Joseph Smith Photo The Inside Story w/Lachlan MacKay
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2022
- Steven Pynakker is joined by John Hamer and Lachlan MacKay to discuss the newly discovered photo that may very well be of Joseph Smith! On this very special episode of Mormon Book Reviews the history and provenance of the photo is discussed. Lachlan was involved early on when the photo was first uncovered. He describes how they were able to keep the discovery from being leaked and the very techniques used to identify the photo. I want to thank John Hamer for helping facilitate this wonderful and groundbreaking conversation.
Photo Copyright 2022 Dan Larsen
#JosephSmithPhoto #CommunityofChrist #LDS #josephsmithphotograph
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Very well done. Thank you for posting. I liked the quote, "Emma was very protective of the image of Joseph." With reason. She had been through a lot.
There are points on the death mask that fit the photo so well that I don't see how it could be anyone but Joseph. The first point I noticed was the left side of the left eyebrow. Lines of the face around his mouth. Many things that, as an artist, I've learned to look for, because when I'm drawing someone, if I miss those little points and lines, it changes the look of the person.
Lach, I’m not saying the photo isn’t Joseph Smith, but your analysis focuses on explaining away differences between the photograph and the 1842 David Rogers painting, all of which appear in the death mask. You spoke briefly about a bump on the left side of JS’s upper lip. One Smith-family trait was a bulging lip tubercle or procheilon projection in the center. I don’t see this in the photograph.
Agree. They are explaining away things that match the painting.
He also is said to have had thick and very bushy eyebrows, no way would anyone in their right mind say that this man has thick eyebrows... AND he has curly hair, Joseph Smith III was adamant in 1910 that his dad didn't have curly hair, no artwork shows curly hair, but brushed "straight forward". Note, also the right side of Joseph's mouth comes up in a permanent smile, scars seem evident on the death mask, and the left corner droops, opposite on the death mask, and if they claim it's in the wrong perspective and flip the image... the furrow between the eyebrows is also then- on the wrong side (the painting shows the mouth matching the lopsided corners of the mouth and match). I did the analysis and it's not a match, but a CDV of a different individual is, and a paper is written...
Underlying bone structure tells the tale. Photo (P) man has a rather prominent brow ridge demarcated by a horizontal line and evidenced in 2D light/dark relief on the left side of his forehead. Death mask (M) shows JS's profile with virtually no brow ridge. P has a stronger, wider, more "masculine" mandible while M's lower jaw is proportionately smaller and more pointed at the chin and recedes quite severely in profile. P's overall facial shape is longish and rectangular while M's face is fuller at the center and heart-shaped. P's nasal bridge is uniformly thin while M's widens toward the tip. P's cheekbones are flatter, giving him a gaunter appearance while M's cheeks are full and prominent. Comparing the painted portrait: Virtually no one looking at this and then at the photo would say definitively that they are one and the same man. P's ears protrude significantly at the top & the earlobes appear to be attached while the portrait's ears give no hint of what is plain in the photo and the lobes appear to be free. Their eyebrows are shaped very differently, too. No competent portraitist would get such features so wrong. Also, the crease on the left glabella is a common feature seen in Caucasian men approaching middle age. The crease on the right is less evident likely because of the lighting angle so the feature in itself is not dispositive of anything. Dan Vogel is right re the upper lip tubercle. It is very evident in the death mask but not at all in the photo. Unlike Dan I am willing to say affirmatively that the daguerreotype is not of Joseph Smith.
Dan, I like your videos.
UPDATE- paper on photographs of Joseph Smith was published in Jan. 2023, in the "Anthropological Review", written by professional face identifier and Forensic Anthropologists Maciej Henneberg and Teghan Lucas.
Real experts have been working on this subject, for YEARS and have been intent on publishing, so know that a much more thorough analysis will be published, by the actual scientists (who have previously been published MANY times already, and know what they are doing).
Awesome, informative interview and very timely after the news came out. Thanks for doing this.
John Hamer was exactly who I wanted to hear from after I learned about the news of the Joseph Smith Jr picture.
First person I thought of
Brilliant description with concise analysis. Thankyou for sharing this with us. I have been educated and uplifted.
