Pastor REACTS: Latter-day Saint History in Utah
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- What happened at the Mountain Meadows Massacre? Who was Brigham Young? What happened in the St. George Temple? Pastor Jeff Explores.
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Hello Saints! My name is Jeff McCullough and I'm a Christian Pastor.
This channel is devoted to fighting criticism with curiosity as I invite dialogue between mainstream Christians and Latter-day Saints. Are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Christians? What do Evangelicals and Latter-day Saints agree and disagree about? Join me as I compare and contrast the lifestyle, culture and beliefs of Mormons and non-LDS Christians.
If you enjoyed this video, you might enjoy this video of Jeff going through a Latter-day Saint temple for the first time: • Pastor and Latter-day ...
Chapters:
00:00:00 - Utah's LDS Subculture
00:01:05 - Pine Valley Chapel
00:02:52 - Mountain Meadows Massacre
00:04:38 - Brigham Young's Home
00:06:23 - St. George Temple
00:08:24 - BHurdInUtah.com
00:10:30 - Brigham Young's Grave
#LatterDaySaints #temple #utah - Розваги
What part of Latter-day Saint History in Utah should Pastor Jeff explore next??
Explore about the main purpose of God why He talked to Joseph Smith and why He chose Joseph Smith to restore His Church.
Please do that :)
The Church History Museum. I think you could learn a lot there and you might even be able to video some of it too…haha!
By the way, that weather seemed a lot nicer in that video. 😂 It was cool to see Pine Valley! I grew up going there and camping with my family even though I’m originally from So Cal. We still meet there for reunions and my boys helped to bless and pass the sacrament this last summer while visiting. Great place and oasis in the desert. Thanks! 🤙🏻
You could come see the Easter Pageant in Mesa, AZ in March. The pageant is the largest outdoor Easter pageant in the world. The Saints that settled Mesa revived the Native American irrigation system to help farm the land. @CWIC media could probably give you a tour.
To contrast the American love you noticed in this one, you could look into the first Independence Day and/or The Utah War and Johnson's army. We weren't always so happy with this country.
It would be very interesting for you to travel to a place such as Africa, Asia, or South America to see how the church functions there.
I am consistently left uplifted and inspired by your thoughts. Thank you so much. btw, I second the suggestion to explore " Welfare Square and the humanitarian center". Even as a church member, I am stunned by how the church's humanitarian efforts extend worldwide.
Note to you Pastor Jeff as horrible as Mountain Meadows Massacre was you failed to mention the greater context of the event. Two months before the citizens of the Territory were informed that had been declared to be in rebellion and the US army was sent after them. So Mountain Meadows did not occur in a vacuum but as part of a larger event of a lot of scared people who were on a war footing. I say this not excuse the massacre but bring why would it happened. When you exclude the Utah War from that it gives the false impression "Mormons" are uncivilized and dangerous.
One of the factors with the connection between early American culture and church culture is that in our revelations God says he brought fourth the United States to create a place with sufficient religious freedom to enable the restoration to take place. The founding fathers of the USA were inspired of God to do what they did. Given all the persecution and violation of their freedoms the early Saints endured it seems pretty clear that the restoration could not have happened anywhere else in the world at that time. The religious freedom that is common now in western nations only exists because of what America's founding fathers set in place.
For a time new converts from around the world were encouraged to migrate to Utah and strengthen the church there, which made sense for that time, but once there was a strong enough base members no longer asked do do that but encouraged to stay in their homelands and build the church there. It is now very much a global church with more members outside the USA than inside it.
I appreciate your respectful approach so much, curiosity instead of criticism. Thank-you
I'm a convert. My parents are from Michigan, they moved here for a job before I was born. They weren't church goers, never joined a church.
I joined the LDS church while in Tucson, AZ when my former husband was in the Airforce there.
Thank-you again for your time and respectful explanations
Great video, Jeff. I love how you said you are willing to learn and adapt to the culture in Utah. I brought my family to Utah 18 years ago when my kids were in elementary school. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I get along great with my LDS neighbors and some of them are even like family. It's all about adapting to the culture and seeing the positives.
I read an excellent book about The Mountain Meadows Massacre, which was written by a church historian. Such a terrible thing. Something interesting that he noted: the land used to be literally "full of meadows," but in between the time of the massacre and now, that area is just a desert. It's like the blood is crying from the dust (kind of reminds me of a passage from the Book of Mormon that I've always loved). Thank you for telling this story so compassionately. It's a part of our own history we're definitely not so proud of.
What passage in the Book of Mormon?
Another great video Pastor Jeff! Thank you for exploring our world in such a Christlike way, we appreciate it.
That's so neat about the wood in the original tabernacle organ. My great grandfather did some work on the building and in the attic was stored some of the original wood organ pipes. They were throwing them away since they replaced them and he saved one of the smaller ones and that got put in his attic. When he passed my parents found it and kept it and I grew up with it. Its so neat to hear about the place where the wood came from to make it.
So cool to hear you and your family have moved to Utah! Welcome 🙏
Great video, as always. Now you need to tour the other Pioneer Temple in Manti when it opens its doors in March!! It has the most beautiful murals of any temple and has a rich history to match. We can't wait for it to reopen again!! Merry Christmas to you and your beautiful family. We are so glad you are here.
When I post a comment and the first comment I see has the same opening line.😅
It’s too bad the Manti miracle pageant is no longer performed. He would really enjoy it I think.
3:34 Mountain Meadows was the result of a leader not listening to Brigham’s counsel. He led his choices with fear instead of faith in God to deliver them. Thanks for clarifying that the letter to stand down came late because many don’t get that when they read about it.
