It's actually great to see the sim hardware scene get a boost with different manufacturers offering high quality products. It's especially helpful to have you testing these tools and support hardware so that gamers can get a head start in making informed decisions about which might suit our needs and budgets. The reviews don't replace personal hands-on experience with the products, but they are an excellent first step. Many thanks, Noobifier.
I LOVE my VKB Gunfighter Mk II, MCG Pro Grip. I don't think it is too light (of plastic) although that was my first impression before connecting it to the Gimble. Once attached, nobody will notice it thanks to the variety to customizable springs/settings. I also disagree regarding the Software. While it is extremely functional, it is anything but Easy in my opinion. I try to avoid it as much as possible due to it's complexity. I don't want to have to have a University Degree just to set something up. And without help, I'd still be staring at my stick instead of flying with it. But there is little doubt in my mind that this is The BEST Stick on the market for the price. It has way more button functions than any other stick I know of. There isn't any Sim Aircraft Module (eg: DCS Modules) that you cannot set up with ALL the RL functions on the stick ... and then some..
Excellent. I use a VKB Sim Gladiator MK2. Much cheaper / simpler stick but it's been a blessing for Star Citizen. There are cheaper clones but I understand you only get the full compliment of magnetic sensors with the VKB version. Great to see them being reviewed.
Kosmosima is the right size for average fists (and small fists). MCG has adjustable handrest (hight) but its overall pretty tall grip and not so suitable for desktop users, more like for simpit users. KG12 is what Im using now with Gladiator Pro MK1 and I like it, though I would like to try Kosmosima but that one is compatible only with Gladiator Mk2 and Gunfighters.
The foldable trigger is not a two buttons, it is a another axis that has one springloaded button, it has three default buttons: UP, DOWN and spring one when about 60% of the travel. But because it is an axis, you can set it to have multiple buttons through its travel. Like one or even three buttons before the spring loaded button gets pressed, and then again one or two buttons after it where one can be set activated only when you have trigger in contact with the end of the travel. This allows to trigger has multiple modes, like Master Arm OFF when it is folded UP, Master Arm ON when folded down, first stage trigger when squeezed at all and second stage trigger when fully pulled or when spring loaded button gets pressed. The same can be done with the break leveler, like wheel breaks in 0-99% of the axis and at the end have a air brakes. You can apply air brakes in the flight without any effect of the axis for wheel brakes, and then at landing and taxiing apply brakes without air brakes activation. Combine these with the landing modes etc and you get more options than any other stick really is there offering, be it a Virpil or any other. Adjusting the foldable trigger position as a modifier allows to make other things. Trigger UP position means Master Arm is OFF and now dual-stage trigger acts as a Autopilot override in first stage and second stage as example Autopilot disengage. Fold the trigger down and now you have Master Arm ON and the dual-stage trigger acts as a first stage and second stage for a canno OR first stage as FBW limiter Off. And as explained by the VKB, the choice of plastic is its sturdiness and cleaning possibilities. And far better decision than any metal as you do not want to wave a heavy metal stick around what is problem with Warthog grip that wears and tears and breaks the gimbal even and is tired some to move and do so accurately. The only real problem that someone can nitpick is the sound that hollow design causes, but that anyone can fix by filling the grip by whatever they want, example add there a lead weights and acoustic blocking material. The material feels just best of any other grip in various temperatures and just bare hand texture. The real sticks in aircrafts has a heavy weight limiters and feedback systems. Like if you want to override in a Russian aircraft the angle of attack limiter, you need only to apply a 15kg pull force to the stick to overcome the limiter, so you don't accidentally do it. Otherwise the stick is feeding feedback and has "dynamic curves" in it based the flight speed and modes, like while landing you can move the stick more and faster to do just minor adjustments but in close-combat mode at low speed the aircraft reacts faster to small changes in stick.
That metal trigger and brake handle axis make this stick really special. Unlike anything on the market. Thanks for explaining some detail about them. No useful information about them in this so-called "review."
VKB seems to be taking a step in the right direction ahead of Virpil in terms of Z axis. I still prefer the design options of the Gunfighter II and Mongoos so I wonder if they will produce a GFII Z axis adapter. I think that I'll have to admit right here that the arms race is on!
The VKB gimbal is entirely compatible with the warthog grip, for those that still need metal alloy in their hands. You do have to purchase the adapter from VKB and make a very minor and easy mod to the internals of the warthog grip (way less scary than it sounds). Be aware, however that the weight of the warthog grip is considerably more than that of the MCG and will affect the resistance and feel of the displacement traveled. This can be balanced out to a degree within the gimbal by swapping out/adding or adjusting springs and the dry clutch.
