I dunno if i missed it, but its important to note that akechi and joker are suppose to be opposites. they're both tricksters, given the same power but one had no one helping him while the other was given all the stuff he needed to succeed. Fake Igor even says many times that "the game is rigged and unfair" and you could think its talking joker and the stuff that happened to him to lead him to where he is, but also you can look at it as akechi being screwed over and not being able to develop his powers as joker was because Fake Igor was picking and choosing favorites until the end
I briefly touched on that when I said that one of them had friends, and the other didn’t. That being said, I do think I could’ve gotten into a little more detail on that. Then again, I feel like Igor and fake Igor could be their own video.
Hell, imagine him meeting any of the other Thieves earlier in life, or even any of the cast from the prior Persona games. Given how he kept being bounced around in the foster system throughout much of his life (presumably until he was 15 and able to prove he could live on his own), I could easily see an AU where one of those Foster families he wound up being in could be in say Tatsumi Port Island where Persona 3 takes place, or even managing to be in Inaba when Yu is meant to be staying over for the year. Considering how at least to me how Persona 5 is for all intents set in 2016, that would mean he would be roughly around the same age as Ken Amada was in Persona 3 timeline wise. Heck, could see the two Justice boy's bonding over the shared loss of their mother's, Ken losing his cause of the whole accident with Shinjiro's Persona going crazy, and Goro having his mom end up being driven to suicide due to feeling as though she was a failure of a mother and their overall situation. Hell, part of me even wonder's if the two justice boy's might somehow be related on some level, cousins perhaps? Again, it's more of AU territory, but I for one can't help but feel there are a fair few things that are parallel between the two of them, both in their overall looks and how they deal with similar backgrounds, but at least in Ken's case he has the rest of SEES to help guide him away from simply seeking revenge, whereas Goro didn't have anyone to dissuade him from wanting to take revenge at the one he blames for ruining his life. That they both also share the same arcana just provides even more of such an idea in my eyes. Granted, I am aware the finer details are wildly different between the two, but it's nice to think about regardless.
I like the idea that he survived and managed to get help. He either does time for the crimes committed if possible or if the whole supernatural part causes issues, maybe makes up for it by actually doing normal detective work without having to fabricate things. He has the brains for it. Also I like the idea that the reason Akechi was alive in maruki's palace is because that was joker's wish. This means that joker believes on some level that Akechi could be saved and helped.
I could definitely see Joker wanting that for Akechi. I doubt he’d be officially part of the group (especially without Haru’s vote), but I wouldn’t mind if he actually needed up being alive.
I absolutely hate the idea that he's alive, and it's because it completely cheapens, if not invalidates his entire character arc from Royal. The reason he gets so much appreciation and respect is because he was willing to disappear and give up his life in order to put the world right, as lot of people see it as sort of a psuedo redemption. However if it turns out he was alive the entire time, then he was never in danger of disappearing and thus it wasn't any kind of sacrifice.
@@animeegotists7527 Futaba despises him for killing her mother too. If you ever play the card game in the Thieves Den you'll notice that you get a random selection of teammates to play with, but Haru and Futaba will never be at the table if Akechi is there. Apparently that was done deliberately.
If there is a Persona character that splits the fan base in some capacity you can bet chances are good they are the most layered or well written character in the group. Akechi Supremacy baybay
i'm suprised this video doesn't have more traction. genuinely one of my favorite goro akechi analysis videos, and that's saying a lot! i really enjoyed that the whole point of akechi being inherently controversial was a focus. i tend to notice people rooting too far in either direction (ex: he's a victim, thus should be excused vs. he's an irredeemable monster that everyone should hate) and both definitely feel dismissive of the fact that he's.. kind of supposed to be morally ambiguous. that's his whole THING. even canon itself is ambiguous with him in so many ways. people who didn't rank 8 akechi's confidant won't even get the end cutscene where ren thinks he might've seen him, so if YOU didn't like him, it seems that neither does ren at that point. just like many of the other points in the game, his morality was MADE to be up for interpretation. it was made to make people think, yet i feel like a lot of heavy akechi antis AND supporters just.. don't do that. he's too interesting to be a badly written character, but did so much wrong it can be hard to empathize or even appreciate that. his past was awful, but so were his actions. he could have done so much differently, yet he never got the opportunity to. he never got the love he so desperately *needed*. still, he chooses to do the right thing in the end for himself, AND for everyone else. he's a mess, a contradiction, and a perfect mix of good and bad- i think that's what makes his character so special. thanks a bunch for the video :) definitely subbed after this!
