Big shoutout to everyone who's gotten my books, you help keep the channel going! Book 1: SWEAT (beginners/intermediates) www.verityfit.com/product-page/sweat Book 2: Ring Training For Hypertrophy (ring enthusiasts) www.verityfit.com/product-page/ring-training-for-hypertrophy Book 3: Resurrecting Your Gains (intermediates/advanced lifters) www.verityfit.com/product-page/resurrecting-your-gains-finding-your-muscle-growth-formula
@@proathlete8153Nah, I’ve bought every one of Geoff’s books plus he coached me for 6 months. Very worth it and saw tremendous results. It ain’t a grift when someone sells the genuine article.
I like Steve Shaw's take on powerbuilding. It's a passion for strength and getting every muscle in your body as big and strong as you can. It doesn't have to be about getting the highest total, but you can still train the big three for strength while putting on a lot of size. Like you said, most people aren't competing, so even if you don't maximize your 1RM strength, you're still going to put up good numbers on all your lifts and look great if you train hard and intelligently. Which is what most people want at the end of the day.
@@himeshsinghshishodiya Nice. I like doing the big three. Even if there are better options for hypertrophy, you can still get a ton of value out of them. And it's fun to get stronger and beat your previous performance, so that's why I like training for strength and size.
I think Steve coined the phrase or at least popularized it when he used to write a lot of content for various websites and mags, so I side with his definition. Powerbuilding is a philosophy, not a method of training.
@@AthleticBodySystemsNC Ikr. It's just a different kind of passion we all relate to. Everyone is allowed to have different goals and passions as long as they aren't hurting anyone but unfortunately people don't understand.
@@Ventryx Yeah, the initial NH video just screams fictitious bickering so all these influencers make response videos, everyone gets clicks and is happy.
@@NoMercy.62 no because I don't bb bench press ( I only do dumbell for hypertrophy also because I don't like barbell bench) I squat and bench once a week each. The rest is all bodybuilding.
Thank you for such a reasonable response. Steve Shaw put it simply, he cares about both size and strength, that’s it. This whole thing felt like a made up debate for clicks to anyone who took a second to think about it… oh wait this is the internet and we don’t do that here.
A little off-topic here but I’ve to say that you’re looking absolutely jacked. Your arms at 1:44 are looking especially gigantic. Chest, back and legs are also looking extremely huge. You’re a huge inspiration for all the natural lifters and you simply show what hard work, dedication and consistency can achieve. You’re a perfect example of that. Keep being incredibly phenomenal and big props to you for inspiring us all. Your physique is a masterpiece as it’s very great amount of muscle and quite healthy and sustainable body fat percentage that gives you a lean look without taking away from the size that is it still allows you to carry lots of muscle. It’s identical to legendary silver era bodybuilders where they’re lean but not too lean and also have plenty of muscle. It’s definitely my favourite look. Outstanding work! I’m truly grateful to you for all the helpful information, knowledge and valuable experience that you share with us. It’s quite amazing and really needed. Appreciate it so much. Thank you! 🙏💪👍👑
He’s literally one of the biggest naturals I’ve seen. Crazy mass and strength. Him and Alex are some of the biggest dudes, and Jeff Nippard. Honestly think he could play Batman with the size and height he is.
10:38 "if you like power-building, and that is gonna keep you consistent, that is more important than pretty much anything else in the conversation" - GVS.
Plenty of people want to get bigger and stronger. So what if they don’t get “maximally” big or “maximally” strong? You can still get really big and strong! Nothing wrong with seeking a balance between those traits, the same way you seek balance between lifting and other life responsibilities
I started lifting at 37, and for the past 5 years I have been powerbuilding. I love the SBDOhp, and use a 531with accessories after each compound for the day. I don't plan on competing in powerlifting or bodybuilding, I am just trying to get as strong as I can, and enjoy my training to keep doing it as long as I live. I have gotten to a 1305 total and that keeps me engaged to keep getting stronger. Lift for you and your goals and don't worry about what label people put on it. Happy lifting everyone!
This is so dependent on definition. I think the harmful one, which NH is talking about is: 1 rm bench - then some triples - then "hypertrophy work" with same exercise and then halfass some pushdowns and lat rows... Which imo is very rare and most of the so called powerbuilders are just bodybuilders who focus little bit more on their strenght. So if people dont define what are they talking about, there will be another 10 response videos on this already beaten to death topic.
As an ex competitive (drug free) power lifter we didn't just do the big 3 for example if you want a good bench you want a big strong back and triceps...
Explain that to NH. He literally thinks everyone who does PL or powerbuilding is jason blaha clone. Most powerlifters I know are a 3 month cut away from being more jacked than 99% of bodybuilders.
@@naughtiousmaximus7853 Is that even true though? I don't follow PL much, but I do watch the IPF worlds streams occasionally, and I can say with confidence most of the lifters look like shit, but they are strong as fuck. I've 100% seen really great looking powerlifters, but the reality is most of the guys competing in worlds don't look impressive considering the numbers they lift.
@@jaku8513 Yea, the guy's coping hard. One of the most prominent powerlifters from my country constantly gets joked about in fitness circles as being like a twig and he's definitely not in the minority of powerlifters. Hell, look at people like Taylor Atwood and Samantha Eugenie if you don't believe me. Focusing on SBD leaves the shoulders, arms (except maybe triceps), upper-mid back and sometimes even quads underdeveloped. How are you gonna look jacked with half of your body underdeveloped? Yes btw, I understand that just like Olympic weightlifters, powerlifters wouldn't want to develop muscles that aren't going to have an effect on SBD because they are also trying to stay in their weightclass. Unless the person is on steroids, obviously.
I'm actually impressed and thankful Geoffrey recognized how many people here are doing less than a plate on bench (no diss whatsoever ofc). We're so flooded with insane feats on social media, we really do lose track of reality. It's easily a single-digit percent of the people who WOULDN'T benefit from "powerbuilding" (and even that's up for debate as I've seen veterans with world-class strength use it)
I think the initial issue is for people to be honest with themselves why they are starting weight training. In my experience when I was a kid their were two camps for dudes. Impress girls: Bodybuilder approach. Impress other guys: Power-builder approach. Both have tremendous value when first starting and as you stated specialization comes with experience.
"I think the initial issue is for people to be honest with themselves why they are starting weight training." This has been what people like Natural Hypertrophy and Basement Bodybuilding have been getting at for a while. But I don't just think the problem is with people being honest with themselves, it is with the information and nudging they get.
@@orkunakman1541 absolutely, it’s just harder for older channels to keep the focus on these topics. Since Covid the influx of fitness influencers and tiktok has flooded social media with so much trash it’s hard for newer generations to sift through all the content. It would behoove older channels to put more content on those newer platforms to further their own brand and give more no-BS content.
Bodybuilding pretty quickly becomes about impressing other guys too though. A bit of size is good, but anything much more than that and it starts becoming a turn off for girls, whether it’s because your ‘size’ is 30% body fat or because you’re lean but you’re PED big - all it ends up doing is impressing dudes.
i’m going for my first powerlifting competition in february, and before i hopped on alex bromley’s bullmastiff program (i’m on week 5 rn, loving it) i was running a self-made powerbuilding style program. the biggest difference i’ve noticed between powerbuilding and powerlifting is primarily muscle emphasis. i used to prioritize shoulders, bicep, and back in my program a lot for aesthetic purposes, and they didn’t interfere much with me slowly building up my sbd total. in this new phase of training, i’ve noticed alex programs like half the volume on all those vanity but not so much sbd relevant muscle groups that i’m used to, and spams the hell out of powerlifting-relevant groups like hamstrings. i miss my lateral raises and i’m worried my back is gonna disappear without pull ups (i do them on the side sometimes lmao) but in the “base” phase of powerlifting training before the “peak” phase a lot of the stuff feels pretty damn powerbuildy. lots of high volume work, accessories in the 8-12 range…
I’m running Bullmastiff rn too, and I actually had to add some quad accessories on the first week of each block, b/c the intensity is so low. Besides that tho, I’ve enjoyed the program too, and may just repeat the base phase, since I’m not too focused on 1RM strength.
@@legrandfromage9682haha very true. i’m just new enough to powerlifting that i didn’t wanna tweak the programming too much in case i fuck up something important on accident (i think i’m gonna add lateral raises back in lmao)
you will have decent carry-over from pullups to DL. maybe not in 1RM strength short-term, but being a bit tighter in your lats when you pull out the slack may get you a rep here and there, make you more efficient on the lift and save some recovery points, etc. same with shoulders and bench, having strong OHP is quite nice on bench actually, you are so strong off the chest from a dead stop if your OHP is nuts. I fucked off bb benching for a bit and did bb ohp instead and when I got back, my reps were so much more explosive. obviously, I would have made better progress on bench, have I kept benching (lol), but keeping yourself sane by doing something else is not entirely detrimental either. especially on low-fatigue cost exercises, where you can just do them for "free", like you're not gonna fuck over your next DL day if you do 3 sets of pullups the day before or even after the DL day honestly.
You're pretty justified in feeling that it is a bit 'powerbuildy' because, well, it is. It's a common misconception that powerbuilding is its own thing, when it honestly really isn't. Powerbuilding essentially is what powerlifting is for ~90% of the year. It's really only within a few weeks to competition that powerlifting becomes what most people think of powerlifting being. (Few lifts, few reps/sets, high weight). The vast majority of time spent as a powerlifter is lots of volume, high rep accessories etc. Very akin to bodybuilding, really.
In a previous video NH described the difference between Body Building and Powerlifting as being akin to the 100-meter dash and Marathon running. I just don't think the two are that many miles apart.
In a way, they are. Compare a low bar back squat, which is literally not even a primarily quad exercise anymore, to a front or hack squat. Compare how Dr. Mike does leg day to any powerlifter.
What the heck does that even mean? I did not say they were the same thing. I am suggesting that the difference is more like that between the 100-meter and 400-meter events rather than the 100-meter and marathon.