Can or has this photo been cleaned up on a computer? Some famous people have been brought to life from old photos and even sculptures. I would love to see this done to him. He is my Prophet and my hero too.
Top notch interview. Just about everything I can think of was covered.
I'm so glad you are doing this!
That's a fascinating discussion, and an amazing thing to find.
Very nice. I was originally a solid skeptic based mostly on the apparent differences between the death mask and daguerreotype, but I'm much closer to being persuaded now.
Wonderful, gentlemen; thank you.
Having read their article now thanks to a contact in Utah, I am even more so of the opinion (aligned with Many others that have now looked at this) that this is not a photo of Joseph Smith. I very much want a photo of him, and it is likely a photo of a relative of his, but not of Joseph smith.
It’s a great story and great find for the family, it’s just not Joseph Smith.
Did you know there's a website that has another possible image of Joseph Smith. It's called The Prophet's Scars, with UA-cam videos of the image overlaid Joseph's death mask. The UA-cam channel is called Debi's UA-cam channel. Both the website and the UA-cam channel researches different aspects of the photo to establish provenance. The website has a link to a scientific journal. It is a short peer-reviewed article. It states, "A morphological comparison is made between the death mask and the photograph in order to establish the likelihood that the man in the photograph is the prophet. Sixteen points of anatomical similarity were found between the death mask and the photograph, the most compelling of which is asymmetry of the face and a possible scar in the area of the left eyebrow." It would be great if you could interview the owner of that photo.
Thank you! Very informative. I agree, read the article.
Lach MacKay is one of the most honest and brilliant scholars you will ever meet, as well as one of the finest human beings. Thank you MBR for consulting him and John together and for the brilliant analysis they provided. Such an exciting moment for Mormonism. Onward and upward.
I lived in Hamilton, Missouri from 97-04. One of the great things living there was all the church history research going on that we would learn about done by LDS, Community of Christ or other peoole interested in church history. I went to several forums and conferences that would included LDS, CofC and others. It was a lot of fun. It's interesting to how this particular photo came about. I'm leaning towards probably Smith family. They may be right. I'm one of those leaning towards maybe Hyrum. I did study a lot of things like the death mask etc when I was there. I see family but I don't get Joseph. There is some Provenance but there isn't any journal entry or anything talkng about a locket with Joseph's photo.
Thank You!!
The article talks of a daguerreotype of Lucy Mack Smith, I am certain is NOT Lucy, we have life drawings by Frederick Piercy and Maudsley painted her profile, her nose was not like that at all, and this image shows a man with almost no eyebrows, they are so thin, but Joseph had quote "Bushy" and "thick" eyebrows... you would see that in this very crisp daguerreotype. Secondly, the hair is super curly, Joseph Smith III said that his father did NOT have curly hair, in the 1910 letter to the Salt Lake Tribune. Being he is a descendant of Bertha Madison, and Bertha wore this locket, it's probably her relative, as he looks so much like Bertha, more than Joseph Smith III... Joseph often gave his wives gold pocket watches, it was his thing- to give those, so Emma having one is not shocking, I am just shocked that my videos were getting massive views right before this was published, and so many statements are similar as my own observations about a CDV tht for sure was printed in Kendall County Illinois, in the 1860s, when the sons lived in Kendall County and Emma SMith traveled there and this man does have Joseph's hairstyle, eyebrows.
Over the top interesting.
Excellent talk!
I personally think it it is him after looking at various photos of the painting and the death mask. The hair line matches, the lips match (on the death mask) and the painting includes similar creases on the face to the face in the picture even the nose in the painting looks a little similar to the nose in the picture, also, the distance between the lips and nose match the death mask.
Most similar to the death mask, made by my great great grandfather, Ariah Coats Brower, aided by G. Cannon.
Very interesting. Another comment here compared the photo to the death mask. The photo seems to show a man with heavier facial bone structure. Comparing the photo with death masks of Joseph and Hyrum, the photo looks more like Hyrum in my opinion.
Respectfully, only DNA could absolutely prove that Anna Anderson was not the Grand Duchess Anastasia. All sorts of physical measurements were compared to photographs for years. Until fairly recent times, the answer was not absolute.
