Unfair blame for "go to sleep!" when the previous games have that just as often... the protagonist just thinks it to himself instead :/ 🎮TWITCH: www.twitch.tv/ladyvirgilia 🐤TWITTER: @VirgiliaLady twitter.com/VirgiliaLady 🌟PATREON: www.patreon.com/LadyVirgilia GENSHIN CHANNEL~ ua-cam.com/users/LadyVirgiliaGenshin
*Ryuji and Morgana in their last stand against Yaldaboth* Ryuji: never thought I’d die fighting alongside a cat Morgana: I am NOT a cat! I am your friend! Ryuji: eh I could do that
I’m higher on Morgana than I think most fans are. Like, I’ve always found it endearing just how earnest and interested Morgana is when it comes to new things, whether it’s a new item at a restaurant or DVDs you can rent. His little comments just add something to the experience for me. And his struggle with his self-image and body is super interesting since that stuff doesn’t come up that often with male characters in this genre. Plus, he’s always in Ren’s corner or bag ig lol, and that means a lot considering just how many people are rooting against Ren, especially early on. Another aspect that I like about Morgana is that he wears his heart on his sleeve. One example is his initial persona, Zorro, which is just this strong hero that Morgana fashion himself as. It’s so clear through that and other actions that he thinks of himself as uniquely awesome and capable. When that image starts to fall apart, Morgana so desperately tries to preserve it, and that is such a profoundly human thing to do. And the reality is he can’t hold on to that image because the PTs are getting stronger and smarter, but, more importantly, he doesn’t need to because it’s unreasonable to think that you can always be the greatest at what you’re doing. That’s why I really appreciate how his arc ends with him separating his self-worth from his work and being comfortable with his body. Ngl, my first thought when it came to human Morgana was “why couldn’t this be a thing in P5D 😂?” On a more serious note though, it reminded me that Morgana’s lived experience as a cat is different but cool in its own way. I mean, he’s a talking cat who can transform into a bus. It’s pretty awesome how he stands out tbh, and it’s cool to hear that you could relate to Morgana in that section. Also, it’s neat that this video has CCs.
You know, that's a great point about Mona being that one companion we can count on during a time where everyone else is so hostile or dismissive of Joker. I like how Zorro symbolizes Mona's early facade too. Someday I'll get to analyzing the P5 cast's personas in the same way I did for P3 lol. It's definitely understandable why it's hard to separate self-worth with work/school/whatever we do in life. It's such an important lesson to learn though, and I like how Mona's arc explores that just generally. Working on CC'ing all the scripted videos slowly but surely~ More accessibility STRONK!
Mona being in Ren’s corner, huh? (Personal opinion contains spoilers): If only Maruki was in Sumire’s corner properly, but… how can he be in her corner to help with her personal trauma when he can’t even cope with his own trauma himself? I am glad Ren was in Sumire’s corner during 3rd Semester and her entire confidant. She needed it more than most.
I never understood why people hate Morgana. He’s a very enduring character especially toward game end. I named my cat after him because the original name of my cat was Sojigner or wanderer fits Morgana pretty well.
With how much the fandom shits on Morgana, this video is very refreshing. He's my favourite character and an essay on his perspective surrounding the argument mid game is very nice to see.
I can see some people's gripes with Morgana, but I just never was fully on board with it. As you said in the video, he's at most 3 years old. Intellectually, he's on par with some of the thieves, maybe not Makoto or Futaba levels, but higher than Ryuji. But experience-wise, he's not even close, and not just because of his amnesia. Most teens on some level know how to deal with crushes who don't like them back. Plus there's how excited he was about Dome Town before Akechi showed up. Honestly, before Royal, I always pictured that if he got a human form, it would be that of like a pre-teen instead of the same age as the other thieves. On a personal level, I can sympathize with Morgana's third-semester storyline. I have both dyslexia and ADHD, and while it's not the same as being a cat in a human world, it can be annoying to be neurodivergent. I never knew a time where I didn't read slowly, when I didn't struggle to do things I have no interest in, or when crowded areas didn't push me closer to a meltdown if I didn't have earbuds to block out the sound. My dad claims to have ADHD as well, but apparently, he can muscle through it and tried to pass that philosophy onto me. Meanwhile, my younger brother never had to deal with it. There are times when I wish that my brain functioned normally, where I could just sit down and skim a boring text without being distracted. But then I remember all the things I learned because of the way my brain works, and I know I wouldn't change it for the world.
Thanks for sharing about your experience living with ADHD and dyslexia. My disease makes many things about life difficult, but I too, value all the things I've learned because of it, and I wouldn't change that for anything.
Morgana (Mona) is my favorite P5 character. I ADORE him so much, from his personality, English voice, design, I think he is the best Persona mascot. My lil’ boy has never been annoying, he’s so cute. Thanks for doing this video!
Morgana is best cat. This video is really well done and I'm glad it exists because then I don't have to do the explaining myself as to why I think he's a really well-written character.
Morgana is an interesting twist on the non-human party member. In P4, Teddie was able to become human, while Morgana did not. However, their spiritual journey allowed them to accept themselves, that's what matters most. On a personal level, I liked Morgana. Since he was a healer, that meant he was on my permanent party throughout my first playthrough. I slowly started to phase him out during my second as I got more used to my party member's powers, but he came back with Debilitate from the Jazz cafe to fight the toughest boss in the game: Lavenza. The biggest effect Morgana had on the Phantom Thieves was is knowledge of the Metaverse. Like you pointed out in the Akechi video: if it weren't for Mona telling the thieves about calling cards and treasure and changes of heart, the Phantom Thieves may have very well resorted to killing the palace rulers to save themselves. Mona's presence saved them from being Black Mask 2.0.
Time for a big comment again. First, my general thoughts on Morgana. A lot of people hold "go to bed" against him, but I played with a guide during my first playthrough so that was never a problem. There's his simping to Ann, to the point where some fans romance her just to spite him. I think it can be annoying but it never got TOO excessive. (cough Persona Q Teddie cough) I think I'm biased towards him because I really like cats so I find the idea of a cat companion for the MC relatable, and a lot of his flaws are things I know well as a cat owner. Cats are biologically tsundere, no exceptions. Ever since Koromaru I've wanted a cat Persona user, and... admittedly I would've preferred a real one to a cartoon mascot. I feel like since Teddie, "obligatory cute mascots" have become a thing in Persona, and they've retroactively tried to fit Koromaru into that, but what made Koro-chan so great (at least to me) is he was just a normal dog who happened to be a Persona user. No "Look at me! Look at me! I'm a loveable cartoon mascot!" So overall I don't love Morgana, but I don't hate him either. I'm neutral, and that's not a common opinion. This is some great analysis for Mona and it's a lot I never really noticed even playing though this game twice, like the fact that he's no more than 3 years old mentally. (Reminds me of a certain Tales Of character who's an immature brat but turns out to literally be a child with a late-teen's body, making all his earlier moments go from annoying to tragic) Mona's feelings of uselessness and wanting to prove his worth to others is something I identify with a lot. Another interesting example of this archetype is... it's another Tales Of character but it'd be a spoiler to say their name. They deconstruct the "Butt Monkey" trope in that they legit betray the party on one story path, partly due to being treated like a joke and having their serious mental issues ignored. It's basically Mona's actions in the Okumura arc taken to the extreme, and he dies for it. (Admittedly I wish this was more tied to how you treat them in gameplay, what actually controls it is picking the guest character as the MC's "closest person") Speaking of Mona in that arc... the scene where he finally spills his feelings is legit one of my favourites in P5, and the payoff at the end of the Palace is a great moment for him. I think the reason why it's so divisive is because it steals the spotlight from Haru in what's supposed to be HER arc, and she's a character who was already under-developed and in desperate need of more screentime. Like, what if Royal's new Palace ended with a big Makoto moment? Or if Sae's Palace turned out to be about Ryuji? It'd be awkward, and that's exactly what happens here. So in short, Mona in the Okumura arc: good development for him... bad timing for the story. I grew up a little before the smartphone generation, so phones aren't completely natural for me. Thoughts on Mona's human form? Eh. To me it always felt more like the punchline to a joke, rather than a comment on the character's development like everyone else in Maruki's reality. I do like how the English dub is bugged and uses his cat voice when talking to him in the overworld, it adds to the feeling that something's "not right" with Maruki's reality and the old world is bleeding through. An example of an unintended glitch that accidentally enhances the world-building. I dunno if anyone else thinks that. It was nice to hear you relate your experiences to Human Mona though. We take so many of our body's functions for granted, more people need to realize not everyone has that luxury.
Always appreciate your long, thoughtful comments! I don't mind Morgana as our talking mascot, but now that you bring up Koromaru, it really would've been a breath of fresh air to have just a normal animal companion. Especially since we got Teddie in just the last entry. And yeah, I can see why Mona left a bad taste for many players after stealing the spotlight from Haru. I agree that Mona's part in the 3rd semester has the least to dissect out of the entire cast. Definitely treated as more of a punchline. Yeah I'm trying to be a bit more personal in these videos. Thanks for the support~
@@LadyVirgilia To me, Koromaru was cute because he was a normal pet. They didn't try to "force" cuteness with him, at least not in the original game. Morgana's still okay though, and his comments while you're exploring the city add a bit to things compared to P3 and 4's bodiless narration.
@@makotoamamiya2442 For vanilla, the one I used was actually made by KillScottKill. It never needed to rent a DVD so I didn't have to worry about Morgana forcing late fees. For Royal I generally use the A.C.E (All Confidant Events) one on Game FAQs.
In regards to his relationship with Ryuji people really need to understand the difference between what he does and what Ryuji does. When he's critical of Ryuji it's for areas they both know Ryuji needs to work on, but he NEVER digs at a sore spot like Ryuji's broken leg and there are geuniune moments where they are chill around each other throughout the game too plus sometimes he has perfect justification to be critical but does'nt take it like when Makoto busted them. Ryuji on the other hand digs at every single one of Morgana's sore spots from the moment they meet, that's why they start off on such a bad foot and to be honest Ryuji's a bit of a whiner in the beginning of the game. I really enjoy his charachter but I could certainly see why Morgana would get frustrated with the kid. He's much more gentle and nice to not just Ann but literally everyone else on the team because they respect his boundaries and have the paitence to actually listen to him. Ryuji is not the only reason for what happens in the okumura arc, but he does share ALOT of the blame for it and people really need to stop ignoring Ryuji's own role in it. Their all to happy to blow up Morgana's negativie traits while ignoring the positive ones. Plus in terms of ego he's no where near as bad as say Seto Kaiba or Vegeta yet those two are considered popluar charachters. Inspite of his ego he's a geninuely good person who's very loyal and can be real sweet too. He's level headed with a strong sense of what's right and even in the face of something 10x bigger than him he's not afraid to call it out on it's bullshit which is oh so fun to watch. Also Morgana is very smart sure he goes on hunches but he's always dead on with them and he really needs to be since he was created to be the guide for Joker after all. Don't forget that he contributes as much to the plan to outsmart Akechi as Makoto and Futaba do, not only the obvious but he's the first to get suspicous and is the one to come up with the idea to tap Akechi's phone. Morgana is my favorite charachter from persona 5 royal I believe he has some of the best development in the game and they make sure to have it stick through to strikers as well. And it's very refreshing that in a time where people obsess about realisim so much that the writers of the game decided NOT to let him be human and instead let him be special in his own unique way. That is a big reason why I don't know if I'll play persona 4, I HATE when a non human charachter get's turned human.
Saying that Kuma gets "turned human" is a stretch. He gains the external appearance of one, but not the actual biology, and if anything a sometimes frustratingly small portion of the behavior. Whether pre or post transformation, he's an entirely unique sort of being, and that fact doesn't always manifest itself in positive ways.
@@TheWolfgangGrimmer When I made this comment I only knew about the point where Teddie becomes human and did'nt know if he was playable before this happened. The reason I get so mad at a non human charachter becoming one is because most of the time the charachter starts out weak in that form but suddenly become powerful simply from being turned human. In worlds where magic and such exist I find that to be a very lazy way to power up the non human charachter. Plus in their normal form they bring variety to a cast. However since I made this comment I've seen more footage of the game and when they came to switch the reveal trailer showed footage of Teddie in the party at what seemed to be pretty early in the game. So my interest in 4 has gotten pretty high enough to consider buying it.
@@Cloud-dt6xb He is technically only playable after, but that's because of his Persona awakening a few days prior, not much to do with his physical transformation. More importantly, and like I already mentioned, he's nothing much like a human at all aside from his outer shell. He doesn't actually have human muscles or bone structures, and in fact it is shown that he cannot be analyzed by conventional hospital equipment such as X-ray machines. Although, again, sometimes he acts in ways that are so irritating that it makes me wish he _were_ more human in character. In fact he's easily my least favorite member of the party.
When morgana is mentioned, he is often compared to the other mascots, especially teddie, and i have to say something about the matter. I like them both. Sure, everyone seems to hate the bear puns, but i really don’t mind them. I think that’s because i was a part of the undertale community at it’s height, and considering what people like to do with sans, i was basically taught that puns aren’t bad. This has allowed me to look past the puns and look at teddie as a character - and what i see is a lonely child that has been alone for all his life, that now finally gets to be around people and loves every second of it. There is honestly so much to discuss with teddie - the way his character arc fits perfectly with the themes of the game, the way he models his personality after the first humans he’s encountered (which includes yosuke and shadow yukiko, so that explains a lot), his connection with nanako, there is so much good here that people just ignore because “stupid bear make bad pun and be horny“. Honestly, teddie deserves way more love. Same goes for morgana. He has a solid, understandable character arc and a well defined personality. There’s a lot to love here - his little comments on everything you do, his unwavering support, his bond with the thieves, his persona symbolism (zorro represents morgana’s desire to be a real human and a great hero, while mercurius represents morgana finding his true purpose as a guide for the thieves and all humanity). However, people ignore all this because “simp cat bully ryuji and tell you go to bed“. Honestly, i could write essays on both of them. Also, fun fact i noticed: both teddie and morgana fulfill similar roles in combat - they both are powerful magic users and are healers. If the same was true for koromaru or aigis, i would definitely call it a pattern.