He has to exaggerate the difference while ignoring diminishing returns of size, he knows if he doesn’t say this most people will realize being a Jack of all trades is better than being a one trick pony which a minor advantage.
This topic is more for gym rats. When you coach enough people , you realize the best method is a lifestyle approach with weight training and mobility. All forms can be utilized to teach the general public. The last part was the most important part : ‘be careful of anyone saying that they have the perfect program’.
What I love about your videos is the comedy. Seriously, the quips and jokes you put in, add so much character to the videos. Also, great and thought-provoking video. The problem I see with powerlifting is that it is in a similar situation as Olympic weightlifting. It is a specific competitive sport with lifts that don't necessarily transform to hypertrophy; but because of UA-cam fitness history, it somehow became coupled with bodybuilding. We all know about the ultra-wide sumo deadlifts, the ultra-low bar French style squats and ultra-arched bench press (I call it the ultrifecta), but even the milder processes of optimizing the lift technique to be able to lift more seem to be counter to the idea of bodybuilding. Two examples that come to my mind. -I constantly see comments like how squatting below parallel is unnecessary because it counts if you get to parallel (despite the fact that a lot of people aren't going to powerlifting meets ever in their life...). -There was a Squat University video about how benching with a grip width that is twice the length between your outer clavicular edges is the most stable and will get you to lift the most weight. Why am I trying to optimize the power output instead of stimulus? What is also weird is this equivicating of "Powerlifting" and the concept of strength (and in some places like Reddit, the concept of fitness). Why are we trying to say 1RM in 3 lifts is the epitome of strength, just because these are the 3 lifts that are measured in powerlifting competitions. Anybody who tried to do the same thing with lifts like snatch and C&J would be laughed at or at least would be looked at with confusing stares, but somehow the 1 RM of 3 lifts that don't even encompass the entire body is okay.
YES. People just want to put powerlifting on a pedestal. Meanwhile, the only strength sports in the Olympics is Oly. But you don’t see people fighting about doing snatch. Oh yeah, cuz you can’t cheat ground to overhead to get bigger numbers and stroke your ego.
It's a bit sad to see, really. It seems that online fitness tends to bias towards this type of thinking. Being the best or as good as possible on the big 3 (even if that means cutting ROM or taking other types of shortcuts) seems to be the standard. Why I'm not sure, but I assume it has something to do with the big 3 being very easy to learn, especially compared to Olympic lifting. It's also very accessible for most people, since not everyone has the time or the money to invest into an Oly coach. Strongman isn't very accessible either due to all the equipment used and space needed. The 3 barbell lifts are simply just easily accessible, have a low barrier of entry and are a decent enough standard for most people to follow. And influencers focus on it too, because they're incentivized by the potential for larger audiences. The rest is just everyone trying to pretend that they're on the right side and do whatever to justify that what they're doing is the best because XYZ.
@@vizari9570 yeah the more you learn about lifting the more NH sounds like he's pulling stuff out of his ass and trying to use his appearance and way of talking as an authority. Dude really does not know nearly as much as he says he does, also much less than the other YT fitness channels. He never coached anybody, does not "care" about science - so all his knowledge is basically from experience. He doesn't even really learn from other's anectodes, most often just dismisses them.
i dont really care about deadlifting, but i love squatting and bench pressing. the cool thing is that paused, knees over toes squats are really good for hypertrophy, and machine work is really good for squats. and medium grip, no leg drive, paused bench presses are really good for hypertrophy, and machines are also helpful. aka life is good
It depends on how you are built. For me I love to deadlift, the bench press is meh to me, and I really don't like to squat since I'm not built to squat at all but I am built to deadlift heavy weights. I don't squat very often since it doesn't feel good for me to do that movement pattern and the heavier the weight the worse the pattern feels but you would likely say the same about deadlifting.
@@fastedwarrior7353 nah, im kinda good at deadlifting and my bench sucks, ive got pretty long arms. My squat is mid too because of my long femurs. I think the only reason I like those lifts is because theyre hard, i like the chase. Deadlifts always felt more like a way to show off rather than an actual muscle builder
Why does it feel like when NH and GVS have a friendly argument it feels like the reverse manner in how Tyler Durden speaks and fights with his Brad Pitt alter ego
Bodybuilding without some strength focus is death. I like Bromley's suggestion of doing bodybuilding for a large period of time, dropping exercises and moving into something like Starting Strength for a shorter period of time and for a real minimal period of time peak out with power then take a break and start it all over again but with weights based on whatever you peaked at in the power phase. What I like is I'm always working towards something and right about when I'm burning out - it's time to switch. Good video and good advice.
No one even watched the NH video. It was a perfectly fine and reasonable take. There was no hate or disrespect even if he's wrong. So much salt in the comments.
Geoffrey: "Be wary of anyone who promises the perfect training system." Still Geoffrey: "Alright, check out my books, they are the perfect training system" A beat Again Geoffrey: "Nailed it"
I don't think that Powerbuilding is that big of a problem, and maybe didn't constitute a video from NH. However, I think he really just wanted to express that it is ok to train for size only. He definitely wants to take back the label of bodybuilder and let lifters know that they don't have to care about their SBD.
Great take man. I looked at everyone's video on this. Even every opposing argument even to what I believe I see their point. All of you made great points. At the end of the day majority of people get to the gym to have above average strength and moreso look good. Small percentage aspire to be elite powerlifters or mass monsters which both are a lot harder to achieve especially naturally and especially being a combination of both
I have been doing weight training for most of my life since I was 16. Never with the specific goal of building maximal muscle _or_ maximal strenght, because my primary phisical activity has always been martial arts, sports and fighting. So I naturally drifted towards powerbuilding even though I heard that term today for the first time in my life. Powerbuilding is, always was and always will be the best method for me.
I have no problem with NHs video, he layed out both bad and good ways to do "power building", with the good way to do it falling in line with his definition of bodybuilding. The bad way of going about powerbuilding mostly comes down to sprinkling in bodybuilding training with the expectation that it will have a huge effect when it probably wont. I don't think NH would have any problem with someone powerbuilding in that way if they understood that their bodybuilding results would probably suck. It seems NH just wants everyone to understand the pros and cons of different elements of training, and yeah, he's a sensational and passionate guy, but thats why I watch him and that's what will get his message to the largest audience possible.
For putting on weight, improving balance, bone density, and general health, powerlifting makes a lot of sense for beginners since programming is simple and goals are easily measurable (how much can you lift on X). This allows people to persist long enogh to develop an interest in lifting and a habit of doing that regularly. I spent a few years in Planet Fitness hell messing around with a bunch of issolation exercises and making relatively unmeasurable progress before I settled down to focus on four lifts. This releived me of a lot of distraction and anxiety about doing things "right".
i just think there is no need for more strength at one point. If you have a solid strength base you're better off going for pure hypertrophy in my opinion. You'll still increase your strength in the 8-30 rep range, but you'll get more jacked.
I picture these 2 things as sliders when you fully focus on one it is impossible to maximize the other. You will NOT maximize hypertrophy if you are maximizing strength on the big 3 and vice versa. Power building to me is the in-between where you take on two tasks at a time and therefore will arrive at your goals significantly later. NH loves to take the most abrasive takes and run with them. Even NH himself has recognized that he is pretty dogmatic so this is par for the course.
I love what NH brought to the bodybuilding youtube scene in so many ways, but yes he can have a lack of self awareness at times. For example he thinks he uses a low-protein diet but then when he posts his actual diet he's eating chicken, turkey, whey, 4 croissants, sardines etc. all on the same day 😂
I think most of us purely bodybuilding training guys are powerlifting refugees who found out we care more abour aesthetics than numbers. The issue is when a person lies to themselves about what they really want and becomes super dogmatic about "their" way of training being best for everyone, even if they have different goals. Which of course is ridiculous.
@@NoMercy.62his CNS fatigue videos. If you see how he trains in his vlogs he isnt going nearly hard enough so obviously he thinks fatigue isn't a big deal
I did powerbuilding for a year. I neither got power, nor did I gain much size. I did mediocre. I finally am treating strength and size as two different things and i am seeing better results.
I agree as some1 who has been training for last 13 years i need to specialize to milk every ounce of gains that there is left. I personally dont even do compounds anymore except for bench which i do in smith machine. Loads i have to deal with to get stronger simple leave no gas in the tank for growth part once i have done my deadlifts my forearms ,hands are done i simply cant grip hard enough to also next do hypertrophy work. And training 6 times a week on top of that ? Nah something has to go out. That being said there is nothing wrong with PB when you are green newb who doesnt know wtf he wants from gym
You probably did it wrong, strength and size are not different things. Strength optimized in such a way that you're finagling range of motion for competition purposes is a different thing.
Forget powerbuilding, I would call into question the definition of strength itself. What does being strong mean? For example does lifting more weight by optimizing leverages, reducing rom, or any other way of gaining advantage mean you got stronger? My opinion is no, you simply made the lift easier. Neither should the idea of strength automatically refer to performance on 3 specific lifts but this should be obvious.
What are your opinions now that NH decided you weren’t a cool kid anymore gefforey,I watched the video and it was the best unintentional comedy I have seen,it is like NH thinks he is infallible.
I guess it depends on your definition of powerbuilding. For me it's using bodybuilding exercises in an explosive manner with low rep ranges with the intention of gaining both strength and size. For me it doesn't mean using benchpress, squats or deadlift at all. But for other people I guess that's what it means.