These are just some thoughts. Whether or not Joseph was as good looking as the painting, I think his face had a finer, thinner bone structure. The death mask also shows fuller lips while that of Hyrum shows thinner lips similar to the photo.
Thanks!
If Joseph Smith III believed he had a daguerreotype from 1842/43, maybe there's another one? Also could you add a link to the article in the description?
Hmmm... I don't think it resembles Joseph Smith. There are two different sketches of him by two different artists. Both look the same. One is on the cover of Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman. They have him as a round faced, round headed, no necked, portly fellow. The same with the one of him in his Nauvoo General's uniform with him holding his sword in the air. I don't know who this guy is, but he isn't Joseph Smith. We have photos of Brigham Young, John Taylor, Lorenzo Snow, Porter Rockwell, Orson Hyde, Helen Kimball, Marinda Hyde and tons more. I know we have photos of Joseph Smith too. They are where the rock was kept.
Photos must have been taken. But do they still exist? My best bet is something in the LDS church archives they have hidden because it is unfavorable to Joseph smith in some way
@@grantbeck9228 have you listened to the interview?
@@debbieshrubb1222 Yes. Very impressive the effort they're going to, to be as certain as possible. But they are still going off artists conceptions. In a court of law, they'd shoot so many holes in their claim that the case would never make it to trial. Not trying to be negative but there has to be numerous photos of him. To think there isn't, is completely unreasonable. He was the most high profile figure in the hood. Always speaking, always in trouble, always doing, was the Mayor, the Prophet, the center of all the talk and commotion and debate. It's totally unreasonable to think there aren't several photos of him. Also, the two artists of the time, that actually drew him, showed him to be a round faced, round headed, no necked portly fellow. More like the image we used to see of him sitting at the table, translating the plates, while wearing the oversized glasses and wearing the breast plate and looking at the gold plates. The more recent artists conception of him have changed to making him look more rugged, more narrow waisted, more athletic, more chisel and knurled faced. Also, John Beadle, a reporter of the day, reported him as being round and soft looking. Nothing like our possible photo guy here. If all we had of him were the original artists drawings of him that were done at the time, this guy would never be picked out of the line-up by any one. I'm positive we have pics of him. I'm just as positive they are being hidden. Like the first vision account was, like the rock was.
@@samueljeppsen9785 do you think it is the church historians office with the seer stone?
@@Sayheybrother8 I'm absolutely positive Anthony. May feelings anyway. I feel that way because it's way to improbable that there are no pics of him. We have almost perfect paintings of George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, etc etc. And all the reproduction paintings of them, look like the originals. But nothing for Joseph and each painting of him, he gets more and more rugged and handsome with big muscular and chiseled hands. Even Jesus Christ's paintings don't change as much as Joseph Smith's do. And yet, the two artists that drew him while in person with him, show him as a round faced, round headed, no necked, portly fellow. So I don't know. But that's where the 1832 first vision was kept.
It's interesting, that in the Church we love, in our very important and vital history, we have zippo, zero, nadda of a man so influential, an entire worldwide religion was started by him.
If you look at Joseph Smith's death mask there are several differences in the contour of the cheeks. The nose is round on the tip on the mask in contrast to the pointed nose on locket. Also in all the portraits of Joseph, his hair isn't as thick and definitely comed very differently. Also the claim is he had a long nose which isn't the case in the locket picture. Just some thoughts.
Agreed, also is missing is a step deformity, Dr. Niles Herrod noted in 1995, along with missing the thick eyebrows seen in the artwork and said by many who knew him, the hair for sure is too thick and is CURLY, a trait is son contended with the Salt Lake Tribune about- sayign their artist Ramsey painted his dad with "Curly hair" and his Father "did not have curly hair".
I think he looks like his dad.
Thank you 🙏
I can testify, it is Joseph.
The death mask of Joseph and Hyrum really show off Josephs pointed peak like nose and his slight chin. The new photo looks nothing like that.