That genuinely means a lot; thank you so much! Even as somebody who wanted him to have some redemption, I fully acknowledge that he did some horrible stuff. And in hindsight, it does make sense that we never got to learn if he had truly changed or not. You summed him up perfectly, he's a giant mess. But that's what makes him interesting. Thanks again for the comment; if you have any other characters you'd want me to discuss, please let me know!
I love Akechi, but I don't have any opinion either way on him getting redemption, mostly because he doesn't seem to want it himself. His desires I think are summed up pretty well in: "This. Is. Great. I feel so alive! I'll spread chaos as far as the eye can see!" He's not interested in being good, or even in being evil. He's just a chaos bringer and what happens happens.
I think Akechi is a great character that truly deserves a redemption arc.. Preferably in a spin-off Persona 5 or 6.. But something MORE than a DLC.. It'd have to be a complete game..🥰🤩😍
I would like to think that he survived and pulled himself together. He has many mental issues that need sorted out from his life. I would like to think that he decided to atone for his crimes and that’s why he seems to be escorted by people in the end glimpse.
Nice video. For me Akechi is an interesting character, always lived to excel, be so great that Shido would never think he would betray him...yet he took the wrong way in basiaclly everthing. Akechi has talent, intellect and skills but always took the wrong decision even when he had the chance to change everything for better, only because he was obsessed with the hate on Shido, and then fell partially because of his jealousy of Joker, seeing him as a rival BUT always hating his guts because he can actually do things for the better while improving his status and himself. Akechi managed to get into the Phantoms side, he had a solid group to make things right... but then he blew everything because was obsessed into killing Shido on his terms and betrayed them. Royal basically makes a better version of Akechi, where his way of "going the wrong way" is basically his theme. He knows he will die if he changes Maruki plans, yet he did.
Exactly! I have some gripes with Royal, but I LOVE how much they give him. His rivalry feels so much more fleshed out. Especially with him telling Joker he hates him and wants a duel. I feel hurt by what he does, but I do wonder if they could’ve changed him. Not necessarily a conquering hero, but maybe some form of happiness. Thanks for the love!
The only 'rumor' I'd accept in terms of a game where Akechi is alive is if an older Akechi takes up a mentorship-style role to the next group of Metaverse users, and one of the final Palaces/Dungeons/Whatever they end up being called being one based on Akechi himself.
Yeah, I know, I messed up his nickname. I need to work on my enunciation more than anything haha. But like I said, let me know any other characters you’d like me to analyze!
1:19, honestly, on the outset, this makes double sense. On the one hand, if we were to believe at face value and in isolation from this statement that he wasn't that good at solving mysteries and was only good at perpetrating them before "solving them", we can see this as just another piece of his own game being moved. However, if we were to take it another way, say, taking into consideration every single move he made up to that point, it's incredibly obvious that this was him furthering Shido's Anti-PT agenda by giving Sae a false affirmation of what these Phantom Thieves are doing, then she can do something reckless that'll benefit everyone (even the soon-to-be-murdered SIU Director). And technically, from the point of view from everyone else, that's kind of what the PT are doing, technically. Of course, they aren't hurting anyone but the power that they wield can only be monitored by them, not by the media and therefore the general public, so they can't know how their powers work, and if we were to take the facade of the government's at face value, they can't reasonably find out what they're doing and how to regulate or stop them if they do end up murdering someone else. It's effectively a Superhero/Supervillain vs the common folk and the government, the public and the government can't defend themselves because they can't even reasonably be asked to understand the motive or method behind the Supervillain's actions, meaning they can't track down and prepare for a sudden dump of laughing gas or fear toxin into the river, or be able to combat Hydra's weapons or various other stuff like that. Heck, even Spider-Man can't be in every place at once saving people, and that's not even adding on top of the fact that he's still a teenage high-schooler graduating into college. Basically, people can't defend themselves from a power that is just waltzing around, deciding who lives and who dies like they're meaningless characters. At any point, anyone could be a victim of a mental shutdown or a psychotic breakdown, and the PT can't come out and tell everyone what exactly is going on because A) it would be really hard to explain, not to mention dangerous and potentially meaninglessly arrogant considering The Existence of Yaldaboath and its stupid Holy Grail, B) The Government could track them down if they were to spill out secrets, which even if the PT don't get arrested Goro Akechi could just pay them a Black Mask visit down to Mementos if they choose to hide and/or run there, and C) Let's just say that the stars align and that the PT can confess to people about the existence of another world? There are so many people that would want to take advantage of the Metaverse that it's not even funny, so the few people, like Sae and Sojiro, that don't want to take advantage of The Metaverse can't really do much about it in their corner because, as, Lavenza once put it, "This is truly an unjust game. Your chances of winning are almost none." The whole point of this entire experiment/game is to put the Phantom Thieves basically on the spot as Public Anti-Heroes while the Government get to play the pure-hearted defenders of the people while in reality becoming slowly corrupted and distorted. So basically, Goro Akechi figured out Yaldaboath's whole motive and plan by complete and utter accident and decided to do absolutely *NOTHING* about it. As Adachi would put it "Gee, what a hero." Well, ThoughtBubble had a very different opinion on Yoshizawa, tbh.