I don't like teddie because In P4 he actually gets better at the end but in every other spin off he is so annoying i hate him in PQ games and P4AU so much Now Morgana he is truly one of the best P5 characters that people hate thanks to unfunny jokes of people that din't got the character at all or the Persona fans that never played Persona and only know Joker from Smash
When I got on the subreddit after playing P5 for the first time, I never understood the reasoning why so many hated him. And your video pretty much sums up my thoughts on why I like Mona.
Was wondering when we'd get a Morgana video. Honestly I find people really exaggerate the hate on the furball to unnecessary levels as they take his flaws way too seriously at face value without looking too deep into it as you have laid out here as they are pretty much intentional and the point as a necessary negative for his growth as a character. His dynamic with Ryuji has always been a comedic vitriolic snarky relationship which isn't even anything new to Persona or other media as you see it in sitcom arch rivalries between characters like Zoro and Sanji from One Piece for example. Morgana did believe himself to be originally human hence him believing to have a shot with Ann probably as his way in maintaining that he must be human if he can fall for a human female rather than a female feline. As you mentioned it's not just a lack of memories, identity and sense of self, place to belong but it's also a sense of purpose as he really has nothing other than become human again and when that is thrown into question with doubt, it naturally makes Morgana angst hard. His conceited braggadocious attitude really is just a front as a way to seek out validation because all he really has is how "useful" he is with his skills and knowledge of the Metaverse and how to be a Phantom Thief without that he has nothing to show for himself to identify him. So when Ryuji called him "useless" it actually unintentionally hit harder than the average person as that pretty much called Morgana's entire existence into question. Not helping that Ryuji called the cat "useless" about THREE TIMES which is about the same amount as Makoto being called "useless" but through different people. It's a recurring pattern how our many characters in P5 desperately yearn to be acknowledged and needed by others from our main cast to side characters so that insult touches a nerve. As much as Morgana asserts that he has a "deal" with Ren and the others as they are a means to an end for each other for their goals, deep down Morgana is very lonely and has become very attached to the gang as they are the only humans he can communicate with and have any form of a place to call home to, so he also has the problem of admitting such vulnerability to himself and to the others out of pride in taking such an emotional burden on himself hence him bottling up such issues without properly confiding in anyone. So it means a lot in how he loses his place in the team because he has no where else to turn. Angst isn't supposed to look pretty as the real ugly part of people come out where you lash out, are irrational, stubborn to listen to reason and become sensitive to anything remotely that adds fuel to your inner turmoil. It's similar to how Junpei felt in being overshadowed and left in the dust by his teammates with the fear of losing his place to belong leaving him to confront how much of a "loser" he is in reality with not much of a purpose in life which leads to him trying hard to prove himself with heroic bravado with a chip on his shoulder. I feel like Morgana usually being benched by players is very much an intentional part of the gameplay tying into the story of Morgana feeling "useless" as he is a squishy wizard compared to when other characters join they have an impressive skillset and his other teammates learn better skills especially Joker where with his Wildcard ability he can fuse Personas that can take over Morgana's role of being a Garu user, Healer and Lucky/Miracle Punch critical hit dealer. So when later in the story when Morgana leaves the team but then re-ignites his passion and rejoins the Phantom Thieves, he learns his third level Garu skills faster than any other character, and his magic stat skyrockets, letting him do much more damage much sooner than almost any other character. Out of all Magicians and non human characters, Morgana's story does it very well in keeping with the archetypal theme. It's a shame not many will understand such nuance. When you think about it, his arc is pretty relatable to many people IRL than we are willing to admit (minus the supernatural aspect of course). Magician arcana characters will probably forever be a divisive bag for people because they really don't pull any punches in showing VERY human flaws which aren't supposed to be "likeable" and "endearing".
Thanks for this beefy comment lol. I wholeheartedly agree with everything, and do want to say I hadn't even noticed Mona's magic stat growth before and after that arc. That's a really cool thing and I thank you for pointing it out!
Added more for something usually overlooked. Morgana got mentally stung by other members as well, not just Ryuji, one is the scene before the hawaii trip when Ann saying that Morgana being "cute" is enough, which to him implying that his most redeemable feature that he's cute, at least to him. Another scene during the Hawaii trip Futaba have a conversation with Morgana in which she said "Couldn't you assuming that (about Morgana being human), I had the wrong assumptions about my mom for the longest time" in which even more tax in mentally. Morgana insecurities are about: 1/ Him not being human and 2/ Him feeling unworthy to the team. Not only that if you pay attention to the phone massaging, Morgana at the moment felt heavily left out while the group chatting through phone. It's weird whenever it's bring up it's always about "Ryuji called Morgana useless one". IMO to call the whole circumstances like that is extremely lackluster perceptive. This arc had little to do with "Ryuji and Morgana" alone but rather "Morgana with the whole team". Ryuji started the fire doesn't mean it's the only reason for the whole thing. Morgana also NEVER condemn Ryuji or even asked him for apology at all.
Morgana was literally my MVP Bro Btw yeah, he is truly overhated and i feel like It was just a herd effect, because people started hating him because of people making "Go to sleep funny1!1!1!1! Annoying" "Morgana Ann Simphahaha" and "He calls Ryuji Stupid he is such a horrible person, (not like there is a lot of characters like that in media such as Vegeta, Zoro or Sanji)" memes So people started hating Morgana because of these dumb memes and since we all know that most P5 fans din't actually played the game(afther the community growed thanks to Smash) people bashed Morgana because they only knew him from the memes or they played the game and look every character in a shallow way Honestly he is one of the best P5 characters, because besides his desing and everything else he is probably the most realistic character in the main cast along with Ryuji and Ann and i really appreciate his development
Funny thing is morgana was my permanent healer for most of my p5r gameplay (i never played base plus i got it on switch). Sadly i couldnt use him for the final boss of the 3rd semester no spoilers ofc
This is the first vid I've watched from your channel, and I am so impressed! You brought up a ton of points about Mona I've never thought about (Mona's age, his lack of interaction with humans, seeing the other PT's overcome adversity, etc.) and everything makes a lot of sense. Looking forward to future vids! :)
I really like Morgana. Persona 5 wouldn't be nearly as interesting if he wasn't always around to react to the world around Joker and gradually learn about how humans work to frame the themes of the story.
Despite being an anthropomorphic cat his story arc of letting go of his personal narratives is super relatable and probably the one that has to furthest reach amongst the fan base. Ironically, it's a very human feeling. Some narratives that we internalize include the notion of being successful straight out of college and finding love and settling down without doing the personal work. Morgana's arc is a microcosm of the adolescent experience and learning that not everything is about you.
I actually felt really bad for Morgana when he and Ryuji had that argument before the 5th palace, like yes it was a little painful to watch but that's why I felt bad for him. That looming feeling of being replaced by people who are better than you and feeling useless as a result is something that I've dealt with myself many times and seeing how upset he was for feeling that way really resonated with me. It's the reason why I've struggled to make long-term friends most of my life because I always felt like they "didn't need me" which is why they never stuck around. Fortunately I was able to find a group of friends in which I belong and I'm really grateful for them. I think it should also be mentioned that Morgana is the manifestation of the last traces of human hope. It's a little hard for me to come to a proper analysis on this particular subject at the moment but I think it should be talked about a bit more because... I mean, Morgana didn't remember this at all, but imagine being the literal manifestation of hope and people think they don't even need you. I'd be a little upset as well to be honest.
exactly this for me as well. I wanna add tho that seeing a character like Morgana that you can really relate to and see yourself in being completely shit on by 90% of the internet feels really bad tbh
I would argue the first foreshadow towards his little escapade is actually tied into gameplay in the 3rd Palace. It's right around there the game started dropping shadows with no weaknesses in your way while also giving you the technical attack tutorial, a first time player's signal that nuclear synergizes with both lightning AND fire, when wind only techs off of burns. This in addition to Makoto coming equipped with healing and a buff make her perfect to slot into the support role in combat that Morgana had been in up till that point. Where before you might've learned about his synergy with Ann to produce tech knock downs or, more likely, were using his lucky punch when you didn't have the right element to knock an enemy, now Makoto facilitates that even better.
I know I am late, but as someone who suffers from chronic exhaustion who has to sleep at least 16 hours a day, I can relate to wanting to go back to being able bodied, as well as able minded. Longcovid gave me brainfog that just doesn't let up, and since then I have been unable to do anything outside of my lessons. It's isolating in a unique way, and people who do not have a disability often fail to understand just how isolating it is.
Fantastic video! You really articulated well how Morgana's circumstances feed into his insecurities. And how he's mentally a child, that's something people tend to overlook when judging his interactions. The Royal section of the video hit hard as well. Long-ish comment incoming: I never understood the fanbase's utter vitriol and fury for this cute cat character. I feel like Mona was the biggest victim of the memes surrounding the Okumura arc, simping for Ann and being told to go to bed - the persona fandom's hot takes seem to be influenced the most by these generic meme criticisms or whatever. For example, there is plenty of (believable) buildup to his reaction during Haru's arc but people will still insist there was none. Like, sometimes characters in stories act out of frustration or make mistakes and are supposed to have flaws but to a lot of people this is just unacceptable and a sign of bad writing (I'm talking in general here, not just persona, though it does have very widespread "I haven't payed attention to anything" takes). Could his arc in the sixth palace have been done better? Yeah, honestly the biggest gripe I have with it is that it's a tiny bit too cliche for my liking (I feel like if the part where they try to apologize in mementos and he rejects them was removed, and fused with the next scene, it could've flown way better imo). But I see it akin to a mediocre episode of a long show - it's not that big of a deal lol. The amount of people taking two scenes from this arc and using it against both Ryuji and Morgana even though they make up in the end is frustrating tho, ngl. And the "Haru screentime" argument, good grief. She's my favorite female party member and even I got over it. While we're at it, Kasumi's little awakening adventure just so happens to freeze the plot and occur right in the middle of Haru's arc but I didn't see anyone complaining about her. Anyway, I like Mona! I feel like once you start seeing him as a little baby brother-type character his attitude in general makes sense. His "simping" for Ann is just a kid crush, he still respects her both as a person and a valuable party member. He's always there for Joker to support him or offer advice. I find his "mothering" actions to be funny too - like packing an umbrella because Joker forgot, watching what he eats or saying to stay away from risque magazines/stores. He knows when to be serious and is a useful member of the team. When I first played the game I was really intrigued by his explanations of the metaverse. He's treated really well in the spinoffs too. In P5D he gets tons of good moments with the cast, especially Ryuji and in PQ2 he's very level-headed and composed. This isn't to say that he can't be disliked or that people can't find him annoying - on the contrary, I completely understand why they might. A fictional character can be as unredeemable and awful as they want, yet the biggest sin they can commit is being annoying. But I've been seeing a lot of "his only personality trait is being horny" and "it doesn't make sense he didn't stay dead" comments and those are just completely false. Morgana has a character arc and changes throughout the game. It doesn't mean he's perfect, nor that he should be liked because of it, but it also doesn't mean that his entire character should be discredited. How cute is it that the thieves' little cat friend came back to life because they believed in his existence, cmon. As Joker said "he's just a little meow-meow".
Ryuji treated Morgana way worse than Morgana did the other way around. The worst Morgana ever did was call him out for putting the thieves in danger multiple times and call him out when he started caring more about being famous rather than doing the right thing which became his priority for a time after they took down Kamoshida, Mona was right to call him out on that as well as his tendency to be aggressive and impulsive. Don’t misunderstand me, I love Ryuji as a character and think these flaws feel believable for someone hot headed who’s gone through what he has, the Persona games feature teens with very realistic if sometimes deeply unpleasant personality flaws, I don’t take objection to this. But…what the fandom always seems to overlook (from my perspective because of its hate boner for Morgana because “go to sleep” etc) Ryuji literally called Morgan worthless after picking at his insecurities about his existence and identity the entire game. I love Ryuji like I said, definitely my favourite Persona “bro” character of the big three but holy hell was he in the wrong in that part of the story.
Morgana's need to establish himself among a group of people who connect on deep levels and begin to replace the few things he brought that stood out is the kind of thing people will either empathize with or hate. As someone who has always struggled to fit in, and is often tossed aside by friends and friend groups for arbitrary reasons, I related to his arc pretty well. They people I've known who don't are usually the kinds of more popular people who often fit in and are the type to arbitrarily leave others behind without a care.
I never really hated Morgana; the parts that made upset with him were mostly vanilla P5 telling me things I couldn’t do via Morgana aka the classic “go to bed Joker” meme. Another instance is just the bickering between him and Ryuji because I’m biased for my boi. But, as much as I think about how annoying his whole runaway arc can be, I can relate to it. Having so many thoughts about yourself and your relationships buzz through your head, but not sharing any of them, only to lash out at people when your emotions hit a high? Yeah, I can understand that.
