6061, 6063, 7071, and 7075 are describing what the alloy of the aluminum is. For example, by weight %: 7075 - 5.6-6.1% zinc, 2.1-2.5% magnesium, 1.2-1.6% copper, balance aluminum 6063 - Silicon minimum 0.2%, max 0.6%, Iron no min, max 0.35%, Copper no min, max 0.10%, Manganese no min, max 0.10%, Magnesium min 0.45%, max 0.9%, Chromium no min, max 0.10%, Zinc no min, max 0.10%, Titanium no min, max 0.10%, Other elements no more than 0.05% each, 0.15% total, balance aluminum -O, -T4, -T6 are describing the temper of the aluminum. All of the alloys mentioned above have heat treat processes that can increase both the Young's Modulus and Ultimate Strength of the material dramatically. -O is the annealed state. -T6 is a tempering and artificial aging process. To take an educated guess at the alloy and temper of the material you could take a look at the percent elongation of the section that broke. For further analysis figure out the stress that the carabiner broke at (stress = load/ c.s. area) and compare it to the ultimate strength of the alloy and temper you suspect. For CYA purposes, this would all still be educated guessing, but might be interesting to look into. Time allowing of course.
@@HowNOT2 At first-thank you for your testing, its makes me more confindet whe im climbing. I have to say one thing, which drives the little sheldon in me crazy- molecule are gases or liquids like O2 oder H2O, this means that 2 or more atomes are connected and thats the only way they exits in nature( except form tec.-application) metals on the other side are only made out of atoms! A test idea which im realy interested in is: How strong are knots in a passive safety application. Im from germany and i climb in the so called "sachsische schweiz" . Instead of classic nuts or cams, we only use doubled overhand, figure eight or other knots as "safty devices" (in case of cracks at least). Because of the super soft sandstone thats the only way allowed, besides UFOs and slings/webing. Could you test this this out for us?😁
@@MKaden-cv3ts I don't really understand your point with molecules, but you could refresh your knowledge on types of intramolecular forces (those that hold atoms together in a molecule, as opposed to intermolecular, which act between those molecules) . Intramolec. Forces are Ionic, covalent and metallic bonds. And then see if studying metallic bonds satysfies your curiosity.
Young's modulus does not increase during any heat treatment process. If a change is measured, the quantity is negligible. Other than that, the info in this comment seems fine.
@@matijaderetic3565 My Point is covalent bonds dont exisit in metals, therefore there are no moleculs in the metal matrix, as he said in 2:05. (besides the case of corrosion-reaction, in wich it is actually possible that single moleculs can exit in cracks at the surface of materials such as metals or plastics. This is by the way the reason for the "delamination-like" corrosion of steel. and yes i know metals cant delaminate) If you want to know more about just hock me up, i can recommend you some titles, mostly in german but i can research for english articels for you. :)
“Looks like they pulled one of the children off the assembly line to make it look bigger than it actually is” 😂😂😂 I’m dead, you made me cough up my bagel 😂
At face value rating 50% higher than the stamped rating seems like a good thing, but it really shows how much of a difference in quality control there is. I would wage that if these go really high in quality randomly they could also go the opposite direction too.
Well, if you're engineering for a safety factor of 2, there's nothing wrong with that. Unless you want a chair that'll explode once you reach 1lb over the "rated" load.
Love this video. You know what's really terrifying to think about? That Q U A L I T Y C O N T R O L! 😱 How many of these knockoff biners we think make it out of the factory that are missing components (pins in the gate), warped or badly formed shape, or shitty forging (voids in the metal)? 🙃 Probably a lot...
Great video... What about testing plastic carabiners speciali those selled in army or military surplus. Wondering why plastic ? Well for hammok camping are useful, specially if rain falls you want to have the less metal as posible to prevent lighting bolt attraction.
They fit light utility uses and I would never use them on anything dangerous. I, personally, do not trust the material ratings. There is no way an individual can certify that the proper tempering to T7 specification has been done therefore guarding yourself from premature fatigue issues after even a few stressing utility uses. So never trust you safety or the safety of others with them. I've worked around some contractors at job sights using them on their personal gear and scaffolding! So they do infiltrate more then just the keychain market at times!
I’ve been testing some of the cheap static lines for years. The issues I’m seeing is that the sheaths tend to bunch up some and the ropes don’t hold their shape. I’ve still got a 7mm set up I have been rappelling down an 80 foot cliff for several years now.
or they did some quick math and never even tested the carabiners. math said around 16 so they felt safe claiming 12 without any testing. sketchy no matter how they chose the number
It is not uncommon to just rate stuff at some "normal" rating. If you find find to manufacturers with the exact same rating this is what happened 99% of the time
Theo one I bought says they've rated them around 15 to 19kn. So to be safe they rate it under. For sure they say it's not meant for climbing but it should be unmissable in the title or 1st image. I bought it for camping, as I I'm professionally trained for work at height.
Yes please test the Amazon rope that they keep sending me emails to buy lol...I did end up buying a 10.5mm static from Amazon for 15$...The price was just too good to at least buy and use for yard work if I needed it...I found out why it was 15$...The rope length was 35 feet, not 35 meters. It smelled like cancer. And they sheath is going to pull off of it the second you would try to use something like an ascender on it lol...A PSA style video on this junk would be great
@@AstronomyWales Yeah I watched the one where he did the ones that come with the cheap carabiners on the end of the rope..This one I'm talking looks just like a climbing rope, says it's CHNA certified (not even sure if that's a real thing) and is wrapped with a nice velcro enclosure with the rope diameter and a person climbing painted on it..So it would be shitty if it didn't hold up trying to be a climbing rope...never-ending it being static to begin with...I'm sure it's fine to have and only use to rappel out of a window in a fire emergency, but that's about all the higher I would trust it
@@Rokmononov how is that a risk? People get so caught up with “everything needs to be 21kn or it’s going to break blah blah blah” I’m from the Fire Dept world where everything is rated to 40kn and we say the same thing about THAT. “If it’s not rated to 40…”, meanwhile that’s 3x the forces you could ever see on a system shock loaded with a 600lb load, even accounting for rope strength loss with knots. All that to say, use what’s rated highly enough. 2500lbs is 5x higher than any max force your hammock is going to see, and if you think you’d break a carabiner using your hammock you should probably get on a major diet ASAP.
Great video, I actually use these generic 12kN carabiners on my 3 hammocks and I really like them in that role. Not a climbing gear by any means, but if you get them at a correspondingly low price, they can be really useful in some applications.
IMO, looking real and costing pretty much the same as the Favofit or Xinda UIAA rated 22kN biners is where they fail the hardest. If they were half the price and visibly different enough that they'd never accidentally end up on my gear loops, I'd actually want a dozen or so for non-life-supporting (or at least never-shock-loaded, like the hammock) applications. At the usual prices, though, there's no reason not to go with an off-brand-but-rated biner twice as strong, so at least I don't have to worry that I'll suddenly notice "12kN" attached to a prusik I'm using to back up a sketchy rappel.
I often use climbing carabiners to secure water bottles and other gear. Makes a lot of sense to instead buy cheap ones at a third the price for these applications. I don’t fault them for selling these if they’re labeled as not for climbing; any experienced climber wouldn’t get them mixed up. If you aren’t experienced or trained you probably shouldn’t be rigging your own ropes.