I know this is an older review, but I just ordered a MCP Pro, and chose it over the Ultimate because of the polymer grip. I've owned Glocks, and they are made from a very hard polymer. It doesn't feel warm or rubbery in the hand, but that doesn't detract at all from it. The polymer frame is also quite thin, which you can see when field stripped. Nevertheless, they are stronger than steel, which is why Glocks are now the standard military and police weapon in much of the world. If the VKB MCG Pro material is anywhere near that caliber of toughness, I'll be happy.
I personally don't mind high quality plastic grips even on high price point items, for me it's all about functionality in Star Citizen. I don't necessarily want realistic metal everything, especially if it comes with a trade-off
Just saw this old film. Thanks Noob for the comparison. How are the current bases as at 2021? The dry clutch vs the virpil design of cams and springs (which require damping grease?) . I own a Gladiator NXT but would like to upgrade and your input would be welcome having experience with both for space sims :). I don't like heaps of resistance due to buggered hands /spinal injuries but a nice feel is still important for fine control. I should say even with light springs and tweaking the amount of damping grease on the Gladiator I am not a fan of how it feels in movement of the main gimbal or the z-axis. It doesn't feel "analogue" as it's almost impossible to get each direction of each axis to have equal resistance due to the plastic construction and impact of the damping grease. If you have time to remark Id appreciate your input :).
I have both the Virpil WarBRD + Delta and the VKB Gunfighter + MGC Pro. When it comes down to it, I prefer the VKB. It feels better overall, the buttons and hats give a more positive response and the software blows Virpil’s out of the water. The only problem, as mentioned in the video, is actually getting hold of one.
vkb is straight up better when you look at the details, hat counts, and gimbal design. So it really comes down to do you wait for the better one or buy the less useful one now.
It is a "lack" when that's what you need to serve a purpose and don't have it. VKB, like others, can tap into that and make some money or ignore it and leave that money on the table.
I was wondering about smaller hands and thinking the other day a small hands perspective (Ms Noobifier comes to mind if fitted with small hands). Good inclusion.
VKB vs. Virpil.. which would you go with (if availability and cost are no object). Latest models with throttle that is best choice for DCS A-10C and other jet fighters. ALso will be used with X-plane aircraft that are more joystick oriented and helis. also i will use this setup with MS FS2020 (once it comes out). So here is the Virpil side of the equation to consider: VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Base VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Throttle. So what is equivalence on the VKB side? And again, which brand would you go with?
So, I have them all here, and I have three permanent setups. My standing desk on my main rig and two Monstertech sim rigs. Desk is two Virpil Warbrd bases and Alphas and CM2 throttle. Sim Helo is a CM2 base with a Warbrd Grip, Plus collective and Warbrd pedals. Sim plane is a CM2 base with a MT50 CM2 grip and the MT50 throttle. The VKB stuff is fine, but it mostly sits on a shelf. (There is no such throttle on VKB yet but they had said they were planning to release one. No new news since it was announced)
While I think its good for you to show us the high-end stuff, why not make a review and comparison of budget products that could get the job done for us.
I feel torn between two opinions about the big hand size controversy. Is this not good for small hands? Or is everything good for small hands when you use a desk mount?
The COSMO grip is very good for very small hands, like a youth. This MGC is the same size as a real fighter grip. It works very good for a range of sizes, but will work well for larger hands.
Love mine, only took 8mo to get the stick and another 4 to get the extension lol It was worth the wait though. (To be in stock, it actually shipped really fast)
Great video as always man. Can't wait for the three sticks compared. As a warthog owner I want to know if is worth it to upgrade and which way. Thanks for all you do!
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Oh wow. Just to confirm VKB plastic feels better than CH? You mentioned VKB kind of feels cheap but I find CH fighter stick feels really strong with no flex or creak. So if its better than that, thats pretty solid.
I assume the lower quality components are a cost cutting measure to keep the price within a certain niche. I am of your tastes. If I can get excellence with premium materials, I'll bite any price tag. These products are incredible. I'd gladly pay the difference.
Both the VKB and Virpril products look fantastic. I would choose either over the Thrustmaster HOTAS which seems to have quality and durability issues. But, it's a moot point since both VKB and Virpril are near impossible to obtain. 😕
One counter point that I would like to make about plastic vs metal sticks is that I'd argue that metal sticks are not an upgrade, but rather a down grade in terms of product endurance. The notion that metal is stronger than plastic assumes that your going to be using it to bash the daylights out of an unlucky ninja or home invader. In reality what kills sticks fast(er) is mounting unnecessary weight on top any given centering mechanism as it just leads to more wear/ tear/ stress. Up until a recently I carried a Gen 2 Glock before switching to a VP9. After something like 25 years of experience I'm rather confident in the robustness of magic plastic. A metal stick is just a marketing gimmick to make you think you're buying something built to last, but..... 5 dollars of china pot steel, a 30 dollar price hike, and extra weight to wear out the most worked mechanism in the machine is what you're getting IMHO. CH Products found the solution to making a reliable long lasting controller was to use good components, competent assembly staff and materials that were lightweight and durable. Personally I'm glad to see other companies following suit. Death to the over priced metal hunk of junk that only lasts 4-5 years.