Ohh interesting
...why would any good LDS member be motivated to kill? After all, that's the fifth commandment right? Thou Shalt not kill.
Were the LDS members taught to avenge the death of Jospeh and Hyrum? Was that a part of the Temple ceremony at that time?
Did they think theses pioneers were responsible for the the death of Joseph and Hyrum? I would think that no rational LDS member would just feel justified in killing. So, what motivated this leader, as you stated, to do this?
@@BGCflyer I am not sure of the answer to most of your questions, but LDS members sometimes aren't taught what is and isn't "right". Not everybody is perfect and we all make mistakes. I have no idea what motivated this leader to do this, but guess what? He'll be judged by God in the last day, and we are not to judge. 😊
@@BGCflyer are soldiers who fight terrorism going to hell? Or their generals who order them to bomb a place etc? Brigham Young was the general over that area basically. Yes, fighting terror is a good thing. Terror is a bad thing to continue to enable.
@@zionmama150 We don't know, only God does
Very nice, relaxed video. Based on a recent interview you gave, I'm one of the 2%-5% of your audience that is not LDS. I also wouldn't call myself evangelical. I'm a believer, just not that flavor of belief. Keep up the good work.
Also a 2% er! Woot woot!😂
Me 2% 😂
I belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and I think Pastor Jeff's realtor friend put it best: Whatever your beliefs are, "Glad you're here!" :)
Especially in the Christmas season, I'm thankful for a channel that builds peace and understanding between all sorts of Christian believers.
Me, too! I’m of the Reformed ilk.
2% myself, and also new to Utah (Washington).
The oldest LDS chapel is the Garfield Elm Chapel in Pendock in Worcestershire England. It was built in 1836.
Oldest yes, but it has not been in continuous use from the time it was first built. The church sold the place in 1842. In 1994 it was purchased by a group of church members who restored the building and in 2004 they donated it to the church. I visited the site in the mid 80's when on my mission and the building was in ruins, only a couple of the outer walls were still standing. I have a picture of myself there.
I really enjoy your videos. It’s refreshing to take a look at the LDS Church’s. A lot of churches refuse to recognize the LDS Church as Christian. I think they are along with Jehovah’s Witnesses. My dad was a Lutheran Pastor and never really taught me about other religions. So I’ve taken it myself to embark on a journey to learn about other religions. I’ve been focusing on the JW faith. Now I’m moving on to the LDS faith. You' e been a n IG help Pastor Jeff! Keep up with the great content!
...Pastor Jeff has done a great job of being kind about sensitive subjects in LDS history. Sadly, so much truth about LDS history is covered up and when people find out, they often will leave the church.
I think LDS are nice and kind people, but their doctrine require the believe in additional scripture like the Pearl of Great Price which contains the Book of Abraham for example. The book of Abraham was supposedly translated by Joseph Smith, but Egyptologist have shown it's 100% not correctly translated. Understandably, the LDS church doesn't like to talk about these things, but this, among other beliefs, puts them on the outskirts of Christianity.
LDS do believe in the man, Jesus of Nazareth and call him their elder brother and the Son of God. They believe strongly that ordinances like baptism, washing and anointing and receiving an endowment are required to be in the highest of the Celecial Kingdom. Anyway, it's interesting stuff for some people.
I am exploring a bit about the Lutheran Church so your comment caught my eye. God bless on your journey of exploration!
A significant claim of the lds church is that the Bible is incomplete. Therefore additional scripture is needed for clarification and expansion on doctrine. John 21:25 explains how no book can contain all that Jesus did even in his short mortal ministry in the holy land.
Sadly, the largest portion of the book of Abraham manuscript was burned in a fire before scholars could analyze it. Claims can’t really be made with that large portion missing.
The lds church believes in Jesus of Nazareth and uphold the belief of salvation by faith[in Christ], repentance[through christ], and baptism[father, son and Holy Ghost].
It’s not that the lds church ignores its history, there are tons of resources available provided by the church. The church naturally focuses on the most important things in meetings and such.
@@thatonedude.8440 ...I'd like to comment on John 21:25 If there are other writings about the miracles that Jesus did, then by all means share it with the world! John 21:25 only states there were more miracles done that weren't recorded. Other books that were not included in the Bible were discarded because they were not written during the time of Jesus. For a New Testament writing to be considered scripture, it needs to have been written by an eye witness or witnesses of other eye witnesses (like Luke) of the supernatural miracles that Jesus did. Manuscripts of these writings can be analyzed by carbon dating, analyzing the material used, the writing ink, style, etc. We have over 5,000 Greek manuscripts and 10,000 Latin manuscripts of the New Testament books so we can see the authenticity and consistency in the writing. If the writing doesn't meet those criterion, then they are not included as scripture.
The Book of Mormon on the there hand, has no manuscripts to support it, so there is no way to know if it was truly written 600BC-400AD. If the BofM was truly written when it was stated, there would be thousands of manuscripts somewhere in the Americas. This is what people did so they could share and read them in the churches. It's odd how in Israel, Turkey and Greece we have found thousands of manuscripts, yet in the America's, not one manuscript? Not one is going to take the Book of Mormon seriously as scripture without manuscripts. This is why LDS say to pray about it. Notice, no one asks you to pray about the Bible.