This ("powerbuilding") is what I've always done naturally, it just didn't have a name for it yet. My dad taught me a method he used in the 1970s/80s which he then imparted to me when I was a kid and first started training. It's very simple and it goes like this: On any lift (doesn't matter what it is, bench press, squat, bicep curls, anything) you use a "workout weight" that is heavy enough that it enables you to get around 7-8 reps on your first set, but the #1 LAW of it is that you have to go to complete failure. Some people seem to have different definitions of what failure means, I've seen dudes put a weight up for 10 reps where the 10th rep is no slower than the 1st and then they rack the weight. That's not failure. What I mean when I say "failure" is all-out exertion to the last ounce of energy. By the final rep you should be red-faced, teeth-gritting, grunting, gasping for air type shit, and you should be so fatigued that you require at least 4 minutes (or even 5) recovery period between sets. That's what true failure means as far as I'm concerned. So back to the method... you use a "working weight" (after your warmups obv) that puts you in the 7-8 rep range going to total failure. You do 3 sets using that weight (with 4-5 minute breaks in between sets) and then add up your total. So for example, let's say your first set was 8 reps, second set was 6 reps (because you're getting more fatigued after every set obv), and third set was 4 reps. Your 3-set total would be 18. That tells you you're using the perfect "workout weight". As your body adapts to that weight and grows, it will get easier and easier. Eventually you will get to the point where you can get that weight up for "10, 8, 6", and/or a 3-set total equaling 24 or greater. The day you get it up for 10 reps on your first set OR a 3-set total of 24 (whichever comes first) you have now "graduated" that weight, and can bump the weight up 10 lbs on your next workout, and that becomes your new workout weight. Rinse and repeat the process. Oh and for clarity, I'm not saying to ONLY do 3 sets...you can and should do 3 or 4 more sets at reduced weight following your "working sets". I'm just saying the first 3 sets of your working weight are the only ones that count towards your 3-set total, any subsequent sets are just to burn yourself out and shock the muscles. This method carried my dad to an elite level bench press in the late 70s/early 80s before I was born. All natural, no roids. He has a whole wall of 1st place trophies from powerlifting competitions...his squat and deadlift were good too but his bench was his strongest lift, he was in the 148 lb weight class and was regularly hitting 335-345 in competition, and one time he supposedly hit 360 but this was not official as it wasn't during a powerlifting competition, it was just an unofficial beach contest type of thing. The point is, "powerbuilding" (as it's now been termed) is VERY viable for building both serious muscle size as well as serious muscle strength. Could my dad have lifted even greater weight if he had trained solely like a powerlifter (using the 1-5 rep range instead of 6-10)? Absolutely, and he was aware of that. But the "10, 8, 6" method (that's what we call it) was more than good enough for him to still clinch 1st place at almost every event he ever entered. It's the best of both worlds, using the "10, 8, 6" or "powerbuilding" method, you gain most of the strength of a powerlifter AND most of the hypertrophy of a bodybuilder. If you want to dedicate entirely to one of the two schools of lifting then it's probably best to go balls deep into JUST powerlifting or JUST bodybuilding. But for the rest of us who don't compete and just want to be very strong AND have big good-looking muscles, then powerbuilding is the way to go imo. I'm 35 now, I lifted during my late teens and early 20s but then stopped at age 22 and didn't lift a weight again for over a decade. Last year I decided to get back into it because I was way too skinny (6ft tall and only weighed 153 lbs) and I was only benching 135 for reps. A little over one year later I am now 175 lbs and I'm benching 235 for 8 reps and my 1rm is getting close to 315 (not quite there yet but it's coming within probably a couple more months). Not that that's anything crazy special, I'm still nowhere near my dad's numbers. But that is extremely fast gains for a 14-month time period, it's literally faster than anyone else I've ever seen, except for those who are on roids obviously. And it's not just "noob gains" or muscle memory. I'm well past the noob gain and muscle memory phase, and still making relatively quick gains. Literally put on 22 lbs in one year and it was virtually all muscle mass as my bmi hasn't changed at all (I'm only 15% bmi, I don't believe in "dirty bulking" at all, I like to stay lean). It's to the point now where dudes at the gym are getting impressed and I'm unintentionally garnering attention and respect. Every single time I'm in the gym doing bench press or tricep pushdowns or cable rows, I'll have a nearby dude walk up to compliment me and say something like "dude you're getting huge, I seen you get big faster than anyone here, are you on any gear?" When I tell them I'm 100% natural, the next thing they ask is "then what the hell are you doing to progress this fast?" And that's when I tell them about the "10, 8, 6"/powerbuilding method if they're willing to hear it. Some end up implementing it themselves, but most of them just continue doing their 5x5s or pyramid lifts or whatever method they were already using, and they stay somewhat stagnant in their gains. The ones who listen and implement it get huge fast. I told my one buddy about this method a couple years ago and he implemented it and got gigantic in just 2 years, he blew up to 215 lbs and is currently benching 305 for 8-9 reps and is squatting 365 for reps and deadlifting 435 for reps. Dude's an absolute unit and he regularly gets asked if he's on gear and when he says no, most people think he's lying lmao. Anyone who tries this and takes it seriously (going to total failure, not leaving anything on the table) will get huge quicker than just about any other method I've heard as of yet. I'm confident as fuck in that statement. If anyone who's reading this has been looking for a change in their regimen and wants to try something new, try the workout style I just outlined (and of course still make sure you're getting in your daily protein requirements), and you will build mass and strength like you never have before. The nice thing is it's super simple to remember: "if I hit this weight for 10 reps, then I get to move up 10 lbs on the next workout day" and that's it. Your only competition is your own self, always trying to exceed the rep count of your previous workout. It's simple, it's fun, and it leads to...fast gainz. Who the hell wants to wait 5 years for gainz like 90% of gym goers do? There's no need for that, you can have it in a year or two. Just use the 10-8-6 method and go to absolute failure every set. Hope this has been an interesting/useful read to whoever may have wanted to hear it, it took me a little while to type up lol.
Training strength for a variety of lifts also leads to more hypertrophy vs just training strength for SBD. I train weighted chin ups, dips, OHP, and strict curl also for strength.
This also depends on what workout routine you do. With full body workouts you always do the heavy compounds first. You also workout the largest muscle group first. 3-4 sets each. 8-12 reps. So. Back. compound lift Chest compound Legs compound Leg isolation exercise. Shoulders compound Chest. cable flies, pec deck Arms. Whatever exercises you like. You have already done heavy arm work with the back and chest compounds. So now u do isolation work. And if you want to hit these. At the end do. Calves Forearms
I don't watch Natural Hypertrophy but the few times I've come across his takes he comes off as kind of holier-than-thou. Is he usually like this or have I only heard about his worst takes?
Yeah I noticed that as well,he thinks he is infallible. He also grooms his novice small and weak fanbase into being “ ideologically pure “ like a cultists lmao
Okay ill just not talk about anything related to the subject at hand, I just have to mention that your neck and upper traps have gotten jacked and packed like never before, well done
This is why I'm doing 531 program. Main focus on strength and speed for compound movements (squats, bench, DL, OHP) and then push/pull accessories bodybuilding style. I'm not a professional bodybuilder nor am I interested that much in size but I would like to be more "athletic" and overall just stronger and I feel like this program works fine for me. But at the end of the day, if you have big muscles you are strong. And vice versa, if you are moving big weights your probably have big muscles. I dont think you can exactly separate two that much. If you are going for 1 rep maxes all the time you will reach a point where your current muscles just can't produce enough force and you will have to increase muscle mass with classic BB style training.
I never got the hate for power building. Without actually doing a PL program it sounds like, heavy compounds 3-6 reps then high rep accessory/antagonistic exercises to balance it out. An example is heavy Deadlifts, then high rep : leg curls, lying lateral leg lifts, and walking lunges. Heavy Bench Press, high rep : lateral raises, chest flies and face pulls. What’s the problem with that approach ???
Why should one focus on either purely size or getting 3 arbitrary lifts to high level? Most people just want to get big muscles and also being strong. Sure, pure bodybuilding makes you pretty strong but "power building" does it better. But I'd prefer to not just stick to the 3 arbitrary lifts and do more compound lifts to focus on like OHP, weighted pull-ups and dips.
Want aesthetics and size? Do bodybuilding. Want strength? Do OLY! The “big 3” were accessory lifts for the real lifts - snatch and C&J. Those are explosive, whole body, GTOH movements with readily judgeable standards, enough to be in the Olympics. Powerlifting has become just a weird bastardization. I guess I agree with Rippetoe there!
Just out of context, I've been consuming your content for 2 years, and I learned English from you. I also built muscles because of your amazing videos. Thank you. P.S. Do English lessons or use fancy words.
This is a semantic minefield surrounding actions and intent. Your intent may be to induce hypertrophy but your actions may be a powerlifting program. Would this make you a powelifter or bodybuilder etc. Especially confusing given the overlap and desire for progression on lifts in all fields. Feel like Bald Omni man did a good job making these similarities known and cutting through the BS.
You definitely don’t have to be powerlifting strong to be big. But you do have to get stronger on certain different lifts that train the muscle group. Progressive overload is key for muscle building. Now that doesn’t mean you have to bench 500 lbs to have a big chest, cause obviously bench press is a lift of skill and strength and very leverage dependent. And obviously the more you practice a lift and the more frequent you do it your gonna get better and stronger at it and experience no additional muscle growth. Same thing for lifts like back squat and conventional deadlift are very skill and very leverage dependent. You see people deadlift 600 lbs and their posterior chain is lagging and hamstrings are flat! So it when it comes to the big three, you can never do those lifts and be massive muscular wise.
I respect all of the noble natties takes on this. I gotta say I agree with NHs take, if you actually listens to it unbiased. He talks truth when he says it's counterintuitive for people who train for size to do powerbuilding.
I always saw it as a mixture of low rep sets and high rep sets. I think bench, squat and deadlift get recommended so much is because they are fun to do. I don't think I'll ever walk into a gym and not see at least 1 person bench pressing. There might be a component of minimalist mindset in there but everybody's goals are different.
Social media has taken from us the ability to listen to someone else's opinion and see stuff from a different point of view. Everyone is in their own bubbles. People fight as religion vs religion Republicans vs democrats Anyone vs batman (prep time bro) Now it's rep ranges
I think people get what people who just chase hypertrophy are doing, they just dont get why unless your an actual bodybuilder. Im all for everyone doin there own thing . I just prefer chasing strength goals because you get practical benefits in terms of it translating to other activities and sports. I guess I would rather be built for go than show. Oversized Muscles in most sports and activities is a hindrance. I think alot of people who just chase size over all else are dealing with believing they are small. Pure observation and not criticism. As i said each to their own. Have a good one
One weird thing about this debate is that powerlifting owns the word "strength". Even Geoffrey in this video uses "strength" to mean 1RM on SBD regardless of technique/form. To me that's not strength, it's just powerlifting ability which uses technique and strength combined.
