brilliant video! i dont think u should shy away from being open about being controversial. some people need to be called out. veganism is being pushed hard right now (over the last 5-6 years, really) and governments working to outlaw animal agriculture in the very near future. no one who has truly authentically recovered from an ED is vegan or so plant based to the point of being almost vegan. i personally believe veganism is propaganda and people with EDs eat it up bc it's an ethics-based "religion" that allows them to restrict! so grateful i found your channel-i thought i could recover while being mostly plant based but its not been working out so great...thank u for these videos! (side note-i commented a few weeks ago about not being able to hear your podcast and it worked on apple podcasts like 20 min after i commented...i think it was a service/internal issue with my phone)
I'm so happy to hear that you have been incorporating animal products! I agree with all that you said... it becomes an ethics-based religion that people with eating disorders, especially orthorexia, really gravitate towards. I am glad that the podcast ended up working! I have some really good ones coming out as well so stay tuned! I will be releasing every Tuesday!
Thank you SO much. This is an incredibly important conversation! When I was admitted to the hospital for liver and heart problems after two years of being vegan, I started eating oatmeal with milk, fish, meat soup, and the rest of the hospital food. (Damn, how quickly it improved my health scores!) My vegan friends disowned me. I know that in their community they decided that I was just the WRONG vegan. I have been eating animal products for a month now and slowly regaining my lost health, both physical and mental. I feel like I quit the sect.
Sounds like it's time to make new friends. Ones that will support you on your journey towards finding health. It's hard to say good bye to certain people but you gotta do what you gotta do to make sure you are staying safe and healthy.
I love everything you are saying in this. (Well, I love the fact you are talking about it!) For me, it was SO orthorexic. But my brain convinced me that my "compassionate side" was obviously just worried about the animals. But the truth was I was so obsessed with health and "purity". And it didn't stop at just "eliminating animal products". I would over analyse every single ingredient and "health benefit" of every vegetable. The worst part was, that I would get a rush seeing other people eat things like cheese... as I felt like I knew a special secret to life that they didn't. urgh. eating that way did not make me compassionate. It made me cold and distant. Health is how you live your life, not what you put in your mouth.
Thank you for talking about this often overlooked issue! As a person that went vegan and had it worsen my EDs, I wish I had seen a video like this to knock some sense into me. Also, please don't apologize for throughly discussing these topics in your videos - you bring up so many good points, we need to hear you say it all!
Yep I went through the vegan phase. Black bean brownies 🤢 chickpea cookie dough 😭 avocado moose! I seriously didn't pooh for a week! I was so constipated and bloated due to all the fibre. It was awful. To see many "recovery" accounts promoting a vegan diet is scary!!!
I'm trying to really speak up about it because I think its a huge issue. No eating disorder recovery person should be advocating for a restrictive diet.
Thank you SO much. I liked your channel before but I felt kind of guilty watching it because I couldn't recover while remaining vegan. I relate to everything you say.