I totally agree. I think the photo looks more like Hyrum’s death mask than joseph’s
How much damage was done to his face during his violent death? His nose in the portraits does match the photo, and a side view of the photo might look a lot different and match the mask better.
@@lilatueller but why would descendants of Joseph wear a picture of Hyrum, especially in light of the schism?
The slight chin is due to the death mask being taken while lying down.
One other factor; was much time put into comparisons of the image to those of Smith's biological children? Not a lot of this dags features seem to be shared with JS III, Alexander or David.
I always thought the Smith sons bore a strong resemblance to Emma, especially their eyes. I once read somewhere that sons receive more DNA from their mother and daughters more from their father.
I have always been struck by how modern renditions of what Joseph may have looked like bear a strong resemblance to his niece through his brother Don Carlos Smith, Josephina Donna Smith, AKA Ina Coolbrith.
I've often wondered if those artistic renditions were not based on photographs of Ina. If the DNA theory holds, Ina would have more of a resemblance to her father than her mother Agnes Coolbrith. Then there was that rumor that Joseph was Ina's actual father.
@@rainyapril178 I see a lot of Emma in her sons. I am seeing almost nothing in resemblance to this dag though. In every family there will be enough generic variation to reflect characteristics of both parents. I have looked at younger and older images.
Nice insight on Ina, she was a very talented woman. Thank you
@@rainyapril178 All children get exactly one-half of their DNA from each parent. The ovum has one-half of the DNA needed to make a child, and the one particular sperm that wriggles into the ovum also contains exactly one-half of the DNA.
@@sleepycalico Yes, but what I am saying is that the father's DNA is many times the dominant for a daughter, vice versa for a son. You can observe this by how many times a son looks like his mother and the daughter is the image of her father. It appears the DNA dominance crosses over by sex. Going back to Ina Coolbrith: set her picture next to her mother's and see if they look anything alike.
@@rainyapril178 I had to google that. What a cool thing to learn about. What I am reading, though, is that the father's DNA is 60 percent more likely than the mother's to express itself, for both sons and daughters. Maybe the science on this is still evolving. Anyway, thank you! This is just fascinating.
Love John Hamer.
Wow, I can't help thinking that Mr. MacKay still looks a little bit like Joseph. Strong genes.
There are no strong genes, as long as they're working it's perfectly fine. Everything more is wasted
He probably looks older due to premature aging from recurrent sun damage to the skin. Given that sun screen did not exist then, and his extensive time spent outdoors and traveling, I would wager to guess he "looks older" due to what appears to be the sun-damaged, leathery skin. People today fail to realize how much sun damage plays a role in damaging skin and its youthful appearance. When someone "looks older" than they are, the sun, extreme weight loss, or extreme weight gain, are typically the usual suspects. Also going to point out, it looks like he has an underbite.
I think he had something of an overbite, and a weak chin. If we look at his death mask and the side profile portraits
Whoop whoop!
To me this photo doesn't look anything like Joseph Smith painted portraits. Interesting to hear that the death mask matches this photograph according to your experts. I guess I just have to get use to his true face... Good to know.
Sorry, this photo is not Joseph it is Hyrum! Please watch this 3 part series: ua-cam.com/video/o5epan2yGKI/v-deo.html
I think this photo is much more likely to be Hyrum Smith rather than Joseph Smith. I recommend taking a look at the 2 part youtube video that David Lindsley did on this photo. He came to the tentative conclusion that it is Hyrum, not Joseph. The first thing that strikes me is that the eyes don't match up at all with neither the Maudsley portraits nor the paintings of Joseph Smith. Joseph's son Alexander was also said to have had his father's eyes, which are not at all like Emma's. (Similarly with Alexander's brother David Hyrum Smith). The young photos I've seen of Alexander show that he had eyes that do not match this daguerrotype at all, but do match the eyes on Joseph Smith's portraits by Sutcliffe Maudsley. Also the cheekbones don't match. Joseph was said to have had somewhat high and full cheeks, which this daguerrotype image does not have. The features on this daguerrotype match much more closely with Hyrum Smith's portraits and death mask.