The material used is poor quality considering the price, feels very light with clicky hollow buttons. VKB need to up their material game for their grips.
Buttons are rated for up to 50 million cycles. These buttons are better than the warthog buttons for example regardless of what you think they feel like.
I think both are fantastic gimbals. This is smaller in size and offers great torque for use with extensions. The new CM2 was designed to be the easiest to work on. The cam changes out in seconds and you don’t need to remove it completely from the housing. Same for the spring which is a set screw that can be dialled in precisely, Vs just choosing a spring. The CM2 is a much newer design that can accept Thrustmaster grips directly. Your question is difficult to answer because they are both at the highest level and either are a great choice. Finally, I would say that the Gunfighter has very few grip choices compared to VirPil who have about 7 now, but as i said are also compatible with others. This feature to me, the width of choice is important. VirPil also seem to be making new products rapidly such as the VFX and Alpha grips which have been added in 2019. Please feel free to ask me a more specific question. It’s hard to answer the one you asked.
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Thanks for the answer. One thing that somewhat annoys me with the CM2 is the inconsistent pressure required to move the joystick. I guess this is just the nature of these spring designs and the VKB may have the same issue, but I don't like that when I move in a diagonal direction the feel is twice as heavy as moving in X or Y axis only. Makes sense since I'm pushing against both sets of springs, but still annoying.
Withershadow this is true and THAT is why I still use WarBRD. I have the CM2 attached to my Helo Sim Rig because I need it for the extension. If you don’t need the torque, WarBRD IMO is the best performing gimbal based on the way I play. Practically no force, nice and light.
@@NOOBIFIER1337 I just received today the 200mm curved extension for the CM2, which I've paired with my existing 100mm extension. All my complaints about the gimbal are gone now, it feels so smooth and light with all that length. I had to lower the cross-piece all the way down, but that had the added advantage of being low enough for the gimbal not to hit my chair if I want to play with the stick in the center. I will still get a WARBRD+alpha for the left hand eventually, but for now I'm over the moon.
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Ofcourse! At 0:38 there is that plate under the base! I want to attach it to an 8020 rig, and maybe this plate is included (saves some money hehe)
@@debozebever ok, so this is likely from Monstertech. They make plates for all controllers as part of their mounting systems. They are thick aluminium and solid. There are links in my videos for their website
@NOOBIFIER this link "vkbcontrollers.com/?product_cat=vkb-controllers" seems not to land on the main page of the store ("Oops! That page can’t be found)", although you can find some products from vkb
Its a nice looking system but I really wish they would make the grip housing out of aluminum, steel, or some metal alloy. I have yet to find a stick that feels as satisfying as the Thurstmaster Warthog. I think its mostly (personal preference) because of the metal grip. I've been keeping an eye on Virpil and I'm really interested to hear your side by side comparison.
@@NOOBIFIER1337 been following it for a while, they mantioned it a few times and had a few pics up - but have stated they won't give any more info out until ready, concentrating kn space grip release. Will grab a link in a few (on the phone now)
@@NOOBIFIER1337 www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments/869zij/vkb_twist_release_date/ - bit of a read but has the facts in there when you sift through. And photos: vkbcontrollers.com/?p=7363
Noobifier, if you have an "in" with VKB, you could also ask about their upcoming throttle and optional add on pieces they plan to offer. When they release it I'd very much like to see you do a review, and a head to head vs the Virpil so I'll know which to pursue. Here's a web link so you can see what I'm talking about: stormbirds.blog/2018/01/02/first-look-at-vkbs-new-tecs-throttle/ The TECS throttle offers two optional "bolt on" pieces that add more buttons and functionality. If nothing else it looks smexy as hell! There are good pics of what I'm talking about at that link. I'd love info on them as well if you can manage it. One other thing, you might see about doing a review on the Thrustmaster 16000 HOTAS set, especially the throttle, I have one and I like it so far. Every review I've seen speaks highly of it, and it's a great price point to enter the market from for an average of $130 in North America. When you compare the TM 16k and throttle to similarly prices Saitec, the TM is SOOOOOOO much better. I'm sure at some point you've mentioned the TM 16k sticks, but the throttle is really good as well, and worth a mention! There are a number of good reviews from DCS content creators like Ralfidude if you'd like a preview to see if it's worth your time. Great video, can't wait to see more on this topic. The VKG vs Virpil vs Thrustmaster question is a good one to focus on!