I am convinced that veganism is a cult. And I don't mean that in a snarky, judgmental and exaggerative manner. I am actually being quite serious. A few months back I was absolutely fascinated listening to different resources about destructive cults, and I learned about something called the BITE Model of Authoritarian Control. B = Behaviour Control, I = Information Control, T = Thought Control, E = Emotional Control. While learning about the BITE Model, it rapidly dawned on me that the vegan community, knowingly or not, follows it almost to a tee. I hope you'll pardon the very long list of points here, but if you do so happen to have the patience to read through it, I think you'll see what I mean. Behaviour Control: - Control types of clothing (no leather, fur, etc.) - Regulate diet - food and drink, hunger and/or fasting (this one is obvious) - Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet - Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative - Discourage individualism, encourage group-think - Impose rigid rules and regulations - Threaten harm to family and friends Information Control: - Deliberately withhold information - Distort information to make it more acceptable - Systematically lie to the cult member (any number of vegan propaganda material is guilty of these, from films like _What The Health_ and _Cowspiracy_ providing cherry picked data, to what I'm sure must be countless books, magazines, and internet articles out there that do the same) - Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership (or in this case, major vegan influencers and/or the community as a whole) - Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda, including: Newsletters, magazines, journals, audiotapes, videotapes, UA-cam, movies and other media - Misquoting statements or using them out of context from non-cult sources (cherry picking scientific/health/ethical information) Thought Control: - Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth - Instill black and white thinking - Decide between good vs. evil - Organize people into us vs. them (vegans vs. non-vegans) - Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words - Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts, including denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking - Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism - Labeling alternative belief systems (or in this case diets) as illegitimate, evil, or not useful Emotional Control: - Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings - some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish (the need to break away from veganism and nourish one's body is seen as 'evil' and 'selfish') - Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault (A.k.a., 'The diet/lifestyle isn't to blame for your malnourishment, you just did it wrong.') - Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as: Identity guilt; you are not living up to your potential; your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish; social guilt - Instill fear, such as fear of: Thinking independently; leaving or being shunned by the group; other’s disapproval - Extremes of emotional highs and lows - love bombing and praise one moment (welcoming new vegan members) and then declaring you are horrible sinner (shunning and/or attacking ex-vegans) - Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group - No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group - Terrible consequences if you leave ('meat and dairy will make you sick,' 'animal products will give you diseases and kill you,' etc.) - Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends and family - Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed - Threats of harm to ex-member and family
Theres always a lot going on psychologically when theres big groups of people gathering under one philosophy wether it be religion or diet... it's all the same
@@flowwithchlo Very true, although I have neither seen nor heard of people being doxxed or threatened with physical violence for ditching (just as an example) Paleo or Keto. Just saying.
I love being vegan. Some people who previously had Ed behaviors tend to go into veganism even though they haven’t healed from it. Don’t blame it on veganism. We only don’t meat for the animals. It’s not a weight loss lifestyle
My channel is explicitly for those who suffer with and eating disorder. I have concerns with ANY diet one with a history of and eating disorder tries to abide by. It's too close to the restrictive nature of the eating disorder and can increase risk of relapse.
@@flowwithchlo okay so what about he meat eaters with Ed? You seem to target one lifestyle more than others. Like i like your content but i feel like you seem to not take into the fact that people who had the Ed mindset before becoming vegan or pescatarian are the ones who have the Ed tendencies. There are many people who are doing fine. What about cultures who eat heavily vegetarian diets and/or pescatarian... you shouldn’t give out ignorant info and blame it on a lifestyle when it’s really a person who hasn’t healed their mindset beforehand. Again veganism is for the animals not weight loss.
Yes, not everyone with an ed follows a diet and many people with anorexia merely focus on reducing calories and are not necessarily worries about the quality or type of food. I talk a lot about Veganism because I was vegan for so many years and like to shed light on how eating vegan diet can be very detrimental to full recovery. I do talk about keto and paleo diets as well more so on my instagram as I too see that diet as inadequate for someone trying to heal from and ed as carbohydrates are so important. I am not saying everyone eating a vegan diet has an ed, I have expressed that many times in my work. My channel is addressing those who are struggling with an eating disorder. I do not find it wise to spend my time talking to a different population when I am educated in the field of eating disorders and only work with those people dealing with anorexia and orthorexia. So as a professional in the field of eating disorders I am advising those who are coming from the most serious mental health disorder (has the highest death rate) to eat a well rounded diet to help them recover from the serious damage they have done from years of restriction. I do not see a vegan diet being nutritionally adequate for someone to fully heal.