You would be surprised how easy it can be to get them mixed up. I had some like this from a long time ago that we're not climbing rated, matte black, and they could get mixed up with the loads of climbing gear in my basement. If you accidentally grab the wrong one as you are packing for a trip, it could be deadly. I'm throwing away any that I find. Anything that needs a carabiner deserves full strength if you climb or rig anything
The way I see it I would just use proper climbing ones to carry your bottles or what ever as you can use it for climbing if you need it or a back up. Just my thought anyway.
Until someone buys their first harness, biner and atc and heads to their gym. Not everyone who climbs is experienced, and not everyone who is inexperienced find the right information sources. Its fine if they are 17kn, but they should still be embossed with not for climbing, and have absolutely no hint in their advertising that they can be used that way.
@@stephenchurch1784 It's never just one carabiner. Especially when you can use more of them in more places that are not safety critical you're more likely to get more increasing overal cost. And it's even cheaper not to climb. But to each their own.
I don't know what brand, but I've bought a variety of similar carabiners from Amazon and I've never done any climbing or had any desire whatsoever to do any climbing. I've been quite pleased with them. You're definitely right about anyone misrepresenting them for being for climbing, but there is definitely a market for non-climbing carabiners.
I like the Metolius Nano for non-climbing carabiners. I know that no matter what I am using it for, keychain, hammock, etc, it will be plenty strong enough, and it is built to the standard of safety and reliability it claims to be given the reputable manufacturer, rating, and seller. Once you include amazon's fulfillment and shipping costs, it isn't all that different from buying real ones from REI, and the peace of mind is worth the 2 dollars.
I think something that's worth considering is: These devices are great for non-climbers, non-critical safety situations. Hanging a hammock? Go for it. Suspending your food bag up in a tree? Definitely. Even using it as an assisted lower for something like a canoe down a steep slope. However, as a climber, I would never get these devices for fear they might mix into my main gear. Even though I'd (probably) spot the non-climbing ones and avoid their use, one of the people I bring out with me might grab one from my kit without realizing. Instead, for all of my camping stuff, I simply retire older carabiners for that (which comes with the added benefit that I can more likely use the gear I have on me during camping for more critical applications).
If it comes from Amazon I aint trusting my life to it. Even as a cheap university student deep in debt I'd prefer to keep my limbs and spine intact for a couple dollars more.
The one point that was kind of glossed over is the importance of good quality control. Everything from tracking manufacturing defects, to sampling plans, to tracking reports of defects, to issuing recalls are critical to ensure a product is safe and effective. Yes, these specific crabs performed above their rating, but how likely would they spot a defective product during production? What is the probability of one of these carabiners having a critical defect? Is there a rate of unacceptable product leaving the facility before they stop production or issue a recall? Or would they just change the branding and keep pushing out product? For example, the one crab pulled it's wire gate straight. This indicated the failure is due to the crack propagating from the wire attachment hole and not where we typically see it, an indication of localized stress concentration in an unusual spot. This shows there's likely insufficient manufacturing controls. The other thing that affects price is design engineering time. Buying these essentially rewards the copycats, and punishes the inventors stifling innovation.
@@jasonelford4474 no, a small wire nuts break at say 10kn so this is stronger in theory and sounds tempting at first, but you'd want to throw them out after any falls because some metals such as aluminium are very prone to fatigue if you get loading anywhere near their expected failure load. To be certified you need a D shaped biner to 20kn or better - and they picked that number for a reason!
I use these. But not for climbing. I use them to hang tools or transport my backpack from one height to another at work. And they work. For everything else I would only use real climbing carabiners.
The simple reason that these break at a lower stress is because of the manufacturing process. A simple formula relating to Pi and Young’s Modulus shows how the Yield stress of a material is proportional to the diameter (C) of any external defects or 2x this length (2C) for internal inclusions. Therefore during a cheaper manufacturing process the inclusions within the metal will have a larger diameter (due to factors such as turbulence in pouring molten metal, type of cast used, solidification time/pattern, use of a riser, etc etc). This consequently reduces the yield stress of the metal and therefore it breaks more easily. That is why metals with identical reference codes can act differently to one another once processed.
I use these! They're dirt cheap compared to actual climbing carabiners, and a hella much stronger than clips, keychains etc. Super useful for clipping stuff to yourself, why sacrifice a €6 climbing carabiner to clip on my chalk bag, when a €1 or €2 carabiner would do? Why don't I use a simple clip? Cause they always break on me. I also use a couple of these with a couple of unrated ultra cheap daisy chain slings to set up a hammock when camping. Super useful stuff, dirt cheap, why dis them?
I don’t get why these are sketchy? They state the rate load 12kN, the break test confirms it exceeds that. They state specifically they are not for climbing. There are many uses for these for non-climbing, for example I use them for spearfishing float lines. They work great. Great video, just not sure why it was so negative towards these.
To many idiots in the world today. Love these for holding equipment and keys. Since I do rescue these are for holding equipment only. But still like to see the destructive testing as I have made equipment in the past and only recently found that CMI will due this for a small fee.
I think calling them “carry biners” would be a good thing. It differentiates them from a real carabiner. Carrying stuff is about all I’d use one for🤷🏻.
I do training on gymnastic rings indoors when weather are extreeme outside. So my rings are attached to triangle climbing carabines that rated 45kn, use them becauce need flat space to attach ring belts. O.k. but thing is I want to say is that those carabines are attachet to concrete sealing with 12mm anchors, that rated only to hold 100kg, and I think it is horizontally, mine are vertically. So in short I'm hangind on 2x 100kg rated anchors with my head down and doing all crazzy stuf with rings already 2 years with no problem at all, and don't think it ever will come off. My weight is 85kg-90kg. So yeah 2400kg is enough even for grown gorilla male doing aeiral yoga, dude! Even car weight of volkswagen golf 2015 is 3126 lbs it is 1417.93 kilograms so car can do yoga too hanging on two amazon carabines :)
Could be a few reasons why...1) The quality of the aluminum they get (there are companies claiming certain metal grades but are not). 2) skipping the heat treatment process and just using the base material. 3) What type of process used to make them. I guessing they are not hot forged, or stamped or milled out of one block of aluminum (which each process can give a metal certain characteristics)...My guess is they either use cast aluminum to make them (one of the cheapest, quickest and potentially weakest processes to use because it's easy to get air pockets in the metal and make it brittle. Companies use this process because you don't need metal bending equipment or metal milling equipment. You just make one mold of the shape you want and pour liquid metal into it. So you might get a few that hold 15kN and one that holds 9 kN) Or the wire gate is made from a cheaper metal.
Lack of forging was my thought as well. These are probably machined or cast. I have a bit of trouble believing they would have been as strong as they are if cast, but with die casting and post heat treatment perhaps.
If a worst case lead fall is around 4kN, is there a meaningful difference between an 18kN carabiner and a 21kN one? Or is the concern more about durability and that the cheaper ones may not stand up as well after abuse?