Word? Maybe sometime soon. I just pulled the trigger (pun intended) on a pair based on your other VKB reviews. Thanks for those btw, great for persnickety buyers.
Never going to use anything like this, its for homebodies. I use a laptop and the only controller I’m interested in is a programmable Xbox controller. Would like to see some reliable custom versions based on those, instead of all that complicated joy stick craziness.
Do some research sir, don’t make yourself look dumb for nothing. “Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene (ABS) (chemical formula (C8H8)x·(C4H6)y·(C3H3N)z) is a common thermoplastic polymer.”
VKB stick is the rare one as it has dampeners in itself that you can adjust. You get exactly the realistic hydraulic feeling and precision and get to have stick stay where you want as well if so wanted.
@@sjonjones4009 I hear the thing about the x52 is quality control. Since Saitek sold, it hasn't been great. the old pre 2007 X52's are supposed to be good, but not the newer ones. I'm parroting what some of the DCS creators are saying, I don't know this for myself.
Waaayyyy too expensive. Only for the rich. DCS and Star Citizen are expensive enough. It's a joystick. It shouldn't cost $500. The price is RIDICULOUS. It should be about $150 at most.
Xtoor Gaming their customer support is well documented as being sub par, however, if the product is working fine, you won’t need to deal with them. Try harder please to not come off like a dick, it doesn’t achieve anything sir
It's actually great to see the sim hardware scene get a boost with different manufacturers offering high quality products. It's especially helpful to have you testing these tools and support hardware so that gamers can get a head start in making informed decisions about which might suit our needs and budgets. The reviews don't replace personal hands-on experience with the products, but they are an excellent first step.
Many thanks, Noobifier.
Noobifier reviewing VKB Joystick/hotas ? Hell yeah. Keep up the great work!
Another great video Noob, keep 'em coming! Really looking forward to the head to head comparison.
same, want to get sticks at some point, but dont want to use loads of money and get somthing im not happy with
I LOVE my VKB Gunfighter Mk II, MCG Pro Grip.
I don't think it is too light (of plastic) although that was my first impression before connecting it to the Gimble. Once attached, nobody will notice it thanks to the variety to customizable springs/settings.
I also disagree regarding the Software. While it is extremely functional, it is anything but Easy in my opinion. I try to avoid it as much as possible due to it's complexity. I don't want to have to have a University Degree just to set something up. And without help, I'd still be staring at my stick instead of flying with it.
But there is little doubt in my mind that this is The BEST Stick on the market for the price. It has way more button functions than any other stick I know of. There isn't any Sim Aircraft Module (eg: DCS Modules) that you cannot set up with ALL the RL functions on the stick ... and then some..
Excellent. I use a VKB Sim Gladiator MK2. Much cheaper / simpler stick but it's been a blessing for Star Citizen. There are cheaper clones but I understand you only get the full compliment of magnetic sensors with the VKB version. Great to see them being reviewed.
Kosmosima is the right size for average fists (and small fists). MCG has adjustable handrest (hight) but its overall pretty tall grip and not so suitable for desktop users, more like for simpit users. KG12 is what Im using now with Gladiator Pro MK1 and I like it, though I would like to try Kosmosima but that one is compatible only with Gladiator Mk2 and Gunfighters.
The foldable trigger is not a two buttons, it is a another axis that has one springloaded button, it has three default buttons: UP, DOWN and spring one when about 60% of the travel. But because it is an axis, you can set it to have multiple buttons through its travel. Like one or even three buttons before the spring loaded button gets pressed, and then again one or two buttons after it where one can be set activated only when you have trigger in contact with the end of the travel.
This allows to trigger has multiple modes, like Master Arm OFF when it is folded UP, Master Arm ON when folded down, first stage trigger when squeezed at all and second stage trigger when fully pulled or when spring loaded button gets pressed. The same can be done with the break leveler, like wheel breaks in 0-99% of the axis and at the end have a air brakes. You can apply air brakes in the flight without any effect of the axis for wheel brakes, and then at landing and taxiing apply brakes without air brakes activation. Combine these with the landing modes etc and you get more options than any other stick really is there offering, be it a Virpil or any other.
Adjusting the foldable trigger position as a modifier allows to make other things. Trigger UP position means Master Arm is OFF and now dual-stage trigger acts as a Autopilot override in first stage and second stage as example Autopilot disengage. Fold the trigger down and now you have Master Arm ON and the dual-stage trigger acts as a first stage and second stage for a canno OR first stage as FBW limiter Off.