The Book of Abraham has been proven to be falsely translated. Not only are the facsimiles incorrect, but the parchment of papyri found (not manuscripts, actual papyri) shows how incorrect the translation was done. It was actually the "Breathing Permit of Hor". Dr. Ritner from the University of Chicago Institute for the Study of Ancient Cultures, explains the details of this through extensive research in his book, "The Breathing permit of Hor among the Joseph Smith Papyri" JNES 62, pp. 161-180.
Even the Church admits it. From the "Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham", the church writes, "Latter-day Saint and non-Latter-day Saint Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham..." So the translation of the fragments are wrong, what would make us believe the rest of the missing parts were somehow translated correctly.
So much of what the LDS church teaches comes from Joseph Smith's translation of the Bible, ie. the Books of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price and from the Book of Abraham. So, I find it interesting how easily people believe he translated all of these writings when in fact he didn't translated correctly. If you want to say he was inspired or received revelation, then I could buy that, but revelation and translation not the same thing.
I absolutely love my pioneer heritage! I just found out that my 3rd great grandfather, who was William Draper Jr, the city of Draper was named after him and he was the first bishop and mayor of that city. I love that so much. There’s more I have to dive in to because that history is so rich in my blood! Love that you went to experience St. George! Thanks for doing all this! 💕
Hello relative. William Draper Jr was my husband's 3rd great grandfather. 😊
@@richellehunt153 that’s wonderful!! Hello! I love meeting family!
Wow!
Some of my ancestors settled Draper too!
@@angela_flute52689 cool!
Pastor Jeff, As a member I appreciate your efforts to look at Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in a positive light.
The Mountain Meadow Massacre is a dark stain on our history. However it it is perplexing and fascinating trying to understand how a peace loving people wanting only to be left alone could allow something like this to happen. I suggest a book "Massacre at Mountain Meadows: An American Tragedy" by Ronald W. Walker, Richard E. Turley, and Glen M. Leonard.
The story is not simple and includes protection of a town from Indians a fear of Federal Troops dispatched by President James Buchanan to put down the Utah Rebellion, members suffering from memories of of attacks on earlier settlements, misunderstanding and misinformation of Brigham Young's rhetoric and military strategy during the infamous "Utah War", indecision, and personal vendettas.
As always, Thank You for your kind and respectful exploration of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I’m trying to wrap my head around your quotation of Hebrews 1:1-2 with the comment that because of Christ no further guidance from prophets was needed. If God has established His pattern of communicating with His children on earth, why would He deviate from that pattern? All through the Old Testament, God spoke to His children via Jehovah (Christ) speaking to prophets, who were leading Israel. In the early days of The New Testament, Christ was born, developed His mortal body, and taught God’s children directly. After Christ’s resurrection, God’s children were taught continuously through revelations given to the prophets and apostles, who remained on earth until their death, when the “apostasy” transpired.
As you know, with our belief of the “restoration” of God’s church and authority on earth, why wouldn’t God continue to teach and guide His children in the same manner via a living prophet and apostles? One meaningful piece of modern day prophetic counsel I can think of is “The Family Proclamation,” which, in 1995 at the time of declaration, felt kind of odd and gave me a sense of “Well, Duh.” But now, in the current environment and degradation of families and gender confusion, I completely understand why those prophetic words were necessary. I do have a strong testimony of prophets and their constant, ongoing revelations as they are received from God for all of His children. Merry Christmas!!
It might help if I quote the background history from my Bible on the book of Hebrews: "This letter was written to a group of Jewish Christians, probably around 64 AD [long after Jesus' death and resurrection, I'll add]. The Jewish Christians (who had fallen under persecution) were despairing of the faith and were tempted to return to Judaism. To point out the superiority of the Christian religion, and to encourage them, the writer inscribed his [her?] epistle. He emphatically points out that Christ is greater than the prophets, angels, Moses, Joshua, and Aaron. God had spoken through each of these, but now He spoke through Christ, His Son!"
From my own study of the Bible and personal experience, Jesus changed everything. Emmanuel means "God with us". Jesus is superior (God) to anything and anyone former or future. And that is why we as believers are now baptized with the fire of the Holy Spirit (also God indwelling the temples of our bodies) and He does give some the gift of prophesy to encourage the church (God's bride), but the Bible alone has everything God intends us to need in the matter of right doctrine. We can grow in our understanding of passages as they pertain to the past, present or future situations, but it *we* who are changing and not God. The Bible says clearly that God is the same yesterday, today and forever.
@@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328 Nicely explained.
Jesus Christ is our living Prophet, Priest and King!
Just to add my 3 cents plus tax: In Eph 2 vs20 it says that the Church is built on a foundation of apostles and prophets. In Matt. 7 vs15-20 it talks about how to know false prophets.
If there were to be no more Prophets, it seems that Jesus would have said "all who claim to be a prophet are false prophets," instead of providing us with a way to test a prophet. Why would He provide a formula like this if there were to be no more prophets at all?
It seems to me that today there is great confusion about the nature/character of God and His will, even though we have the Bible. That is why there are so many different Christian religions. Sounds to me like we still need a prophet today to explain it all and help us make modern day application of His gospel to the problems of our day.
@@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328 But, if that is the case, why was it necessary for Christ's apostles to continue to teach His gospel until their demise? Obviously His gospel had to be continuously taught to God's children. I don't think that God would deviate from His pattern of the ongoing instruction of His children here on earth.
So incredibly great. Pastor Jeff, you give me the motivation to learn even MORE about the history of my church, and it increases my love and passion towards it as I learn new things as well. Thank you! :)
My wife and I bought a home here in Provo and I'm really hoping that our paths cross sometime pastor Jeff. I'd love to meet you and give you my most sincere welcome to Utah. I'm glad you're here and I really hope your family is finding joy and love here in our community. We love you and hope you continue to bring the love and bridge building to our two faiths. I think it's simply beautiful what you're doing for cultural differences right now. SO NEEDED especially now in this evil world we live.