This was very entertaining Ryan. Never would I ever use an amazon product for life safety, but I appreciate this video. There are so many new climbers/slackers who may not know that these are not actually safe to use! ps: I really hope you send those back and get your money back.
This is a very good review. And definitely don't use them for climbing. One thing, I'm a 30 year old adult but my hands are very small. From the tip of my middle finger to my wrist is six and a half inches.... For camping I'd like a small size carabineer. A lot of women are also about my size so it could be great for some demographics. Just not if they're climbing.
Are you actually worried about people using them for climbing? Anyone dumb enough to accidentally buy these for climbing probably also uses yellow 'rope' they bought at a hardware store. They aren't watching your channel. They aren't even going to get away with bringing these into an indoor climbing gym.
You'd have to ignore the rating, warnings, pictures, size, and then use it climbing. You do all that it's on you. And you'll be fine anyway, they talk about a bad fall being 4-8kn, this is rated for 12kn and tested for 18kn.
I don't know what I find more upsetting; the fact that this product is being produced to a standard lower than that required by the industry's regulatory bodies, or the fact that it's exceeded it's claimed rating. Unfortunately - through no fault of yours - this video just doesn't show the product in the dim light it warrants. However, just the thought of a counterfeited climbing product sends chills down my spine, and this alone will be enough to ensure all my future climbing purchases come from a reputable source.
Thiiiiis...! Plus the spooky part: the quality! Unfortunately that's super hard to show in a video without buying a bunch of them ((...but wait, if there's a "no questions asked money back guarantee" 🤔)) I'd trust every off-the-shelf Petzl biner in the world to function correctly and break at rating. These things? I wouldn't be shocked if you ordered 100 of them and 5% had functional or material issues because the knock-off factory doesn't care if bad products go to market.
I believe they're rated so low because of lacking QC. Some (batch) of them might barely scratch 12kN, while others are as strong as you found them. The Orange one (just) held 13.8kN. Some people will climb with low quality gear no matter what you tell them. Wether it's just old, heavily used, damaged or faulty from the factory. Other people might just use these for clipping stuff to their Backpacks. I'm actually impressed that they undersell rather than outright lie about their performance. So as long as there's no lie used to sell these, im all live and let live. Or climb and let climb?
This video was super interesting. I am not in favor of purchasing less than reputable gear that you're putting your life on the line for, but I think I'd anything, this shines some light on companies that charge up the wazoo for gear. Also, I would LOVE to see a rope test video, showing the Amazon ropes.
The Amazon ropes are good for hauling. I bought one just for the hell of it and did a handful of short rappels, it did the job but I wouldn't use them as a lifeline at height. Oh! I also bought an Edelweiss Canyon Prime rope from Amazon that is actually legit.
The one thing you got to realize is that lots of people just want a clip for their keys.... Climbing probably isn't where most total carabiners get used believe it or not so it doesn't make sense for them to plaster their page in unnecessary warnings.
I bought some wire gates and auto lockers like those on amazon. I really like them for my Key chain and I like them way better than the silver hardware store carabiners for light loads like gym pulley attachments.
I actually just picked up a bunch of BD miniwires for keychains, bear hangs, hammocks, etc after I found a keychain biner in my climbing bag. I don’t want to chance grabbing the wrong thing by mistake.
Just throwing this out there, but from what I have heard (un substantiated rumors) you should not buy safety gear on amazon. The reason is that amazon frequently uses mixed inventory (commingled inventory) where "identical" products sold by multiple vendors are placed in the same inventory bin. The problem is that each vendor sources the product separately and while one vendor may be selling the genuine item, another vendor may be selling counterfeits. Since they get mixed in the amazon warehouse, it can become possible to receive counterfeit goods from a reputable seller. If you life depends on it, probably don't risk buying it on amazon.
Based on the VERY mixed reviews, even on branded products, from Amazon purchasers, this definitely happens way too much. Buying from Amazon is therefore a bit of pot luck. Not necessarily a big deal, because of the ease of return, but if something you need is mission/safety critical, it's better to buy from more reliable outlets than Amazon.
i get the sentiment but they really are trying way too hard to look like climbing gear. they shouldnt even have a KN rating if theyre not for climbing. imagine buying some of these for hanging on bags and camping purposes and one falling in with your climbing gear. or an inexperienced buddy browsing amazon and just kinda buying things that look like what other climbers are using without asking questions. this could and probably has hurt some people real bad.
thanks for testing these. I have a few of these - i don't climb and would not use them for anything safety critical. I use them for hanging weights from a weight belt for exercising. Good to know their plenty strong for the applications i use them for. They appear good quality and strong for non ciritical applications
Yeah, I don't get it. They tested micro nuts which were rated and failed around 6kn and titled the video "You won't believe how strong micro stoppers are! Climbing nuts tested in real rock" and the conclusion was "would whip" but 12kn carabiners labeled repeatedly "not for climbing" is sketch?
To be fair. Any climber worth their salt, even someone with only a bit experience on climbing indoor/outdoor, should be able to recognize it is a "toy" carabiner, and it's not worth to use that gimmick carabiner for any activity that your life will literally depend on it.
My favorite part of videos about sketchy Amazon products is trying to read the SEO-gibberish-riddled descriptions word for word with a straight face. Project Farm and Donut Media have some gems too.
Love your content. I was a bit disappointed in this vid because I was hoping to see you test the crosloading and open gate strength of these. For me having no idea what those ratings are is the biggest reason not to use them. I have considered paring one of these with a cam that is also only rated for 12 KN but thought better of it when the idea that the strength could drop down to under 7KN if it ends up crosloaded in a fall. I kinda hate to see you buy more of these but I would certainly tune in for those tests.
7 series aluminum has a tighter grain structure and would act similarly to a 6 series t6. Basically they skip the heat treat process most likely for less manufacturing process, but still have the toughness of the 7 series
@@theronwinsby Are they? They clearly say they are not for climbing, They clearly say they are rated for 12 kN. They are perfectly sufficient to hang something off your belt or whatever.
@@jort93z the argument is that they are built exactly like climbing biners, and there's an image of a climber, which could make people think these work for climbing. It says they're not for climbing in like, the smallest print on the page. Also that they give incorrect advice about climbing biners in the instructions
@@katatat2030you’ll never stop companies from making “knockoff” carabiners but Amazon could delist anything w/ deceptive marketing. Unfortunately deceptive marketing is basically part of their business strategy and they’d have to remove a huge % of their listings, so 🤷♂️
Since they look so close to real ones, could they be rebranded QC failed names brand UIAA ones? Aslo i think they are 50% over rating because the QC is off on them so some might be higher and some are lower.
C'mon, be honest though. Have you ever managed to put 12kn on something like that? I have a feeling that even at 7-10kn you'd be totally fine even on a massive shock load.
Thanks for letting us know. I am suing UniJoy for copyright. We filed copyright for our cult in 2001. If we can get them for stealing our logo and name form the Koolaid / Rodent control factory we hire we will cut you in.
Best hypothesis I have: the gate is the weak point of every cheap carabiner. In every test, what seams to break first is wheter the gate hook or the gate itself. I don't think the heat treatment or aluminium quality is the cause here, the way they break (they snap dry) suggest a heat treatment. I'd say the geometry of the gate hook and/or the quality of the steel the gates are made out of could be the cause of the lower rating. I'm curious Ryan, how opening the gates feels compared to real climbing carabiners?