And as explained by the VKB, the choice of plastic is its sturdiness and cleaning possibilities. And far better decision than any metal as you do not want to wave a heavy metal stick around what is problem with Warthog grip that wears and tears and breaks the gimbal even and is tired some to move and do so accurately. The only real problem that someone can nitpick is the sound that hollow design causes, but that anyone can fix by filling the grip by whatever they want, example add there a lead weights and acoustic blocking material. The material feels just best of any other grip in various temperatures and just bare hand texture.
The real sticks in aircrafts has a heavy weight limiters and feedback systems. Like if you want to override in a Russian aircraft the angle of attack limiter, you need only to apply a 15kg pull force to the stick to overcome the limiter, so you don't accidentally do it. Otherwise the stick is feeding feedback and has "dynamic curves" in it based the flight speed and modes, like while landing you can move the stick more and faster to do just minor adjustments but in close-combat mode at low speed the aircraft reacts faster to small changes in stick.
That metal trigger and brake handle axis make this stick really special. Unlike anything on the market. Thanks for explaining some detail about them. No useful information about them in this so-called "review."
VKB seems to be taking a step in the right direction ahead of Virpil in terms of Z axis. I still prefer the design options of the Gunfighter II and Mongoos so I wonder if they will produce a GFII Z axis adapter. I think that I'll have to admit right here that the arms race is on!
Great video Noob. I appreciate the attention to detail in your reviews.
All I could do was drool watching those controllers... thanks for helping me make a choice on my next flight system Noobifier!
These hardware reviews are some of your best content. Keep it up!
The VKB gimbal is entirely compatible with the warthog grip, for those that still need metal alloy in their hands. You do have to purchase the adapter from VKB and make a very minor and easy mod to the internals of the warthog grip (way less scary than it sounds). Be aware, however that the weight of the warthog grip is considerably more than that of the MCG and will affect the resistance and feel of the displacement traveled. This can be balanced out to a degree within the gimbal by swapping out/adding or adjusting springs and the dry clutch.
But it screws directly to WarBrd...
Very keen for the Virpil/VKB comparison.
Same. Sticks will be bought based on this mans opinion since there’s no way I’ll get to try either before hand.
I know this is an older review, but I just ordered a MCP Pro, and chose it over the Ultimate because of the polymer grip. I've owned Glocks, and they are made from a very hard polymer. It doesn't feel warm or rubbery in the hand, but that doesn't detract at all from it. The polymer frame is also quite thin, which you can see when field stripped. Nevertheless, they are stronger than steel, which is why Glocks are now the standard military and police weapon in much of the world. If the VKB MCG Pro material is anywhere near that caliber of toughness, I'll be happy.
Thanks for the feedback
That was a good review and a fine joystick. Good work noob
This set up is exactly what I want but cost and availability makes it a big problem for me.
Hey Noob. do you fly DCS at all?
I personally don't mind high quality plastic grips even on high price point items, for me it's all about functionality in Star Citizen. I don't necessarily want realistic metal everything, especially if it comes with a trade-off
Can't wait to watch the other reviews!
Just saw this old film. Thanks Noob for the comparison.
How are the current bases as at 2021? The dry clutch vs the virpil design of cams and springs (which require damping grease?) .
I own a Gladiator NXT but would like to upgrade and your input would be welcome having experience with both for space sims :).
I don't like heaps of resistance due to buggered hands /spinal injuries but a nice feel is still important for fine control.
I should say even with light springs and tweaking the amount of damping grease on the Gladiator I am not a fan of how it feels in movement of the main gimbal or the z-axis. It doesn't feel "analogue" as it's almost impossible to get each direction of each axis to have equal resistance due to the plastic construction and impact of the damping grease.
If you have time to remark Id appreciate your input :).
I own both, I actually like the VKB plastic more than the soft touch stuff
If it were perhaps a thicker casting using more plastic I would be happy with it.
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Yeah I agree on that!
Great review again. Keep up the good work.
Now I am torn between Virpil and VKB. Thanks for the video Noobifier.
You should consider both price point and waiting time, both are great products.
I have both the Virpil WarBRD + Delta and the VKB Gunfighter + MGC Pro. When it comes down to it, I prefer the VKB. It feels better overall, the buttons and hats give a more positive response and the software blows Virpil’s out of the water. The only problem, as mentioned in the video, is actually getting hold of one.
vkb is straight up better when you look at the details, hat counts, and gimbal design. So it really comes down to do you wait for the better one or buy the less useful one now.
@@snotcycle Do the VKB come in a left handed version as well? I could'nt find any on the site for the MCG Pro.
