we mainly have a bunch of old ER collet holders l really can't see the use of ER-shrink collets. they are actually still quite expensive, compared to a full shrink fit holder from haimer for example (literally the best and very affordable) also you don't have to assemble the holder.
The biggest and best application I’ve found is for the live tooling lathe actually - gives you a lot of reach without chatter! Doing some AMPCO-18 with them right now
"The Right Tool for the Job" Perfect for 3d machining. Main purpose of this tool is to extend out a smaller diameter tools while still holding good concintricity. With a very small holder, for clearance. Extended end mill holders with set screws run out, and tend to chatter. They're also unbalanced. With a lower maximum rpm. No good for property machining materials like aluminum, graphite etc. That tend to cut best at, or over 10,000 rpm.
Awesome Video! Loving the pack full of information. I can definitely seeing this being beneficial in tight spaces. What’s the cost price on one of those?
Im longterm follower of this channel, im edm machinest , but now i would like start new machine shop , can you suggestion , best and cost effictive sinker edm machine ,and wire edm , tell me best machine brand but medium cost
Not sure what I learned here. If you put those same cutters in a solid endmill holder I'm betting they will perform about the same...but I guess we'll never know.
@@iansandusky417 OK but there are only a few narrow cases where shrink fits have a clear advantage. For the remaining 95% of milling jobs, the solid holders hold their own at half the cost.
Why not get a traditional shrinkfit holder thats cat40 on the back end, Thi seems like it can have juat as much runout as a traditonal collet system campared to a traditional shrinkfit holder. Im note sure if i see a benifit to use this style
@@iansandusky417 I would have never thought to throw it in the live tool on the lathe. That can be extremely useful to get closer to the chuck with less stickout
Haha well I mean anything to dampen vibration and introduce some more weight into a light tool prone to deflection ain’t gonna hurt - they don’t make vibe-dampening tooling with carbide shanks for no reason!
Think of it like a race car. Every improvement will better your lap times/drive. Of course a corvette is always gonna beat a 1990 sub fire regardless of the mods. Horses for courses. If it’s not way more $$ it’s almost always better to use better tooling/holders/workhokding. That being said shrink fit is more for clearance on multi axis or mold work. Not many stubby thick shrink holders on the market that I have seen
Dear Lord a tourch WTF! Yes we do get a Haimer system and they will tell you at training do not double heat the holder it wil runi it faster. Haimer only heats the tool to about 450 degrees fahrenheit.Also use real heat shrink holders. Iwas never a fan of the type you used for the demo.
@@iansandusky417 Ian I understand completely you have to start somewhere. If you check in your area with a Haimer or Kennametal rep, they came to our plant with a demo truck for us to check these out and that way I could get the safety person to see and buy into it.
I literally said I was just making that chatter so people could hear it - it wasn’t a one to one test and never claimed to be - the test was for the shrink fit
@@iansandusky417dude! Youre a speaksman of this branch, how not have experience w such tools? How dare you even post about "why your workshop looses orders" or smthing like that? Sooo basic tooling, so basic technology in 21st century. In europe you wouldnt survive for 5mins...
@@iansandusky417 Purchase some, if you haven't already, and find out for yourself unless you work for a company that manufacturers them, in which case, I wouldn't trust your opinion anyway.
Love our heat shrink holders! When it comes to roughing hard and fast, nothing beats them!!
except Albrecht APC
In aluminum maybe, in steel milling/power chuck or hydraulic heavy duty chuck us preferable. The problem with shrink fit holders - they don’t dampening vibration
@@ov3753 also the hotter they get, the more risk of pullout. Hydraulic holder is actually the opposite, the hotter the holder gets the higher the holding force but they flex more.
Great test. I never would have thought with an ER connection that they ran that nice. To me, I would think an integral heat shrink holder would work even better with even less runout. Cool video, thank for sharing Ian
My pleasure sir, thank you very much for checking it out!
Our shop built one. Just put an induction coil over top of a tightening fixture. It takes less than a minute to heat up. Just don't tuch it for half an hour.
We've noticed that they don't last as long as ERs. The heating fatigues the metal.
You are overheating them
good video Ian,,thanks for your time
Very satisfying
"The Right Tool for the Job"
Perfect for 3d machining.
Main purpose of this holder is to extend out smaller diameter tools while still holding good concintricity.
Extended end mill holders with set screws run out, and tend to chatter.
They're also unbalanced.
With a lower maximum rpm.
No good for properly machining materials like aluminum, graphite etc.
That tend to cut best at, or over 10,000 rpm.
I use the same style but ER20 from Iscar on my live tooling lathe and they are great!
Yes indeed! We grabbed a couple for our live tooling lathe as well! Nice for getting in past the 12” chuck
For your live tooling lathe. Try the Multi-Master ER-32 setup. Can do solid carbide, and several styles of indexable mills. Including high feed.
I’ll definitely take a peek at them, thank you for the suggestion!
@@iansandusky417 Sandvik also has a version. I’m sure I’m forgetting others as well.
considering we mainly have a bunch of old ER collet holders l really can't see the use of ER-shrink collets. they are actually still quite expensive, compared to a full shrink fit holder from haimer for example (literally the best and very affordable) also you don't have to assemble the holder.