I bought these for general use and ended up using them on the leg straps I make for sailing PFDs (Mustang vests). The Mustang company sells leg straps (~$100) - to keep the inflated vest from just lifting up around your neck in the water. They're attached with only ABS plastic clips - which seem pointlessly weak. The main purpose of leg straps is to keep the life vest in a better position in the rare event you go into the water. These vests have Spectra or metal D-rings for attaching safety lines to (Jack lines) so you don't get washed overboard. My thinking was 1" webbing straps that have a sewn loop (11 bar stitches) on one end, carabinered to the belt webbing of the PFD, then run under the crotch, through the back loop on the PFD, then back under the crotch to carabiner the other waist strap. This side has a double knot loop so it's adjustable. I figured that these 12kN carabiners should be strong enough. Your weight would be distributed if you were lifted straight up by three points of attachment. If you were lifted by the D-rings less than half your weight would be held by the three leg strap attachments. My logic is that if I was in the water in a serious rescue situation I could quickly clip or tie into the D-Rings (not the leg straps) into whatever a helicopter or rescue vessel threw to me and with no possibility of me falling out of the whole harness PFD - quickly pull me to safety and be ready to help someone else. (I've given them to friends - but I wouldn't assume the liability of selling them. ) I really appreciate your video and testing. I guess it's full speed ahead for my straps. (Two of these carabiners cost about $12, the webbing costs about $6-8, it takes only few minutes to sew the single loop - I give them to my sailor friends. Saves them $100, while providing an additional safety margin. ) And if these carabiners in my straps are ever used to lift a sailor's weight it would be one time event. I also use them on my hammocks (200 lbs max dead weight pull so ~900kN. Hammocks are easy. A standard 30 degree hang is your weight on each line. And I follow the hammock safety rule of don't hang higher than you can drop on your butt.
One thing I would add is that many carabiners (even climbing ones) have components that corrode quickly in salt water. There's a lot of info (and debate) on the carabiners used on sea kayaking tow ropes and tethers used in salt water. I don't doubt that some of the SS components (the little spring for an aluminum gate carabiner) will corrode quickly. I bought a little SS folding knife just before a 5 day course last fall and it was starting to rust by the end. It lived in my PFD so got wet during rescues. Many kayak towing systems use climbing rated carabiners despite the fact that the loads are very low. In addition, those with a notch can easily catch on smaller deck lines, which makes them more of a hazard in use. However, as others have said, for many applications something like this would work fine. In others, it would be dangerous. I would also be very interested in seeing the open gate load capacity.
In quality assurance, it is usual to measure repeatability (ie. multiple samples on the same test system/tester), and reproducibility (ie. different batches over long term, different testers/test equipment). This is often done in Tier I automotive industry with 3 different testers and 10 non-destructive testing samples. As you do destructive testing, thid would require 30 test samples. From this, we can calculate the standard deviation statistic, and estimate the statistics for the whole population that was manufactured. For the Amazon specials, they may have a high variability in their manufacturing process, so they derate the rating to allow for this uncontrolled variability.
Don’t understand the market. Climbing carabiners are really not that expensive. What do you need a carabiner between a keychain and a fully rated biner strength for?
@@AR-cy6uj the cheap ones are about 1/3 that prove, so say $10 for rated ones and $3.5 for these. If you can't afford $65 more for 10 rated carabiners ($100 vs $35$, that you trust your life to, you should get into a sport like pushing a wooden hoop down the street with a stick.
6061, 6063, 7071, and 7075 are describing what the alloy of the aluminum is. For example, by weight %:
7075 - 5.6-6.1% zinc, 2.1-2.5% magnesium, 1.2-1.6% copper, balance aluminum
6063 - Silicon minimum 0.2%, max 0.6%, Iron no min, max 0.35%, Copper no min, max 0.10%, Manganese no min, max 0.10%, Magnesium min 0.45%, max 0.9%, Chromium no min, max 0.10%, Zinc no min, max 0.10%, Titanium no min, max 0.10%, Other elements no more than 0.05% each, 0.15% total, balance aluminum
-O, -T4, -T6 are describing the temper of the aluminum. All of the alloys mentioned above have heat treat processes that can increase both the Young's Modulus and Ultimate Strength of the material dramatically. -O is the annealed state. -T6 is a tempering and artificial aging process.
To take an educated guess at the alloy and temper of the material you could take a look at the percent elongation of the section that broke. For further analysis figure out the stress that the carabiner broke at (stress = load/ c.s. area) and compare it to the ultimate strength of the alloy and temper you suspect. For CYA purposes, this would all still be educated guessing, but might be interesting to look into. Time allowing of course.
That's super helpful
@@HowNOT2
At first-thank you for your testing, its makes me more confindet whe im climbing.
I have to say one thing, which drives the little sheldon in me crazy- molecule are gases or liquids like O2 oder H2O, this means that 2 or more atomes are connected and thats the only way they exits in nature( except form tec.-application)
metals on the other side are only made out of atoms!
A test idea which im realy interested in is:
How strong are knots in a passive safety application.
Im from germany and i climb in the so called "sachsische schweiz" . Instead of classic nuts or cams, we only use doubled overhand, figure eight or other knots as "safty devices" (in case of cracks at least).
Because of the super soft sandstone thats the only way allowed, besides UFOs and slings/webing.
Could you test this this out for us?😁
@@MKaden-cv3ts I don't really understand your point with molecules, but you could refresh your knowledge on types of intramolecular forces (those that hold atoms together in a molecule, as opposed to intermolecular, which act between those molecules) . Intramolec. Forces are Ionic, covalent and metallic bonds. And then see if studying metallic bonds satysfies your curiosity.
Young's modulus does not increase during any heat treatment process. If a change is measured, the quantity is negligible. Other than that, the info in this comment seems fine.
@@matijaderetic3565
My Point is covalent bonds dont exisit in metals, therefore there are no moleculs in the metal matrix, as he said in 2:05. (besides the case of corrosion-reaction, in wich it is actually possible that single moleculs can exit in cracks at the surface of materials such as metals or plastics. This is by the way the reason for the "delamination-like" corrosion of steel. and yes i know metals cant delaminate)
If you want to know more about just hock me up, i can recommend you some titles, mostly in german but i can research for english articels for you. :)
“Looks like they pulled one of the children off the assembly line to make it look bigger than it actually is” 😂😂😂 I’m dead, you made me cough up my bagel 😂
At face value rating 50% higher than the stamped rating seems like a good thing, but it really shows how much of a difference in quality control there is. I would wage that if these go really high in quality randomly they could also go the opposite direction too.
They normally should go higher then what they are rated for
Well, if you're engineering for a safety factor of 2, there's nothing wrong with that.
Unless you want a chair that'll explode once you reach 1lb over the "rated" load.
This was definitely an ad for them for me, but I'm using them with 550 cord for tiedowns and ridgelines and stuff like that
Love this video. You know what's really terrifying to think about? That Q U A L I T Y C O N T R O L! 😱
How many of these knockoff biners we think make it out of the factory that are missing components (pins in the gate), warped or badly formed shape, or shitty forging (voids in the metal)? 🙃 Probably a lot...
the only thing anyone really cares about is "where's my stuff?"