David Lindsley also makes a good argument that we do have copies of the original daguerrotype of Joseph: it's the original old photos with the 'crazy hairstyle'. He showed how those photos were not of the painting but the other way around. It's a very interesting 2 part video that I highly recommend watching.
Well, if he "looks like he's in his 40s," he WAS nearly 38.5 when he was killed, which is almost 40.
This topic didn’t really get a lot of traction - the more sunlight it’s received the less excited people seem to be because it is highly unlikely to be a photo of Joseph smith.
Can photos of Joseph Smith’s jr’s remains be used in the verification process?
To be honest, I don't see that this really "changes" anything about the LDS church. Yeah, it's a purported picture of Joseph Smith, and apparently his wife thought his portrait wasn't entirely accurate,but...it's just a picture. I don't think it really proves or disproves that the church is true.
It has no effect on the truth claims of Mormonism. It’s just an interesting historical artefact.
If that’s Joseph Smith my name is Bob Newhart. And my name isn’t Bob Newhart.
@18:06 smith was tarred and feathered and in one case has a chipped tooth, so it would make sense that he may have had that detail in the photo. Cool! I do wonder however if this could be a photo of Hyrum Smith however, because why would Joseph Smith carry on a photo of himself… I think he would have more than likely carried one of his favorite brother Hyrum and it seems to me it could be him because he was more stoic and serious than Joseph Smith.
Reminds me more of Brigham Young’s line…
I have posted links to several of the Reddit Mormon groups, including r/CommunityOfChrist, r/MormonScholar, and r/Mormon.
Thanks!
@@MormonBookReviews I am so excited by your work. Now that I have moved back to Lamoni, I am working as a volunteer docent at Liberty Hall, JS III's Lamoni home.
I met Israel A. Smith and W. Wallace Smith, two of the Smith boys who lived there.
History is a wonderful endeavor around which to build community. I hope our paths cross before long.
I wouldn't recommend posting to those subreddits, as they are either inactive (the first two) or largely anti-Mormon (the latter one). I would recommend instead r/latterdaysaints and r/lds, which are more popular
@@scottcox503 I appreciate the advice. I tried posting to others but for some reason the post didn't take at a couple of the ones you mention.
@@n.brucenelson5920 maybe they are reposts
Hey, I enjoyed watching your videos! Are you in audea btw?
My intuition says it's him, but it is best to remain skeptical until the evidence is all but certain. (The portrait artist didn't quite capture him, either intentionally or not--something about the eyes is wrong--but other aspects are so very, very close, down to the lines in his face. The little mark between his eyebrows has me all but convinced.) Like they mentioned here, the portrait artist might have altered features to make him look his best; the eyes in the portrait look less squinty, and his mouth is smaller.
Cool interview. Does anyone know how to access the article online?
There's a link in the description to subscribe to the journal
@@MormonBookReviews thank you!
I am not sold yet the photo is that of Joseph Smith.
Perhaps Hyrum Smith, his brother
Because... (what's the point of that comment)
Steven chasing the prize
It’s him
Brilliant video! So interesting! Thank- You!
Picture or not. I still have a testimony in the Book of Mormon.
Then you should stay off the internet. Because there is 'stuff' out there that might disturb your testimony.
Where can I find the article being referenced?
There is a link to the JWHA website in the description
He was what, 37 or 38?! It’s not a problem that he “looks 40”!!
He probably didn't age well considering what seems like a very stressful life
It has been analyzed since to actually be Hyrum Smith. That makes more sense to me and resembles the death mask and paintings more like Hyrum. It would make sense that they would have some similarities in countenance.
I will be releasing a video tomorrow with a researcher who shows that it is most likely Joseph Smith
@@MormonBookReviews I viewed it and must say it is very compelling evidence that it is Joseph. Thanks for a great and very detailed video.
The line above the nose. It's a dead giveaway.
Ariah Coates Brower was involved in making the death mask for Joseph and his brother. Has anyone reached out to his family members for verification on this photo?
Didn't they do expert analysis on the last photo they thought was Joseph Smith with a higher probability it being him?? It's been years but that's what I remember.
If Joseph smith was tarde and feathered could that cause the facial differences, and making him look older .