brilliant video! i dont think u should shy away from being open about being controversial. some people need to be called out. veganism is being pushed hard right now (over the last 5-6 years, really) and governments working to outlaw animal agriculture in the very near future. no one who has truly authentically recovered from an ED is vegan or so plant based to the point of being almost vegan. i personally believe veganism is propaganda and people with EDs eat it up bc it's an ethics-based "religion" that allows them to restrict! so grateful i found your channel-i thought i could recover while being mostly plant based but its not been working out so great...thank u for these videos! (side note-i commented a few weeks ago about not being able to hear your podcast and it worked on apple podcasts like 20 min after i commented...i think it was a service/internal issue with my phone)
I'm so happy to hear that you have been incorporating animal products! I agree with all that you said... it becomes an ethics-based religion that people with eating disorders, especially orthorexia, really gravitate towards. I am glad that the podcast ended up working! I have some really good ones coming out as well so stay tuned! I will be releasing every Tuesday!
Thank you SO much. This is an incredibly important conversation! When I was admitted to the hospital for liver and heart problems after two years of being vegan, I started eating oatmeal with milk, fish, meat soup, and the rest of the hospital food. (Damn, how quickly it improved my health scores!) My vegan friends disowned me. I know that in their community they decided that I was just the WRONG vegan. I have been eating animal products for a month now and slowly regaining my lost health, both physical and mental. I feel like I quit the sect.
Sounds like it's time to make new friends. Ones that will support you on your journey towards finding health. It's hard to say good bye to certain people but you gotta do what you gotta do to make sure you are staying safe and healthy.
The « purity halo» is such a real thing those days! Great video 👍
I love everything you are saying in this. (Well, I love the fact you are talking about it!) For me, it was SO orthorexic. But my brain convinced me that my "compassionate side" was obviously just worried about the animals. But the truth was I was so obsessed with health and "purity". And it didn't stop at just "eliminating animal products". I would over analyse every single ingredient and "health benefit" of every vegetable. The worst part was, that I would get a rush seeing other people eat things like cheese... as I felt like I knew a special secret to life that they didn't. urgh. eating that way did not make me compassionate. It made me cold and distant. Health is how you live your life, not what you put in your mouth.
Yes yes love the last sentence there :)
Thank you for talking about this often overlooked issue! As a person that went vegan and had it worsen my EDs, I wish I had seen a video like this to knock some sense into me.
Also, please don't apologize for throughly discussing these topics in your videos - you bring up so many good points, we need to hear you say it all!
Thank you Thank you! Yes I will keep on sharing my opinion for those who need to hear it!
Yep I went through the vegan phase. Black bean brownies 🤢 chickpea cookie dough 😭 avocado moose!
I seriously didn't pooh for a week! I was so constipated and bloated due to all the fibre. It was awful.
To see many "recovery" accounts promoting a vegan diet is scary!!!
I'm trying to really speak up about it because I think its a huge issue. No eating disorder recovery person should be advocating for a restrictive diet.
Thank you SO much. I liked your channel before but I felt kind of guilty watching it because I couldn't recover while remaining vegan. I relate to everything you say.
Preach gurllll
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR EVERY SINGLE WORD! I agree for 100%
Great video! Always support you.
Thank you!
Can you please do a response to freelee the banana girl
One thats definitely one to do... so many people getting hurt by her things
I am convinced that veganism is a cult. And I don't mean that in a snarky, judgmental and exaggerative manner. I am actually being quite serious. A few months back I was absolutely fascinated listening to different resources about destructive cults, and I learned about something called the BITE Model of Authoritarian Control. B = Behaviour Control, I = Information Control, T = Thought Control, E = Emotional Control. While learning about the BITE Model, it rapidly dawned on me that the vegan community, knowingly or not, follows it almost to a tee.
I hope you'll pardon the very long list of points here, but if you do so happen to have the patience to read through it, I think you'll see what I mean.
Behaviour Control:
- Control types of clothing (no leather, fur, etc.)