And here I was thinking all non climbing carabiners had "not for climbing" printed with big letters on the side...
Well, i got a titanium carabiner. EN and UIAA tested 24KN. Still interested in how it's going to behave in comparison with aluminium brothers
Great video... What about testing plastic carabiners speciali those selled in army or military surplus.
Wondering why plastic ?
Well for hammok camping are useful, specially if rain falls you want to have the less metal as posible to prevent lighting bolt attraction.
They fit light utility uses and I would never use them on anything dangerous. I, personally, do not trust the material ratings. There is no way an individual can certify that the proper tempering to T7 specification has been done therefore guarding yourself from premature fatigue issues after even a few stressing utility uses. So never trust you safety or the safety of others with them.
I've worked around some contractors at job sights using them on their personal gear and scaffolding! So they do infiltrate more then just the keychain market at times!
I like'em for my hammock
I bought a couple for light use and if I needed to bail out a window
I would totally love to see a bunch of Amazon climbing ropes tested.
I’ve been testing some of the cheap static lines for years. The issues I’m seeing is that the sheaths tend to bunch up some and the ropes don’t hold their shape. I’ve still got a 7mm set up I have been rappelling down an 80 foot cliff for several years now.
"Looks like they pulled one of the children off the assembly line to take the photo" LOL savage
😂😂😂
makes me sad... I have small hand, and small.. Ego?
The fact that it doesn't show the rating for loading with the gate open and crossloading tells me enough
They rate them at 12kN because they can't keep a consistent "quality", 12 is probably the minimum tested by them.
or they did some quick math and never even tested the carabiners. math said around 16 so they felt safe claiming 12 without any testing. sketchy no matter how they chose the number
It is not uncommon to just rate stuff at some "normal" rating. If you find find to manufacturers with the exact same rating this is what happened 99% of the time
@@ssu7653 this is the most likely explanation tbh.
by going for 12kN they are not for climbing, making it easier for the manufacturer to blame misuse for any injury.
Theo one I bought says they've rated them around 15 to 19kn. So to be safe they rate it under.
For sure they say it's not meant for climbing but it should be unmissable in the title or 1st image.
I bought it for camping, as I I'm professionally trained for work at height.
Yes please test the Amazon rope that they keep sending me emails to buy lol...I did end up buying a 10.5mm static from Amazon for 15$...The price was just too good to at least buy and use for yard work if I needed it...I found out why it was 15$...The rope length was 35 feet, not 35 meters. It smelled like cancer. And they sheath is going to pull off of it the second you would try to use something like an ascender on it lol...A PSA style video on this junk would be great
BetaClimbers has just done this. Not the break testing but he "reviews" it and breaks down the difference.
@@AstronomyWales Yeah I watched the one where he did the ones that come with the cheap carabiners on the end of the rope..This one I'm talking looks just like a climbing rope, says it's CHNA certified (not even sure if that's a real thing) and is wrapped with a nice velcro enclosure with the rope diameter and a person climbing painted on it..So it would be shitty if it didn't hold up trying to be a climbing rope...never-ending it being static to begin with...I'm sure it's fine to have and only use to rappel out of a window in a fire emergency, but that's about all the higher I would trust it
Please do the cheapest Amazon rope lol
I will say, these are great for hammock use. Light weight, and cheap enough that I don't get upset if I lose one.
@Foxtrot Oscar 17kn of shit is a ton!
Just dont get confused and take one climbing!
@@lhmmhl1 bit they're "Great!"
Yeah these carabiners are just fine for their intended use. Anyone with a brain will know not to use them for climbing.
@@Rokmononov how is that a risk?
People get so caught up with “everything needs to be 21kn or it’s going to break blah blah blah”
I’m from the Fire Dept world where everything is rated to 40kn and we say the same thing about THAT. “If it’s not rated to 40…”, meanwhile that’s 3x the forces you could ever see on a system shock loaded with a 600lb load, even accounting for rope strength loss with knots.
All that to say, use what’s rated highly enough. 2500lbs is 5x higher than any max force your hammock is going to see, and if you think you’d break a carabiner using your hammock you should probably get on a major diet ASAP.
Great video, I actually use these generic 12kN carabiners on my 3 hammocks and I really like them in that role. Not a climbing gear by any means, but if you get them at a correspondingly low price, they can be really useful in some applications.
IMO, looking real and costing pretty much the same as the Favofit or Xinda UIAA rated 22kN biners is where they fail the hardest. If they were half the price and visibly different enough that they'd never accidentally end up on my gear loops, I'd actually want a dozen or so for non-life-supporting (or at least never-shock-loaded, like the hammock) applications. At the usual prices, though, there's no reason not to go with an off-brand-but-rated biner twice as strong, so at least I don't have to worry that I'll suddenly notice "12kN" attached to a prusik I'm using to back up a sketchy rappel.
Appreciate the one sentence horror story you threw in at the end there @@kd5nrh
I often use climbing carabiners to secure water bottles and other gear. Makes a lot of sense to instead buy cheap ones at a third the price for these applications. I don’t fault them for selling these if they’re labeled as not for climbing; any experienced climber wouldn’t get them mixed up. If you aren’t experienced or trained you probably shouldn’t be rigging your own ropes.
You would be surprised how easy it can be to get them mixed up. I had some like this from a long time ago that we're not climbing rated, matte black, and they could get mixed up with the loads of climbing gear in my basement. If you accidentally grab the wrong one as you are packing for a trip, it could be deadly. I'm throwing away any that I find. Anything that needs a carabiner deserves full strength if you climb or rig anything
The way I see it I would just use proper climbing ones to carry your bottles or what ever as you can use it for climbing if you need it or a back up. Just my thought anyway.
Until someone buys their first harness, biner and atc and heads to their gym. Not everyone who climbs is experienced, and not everyone who is inexperienced find the right information sources. Its fine if they are 17kn, but they should still be embossed with not for climbing, and have absolutely no hint in their advertising that they can be used that way.
$12 to ensure that your chances of making a life threatening mistake are zero instead of close to zero seems like a fair trade to me
@@stephenchurch1784 It's never just one carabiner. Especially when you can use more of them in more places that are not safety critical you're more likely to get more increasing overal cost. And it's even cheaper not to climb. But to each their own.
I don't know what brand, but I've bought a variety of similar carabiners from Amazon and I've never done any climbing or had any desire whatsoever to do any climbing. I've been quite pleased with them. You're definitely right about anyone misrepresenting them for being for climbing, but there is definitely a market for non-climbing carabiners.
I like the Metolius Nano for non-climbing carabiners. I know that no matter what I am using it for, keychain, hammock, etc, it will be plenty strong enough, and it is built to the standard of safety and reliability it claims to be given the reputable manufacturer, rating, and seller. Once you include amazon's fulfillment and shipping costs, it isn't all that different from buying real ones from REI, and the peace of mind is worth the 2 dollars.