@@ThatOneLegendEmerald Same for me with (spoilers): Sumire. I am glad she has a lot of positive feedback in the limited screen time she was given (being part of an expanded story doesn’t really help matters when the base game was already established, good thing there was foreshadowing of something being wrong with her). But this guy called Nasser Almulaifi keeps bashing her out of spite and attacks those who genuinely like her, yet he worships Maruki is a flawless demigod, when he is deep down, a flawed, blind man with a Jehovah-complex. That Nasser guy was toxic.
Thank you! Thank you so much for this video! This series of analysis has been the kind of things I've been itching for from this game series. It gets so frustrating and annoying talking about this game and it's story with the general community, because to me it just feels like people dismiss certain characters because of certain scenes.
As someone with childhood trauma that led to years long gaps in my memory, and abandonment issues, Morgana actually was one of my favourite characters (after Sumire). Having someone that (to me) makes it feel like you are never alone and gets to experience the game with, since he also goes with you to different activities you can do on your own, makes the game more enjoyable to me. When morgana was gone I was very upset and when streaming the game to my friends i just kept saying "Give me my cat back! >:c" and made me actually kinda sad, scared of what if Morgana didn't come back? luckily he did haha. I love your video, I actually never thought about this whole thing before but you're so right about his self-image and the childlike behaviour. I relate a lot to Morgana and I'm glad for this video!
It's interesting to me how Human people see non-Human people regaining or creating their own autonomy and emotions as 'Humanization', instead of becoming a person. It highlights for me how Homosapian people internalise and interact with things other than Human as becoming Human, same thing with other species and non-Animal people as a reflection/refraction of a Human, rather than their own person. Like, we Humans have been alone in this universe for so long without others like extraterrestrial/non-Earth-terrestrial creatures and other sentient creatures because of our tendency to make them livestock, we forgo the ability to recognise another as themself, but instead adopt the toxic idea that they are becoming our standard of normal instead of them finding who they are as people. This will likely be a problem once animal rights groups start acting with Leftist's and A.I. Machinery becomes so widespread they start creating their own cultures. I'm hypothesising this since Human people have already done this to social and ethnic minorities in the past that resonant stronger in the present. What I'm saying is that we might use the idea of being Human A.K.A having autonomy and emotions as Homosapians as a way to discriminate against A.I. and other sentient creatures since we already use it against other intelligent Animals and Human minorities such as ethnic, gender and even subjectively opinionated minorities as the majority.
Tbh, Morgana does feel to me Like a Brother to the Protagonist. ...and I mean both types of Brother. The bog Bro who Shows the way of the to us unknown and being a good Guide. And the little Brother who you wanna give away For Adoption and Hope you never have to See him ever again! ^~^
Morgana is basically a little brother to the rest of the PT, which on top of being their initial mentor, I believe that his ego should've been let down gently, like Puss In Boots in The Last Wish. Maybe he just needed an actual antagonist that reflected his lack of identity, like a Ralsei/Jevil/Spamton type of character rather than Morgana just robbing Haru of her chance to stand up to her father. Maybe he could've blown up at the PT before or after the Beach or the Okumura arc and challenged Ryuji to a 1v1 in Mementos. Maybe that could've been a better way of letting everything out that's been in him, or at least even tell the PT that he needs to prove to them that he matters. Maybe the Mementos battle with Ryuji could reflect Akechi's fight with Joker. Also, with that Able-Bodied thing, I do have Autism, ADHD, Depression, PTSD, and while I have been able to deal with it internally, especially when I've been perfectly happy having these Nuerodivergence when I interacted with my own fictional worlds, I've been fustrated with everyone else externally because I know I tried, and try so hard to be good enough and patient enough for and with everyone else who didn't understand that when I was in my abusive school. While I can't understand your disability, as far as I can relate is how I sometimes feel like I'm in a Spring-Lock suit and that my body could break down or just go crazy without me constantly controlling or managing my body sometimes, though aside from that I don't think I can relate to your disability nor say much of anything else except I could've seen that you have found a way to live with it just like how all other disabled people can learn and have learned to deal with their disabilities. And for Morgana, honestly, I do see how him wanting to be human to have all of the human things would've been his wish that Maruki ableistically granted for him.
It might just be that I’ve grown up with cats and always loved them, but I’ve also always had a soft spot for Morgana. However much he might protest it, he really does act like a cat. I wish the game had done more to show him and Ryuji developing a healthy dynamic, but beyond that I really like the little guy. Every time he worried about whether he was human or what would happen to him once our quest was over I just wanted to say to him “You’re my friend. Whatever you were before, whatever you will be, that won’t change.”
Great vid! I actually dont like morgana much as a character but he and Teddie have a interesting arc where it really makes you think what it really means to be "human"
They both feel a bit different, I personally think Teddie represents existentialism: he fears that he's "empty" and has no meaning, but discovers that he defines the meaning in his life for himself.
I've always liked Morgana, that might be down to me being a cat person though. Also could be because how insufferable I found Teddie and his bloody bear puns though
YES, THANK YOU! Although there is no real surprise why many people dislike him, a lot of your reasonings and thoughts on him are exactly what I think about him as a whole and his worst flaws are actually why I like him. I think he's a cute little cheeky kid mascot, but what makes him great is how much he offers other than cuteness and how much he helps the group at the start. I've always had his mental age in my mind whenever he acts up in the group, be it playfulness or defensiveness. I really do think Morgana is the heart of the team, for better or for worse. And I do think it's a shame that his more interesting attributes get overshadowed either due to bias or just poor writing choices. (Because come on lbr, that blowup of his could've been handled better storywise) Wonderfully put together! I adore my little kitty bro :) - Edit: Okay, so I typed this before I even finished the video, so I never thought I'd be making a note about his human form. But it's truly interesting how fictional characters can affect you and make you think when it comes to the tiniest details, so hearing you talk about Mona and his human form and how it resonates with you is truly fascinating. It's been a while since I played Royal and the fact that Mona's human form is the short lived thing did not help me retain his words all that much, but it makes sense how significant his two lives made him value his true reality all the more. I'm sorry I don't have much to say for this part because it's the part I remember the least, but I was happy to hear your perspective on him and what Mona had to offer. Again, lovely work
Morgana? Didn't think this woukd actually happen given the whole supernatural stuff around his arc. Also, I complain a lot, but I actually do love Morgana's character arc, the whole amnesia giving him anxiety about being useful and that getting ramped up to 10 with Futaba's recruitment. Though, it is very wasted by most of his scenes just being petty and unreasonably rude interactions with Ryuji on both sides.
Didn't want to leave out any of the cast haha. I can definitely see why Mona's conflict with Ryuji would turn people off, but glad to hear you enjoyed Mona's development of not basing his self-worth over his usefulness.
I think a have a lot's of thoughts about Mona and he is my favourite character. He is always there for Joker, he is taking care of him as much as Joker takes care of Morgana (reminds him to go to sleep, reminds him of missions, helps to answer questions and during exam, and generally he is there, and just that means so much). But also, him always saying that he is human? And then almost everyone disrespects it, make fun of it or don't take serious... I'm a trans person, and god that always hits me. Bc people constantly misgender me (my first language has more gendered forms) and a lot of people who I was close to rediculed me or never took serious. Yeah, gender and human/cat form are not the same, but god it hit me so much, as I discovered this game on the pick of my disphoria and self-realisation. So yeah, I have lot's of thoughts on human Mona...
Feel for ya, I got DYT-6 dystonia, its similar to Parkinson’s and I need deep brain stimulators to just move normally, even then I require a wheelchair or walker to get around long distance. Respect sister.
0:05 Me [Having an Ace attorney (Turnabout Trial) Breakdown): THAT SCENE! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Edit: I like Morgana, but damn that writing in that arc. (I don't think I will ever let it go.)
My brother watched this before I did and when Lady said something along the lines of Ann and Morgana couldn't work because Morgana is a cat, I heard him yell, "HE IS NOT A CAT!" and slam his desk
I think Morgana should have been Puss in Boots. In the anime FLCL they reframe the story of Marquis de Carabais as a "lie becoming the truth" and considering the cruddy fake out with Morgana's origin, I think it would have been a really good twist if he was consciously or unconsciously working againsg the the thieves to lead them on the road of ruin. But in the end as a rebel he would betray his old master for his new one in Joker (parallel to the story where the Puss technically switches masters after his first dies and becomes owned by his son) and then his "lie" of being puss in boots and makinv the protagonist the Marquis (Joker) would come true as it did in the story. I feel like it would tie into both the rebellion theme of the game and the psych side of a "Persona" in one go.
The Morgana haters are such a pain and half. The story outright tells us that Morgana is the living incarnation of hope. His "simping" over Ann is a narrative representation of the hopes that can never be. And much like the character Morgan Le Fay for which he is named, he guided Joker to humanity's collective hope, just as Morgan guided Arthur to Excalibur. No one ever talks about this when going on their Morgana hate pilgrimage. That in the end, Morgana was the winning move by guiding Joker to humanity's collective hope, thus granting Joker the means to defeat Yaldabaoth. Even if you were to go by criteria, and say you don't like his design, or his personality, his lore alone puts him above many other characters in the series. And I'm suppose to run with this narrative that Morgana is a trash character? STOP THE CAP! People aren't very honest, nor do they pay attention all that well.
i didn't even think about that aspect of his character tbh. But thats really neat. and yea, Morgana haters are a thousand times more annoying then Morgana ever was
@@knotknight514Had to make a few edits, but yes. Thankfully, most of the Morgana hate is almost exclusively in the west. In Japan, Morgana is easily one of the most popular characters in P5. Many in the west can't seem to tell the difference between bad writing and a character flaw. The Magician archetype has ALWAYS had the character flaw of immaturity. People didn't complain about Junpei or Yosuke....back then anyway. Now, people are beginning to turn on Yosuke. Seems that the west hates Magician characters...for being Magicians.
@Ninja07Keaton I know, it's such a shame cause the magician boys are such bros as well. I also wanna add that a huge part of why Morgana is so popular in Japan is cause he's a mascot, and Japan LOVES mascots.
It also seems like persona fans just don't really get good writing in general. Yukari, Ken and Mishsima are also characters that I know the fan base has a lot of hate for, despite the fact that their characters go through a lot of growth throughout their respective stories.
@ight514Indeed. Yukari and Ken especially. Yukari was a girl who, from the age of 6, had to deal with a ton of trauma. She lost her father due to the catastrophe that started the events of P3 proper. Said father was blamed for the catastrophe, and society decided that the daughter would bare the "sins" of her father. 10 years of being hated and shunned, and players act like she had no reason to lash out, that her resentment toward the Kirijo family isn't warranted. Yukari was needlessly hostile toward Mitsuru early on, but it made perfect sense why. Mitsuru may have been innocent, but she's related to the guilty by blood. It was her grandfather's research that set all of this in motion after all. With that narrative context, Yukari is....FAR more graceful than most would be in that situation. More than half the player base condemning her would have gone to war or worse. Though I suppose trauma always seems insignificant to outsiders looking inward. Ken? Does it really take a genius to understand a child; emotionally scarred from watching his mother be killed before his eyes, resulting in him becoming hellbent on confronting his mother's killer? Not at all. But we've entered an era of illiteracy, so even the fundamentals of storytelling are lost to most now. Mishima...Well, most people in the West don't like the Moon characters in general. The Moon archetype is about characters dealing with self hatred, and reflecting on themselves. Imagine the irony of self reflection being frowned upon by the very audience that sorely needs self reflection? The Moon characters are hated for the same reason Jerry from Rick and Morty, Luke from Tales of the Abyss, Machias and Alisa from Trails of Cold Steel are hated. The west are volatile when viewing characters that are too much like themselves. They don't like these characters PRECISELY because they relate to them, they are everything they hate about themselves. At that point, it's an individual problem that those close to said individuals were clearly too soft to confront them about. Probably aren't even aware of their "friend"s turmoil.
Can definitely say I’m surprised at HOW MUCH people hate him. I wasn’t a fan but he’s really not the worst. I’m sure most of it stems from not being able to go out at night for other players. The fight between him and Ryuji was both of them being dumb kids, in my opinion and that should be expected. They’re not always going to be rational, especially under so much stress. I was likewise annoyed with Morgana about the PT being so passive and driven by public opinion. I just wish there was more emphasis on Haru throughout that arc. As a late team member, it’s a shame that Mona and Ryuji’s fight is a large part of her introduction. But after this video, it makes more sense to me.
maybe it's just because I'm a cat person but I've never hated Morgana. the first half of the Okumura arc is a headache, but blaming it all on Morgana is shitty at best. starting Persona in general off with Royal might've helped a bit tbh (and the fact that I heavily relate to his situation with not feeling useful or worthy in my little group of friends), since i can't compare him accurately to past characters that are said to be similar, which also includes his ‘go to sleep’ self. still, hearing Freedom and Peace for the first time broke my heart, and I had a hunch that Morgana was related to the very depths of Mementos as early as when he introduced us to it. learning how he was related to it fucking shattered me. and when the Thieves were getting erased from existence, I dunno man. I was in tears even before he started disappearing. then seeing this cat rest its head for the last time and fucking dissipate out of reality fucked me up. Royal Morgana admitting he IS a cat got me clapping. the lil guy accepted himself, finally. it was nice. he's nowhere near my favourite, but I still really really like him. "hissy fits" and all.
Thanks for another great character analysis video! Got any plans for future Persona character analysis, or do you want to take a break after all the P5 work?