I think powerbuilding is a great way to find what you respond to. Many people, including myself does not respond the best to sets of 2-4 of anything and including some bodybuilding at times is essential for progress and getting to know your body. I think it is of more use to a powerlifter than a bodybuilder really. Also, you are free to have a excentric on the deadlift, it is much more stimulating too. You don't have to drop it
For me, the modern age of powerbuilding is just how bronze and silver era bodybuilders used to train. Most of them came from an athletic background (wrestling, Olympic weightlifting, Olympic sports like disc throwing) and the aim is to get stronger not just by lifting heavy but also getting stronger by performing high repetition exercises with minimal weight (their form of GPP work for conditioning) and doing weird lifts that target muscle groups that are impossible to hit with convenient lifts.
If you're both a history/religion nerd and a gym rat, correct me if I'm wrong on this analogy: if strength sports were like world religions then: Olympic weightlifting = Anglicanism (Church of England): Came from traditional practices and evolved into a more formalized and distinct practice, maintaining a sense of prestige. Bodybuilding = Roman Catholicism: Emphasizes display, ritual, and aesthetic aspects, with a strong focus on outward expressions of commitment. Strongman = Protestant Christianity (specifically Lutheranism): Breaks away from old hierarchies in an attempt to purify the practice, focusing more on direct individual action without formalities. Gym Bro culture = Evangelical Protestant Christians: Enthusiastic and less rigid, a freewheeling attempt to achieve the specific goals of earlier arts but through tradition, welcoming innovation within limits. Crossfit = Pentecostal Christians: Known for high energy, communal experiences, and intense, fervent devotion by its adherents. Calisthenics Athletes = Bahá'í or Rastafarianism: Organic, grassroots start, positioned as an alternative to more established practices. thoughts?
I mean bodybuilders can and will get stronger as the processed through their training...but they can not reach the full potential of strength because of their dieting..so very slowly gradually...the power strength athlete with doing doubles and singles will eventually build muscle regardless of rep sechme they just need to do more work capacity or diet just a little to get a leaner look...but to me a power builder looks more like a powerlifter then a bodybuilder....a very strong bodybuilder is just a bodybuilder..if that makes sense...
Here's the thing, though: Do the best powerlifters in the world only train the big 3 lifts? NO. They train the big 3 AND aim to improve those lifts through focusing on weak points through assistance exercises and even isolation exercises to gain strength and size on those muscles. So it is like bodybuilding, with the exception of being geared towards getting the best weights on those 3 lifts. So... powerlifters are powerbuilders too?
Geoff, this is my thinking at least to a point. I like your views similar to mine. Do think if you spent a little time focusing on improving your bench or whatever big chest exercises in the lower rep range it would translate across the board to help improve your isolation exercises. More stimulation for more muscle, along with good diet and rest recovery
I think back squat is the only lift worth doing out of the 3. I understand it is pretty high fatigue. But with elevated heels and good depth it brings your quads through a full range of motion. And adding 50lbs to my 8 rep max i’m obviously bigger. That being said squatting isn’t for everyone (even though I believe when most people say they’re too tall is just cope) you gotta find your bread and butter.
I disagree. All of them are worth doing, to one degree or another. They are important movements of the body, but doing them in the exact powerlifting way is unnecesary, and detracts from your hypertrophy most of the time.
For hypertrophy, isn’t using strength as a measurement for progress wrong then? If you’re training for size, then wouldn’t measuring your size be a better metric?
It's wrong but it's not very wrong as long as you keep technique / form fairly constant. It's much easier to measure strength than size. How are you going to measure the size of your lats for example?
Squat/lunges ( lunges are way better for overall lower body growth) ,deadlift,back row/pull down/pull up, overhead/shoulder press as a basis ,then use isolation exercises to fill in the gap for bodybuilding or just do compound lifts for actual athletic performance .
the issue is people do power building expecting that they will be as strong as possible whilst being as muscular which is not the case, if you want to max the results on one side you have to focus on one side but powerbuilding in its simplest form is great
How do you have these insanely good RDL numbers and a sub-par bench? I think your triceps and front Delts might be taking over too much. Have you tried the 30-45° incline bench on a smith machine?
i 100% agree when it comes to lifting people that dont compete are so obsessed with technique over just getting stronger. Making the lift harder is something i can get behind. Its exactly why i do conv over Sumo i easily have a stronger sumo and ive only done it once. Arnold says it best "Expose your weak points".
One could say it’s the best of both worlds. Also the opposite is equally true. Personally I believe a good idea is to cycle them. Personally I never practiced strength. Feel as bb gets me plenty of strength anyway,enough for my needs at least.
powerbuilding being a literal blend of powerlifting amd bodybuikding isnt great, but i think its much simpler its just beggining your workout with big lifts in a strength rep range then following uo wuth isolations in a huger rep range which is something many many people already do without ever hearing the word powerbuilding however, Alec enkiris and the Bioneers hybrid athlete training concept is the final form of powerbuilding, heavy compunds in strengths parameters, strongman style training like loaded carries, jump trainimg and kebttlble swings for power, lifts in the hypertophy range to build size and strength in specific portions of the body, its really the best for literaly building power and its pretty much the same type of off season training football players do so it makes sense, when i played football in high school. Thays pretty mich we did during summer conditioning we would do squat bench and powercleans, then some bodybuilding style stuff , and then wed hit the field for speed and agility work but thays also where we would do farmers walks and tire flip and sled sprints and box jumps and so on , think about it training for football is really transferable in alot of ways and builds a very useful and capable body , of course u can always modify as u please
I would imagine a significant portion of the gym population wants to get strong and build muscle with no intention of competing in either. I think a big chunk in the middle of the bell curve could go for a long time doing some flavor of powerbuilding.
I only care about size. But you mentioned with powerbuilding i will get there aswel 90/95%. Then it would be logically better to do powerbuilding? Because its also fun to see lifting numbers go up? And track progress that way
I can't understand why powerbuilding would be controversial, to me it's an easy way to measure progress, did my lift go up in the big 3 these past 3 months? If not maybe I have to look at changing something in my training. I don't rely solely on the big 3, I do a large variety, but I do the big 3 because they are my measuring stick for progress, along with amrap pull/chin ups. My main focus is overall strength and size, tilted more towards size than strength as my rep range is always 5+. It's also a great way to keep lifting fun, as you said, you can compare to others and see where you're at compared to your peers, which promotes friendly competition, which will keep people lifting for longer.
Andy Baker has a good approach to this. I think its a good approach for an intermediate trainee who isnt competing in anything and just enjoys lifting heavy with a bit more variety.
Big shoutout to everyone who's gotten my books, you help keep the channel going!
Book 1: SWEAT (beginners/intermediates)
www.verityfit.com/product-page/sweat
Book 2: Ring Training For Hypertrophy (ring enthusiasts)
www.verityfit.com/product-page/ring-training-for-hypertrophy
Book 3: Resurrecting Your Gains (intermediates/advanced lifters)
www.verityfit.com/product-page/resurrecting-your-gains-finding-your-muscle-growth-formula
❤
still waiting for the new boostcamp program geoff. how long will you tease me.
Seriously ppl, stop being fanbois. One of the ignobel natties makes a video using a strawman argument, and the others make reply videos. It's a grift.
Ah yes, the polite and nuanced exchange of ideas is a grift. Thanks for the laughs as always "pro athlete"@@proathlete8153
@@proathlete8153Nah, I’ve bought every one of Geoff’s books plus he coached me for 6 months. Very worth it and saw tremendous results. It ain’t a grift when someone sells the genuine article.
Pls stop fighting mom and dad it’s making me sad
Its giving me flashbacks when i tried to reach for the last tortilla at family gathering and all hell broke loose
Which one of them is mom?
Cringe
@@fichshreds2661I'd say NH is the mom
I think it’s better to say Swole Brothers of the Swole Counsel, than mom and dad lol
I like Steve Shaw's take on powerbuilding. It's a passion for strength and getting every muscle in your body as big and strong as you can. It doesn't have to be about getting the highest total, but you can still train the big three for strength while putting on a lot of size.
Like you said, most people aren't competing, so even if you don't maximize your 1RM strength, you're still going to put up good numbers on all your lifts and look great if you train hard and intelligently. Which is what most people want at the end of the day.
Agreed. I identified with Steve Shaw's definition and started powerbuilding again and I'm loving it. Not going back to just bb or just strength.
@@himeshsinghshishodiya Nice. I like doing the big three. Even if there are better options for hypertrophy, you can still get a ton of value out of them. And it's fun to get stronger and beat your previous performance, so that's why I like training for strength and size.
I think Steve coined the phrase or at least popularized it when he used to write a lot of content for various websites and mags, so I side with his definition.
Powerbuilding is a philosophy, not a method of training.
@@AthleticBodySystemsNC Ikr. It's just a different kind of passion we all relate to. Everyone is allowed to have different goals and passions as long as they aren't hurting anyone but unfortunately people don't understand.
@@DCJayhawk57 Jimmy Iron Bull Pelechia coined it long before Steve Shaw. I remember reading about in an article from him back in the mid 90s.
This topic is like the new "maingaining"; Folks arguing and disagreeing over nothing more than simple terminology.
💯
@@Ventryx Yeah, the initial NH video just screams fictitious bickering so all these influencers make response videos, everyone gets clicks and is happy.
Jokes on NH, I'm a Bodylifter
Sounds like an alternative name for calisthenics lol
lol i like that i want you
i keep it simple: i do the big three in the low rep range because they're fun but at the same time most of my work is bb oriented. easy.
Exactly the same mindset I use in my training. I like the big three, so I do them!
Yup, that's it.
Same
thats sounds a lot like power building!
