Vertical strength of brace is superior in an angle below 45 degrees. No stress on the fasteners. Because the fasteners are not needed. But over 45 degrees, the arm is distended, the brace wants to rock down, it's up to the fasteners to prevent a single degree of sag. At this point shear strength of wood and fasteners come into play. Stuff starts to move.
Best ad for a 2 screws and a wire I've ever seen. Joking aside, I really appreciated how well this was presented. All ads should genuinely teach something like this one did. I'm not sure why there is concern about going greater than 45 degrees, sure it is not 'as strong' but it is more than strong enough, and still the right direction. Another trick to point out, you can build the frame for a gate, wrap a single wire all the way around it and tighten just that, and then throw your diagonal compression bar in. FAST, SIMPLE, CHEAP and will last forever.
I don't have a gate. Great video. Good personal dynamics, well structured video, no useless info, explanations of why the physics matter, and solutions for different scenarios. 10/10
To be clear. This only applies to wood gates. Steel gates work vastly better under tension. As well as aluminum. I have built 60 or 70 as wide as 26 foot free span.
@hrmIwonder Think about a bicycle spoke. The wood method works because wood sucks at holding a fastener under tension for long term. Steel on the other hand does not care. When a fat kid swings on a steel gate. If it's compression bracing the brace needs to be strong enough to hold a compressed load of a fat kid a 20 feet. It takes a 2.5 to 3 inch sch40 pipe minimum. If under tention. A 1 inch pipe or even 1/4x1 flat stock is way more than strong enough to hold thay fat kid at 20 feet. I have built a LOT of steel and aluminum gates.
@tireballastserviceofflorid7771 thanks! That makes sense. You could suspend a 10lbs weight from a wire but it wouldn't support the weight under compression. I hadn't looked at it that way. Thanks again!
And that’s why almost all of our modern bridges are suspension bridges (under tension) vs compression arch bridges. Loved the fat kid example. Works pretty good in my imagination center of the brain.
FYI...and something you and readers may enjoy knowing (Timberwright here...so all wood joinery not "fasteners" or hardware in my work most often) the one that works in "compression" is called and "elbow brace" and the example working in tension is a "knee brace."..."X" bracing is just silly and adds unessary weight. These tradition "all wood joinery" doors, gates and stock gates are often built with green wood which is an added challenge in skill and understanding. Great video demonstration!!!
I would add this was an excellent video in general. No obnoxious background music, no (long) boring intro with fireworks, no silly flashing images in background, the humor was subtle and entertaining. I urge all video creators to strive for this. (P.S. I don't even have a gate.)
@@terry_willis You must be an older person, Nothing wrong with that. But, there is nothing wrong with adding a little, music, flare, and comedy to content in this day and age. I enjoy it as long as it's not a cut every 2 seconds, lol.
This video is incredibly helpful and easy to understand! The way you explained the difference between tension braces and compression braces is very intuitive, especially when demonstrating the importance of keeping the angle under 45° to maximize strength. I truly admire your attention to detail and how you’ve turned physics principles into practical solutions for gate construction!
@ For a longer gate that requires multiple compression braces and vertical supports, is there a limit on the length or the number of braces to ensure optimal durability without significantly increasing weight or cost? Has you tried other solutions that work even better?
It’s nice to see you explain the right way to build fences!! Not the usual on UA-cam!! I WORKED for NW fence in Spokane Valley /Idaho fence in Post Falls. Not an easy job NWF was 6days a week 10 hours a day 30 years ago work for the railroad these days…run my train past 5 fences I built that are still standing and makes me appreciate my engineer job more every time I pass them! Keep up the good work!
My mom had gate that was about 15 years old and sagging. She had a handyman install one of those anti sag cables. It worked for about a year. So I bought about $20 of galvanized nuts,bolts and washers and replaced all the screws and nails one at at time. Each fence board had 3 bolts nuts and 6 washers. That gate was so strong you could stand on it. That was 20 years ago. It was still just as strong and sturdy 20 years later and never sagged again. It go another 20 years easily but my mom sold the house and the new owners tore down the whole fence to add a second garage. Nails and screws lost their grip and become lose as wood ages and some decay sets in around the holes nails and screws make. A bolt going all the way through the bracing and fence boards with washers on each side sandwitches everything together. Washers increase the surface area so much that even if the hole gets bigger from rot it will still hold the pieces together. If you ever have to replace the wood just reuse the nuts, bolts and washers.