The small vertical scar above the nose found on both the photo and painting of him proves the photo is authentic.
i am still sceptical the guy looks in his late 50s
I don't think so. He isn't grey-haired or wrinkled or anything. I have met 39-year-olds who look older than that.
QUESTION: How might I read the article. Is it online someplace? Is there a link?
Brother Laughlin sounds like he has a cold today.
Am hoping he is well enough.
If the photo is of Joseph, not fully convinced, the portrait would be one of the worst likeness resemblenses.
Gents: Where do we think this was taken? Do we know what the genetic fingerprint was likely to be (based on that of known descendants) for Joseph Smith? Was there German in his background or was the Smith name strictly English?
I'm not Mormon but I have Smiths on my mother's side that were from Pennsylvania. I, too, noticed those same piercing ice blue eyes.
I know they're good football players. Oh wait, that's Brigham Young. Sorry.
@@ericgutierrez2936 Very good, Eric. Steve was not bad, but he was no average Joe (wait for it!!)_Montana. He was a chicken-wing lefty, but he could sure run with the ball. Cheers (no alcohol, please!!).
Joseph’s ancestors were mostly English, with distant German and Scottish ancestors. Analysis of his DNA haplogroup indicates an Irish origin-but that would be very very ancient
The thing is 95% is not a close match to the death mask. Compare the oil painting made when he was alive to the death mask and it will be 99% match.
First thing I noticed in comparison to oil painting, is earlobes ... they are not the same; I don't believe that is a detail that is missed by whoever did the oil painting.
Great news for the LDS Church.
And all of the other Branches of the Restoration!
It looks nothing like the death mask. The orbital bone, the nose’s tip and bridge, cheekbones. All the forced similarities are just affirming the consequent.
Looks nothing like the death mask, either one or the other is not him
Painters like to “lie” a little.
Ive never been worried about how JS looked like as I believe the best thing he did and still does today is bring people to Yeshua through what he translated. From the data you shared here and responding to the popular rebutals Im sold.
The best thing JS did was come back to Cathage.
Sadly Joe was a skilled conman….🔮
It's cute that you use Yeshua, since Joseph couldn't speak any ancient language and messed up a lot of ancient terms such as brother Raca, Jesus Christ the Messiah, Jehova or King Pharao.
@@charlesmendeley9823 as the title page from the gold plates states translated by a gentile
@@StevenRetz But he translated the Book of Mormon by putting his seer stone in a hat and reading off the perfect translation given to him by God word for word.
Really, I mean Really.
Who wrote the Book of Mormon.
That is not Joseph Smith's pic. He w me
Not convinced
His death mask shows Joseph Smith having defined checks and a narrow face. Portraits of him show how he combed his hair. This picture if him on a locket has a very flat face with no definition of cheeks and his hair is thicker and not cut and combed like the portraits. Also JS nose has a round tip to his nose in contrast to this man's. You must look at the death mask to see true comparisons!
This looks more like John Jacob Jingleheimer Smith
I believe this is Hyrum Smith.
Why the heck would Joseph Smith's granddaughter, whose family stayed in Nauvoo, keep a photo of Hyrum Smith?
Is there that much inyetest in this charleten?
It seems far more plausible to me that it is the younger Sidney Rigdon. He was an early convert and leader of the "restored" Church in 1830.
I keep telling myself that as soon as someone comes up with a Real photograph of Joseph I'll go back to church.
it is still a false church!!
@@hollayevladimiroff131 Don't go saying that out loud!
so ... someone claims this is a photo of smith.
must be true.
awww....someone's mad about the Community of Christ upstaging the LDS church again. lol
@@thelastgoonie6555 not mad in the least.
just using common sense.
you might want to try it,
instead of making asinine comments.
there is zero evidence this is smith.
it might be.
it might not be.
i don't care either way.
but the simple fact is there is zero proof either way.
@@grayman7208 Mosiah chapter 8 lays out exactly how we can know. RMN is a Seer is he not? He even has the peep stone.
Has it occurred to anyone else how this photo is THE perfect metaphor? The church has sold us a gussied up, perfect image of Joseph Smith, but when we get the true picture, it's not what we were sold.