@@NoMercy.62 no because I don't bb bench press ( I only do dumbell for hypertrophy also because I don't like barbell bench) I squat and bench once a week each. The rest is all bodybuilding.
Thank you for such a reasonable response. Steve Shaw put it simply, he cares about both size and strength, that’s it. This whole thing felt like a made up debate for clicks to anyone who took a second to think about it… oh wait this is the internet and we don’t do that here.
Humble reminder that we are still waiting for that video on ab training from you.
A little off-topic here but I’ve to say that you’re looking absolutely jacked. Your arms at 1:44 are looking especially gigantic. Chest, back and legs are also looking extremely huge. You’re a huge inspiration for all the natural lifters and you simply show what hard work, dedication and consistency can achieve. You’re a perfect example of that. Keep being incredibly phenomenal and big props to you for inspiring us all. Your physique is a masterpiece as it’s very great amount of muscle and quite healthy and sustainable body fat percentage that gives you a lean look without taking away from the size that is it still allows you to carry lots of muscle. It’s identical to legendary silver era bodybuilders where they’re lean but not too lean and also have plenty of muscle. It’s definitely my favourite look. Outstanding work! I’m truly grateful to you for all the helpful information, knowledge and valuable experience that you share with us. It’s quite amazing and really needed. Appreciate it so much. Thank you! 🙏💪👍👑
He’s literally one of the biggest naturals I’ve seen. Crazy mass and strength. Him and Alex are some of the biggest dudes, and Jeff Nippard. Honestly think he could play Batman with the size and height he is.
@@BigG627if rob Pattinson played Batman Geoff definitely can
@@BigG627Jeff Nippard is sus at best.
@@kudbettinkohen1935 ????? he is as big as alex, I think his proportions make him look bigger, Alex can also bench more than him too cmonnn
@@VentryxAlex and Jeff are the same height
10:38 "if you like power-building, and that is gonna keep you consistent, that is more important than pretty much anything else in the conversation" - GVS.
Closing in on that 255 bench rn can’t wait to be stronger than all pure natty UA-cam bodybuilders!
Lol
haha, nice work king! though alex might have something to say about that :P
@@matrixyst there are a few guys but theyre not pure bodybuilders! i have a chance
Plenty of people want to get bigger and stronger. So what if they don’t get “maximally” big or “maximally” strong? You can still get really big and strong! Nothing wrong with seeking a balance between those traits, the same way you seek balance between lifting and other life responsibilities
I started lifting at 37, and for the past 5 years I have been powerbuilding. I love the SBDOhp, and use a 531with accessories after each compound for the day. I don't plan on competing in powerlifting or bodybuilding, I am just trying to get as strong as I can, and enjoy my training to keep doing it as long as I live. I have gotten to a 1305 total and that keeps me engaged to keep getting stronger. Lift for you and your goals and don't worry about what label people put on it. Happy lifting everyone!
This is so dependent on definition.
I think the harmful one, which NH is talking about is: 1 rm bench - then some triples - then "hypertrophy work" with same exercise and then halfass some pushdowns and lat rows...
Which imo is very rare and most of the so called powerbuilders are just bodybuilders who focus little bit more on their strenght.
So if people dont define what are they talking about, there will be another 10 response videos on this already beaten to death topic.
ye
As an ex competitive (drug free) power lifter we didn't just do the big 3 for example if you want a good bench you want a big strong back and triceps...
Explain that to NH. He literally thinks everyone who does PL or powerbuilding is jason blaha clone. Most powerlifters I know are a 3 month cut away from being more jacked than 99% of bodybuilders.
@@naughtiousmaximus7853that's his biggest issue. Blaha lives in his head rent free
@@naughtiousmaximus7853 Is that even true though? I don't follow PL much, but I do watch the IPF worlds streams occasionally, and I can say with confidence most of the lifters look like shit, but they are strong as fuck. I've 100% seen really great looking powerlifters, but the reality is most of the guys competing in worlds don't look impressive considering the numbers they lift.
@@jaku8513 its local sample size. In general? I agree with you, lol.
@@jaku8513 Yea, the guy's coping hard. One of the most prominent powerlifters from my country constantly gets joked about in fitness circles as being like a twig and he's definitely not in the minority of powerlifters. Hell, look at people like Taylor Atwood and Samantha Eugenie if you don't believe me. Focusing on SBD leaves the shoulders, arms (except maybe triceps), upper-mid back and sometimes even quads underdeveloped. How are you gonna look jacked with half of your body underdeveloped? Yes btw, I understand that just like Olympic weightlifters, powerlifters wouldn't want to develop muscles that aren't going to have an effect on SBD because they are also trying to stay in their weightclass.
Unless the person is on steroids, obviously.
I'm actually impressed and thankful Geoffrey recognized how many people here are doing less than a plate on bench (no diss whatsoever ofc). We're so flooded with insane feats on social media, we really do lose track of reality. It's easily a single-digit percent of the people who WOULDN'T benefit from "powerbuilding" (and even that's up for debate as I've seen veterans with world-class strength use it)
I think the initial issue is for people to be honest with themselves why they are starting weight training. In my experience when I was a kid their were two camps for dudes. Impress girls: Bodybuilder approach. Impress other guys: Power-builder approach. Both have tremendous value when first starting and as you stated specialization comes with experience.
"I think the initial issue is for people to be honest with themselves why they are starting weight training."
This has been what people like Natural Hypertrophy and Basement Bodybuilding have been getting at for a while. But I don't just think the problem is with people being honest with themselves, it is with the information and nudging they get.
@@orkunakman1541 absolutely, it’s just harder for older channels to keep the focus on these topics. Since Covid the influx of fitness influencers and tiktok has flooded social media with so much trash it’s hard for newer generations to sift through all the content. It would behoove older channels to put more content on those newer platforms to further their own brand and give more no-BS content.
Bodybuilding pretty quickly becomes about impressing other guys too though. A bit of size is good, but anything much more than that and it starts becoming a turn off for girls, whether it’s because your ‘size’ is 30% body fat or because you’re lean but you’re PED big - all it ends up doing is impressing dudes.
i’m going for my first powerlifting competition in february, and before i hopped on alex bromley’s bullmastiff program (i’m on week 5 rn, loving it) i was running a self-made powerbuilding style program. the biggest difference i’ve noticed between powerbuilding and powerlifting is primarily muscle emphasis. i used to prioritize shoulders, bicep, and back in my program a lot for aesthetic purposes, and they didn’t interfere much with me slowly building up my sbd total.
in this new phase of training, i’ve noticed alex programs like half the volume on all those vanity but not so much sbd relevant muscle groups that i’m used to, and spams the hell out of powerlifting-relevant groups like hamstrings. i miss my lateral raises and i’m worried my back is gonna disappear without pull ups (i do them on the side sometimes lmao) but in the “base” phase of powerlifting training before the “peak” phase a lot of the stuff feels pretty damn powerbuildy. lots of high volume work, accessories in the 8-12 range…
I’m running Bullmastiff rn too, and I actually had to add some quad accessories on the first week of each block, b/c the intensity is so low. Besides that tho, I’ve enjoyed the program too, and may just repeat the base phase, since I’m not too focused on 1RM strength.
Working your side delts at the end of a workout won’t impact your recovery, you don’t have to run the program exactly as it’s written
@@legrandfromage9682haha very true. i’m just new enough to powerlifting that i didn’t wanna tweak the programming too much in case i fuck up something important on accident (i think i’m gonna add lateral raises back in lmao)
you will have decent carry-over from pullups to DL. maybe not in 1RM strength short-term, but being a bit tighter in your lats when you pull out the slack may get you a rep here and there, make you more efficient on the lift and save some recovery points, etc. same with shoulders and bench, having strong OHP is quite nice on bench actually, you are so strong off the chest from a dead stop if your OHP is nuts. I fucked off bb benching for a bit and did bb ohp instead and when I got back, my reps were so much more explosive. obviously, I would have made better progress on bench, have I kept benching (lol), but keeping yourself sane by doing something else is not entirely detrimental either. especially on low-fatigue cost exercises, where you can just do them for "free", like you're not gonna fuck over your next DL day if you do 3 sets of pullups the day before or even after the DL day honestly.
You're pretty justified in feeling that it is a bit 'powerbuildy' because, well, it is.
It's a common misconception that powerbuilding is its own thing, when it honestly really isn't. Powerbuilding essentially is what powerlifting is for ~90% of the year. It's really only within a few weeks to competition that powerlifting becomes what most people think of powerlifting being. (Few lifts, few reps/sets, high weight).
The vast majority of time spent as a powerlifter is lots of volume, high rep accessories etc. Very akin to bodybuilding, really.
he started a massive discussion, even Alan Thrall weighed in
In a previous video NH described the difference between Body Building and Powerlifting as being akin to the 100-meter dash and Marathon running. I just don't think the two are that many miles apart.
In a way, they are. Compare a low bar back squat, which is literally not even a primarily quad exercise anymore, to a front or hack squat. Compare how Dr. Mike does leg day to any powerlifter.
What the heck does that even mean? I did not say they were the same thing. I am suggesting that the difference is more like that between the 100-meter and 400-meter events rather than the 100-meter and marathon.
He has to exaggerate the difference while ignoring diminishing returns of size, he knows if he doesn’t say this most people will realize being a Jack of all trades is better than being a one trick pony which a minor advantage.
This topic is more for gym rats. When you coach enough people , you realize the best method is a lifestyle approach with weight training and mobility. All forms can be utilized to teach the general public. The last part was the most important part : ‘be careful of anyone saying that they have the perfect program’.
Train how you want for YOUR goals. Why do people care so much about how other people train?
Facts ☝️☝️
What I love about your videos is the comedy. Seriously, the quips and jokes you put in, add so much character to the videos.
Also, great and thought-provoking video. The problem I see with powerlifting is that it is in a similar situation as Olympic weightlifting. It is a specific competitive sport with lifts that don't necessarily transform to hypertrophy; but because of UA-cam fitness history, it somehow became coupled with bodybuilding. We all know about the ultra-wide sumo deadlifts, the ultra-low bar French style squats and ultra-arched bench press (I call it the ultrifecta), but even the milder processes of optimizing the lift technique to be able to lift more seem to be counter to the idea of bodybuilding.