That's a great point! Honestly, that's why I like the fact that people are a bit more skeptical about the Thieves. There aren't really any forces keeping them in check. Which makes Akechi's point a bit more valid. As for Yoshizawa...that'll be a fun topic haha!
I dunno if i missed it, but its important to note that akechi and joker are suppose to be opposites. they're both tricksters, given the same power but one had no one helping him while the other was given all the stuff he needed to succeed. Fake Igor even says many times that "the game is rigged and unfair" and you could think its talking joker and the stuff that happened to him to lead him to where he is, but also you can look at it as akechi being screwed over and not being able to develop his powers as joker was because Fake Igor was picking and choosing favorites until the end
I briefly touched on that when I said that one of them had friends, and the other didn’t. That being said, I do think I could’ve gotten into a little more detail on that. Then again, I feel like Igor and fake Igor could be their own video.
Ah yes. I too experimented with drugs as a youth
His English voice actor can really sell him being angry and unhinged.
If only Akechi met Joker earlier in his life
I think it would’ve saved Akechi.
Hell, imagine him meeting any of the other Thieves earlier in life, or even any of the cast from the prior Persona games. Given how he kept being bounced around in the foster system throughout much of his life (presumably until he was 15 and able to prove he could live on his own), I could easily see an AU where one of those Foster families he wound up being in could be in say Tatsumi Port Island where Persona 3 takes place, or even managing to be in Inaba when Yu is meant to be staying over for the year. Considering how at least to me how Persona 5 is for all intents set in 2016, that would mean he would be roughly around the same age as Ken Amada was in Persona 3 timeline wise. Heck, could see the two Justice boy's bonding over the shared loss of their mother's, Ken losing his cause of the whole accident with Shinjiro's Persona going crazy, and Goro having his mom end up being driven to suicide due to feeling as though she was a failure of a mother and their overall situation. Hell, part of me even wonder's if the two justice boy's might somehow be related on some level, cousins perhaps? Again, it's more of AU territory, but I for one can't help but feel there are a fair few things that are parallel between the two of them, both in their overall looks and how they deal with similar backgrounds, but at least in Ken's case he has the rest of SEES to help guide him away from simply seeking revenge, whereas Goro didn't have anyone to dissuade him from wanting to take revenge at the one he blames for ruining his life. That they both also share the same arcana just provides even more of such an idea in my eyes. Granted, I am aware the finer details are wildly different between the two, but it's nice to think about regardless.
I like the idea that he survived and managed to get help. He either does time for the crimes committed if possible or if the whole supernatural part causes issues, maybe makes up for it by actually doing normal detective work without having to fabricate things. He has the brains for it. Also I like the idea that the reason Akechi was alive in maruki's palace is because that was joker's wish. This means that joker believes on some level that Akechi could be saved and helped.
I could definitely see Joker wanting that for Akechi. I doubt he’d be officially part of the group (especially without Haru’s vote), but I wouldn’t mind if he actually needed up being alive.
Shadow OPS exist:
Akechi: Now that's Looks like a job to me!!!