This is an excellent summary of the RIGHT way (bolts with washers) to make connections in wood. A wood gate with the diagonal in tension can work well if the end connections are bolted.
Wood does swell and contract on endless cycles. No matter what kind of cable or fasteners one uses, it will require maintaining. While some work better than others and some types of wood perform better, There is no forever maintenance free fastener for the life of an outdoor wood structure.
Coach bolt, washer and nut. The washer distributed the pressure from the nut evenly reducing the chance of damage from the corners of the nut potentially creating splits. The longevity of your fix primarily comes to how over engineered it was. I do similar, it's not a criticism. Typically it's preferred to have the structure supporting itself and the fasteners... fastening. Lol. You can be endlessly needing to tighten nuts and bolts when they are supporting the structures they are intended to be fastening.
There must be a lot of people out there bracing gates. Over a million views in 6 days? Thanks, guys, we'll be seeing straight and well-braced gates everywhere now :) You've got to love engineering, you picked up a new subscriber. :)
Nope, I've already watched every other video and UA-cam is scraping the bottom of the barrel for recommendations. Next, I can learn how to throw a punch in a street fight, or how to stop smoke from a fire pit, or how you unlock a spiritual awakening... All stuff that I also have no interest in or use for. But I will watch them all, like and comment too.
WoW! Thank you for simplifying this, my poor gate is hanging by a thread and I have been to overwhelmed to start anything. Now I am inspired. Thanx guys!!!
Here because of the algorithm. I have no intention of needing to fix a gate or anything to do with fences or gates, but these guys are awesome, and I love the video. The algorithm works in mysterious ways.
Thank you soooo much for this info!!! This really breaks down the concept/steps needed, to fix an existing saggy gate without replacing it! So much easier to understand than some of the longer more complex videos!
I’m currently working on a timber framed bridge design project for my school. It’s more of a conceptual drafting project than anything else because we’re not focused on the physics side of things just the hand drafting aspect, but this explains so much about historic wooden bridge designs it’s hilarious to think I had this element explained so well in a recommended video about fence integrity.
@LTVoyager is right: nothing magical about 45 degrees. It’s just that the tension or compression gets more extreme as the diagonal element gets closer to horizontal. Another point: the top horizontal member is in tension either way. Its force is carried by fasteners either way. So while having the diagonal member in compression is better, the other forces need to be considered as well. Great video!
It also depends on the direction of the wood used to build the gate. With horizontal installed ‘planks’, your pressure-solution works great. With vertical installed planks, the pressure solution will slowly push the vertical planks go wider and wider until the gate wont fit anymore
Nothing magical about 45°. Moving the brace from 55° from vertical to 45° adds extra leverage bearing on the brace erasing any advantage. This calculation needs to be done with vectors, not intuition.
It's a magical number in the way computer programmers use the term: It's unexplained, it's not necessary to understand how it's found, but if you change the value things go wrong. PI = 3.1415926 is an example. Here it's more "rule of thumb" than real magical number but OK.
@@SenselessUsername The point being made is that it's a clumsy rule that only sometimes manages to be helpful by accident, and can equally as often do nothing to improve the gate. A much better rule of thumb would be "If your gate is more than twice as wide as it is tall, consider splitting the braces into two sections." That rule would happen to kick in once the angle is around 65 degrees, which is about where you would actually start seeing some slight benefits to the different construction.