I still plan on covering the symbolism of the cast's personas (like the series I did for P3). I'll also be starting my P4G replay soon so I can start making proper videos on the P4 cast ^^
@@LadyVirgilia ooo, so you’ll cover kanji? Yes please. That guy sorely needs some proper analysis. There are still so many people that think he’s meant to be a gay stereotype, i could write an actual essay debunking that. His shadow self, his relationship with naoto, his past experiences with masculinity, the symbolism of his arc, all of this is so interesting and a key component in why i love him so much. Kanji is the best boy and you cannot change my mind.
Morgana is the most misunderstood character in the Persona series which personally I find extremely frustrating because I believe he's one of the most well written and human characters ATLUS has created. I always found his ribbing on Ruiji more like friendly banter until his anxiety over his belonging in the group boils over and causes him to lash out. As for the "GO TO BED!" thing, that's more because he's used as a vehicle for gameplay mechanics and is not reflective of his actual character. Also keep in mind that Morgana during his lowest moments shows a lot of traits of the reversed Magician Arcana which is supposed to be a card representing resourcefulness and confidence but reversed represents insecurity and uncertainty.
After having finished the game I don't really understand why there's so much hate for the little guy. He's adorable and always pretty dependable. And his arch during the Okumora chapter was pretty good too.
I think what most disturbed me about Mona's human form was that it was a grown ass man. Like, I always pictured a human Morgana as around 13 at oldest. That cat is a child and you can not tell me otherwise.
I never understood the hate for Morgana and love for Ryuji. For me it’s the opposite. The Phantom Thieves owed a lot to Morgana, they wouldn’t have existed as a group if not for him. Meanwhile, Ryuji is dumb, loud and picks fights every conversation. He never changes beyond that and instead spends a lot of the game yelling to anyone in earshot that they’re the Phantom Thieves and they deserve credit damnit! Morgana has a reason to act the way he does, while Ryuji is just being Ryuji.
I personally love both even if I like Ryuji more Morgana is an extremely close second. From their Thief Costumes to their Personas they basically perfect if they turned their bickering down a couple notches.
100% agree with pretty much everything in this! Honestly, I always liked Morgana, but... Well firstly he's a cat (or at the very least looks a lot like one - still not 100% sure if he totally qualifies as a 'cat'?) and I really really really like cats so uh. there's that. ...But also, I can really relate to his whole "feeling out of place even if in a close group of friends & basing a lot of self value on if is being 'useful'" - the first part especially 'cause I'm autistic, so while that's obviously not the same as Morgana not being human.... It's something that is apart of me and can't be changed, kinda like how with Morgana he can't change who/what he is but still can lead to those sort of "inherently out of place - even if realistically should belong" feelings. So, I kind of ended up being able to see where he was coming from pretty fast with his character arc, and it made him feel more sympathetic to me. Also, finally someone else who agrees he's basically a kid!! For some reason I don't see a lot of people view him like that, but I always have? Oldest I've been able to imagine him if he had a 'real' human form is like.... 13-ish? And that also kinda made some of his attitude make more sense. But most of the time I don't see people agree with that??? (Also - I view him enough as Little Kid that it's to the point that his human appearance in Royal caught me super off-guard because.... I was imagining him to look like a little kid!! Not.... That!! (also the VA change threw me off too) Honestly, my only big issue is his development really happening in the Okumura Palace arc because... Well Haru's right there. And that's her dad. Why are we putting the attention on the talking cat more than... Okumura's literal daughter?? But I feel that's more a "issue with the writing/pacing" thing than "morgana as a character himself" thing. ...I also just kinda feel that somehow maybe his development should've maybe gone more with Mementos? No idea how it'd work into the overall game story, but given how he has those nightmares that take place in Mementos and his focus on that... I just feel it'd fit more than... Haru's dad?? Anyways morgana ramble over I just wanted to say these 'cause this video prompted the Morgana Thoughts!
You’re all saying that Morgana simps for Ann a lot,but you are forgetting that when you date her on Valentine’s Day Morgana just sighs like saying “well,who said dreams came true anyway”
Kinda annoyed that Mona doesn't get his human form at the end but Teddy does..... I found Teddy extremely annoying compared to Mona. Also about that blow-up between Mona and Ryuji, while I understand it needed to happen to progress the plot, I kinda wish Joker didn't just stand silently on the side-lines while the two were actively blowing up at each other. It felt unnatural that he just sits there and let's the scene play out. Would have been better if the fighting was happening while Joker was out, he returns to the cafe to catch the tail-end of the argument that occurs and Mona leaves as soon as he rushes in, preventing him from stopping it, only for Makoto, Ann, and Yusuke to recap what happened from the beginning to Joker before the gang would go out and look for him. That would have felt far more natural.
Okumura arc God dammit...... Morgana come back and help us travel The Metaverse is to big without you Royal arc 0_0 Who are you !? Wait, you're Mona. And is that Bryce Papenbrook voicing your Human self ?
Unrelated, but is your named based on Virgilia from Umineko no Naku Koro ni? I've been reading it recently (only in the middle of Banquet) so I've just saw the correlation.
Yes it is haha. When They Cry as a series has had a big impact on my life, so it's so cool whenever someone gets the reference. Hope you enjoy your time with Umi! I just finished an Umi reread myself so I can finally watch the new HIgurashi anime with fresh context in mind :)
Honestly, there's only two things I didn't like about Morgana. 1) He's a retread of Teddie's character arc. To be fair, it's a very much improved take on the archetype, but it still felt disappointing already knowing exactly where they were going with his character, right down to the reveal and the ending. 2) They went with the cutesy generic mascot design, instead of Mona's earlier concept art, which was way more striking and interesting. That concept would've felt right at home with the other Phantom Thieves' Metaverse outfits, it would've made the whole "Monster Cat" running gag actually make sense, and it would've made me not laugh at the Rank 6 flashback trying to be shocking. For the most part, I really like Morgana, and the moments where you bond with him work really well. I actually really liked the runaway arc too, how he felt like he was being left behind, and that the PT were getting derailed from their original mission. I just keep getting caught up in thinking about what could've been, which applies to more aspects of P5 than just Mona.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on that second one. Would it have been interesting? Yes however the internet cannot handle that. Look what they've done to poor Vaporeon.
Compared to the other “mascot” characters, Mona is more tolerable than Teddie. As goofy as Teddie is, I can’t help but get annoyed when he only moves if babes are involved, and male characters are left to fend for themselves, Yosuke especially (P4 protag is the exception).
The only parts of Mona I don’t like are the distraction from Haru’s arc (which is a writing problem and not a him problem) and the fact that he never apologizes to Ryuji for treating him like crap as well. Two pretty big things but they don’t ruin the character. Other than that, he’s a very loyal friend to Joker and I love how much he guides his new thief. He really fills the role Igor set for him well. Besides, without him, Mementos would be a pain to go through. He’s a good buddy, just an insecure buddy.
Morgana was charmingly annoying, in the way a kid sibling is. I found his nagging occasionally irritating, but he provided a useful niche on the team as The Wind Guy and The Getaway Driver. I found his crush on Ann a little irksome, especially with her arc being tied to being desired by a guy she's doesn't reciprocate the feelings for. It felt very very Kid Sibling, and it was largely innocent, but rubbed me the wrong way. This didn't make me hate Morgana so much as wish for some more nuanced writing on the topic of desirability and non-reciprocal desire. I got annoyed at the Ryuji/Morgana fight in the Okumura arc, but it was again more about frustration with how the wroters forced characters I liked onto a conflict than anything native to the the characters themselves. I found the receal of what Morfana was in Mementos actually charming - he's the Son of God (Igor) aent to earth to save humanity from it's sons : basically catboy Jesus! I found that charming, and a nice validation of him. He was made to save the Velvet Room from The Evil Demiurge and he did that by under standing humanity and rallying folks together. That was charming. I found the Third Semester revelation was intriguing, too. He was able to get his wish, and seeing him be a human person was quite charming. I actually felt like rooting for him and Ann , or at least hoping they'd address that crush. Would Ann now notice him as someone attractove? Or was he just not the sort of person she'd be into, and it was just an unfortunate case of different people with different desires. (I actually would have liked that explored in relation to the theme of Maruki's World - Morgana wished to be human so bad, only to realize that being human was not the be-all, end all for his desires. Maruki thinks he can make a perfect world, but human difference xan still produce pain, and that's no one's fault - that's just life. IMO it would work better than have Joker spend a week subtly and not so subtly telling his loved ones their happiness was a lie and they should reject things like dead loved ones back and having healthy relationships with them, or that their dreams need to be shattered Because Joker's conception of Reality must take precedent. )
I was wondering how you’d approach this, since Mona doesn’t really have much to do with P5, thematically. He does deal with overcoming adversity, and being an outcast, but the story’s largely about how societal issues lead to the injustice and oppression the PTs face on a daily basis, and Mona’s arc is just completely divorced from that. Not a big deal, but it’s like he’s from a different story sometimes lmao. Mona’s probably my least favourite Phantom Thief, but besides his bs in the Okumura arc, I never found him that annoying. I’ll take him a million times over Teddie, at least. Teddie singlehandedly turned P4 from an 8.5 to an 8 for me
I want to like Morgana, I really do, but it seems like his flaws way him down wayyy too much. I love a characters with flaws, its what makes them realistic, but Morgana's flaws are so overpowingg to his relationships with the rest of the PT I can't help but hate him. The big fight between him and Ryuji was the turning point for me. The writing tries to frame it as Ryuji's fault which is super confusing cause Ryuji wanted to keep going with PT stuff. But of course the writing wouldn't allow Morgana to get mad at the girls (the main people who wanted to put things on hold) so it has to be Ryuji's (the butt monkey of the game) fault. I heard he's better in Strikers so I'm looking forward to hopefully changing my views on Morgana
Morgana’s arc would’ve been better suited as his own palace or at least a separate encounter from Haru’s. Morgana is the one who starts fights with ryuji and then gets mad when ryuji fights back. He needed to grow up and mature and not take Haru’s spotlight who feels severely underutilized particularly because Morgana is there.
I want to like Morgana, I really do. But between white knighting for Ann, his major inferiority complex, and his general "I'm better and smarter than everyone else" vibes make it very difficult to like him. The fact that the second Makoto shows up he starts throwing a fit just makes him grating.
Hot take: Morgana has to be a she, because...: Then Morgana would be a species-confused gender-confused possibly-cat with a fetish for young women in cat suits. Some things are just too weird to be allowed to be wrong.
@@xuto2693 Throwimg shade at Ryuji and can’t take it when Ryuji throws shade back at him. Also the part right before the 5th palace and the the end of the 5th palace. That palace was about Haru and her dad yet at the end instead of Haru getting a moment Morgana gets a moment. IMO bad writing at its finest right there.
@@eli951000 They were written together for most of that arc, I think it makes sense for him to have a moment at the end, tidy things up. There wasn't really a better moment. His getting upset with ryuji is a bit more nuanced, but a lot of people can't pick up on it. Or don't care.
@@eli951000tbh most ryuji apologists just like ryuji cuz he's a 'bro' character. Morgana said wrong things to ryuji too but he never targeted his insecurities or throw shade at him for having a broken leg or not having a dad. Ryuji on the other hand was wayyy out of line when he directly called him useless. Also the phantom thieves couldn't have made it without morgana. He was the one who introduced the metaverse, told how calling cards work, how it's important not to kill the shadow at the palace. And also he was the main source of transportation without which it would've been very difficult for the phantom thieves to complete Futaba's palace. Ryuji was better in battle sure but you could still say he's a little replaceable.
Unfair blame for "go to sleep!" when the previous games have that just as often... the protagonist just thinks it to himself instead :/
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Yeah but it at least feels personal instead of being told to and forced to go to sleep.
It's kind of a five nights at Freddy's fan situation
I know it sounds completely unrelated but it makes sense trust me
Persona 5 would've been a completely different game if Joker were allergic to cats.
dangggg we wouldn't have even gotten past the first palace :o
P3 would be even more different if the protagonist was allergic to dogs and is a robophobic.
Imagine if Yu Narukami was allergic to fog for some reason in P4
@@onewingedren2228 fog is just water though…
Then imagine if Yu was allergic to water, as that's actually an allergy some people have
If Mona ever says that he is NOT a cat…
I just need to remind myself he is more than just a cat. Mona is… a friend.
*Ryuji and Morgana in their last stand against Yaldaboth*
Ryuji: never thought I’d die fighting alongside a cat
Morgana: I am NOT a cat! I am your friend!
Ryuji: eh I could do that
I’m higher on Morgana than I think most fans are. Like, I’ve always found it endearing just how earnest and interested Morgana is when it comes to new things, whether it’s a new item at a restaurant or DVDs you can rent. His little comments just add something to the experience for me. And his struggle with his self-image and body is super interesting since that stuff doesn’t come up that often with male characters in this genre. Plus, he’s always in Ren’s corner or bag ig lol, and that means a lot considering just how many people are rooting against Ren, especially early on.
Another aspect that I like about Morgana is that he wears his heart on his sleeve. One example is his initial persona, Zorro, which is just this strong hero that Morgana fashion himself as. It’s so clear through that and other actions that he thinks of himself as uniquely awesome and capable.
When that image starts to fall apart, Morgana so desperately tries to preserve it, and that is such a profoundly human thing to do. And the reality is he can’t hold on to that image because the PTs are getting stronger and smarter, but, more importantly, he doesn’t need to because it’s unreasonable to think that you can always be the greatest at what you’re doing. That’s why I really appreciate how his arc ends with him separating his self-worth from his work and being comfortable with his body.