My great, great grandpa supposedly took part in the Mountain Meadows Massacre and as a result, it is said that he took his own life afterwards. It was such a tragic episode in history.
I’ve been to that chapel in Pine Valley and I am a descendant of the Burgess’s who lived there. I have looked over the Mountain Meadows, but at the time I don’t believe there was more than an historical marker. A tragedy with several nuances. And I have been in the St George temple, but many years ago. And I have been at Brigham Young’s grave. You were very kind in this podcast. Thank you. Some details we may never know until judgement day.
Hey cousin. 😊
I did the survey work for the new monument for mountain meadows. I knew the Burgess. With the Grays I’ve moved cattle with them.
Great video. You handled both sides of good and bad parts of history even handedly and fair in this video. Your fairness is what draws all of us LDS folks to your stories… We love how you’re exploring our beliefs and culture so lovingly. That is so rare anywhere..
You’re a great man AND a noble servant of the Lord… You have a lot of Latter-day Saints praying for you.
I'm a life long LDS myself, but I have no ancestral connection to the early Saints or the USA. I am Canadian, my parents are both converts and neither one from the USA. I can understand how in Utah there is a deep emotional cultural connection to the pioneers and early America, but that is something specific to the LDS of that area. Outside of that area you'll sometimes here members refer to 'Utah Mormons' like they are a different breed, and in some minor ways they are. It is a very different experience to grow up in a place where the social expectations trend toward living as a faithful Mormon compared to growing up where you tend to be mocked, shunned or rejected by most all your peers if you hold to the standards the church teaches. Keep in mind that the Utah subculture is a subculture within the church as well.
I agree. I’m also Canadian (4th generation), with ancestors from the early days of the church - 3rd great grandfather was a friend and bodyguard to Joseph Smith. But yes, being LDS in an area where the church is smaller in numbers is much different than Utah. But my kids are great missionaries to their friends who admire their standards and goodness.
In the Television series and Book "Under the Banner of Heaven", they described Utah Mormons as being over zealous with their religion, having fundamental values like strict gender roles, and being obsessed with the idea they are related to early pioneers. The Idaho Mormons were much more modern and less caught up with the social hierarchy of being related to pioneers. Instead, they focused on the true values of the LDS faith and believed women and men were equal. You should definitely check it out.
@@lllkajd827hard pass. Watched the first episode and felt the darkest spirit. Not gonna allow that garbage into my life.
@@mycatwouldJesus Christ said that he would divide people and families. Matthew 10:34-37; Luke 12:51-53; The truth naturally divides people. To be worthy of Jesus and eternal life, one must side with God's truth even if it divides his own family.
Jeff's One Minute review of the Mountain Meadows Massacre was pretty good. A complete review requires severed days of history, politics and Indian relations ... as well as an ethical and legal debate about the prudence of self defense Military Pre-emptive Strikes.
Hello.
I've been to Pine Valley a few times. The last time I went, we went up above the ceiling in the Chapel there. You didn't show it in the video, so I don't know if you saw it or not, but it was made from a ship. I hope you were able to go up there and check it out. It was SO fascinating. The story behind it as well.
From the beginning of the Bible God spoke to prophets to have them guide His people. If, as it reads in Hebrews 13: 8 that Jesus is the same, yesterday, and to day and tomorrow, why wouldn't He have prophets to receive information for our times, just as He did in the past?
I am always fascinated by your videos. Intrigued by what is going on. Would love to know how your family is adjusting.
I did the open house tour back in October. It’s absolutely stunning. I went with a group where is in her 80’s and was baptized in the St. George temple when she was 8. One of the highlights was going from the baptism room that was so colorful,ornate and grand to the assembly hall that was pure white and wood and that was it. Since I have not been to the Kirkland temple which also has the assembly hall and Joseph Smith was there, this room was exceptionally humbling to see. Brigham Young’s and Jacob Hamblin homes are a must see when in St. George.
I’m a Oneness Pentecostal Youth Pastor who has had a lot of conversations with LDS missionaries. Really enjoy your content! Love how you are willing to have real conversations with people and dehumanize people because they hold different theological positions.
From 2 weeks to 2 days , that is awesome , you are awesome. And special , I’m lds ,love your videos , I’m in a different area but love Utahn’s, thank you for sharing the history
I thought you handled the Mt. Meadow Massacre very kindly! It’s a bad stain and even members don’t know much about it, and what happened. Some feel the church tries to cover it up, or down play what really happened. So, I thank you, were very thoughtful and kind.
I honestly got kind of nervous, when he talked about it because so many Protestants lie about it and blame the entire church and Brigham Young.
I've been a member my entire life and have never heard of this massacre but I'm from Georgia so maybe that's why.
It’s not something the church leaders talk much about. Partly because it was so long ago, and it’s a very nuanced topic, but they don’t “hide” it. You can read all about it in the “Saints” book and other places published on the church’s own website.
There’s a lot more that needs to be said to give context to the MMM. It wasn’t just about people coming through “Latter-Day Saint Territory “. It goes back to the Missouri days of persecution,eviction, and even extermination. Then the interaction of some of the travelers with the Utahns is an important part of the story that helps establish context. It is definitely a different and tragic historical event. My parents made a stop there whenever we would go to the Veyo pool.