I just leaned back in my chair and said "daaaamn" your exactly right, I converted to the LDS church and was sold a bad bill of goods. im curious tho, are you talkng about COC or LDS church?
@@jessea2871 I am saying it as a former believer in LDS. COC seems to have a more nuanced attitude towards him, but I don't know that much about them.
@@senorbb2150 are you aware, I'm not 100% on this, that COC believes that Joseph wasn't a polygamist? That's a bit more than nuanced. There is a theory that BY started the whole thing and retroactively made Joseph out to be the one that restored the practice. I'm not entirely sure what COC position is.
If he'd really been a prophet we'd expect something like a perfect statue made from supergold, preserving an old semi-photo isn't very godly. So yeah he keeps being a disappointment, that's his real archetype ^_^
Wouldn’t Emma have gotten her photo done at the same time?
There wasn't room for everyone.
@@annwood6812 I mean like why wouldn’t we have a photo of Emma before Joseph’s death not like of them together.
No...Emma was his 23rd wife--and not even his favorite.
@@thelastgoonie6555 false. Emma was his one and only wife.
@The Last Goonie she was his ONLY wife, as he and she said. Don't believe the lies
My family’s connection with Mormonism goes back to the beginning. My 5th cousin 7 times removed, George Washington Robinson, was a scribe for Joseph Smith, writing down his prophecies in 1838.
George Robinson was excommunicated in 1842 when he spoke out against Joseph Smith’s attempted to seduce 19 year old Nancy Rigdon. Smith snared her in his upstairs office in Navoo, Illinois. When he tried to convince her that she was destined to be one of his 34 wives she said “if you don’t let me out now I’m going to scream.” Smith opened the door.
Here’s a story:
“My friend, General George W. Robinson, once related to me a curious circumstance, which occurred in Missouri,
when he was clerk of the Church. One day, Joe, the Prophet, was gravely dictating to him a revelation which he had just received from the Lord. Robinson, according to custom, wrote down the very words the Lord spoke to Joe,
and in the exact order in which the latter heard them. He had written for some considerable time, when Smith's in-
spiration began to flag, and, to gain breath, he requested Robinson to read over what he had written. He did so
until he came to a particular passage, when Smith interrupted him, and desired to have that read again. Robinson
complied, and Smith, shaking his head, and knitting his brows, said " That will never do. You must alter that, George."
Robinson, though not a little surprised at the LORD’S blunder did as he was directed, and changed the offensive passage into one more fit for the inspection of the Gentiles.”
THE HISTORY OF THE SAINTS ; OR,
AN EXPOSE OF JOE SMITH AND MORMONISM
BY
JOHN C. BENNETT 1842
John C Bennett has been proven to be a liar.
You believe Bennett??? Over Joseph?
Not to be a party pooper BUT the painting and the pic don't look alike to me. The eyes, eyebrows , hairstyle ,etc.
And which of his children even remotely resemble that pic? None. The emperor has no clothes.
Lol
So they PAINTING would be more accurate...? I think you're letting emotion influence you if that is your reasoning. I bet you FEEL better about the LDS portrayal that Emma was Joseph's only wife as well.
@@thelastgoonie6555 No, i just think that as daguerreotypes go? I tilt toward the one revealed by S Michael Tracy as most likely the Prophet Joseph
The Mormon Church always made him look better than he was.
Joseph was downright ugly, in my opinion. The “photo” looks more human and better.
Even when I was a TBM I did not trust the death mask as authentic or accurate . Something about it just seems odd to me no logical reason really. Similar to believing the BOM is an historical record
might be Hyrum Smith
Also, selling merchandise while affiliating yourself with the Lords church is called “priestcraft”, the Lord hates Priestcraft.