Ngl, my first thought when it came to human Morgana was “why couldn’t this be a thing in P5D 😂?” On a more serious note though, it reminded me that Morgana’s lived experience as a cat is different but cool in its own way. I mean, he’s a talking cat who can transform into a bus. It’s pretty awesome how he stands out tbh, and it’s cool to hear that you could relate to Morgana in that section. Also, it’s neat that this video has CCs.
You know, that's a great point about Mona being that one companion we can count on during a time where everyone else is so hostile or dismissive of Joker.
I like how Zorro symbolizes Mona's early facade too. Someday I'll get to analyzing the P5 cast's personas in the same way I did for P3 lol.
It's definitely understandable why it's hard to separate self-worth with work/school/whatever we do in life. It's such an important lesson to learn though, and I like how Mona's arc explores that just generally.
Working on CC'ing all the scripted videos slowly but surely~ More accessibility STRONK!
Mona being in Ren’s corner, huh?
(Personal opinion contains spoilers):
If only Maruki was in Sumire’s corner properly, but… how can he be in her corner to help with her personal trauma when he can’t even cope with his own trauma himself?
I am glad Ren was in Sumire’s corner during 3rd Semester and her entire confidant. She needed it more than most.
This comment sumarizes who i love Morgana and why i think that he is overhated
Personaly, i never really though Morgana was really annoying. Teddy was way worse i think. But both really grew to me. Great video👍
Oh my word, amen. Maybe I was just prepared for annoyance since I dealt with Teddy first but he was *far* more annoying.
I never had a problems with teddie, or maybe im just weird.
I never understood why people hate Morgana. He’s a very enduring character especially toward game end. I named my cat after him because the original name of my cat was Sojigner or wanderer fits Morgana pretty well.
I didn't find him annoying but even if I did, I could never get over the fact that he is a cat that you carry in your bag.
With how much the fandom shits on Morgana, this video is very refreshing. He's my favourite character and an essay on his perspective surrounding the argument mid game is very nice to see.
tbh, by about mid game, i was on the morgana hype train pretty hard, i loved the little guy so much, and he was so cute in my backpack.
I can see some people's gripes with Morgana, but I just never was fully on board with it. As you said in the video, he's at most 3 years old. Intellectually, he's on par with some of the thieves, maybe not Makoto or Futaba levels, but higher than Ryuji. But experience-wise, he's not even close, and not just because of his amnesia. Most teens on some level know how to deal with crushes who don't like them back. Plus there's how excited he was about Dome Town before Akechi showed up. Honestly, before Royal, I always pictured that if he got a human form, it would be that of like a pre-teen instead of the same age as the other thieves.
On a personal level, I can sympathize with Morgana's third-semester storyline. I have both dyslexia and ADHD, and while it's not the same as being a cat in a human world, it can be annoying to be neurodivergent. I never knew a time where I didn't read slowly, when I didn't struggle to do things I have no interest in, or when crowded areas didn't push me closer to a meltdown if I didn't have earbuds to block out the sound. My dad claims to have ADHD as well, but apparently, he can muscle through it and tried to pass that philosophy onto me. Meanwhile, my younger brother never had to deal with it. There are times when I wish that my brain functioned normally, where I could just sit down and skim a boring text without being distracted. But then I remember all the things I learned because of the way my brain works, and I know I wouldn't change it for the world.
Thanks for sharing about your experience living with ADHD and dyslexia.
My disease makes many things about life difficult, but I too, value all the things I've learned because of it, and I wouldn't change that for anything.
"If he got a human form it'd be a pre-teen."
Uh, I hope not. OwO
Morgana (Mona) is my favorite P5 character. I ADORE him so much, from his personality, English voice, design, I think he is the best Persona mascot. My lil’ boy has never been annoying, he’s so cute. Thanks for doing this video!
Morgana is best cat. This video is really well done and I'm glad it exists because then I don't have to do the explaining myself as to why I think he's a really well-written character.
Morgana is an interesting twist on the non-human party member. In P4, Teddie was able to become human, while Morgana did not. However, their spiritual journey allowed them to accept themselves, that's what matters most. On a personal level, I liked Morgana. Since he was a healer, that meant he was on my permanent party throughout my first playthrough. I slowly started to phase him out during my second as I got more used to my party member's powers, but he came back with Debilitate from the Jazz cafe to fight the toughest boss in the game: Lavenza. The biggest effect Morgana had on the Phantom Thieves was is knowledge of the Metaverse. Like you pointed out in the Akechi video: if it weren't for Mona telling the thieves about calling cards and treasure and changes of heart, the Phantom Thieves may have very well resorted to killing the palace rulers to save themselves. Mona's presence saved them from being Black Mask 2.0.
Time for a big comment again.
First, my general thoughts on Morgana. A lot of people hold "go to bed" against him, but I played with a guide during my first playthrough so that was never a problem. There's his simping to Ann, to the point where some fans romance her just to spite him. I think it can be annoying but it never got TOO excessive. (cough Persona Q Teddie cough)
I think I'm biased towards him because I really like cats so I find the idea of a cat companion for the MC relatable, and a lot of his flaws are things I know well as a cat owner. Cats are biologically tsundere, no exceptions.
Ever since Koromaru I've wanted a cat Persona user, and... admittedly I would've preferred a real one to a cartoon mascot. I feel like since Teddie, "obligatory cute mascots" have become a thing in Persona, and they've retroactively tried to fit Koromaru into that, but what made Koro-chan so great (at least to me) is he was just a normal dog who happened to be a Persona user. No "Look at me! Look at me! I'm a loveable cartoon mascot!"
So overall I don't love Morgana, but I don't hate him either. I'm neutral, and that's not a common opinion.
This is some great analysis for Mona and it's a lot I never really noticed even playing though this game twice, like the fact that he's no more than 3 years old mentally. (Reminds me of a certain Tales Of character who's an immature brat but turns out to literally be a child with a late-teen's body, making all his earlier moments go from annoying to tragic)
Mona's feelings of uselessness and wanting to prove his worth to others is something I identify with a lot. Another interesting example of this archetype is... it's another Tales Of character but it'd be a spoiler to say their name. They deconstruct the "Butt Monkey" trope in that they legit betray the party on one story path, partly due to being treated like a joke and having their serious mental issues ignored. It's basically Mona's actions in the Okumura arc taken to the extreme, and he dies for it. (Admittedly I wish this was more tied to how you treat them in gameplay, what actually controls it is picking the guest character as the MC's "closest person")
Speaking of Mona in that arc... the scene where he finally spills his feelings is legit one of my favourites in P5, and the payoff at the end of the Palace is a great moment for him. I think the reason why it's so divisive is because it steals the spotlight from Haru in what's supposed to be HER arc, and she's a character who was already under-developed and in desperate need of more screentime. Like, what if Royal's new Palace ended with a big Makoto moment? Or if Sae's Palace turned out to be about Ryuji? It'd be awkward, and that's exactly what happens here. So in short, Mona in the Okumura arc: good development for him... bad timing for the story.
I grew up a little before the smartphone generation, so phones aren't completely natural for me.
Thoughts on Mona's human form? Eh. To me it always felt more like the punchline to a joke, rather than a comment on the character's development like everyone else in Maruki's reality. I do like how the English dub is bugged and uses his cat voice when talking to him in the overworld, it adds to the feeling that something's "not right" with Maruki's reality and the old world is bleeding through. An example of an unintended glitch that accidentally enhances the world-building. I dunno if anyone else thinks that.
It was nice to hear you relate your experiences to Human Mona though. We take so many of our body's functions for granted, more people need to realize not everyone has that luxury.
Always appreciate your long, thoughtful comments!
I don't mind Morgana as our talking mascot, but now that you bring up Koromaru, it really would've been a breath of fresh air to have just a normal animal companion. Especially since we got Teddie in just the last entry.
And yeah, I can see why Mona left a bad taste for many players after stealing the spotlight from Haru.
I agree that Mona's part in the 3rd semester has the least to dissect out of the entire cast. Definitely treated as more of a punchline.
Yeah I'm trying to be a bit more personal in these videos. Thanks for the support~
@@LadyVirgilia To me, Koromaru was cute because he was a normal pet. They didn't try to "force" cuteness with him, at least not in the original game.
Morgana's still okay though, and his comments while you're exploring the city add a bit to things compared to P3 and 4's bodiless narration.
@@BigKlingy hi if I may ask what guide did you use ? And was it for vanilla or Royal ?
@@makotoamamiya2442 For vanilla, the one I used was actually made by KillScottKill. It never needed to rent a DVD so I didn't have to worry about Morgana forcing late fees.
For Royal I generally use the A.C.E (All Confidant Events) one on Game FAQs.
@@BigKlingy thanks!
In regards to his relationship with Ryuji people really need to understand the difference between what he does and what Ryuji does. When he's critical of Ryuji it's for areas they both know Ryuji needs to work on, but he NEVER digs at a sore spot like Ryuji's broken leg and there are geuniune moments where they are chill around each other throughout the game too plus sometimes he has perfect justification to be critical but does'nt take it like when Makoto busted them. Ryuji on the other hand digs at every single one of Morgana's sore spots from the moment they meet, that's why they start off on such a bad foot and to be honest Ryuji's a bit of a whiner in the beginning of the game. I really enjoy his charachter but I could certainly see why Morgana would get frustrated with the kid.
He's much more gentle and nice to not just Ann but literally everyone else on the team because they respect his boundaries and have the paitence to actually listen to him. Ryuji is not the only reason for what happens in the okumura arc, but he does share ALOT of the blame for it and people really need to stop ignoring Ryuji's own role in it. Their all to happy to blow up Morgana's negativie traits while ignoring the positive ones. Plus in terms of ego he's no where near as bad as say Seto Kaiba or Vegeta yet those two are considered popluar charachters. Inspite of his ego he's a geninuely good person who's very loyal and can be real sweet too. He's level headed with a strong sense of what's right and even in the face of something 10x bigger than him he's not afraid to call it out on it's bullshit which is oh so fun to watch.
Also Morgana is very smart sure he goes on hunches but he's always dead on with them and he really needs to be since he was created to be the guide for Joker after all. Don't forget that he contributes as much to the plan to outsmart Akechi as Makoto and Futaba do, not only the obvious but he's the first to get suspicous and is the one to come up with the idea to tap Akechi's phone.
Morgana is my favorite charachter from persona 5 royal I believe he has some of the best development in the game and they make sure to have it stick through to strikers as well. And it's very refreshing that in a time where people obsess about realisim so much that the writers of the game decided NOT to let him be human and instead let him be special in his own unique way. That is a big reason why I don't know if I'll play persona 4, I HATE when a non human charachter get's turned human.
Saying that Kuma gets "turned human" is a stretch. He gains the external appearance of one, but not the actual biology, and if anything a sometimes frustratingly small portion of the behavior. Whether pre or post transformation, he's an entirely unique sort of being, and that fact doesn't always manifest itself in positive ways.
@@TheWolfgangGrimmer When I made this comment I only knew about the point where Teddie becomes human and did'nt know if he was playable before this happened. The reason I get so mad at a non human charachter becoming one is because most of the time the charachter starts out weak in that form but suddenly become powerful simply from being turned human. In worlds where magic and such exist I find that to be a very lazy way to power up the non human charachter. Plus in their normal form they bring variety to a cast.
However since I made this comment I've seen more footage of the game and when they came to switch the reveal trailer showed footage of Teddie in the party at what seemed to be pretty early in the game. So my interest in 4 has gotten pretty high enough to consider buying it.
@@Cloud-dt6xb He is technically only playable after, but that's because of his Persona awakening a few days prior, not much to do with his physical transformation. More importantly, and like I already mentioned, he's nothing much like a human at all aside from his outer shell. He doesn't actually have human muscles or bone structures, and in fact it is shown that he cannot be analyzed by conventional hospital equipment such as X-ray machines.
Although, again, sometimes he acts in ways that are so irritating that it makes me wish he _were_ more human in character. In fact he's easily my least favorite member of the party.
When morgana is mentioned, he is often compared to the other mascots, especially teddie, and i have to say something about the matter. I like them both. Sure, everyone seems to hate the bear puns, but i really don’t mind them. I think that’s because i was a part of the undertale community at it’s height, and considering what people like to do with sans, i was basically taught that puns aren’t bad. This has allowed me to look past the puns and look at teddie as a character - and what i see is a lonely child that has been alone for all his life, that now finally gets to be around people and loves every second of it. There is honestly so much to discuss with teddie - the way his character arc fits perfectly with the themes of the game, the way he models his personality after the first humans he’s encountered (which includes yosuke and shadow yukiko, so that explains a lot), his connection with nanako, there is so much good here that people just ignore because “stupid bear make bad pun and be horny“. Honestly, teddie deserves way more love.
Same goes for morgana. He has a solid, understandable character arc and a well defined personality. There’s a lot to love here - his little comments on everything you do, his unwavering support, his bond with the thieves, his persona symbolism (zorro represents morgana’s desire to be a real human and a great hero, while mercurius represents morgana finding his true purpose as a guide for the thieves and all humanity). However, people ignore all this because “simp cat bully ryuji and tell you go to bed“. Honestly, i could write essays on both of them. Also, fun fact i noticed: both teddie and morgana fulfill similar roles in combat - they both are powerful magic users and are healers. If the same was true for koromaru or aigis, i would definitely call it a pattern.
Koro and Aigis are more attackers than healers.