They do not. But there is a new stick coming for us
It's not a "lack" of Z axis. It's authentic.
It is a "lack" when that's what you need to serve a purpose and don't have it. VKB, like others, can tap into that and make some money or ignore it and leave that money on the table.
Awesome, but daunting... to me anyways. Thanks for the info, Noobifier!
I have this stick. I love it. Was hoping you would get this opportunity.
Very nice video thank you. What are you using for the desk mount ?
Great review man, thanks!
I was wondering about smaller hands and thinking the other day a small hands perspective (Ms Noobifier comes to mind if fitted with small hands). Good inclusion.
Im really looking forward to your overall review of all of the sticks!
Hello, can we use Joestick Gremling with this Joestik? Thanks!
Since you have all the different sticks, you should invite us over so we can try yours before buying. :)
Nice setup. Amazing.
I'm really wanting a stick upgrade, just can't decide. Or find them available.
VKB vs. Virpil.. which would you go with (if availability and cost are no object). Latest models with throttle that is best choice for DCS A-10C and other jet fighters. ALso will be used with X-plane aircraft that are more joystick oriented and helis. also i will use this setup with MS FS2020 (once it comes out). So here is the Virpil side of the equation to consider: VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Base
VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Throttle. So what is equivalence on the VKB side? And again, which brand would you go with?
So, I have them all here, and I have three permanent setups. My standing desk on my main rig and two Monstertech sim rigs. Desk is two Virpil Warbrd bases and Alphas and CM2 throttle. Sim Helo is a CM2 base with a Warbrd Grip, Plus collective and Warbrd pedals. Sim plane is a CM2 base with a MT50 CM2 grip and the MT50 throttle. The VKB stuff is fine, but it mostly sits on a shelf. (There is no such throttle on VKB yet but they had said they were planning to release one. No new news since it was announced)
Which should I go with, VKB or Virpil, I cant decide damnit
Great review. Now I'm interested to see what the plastic is like from the competition, as I've been using an MCG since initially released
I will be working on that this week
How did you attach the black box to the mount. I don't see any screws, did you use double sided tape?
The Monstertech Mount has screw holes on their updated plates below the gimbal. Yes, I stuck it with 3M just for the testing.
Great review!
While I think its good for you to show us the high-end stuff, why not make a review and comparison of budget products that could get the job done for us.
Thrustmaster T16000
Good review. Thanks.
I feel torn between two opinions about the big hand size controversy.
Is this not good for small hands?
Or is everything good for small hands when you use a desk mount?
The COSMO grip is very good for very small hands, like a youth. This MGC is the same size as a real fighter grip. It works very good for a range of sizes, but will work well for larger hands.
bought mine today YAY :D
I really like the look of these and I hope in the future I can save the funds for one but next upgrade is my computer.
Love mine, only took 8mo to get the stick and another 4 to get the extension lol It was worth the wait though. (To be in stock, it actually shipped really fast)
thanks Noob
it`s top product! Thx
Great video as always man. Can't wait for the three sticks compared. As a warthog owner I want to know if is worth it to upgrade and which way. Thanks for all you do!
Noobifier, how does the plastic build quality compare to CH fighter stick?
Smood47 it’s much better.
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Oh wow. Just to confirm VKB plastic feels better than CH? You mentioned VKB kind of feels cheap but I find CH fighter stick feels really strong with no flex or creak. So if its better than that, thats pretty solid.
It’s ABS, which is the opposite of cheap, but it feels hollow and light.
cant wait for that vid comparing the t50 to this :D
I assume the lower quality components are a cost cutting measure to keep the price within a certain niche. I am of your tastes. If I can get excellence with premium materials, I'll bite any price tag. These products are incredible. I'd gladly pay the difference.
"Pro" should pull no punches.
Good stuff 👍
Both the VKB and Virpril products look fantastic. I would choose either over the Thrustmaster HOTAS which seems to have quality and durability issues. But, it's a moot point since both VKB and Virpril are near impossible to obtain. 😕
VirPil is sold every 2 weeks. You just need to log in when they add stock. No biggie
Hi, can I make a question? How much si tall the MCG and the Gunfighter base? From base to the highest point.
Thx.
Please message me at noobifiermedia@gmail.com to remind me. I will check tonight when I get home from work
One counter point that I would like to make about plastic vs metal sticks is that I'd argue that metal sticks are not an upgrade, but rather a down grade in terms of product endurance. The notion that metal is stronger than plastic assumes that your going to be using it to bash the daylights out of an unlucky ninja or home invader. In reality what kills sticks fast(er) is mounting unnecessary weight on top any given centering mechanism as it just leads to more wear/ tear/ stress.
