Officer and Enlisted Relationships in the Military | The Truth about Fraternization in the Air Force
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2024
- Officer and Enlisted Relationships in the Military | The Truth about Fraternization in the Air Force
Fraternization... Fraternization, fraternization... What is it? In short, it's an unprofessional relationship between a commissioned or warrant officer and an enlisted member in the military. And... It's a crime in the military. There are TONS of myths floating around about what constitutes fraternization and what doesn't. So in this video, I go over some of the most common myths, and then I give you the actual rules.
TIME STAMPS:
0:00 Introduction
0:39 Myths about Fraternization
1:39 The Law
3:41 Quick Review
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#ashleynoelle #fraternization #officerandenlistedrelationships #fraternizationinthemilitary #militaryrelationships #armybasictraining #airforcebasictraining #airforce #army #navy #marines #spaceforce
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This is dope. The edits are clean. The content is informing. You are killing it. 🙌🏽🙌🏽🤙🏽
Thanks, Jody! I appreciate it! 😎
I am subscribing to you you have been the best in the clearest spoken right to the point no heavy emotional one way or the other thank you so much for the clarification
Very well made and informative video, Ma'am. I will be presenting this to my flight. Subscribed!
If anyone is wondering, i'm in the army and a fun fact is if there is a pre existibg relationship, it's not fraternization. But according to AR 600-20, Chapter 4, you do have a year to get married if one of you makes NCO rank first. Not sure if it is the same for officers, but hope that helps some of you. But for the one year marriage rule to be valid, the relationship had to be before either of you made NCO.
The one year rule applies to new officers as well. For example two enlisted or two NCOs are dating. One goes to OCS and commissions. The couple has one year to get married or end the relationship.
superb.....
You just helped me...
Here i thought i didnt understand the rule or meaning of Fraternization.
I am former enlisted in the Army. I am no longer in the military in any capacity. I married an Army Officer (nursing corps) after I got out years later. I didn’t know her when I was in. We met after I was discharged. Fraternization policy no longer applied anymore since I was out and the relationship started post discharge. I wasn’t even in the IRR.
I am thinking about reenlisting in the reserves. I might go to OCS if I can get an age waiver though. It would be a legal relationship officer/enlisted relationships if I go back in. The only thing it would be advisable for me to show up at military functions with her out of uniform as a civilian if I reenlist like if we attend the Army ball together. I go as a civilian and she goes as an officer or if she attends a family function at my unit she goes as a civilian and I go in uniform.
I agree with most of us said yet I've seen situations where individuals have gotten in trouble for frat and they were on enlisted side. Though at least in the Marine corps if they're in the same chain of command there will be in trouble. If they're in different chains of command then it's like what you said. Yet I always remember what my E7 told me if they are a subordinate to you it's best to leave them alone.
Your camera quality is pristine
Thanks, Jake! 😊
UCMJ only applies to National Guard on federal title 10 orders. Most states have their own military laws that are similar to the UCMJ though. With Guard and Reserves not on orders the fraternization rules get a little blurry. It boils down to does the military have jurisdiction over a reservist or guardsmen when not on orders. The answer in most cases is no.
Still, it is still best for reservist and guardsmen to abide by fraternization rules outside of duty to stay out of trouble especially in terms of romantic relationships.
I used to be enlisted in the Army NG. I worked in my old civilian job on an equal job title level with an O5 in the Army Reserves. We used to go happy hour and drink together with our civilian coworkers on non-military time. When he got married I was an usher at his wedding and been to his home for Super Bowl parties. We were not hanging out on military orders improperly. We also used to go to the casino together and play poker. Enlisted and officers can’t gamble in the military. We knew each other entirely in the civilian world and not from the military. However, if we were on orders and ran into each other frat rules apply.
When I was in college and in the guard, a 1LT who was a grad student in the reserves pledged my fraternity. The military could not stop him from joining my frat. We are still friends today. I did run into him one time in uniform on duty on base and we kept it professional.
In the reserve components, there can be grey area.
Yeah reserves you are only under UCMJ when you are on orders. If an officer knows anyone in their unit outside of the reserves the main thing is that during time on drill or orders that no special preference is shown towards them. She is wrong when she says the "rule" aka the UCMJ applies on and off duty, you are not under UCMJ when you are not under orders.
What if you were dating and both enlisted, then one direct commissions?
Enlisted-enlisted dating relationship for some years. One gains commission and is now in the others chain of command.
Bad or good?
Well, I have one for you. When I was in the military, one of the company commanders in the battalion was a female who was married to an E6 male. Everyone knew it including the battalion commander and I remember him informing her that he was welcome at an officer’s function where we could bring our spouses. I never asked how this could go on, but I assume they were married before they came in the military. So, if two people are married before the military and one enlists while the other goes through an officer commissioning program, I guess that's an exception. Two people could be married as enlisted and, on the battlefield, one could receive a battlefield commission. Then what? There must have been an exception in some rare cases because there was an exception. Now her husband never did come to an officer's function with her. Captain's and E-6's are basically in the military a similar length of time, so I am just assuming they married while they were both civilians. They are also in different commands, different brigades.