I don't like teddie because
In P4 he actually gets better at the end but in every other spin off he is so annoying i hate him in PQ games and P4AU so much
Now Morgana he is truly one of the best P5 characters that people hate thanks to unfunny jokes of people that din't got the character at all or the Persona fans that never played Persona and only know Joker from Smash
Honestly Koromaru and Aigis are not like Morgana at all, still great tho, if you want a similar character arc I’d say Junpei is your man
When I got on the subreddit after playing P5 for the first time, I never understood the reasoning why so many hated him. And your video pretty much sums up my thoughts on why I like Mona.
Was wondering when we'd get a Morgana video. Honestly I find people really exaggerate the hate on the furball to unnecessary levels as they take his flaws way too seriously at face value without looking too deep into it as you have laid out here as they are pretty much intentional and the point as a necessary negative for his growth as a character.
His dynamic with Ryuji has always been a comedic vitriolic snarky relationship which isn't even anything new to Persona or other media as you see it in sitcom arch rivalries between characters like Zoro and Sanji from One Piece for example. Morgana did believe himself to be originally human hence him believing to have a shot with Ann probably as his way in maintaining that he must be human if he can fall for a human female rather than a female feline.
As you mentioned it's not just a lack of memories, identity and sense of self, place to belong but it's also a sense of purpose as he really has nothing other than become human again and when that is thrown into question with doubt, it naturally makes Morgana angst hard. His conceited braggadocious attitude really is just a front as a way to seek out validation because all he really has is how "useful" he is with his skills and knowledge of the Metaverse and how to be a Phantom Thief without that he has nothing to show for himself to identify him. So when Ryuji called him "useless" it actually unintentionally hit harder than the average person as that pretty much called Morgana's entire existence into question. Not helping that Ryuji called the cat "useless" about THREE TIMES which is about the same amount as Makoto being called "useless" but through different people. It's a recurring pattern how our many characters in P5 desperately yearn to be acknowledged and needed by others from our main cast to side characters so that insult touches a nerve.
As much as Morgana asserts that he has a "deal" with Ren and the others as they are a means to an end for each other for their goals, deep down Morgana is very lonely and has become very attached to the gang as they are the only humans he can communicate with and have any form of a place to call home to, so he also has the problem of admitting such vulnerability to himself and to the others out of pride in taking such an emotional burden on himself hence him bottling up such issues without properly confiding in anyone. So it means a lot in how he loses his place in the team because he has no where else to turn.
Angst isn't supposed to look pretty as the real ugly part of people come out where you lash out, are irrational, stubborn to listen to reason and become sensitive to anything remotely that adds fuel to your inner turmoil.
It's similar to how Junpei felt in being overshadowed and left in the dust by his teammates with the fear of losing his place to belong leaving him to confront how much of a "loser" he is in reality with not much of a purpose in life which leads to him trying hard to prove himself with heroic bravado with a chip on his shoulder.
I feel like Morgana usually being benched by players is very much an intentional part of the gameplay tying into the story of Morgana feeling "useless" as he is a squishy wizard compared to when other characters join they have an impressive skillset and his other teammates learn better skills especially Joker where with his Wildcard ability he can fuse Personas that can take over Morgana's role of being a Garu user, Healer and Lucky/Miracle Punch critical hit dealer. So when later in the story when Morgana leaves the team but then re-ignites his passion and rejoins the Phantom Thieves, he learns his third level Garu skills faster than any other character, and his magic stat skyrockets, letting him do much more damage much sooner than almost any other character.
Out of all Magicians and non human characters, Morgana's story does it very well in keeping with the archetypal theme. It's a shame not many will understand such nuance. When you think about it, his arc is pretty relatable to many people IRL than we are willing to admit (minus the supernatural aspect of course). Magician arcana characters will probably forever be a divisive bag for people because they really don't pull any punches in showing VERY human flaws which aren't supposed to be "likeable" and "endearing".
Thanks for this beefy comment lol.
I wholeheartedly agree with everything, and do want to say I hadn't even noticed Mona's magic stat growth before and after that arc. That's a really cool thing and I thank you for pointing it out!
Added more for something usually overlooked. Morgana got mentally stung by other members as well, not just Ryuji, one is the scene before the hawaii trip when Ann saying that Morgana being "cute" is enough, which to him implying that his most redeemable feature that he's cute, at least to him.
Another scene during the Hawaii trip Futaba have a conversation with Morgana in which she said "Couldn't you assuming that (about Morgana being human), I had the wrong assumptions about my mom for the longest time" in which even more tax in mentally. Morgana insecurities are about: 1/ Him not being human and 2/ Him feeling unworthy to the team. Not only that if you pay attention to the phone massaging, Morgana at the moment felt heavily left out while the group chatting through phone.
It's weird whenever it's bring up it's always about "Ryuji called Morgana useless one". IMO to call the whole circumstances like that is extremely lackluster perceptive. This arc had little to do with "Ryuji and Morgana" alone but rather "Morgana with the whole team". Ryuji started the fire doesn't mean it's the only reason for the whole thing. Morgana also NEVER condemn Ryuji or even asked him for apology at all.
Morgana was literally my MVP Bro
Btw yeah, he is truly overhated and i feel like It was just a herd effect, because people started hating him because of people making "Go to sleep funny1!1!1!1! Annoying" "Morgana Ann Simphahaha" and "He calls Ryuji Stupid he is such a horrible person, (not like there is a lot of characters like that in media such as Vegeta, Zoro or Sanji)" memes
So people started hating Morgana because of these dumb memes and since we all know that most P5 fans din't actually played the game(afther the community growed thanks to Smash) people bashed Morgana because they only knew him from the memes or they played the game and look every character in a shallow way
Honestly he is one of the best P5 characters, because besides his desing and everything else he is probably the most realistic character in the main cast along with Ryuji and Ann and i really appreciate his development
Funny thing is morgana was my permanent healer for most of my p5r gameplay (i never played base plus i got it on switch). Sadly i couldnt use him for the final boss of the 3rd semester no spoilers ofc
This is the first vid I've watched from your channel, and I am so impressed! You brought up a ton of points about Mona I've never thought about (Mona's age, his lack of interaction with humans, seeing the other PT's overcome adversity, etc.) and everything makes a lot of sense. Looking forward to future vids! :)
Ahh thank you so much!
Stay tuned for a Maruki video~
I really like Morgana. Persona 5 wouldn't be nearly as interesting if he wasn't always around to react to the world around Joker and gradually learn about how humans work to frame the themes of the story.
Despite being an anthropomorphic cat his story arc of letting go of his personal narratives is super relatable and probably the one that has to furthest reach amongst the fan base. Ironically, it's a very human feeling.
Some narratives that we internalize include the notion of being successful straight out of college and finding love and settling down without doing the personal work. Morgana's arc is a microcosm of the adolescent experience and learning that not everything is about you.
I actually felt really bad for Morgana when he and Ryuji had that argument before the 5th palace, like yes it was a little painful to watch but that's why I felt bad for him. That looming feeling of being replaced by people who are better than you and feeling useless as a result is something that I've dealt with myself many times and seeing how upset he was for feeling that way really resonated with me. It's the reason why I've struggled to make long-term friends most of my life because I always felt like they "didn't need me" which is why they never stuck around. Fortunately I was able to find a group of friends in which I belong and I'm really grateful for them.
I think it should also be mentioned that Morgana is the manifestation of the last traces of human hope. It's a little hard for me to come to a proper analysis on this particular subject at the moment but I think it should be talked about a bit more because... I mean, Morgana didn't remember this at all, but imagine being the literal manifestation of hope and people think they don't even need you. I'd be a little upset as well to be honest.
exactly this for me as well.
I wanna add tho that seeing a character like Morgana that you can really relate to and see yourself in being completely shit on by 90% of the internet feels really bad tbh
I would argue the first foreshadow towards his little escapade is actually tied into gameplay in the 3rd Palace.
It's right around there the game started dropping shadows with no weaknesses in your way while also giving you the technical attack tutorial, a first time player's signal that nuclear synergizes with both lightning AND fire, when wind only techs off of burns.
This in addition to Makoto coming equipped with healing and a buff make her perfect to slot into the support role in combat that Morgana had been in up till that point. Where before you might've learned about his synergy with Ann to produce tech knock downs or, more likely, were using his lucky punch when you didn't have the right element to knock an enemy, now Makoto facilitates that even better.
I know I am late, but as someone who suffers from chronic exhaustion who has to sleep at least 16 hours a day, I can relate to wanting to go back to being able bodied, as well as able minded. Longcovid gave me brainfog that just doesn't let up, and since then I have been unable to do anything outside of my lessons. It's isolating in a unique way, and people who do not have a disability often fail to understand just how isolating it is.
Fantastic video! You really articulated well how Morgana's circumstances feed into his insecurities. And how he's mentally a child, that's something people tend to overlook when judging his interactions. The Royal section of the video hit hard as well. Long-ish comment incoming:
I never understood the fanbase's utter vitriol and fury for this cute cat character. I feel like Mona was the biggest victim of the memes surrounding the Okumura arc, simping for Ann and being told to go to bed - the persona fandom's hot takes seem to be influenced the most by these generic meme criticisms or whatever.
For example, there is plenty of (believable) buildup to his reaction during Haru's arc but people will still insist there was none. Like, sometimes characters in stories act out of frustration or make mistakes and are supposed to have flaws but to a lot of people this is just unacceptable and a sign of bad writing (I'm talking in general here, not just persona, though it does have very widespread "I haven't payed attention to anything" takes). Could his arc in the sixth palace have been done better? Yeah, honestly the biggest gripe I have with it is that it's a tiny bit too cliche for my liking (I feel like if the part where they try to apologize in mementos and he rejects them was removed, and fused with the next scene, it could've flown way better imo). But I see it akin to a mediocre episode of a long show - it's not that big of a deal lol. The amount of people taking two scenes from this arc and using it against both Ryuji and Morgana even though they make up in the end is frustrating tho, ngl. And the "Haru screentime" argument, good grief. She's my favorite female party member and even I got over it. While we're at it, Kasumi's little awakening adventure just so happens to freeze the plot and occur right in the middle of Haru's arc but I didn't see anyone complaining about her.
Anyway, I like Mona! I feel like once you start seeing him as a little baby brother-type character his attitude in general makes sense. His "simping" for Ann is just a kid crush, he still respects her both as a person and a valuable party member. He's always there for Joker to support him or offer advice. I find his "mothering" actions to be funny too - like packing an umbrella because Joker forgot, watching what he eats or saying to stay away from risque magazines/stores. He knows when to be serious and is a useful member of the team. When I first played the game I was really intrigued by his explanations of the metaverse. He's treated really well in the spinoffs too. In P5D he gets tons of good moments with the cast, especially Ryuji and in PQ2 he's very level-headed and composed.
This isn't to say that he can't be disliked or that people can't find him annoying - on the contrary, I completely understand why they might. A fictional character can be as unredeemable and awful as they want, yet the biggest sin they can commit is being annoying. But I've been seeing a lot of "his only personality trait is being horny" and "it doesn't make sense he didn't stay dead" comments and those are just completely false. Morgana has a character arc and changes throughout the game. It doesn't mean he's perfect, nor that he should be liked because of it, but it also doesn't mean that his entire character should be discredited. How cute is it that the thieves' little cat friend came back to life because they believed in his existence, cmon. As Joker said "he's just a little meow-meow".
Ryuji treated Morgana way worse than Morgana did the other way around. The worst Morgana ever did was call him out for putting the thieves in danger multiple times and call him out when he started caring more about being famous rather than doing the right thing which became his priority for a time after they took down Kamoshida, Mona was right to call him out on that as well as his tendency to be aggressive and impulsive.
Don’t misunderstand me, I love Ryuji as a character and think these flaws feel believable for someone hot headed who’s gone through what he has, the Persona games feature teens with very realistic if sometimes deeply unpleasant personality flaws, I don’t take objection to this.
But…what the fandom always seems to overlook (from my perspective because of its hate boner for Morgana because “go to sleep” etc) Ryuji literally called Morgan worthless after picking at his insecurities about his existence and identity the entire game. I love Ryuji like I said, definitely my favourite Persona “bro” character of the big three but holy hell was he in the wrong in that part of the story.
Morgana's need to establish himself among a group of people who connect on deep levels and begin to replace the few things he brought that stood out is the kind of thing people will either empathize with or hate. As someone who has always struggled to fit in, and is often tossed aside by friends and friend groups for arbitrary reasons, I related to his arc pretty well. They people I've known who don't are usually the kinds of more popular people who often fit in and are the type to arbitrarily leave others behind without a care.
I never really hated Morgana; the parts that made upset with him were mostly vanilla P5 telling me things I couldn’t do via Morgana aka the classic “go to bed Joker” meme. Another instance is just the bickering between him and Ryuji because I’m biased for my boi.
But, as much as I think about how annoying his whole runaway arc can be, I can relate to it. Having so many thoughts about yourself and your relationships buzz through your head, but not sharing any of them, only to lash out at people when your emotions hit a high? Yeah, I can understand that.
Me, grasping for staws at this point for positivity for the character because I love him:
Were you?
@@mystery8820 I've been grasping for positivity in the community relating to morgana for so long cause the toxicity is overbearing
@@ThatOneLegendEmerald
Same for me with (spoilers):
Sumire. I am glad she has a lot of positive feedback in the limited screen time she was given (being part of an expanded story doesn’t really help matters when the base game was already established, good thing there was foreshadowing of something being wrong with her).
But this guy called Nasser Almulaifi keeps bashing her out of spite and attacks those who genuinely like her, yet he worships Maruki is a flawless demigod, when he is deep down, a flawed, blind man with a Jehovah-complex.
That Nasser guy was toxic.
yeee I gotcha covered!