@@aalebaronI'm glad that we can agree that extermination orders are horrible and unacceptable. It is a shame that Brigham issued an extermination order of the Timpanogos people after evicting them from their land.
Lol I work downtown at the temple and I'm in your video. Yay!
This made me homesick! You drove right past my childhood home in Diamond valley! ❤
Just watched the video of 3 days ago. I know as non-LDS christians we/I sometimes used the Mountain Meadows Massacre to discredit the LDS faith as a whole. It would be important to remember that similar killings took place between various denominations competing, and especially between Anglican and non-Anglican christians.
St George is like the LDS Florida - so many people retire there. Pretty place
Thanks pastor Jeff for a great video 😊. My suggestion for somewhere to visit would be on the other side of southern Utah about two hours away from Moab UT there are some places I would recommend first would be walking around the temple grounds of the Monticello temple which could be a great way to talk about Gordon B Hinckleys smaller and remote temples that he made as well as the highlight of the trip would be going to a small city called Bluff UT and learning about the hole in the rock pioneers at the fort bluff learning area it is free and such a beautiful part of LDS pioneers history thanks as always also in a town called Blanding UT there are some really nice wards and members there as well who are descended from those pioneers
Let Zion in her beauty rise, where Jesus is King of kings and Lord of lords.
Another great video! Thanks. I love the background music in all your videos. Do you compose, perform, and record the music?
I was thinking the same thing
Before the ending I was thinking.....
Okay, Jeff, now down the road...... go look at what the church of Jesus Christ is like outside the USA and the global reach is. It's remarkable
Pastor Jeff, can you make a video visiting the lights at temple square? They put so many lights up.
LOVED loved Brian's testimony about God's care and guidance in our location! An actual answer to prayer thank you so much
My church building in Ogden is historic. It was renovated several years ago, but it still holds some areas that othwr buildings do not have, in my experience. A lot of Pioneer culture here. I'd be happy to help with a tour.
I really love it knowing that you have a friend , a good friend who is willing and interested to talk about God.
I want to have a friend like that who, when we are together, we are more about talking Christ, search about Chris do good and serve other people.
FYI, the same ship designer who designed the Tabernacle also designed the Pine Valley Chapel.
Mountain Meadows massacre. I’ve visited the site. What a tragedy. I’m glad the church finally acknowledged it.
Very well done. Sensitive topics related to mountain meadow, Brigham etc. You handled it very well.
12:00 Jeff, we also don’t believe the prophetic voice is specific to one Church. There are many prophets (lower case p), and I can show you that in the D&C. But we believe that there is one Prophet (President Nelson currently) who holds all the keys for Christ’s organization perform the work needed to prepare the world for the Fire to come, spoken of in Malachi 4. THAT is why Moroni came to Joseph Smith. You have to realize that we know you are a part of Christ’s Church too, and can be inspired to do many prophetic things as are many people of all religions (not even only Christian ones). It will help for you to do a deep dive with another priesthood holder to tell you about priesthood keys. And honestly, it would be best if you spoke with Don Bradley or even ward radio, (though they can be pretty crass sometimes) or someone like that about it because they have the best scholarship.
As a clarification, it wasn't a territory when we moved here. We were specifically trying to settle outside the US. We were leaning towards TX until it got annexed.
Love your videos Pastor Jeff! You should come up here to Rexburg Idaho. It is 95% LDS and has some nice history as well
95% LDS? dang
First - thank you for such great videos and for your most kind portrayal of who we "saints" are. One idea for a new adventure would be to head to the southeast corner of Utah and look into one of the most daunting pioneering feats ever accomplished - the "Hole in the Rock."
I didn't know about Pine Valley and the wood for the Tabernacle. Very interesting.
Your channel is amazing, I must say I respect a lot of things, one of which being your amazing production quality. Do you have any background in video production? What camera do you use? Thanks - Aaron
Hey, Pastor Jeff! Loving the video!
If you haven't yet, you should check out the stick of Joseph's Christmas special, it was posted at nearly the same time as this video.
At Mountain Meadow Massacre late this summer myself. Did you find a lot a wasps on the path to the main monument? They were so bad! My kids called one bush "massacre wasp bush!"
1st generation pioneer here living in Utah. 5000 miles away from my birthplace
I'm not LdS but am fascinated with Mormon history.
The Book of Mormon is true, and another witness of the same gospel of Jesus Christ as the Bible. Joseph Smith was a true prophet who worshipped Jesus Christ. The church was infiltrated by wicked men. When Joseph Smith was murdered, Brigham Young usurped control of the church and led some of the saints to SLC, Utah (many refused to follow him). Brigham Young introduced many false doctrines into that denomination including polygamy, men becoming Gods, Adam God, blood atonement of men, penal oath temple rituals, a Heavenly Mother, Lucifer being Jesus' brother, incorrect definition of Christ’s church, etc. None of that is in the Book of Mormon or teachings of Joseph Smith, but Brigham Young and the wicked leaders under and after him have pretended that it came from Joseph Smith in order to gain acceptance for their own evil and lustful desires. The LDS church of today is Brigham Young's denomination and is apostate from the teachings of the church under Joseph Smith.
@@joesimpson9230 Brigham didn't take control of the church the Saints picked him after The Lord called him as Prophet. The Lord Jesus Christ controls the church not the Prophets.
@@peeupgaming9976 No. Independent court decision confirmed that Brigham usurped control.