Jomer: wait for me!!! Brazah
I absolutely hate the idea that he's alive, and it's because it completely cheapens, if not invalidates his entire character arc from Royal. The reason he gets so much appreciation and respect is because he was willing to disappear and give up his life in order to put the world right, as lot of people see it as sort of a psuedo redemption. However if it turns out he was alive the entire time, then he was never in danger of disappearing and thus it wasn't any kind of sacrifice.
@@animeegotists7527 Futaba despises him for killing her mother too. If you ever play the card game in the Thieves Den you'll notice that you get a random selection of teammates to play with, but Haru and Futaba will never be at the table if Akechi is there. Apparently that was done deliberately.
If there is a Persona character that splits the fan base in some capacity you can bet chances are good they are the most layered or well written character in the group. Akechi Supremacy baybay
He really does find a way of getting people to notice him!
i'm suprised this video doesn't have more traction. genuinely one of my favorite goro akechi analysis videos, and that's saying a lot!
i really enjoyed that the whole point of akechi being inherently controversial was a focus. i tend to notice people rooting too far in either direction (ex: he's a victim, thus should be excused vs. he's an irredeemable monster that everyone should hate) and both definitely feel dismissive of the fact that he's.. kind of supposed to be morally ambiguous. that's his whole THING. even canon itself is ambiguous with him in so many ways. people who didn't rank 8 akechi's confidant won't even get the end cutscene where ren thinks he might've seen him, so if YOU didn't like him, it seems that neither does ren at that point. just like many of the other points in the game, his morality was MADE to be up for interpretation. it was made to make people think, yet i feel like a lot of heavy akechi antis AND supporters just.. don't do that.
he's too interesting to be a badly written character, but did so much wrong it can be hard to empathize or even appreciate that. his past was awful, but so were his actions. he could have done so much differently, yet he never got the opportunity to. he never got the love he so desperately *needed*. still, he chooses to do the right thing in the end for himself, AND for everyone else.
he's a mess, a contradiction, and a perfect mix of good and bad- i think that's what makes his character so special. thanks a bunch for the video :) definitely subbed after this!
That genuinely means a lot; thank you so much!
Even as somebody who wanted him to have some redemption, I fully acknowledge that he did some horrible stuff. And in hindsight, it does make sense that we never got to learn if he had truly changed or not.
You summed him up perfectly, he's a giant mess. But that's what makes him interesting.
Thanks again for the comment; if you have any other characters you'd want me to discuss, please let me know!
Getting to know Akechi wasn't the mistake.. Atlus' mistake was that they didn't give us any closure regarding Akechi's fate..🤔
I love Akechi, but I don't have any opinion either way on him getting redemption, mostly because he doesn't seem to want it himself. His desires I think are summed up pretty well in: "This. Is. Great. I feel so alive! I'll spread chaos as far as the eye can see!" He's not interested in being good, or even in being evil. He's just a chaos bringer and what happens happens.
I can definitely understand that. And in a way that is what makes him so compelling over the games and anime.
I think Akechi is a great character that truly deserves a redemption arc.. Preferably in a spin-off Persona 5 or 6.. But something MORE than a DLC.. It'd have to be a complete game..🥰🤩😍
I’d buy it!
I would like to think that he survived and pulled himself together. He has many mental issues that need sorted out from his life. I would like to think that he decided to atone for his crimes and that’s why he seems to be escorted by people in the end glimpse.
I’d actually love to see that honestly.
@@animeegotists7527Me too..🙋🏽♀️🤩
Adachi: who are you?
Akechi: you but sexier.
I perfer adachi, but this is true (the current only reason is because I've beaten persona 4 not persona 5)
No 😂😂😂😂 Adachi is sexier sorry 😂😂😂😂🎉🎉🎉
Nice video. For me Akechi is an interesting character, always lived to excel, be so great that Shido would never think he would betray him...yet he took the wrong way in basiaclly everthing.
Akechi has talent, intellect and skills but always took the wrong decision even when he had the chance to change everything for better, only because he was obsessed with the hate on Shido, and then fell partially because of his jealousy of Joker, seeing him as a rival BUT always hating his guts because he can actually do things for the better while improving his status and himself.
Akechi managed to get into the Phantoms side, he had a solid group to make things right... but then he blew everything because was obsessed into killing Shido on his terms and betrayed them.