The problem is if you a climbing carabiner made in China. I don't want a made in China guarantee for my safety
I think something that's worth considering is: These devices are great for non-climbers, non-critical safety situations. Hanging a hammock? Go for it. Suspending your food bag up in a tree? Definitely. Even using it as an assisted lower for something like a canoe down a steep slope.
However, as a climber, I would never get these devices for fear they might mix into my main gear. Even though I'd (probably) spot the non-climbing ones and avoid their use, one of the people I bring out with me might grab one from my kit without realizing. Instead, for all of my camping stuff, I simply retire older carabiners for that (which comes with the added benefit that I can more likely use the gear I have on me during camping for more critical applications).
@@Tralin Would you trust it 50 ft off the ground in a hammock for an overnight.
@@AMC-eq3jr It's like you missed the "great for ... non-critical safety situations." part of my message and jumped straight to trying to be clever.
If it comes from Amazon I aint trusting my life to it. Even as a cheap university student deep in debt I'd prefer to keep my limbs and spine intact for a couple dollars more.
The one point that was kind of glossed over is the importance of good quality control. Everything from tracking manufacturing defects, to sampling plans, to tracking reports of defects, to issuing recalls are critical to ensure a product is safe and effective.
Yes, these specific crabs performed above their rating, but how likely would they spot a defective product during production? What is the probability of one of these carabiners having a critical defect? Is there a rate of unacceptable product leaving the facility before they stop production or issue a recall? Or would they just change the branding and keep pushing out product?
For example, the one crab pulled it's wire gate straight. This indicated the failure is due to the crack propagating from the wire attachment hole and not where we typically see it, an indication of localized stress concentration in an unusual spot. This shows there's likely insufficient manufacturing controls.
The other thing that affects price is design engineering time. Buying these essentially rewards the copycats, and punishes the inventors stifling innovation.
exactly...
i found these on Instagram advertised for trad climbing
because the cams are 12kn
absolute false advertisement
omg! that is insane!
I use them. I'm not that heavy.
Lots of pieces are under 12kn though. So why wouldn’t this be fine as long as you know what your doing especially in a multi piece anchor?
@@youhutchtube Exactly. 12 KN is more than enough. You can hang a Ford F150 from 12kn carabiners.
@@jasonelford4474 no, a small wire nuts break at say 10kn so this is stronger in theory and sounds tempting at first, but you'd want to throw them out after any falls because some metals such as aluminium are very prone to fatigue if you get loading anywhere near their expected failure load. To be certified you need a D shaped biner to 20kn or better - and they picked that number for a reason!
Did you get your money back from Amazon?
no, i should try for a follow up video though haha
@@HowNOT2 I just want to see their response
I use these. But not for climbing. I use them to hang tools or transport my backpack from one height to another at work. And they work. For everything else I would only use real climbing carabiners.
The simple reason that these break at a lower stress is because of the manufacturing process. A simple formula relating to Pi and Young’s Modulus shows how the Yield stress of a material is proportional to the diameter (C) of any external defects or 2x this length (2C) for internal inclusions.
Therefore during a cheaper manufacturing process the inclusions within the metal will have a larger diameter (due to factors such as turbulence in pouring molten metal, type of cast used, solidification time/pattern, use of a riser, etc etc). This consequently reduces the yield stress of the metal and therefore it breaks more easily.
That is why metals with identical reference codes can act differently to one another once processed.
I use these! They're dirt cheap compared to actual climbing carabiners, and a hella much stronger than clips, keychains etc. Super useful for clipping stuff to yourself, why sacrifice a €6 climbing carabiner to clip on my chalk bag, when a €1 or €2 carabiner would do? Why don't I use a simple clip? Cause they always break on me.
I also use a couple of these with a couple of unrated ultra cheap daisy chain slings to set up a hammock when camping.
Super useful stuff, dirt cheap, why dis them?
I don’t get why these are sketchy? They state the rate load 12kN, the break test confirms it exceeds that. They state specifically they are not for climbing. There are many uses for these for non-climbing, for example I use them for spearfishing float lines. They work great. Great video, just not sure why it was so negative towards these.
To many idiots in the world today. Love these for holding equipment and keys. Since I do rescue these are for holding equipment only. But still like to see the destructive testing as I have made equipment in the past and only recently found that CMI will due this for a small fee.
I've got a bunch of these. Thanks for testing them! I will be sleeping in my hammock in peace.
I think calling them “carry biners” would be a good thing. It differentiates them from a real carabiner. Carrying stuff is about all I’d use one for🤷🏻.
12 kN or 1200 kg x 2 is definitely enough for "aerial yoga" 4:38
I do training on gymnastic rings indoors when weather are extreeme outside. So my rings are attached to triangle climbing carabines that rated 45kn, use them becauce need flat space to attach ring belts. O.k. but thing is I want to say is that those carabines are attachet to concrete sealing with 12mm anchors, that rated only to hold 100kg, and I think it is horizontally, mine are vertically. So in short I'm hangind on 2x 100kg rated anchors with my head down and doing all crazzy stuf with rings already 2 years with no problem at all, and don't think it ever will come off. My weight is 85kg-90kg. So yeah 2400kg is enough even for grown gorilla male doing aeiral yoga, dude! Even car weight of volkswagen golf 2015 is 3126 lbs it is 1417.93 kilograms so car can do yoga too hanging on two amazon carabines :)
Love my cheapo amazon carabiners , great for fishing gear and tool holders. Nothing more
Unijoy sounds like a unisex bedroom toy
UniJoy - the joy of using them once.
😂😂
To be fair, they do state they are for non-climbing, gear carrying etc.... I use this sort of biner for heaps of uses....
I hate Amazon... actually in general
Wow, my corroded and munter-worn crabs should be fine for a little while yet...
If you think that's infuriating, wait until you find out about the black diamond micron.
Could be a few reasons why...1) The quality of the aluminum they get (there are companies claiming certain metal grades but are not). 2) skipping the heat treatment process and just using the base material. 3) What type of process used to make them. I guessing they are not hot forged, or stamped or milled out of one block of aluminum (which each process can give a metal certain characteristics)...My guess is they either use cast aluminum to make them (one of the cheapest, quickest and potentially weakest processes to use because it's easy to get air pockets in the metal and make it brittle. Companies use this process because you don't need metal bending equipment or metal milling equipment. You just make one mold of the shape you want and pour liquid metal into it. So you might get a few that hold 15kN and one that holds 9 kN) Or the wire gate is made from a cheaper metal.
Lack of forging was my thought as well. These are probably machined or cast. I have a bit of trouble believing they would have been as strong as they are if cast, but with die casting and post heat treatment perhaps.
Maybe Jeff doesn’t understand climbing. Just like he doesn’t understand most things... like space flight.
If a worst case lead fall is around 4kN, is there a meaningful difference between an 18kN carabiner and a 21kN one? Or is the concern more about durability and that the cheaper ones may not stand up as well after abuse?
This was very entertaining Ryan. Never would I ever use an amazon product for life safety, but I appreciate this video. There are so many new climbers/slackers who may not know that these are not actually safe to use!
ps: I really hope you send those back and get your money back.
There not only used for climbing. We use them hunting out of trees.