Up until a recently I carried a Gen 2 Glock before switching to a VP9. After something like 25 years of experience I'm rather confident in the robustness of magic plastic.
A metal stick is just a marketing gimmick to make you think you're buying something built to last, but.....
5 dollars of china pot steel, a 30 dollar price hike, and extra weight to wear out the most worked mechanism in the machine is what you're getting IMHO.
CH Products found the solution to making a reliable long lasting controller was to use good components, competent assembly staff and materials that were lightweight and durable. Personally I'm glad to see other companies following suit. Death to the over priced metal hunk of junk that only lasts 4-5 years.
The material used is poor quality considering the price, feels very light with clicky hollow buttons. VKB need to up their material game for their grips.
I had a similar experience
Buttons are rated for up to 50 million cycles. These buttons are better than the warthog buttons for example regardless of what you think they feel like.
You think these are better than the Virpil CM2 updated gimbal and stick?
I think both are fantastic gimbals. This is smaller in size and offers great torque for use with extensions. The new CM2 was designed to be the easiest to work on. The cam changes out in seconds and you don’t need to remove it completely from the housing. Same for the spring which is a set screw that can be dialled in precisely, Vs just choosing a spring. The CM2 is a much newer design that can accept Thrustmaster grips directly. Your question is difficult to answer because they are both at the highest level and either are a great choice. Finally, I would say that the Gunfighter has very few grip choices compared to VirPil who have about 7 now, but as i said are also compatible with others. This feature to me, the width of choice is important. VirPil also seem to be making new products rapidly such as the VFX and Alpha grips which have been added in 2019. Please feel free to ask me a more specific question. It’s hard to answer the one you asked.
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Thanks for the answer. One thing that somewhat annoys me with the CM2 is the inconsistent pressure required to move the joystick. I guess this is just the nature of these spring designs and the VKB may have the same issue, but I don't like that when I move in a diagonal direction the feel is twice as heavy as moving in X or Y axis only. Makes sense since I'm pushing against both sets of springs, but still annoying.
Withershadow this is true and THAT is why I still use WarBRD. I have the CM2 attached to my Helo Sim Rig because I need it for the extension. If you don’t need the torque, WarBRD IMO is the best performing gimbal based on the way I play. Practically no force, nice and light.
@@NOOBIFIER1337 I just received today the 200mm curved extension for the CM2, which I've paired with my existing 100mm extension. All my complaints about the gimbal are gone now, it feels so smooth and light with all that length. I had to lower the cross-piece all the way down, but that had the added advantage of being low enough for the gimbal not to hit my chair if I want to play with the stick in the center. I will still get a WARBRD+alpha for the left hand eventually, but for now I'm over the moon.
Fantastic
When you can‘t afford either its easy to choose
Might be time for an update on this?
This is the first decent review I have found for this controller. One question I have is does this fit on the Virpil desk mounts?
I would think not without some modification. You would need to drill new holes
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Thanks. Another factor to consider when comparing as the Virpil desk mounts are very good value.
Does that plate to attach the base to 'whatever' comes in the package?
Can you refine the question please with more detail
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Ofcourse! At 0:38 there is that plate under the base! I want to attach it to an 8020 rig, and maybe this plate is included (saves some money hehe)
@@debozebever ok, so this is likely from Monstertech. They make plates for all controllers as part of their mounting systems. They are thick aluminium and solid. There are links in my videos for their website
@NOOBIFIER this link "vkbcontrollers.com/?product_cat=vkb-controllers" seems not to land on the main page of the store ("Oops! That page can’t be found)", although you can find some products from vkb
Be sure to review the Kosmosima in desktop mode please. A shorter height stick would be ideal for players who dont want to use mounts.
Its a nice looking system but I really wish they would make the grip housing out of aluminum, steel, or some metal alloy. I have yet to find a stick that feels as satisfying as the Thurstmaster Warthog. I think its mostly (personal preference) because of the metal grip. I've been keeping an eye on Virpil and I'm really interested to hear your side by side comparison.
not cost effective and less profit for the manufacturer unless you want to pay 1k just for a grip.
Can this :VPC Constellation DELTA Grip use the analogue hat to control gimbals separate from flight axis in Star Citizen?
Yes
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Wow, would it be possible to show this in a quick vid, and let me us know if this is a viable option.
I realy love 3 axis joysticks, know anywhere you can get a mount for that?
Monstertech?
Stupid question: can it be used on Xbox platform?
No, they do not include the required licence chip
Don't forget they are actively developing a twist insert mod for this also...
I know they are putting it in sticks... I haven't seen anything concrete about the twist module
@@NOOBIFIER1337 been following it for a while, they mantioned it a few times and had a few pics up - but have stated they won't give any more info out until ready, concentrating kn space grip release.