Then I guess Deseret Book should stop selling books by General Authorities
@@ningenJMK take it for what it’s worth. What Deseret Book does is of no concern of mine. I only know what the Lord has emphasized repeatedly in the Book of Mormon. I’m simply warning you. Consider yourself warned. Also, the general authorities don’t see a dime if they Money. It’s property of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
@@jasonjohnson2767 oh dear. Poor Jason. Doesn't know about Deutero-Isaiah
@@ningenJMK Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference April 1948
"There are those today who seem to take pride in disagreeing with the orthodox teachings of the Church and who present their own opinions which are at variance with the revealed truth. Some may be partially innocent in the matter; others are feeding their own egotism; and some seem to be deliberate. Men may think as they please, but they have no right to impose upon others their unorthodox views. Such persons should realize that their own souls are in jeopardy. The Lord said to us through the Prophet Joseph: ". . . teach the principles of my gospel, which are in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, in the which is the fulness of the gospel. And they shall observe the covenants and church articles to do them, and these shall be their teachings, as they shall be directed by the Spirit.. . . And if ye receive not the Spirit ye shall not teach." (D&C 42:12-14)
The great objective of all our work is to build character and increase faith in the lives of those whom we serve. If one cannot accept and teach the program of the Church in an orthodox way without reservations, he should not teach. It would be the part of honor to resign his position. Not only would he be dishonest and deceitful, but he is also actually under condemnation, for the Savior said that it were better that a millstone were hanged about his neck and he be cast into the sea than that he should lead astray doctrinally or betray the cause or give offense, destroying the faith of one of "these little ones" who believe in him. And remember that this means not only the small children, it includes even adults who believe and trust in God...
The Savior also said: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matt. 10:28)
In our own Society, the murderer who kills the body is hunted, imprisoned, and executed, but the character who kills the soul by implanting doubt and shattering faith is permitted not only to go free but also is often retained in high places. The body which is killed will rise again in the resurrection with little damage to its eternal welfare, but he whose faith has been shattered may suffer long ages before complete restoration of spiritual stature can be had, if at all."
Sorry, that's not Joseph Smith Jr. in the photo, it doesn't resemble his death mask or sketches and drawings of him, it's some other dude.
The death mask was of a dead person. The body changes after death. Many death masks are taken while the subjects are living.
the tip of the nose is completely different between the death mask and the newly found photo.
That is not Joseph. Look up the photo taken from his death mask. Not some random man.
Read the article. Read the article. It's all in the article. You can't have an informed conversation until you pay $35 for my pdf... i mean, read the article. After 2 years of work, I concluded yes it's Joseph Smith. I would certainly say after 2 years of work if I ever realized I was wrong. Did I mention there is 2 years of footnotes in my article?
It’s disappointing the article or a summary of it is not made available for free as part of the interview. As I said, it feels like a mark Hoffman scam.
You have just listened for free to a concise but thorough description of the provenance and analysis of the photo. If you want to know more then buy the journal. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
@@debbieshrubb1222 I’ll pass. I don’t believe the image is Joseph Smith.
@@Heartsinmelody I refuse to view the evidence - my mind's made up!
@@n.brucenelson5920 not at all, I’m simply not going to pay for the journal article. It will become free on the internet soon anyway. Then I’m happy to read it. I’ve listened to the arguments here, I am just not convinced it is JS. If it is great, but I won’t need to pay money to find out.
Ewwww masons
👌🏽
Joseph Smith was a freemason, that's true.
@@charlesmendeley9823 Not only a Freemason but a treasure digger, a shaman, and a conman….🤭😂.
We have his face mask...this looks nothing like it. There is nothing groundbreaking about the mis-identified photo. What is wrong with you people?
Some Mark Hoffman vibes here. I wonder how soon before they try to sell it to the LDS church millions. $$
And the LDS church can afford it, having a shopping mall and hundreds of millions of dollars.
@@charlesmendeley9823 yes, but they will likely be careful now buying forgeries after what happened with Hofmann.
@@Heartsinmelody Both Mark Hoffman and the guy that filmed all temple ceremonies shows that spiritual discernment within the Church is a lie.
@@charlesmendeley9823 haha hardly. It shows that people are dishonest. It’s not a rule that God will always stop someone seeking to deceive, nor that some enter temples that shouldn’t - news flash, it happens. Not sure why you’d assume such a premise.
The Community of Christ. Now that’s a growing church. 😅
Can't wait until the Mormon Church finds a photo of the Angel Macaroni! Pray 🙏 ✝️