Royal basically makes a better version of Akechi, where his way of "going the wrong way" is basically his theme. He knows he will die if he changes Maruki plans, yet he did.
Exactly! I have some gripes with Royal, but I LOVE how much they give him. His rivalry feels so much more fleshed out. Especially with him telling Joker he hates him and wants a duel.
I feel hurt by what he does, but I do wonder if they could’ve changed him. Not necessarily a conquering hero, but maybe some form of happiness.
Thanks for the love!
Loved the video man! Keep up the good work!
Aye thanks so much for the support!
The only 'rumor' I'd accept in terms of a game where Akechi is alive is if an older Akechi takes up a mentorship-style role to the next group of Metaverse users, and one of the final Palaces/Dungeons/Whatever they end up being called being one based on Akechi himself.
Im glad we got confirmation that akechi survived in the p5t dlc
One of the things about Tactica I actually appreciate.
I didn't play tactica, I though that his dlc didn't confirm him being alive, or am I wrong? Is there some important dialogue?
Yeah, I know, I messed up his nickname. I need to work on my enunciation more than anything haha. But like I said, let me know any other characters you’d like me to analyze!
great video!
Aye thank you very much!
1:19, honestly, on the outset, this makes double sense. On the one hand, if we were to believe at face value and in isolation from this statement that he wasn't that good at solving mysteries and was only good at perpetrating them before "solving them", we can see this as just another piece of his own game being moved. However, if we were to take it another way, say, taking into consideration every single move he made up to that point, it's incredibly obvious that this was him furthering Shido's Anti-PT agenda by giving Sae a false affirmation of what these Phantom Thieves are doing, then she can do something reckless that'll benefit everyone (even the soon-to-be-murdered SIU Director). And technically, from the point of view from everyone else, that's kind of what the PT are doing, technically. Of course, they aren't hurting anyone but the power that they wield can only be monitored by them, not by the media and therefore the general public, so they can't know how their powers work, and if we were to take the facade of the government's at face value, they can't reasonably find out what they're doing and how to regulate or stop them if they do end up murdering someone else.
It's effectively a Superhero/Supervillain vs the common folk and the government, the public and the government can't defend themselves because they can't even reasonably be asked to understand the motive or method behind the Supervillain's actions, meaning they can't track down and prepare for a sudden dump of laughing gas or fear toxin into the river, or be able to combat Hydra's weapons or various other stuff like that. Heck, even Spider-Man can't be in every place at once saving people, and that's not even adding on top of the fact that he's still a teenage high-schooler graduating into college. Basically, people can't defend themselves from a power that is just waltzing around, deciding who lives and who dies like they're meaningless characters. At any point, anyone could be a victim of a mental shutdown or a psychotic breakdown, and the PT can't come out and tell everyone what exactly is going on because A) it would be really hard to explain, not to mention dangerous and potentially meaninglessly arrogant considering The Existence of Yaldaboath and its stupid Holy Grail, B) The Government could track them down if they were to spill out secrets, which even if the PT don't get arrested Goro Akechi could just pay them a Black Mask visit down to Mementos if they choose to hide and/or run there, and C) Let's just say that the stars align and that the PT can confess to people about the existence of another world? There are so many people that would want to take advantage of the Metaverse that it's not even funny, so the few people, like Sae and Sojiro, that don't want to take advantage of The Metaverse can't really do much about it in their corner because, as, Lavenza once put it, "This is truly an unjust game. Your chances of winning are almost none." The whole point of this entire experiment/game is to put the Phantom Thieves basically on the spot as Public Anti-Heroes while the Government get to play the pure-hearted defenders of the people while in reality becoming slowly corrupted and distorted.
So basically, Goro Akechi figured out Yaldaboath's whole motive and plan by complete and utter accident and decided to do absolutely *NOTHING* about it. As Adachi would put it "Gee, what a hero."
Well, ThoughtBubble had a very different opinion on Yoshizawa, tbh.
That's a great point! Honestly, that's why I like the fact that people are a bit more skeptical about the Thieves. There aren't really any forces keeping them in check. Which makes Akechi's point a bit more valid.
As for Yoshizawa...that'll be a fun topic haha!
First! Another great video!
Aye thanks so much, friendo!
6:35 No-one forgives him.