Will grab a link in a few (on the phone now)
@@NOOBIFIER1337 www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments/869zij/vkb_twist_release_date/ - bit of a read but has the facts in there when you sift through.
And photos:
vkbcontrollers.com/?p=7363
Nice kit.
hello and thank you for the answer, this model has all 3 axes:
Not really. The Kosmosima has three. This has a mini stick
Were these sticks paid for by you, or given to you at no cost by the manufacturer
Looks amazing but I would need someone to set it up for me and give me training on it.
Noobifier, if you have an "in" with VKB, you could also ask about their upcoming throttle and optional add on pieces they plan to offer. When they release it I'd very much like to see you do a review, and a head to head vs the Virpil so I'll know which to pursue. Here's a web link so you can see what I'm talking about: stormbirds.blog/2018/01/02/first-look-at-vkbs-new-tecs-throttle/ The TECS throttle offers two optional "bolt on" pieces that add more buttons and functionality. If nothing else it looks smexy as hell! There are good pics of what I'm talking about at that link. I'd love info on them as well if you can manage it.
One other thing, you might see about doing a review on the Thrustmaster 16000 HOTAS set, especially the throttle, I have one and I like it so far. Every review I've seen speaks highly of it, and it's a great price point to enter the market from for an average of $130 in North America. When you compare the TM 16k and throttle to similarly prices Saitec, the TM is SOOOOOOO much better. I'm sure at some point you've mentioned the TM 16k sticks, but the throttle is really good as well, and worth a mention! There are a number of good reviews from DCS content creators like Ralfidude if you'd like a preview to see if it's worth your time.
Great video, can't wait to see more on this topic. The VKG vs Virpil vs Thrustmaster question is a good one to focus on!
Is a review for the SCG “kosmosima” coming soon?
No, they have not offered to let me test them
Word? Maybe sometime soon. I just pulled the trigger (pun intended) on a pair based on your other VKB reviews. Thanks for those btw, great for persnickety buyers.
Never going to use anything like this, its for homebodies. I use a laptop and the only controller I’m interested in is a programmable Xbox controller. Would like to see some reliable custom versions based on those, instead of all that complicated joy stick craziness.
If all I could use is a plastic toy controller, I wouldn't even bother. I could care less about gaming, i'm only interested in realistic simulators!
the lack of a z-axis is kind of a deal breaker, at least for me
Pedals are not that expensive these days...
These are only $500USD ua-cam.com/video/0Jjcsw-KAn4/v-deo.html
For this amount of money I would expect a bit more then this plastic top. The base looks great and solid. It doesn't really come together for me
The polymer is ABS and it’s what the real grip is made from. Not low quality, just not metal.
@@NOOBIFIER1337 OK, thanks
@@NOOBIFIER1337 ABS is plastic.
Do some research sir, don’t make yourself look dumb for nothing. “Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene (ABS) (chemical formula (C8H8)x·(C4H6)y·(C3H3N)z) is a common thermoplastic polymer.”
nice but too expensive
WAY too expensive.
Russian stick vs Belorussian stick... hm... take one)
450$! No thanks I am building my own that costs less than 100$ and that includes dumpers for more realistic hydraulic feeling and precision.
VKB stick is the rare one as it has dampeners in itself that you can adjust. You get exactly the realistic hydraulic feeling and precision and get to have stick stay where you want as well if so wanted.
Can you post pictures or make a tutorial?
Could you bring us a 100$ or so good stick?
T16000 M
@@NOOBIFIER1337 I have those. But it sits on the table and has few buttons. I'd like a stick that solved those issues around 150$ max.
VKB Gladiator Mk.II
@@noelcresencio If you like throttles, the T16k throttle is also very good.
@@sjonjones4009 I hear the thing about the x52 is quality control. Since Saitek sold, it hasn't been great. the old pre 2007 X52's are supposed to be good, but not the newer ones. I'm parroting what some of the DCS creators are saying, I don't know this for myself.
Good hell, file your nails, bro lol
This looks similar to Virpil
Waaayyyy too expensive. Only for the rich. DCS and Star Citizen are expensive enough. It's a joystick. It shouldn't cost $500. The price is RIDICULOUS. It should be about $150 at most.
me
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Over-glorified reviews always gives me the sensation that it is a paid review, no downside to it? I mean nothing at all?
Xtoor Gaming their customer support is well documented as being sub par, however, if the product is working fine, you won’t need to deal with them. Try harder please to not come off like a dick, it doesn’t achieve anything sir
@@NOOBIFIER1337 You want people to buy this, and your calling them dicks? WHOSE THE DICK?
Virpil or nothing!