It’s possible, as you say, that they could’ve both been civilians when they got married; or one could’ve been a civilian and the other a military member, and then they married; or both were enlisted when they were married, then one decided to commission. The prohibition is against a current officer with a current enlisted member.
Hey me and my boyfriend met as Enlisted Unrated airmens within the Navy we have been dating for 2 years now. But the thing is he has been accepted into the naval academy he hasn’t yet become an officer but if he does are we still prohibited to marry?
So would it be fraternization if there was a couple who has been dating for 1 or 2 years in the civilian world, end up joining say the Air Force, he enlists after college and the girl commissions after graduation? Or is this situation exempt from that rule due to having been already dating in the civilian world?
Hi Kim! Generally speaking, relationships that were established prior to one or both of the partners joining the military don't qualify as frat. So if it's a continued relationship from when the two were both civilians, that should be ok. Just being honest though, if it's just a dating relationship and the two aren't married yet, the optics wouldn't be great and they'd probably have to explain it quite a bit, but it doesn't sound like a situation of frat.
@@ashleynoelle Oh ok I get it, thanks for responding!
You've got a great smile.
Curious, a question: Does fraternization cause one to loose her security clearance status?
What will be the case of an Enlisted who married a female civilian who later became a commission officer? Can the military maintain these couples?
Great videos! How would it work if you are already married mil to mil (enlisted) and one of you has a strong desire to commission? Would this disqualify you? Would it be different if the two of you are on a path to commissioning? Thanks for the videos
Hey Justin! There's no problem if you're already married and one of you commissions. That wouldn't be considered fraternization or UPR because the relationship already existed prior to the commissioning.
@@ashleynoelle Awesome, thank you!! 😊
Now I know the rules, but I still don't understand why it's illegal. What scenarios are the rules intended to prevent?
Basically if you're in the military, don't anyone else in the military.
My wife is a first lieutenant having an inappropriate conversation (Sexting) with a sergeant first class. I turned her in and the papers will be waiting on her commander desk when she gets back. Do anyone think they know what might happen? And yes I know (depends on the commanders discretion)
what happened?
What if the officer is stationed at a different base and in a completely different chain of command? Still frat?
Still frat.
My wife is an officer and she did date a civilian. It was a guy she dated when she was 16 and he was 24. Some years later, they reconnected and she’s moved him out of his moms house and in with her.
That’s fucking wild…
Saying all that, I agree with the rules to protect enlisted against officer members, No commissioned officer should be taken advantage of an an enlisted member, nor vice versa. In my branch that rule is viable, yet is damn near a sense of discriminatory segregation. Space Force, as the newest branch of the military, are all particularized into our own sperate yet equal forms of leadership. It's a weird status quo, and the rules should be followed as such. However, no other branch of the military functions like ours do. You have big picture officers who will try as they might cling to tradition, yet you have the same people under you who have just as much education if not more fulfilling the mission. A 24 year old officer working tandem to a 24 year old NCO who knows everything 'cept the good old boys club is going to cause some mighty interesting circumstances no doubt. We are not in the era of "Officers are more educated" any more. I'm not vying for one way or another. I am simply saying the playing ground has been further and further leveled until we no longer realize the capability nor agility of our own commanding officers. All this to say as an enlisted man: some of the officers are mighty cute.
What if we dated years prior to military and she's a dentist and I'm a pilot? Different chains of command
Aren’t you both officers then?
What is I become a warrant officer willing to get married to an officer? Can you please answer my question lol.
Hey Bryan! From just a cut-and-dry reading of the UCMJ, warrant officers seem to be put into the same category as commissioned officers, so it wouldn't seem like that would be considered frat. BUT, I'll be honest, since Air Force doesn't have warrant officers, I don't know the ins and outs of rules pertaining to them. So since I take it your Army, I recommend reaching out to your installation's military defense attorneys for an answer on that.
Oorah frat
Can you marry before a person goes to OTC?
Yes, if one partner is enlisted and the other is not yet an officer, they can marry before the latter goes to OTC.
You mean to tell me that if I join the Air Force as enlisted. I can't date an officer?
Lol no, Joseph, you can't. Sorry, my man...
@@ashleynoelle What if we started dating way before I join
If there's a pre-existing relationship, that's ok. It wouldn't be frat because the relationship began before one of you was either an officer or enlisted.
@@ashleynoelle that's wonderful. Too bad I don't know anyone lol
The postal service is terrible supervisors get away with fraternization it’s bad for any workplace just as bad as racism
I’m enlisted and I married an officer. Worst decision I made and I want to KMS….
I got a question: "Are you single?❤
Does this apply to friendships as well?
Hey Will! This is going to depend on a lot of factors, and it isn't necessarily going to be treated quite the same as an established romantic relationship. I'd say for friendships, you can be cool, but there's going to come a line at some point, especially if the officer and enlisted member are in the same unit or the officer is in the enlisted member's chain of command.
@@ashleynoelle thanks! I always wondered about this. So like any other job; you can be cool, maybe even hang out with your supervisor from time to time as long as that doesn’t start affecting work and giving the impression of preferential treatment.
Daughter is enlisted and her fiancé has a degree and will be going in as an officer. They will be married before he joins, is this fraternization?
Hi Gretchen! No, that's fine. Fraternization doesn't extend to pre-existing relationships.