Two examples that come to my mind.
-I constantly see comments like how squatting below parallel is unnecessary because it counts if you get to parallel (despite the fact that a lot of people aren't going to powerlifting meets ever in their life...).
-There was a Squat University video about how benching with a grip width that is twice the length between your outer clavicular edges is the most stable and will get you to lift the most weight. Why am I trying to optimize the power output instead of stimulus?
What is also weird is this equivicating of "Powerlifting" and the concept of strength (and in some places like Reddit, the concept of fitness). Why are we trying to say 1RM in 3 lifts is the epitome of strength, just because these are the 3 lifts that are measured in powerlifting competitions. Anybody who tried to do the same thing with lifts like snatch and C&J would be laughed at or at least would be looked at with confusing stares, but somehow the 1 RM of 3 lifts that don't even encompass the entire body is okay.
YES. People just want to put powerlifting on a pedestal. Meanwhile, the only strength sports in the Olympics is Oly. But you don’t see people fighting about doing snatch. Oh yeah, cuz you can’t cheat ground to overhead to get bigger numbers and stroke your ego.
The convo nobody wants to have
We all know the only sport that really epitomizes strength is Strongman!
It's a bit sad to see, really. It seems that online fitness tends to bias towards this type of thinking. Being the best or as good as possible on the big 3 (even if that means cutting ROM or taking other types of shortcuts) seems to be the standard.
Why I'm not sure, but I assume it has something to do with the big 3 being very easy to learn, especially compared to Olympic lifting. It's also very accessible for most people, since not everyone has the time or the money to invest into an Oly coach.
Strongman isn't very accessible either due to all the equipment used and space needed.
The 3 barbell lifts are simply just easily accessible, have a low barrier of entry and are a decent enough standard for most people to follow.
And influencers focus on it too, because they're incentivized by the potential for larger audiences.
The rest is just everyone trying to pretend that they're on the right side and do whatever to justify that what they're doing is the best because XYZ.
No other content creator educates me and at the same time makes me laugh as much as you. You are the best, best humor of the industry
As much as I like NH's content, in this case he is just fighting with a strawman he created himself.
he's lost the plot
There are people though who think everyone must do the big 3 and anyone who isn’t trying to maximize their powerlifting total is dumb
@@iangraham-white5717exactly
tbh, ive been drifting away from nh for a minute now.
@@vizari9570 yeah the more you learn about lifting the more NH sounds like he's pulling stuff out of his ass and trying to use his appearance and way of talking as an authority. Dude really does not know nearly as much as he says he does, also much less than the other YT fitness channels. He never coached anybody, does not "care" about science - so all his knowledge is basically from experience. He doesn't even really learn from other's anectodes, most often just dismisses them.
i dont really care about deadlifting, but i love squatting and bench pressing. the cool thing is that paused, knees over toes squats are really good for hypertrophy, and machine work is really good for squats. and medium grip, no leg drive, paused bench presses are really good for hypertrophy, and machines are also helpful. aka life is good
It depends on how you are built. For me I love to deadlift, the bench press is meh to me, and I really don't like to squat since I'm not built to squat at all but I am built to deadlift heavy weights. I don't squat very often since it doesn't feel good for me to do that movement pattern and the heavier the weight the worse the pattern feels but you would likely say the same about deadlifting.
@@fastedwarrior7353 nah, im kinda good at deadlifting and my bench sucks, ive got pretty long arms. My squat is mid too because of my long femurs. I think the only reason I like those lifts is because theyre hard, i like the chase. Deadlifts always felt more like a way to show off rather than an actual muscle builder
@@rafaelt8589 Oh I see so you’re more like me then.
@@fastedwarrior7353 update: got taller, my leverages changed and now deadlifting feels like death and pressing is easier... go figure
Why does it feel like when NH and GVS have a friendly argument it feels like the reverse manner in how Tyler Durden speaks and fights with his Brad Pitt alter ego
shhhhhhhh
shhhhhhhh
Bodybuilding without some strength focus is death. I like Bromley's suggestion of doing bodybuilding for a large period of time, dropping exercises and moving into something like Starting Strength for a shorter period of time and for a real minimal period of time peak out with power then take a break and start it all over again but with weights based on whatever you peaked at in the power phase. What I like is I'm always working towards something and right about when I'm burning out - it's time to switch. Good video and good advice.
No one even watched the NH video. It was a perfectly fine and reasonable take. There was no hate or disrespect even if he's wrong. So much salt in the comments.
Geoffrey: "Be wary of anyone who promises the perfect training system."
Still Geoffrey: "Alright, check out my books, they are the perfect training system"
A beat
Again Geoffrey: "Nailed it"
I don't think that Powerbuilding is that big of a problem, and maybe didn't constitute a video from NH. However, I think he really just wanted to express that it is ok to train for size only. He definitely wants to take back the label of bodybuilder and let lifters know that they don't have to care about their SBD.
Great take man. I looked at everyone's video on this. Even every opposing argument even to what I believe I see their point. All of you made great points. At the end of the day majority of people get to the gym to have above average strength and moreso look good. Small percentage aspire to be elite powerlifters or mass monsters which both are a lot harder to achieve especially naturally and especially being a combination of both
I have been doing weight training for most of my life since I was 16. Never with the specific goal of building maximal muscle _or_ maximal strenght, because my primary phisical activity has always been martial arts, sports and fighting. So I naturally drifted towards powerbuilding even though I heard that term today for the first time in my life. Powerbuilding is, always was and always will be the best method for me.
I have no problem with NHs video, he layed out both bad and good ways to do "power building", with the good way to do it falling in line with his definition of bodybuilding. The bad way of going about powerbuilding mostly comes down to sprinkling in bodybuilding training with the expectation that it will have a huge effect when it probably wont. I don't think NH would have any problem with someone powerbuilding in that way if they understood that their bodybuilding results would probably suck. It seems NH just wants everyone to understand the pros and cons of different elements of training, and yeah, he's a sensational and passionate guy, but thats why I watch him and that's what will get his message to the largest audience possible.
For putting on weight, improving balance, bone density, and general health, powerlifting makes a lot of sense for beginners since programming is simple and goals are easily measurable (how much can you lift on X). This allows people to persist long enogh to develop an interest in lifting and a habit of doing that regularly. I spent a few years in Planet Fitness hell messing around with a bunch of issolation exercises and making relatively unmeasurable progress before I settled down to focus on four lifts. This releived me of a lot of distraction and anxiety about doing things "right".
i just think there is no need for more strength at one point. If you have a solid strength base you're better off going for pure hypertrophy in my opinion. You'll still increase your strength in the 8-30 rep range, but you'll get more jacked.
I picture these 2 things as sliders when you fully focus on one it is impossible to maximize the other. You will NOT maximize hypertrophy if you are maximizing strength on the big 3 and vice versa. Power building to me is the in-between where you take on two tasks at a time and therefore will arrive at your goals significantly later. NH loves to take the most abrasive takes and run with them. Even NH himself has recognized that he is pretty dogmatic so this is par for the course.
I love what NH brought to the bodybuilding youtube scene in so many ways, but yes he can have a lack of self awareness at times. For example he thinks he uses a low-protein diet but then when he posts his actual diet he's eating chicken, turkey, whey, 4 croissants, sardines etc. all on the same day 😂
Exactly. I disagree with GVS on this one for anything except beginners.
I think most of us purely bodybuilding training guys are powerlifting refugees who found out we care more abour aesthetics than numbers. The issue is when a person lies to themselves about what they really want and becomes super dogmatic about "their" way of training being best for everyone, even if they have different goals. Which of course is ridiculous.
I've got 3 more weeks left of my current Bald omni-man boostcamp program which is awesome, then I'm starting your Ravage program can't wait!!!!
The nh powerbuilding video is his first clear L take
I have to agree with you on this one.
i disagree as well
"First" is being generous. He is very knowledgable but his chanel is full of complete broscience
@@lucajustluca8257 can you give us some examples?
@@NoMercy.62his CNS fatigue videos. If you see how he trains in his vlogs he isnt going nearly hard enough so obviously he thinks fatigue isn't a big deal
NH really missed the mark on this one in my opinion, this discussion is so pointless.
As a matter of fact some of his programs could be considered powerbuilding since it's focused on the big 3 + accessories.
@@oaksaint4458NH is literally powerbuilding.
I knew this was coming 😂😂
Started watching you a few days ago and now I'm hooked!
Welcome aboard!
I did powerbuilding for a year. I neither got power, nor did I gain much size. I did mediocre. I finally am treating strength and size as two different things and i am seeing better results.
You probably did it wrong
you did it wrong
Better results in wich? If you get better results in both you are literally just powerbuilding better😂
I agree as some1 who has been training for last 13 years i need to specialize to milk every ounce of gains that there is left. I personally dont even do compounds anymore except for bench which i do in smith machine. Loads i have to deal with to get stronger simple leave no gas in the tank for growth part once i have done my deadlifts my forearms ,hands are done i simply cant grip hard enough to also next do hypertrophy work. And training 6 times a week on top of that ? Nah something has to go out. That being said there is nothing wrong with PB when you are green newb who doesnt know wtf he wants from gym
You probably did it wrong, strength and size are not different things. Strength optimized in such a way that you're finagling range of motion for competition purposes is a different thing.
Forget powerbuilding, I would call into question the definition of strength itself. What does being strong mean?
For example does lifting more weight by optimizing leverages, reducing rom, or any other way of gaining advantage mean you got stronger? My opinion is no, you simply made the lift easier.
Neither should the idea of strength automatically refer to performance on 3 specific lifts but this should be obvious.
Absolutely agreed. If someone invents a new way to lift more weight on a squat, that's technique not strength as far as I'm concerned.
"Your not going to be as muscular as a bb and not as stong as a powerlifter"
Yes, this is exactly what I want!