(this might just be me, but I find it really hard to hate fictional characters lol)
@@LadyVirgilia honestly same unless they are painted to be a villain
Thank you! Thank you so much for this video!
This series of analysis has been the kind of things I've been itching for from this game series. It gets so frustrating and annoying talking about this game and it's story with the general community, because to me it just feels like people dismiss certain characters because of certain scenes.
As someone with childhood trauma that led to years long gaps in my memory, and abandonment issues, Morgana actually was one of my favourite characters (after Sumire). Having someone that (to me) makes it feel like you are never alone and gets to experience the game with, since he also goes with you to different activities you can do on your own, makes the game more enjoyable to me. When morgana was gone I was very upset and when streaming the game to my friends i just kept saying "Give me my cat back! >:c" and made me actually kinda sad, scared of what if Morgana didn't come back? luckily he did haha. I love your video, I actually never thought about this whole thing before but you're so right about his self-image and the childlike behaviour. I relate a lot to Morgana and I'm glad for this video!
It's interesting to me how Human people see non-Human people regaining or creating their own autonomy and emotions as 'Humanization', instead of becoming a person. It highlights for me how Homosapian people internalise and interact with things other than Human as becoming Human, same thing with other species and non-Animal people as a reflection/refraction of a Human, rather than their own person. Like, we Humans have been alone in this universe for so long without others like extraterrestrial/non-Earth-terrestrial creatures and other sentient creatures because of our tendency to make them livestock, we forgo the ability to recognise another as themself, but instead adopt the toxic idea that they are becoming our standard of normal instead of them finding who they are as people.
This will likely be a problem once animal rights groups start acting with Leftist's and A.I. Machinery becomes so widespread they start creating their own cultures.
I'm hypothesising this since Human people have already done this to social and ethnic minorities in the past that resonant stronger in the present.
What I'm saying is that we might use the idea of being Human A.K.A having autonomy and emotions as Homosapians as a way to discriminate against A.I. and other sentient creatures since we already use it against other intelligent Animals and Human minorities such as ethnic, gender and even subjectively opinionated minorities as the majority.
Tbh, Morgana does feel to me Like a Brother to the Protagonist. ...and I mean both types of Brother.
The bog Bro who Shows the way of the to us unknown and being a good Guide.
And the little Brother who you wanna give away For Adoption and Hope you never have to See him ever again! ^~^
Morgana is basically a little brother to the rest of the PT, which on top of being their initial mentor, I believe that his ego should've been let down gently, like Puss In Boots in The Last Wish.
Maybe he just needed an actual antagonist that reflected his lack of identity, like a Ralsei/Jevil/Spamton type of character rather than Morgana just robbing Haru of her chance to stand up to her father. Maybe he could've blown up at the PT before or after the Beach or the Okumura arc and challenged Ryuji to a 1v1 in Mementos. Maybe that could've been a better way of letting everything out that's been in him, or at least even tell the PT that he needs to prove to them that he matters. Maybe the Mementos battle with Ryuji could reflect Akechi's fight with Joker.
Also, with that Able-Bodied thing, I do have Autism, ADHD, Depression, PTSD, and while I have been able to deal with it internally, especially when I've been perfectly happy having these Nuerodivergence when I interacted with my own fictional worlds, I've been fustrated with everyone else externally because I know I tried, and try so hard to be good enough and patient enough for and with everyone else who didn't understand that when I was in my abusive school. While I can't understand your disability, as far as I can relate is how I sometimes feel like I'm in a Spring-Lock suit and that my body could break down or just go crazy without me constantly controlling or managing my body sometimes, though aside from that I don't think I can relate to your disability nor say much of anything else except I could've seen that you have found a way to live with it just like how all other disabled people can learn and have learned to deal with their disabilities. And for Morgana, honestly, I do see how him wanting to be human to have all of the human things would've been his wish that Maruki ableistically granted for him.
this video changed my outlook on Morgana a lot. i always sympathized with him for feeling useless but the points you bring up take that to a new level
It might just be that I’ve grown up with cats and always loved them, but I’ve also always had a soft spot for Morgana. However much he might protest it, he really does act like a cat. I wish the game had done more to show him and Ryuji developing a healthy dynamic, but beyond that I really like the little guy. Every time he worried about whether he was human or what would happen to him once our quest was over I just wanted to say to him “You’re my friend. Whatever you were before, whatever you will be, that won’t change.”
About time someone gave some respect to my favorite video game cat.
Great vid! I actually dont like morgana much as a character but he and Teddie have a interesting arc where it really makes you think what it really means to be "human"
They both feel a bit different, I personally think Teddie represents existentialism: he fears that he's "empty" and has no meaning, but discovers that he defines the meaning in his life for himself.
Thank youuu~ and yeah I feel like P4 and P5 would've missed a lot if they didn't have the arcs of these mascot characters
Nice work as usual!
Thank you for the hard work dedication, sacrifices and passion!
All the best and take care! Stay safe! =)
I've always liked Morgana, that might be down to me being a cat person though. Also could be because how insufferable I found Teddie and his bloody bear puns though
1:49 for some reason, this gives off the vibe Morgana’s gonna sing “I’m an international……SUPER SPYYYYYYY!!!!!” lol
YES, THANK YOU! Although there is no real surprise why many people dislike him, a lot of your reasonings and thoughts on him are exactly what I think about him as a whole and his worst flaws are actually why I like him. I think he's a cute little cheeky kid mascot, but what makes him great is how much he offers other than cuteness and how much he helps the group at the start. I've always had his mental age in my mind whenever he acts up in the group, be it playfulness or defensiveness. I really do think Morgana is the heart of the team, for better or for worse. And I do think it's a shame that his more interesting attributes get overshadowed either due to bias or just poor writing choices. (Because come on lbr, that blowup of his could've been handled better storywise) Wonderfully put together! I adore my little kitty bro :)
- Edit: Okay, so I typed this before I even finished the video, so I never thought I'd be making a note about his human form. But it's truly interesting how fictional characters can affect you and make you think when it comes to the tiniest details, so hearing you talk about Mona and his human form and how it resonates with you is truly fascinating. It's been a while since I played Royal and the fact that Mona's human form is the short lived thing did not help me retain his words all that much, but it makes sense how significant his two lives made him value his true reality all the more. I'm sorry I don't have much to say for this part because it's the part I remember the least, but I was happy to hear your perspective on him and what Mona had to offer. Again, lovely work
Morgana? Didn't think this woukd actually happen given the whole supernatural stuff around his arc.
Also, I complain a lot, but I actually do love Morgana's character arc, the whole amnesia giving him anxiety about being useful and that getting ramped up to 10 with Futaba's recruitment. Though, it is very wasted by most of his scenes just being petty and unreasonably rude interactions with Ryuji on both sides.
Didn't want to leave out any of the cast haha.
I can definitely see why Mona's conflict with Ryuji would turn people off, but glad to hear you enjoyed Mona's development of not basing his self-worth over his usefulness.
I think a have a lot's of thoughts about Mona and he is my favourite character. He is always there for Joker, he is taking care of him as much as Joker takes care of Morgana (reminds him to go to sleep, reminds him of missions, helps to answer questions and during exam, and generally he is there, and just that means so much). But also, him always saying that he is human? And then almost everyone disrespects it, make fun of it or don't take serious... I'm a trans person, and god that always hits me. Bc people constantly misgender me (my first language has more gendered forms) and a lot of people who I was close to rediculed me or never took serious. Yeah, gender and human/cat form are not the same, but god it hit me so much, as I discovered this game on the pick of my disphoria and self-realisation. So yeah, I have lot's of thoughts on human Mona...
Feel for ya, I got DYT-6 dystonia, its similar to Parkinson’s and I need deep brain stimulators to just move normally, even then I require a wheelchair or walker to get around long distance. Respect sister.
Mona: I'm useless. I'm leaving!
Me: nooooooo...! Media! COME BACK MONA-CHAN D:
0:05 Me [Having an Ace attorney (Turnabout Trial) Breakdown): THAT SCENE! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Edit: I like Morgana, but damn that writing in that arc. (I don't think I will ever let it go.)
My brother watched this before I did and when Lady said something along the lines of Ann and Morgana couldn't work because Morgana is a cat, I heard him yell, "HE IS NOT A CAT!" and slam his desk
I think Morgana should have been Puss in Boots. In the anime FLCL they reframe the story of Marquis de Carabais as a "lie becoming the truth" and considering the cruddy fake out with Morgana's origin, I think it would have been a really good twist if he was consciously or unconsciously working againsg the the thieves to lead them on the road of ruin. But in the end as a rebel he would betray his old master for his new one in Joker (parallel to the story where the Puss technically switches masters after his first dies and becomes owned by his son) and then his "lie" of being puss in boots and makinv the protagonist the Marquis (Joker) would come true as it did in the story. I feel like it would tie into both the rebellion theme of the game and the psych side of a "Persona" in one go.
The Morgana haters are such a pain and half. The story outright tells us that Morgana is the living incarnation of hope. His "simping" over Ann is a narrative representation of the hopes that can never be. And much like the character Morgan Le Fay for which he is named, he guided Joker to humanity's collective hope, just as Morgan guided Arthur to Excalibur. No one ever talks about this when going on their Morgana hate pilgrimage. That in the end, Morgana was the winning move by guiding Joker to humanity's collective hope, thus granting Joker the means to defeat Yaldabaoth. Even if you were to go by criteria, and say you don't like his design, or his personality, his lore alone puts him above many other characters in the series. And I'm suppose to run with this narrative that Morgana is a trash character? STOP THE CAP! People aren't very honest, nor do they pay attention all that well.
i didn't even think about that aspect of his character tbh. But thats really neat.
and yea, Morgana haters are a thousand times more annoying then Morgana ever was
@@knotknight514Had to make a few edits, but yes. Thankfully, most of the Morgana hate is almost exclusively in the west. In Japan, Morgana is easily one of the most popular characters in P5. Many in the west can't seem to tell the difference between bad writing and a character flaw. The Magician archetype has ALWAYS had the character flaw of immaturity. People didn't complain about Junpei or Yosuke....back then anyway. Now, people are beginning to turn on Yosuke. Seems that the west hates Magician characters...for being Magicians.
@Ninja07Keaton I know, it's such a shame cause the magician boys are such bros as well.
I also wanna add that a huge part of why Morgana is so popular in Japan is cause he's a mascot, and Japan LOVES mascots.
It also seems like persona fans just don't really get good writing in general. Yukari, Ken and Mishsima are also characters that I know the fan base has a lot of hate for, despite the fact that their characters go through a lot of growth throughout their respective stories.
@ight514Indeed. Yukari and Ken especially. Yukari was a girl who, from the age of 6, had to deal with a ton of trauma. She lost her father due to the catastrophe that started the events of P3 proper. Said father was blamed for the catastrophe, and society decided that the daughter would bare the "sins" of her father. 10 years of being hated and shunned, and players act like she had no reason to lash out, that her resentment toward the Kirijo family isn't warranted.
Yukari was needlessly hostile toward Mitsuru early on, but it made perfect sense why. Mitsuru may have been innocent, but she's related to the guilty by blood. It was her grandfather's research that set all of this in motion after all. With that narrative context, Yukari is....FAR more graceful than most would be in that situation. More than half the player base condemning her would have gone to war or worse. Though I suppose trauma always seems insignificant to outsiders looking inward.
Ken? Does it really take a genius to understand a child; emotionally scarred from watching his mother be killed before his eyes, resulting in him becoming hellbent on confronting his mother's killer? Not at all. But we've entered an era of illiteracy, so even the fundamentals of storytelling are lost to most now.
Mishima...Well, most people in the West don't like the Moon characters in general. The Moon archetype is about characters dealing with self hatred, and reflecting on themselves. Imagine the irony of self reflection being frowned upon by the very audience that sorely needs self reflection? The Moon characters are hated for the same reason Jerry from Rick and Morty, Luke from Tales of the Abyss, Machias and Alisa from Trails of Cold Steel are hated. The west are volatile when viewing characters that are too much like themselves. They don't like these characters PRECISELY because they relate to them, they are everything they hate about themselves. At that point, it's an individual problem that those close to said individuals were clearly too soft to confront them about. Probably aren't even aware of their "friend"s turmoil.
Can definitely say I’m surprised at HOW MUCH people hate him. I wasn’t a fan but he’s really not the worst. I’m sure most of it stems from not being able to go out at night for other players.
The fight between him and Ryuji was both of them being dumb kids, in my opinion and that should be expected. They’re not always going to be rational, especially under so much stress.
I was likewise annoyed with Morgana about the PT being so passive and driven by public opinion.
I just wish there was more emphasis on Haru throughout that arc. As a late team member, it’s a shame that Mona and Ryuji’s fight is a large part of her introduction. But after this video, it makes more sense to me.
maybe it's just because I'm a cat person but I've never hated Morgana. the first half of the Okumura arc is a headache, but blaming it all on Morgana is shitty at best.
starting Persona in general off with Royal might've helped a bit tbh (and the fact that I heavily relate to his situation with not feeling useful or worthy in my little group of friends), since i can't compare him accurately to past characters that are said to be similar, which also includes his ‘go to sleep’ self. still, hearing Freedom and Peace for the first time broke my heart, and I had a hunch that Morgana was related to the very depths of Mementos as early as when he introduced us to it. learning how he was related to it fucking shattered me. and when the Thieves were getting erased from existence, I dunno man. I was in tears even before he started disappearing. then seeing this cat rest its head for the last time and fucking dissipate out of reality fucked me up.