Mate mind boggling video, yam here from NZ (an entry level DIYer), I'm looking at installing smart screen to my pergola and a hidden door accessible from outside and it straightaway solved my doubt on the bracing. I still have couple of doubts about the railings (like half lap joint where horizontal panel if outside or Inside, I'm sure I will find solution in your other videos... Thanks for making this one.. Cheers
build a steel gate the opposite to a wood one? thats nonsense, if you makf the steel gate out of steel with the same profile as the wood used, then the steel gate will react to forces applied to it, in exactlly the same manner as the wood one, the only difference being the steel gate will withstand load forces many times higher than the wood one, if you want to see where the loads are appied to a gate, just have a look at a shelf bracket, the direction of loads on a shelf bracket are exactly the same as those acting on a gate, theres a reason why shelf brackets are never fitted upside down…and they are normally made from steel,
@robertmagnusjamieson1759 that would assume you used the same coss section of steel as wood, but typically a steel gate would be made of slimmer sections than a timber one due to steel being harder and denser than wood. Slim sections are more susceptible to buckling than thick sections of equal tensile strength, which is why we use them in tension not compression. You can pull a truck with a wire hawser, but you can't push it.
Well... turns out I built my gate wrong, and the tension cable I used warped it more than it prevented it from sagging. Five years later, I watched your video, flipped the brace, removed the cable, and everything's good now. Thank you!!!
Did you take your gate doors off to do all that? Our fence (installed by a fencing company). Installed our doors incorrectly. 😢 after doing research I have realized this. Our boards running diagonally were put on the wrong way. So I need to take them off, flip them then add a tension brace. I’m very pregnant and would need assistance in taking the doors off. So if it’s necessary I’ll take them off but if it’s not I’d rather leave them on. 😂
I admit I didn't watch the whole video, but for my wooden gates, I installed two diagonal threaded rods with a turn buckle in the middle, and eye hooks at each end, so I can adjust the gate at any time it gets out of alignment at the latch. It works great and won't wear out. Rust protection is required, but since you rarely need to adjust it after it is set up correctly, I just painted the threaded rods and turn buckle to match the wooden gate. You can always touch up the paint if it gets scuffed off during any of your adjustments. For this application, the brace is installed in tension, like the position of the wood brace when he first tried it.
@@jimbosander lots of hardware stores have turn buckle kits that come with a left hand threaded eye hook on one end and a right hand threaded eye hook on the other side, so all I did was replace the right hand threaded eye hook with a standard threaded rod of the same diameter and thread pitch. I then drilled a hole in the gate at the upper corner of the hinge side at the correct angle, and slipped the rod through the hole and put a nut on the end of it. I then attached the turn buckle to the other opposite corner with a J hook screw into the gate, so I could measure where to cut the threaded rod. I think you can figure out the rest.
@@traveling.down.the.road56 ah, you connected the left handed to the frame, makes sense. I'd visualized the tb in the middle of two asymetric rods :) Thanks.
Mostly good info, but your two diagonal design for the long gate has that center post in tension so it relies on the fasteners to connect it to the frame or the braces, but you made it seem like it'd work also without relying on fasteners.
yes and the brace in tension is also trying to break the fasteners holding the outside vertical board in place and the one holding the bottom horizontial board by the hinge the premise of this video is wrong
Maybe the gate was built over a hundred years ago as the ones on my ranch are from the 1810s and rebuilt in the 1890s. I think my ancestors were drinking lots of moonshine when building gates. We have trapezoid and windmill tensioners on our gates. They look weird and random but lasted the test of time.
@@alwil1563 Plausible, but I've always taken the time to explain it clearly. And not for nothing but... just cause you have one, doesn't mean you need to act like one!
I've built gates now for over 25 years knowing the right place to put the brace, and the once all of the fasteners are in place it's solid. As long as the post or whatever the hinges are attached to is solid... I've also adapted the brace laying flat ,so the fence boards have 3 1/2 " of area to fasten to and it's a lot less chance of flexing. I also cut both ends of the brace into a point so it rides both side and top and bottom of gate. Not sure if this is followable but I thought I'd give it a shot. I also have never had any issues with sag when building six by six foot gates ,and just having the one brace corner to corner. Yet! But I'll keep that anti sag cable in mind thanks. Usually just have a wheel on the bottom 😏
I put the bottom of the diagonal on the hinged stile not the rail. That way the stile-rail joint has no added forces. Also, the brace doesn’t need to span the diagonal. On a gate taller than it is wide a 45 degree brace to the hinge leg is sufficient and allows a horizontal rail in the middle as an attachment point to help keep vertical facing flat.