What are your opinions now that NH decided you weren’t a cool kid anymore gefforey,I watched the video and it was the best unintentional comedy I have seen,it is like NH thinks he is infallible.
I guess it depends on your definition of powerbuilding. For me it's using bodybuilding exercises in an explosive manner with low rep ranges with the intention of gaining both strength and size. For me it doesn't mean using benchpress, squats or deadlift at all. But for other people I guess that's what it means.
If everyone uses a different definition, there's no point in having a debate.
and about the term power building, I understood Steve Shaw explanation and I like it so stick with what he said and leave the drama
This ("powerbuilding") is what I've always done naturally, it just didn't have a name for it yet. My dad taught me a method he used in the 1970s/80s which he then imparted to me when I was a kid and first started training. It's very simple and it goes like this: On any lift (doesn't matter what it is, bench press, squat, bicep curls, anything) you use a "workout weight" that is heavy enough that it enables you to get around 7-8 reps on your first set, but the #1 LAW of it is that you have to go to complete failure. Some people seem to have different definitions of what failure means, I've seen dudes put a weight up for 10 reps where the 10th rep is no slower than the 1st and then they rack the weight. That's not failure. What I mean when I say "failure" is all-out exertion to the last ounce of energy. By the final rep you should be red-faced, teeth-gritting, grunting, gasping for air type shit, and you should be so fatigued that you require at least 4 minutes (or even 5) recovery period between sets. That's what true failure means as far as I'm concerned.
So back to the method... you use a "working weight" (after your warmups obv) that puts you in the 7-8 rep range going to total failure. You do 3 sets using that weight (with 4-5 minute breaks in between sets) and then add up your total. So for example, let's say your first set was 8 reps, second set was 6 reps (because you're getting more fatigued after every set obv), and third set was 4 reps. Your 3-set total would be 18. That tells you you're using the perfect "workout weight". As your body adapts to that weight and grows, it will get easier and easier. Eventually you will get to the point where you can get that weight up for "10, 8, 6", and/or a 3-set total equaling 24 or greater. The day you get it up for 10 reps on your first set OR a 3-set total of 24 (whichever comes first) you have now "graduated" that weight, and can bump the weight up 10 lbs on your next workout, and that becomes your new workout weight. Rinse and repeat the process. Oh and for clarity, I'm not saying to ONLY do 3 sets...you can and should do 3 or 4 more sets at reduced weight following your "working sets". I'm just saying the first 3 sets of your working weight are the only ones that count towards your 3-set total, any subsequent sets are just to burn yourself out and shock the muscles.
This method carried my dad to an elite level bench press in the late 70s/early 80s before I was born. All natural, no roids. He has a whole wall of 1st place trophies from powerlifting competitions...his squat and deadlift were good too but his bench was his strongest lift, he was in the 148 lb weight class and was regularly hitting 335-345 in competition, and one time he supposedly hit 360 but this was not official as it wasn't during a powerlifting competition, it was just an unofficial beach contest type of thing. The point is, "powerbuilding" (as it's now been termed) is VERY viable for building both serious muscle size as well as serious muscle strength. Could my dad have lifted even greater weight if he had trained solely like a powerlifter (using the 1-5 rep range instead of 6-10)? Absolutely, and he was aware of that. But the "10, 8, 6" method (that's what we call it) was more than good enough for him to still clinch 1st place at almost every event he ever entered. It's the best of both worlds, using the "10, 8, 6" or "powerbuilding" method, you gain most of the strength of a powerlifter AND most of the hypertrophy of a bodybuilder. If you want to dedicate entirely to one of the two schools of lifting then it's probably best to go balls deep into JUST powerlifting or JUST bodybuilding. But for the rest of us who don't compete and just want to be very strong AND have big good-looking muscles, then powerbuilding is the way to go imo.
I'm 35 now, I lifted during my late teens and early 20s but then stopped at age 22 and didn't lift a weight again for over a decade. Last year I decided to get back into it because I was way too skinny (6ft tall and only weighed 153 lbs) and I was only benching 135 for reps. A little over one year later I am now 175 lbs and I'm benching 235 for 8 reps and my 1rm is getting close to 315 (not quite there yet but it's coming within probably a couple more months). Not that that's anything crazy special, I'm still nowhere near my dad's numbers. But that is extremely fast gains for a 14-month time period, it's literally faster than anyone else I've ever seen, except for those who are on roids obviously. And it's not just "noob gains" or muscle memory. I'm well past the noob gain and muscle memory phase, and still making relatively quick gains. Literally put on 22 lbs in one year and it was virtually all muscle mass as my bmi hasn't changed at all (I'm only 15% bmi, I don't believe in "dirty bulking" at all, I like to stay lean). It's to the point now where dudes at the gym are getting impressed and I'm unintentionally garnering attention and respect. Every single time I'm in the gym doing bench press or tricep pushdowns or cable rows, I'll have a nearby dude walk up to compliment me and say something like "dude you're getting huge, I seen you get big faster than anyone here, are you on any gear?" When I tell them I'm 100% natural, the next thing they ask is "then what the hell are you doing to progress this fast?" And that's when I tell them about the "10, 8, 6"/powerbuilding method if they're willing to hear it. Some end up implementing it themselves, but most of them just continue doing their 5x5s or pyramid lifts or whatever method they were already using, and they stay somewhat stagnant in their gains. The ones who listen and implement it get huge fast. I told my one buddy about this method a couple years ago and he implemented it and got gigantic in just 2 years, he blew up to 215 lbs and is currently benching 305 for 8-9 reps and is squatting 365 for reps and deadlifting 435 for reps. Dude's an absolute unit and he regularly gets asked if he's on gear and when he says no, most people think he's lying lmao.
Anyone who tries this and takes it seriously (going to total failure, not leaving anything on the table) will get huge quicker than just about any other method I've heard as of yet. I'm confident as fuck in that statement. If anyone who's reading this has been looking for a change in their regimen and wants to try something new, try the workout style I just outlined (and of course still make sure you're getting in your daily protein requirements), and you will build mass and strength like you never have before. The nice thing is it's super simple to remember: "if I hit this weight for 10 reps, then I get to move up 10 lbs on the next workout day" and that's it. Your only competition is your own self, always trying to exceed the rep count of your previous workout. It's simple, it's fun, and it leads to...fast gainz. Who the hell wants to wait 5 years for gainz like 90% of gym goers do? There's no need for that, you can have it in a year or two. Just use the 10-8-6 method and go to absolute failure every set.
Hope this has been an interesting/useful read to whoever may have wanted to hear it, it took me a little while to type up lol.
I enjoyed that. Lately I’ve gravitated towards something like your dads working sets.
@@logang1470This shit works because it autoregulates intensity and promotes progression. So simple yet so effective.
What exercises do you use it on? What were his Squat and DL numbers? 10-8-6 to failure on squats?
@@shinedown394 use it literally on anything, just dont overdo the volume. Keep it between 6 and 12 sets per week for muscle groups.
@@naughtiousmaximus7853 Exactly! 6-12 sets per week.. I take it you do the same shit?
Training strength for a variety of lifts also leads to more hypertrophy vs just training strength for SBD. I train weighted chin ups, dips, OHP, and strict curl also for strength.
This also depends on what workout routine you do.
With full body workouts you always do the heavy compounds first.
You also workout the largest muscle group first. 3-4 sets each. 8-12 reps. So.
Back. compound lift
Chest compound
Legs compound
Leg isolation exercise.
Shoulders compound
Chest.
cable flies, pec deck
Arms. Whatever exercises you like. You have already done heavy arm work with the back and chest compounds. So now u do isolation work.
And if you want to hit these. At the end do.
Calves
Forearms
I don't watch Natural Hypertrophy but the few times I've come across his takes he comes off as kind of holier-than-thou. Is he usually like this or have I only heard about his worst takes?
Its his default mode. Anything ushered from his mouth is a fact.
Yeah I noticed that as well,he thinks he is infallible. He also grooms his novice small and weak fanbase into being “ ideologically pure “ like a cultists lmao
Got the same vibe
Okay ill just not talk about anything related to the subject at hand, I just have to mention that your neck and upper traps have gotten jacked and packed like never before, well done
This is why I'm doing 531 program. Main focus on strength and speed for compound movements (squats, bench, DL, OHP) and then push/pull accessories bodybuilding style. I'm not a professional bodybuilder nor am I interested that much in size but I would like to be more "athletic" and overall just stronger and I feel like this program works fine for me.
But at the end of the day, if you have big muscles you are strong. And vice versa, if you are moving big weights your probably have big muscles. I dont think you can exactly separate two that much. If you are going for 1 rep maxes all the time you will reach a point where your current muscles just can't produce enough force and you will have to increase muscle mass with classic BB style training.
love this thumb lol, nice content bro
I never got the hate for power building. Without actually doing a PL program it sounds like, heavy compounds 3-6 reps then high rep accessory/antagonistic exercises to balance it out. An example is heavy Deadlifts, then high rep : leg curls, lying lateral leg lifts, and walking lunges. Heavy Bench Press, high rep : lateral raises, chest flies and face pulls. What’s the problem with that approach ???
Why should one focus on either purely size or getting 3 arbitrary lifts to high level?
Most people just want to get big muscles and also being strong. Sure, pure bodybuilding makes you pretty strong but "power building" does it better. But I'd prefer to not just stick to the 3 arbitrary lifts and do more compound lifts to focus on like OHP, weighted pull-ups and dips.
Want aesthetics and size? Do bodybuilding. Want strength? Do OLY! The “big 3” were accessory lifts for the real lifts - snatch and C&J. Those are explosive, whole body, GTOH movements with readily judgeable standards, enough to be in the Olympics. Powerlifting has become just a weird bastardization. I guess I agree with Rippetoe there!
well put as always brother
Now the NH shockwave has reached big daddy GVS too 😰
Just out of context, I've been consuming your content for 2 years, and I learned English from you. I also built muscles because of your amazing videos. Thank you.
P.S. Do English lessons or use fancy words.