This is a very good review. And definitely don't use them for climbing. One thing, I'm a 30 year old adult but my hands are very small. From the tip of my middle finger to my wrist is six and a half inches.... For camping I'd like a small size carabineer. A lot of women are also about my size so it could be great for some demographics. Just not if they're climbing.
Also i could watch you break shit all day. Lol
These are great for camp use. Hammocks etc. Not climbing.
Are you actually worried about people using them for climbing? Anyone dumb enough to accidentally buy these for climbing probably also uses yellow 'rope' they bought at a hardware store. They aren't watching your channel. They aren't even going to get away with bringing these into an indoor climbing gym.
You'd have to ignore the rating, warnings, pictures, size, and then use it climbing. You do all that it's on you. And you'll be fine anyway, they talk about a bad fall being 4-8kn, this is rated for 12kn and tested for 18kn.
That girl in that video pretends to know a lot of things
I don't know what I find more upsetting; the fact that this product is being produced to a standard lower than that required by the industry's regulatory bodies, or the fact that it's exceeded it's claimed rating. Unfortunately - through no fault of yours - this video just doesn't show the product in the dim light it warrants.
However, just the thought of a counterfeited climbing product sends chills down my spine, and this alone will be enough to ensure all my future climbing purchases come from a reputable source.
You summed up our thoughts very well. We really wanted them to suck.
Thiiiiis...!
Plus the spooky part: the quality! Unfortunately that's super hard to show in a video without buying a bunch of them ((...but wait, if there's a "no questions asked money back guarantee" 🤔))
I'd trust every off-the-shelf Petzl biner in the world to function correctly and break at rating. These things? I wouldn't be shocked if you ordered 100 of them and 5% had functional or material issues because the knock-off factory doesn't care if bad products go to market.
I bought these. They hold my Nalgene to my hip 😂
I believe they're rated so low because of lacking QC.
Some (batch) of them might barely scratch 12kN, while others are as strong as you found them.
The Orange one (just) held 13.8kN.
Some people will climb with low quality gear no matter what you tell them.
Wether it's just old, heavily used, damaged or faulty from the factory.
Other people might just use these for clipping stuff to their Backpacks.
I'm actually impressed that they undersell rather than outright lie about their performance.
So as long as there's no lie used to sell these, im all live and let live. Or climb and let climb?
This video was super interesting. I am not in favor of purchasing less than reputable gear that you're putting your life on the line for, but I think I'd anything, this shines some light on companies that charge up the wazoo for gear.
Also, I would LOVE to see a rope test video, showing the Amazon ropes.
The Amazon ropes are good for hauling. I bought one just for the hell of it and did a handful of short rappels, it did the job but I wouldn't use them as a lifeline at height. Oh! I also bought an Edelweiss Canyon Prime rope from Amazon that is actually legit.
I discovered your channel off the pooping video and I'm hooked haha. This is amazing.
The one thing you got to realize is that lots of people just want a clip for their keys.... Climbing probably isn't where most total carabiners get used believe it or not so it doesn't make sense for them to plaster their page in unnecessary warnings.
Just the thing for leading on p-cord...
I bought some wire gates and auto lockers like those on amazon. I really like them for my Key chain and I like them way better than the silver hardware store carabiners for light loads like gym pulley attachments.
as long as they don't infiltrate the important biners
I actually just picked up a bunch of BD miniwires for keychains, bear hangs, hammocks, etc after I found a keychain biner in my climbing bag. I don’t want to chance grabbing the wrong thing by mistake.
Just throwing this out there, but from what I have heard (un substantiated rumors) you should not buy safety gear on amazon. The reason is that amazon frequently uses mixed inventory (commingled inventory) where "identical" products sold by multiple vendors are placed in the same inventory bin. The problem is that each vendor sources the product separately and while one vendor may be selling the genuine item, another vendor may be selling counterfeits. Since they get mixed in the amazon warehouse, it can become possible to receive counterfeit goods from a reputable seller. If you life depends on it, probably don't risk buying it on amazon.
Co mingled option (by packing and labelling in a certain way) can reduce seller's FBA (fulfilled by Amazon) costs, so Amazon encourage this
Based on the VERY mixed reviews, even on branded products, from Amazon purchasers, this definitely happens way too much.
Buying from Amazon is therefore a bit of pot luck. Not necessarily a big deal, because of the ease of return, but if something you need is mission/safety critical, it's better to buy from more reliable outlets than Amazon.
Is it just me or does sound go out at 16:50?
Or do they always do this?
Sort of weird. I wanted to search the comments for this but UA-cam removed the comment search function.
Yep same for me
I love these. They are great for hanging things on my bag/hammocks/etc. Anyone who wants to use it to climb or high line will get what they get lol.
Yeah I got a handful a couple years ago for small stuff and use one for my keychain lol. Wouldn’t ever trust it to climb tho.
i get the sentiment but they really are trying way too hard to look like climbing gear. they shouldnt even have a KN rating if theyre not for climbing. imagine buying some of these for hanging on bags and camping purposes and one falling in with your climbing gear. or an inexperienced buddy browsing amazon and just kinda buying things that look like what other climbers are using without asking questions. this could and probably has hurt some people real bad.
people that are NOT subscribed to this channel should really re-evaluate their life choices. just do it, its a win win.
it's not a commitment, just tap the button haha
FINE.. done
Ok I’ll do it sheesh!!!
thanks for testing these. I have a few of these - i don't climb and would not use them for anything safety critical. I use them for hanging weights from a weight belt for exercising. Good to know their plenty strong for the applications i use them for. They appear good quality and strong for non ciritical applications
and also they are too thin, so it will make rope bend too much, and more chances to damage rope
The jokes in this episode are way too funny. Made my day after a long workday.
Why is 12kn for a carabiner sketchy, but 7-10kn for nuts safe?
Yeah, I don't get it. They tested micro nuts which were rated and failed around 6kn and titled the video "You won't believe how strong micro stoppers are! Climbing nuts tested in real rock" and the conclusion was "would whip" but 12kn carabiners labeled repeatedly "not for climbing" is sketch?
To be fair. Any climber worth their salt, even someone with only a bit experience on climbing indoor/outdoor, should be able to recognize it is a "toy" carabiner, and it's not worth to use that gimmick carabiner for any activity that your life will literally depend on it.
If I got something for you to break test, how do I go about sending it to you?
Send me an email. ryan@slackline.com
My favorite part of videos about sketchy Amazon products is trying to read the SEO-gibberish-riddled descriptions word for word with a straight face. Project Farm and Donut Media have some gems too.
Love your content. I was a bit disappointed in this vid because I was hoping to see you test the crosloading and open gate strength of these. For me having no idea what those ratings are is the biggest reason not to use them. I have considered paring one of these with a cam that is also only rated for 12 KN but thought better of it when the idea that the strength could drop down to under 7KN if it ends up crosloaded in a fall. I kinda hate to see you buy more of these but I would certainly tune in for those tests.
Why are you upset again?
Out here doing gods work, thanks Ryan
They make a good kayak tow line though..... 😂😂😂
Could you test old ropes? Specially after the had som hard wipes from a rope jump for example. Would be super interesting for me!