From someone who built chain link & ornamental gates and fences for 25 years and a welder fabricator for almost 50 years, I still learned a great deal from this video. I’m sure I made many mistakes over the years. If I would have seen this video when I was young in the business I’m sure I would’ve made a a lot less mistakes. Thank you 🙏
There is no magic about 45deg. Sure It is a good rule of thumb; the shallower the angle the more weight is on compression and the more it pushes the end out proportionally to the amount it supports then end in the upward angle, but 46 deg is not all of a sudden going to break or last half as long. Same applies to tension cables. If you had a gate 3x the height a tension cable and its mounting will need to be much stronger than for a square. But a 5' wide gate that is 4' high would not really be a problem, either for compression or tension. Other than the critical 45deg, I think the video was excellent and good for someone trying to keep in their dogs.
Thanks for this really clear and instructive video ! I have one doubt : if you tense a wire only on one side of the fence wouldn't it curve the fence to that side ? Should it have one wire on esch side ?
Yes, if you're really going to crank down on it. Our anti-sag kits are meant to prevent sag in an already-constructed gate. If you are only using wire in tension for support, you're correct--you'll need it on both sides.
A tension brace of cable on threaded rod will cause the gate to twist or warp, unless it is dead center in the gate. Can’t be done with a face mounted brace kit.
Probably yes but it depends. A brace pointing downwards towards the wheel will direct more of the load to the wheel. Usually you want that since it means less on the rest of the structure. But then the question is, how much load can the wheel handle?
🚨 0:06 advanced home remodeling craftsman here. I did it like you showed the first time on a custom gate that I made 20 years ago and it still works great although I did have to freshen up the fasteners.
Your example with your arm is incorrect. If that gate on the left were just as long but taller, the brace would work fine. The reason the brace starts to fail at less than 45 degrees is that it approaches parallel to the horizontal members of the gate and starts to lose the advantage of a triangle. As the angel of the brace gets shallower, a given amount of compression of the brace translates into a larger vertical movement of the gate.
Well, your explanation may be understood by some of us, I’m guessing that the visual he showed about which direction to put the piece of wood as far more useful to 90% of the viewers 😂
More of a question for you experts. I have a 13' wide opening that I want to install a sliding wooden gate. Frame for gate will be wood with cedar pickets. Plan on putting 1-5/8" top rail on 4x4 posts with rollers that I assume would be considered the hinge side. How should I install diagonal bracing? Height of gate frame will be 5'-5". Since it is wood should I put a vertical 2x4 every 5' and run brace diagonal from top to bottom (hinge side)?
As somebody who does extensive rigging training, angles are very near and dear to me. It is my favorite portion to teach because people do not understand how angles/degrees can add so much more tension.
I built gates in steel tube and put the braces the other way. Not intentionally but just was not thinking at the time. They look great and don't sag in the least and you'd really have to stop and look and think for quite a time to see the mistake. In timber they'd have sagged to the ground by now. Thank God for steel and for arc welders is all I can say.
The two-brace method on the wider gate puts the center vertical member in tension. The compression of the diagonals tries to bend the rails apart and transmit all their tension into the fasteners connecting the center upright to rails.
Seems like making a V from the boards both pushing against a center would make the most sense. The inside board wouldn't have much tension on it, but would be keeping the center board straight.
@@JLars A second one from top of hinge side to lower center wouldn't help for the same reason as the first example on the shorter gate. As the gate begins to sag, the second brace would just be dragged away from the center board, leaving no support for it or the angled brace. Some other sort of brace to support the center board and/or cables crossing each angled brace for support could work. I've not tried it, so I'm not sure.
I like that you are trying to understand the forces applied. It is a cantilever upon a post into a footing with an unsupported top of post. What you have is called a pin joint around the perimeter or frame. This is a good method to use, it allows freedom of rotation (moment) in the assy. The supports that you show have no pin joint connections. This shows nothing structural, it is simply a gravity prop and means nothing, If you pinned the joints they would appear the same. Try a 6'x 20' swing gate, It will look a bit different in actual forces applied but is the same.