TEMPLE LOT SUIT
"Beyond all cavil, if human testimony is to place any matter for ever at rest, this church was one in doctrine, government, and purpose from 1830 to June, 1844, when Joseph Smith, its founder, was killed. It had the same federal head, governing bodies, and faith. During this period there was matter fundamental, or affecting its oneness. The only authorized and recognized books of doctrine and laws for the government of the church from 1830 to 1846 were the Bible, the Book of Mormon, and the Book of Doctrine and Covenants. The Book of Doctrine and Covenants, which consisted principally of claimed divine revelations to Joseph Smith, was the edition published atKirtland, Ohio, in 1835, and at Nauvoo in 1845....
There can be no question of the fact that Brigham Young's assumed presidency was a bold and bald usurpation.
The Book of Doctrine and Covenants (printed in 1846) page 411, containing a revelation to Joseph Smith, January 19, 1841, gave unto them "my servant Joseph, to be a presiding elder over all my church, to be a translator, a revelator, a seer, and a prophet." ... The book clearly taught that the succession should descend lineally and go to the first-born. Joseph Smith so taught, and, before his taking off, publicly proclaimed his son Joseph, the present head of Complainant Church, his successor, and he was so anointed....
The Book of Mormon itself inveighed against the sin of polygamy.... Conformably to the Book of Mormon, the Book of Doctrine and Covenants expressly declared "that we believe that one man should have but one wife, and one woman but one husband." And this declaration of the church on this subject reappeared in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, editions of 1846 and 1856. Its first appearance as a dogma of the church (the dogma of polygamy) was in the Utah Church in 1852.
Claim is made by the Utah Church that this doctrine is predicated of a revelation made to Joseph Smith in July, 1843. No such revelation was ever made public during the life of Joseph Smith, and under the law of the church it could not become an article of faith and belief until submitted to and adopted by the church. This was never done ....
The Utah Church further departed from the principles and doctrines of the original church by changing in their teaching the first statement in the Article of Faith, which was, "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in his Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost," and in lieu thereof taught the doctrine of "Adam-god worship." ...
It has introduced societies of a secret order, and established secret oaths and covenants, contrary to the book of teachings of the old church. It has changed the duties of the President, and of the Twelve, and established the doctrine to "Obey Counsel," and has changed the order of the "Seventy, or Evangelists." ...
A considerable number of the officers and members of the church at Nauvoo did not ally themselves with any of the factions, and wherever they were they held onto the faith, refused to follow Brigham Young to Utah, and ever repudiated the doctrine of polygamy, which was the great rock of offense on which the church split after the death of Joseph Smith.
In 1852 the scattered fragments of the church, the remnants of those who held to the fortunes of the present Joseph Smith, son of the so-called "Martyr," gathered together sufficiently for a nucleus of organization. They took the name of "The Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints," and avowed their allegiance to the teachings of the ancient church; and their epitome of faith adopted, while containing differences in phraseology, in its essentials is but a reproduction of that of the church as it existed from 1830 to 1844. To-day they are twenty-five thousand strong. [At present, 1911, the membership is about sixty thousand. -- E. A. S.]
It is charged by the Respondents, as an echo of the Utah Church, that Joseph Smith, "the Martyr," secretly taught and practiced polygamy; and the Utah contingent furnishes the evidence, and two of the women, to prove this fact. It perhaps would be uncharitable to say of these women that they have borne false testimony as to their connection with Joseph Smith; but, in view of all the evidence and circumstances surrounding the alleged intercourse, it is difficult to escape the conclusion that at most they were but sports in "nest hiding."
In view of the contention of the Salt Lake party, that polygamy obtained at Nauvoo as early as 1841, it must be a little embarrassing to President Woodruff of that organization when he is confronted, as he was in the evidence in this case, with a published card in the church organ at Nauvoo in October, 1843, certifying that he knew of no other rule or system of marriage than the one published in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and that the "secret wife system," charged against the church, was a creature of invention by one Doctor Bennett, and that they knew of no such society. That certificate was signed by the leading members of the church, including John Taylor the former President of the Utah Church. And a similar certificate was published by the Ladies' Relief Society of the same place, signed by Emma Smith, the wife of Joseph Smith, and Phoebe Woodruff, wife of the present President Woodruff.
No such marriage ever occurred under the rules of the church, and no offspring came from the imputed illicit intercourse, although Joseph Smith was in the full vigor of young manhood, and his wife Emma, was giving birth to healthy children in regular order, and was enciente at the time of Joseph's death.But if it were conceded that Joseph Smith, and Hyrum, his brother, did secretly practice concubinage, is the church to be charged with those liaisons, and the doctrine of polygamy to be predicated thereon of the church? If so, I suspect the doctrine of polygamy might be imputed to many of the Gentile churches. Certainly it was never promulgated, taught, nor recognized, as a doctrine of the church prior to the assumption of Brigham Young. -- Decision of Judge Philips in Temple Lot Case, pp. 20-26."
@peeupgaming9976 Which Jesus Christ?
The LDS Christ, who is a created being the brother of Satan, or the biblical Christ who is eternal and has always existed?
@peeupgaming9976 That is true. Several men wanted to lead the church after the death of Joseph Smith. Even Sydney Rigdon (who had been a protestant pastor before his conversion) lobbied to lead the church. They gave him and others an opportunity to speak to a gathering of the saints, but everyone agreed that the prophetic mantel was on Brigham Young. People experienced miraculous manifestations convincing them that it was Brigham Young, which was Joseph's rightful successor.
When the 12 apostles gathered to figure out how to proceed, they reported that everyone heard a voice from heaven choosing Brigham Young as the successor of Joseph Smith.