The biggest and best application I’ve found is for the live tooling lathe actually - gives you a lot of reach without chatter! Doing some AMPCO-18 with them right now
@@iansandusky417 gonna keep that in mind, thanks
"The Right Tool for the Job"
Perfect for 3d machining.
Main purpose of this tool is to extend out a smaller diameter tools while still holding good concintricity.
With a very small holder, for clearance.
Extended end mill holders with set screws run out, and tend to chatter.
They're also unbalanced.
With a lower maximum rpm.
No good for property machining materials like aluminum, graphite etc.
That tend to cut best at, or over 10,000 rpm.
Im going to have to pony up and buy some.
They’re less expensive than you’d think!
Golden chips looks good Ian.
Thank you very much sir!
It looks like an APSFDS round that youre holding.
Awesome Video! Loving the pack full of information. I can definitely seeing this being beneficial in tight spaces. What’s the cost price on one of those?
Thank you very much sir! Honestly way cheaper than you think - I don’t know the American conversion, but about the price of a decent endmill
What's the runout on those?
Not too sure, didn’t actually check! Probably should give it a peek just for kicks
3 microns
You're still in a collet.
Still will get deflection.
True! I was still impressed with how they performed though!
deflection with all holders...
@@wyatt5391okay where you going with this big fella
Nothing is infinitely ridgid... there will always be deflection
@@apache16492lmao the original commenter just needs to feel like he’s smart for a second - humour him
Jung wo ist mein Bier und Pommes 😂
Ich brauche zwei Bier 😂
What is the interference fit on those holders
haimer usees H5
What’s H5?
@@mach5407 www.tribology-abc.com/calculators/iso_shafts.htm
@@mach5407it’s a fit classification, should be able to find a chart of fit classifications in any machinists handbook
Im longterm follower of this channel, im edm machinest , but now i would like start new machine shop , can you suggestion , best and cost effictive sinker edm machine ,and wire edm , tell me best machine brand but medium cost
-Boss, I want heat shrink holder for my workshop.
-We have heat shrink holder at home.
Heat shrink holder at home:
Biggest problem with shrink fit is machine fot heating. It is much better and ceaper to buy few hydrolic that damp buch better and everything...
Not sure what I learned here. If you put those same cutters in a solid endmill holder I'm betting they will perform about the same...but I guess we'll never know.
What kind of solid holder? Side set screw? I haven’t had a lot of success with those in this kind of application.
@@iansandusky417 OK but there are only a few narrow cases where shrink fits have a clear advantage. For the remaining 95% of milling jobs, the solid holders hold their own at half the cost.
Why not get a traditional shrinkfit holder thats cat40 on the back end, Thi seems like it can have juat as much runout as a traditonal collet system campared to a traditional shrinkfit holder.
Im note sure if i see a benifit to use this style
We’re using them a lot in the live tooling lathe at the moment - full heat shrink holders definitely have a place too - we’re going to bring some in
@@iansandusky417 I would have never thought to throw it in the live tool on the lathe. That can be extremely useful to get closer to the chuck with less stickout
Will you get the same benefit of a shrink fit holder in a lightweight machine? *cough*tormach*cough*
Haha well I mean anything to dampen vibration and introduce some more weight into a light tool prone to deflection ain’t gonna hurt - they don’t make vibe-dampening tooling with carbide shanks for no reason!
Think of it like a race car. Every improvement will better your lap times/drive. Of course a corvette is always gonna beat a 1990 sub fire regardless of the mods.
Horses for courses.
If it’s not way more $$ it’s almost always better to use better tooling/holders/workhokding.
That being said shrink fit is more for clearance on multi axis or mold work. Not many stubby thick shrink holders on the market that I have seen
Dear Lord a tourch WTF! Yes we do get a Haimer system and they will tell you at training do not double heat the holder it wil runi it faster. Haimer only heats the tool to about 450 degrees fahrenheit.Also use real heat shrink holders. Iwas never a fan of the type you used for the demo.
Haha yeah, not an optimal setup for this one but I wanted to give it a shot before shelling out the big bucks for a full system!
@@iansandusky417 Ian I understand completely you have to start somewhere. If you check in your area with a Haimer or Kennametal rep, they came to our plant with a demo truck for us to check these out and that way I could get the safety person to see and buy into it.
thats not a good test honestly. your taking a light load cut full width with that long 1/2 em. You need to test apples to apples...
I literally said I was just making that chatter so people could hear it - it wasn’t a one to one test and never claimed to be - the test was for the shrink fit
this dude lives in `99 or what?
I guess man - not everyone has tried everything!
@@iansandusky417dude! Youre a speaksman of this branch, how not have experience w such tools? How dare you even post about "why your workshop looses orders" or smthing like that? Sooo basic tooling, so basic technology in 21st century.
In europe you wouldnt survive for 5mins...
@@grunerzxlmao ok bro, thanks for the support
@@iansandusky417 cut the crap and dont be sarcastic bcos is just not right what you do! Face it!
@@grunerzxlmao you got it dude
REGO-FIX
I'll save you the 11 minutes. No, they aren't worth shit.
Ok man
@@iansandusky417 Purchase some, if you haven't already, and find out for yourself unless you work for a company that manufacturers them, in which case, I wouldn't trust your opinion anyway.