We're basically talking about truss design here. A properly designed truss can be attached with a single connection point at each intersection (which would allow it to rotate) and the triangle prevent any movement. With your example of the anti-sag wire, the gate could still fold up if it was lifted on the free end. On the other hand, if you installed an additional anti-sag kit across the other direction (thus making an "X" design), then all the corners would be in tension and it would not fold up when lifted. Sometimes though, you just need to put a wheel on the gate so that it can roll across the ground instead of only being supported on one end. Maybe you don't want to put that much weight hanging out on the post that you had to use for the gate... Maybe the angle of the terrain is such that you can't position the hinges so that the gate will follow the slope of the ground through its entire opening arch... For example, I have a 10 ft x 3 ft gate in the breezeway between my garage and house that I used this method on... The posts were already in the concrete slab of the driveway / patio and seemed fairly sturdy, but I wasn't sure if it would handle that much of a load on it, plus I wanted the gate to be able to swing over 180 degrees and the slope of the driveway was different than the slope of the patio... No matter where I placed the hinges, the end of the gate would either be dragging or somewhat high in the air depending upon which way I opened the gate... So, I just made some elongated loops from steel rod so that the hinge pins could "float" and installed a wheel on the end of the fence... Putting a cross-brace on the fence (even a wire in tension) was not an option because of the damn HOA Nazis that we have here... They will actually trespass on your property looking for violations that are not visible from the street... I've had to impress upon them that trespassing on someone's property is not particularly survival-oriented behavior (i.e. is not conducive to a long life) here in Texas...
Everything was straightforward until the 45⁰ subject. If your gate is wider than it is tall then the angle of the brace will be less than 45⁰. No problem. It still works.
70 yr old vet common sense vet ( made it this far ) here ! Thanks for stirring the gray matter around ! For all the engineers- I read most of your very informative responses & I have just one question- with what you all dais, does that mean I hold the brace to the left or to the right ?
Recent redo of 2 wooden gates (swinging, 110 inches total width, 55 each) and adjoining 8 foot section on each side, shadow style design. I welded two gate frames made of galvanized 1.5 steel square tubing, hung the gates on 6x6 posts with post master fence post supporting the adjoining sections. Recently withstood 100 + mph wind gusts. The older sections did not fair so well. 😢 Big believer in post master posts and steel gate frames. Enjoyed the video.
Such a great video showing the importance of understanding compression and tension. I wish the people who built the fence on my house had understood these basic fundamentals of structural engineering. Pretty sure they did my very large gate doors totally backwards haha… now to go fix them!
Although I live in Wonderful Wyoming I learned about SWI Fence from Stoney Ridge Farmer. I've watched many of your videos since then and you guys have to be one of the GREATEST fence companies there is. The old saying you get what you pay for is so true. I tried a local fence company and did not get a great product like you guys produce. Less than a year after the fence was installed I had issues and the contractor would not return my calls. Next time I need a fence built I will call SWI Fence first!
Hey! Can you knuckleheads make a video about repairing and rejuvenating a chain link fence that surrounds a typical home? That is another project for me after i use two of your kits to unsag the doors to my woodshop. It is not a "gate" but I assume they will work just fine nevertheless.
70 yr old common sense vet ( made it this long ) here . Thanks for the intel guys. Appreciate the ability to stir some gray matter around. So for all the engineers out there, with what you explained , do I hold the cross board to the left or to the right ?
I knew about the proper direction of a compression brace in a gate, but the knowledge nugget about it having to be less than 45° I did not know. In the near future I will be fencing my backyard and there will be a rugged gate big enough to get the mower into the back yard and this will come in handy. You may mention that there are crazy rugged, wide continuous hinges (aka piano hinges) available that would be perfect for heavy wood gates that will spread the load of the gate over nearly the entire height of the attachment post(s) and alignment is a breeze.
Wow, it's so nice to learn how to solve an issue i didn't know existed...pretty nice video and i love how you showed the issue that you were trying to solve and how to solve it!