OK, Pastor Jeff, what was up with the "scary" music cue when you recounted the visit of the founding fathers? 😄
I didn't find it scary at all. It's the same intro music he uses on all of his videos...
Please study the talk given by President Dallin H. Oaks, "Kingdoms of Glory" from the October 2023 General Conference and share your thoughts and feelings. Best regards.
Enjoyed this. I will also say your handling of the Mountain Meadows massacre was tasteful. For more context on that, Brigham Young as a Statesman, and LDS culture at the time, May I suggest you look into the Utah War?
Oh Paster Jeff. I'm so glad you got to come to STG! Thats where I'm from, and even though I've taken a step away from the LDS church, these landmarks (and complicated history) are part of me.
Praying for you to find a good friend who shares a love of Jesus.
Jesus Christ said, Follow me. Jesus is the good Shepherd. Jesus will never let you down.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me.
And I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish neither shall any man pluck them out of my Father's hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I live near St. George if you are still in the area, let's meet up!
Great video Jeff! Love your content.
Cove Fort. As you are checking out Utah and traverse I-15 near Fillmore and Beaver check out this cool fort. I’ve driven past it a million times and only recently stopped and checked it out. Missionaries give you a ton of info. I just love history. (I’ve never been LDS). I enjoy your channel.
I would be interested in seeing you interact with some of the pastors in the area with Mormon-Christian ministries.
On it!
We also believe in being active in whatever political sphere to help uphold Gods laws. We also are a global church (not as big as mainstream, but still global). We are also committed to bring people to Christ
I’m glad you finally posted about the mountain meadows massacre. What an awful time in our history. Thanks for your respectful coverage. I loved that chapel of pine valley. I’ve never heard of it. I love the St. George Temple. I want to go there.
Hello Jeff! The story of the Founding Fathers appearing in the SG Temple musta been quite a shocker for ya, amirite? It's a wonderful, true event.
It was NOT a true event.
@Compulsive-Elk7103 how do you know? Are you claiming that the Holy Spirit revealed this to you? Because I've been there in that very room where it is claimed they appeared and I received a clear and overwhelming confirmation from God through His spirit that it did indeed happen. So what can you say to that? If you tell me that you did received a like witness to the contrary, then one of us is wrong. I declare in the name of Jesus Christ that my word is true, and I have received it through the Holy Ghost. I am accountable to God for my witness. So be it.
We agree that God the Father teaches us a lot about what we need to know about his character through his Son Jesus Christ, but we Latter-day Saints believe there's more, hence God's desire to continue teaching His children through modern revelation. There's always more to learn. :)
I've not been in Utah as an adult other than the SLC airport. I may just have to find a time to get it there.
As far as that quote from Hebrews that we no longer need the prophets because we have Christ’s words today. What then do we make of the rest of the New Testament, and the teachings of the apostles, including the Revelation of John? Should we dismiss anything written after Christ’s assention? Apostles and prophets speak the words of Christ (whether by my voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same). This was true for Peter, Paul, John, James, etc in the days of the ancient church, just as it is in our day.
Some things we can be certain about. Christ never required 10% of anyone's income, a worthiness interview, and a temple recommend.
Christ never promised his followers a harem of women on their own planet.
Christ said that he would divide people and families. The truth naturally divides people. To be worthy of Jesus and eternal life, one must side with God's truth even if it divides his own family.
You can trust Jesus.
Go to a Pioneer Day picnic activity in July
Another very well put together video. Pastor Jeff, you should branch out to cover other topics as well.
Your Awesome my friend. You truly act Christ-like. Thank you
Greetings Pastor Jeff, I appreciate your videos that you in such a constructive manner. If I may contextualize The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The entire point of the church is to prepare the people for the final coming of the Lord, Jesus Christ to the earth and to establish his Zion just as Enoch did anciently.
My fourth great-grandfather, John Portineus Greene (City Marshall of Nauvoo, IL), and his son (my third great-grandfather) Evan Melbourne Greene (personal secretary to Joseph Smith and his uncle Brigham Young) assisted in this effort. Once you finish the Book of Mormon, I encourage you to study the Doctrine and Covenants which will prove this context.
Jesus as King in Israel, in the middle east, right? That's what it says in Acts 1:6, and what the Bible teaches throughout the OT and NT, and that is what the Jews have been told their whole lives and us non-Jews are grafted in to their rootstock. No tree branch will survive if you cut off the rootstock, as Paul explains in Romans.
Pastor Jeff and Brian have the same hair cut 😊
"Faith in every footstep". "Those of the last wagon". Faith, consecration, sacrifice. The stories of the Mormon pioneers. French Huguenots. Early LDS settlements in Utah and other neighboring states. The calling of early missionaries who made great sacrifices to heed the call of the Lord, in "the spirit of Box B", to gather the elect from the nations of the world. Sacrifices to build temples. Temples are all about families. God bless you and your family!
I just learned this recently from Mark 3:34, 35. And Jesus replies:"Whoever does the will of God, he is My brother and sister and mother." God's family is spiritual, not physical.
Ephesians 4 talks about how Christ formed his Church trough out the first Prophet Peter for the redemption and perfection of the saints , unfortunately all got killed until the restoration of all things
Our goal is just like the Evangelicals we want to go all over the world, but we keep the culture. If you look at the new temple in Thailand this built in the Asian architecture of the area. Even from state to state temples are designed differently for the geological and is the culture of the state. In the stain glass windows of the Pocatello, Idaho Temple It has depictions of the desert flower that grows there. Also at the Rome, Italy Temple, they have two olive trees in front of the temple.