- Regulate diet - food and drink, hunger and/or fasting (this one is obvious)
- Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet
- Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative
- Discourage individualism, encourage group-think
- Impose rigid rules and regulations
- Threaten harm to family and friends
Information Control:
- Deliberately withhold information
- Distort information to make it more acceptable
- Systematically lie to the cult member (any number of vegan propaganda material is guilty of these, from films like _What The Health_ and _Cowspiracy_ providing cherry picked data, to what I'm sure must be countless books, magazines, and internet articles out there that do the same)
- Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership (or in this case, major vegan influencers and/or the community as a whole)
- Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda, including: Newsletters, magazines, journals, audiotapes, videotapes, UA-cam, movies and other media
- Misquoting statements or using them out of context from non-cult sources (cherry picking scientific/health/ethical information)
Thought Control:
- Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth
- Instill black and white thinking
- Decide between good vs. evil
- Organize people into us vs. them (vegans vs. non-vegans)
- Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words
- Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts, including denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
- Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism
- Labeling alternative belief systems (or in this case diets) as illegitimate, evil, or not useful
Emotional Control:
- Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings - some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish (the need to break away from veganism and nourish one's body is seen as 'evil' and 'selfish')
- Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault (A.k.a., 'The diet/lifestyle isn't to blame for your malnourishment, you just did it wrong.')
- Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as: Identity guilt; you are not living up to your potential; your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish; social guilt
- Instill fear, such as fear of: Thinking independently; leaving or being shunned by the group; other’s disapproval
- Extremes of emotional highs and lows - love bombing and praise one moment (welcoming new vegan members) and then declaring you are horrible sinner (shunning and/or attacking ex-vegans)
- Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group
- No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group
- Terrible consequences if you leave ('meat and dairy will make you sick,' 'animal products will give you diseases and kill you,' etc.)
- Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends and family
- Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed
- Threats of harm to ex-member and family
Theres always a lot going on psychologically when theres big groups of people gathering under one philosophy wether it be religion or diet... it's all the same
@@flowwithchlo Very true, although I have neither seen nor heard of people being doxxed or threatened with physical violence for ditching (just as an example) Paleo or Keto. Just saying.
I love being vegan. Some people who previously had Ed behaviors tend to go into veganism even though they haven’t healed from it. Don’t blame it on veganism. We only don’t meat for the animals. It’s not a weight loss lifestyle
My channel is explicitly for those who suffer with and eating disorder. I have concerns with ANY diet one with a history of and eating disorder tries to abide by. It's too close to the restrictive nature of the eating disorder and can increase risk of relapse.
@@flowwithchlo okay so what about he meat eaters with Ed? You seem to target one lifestyle more than others. Like i like your content but i feel like you seem to not take into the fact that people who had the Ed mindset before becoming vegan or pescatarian are the ones who have the Ed tendencies. There are many people who are doing fine. What about cultures who eat heavily vegetarian diets and/or pescatarian... you shouldn’t give out ignorant info and blame it on a lifestyle when it’s really a person who hasn’t healed their mindset beforehand. Again veganism is for the animals not weight loss.
Yes, not everyone with an ed follows a diet and many people with anorexia merely focus on reducing calories and are not necessarily worries about the quality or type of food. I talk a lot about Veganism because I was vegan for so many years and like to shed light on how eating vegan diet can be very detrimental to full recovery. I do talk about keto and paleo diets as well more so on my instagram as I too see that diet as inadequate for someone trying to heal from and ed as carbohydrates are so important. I am not saying everyone eating a vegan diet has an ed, I have expressed that many times in my work. My channel is addressing those who are struggling with an eating disorder. I do not find it wise to spend my time talking to a different population when I am educated in the field of eating disorders and only work with those people dealing with anorexia and orthorexia. So as a professional in the field of eating disorders I am advising those who are coming from the most serious mental health disorder (has the highest death rate) to eat a well rounded diet to help them recover from the serious damage they have done from years of restriction. I do not see a vegan diet being nutritionally adequate for someone to fully heal.
Have you an opinion on bring up children vegan from birth? 🥰
Yes, I do. I would personally never deprive my children of food that has essential nutrients needed for growth and development.