This is a semantic minefield surrounding actions and intent. Your intent may be to induce hypertrophy but your actions may be a powerlifting program. Would this make you a powelifter or bodybuilder etc. Especially confusing given the overlap and desire for progression on lifts in all fields. Feel like Bald Omni man did a good job making these similarities known and cutting through the BS.
You definitely don’t have to be powerlifting strong to be big. But you do have to get stronger on certain different lifts that train the muscle group. Progressive overload is key for muscle building.
Now that doesn’t mean you have to bench 500 lbs to have a big chest, cause obviously bench press is a lift of skill and strength and very leverage dependent. And obviously the more you practice a lift and the more frequent you do it your gonna get better and stronger at it and experience no additional muscle growth.
Same thing for lifts like back squat and conventional deadlift are very skill and very leverage dependent. You see people deadlift 600 lbs and their posterior chain is lagging and hamstrings are flat!
So it when it comes to the big three, you can never do those lifts and be massive muscular wise.
I respect all of the noble natties takes on this. I gotta say I agree with NHs take, if you actually listens to it unbiased. He talks truth when he says it's counterintuitive for people who train for size to do powerbuilding.
14:13
"My goals are beyond your understanding."
3:13 same situation. Got my L5-S1 blown out so I was forced to adapt and discovered a more optimal training style
I always saw it as a mixture of low rep sets and high rep sets.
I think bench, squat and deadlift get recommended so much is because they are fun to do. I don't think I'll ever walk into a gym and not see at least 1 person bench pressing. There might be a component of minimalist mindset in there but everybody's goals are different.
Social media has taken from us the ability to listen to someone else's opinion and see stuff from a different point of view.
Everyone is in their own bubbles.
People fight as religion vs religion
Republicans vs democrats
Anyone vs batman (prep time bro)
Now it's rep ranges
What does this have to do with me getting 20 inch arms
I think people get what people who just chase hypertrophy are doing, they just dont get why unless your an actual bodybuilder. Im all for everyone doin there own thing . I just prefer chasing strength goals because you get practical benefits in terms of it translating to other activities and sports. I guess I would rather be built for go than show. Oversized Muscles in most sports and activities is a hindrance. I think alot of people who just chase size over all else are dealing with believing they are small. Pure observation and not criticism. As i said each to their own. Have a good one
One weird thing about this debate is that powerlifting owns the word "strength". Even Geoffrey in this video uses "strength" to mean 1RM on SBD regardless of technique/form. To me that's not strength, it's just powerlifting ability which uses technique and strength combined.
This discussion is always a clusterfuck
This whole discussion makes no sense. Thanks, NH...
I think powerbuilding is a great way to find what you respond to. Many people, including myself does not respond the best to sets of 2-4 of anything and including some bodybuilding at times is essential for progress and getting to know your body. I think it is of more use to a powerlifter than a bodybuilder really.
Also, you are free to have a excentric on the deadlift, it is much more stimulating too. You don't have to drop it
For me, the modern age of powerbuilding is just how bronze and silver era bodybuilders used to train. Most of them came from an athletic background (wrestling, Olympic weightlifting, Olympic sports like disc throwing) and the aim is to get stronger not just by lifting heavy but also getting stronger by performing high repetition exercises with minimal weight (their form of GPP work for conditioning) and doing weird lifts that target muscle groups that are impossible to hit with convenient lifts.
If you're both a history/religion nerd and a gym rat, correct me if I'm wrong on this analogy: if strength sports were like world religions then:
Olympic weightlifting = Anglicanism (Church of England): Came from traditional practices and evolved into a more formalized and distinct practice, maintaining a sense of prestige.
Bodybuilding = Roman Catholicism: Emphasizes display, ritual, and aesthetic aspects, with a strong focus on outward expressions of commitment.
Strongman = Protestant Christianity (specifically Lutheranism): Breaks away from old hierarchies in an attempt to purify the practice, focusing more on direct individual action without formalities.
Gym Bro culture = Evangelical Protestant Christians: Enthusiastic and less rigid, a freewheeling attempt to achieve the specific goals of earlier arts but through tradition, welcoming innovation within limits.
Crossfit = Pentecostal Christians: Known for high energy, communal experiences, and intense, fervent devotion by its adherents.
Calisthenics Athletes = Bahá'í or Rastafarianism: Organic, grassroots start, positioned as an alternative to more established practices.
thoughts?
BEEF BEEF BEEF BEEF!!! FIGHT !!!! FIGHT!!!! FIGHT!!!! FIGHT!!!!
I mean bodybuilders can and will get stronger as the processed through their training...but they can not reach the full potential of strength because of their dieting..so very slowly gradually...the power strength athlete with doing doubles and singles will eventually build muscle regardless of rep sechme they just need to do more work capacity or diet just a little to get a leaner look...but to me a power builder looks more like a powerlifter then a bodybuilder....a very strong bodybuilder is just a bodybuilder..if that makes sense...
Here's the thing, though:
Do the best powerlifters in the world only train the big 3 lifts? NO. They train the big 3 AND aim to improve those lifts through focusing on weak points through assistance exercises and even isolation exercises to gain strength and size on those muscles. So it is like bodybuilding, with the exception of being geared towards getting the best weights on those 3 lifts. So... powerlifters are powerbuilders too?
The rabbit hole goes deeper 😂
He's one of the few fitness youtubers that I actually trust.
Geoff, this is my thinking at least to a point. I like your views similar to mine. Do think if you spent a little time focusing on improving your bench or whatever big chest exercises in the lower rep range it would translate across the board to help improve your isolation exercises. More stimulation for more muscle, along with good diet and rest recovery
I think back squat is the only lift worth doing out of the 3. I understand it is pretty high fatigue. But with elevated heels and good depth it brings your quads through a full range of motion. And adding 50lbs to my 8 rep max i’m obviously bigger. That being said squatting isn’t for everyone (even though I believe when most people say they’re too tall is just cope) you gotta find your bread and butter.
Agree. I never got the stretch at the bottom on quads of a paused atg squat neither from Smith machine squat nor leg press. And it shows.
I disagree. All of them are worth doing, to one degree or another.
They are important movements of the body, but doing them in the exact powerlifting way is unnecesary, and detracts from your hypertrophy most of the time.
You say high fatigue like it is something bad 😅
@@pablov1323you can definitely get it from the smith machine
@@kapoioBCSIt can be for bodybuilding
It's getting as strong and big as possible!
For hypertrophy, isn’t using strength as a measurement for progress wrong then? If you’re training for size, then wouldn’t measuring your size be a better metric?
It's wrong but it's not very wrong as long as you keep technique / form fairly constant. It's much easier to measure strength than size. How are you going to measure the size of your lats for example?
Squat/lunges ( lunges are way better for overall lower body growth) ,deadlift,back row/pull down/pull up, overhead/shoulder press as a basis ,then use isolation exercises to fill in the gap for bodybuilding or just do compound lifts for actual athletic performance .
the issue is people do power building expecting that they will be as strong as possible whilst being as muscular which is not the case, if you want to max the results on one side you have to focus on one side but powerbuilding in its simplest form is great
I’m running Layne Nortons power building program PHAT on Boostcamp right now. It’s been fun so far and definitely feel like proper workouts.
Knowing what you want to do and knowing what you have to do is what gives you the strength.
How do you have these insanely good RDL numbers and a sub-par bench? I think your triceps and front Delts might be taking over too much. Have you tried the 30-45° incline bench on a smith machine?
Ronnie Colemann was training for both.
He was chasing lifting heavy in the deadlift for example
i 100% agree when it comes to lifting people that dont compete are so obsessed with technique over just getting stronger. Making the lift harder is something i can get behind. Its exactly why i do conv over Sumo i easily have a stronger sumo and ive only done it once. Arnold says it best "Expose your weak points".
The very occasional GVS upload
One could say it’s the best of both worlds. Also the opposite is equally true.
Personally I believe a good idea is to cycle them. Personally I never practiced strength. Feel as bb gets me plenty of strength anyway,enough for my needs at least.
powerbuilding being a literal blend of powerlifting amd bodybuikding isnt great, but i think its much simpler its just beggining your workout with big lifts in a strength rep range then following uo wuth isolations in a huger rep range which is something many many people already do without ever hearing the word powerbuilding however, Alec enkiris and the Bioneers hybrid athlete training concept is the final form of powerbuilding, heavy compunds in strengths parameters, strongman style training like loaded carries, jump trainimg and kebttlble swings for power, lifts in the hypertophy range to build size and strength in specific portions of the body, its really the best for literaly building power and its pretty much the same type of off season training football players do so it makes sense, when i played football in high school. Thays pretty mich we did during summer conditioning we would do squat bench and powercleans, then some bodybuilding style stuff , and then wed hit the field for speed and agility work but thays also where we would do farmers walks and tire flip and sled sprints and box jumps and so on , think about it training for football is really transferable in alot of ways and builds a very useful and capable body , of course u can always modify as u please
Again geoff all facts no feelings. The first proper video on this subject. The other guys made opinion pieces that made no sense
I would imagine a significant portion of the gym population wants to get strong and build muscle with no intention of competing in either. I think a big chunk in the middle of the bell curve could go for a long time doing some flavor of powerbuilding.
The frenchman just boiled UA-cam fitness
I only care about size. But you mentioned with powerbuilding i will get there aswel 90/95%. Then it would be logically better to do powerbuilding? Because its also fun to see lifting numbers go up? And track progress that way
I can't understand why powerbuilding would be controversial, to me it's an easy way to measure progress, did my lift go up in the big 3 these past 3 months? If not maybe I have to look at changing something in my training. I don't rely solely on the big 3, I do a large variety, but I do the big 3 because they are my measuring stick for progress, along with amrap pull/chin ups. My main focus is overall strength and size, tilted more towards size than strength as my rep range is always 5+. It's also a great way to keep lifting fun, as you said, you can compare to others and see where you're at compared to your peers, which promotes friendly competition, which will keep people lifting for longer.
Love your vids bro❤
Andy Baker has a good approach to this. I think its a good approach for an intermediate trainee who isnt competing in anything and just enjoys lifting heavy with a bit more variety.