Royal Morgana admitting he IS a cat got me clapping. the lil guy accepted himself, finally. it was nice.
he's nowhere near my favourite, but I still really really like him. "hissy fits" and all.
I really wish I had more time to play Royal so I could join everyone on the last sections of those videos :( One day...
Thanks for another great character analysis video!
Got any plans for future Persona character analysis, or do you want to take a break after all the P5 work?
I still plan on covering the symbolism of the cast's personas (like the series I did for P3).
I'll also be starting my P4G replay soon so I can start making proper videos on the P4 cast ^^
@@LadyVirgilia Looking forward to it!
@@LadyVirgilia ooo, so you’ll cover kanji? Yes please. That guy sorely needs some proper analysis. There are still so many people that think he’s meant to be a gay stereotype, i could write an actual essay debunking that. His shadow self, his relationship with naoto, his past experiences with masculinity, the symbolism of his arc, all of this is so interesting and a key component in why i love him so much. Kanji is the best boy and you cannot change my mind.
Morgana is the most misunderstood character in the Persona series which personally I find extremely frustrating because I believe he's one of the most well written and human characters ATLUS has created. I always found his ribbing on Ruiji more like friendly banter until his anxiety over his belonging in the group boils over and causes him to lash out. As for the "GO TO BED!" thing, that's more because he's used as a vehicle for gameplay mechanics and is not reflective of his actual character.
Also keep in mind that Morgana during his lowest moments shows a lot of traits of the reversed Magician Arcana which is supposed to be a card representing resourcefulness and confidence but reversed represents insecurity and uncertainty.
Any plans to do videos on the Strikers characters? As well as the PT's (subtle) growth in Strikers?
Yes I still plan on doing a video for Zenkichi and Sophie eventually!
After having finished the game I don't really understand why there's so much hate for the little guy. He's adorable and always pretty dependable. And his arch during the Okumora chapter was pretty good too.
I think what most disturbed me about Mona's human form was that it was a grown ass man.
Like, I always pictured a human Morgana as around 13 at oldest. That cat is a child and you can not tell me otherwise.
I never understood the hate for Morgana and love for Ryuji. For me it’s the opposite. The Phantom Thieves owed a lot to Morgana, they wouldn’t have existed as a group if not for him. Meanwhile, Ryuji is dumb, loud and picks fights every conversation. He never changes beyond that and instead spends a lot of the game yelling to anyone in earshot that they’re the Phantom Thieves and they deserve credit damnit!
Morgana has a reason to act the way he does, while Ryuji is just being Ryuji.
I personally love both even if I like Ryuji more Morgana is an extremely close second. From their Thief Costumes to their Personas they basically perfect if they turned their bickering down a couple notches.
100% agree with pretty much everything in this!
Honestly, I always liked Morgana, but... Well firstly he's a cat (or at the very least looks a lot like one - still not 100% sure if he totally qualifies as a 'cat'?) and I really really really like cats so uh. there's that.
...But also, I can really relate to his whole "feeling out of place even if in a close group of friends & basing a lot of self value on if is being 'useful'" - the first part especially 'cause I'm autistic, so while that's obviously not the same as Morgana not being human.... It's something that is apart of me and can't be changed, kinda like how with Morgana he can't change who/what he is but still can lead to those sort of "inherently out of place - even if realistically should belong" feelings. So, I kind of ended up being able to see where he was coming from pretty fast with his character arc, and it made him feel more sympathetic to me.
Also, finally someone else who agrees he's basically a kid!! For some reason I don't see a lot of people view him like that, but I always have? Oldest I've been able to imagine him if he had a 'real' human form is like.... 13-ish? And that also kinda made some of his attitude make more sense. But most of the time I don't see people agree with that??? (Also - I view him enough as Little Kid that it's to the point that his human appearance in Royal caught me super off-guard because.... I was imagining him to look like a little kid!! Not.... That!! (also the VA change threw me off too)
Honestly, my only big issue is his development really happening in the Okumura Palace arc because... Well Haru's right there. And that's her dad. Why are we putting the attention on the talking cat more than... Okumura's literal daughter?? But I feel that's more a "issue with the writing/pacing" thing than "morgana as a character himself" thing. ...I also just kinda feel that somehow maybe his development should've maybe gone more with Mementos? No idea how it'd work into the overall game story, but given how he has those nightmares that take place in Mementos and his focus on that... I just feel it'd fit more than... Haru's dad??
Anyways morgana ramble over I just wanted to say these 'cause this video prompted the Morgana Thoughts!
You’re all saying that Morgana simps for Ann a lot,but you are forgetting that when you date her on Valentine’s Day Morgana just sighs like saying “well,who said dreams came true anyway”
The fact that the voice actor for human morgona is Nagito scares me
or how someone made to regret every time they relied on someone else as they grew up might want to start their own business.
But why is he a he but named after the witch from arthurian lore in a game with a holy grail?
Hey LadyV, are you going to be doing Zenkichi and Akane, and Sophie from P5S??
Love mona
Mona is the absolute best. Love him mor ethan Teddie, who leaned a bit to hard into the whole "mascot" thing.
Kinda annoyed that Mona doesn't get his human form at the end but Teddy does..... I found Teddy extremely annoying compared to Mona. Also about that blow-up between Mona and Ryuji, while I understand it needed to happen to progress the plot, I kinda wish Joker didn't just stand silently on the side-lines while the two were actively blowing up at each other. It felt unnatural that he just sits there and let's the scene play out.
Would have been better if the fighting was happening while Joker was out, he returns to the cafe to catch the tail-end of the argument that occurs and Mona leaves as soon as he rushes in, preventing him from stopping it, only for Makoto, Ann, and Yusuke to recap what happened from the beginning to Joker before the gang would go out and look for him. That would have felt far more natural.
Probably one of the greatest characters ever created by the japenese.... X3
I luv this lil' bastard! XP
Okumura arc
God dammit...... Morgana come back and help us travel The Metaverse is to big without you
Royal arc
0_0
Who are you !?
Wait, you're Mona. And is that Bryce Papenbrook voicing your Human self ?
Unrelated, but is your named based on Virgilia from Umineko no Naku Koro ni? I've been reading it recently (only in the middle of Banquet) so I've just saw the correlation.
Yes it is haha.
When They Cry as a series has had a big impact on my life, so it's so cool whenever someone gets the reference.
Hope you enjoy your time with Umi! I just finished an Umi reread myself so I can finally watch the new HIgurashi anime with fresh context in mind :)
Mona is so cute he needs more love
Honestly, there's only two things I didn't like about Morgana.
1) He's a retread of Teddie's character arc. To be fair, it's a very much improved take on the archetype, but it still felt disappointing already knowing exactly where they were going with his character, right down to the reveal and the ending.
2) They went with the cutesy generic mascot design, instead of Mona's earlier concept art, which was way more striking and interesting. That concept would've felt right at home with the other Phantom Thieves' Metaverse outfits, it would've made the whole "Monster Cat" running gag actually make sense, and it would've made me not laugh at the Rank 6 flashback trying to be shocking.
For the most part, I really like Morgana, and the moments where you bond with him work really well. I actually really liked the runaway arc too, how he felt like he was being left behind, and that the PT were getting derailed from their original mission. I just keep getting caught up in thinking about what could've been, which applies to more aspects of P5 than just Mona.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on that second one. Would it have been interesting? Yes however the internet cannot handle that. Look what they've done to poor Vaporeon.
@@Galaxykuma Have you not seen what the internet did to regular Morgana? 🤨
@@petergriscom3431 No, and I'm keeping it that way. (Outside of the 5th palace part.)
Compared to the other “mascot” characters, Mona is more tolerable than Teddie.
As goofy as Teddie is, I can’t help but get annoyed when he only moves if babes are involved, and male characters are left to fend for themselves, Yosuke especially (P4 protag is the exception).
yeah, I personally prefer Mona to Teddie too.
Okay hear me out ……. A zenkichi video
How about how the underrated standard PT members (Panther, Fox, Noir) improved in Strikers.
This slander of my boi cannot stand. Morgana, despite being a cat, has a real chance with Ann.
The only parts of Mona I don’t like are the distraction from Haru’s arc (which is a writing problem and not a him problem) and the fact that he never apologizes to Ryuji for treating him like crap as well. Two pretty big things but they don’t ruin the character.
Other than that, he’s a very loyal friend to Joker and I love how much he guides his new thief. He really fills the role Igor set for him well. Besides, without him, Mementos would be a pain to go through. He’s a good buddy, just an insecure buddy.
Morgana was charmingly annoying, in the way a kid sibling is. I found his nagging occasionally irritating, but he provided a useful niche on the team as The Wind Guy and The Getaway Driver. I found his crush on Ann a little irksome, especially with her arc being tied to being desired by a guy she's doesn't reciprocate the feelings for. It felt very very Kid Sibling, and it was largely innocent, but rubbed me the wrong way. This didn't make me hate Morgana so much as wish for some more nuanced writing on the topic of desirability and non-reciprocal desire.
I got annoyed at the Ryuji/Morgana fight in the Okumura arc, but it was again more about frustration with how the wroters forced characters I liked onto a conflict than anything native to the the characters themselves.
I found the receal of what Morfana was in Mementos actually charming - he's the Son of God (Igor) aent to earth to save humanity from it's sons : basically catboy Jesus! I found that charming, and a nice validation of him. He was made to save the Velvet Room from The Evil Demiurge and he did that by under standing humanity and rallying folks together. That was charming.
I found the Third Semester revelation was intriguing, too. He was able to get his wish, and seeing him be a human person was quite charming. I actually felt like rooting for him and Ann , or at least hoping they'd address that crush. Would Ann now notice him as someone attractove? Or was he just not the sort of person she'd be into, and it was just an unfortunate case of different people with different desires. (I actually would have liked that explored in relation to the theme of Maruki's World - Morgana wished to be human so bad, only to realize that being human was not the be-all, end all for his desires. Maruki thinks he can make a perfect world, but human difference xan still produce pain, and that's no one's fault - that's just life. IMO it would work better than have Joker spend a week subtly and not so subtly telling his loved ones their happiness was a lie and they should reject things like dead loved ones back and having healthy relationships with them, or that their dreams need to be shattered Because Joker's conception of Reality must take precedent. )
nice video persona is not my thing but still a very enjoyable video
Appreciate the watch anyway sora ^^
I was wondering how you’d approach this, since Mona doesn’t really have much to do with P5, thematically. He does deal with overcoming adversity, and being an outcast, but the story’s largely about how societal issues lead to the injustice and oppression the PTs face on a daily basis, and Mona’s arc is just completely divorced from that. Not a big deal, but it’s like he’s from a different story sometimes lmao.
Mona’s probably my least favourite Phantom Thief, but besides his bs in the Okumura arc, I never found him that annoying. I’ll take him a million times over Teddie, at least. Teddie singlehandedly turned P4 from an 8.5 to an 8 for me
I want to like Morgana, I really do, but it seems like his flaws way him down wayyy too much. I love a characters with flaws, its what makes them realistic, but Morgana's flaws are so overpowingg to his relationships with the rest of the PT I can't help but hate him. The big fight between him and Ryuji was the turning point for me. The writing tries to frame it as Ryuji's fault which is super confusing cause Ryuji wanted to keep going with PT stuff. But of course the writing wouldn't allow Morgana to get mad at the girls (the main people who wanted to put things on hold) so it has to be Ryuji's (the butt monkey of the game) fault. I heard he's better in Strikers so I'm looking forward to hopefully changing my views on Morgana
999 to 1k
Morgana’s arc would’ve been better suited as his own palace or at least a separate encounter from Haru’s. Morgana is the one who starts fights with ryuji and then gets mad when ryuji fights back. He needed to grow up and mature and not take Haru’s spotlight who feels severely underutilized particularly because Morgana is there.
I want to like Morgana, I really do.
But between white knighting for Ann, his major inferiority complex, and his general "I'm better and smarter than everyone else" vibes make it very difficult to like him. The fact that the second Makoto shows up he starts throwing a fit just makes him grating.
I liked Morgana as a navigator much more than Futaba
Hot take: Morgana has to be a she, because...:
Then Morgana would be a species-confused gender-confused possibly-cat with a fetish for young women in cat suits.
Some things are just too weird to be allowed to be wrong.
Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me but ok. Everyone has a right to their own opinions. IMO he is the worst character in P5.
Why for?
@@xuto2693 Throwimg shade at Ryuji and can’t take it when Ryuji throws shade back at him. Also the part right before the 5th palace and the the end of the 5th palace. That palace was about
Haru and her dad yet at the end instead of Haru getting a moment Morgana gets a moment. IMO bad
writing at its finest right there.
@@eli951000
They were written together for most of that arc, I think it makes sense for him to have a moment at the end, tidy things up. There wasn't really a better moment.
His getting upset with ryuji is a bit more nuanced, but a lot of people can't pick up on it. Or don't care.
@@xuto2693 Either way he is still the worst character in the game imo
@@eli951000tbh most ryuji apologists just like ryuji cuz he's a 'bro' character. Morgana said wrong things to ryuji too but he never targeted his insecurities or throw shade at him for having a broken leg or not having a dad. Ryuji on the other hand was wayyy out of line when he directly called him useless. Also the phantom thieves couldn't have made it without morgana. He was the one who introduced the metaverse, told how calling cards work, how it's important not to kill the shadow at the palace. And also he was the main source of transportation without which it would've been very difficult for the phantom thieves to complete Futaba's palace. Ryuji was better in battle sure but you could still say he's a little replaceable.
As a cat owner I can admit that yes cats are hotter than want pets 10 minutes later