Christian missionaries are much better at keeping local culture since the early days. I have friends teaching literacy of local languages, and having those students writing original stories and church hymns, too. What really matters, though, in all of this, is the condition of one's heart, not the state of the building or, in some cases, no building at all.
My grandchildren are the tenth generation in the Church!
I think before you go talking about the new meadows massacre, you need to fully explain it, a lot of the men in the company were lied to and were given orders to attack, it was the head of the militia, there leader who was responsible he even had the Indians attacking the traveling party , before the attack happened they already had met with church leaders and brother Brigham , and he said to leave them alone but they didn't and then sadly the attack happened and brighams letter arrived two days after, so before you go touching sore subjects, you need to do full explaining , and to do full study , you made it sound as if a lot of the saints back then was bad , which is a lie, sorry for having it be so long.
The Prophet Brigham Young was a statesman because he was the governor of the Utah Territory.
Wow it's not Sunday. This is weird. I'm used to you uploading on Sundays.
There is a culture you don’t know about as well. I am a latter day Saint. I love the church “ outside of Utah”
Great video! Just wanted to point out that in Hebrews 1:1-2 Paul says ‘Prophets spoke to us before and Jesus spoke to us most recently.’ Not ‘there will be no prophets after Jesus’. Kinda sounded like you were using the verses to make a point that the verses don’t make. But hey, we LDS guys do that too sometimes :)
A question that comes to me after hearing that America is very central to LDS. How do they view the Jews and how we believe we are grafted in and how Jesus will be reigning form Jerusalem in the later days for 1000 years? a genuine question, not sure if you may have covered this before if so can you tell me where. Thank you 😊
And to be perfectly honest, I never knew about the Mountain Meadows. I don't know why as a church member I never knew.
It is a dark chapter in our history that has been explored but not discussed frequently. A friend of mine wrote a small book on the subject as part of his Bachelor's degree from BYU-I.
@@jessekoeven3757 thanks for telling me. None of my family ever told me. I'm just glad it's not in my family's history. I'm glad that my Pioneer Ancestors were not part of it.
@@peeupgaming9976 the church actually had an article about it on Liahona & ensign that I've read years ago. It's a sad and tragic part of our history, it's important to also read in the context of what's happening in Utah at that time.
Even less well known is the history of the Timpanogos tribe, the significance of Mount Timpanogos and the relationship with Brigham Young and the church. Might be if interest to you.
The church downplays it's less than stellar history. Just like polygamy. You can find it on the church's website but you have to know to look specifically.
The reason that the early members went out West, was so that they could be outside of the US which was then Mexican territory and freely practice polygamy.
Many members will tell you that it was because they were being driven out of states like New york, Missouri, Ohio, Illinois and while thats true, it's only half the truth.
The real reason was so that they could be out from under the states jurisdiction and now they could practice polygamy freely.
I don't know how to DM you, so I hope you see this comment. I love this channel, and I think you would enjoy exploring the Hole in the Rock Expedition. It was a mission directed by church leaders, and involved pioneers forging a trail into the southeastern corner of Utah. It's an actual landmark as well. Look it up -- I think you'll find it fascinating 😊
I appreciate how Pastor Jeff presented the good and the bad from LDS history in more of an observer format.
Also, love this quote from Pastor Jeff which resonates: "I've been seeing time and time again . . . how much the American culture, the American narrative, you might even say, the American Zeitgeist, is interwoven into Latter-Day Saint thinking and doctrine."
(btw - the production quality of the video and background music was very good)
Good video.
I really hope I run into you at a grocery store or community event somewhere! You are totally a celebrity now here in Utah! I'd probably ask for a selfie with you 😂
Jeff I hope you know how high the Mormons are right?
Lol - if you moved somewhere Provo to Layton, you really did move RIGHT into the thick of things. Welcome!
Brian Hurd?! Awesome person and agent! 😊
Have you seen the Jacob Hamblin home near St. George?
I love the fact that this Christian pastor does not judge the Saints he only seeks to understand our religious beliefs.
@LACANCIONMAS Thanks for underestanding!
@HelloSaints you're you're welcome my dear brother!
Considering non-LDS Christians and a relationship to titles like prophet, pioneer, and statesman, I think it would be worthwhile to look to times in Christian history that mirror what Briham Young led the church through. Though you don't revere them in the same way, people like Martin Luthor who changed the practice of Christianity for many, or John Wycliff who brought the scripture to the people by translating it from Latin. Pioneer can be those Pilgrims and others who sought new land to escape religious oppression, and Statesman for those who sought to ensure that the government and politics of these new settlements were open to and matched their beliefs
The wagon train of people who met their deaths at Mountain Meadows were from Missouri. Those in the party made disparaging remarks about Joseph Smith, taunting that they were part of the mob that murdered him. Also they took pot shots at cattle and farms provoking bad feelings. There is fault on both sides for sure.
It's a little difficult to watch your videos and understand your opinions when your beliefs are tied to your vocation. Seems you would be reticent to change your beliefs because that means you would have to change vocations.
We need a video just focused on Mountain Meadows. It is a fascinating story.
ua-cam.com/video/1NufxIBNdDo/v-deo.html
Can you check out Idaho Falls, and then Rexburg Idaho where BYU-Idaho is? It was changed from a junior college called Ricks College in 2000. I am a descendant of Thomas Edwin Ricks who founded it. You can make these a stop on the way to Yellowstone.
I am also a southern Utah native with rich pioneer heritage.