I'm pretty sure they did a break on some 40 year old caving pit rope
7 series aluminum has a tighter grain structure and would act similarly to a 6 series t6. Basically they skip the heat treat process most likely for less manufacturing process, but still have the toughness of the 7 series
I would definitly watch an hour long episode about rope tests...
or several episodes... gotta keep that algorythm happy!!
Same. Would like to see static and dynamic rope tests along with different sling materials and widths. Also knots, no knots, hitches etc.
I always use climbing carabiners for anything, it just a little more expensive but waaaay more useful.
Do you live on a vineyard?
Are they rated for 12KN because that number has the same digits as 21KN? If so, that would be truly evil.
I would definitely like to see some Amazon "climbing rope" tests!
I mean, they are exactly what they claim to be. Seem to work fine for what they are. People do more than climbing with carabiners.
they are still deceptive and come in a bunch of plastic crappy packaging
@@theronwinsby Are they? They clearly say they are not for climbing, They clearly say they are rated for 12 kN. They are perfectly sufficient to hang something off your belt or whatever.
@@jort93z the argument is that they are built exactly like climbing biners, and there's an image of a climber, which could make people think these work for climbing. It says they're not for climbing in like, the smallest print on the page. Also that they give incorrect advice about climbing biners in the instructions
Funniest part is that they are more expensive than climbing rated carabiner (got made in Italy, UIAA CE etc biner for 4€ without tons of plastic)
@@katatat2030you’ll never stop companies from making “knockoff” carabiners but Amazon could delist anything w/ deceptive marketing. Unfortunately deceptive marketing is basically part of their business strategy and they’d have to remove a huge % of their listings, so 🤷♂️
Hot take: They're fine on nuts and small cams (that break on less than 12 kN).
Since they look so close to real ones, could they be rebranded QC failed names brand UIAA ones? Aslo i think they are 50% over rating because the QC is off on them so some might be higher and some are lower.
Good enough for me for half a PAS or backing up the brake end on a rappel.
C'mon, be honest though. Have you ever managed to put 12kn on something like that? I have a feeling that even at 7-10kn you'd be totally fine even on a massive shock load.
For a one time static load, but what will it fail at after several years of use. Almost all metals have significantly reduced fatigue properties.
Was pretty curious about the open gate and cross loading strength, considering they don't even mention it. Cool video regardless
Thanks for letting us know. I am suing UniJoy for copyright. We filed copyright for our cult in 2001. If we can get them for stealing our logo and name form the Koolaid / Rodent control factory we hire we will cut you in.
*similar
Best hypothesis I have: the gate is the weak point of every cheap carabiner. In every test, what seams to break first is wheter the gate hook or the gate itself.
I don't think the heat treatment or aluminium quality is the cause here, the way they break (they snap dry) suggest a heat treatment. I'd say the geometry of the gate hook and/or the quality of the steel the gates are made out of could be the cause of the lower rating. I'm curious Ryan, how opening the gates feels compared to real climbing carabiners?
the shapes of noses seem the same since they basically use the same designs as any carabiner and the gates open and feel the same.
Amazon rope please ❤️
Nice video. Yes I subscribed. Please test the Amazon off brand rope. I’d be curious at the 8mm and 10mm china “climbing” rope. Thx
I bought these for general use and ended up using them on the leg straps I make for sailing PFDs (Mustang vests). The Mustang company sells leg straps (~$100) - to keep the inflated vest from just lifting up around your neck in the water. They're attached with only ABS plastic clips - which seem pointlessly weak. The main purpose of leg straps is to keep the life vest in a better position in the rare event you go into the water. These vests have Spectra or metal D-rings for attaching safety lines to (Jack lines) so you don't get washed overboard.
My thinking was 1" webbing straps that have a sewn loop (11 bar stitches) on one end, carabinered to the belt webbing of the PFD, then run under the crotch, through the back loop on the PFD, then back under the crotch to carabiner the other waist strap. This side has a double knot loop so it's adjustable.
I figured that these 12kN carabiners should be strong enough. Your weight would be distributed if you were lifted straight up by three points of attachment. If you were lifted by the D-rings less than half your weight would be held by the three leg strap attachments.
My logic is that if I was in the water in a serious rescue situation I could quickly clip or tie into the D-Rings (not the leg straps) into whatever a helicopter or rescue vessel threw to me and with no possibility of me falling out of the whole harness PFD - quickly pull me to safety and be ready to help someone else. (I've given them to friends - but I wouldn't assume the liability of selling them. )
I really appreciate your video and testing. I guess it's full speed ahead for my straps. (Two of these carabiners cost about $12, the webbing costs about $6-8, it takes only few minutes to sew the single loop - I give them to my sailor friends. Saves them $100, while providing an additional safety margin. ) And if these carabiners in my straps are ever used to lift a sailor's weight it would be one time event.
I also use them on my hammocks (200 lbs max dead weight pull so ~900kN. Hammocks are easy. A standard 30 degree hang is your weight on each line. And I follow the hammock safety rule of don't hang higher than you can drop on your butt.
One thing I would add is that many carabiners (even climbing ones) have components that corrode quickly in salt water. There's a lot of info (and debate) on the carabiners used on sea kayaking tow ropes and tethers used in salt water. I don't doubt that some of the SS components (the little spring for an aluminum gate carabiner) will corrode quickly. I bought a little SS folding knife just before a 5 day course last fall and it was starting to rust by the end. It lived in my PFD so got wet during rescues.
Many kayak towing systems use climbing rated carabiners despite the fact that the loads are very low. In addition, those with a notch can easily catch on smaller deck lines, which makes them more of a hazard in use.
However, as others have said, for many applications something like this would work fine. In others, it would be dangerous. I would also be very interested in seeing the open gate load capacity.
Thanks for this.. This channel is the best! Keep up the good work.
Average amazon carabiner enjoyer: 🤡
In quality assurance, it is usual to measure repeatability (ie. multiple samples on the same test system/tester), and reproducibility (ie. different batches over long term, different testers/test equipment). This is often done in Tier I automotive industry with 3 different testers and 10 non-destructive testing samples. As you do destructive testing, thid would require 30 test samples. From this, we can calculate the standard deviation statistic, and estimate the statistics for the whole population that was manufactured.
For the Amazon specials, they may have a high variability in their manufacturing process, so they derate the rating to allow for this uncontrolled variability.
Im not familiar with legit climbing carabiners. How do we recognize a legit carabiner when we buy one? Thanks
Cool idea. I've wondered about that. When climbing, most of the time I worry a lot more about human error than equipment failure.
Man this video was pure gold from comedy to educational. You got my support bro!👍👍👍🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The biners that came with my hammock are 24kN DMMs. DD Hammocks didn't cheap out.
According to OSHA 1926.502(d)(3) Dee-rings and snaphooks shall have a minimum tensile strength of 5,000 pounds (22.2 kN).
Don’t understand the market. Climbing carabiners are really not that expensive. What do you need a carabiner between a keychain and a fully rated biner strength for?
At £7 minimum for a carabiner, it really does add up if you're on a budget.
@@AR-cy6uj the cheap ones are about 1/3 that prove, so say $10 for rated ones and $3.5 for these. If you can't afford $65 more for 10 rated carabiners ($100 vs $35$, that you trust your life to, you should get into a sport like pushing a wooden hoop down the street with a stick.