I love the presentation and I think your model is cool, but is the model a fair representation of a picket fence gate construction? I may attempt to repair the double-wide swing gate. We paid three different contractors to rebuild the picket fence on the three sides our property over the course of two years [2020 to 2022]. Each contractor's crews had different skill levels; however, it seems that no one can build a gate that is problem-free. I am not a carpenter, I am not a mechanic, I am not a handyman and I am not a video-editor, but I am a beginner DIY Guy. I may attempt to repair the double-wide swing gate - the crew used the Adjust-A-Gate 1-1/2-in Steel-Painted Gate Kit - the crew either threw out the turnbuckle and cable kit along with the instructions [I retrieved the instructions, but never found the turnbuckle and cable]: 3 weeks ago they returned to replace the cedar siding with James Hardy cement-fiber siding. I informed them about the gate problems, so they purchased turnbuckle kits and installed them, but I think one of the kits was installed incorrectly thus the one gate was pulled downward to the ground by the cable and the other gate was pulled upward by the other cable. They stopped by again today to attempt to fix the gate - they failed and threw in the towel. They proposed to replace the double-wide gate with single-entry gate. The single-entry gate has to be wide enough for our lawn tractor. I just wish I could get the double-wide gate repaired correctly.
As someone who built a wood gate... recently. I just cut it into 4 pieces and put them in each corner. Keeping the center free for my farms logo. (Made of wood) Seems to be holding up. Will this work?
I didn't have any questions, but I did just buy a house on a property with a fence all around it and fenced dividing the yard into three sections and there are gates galore and I know I'm going to need to work on those and brace them as they are definitely sagging. I move in next month and the algorithm blessed me with this just now. Awesome, thank you.
Perfect video explaining the right way to brace a wooden gate, taking the stress off the fasteners and joints. This creates compression force longitudinally on the brace; i.e. you would have to compress the brace lengthwise for the gate to sag. Wood is very strong this way.
Fantastic visual way of teaching these concepts! Thanks you guys. I definitely made the mistake of doing it at the correct direction but past 45° 🤦🏼♂️
It seems clear that the single brace on the long gate is more effective than the heavier and more complex version with three braces/boards. The single board not only holds the gate higher in the video, while the triple brace sags dramatically; but it also would likely hold more weight placed atop if easily tested. The additional braces add almost nothing but extra weight and waste. The one brace that is working is now put at a severe mechanical disadvantage due to the length of the gate extending as a lever beyond it. Braces should go corner to corner for maximum strength, as you first instructed, with few justifiable exceptions.
Awesome video so what's the best way to frame were the it does not have worping on the latch side aways worp in or out like gates trying to twist. Fence company on there 3rd gate at my house keeps worping really bad
If its a single door gate less than 4" wide....no braces or vertical frame work is needed. Put large Tee hinges directly on the horizontal members of the gate, the fence boards are the verticals. I leaned this trick from an old timer over 40 years ago, and it still works.
Basically, build your gate according to the load. Much like a house, you want to re-direct the weight to the stable element. In this case, the post. How you transfer load to that point, is more important. So, learn how to build a bridge, and you can build a gate.
Nice demonstration. However in a true fence the horizontal crossbeams will be secured by a vertical post at either side, so the diagonal support beam can actually go either way
I came across this a few months ago. Found out all my gates were upside down and that's why they were sagging. Flipped em and the hardware and now they're working well. Thanks for sharing
I make gates for a living, both solid timber and metal framed and I absolutely endorse this great visual explanation. There's a few comments on which direction to brace when building with steel and quite frankly most steel framed gates I build don't require and angle brace at all. The torsional strength of a welded steel joint is more than adequate in most situations and avoids an ugly angle. One note however is that there is more flex in the gate when no brace is used. With wooden gates the 45degree rule can be overcome if there is multiple rails to fix the brace to and therefore spread the forces across multiple elements while simultaneously bracing the brace.
On the longer gate, adding the vertical brace as shown doesn't do anything except transfer the stress to the fasteners holding the vertical brace. If you look at it at 3:10, any pressure on the end of the gate is just going to kick that brace to the left at the top, and to the right at the bottom, and it's going to fail. Putting the diagonal brace on the right side in the other direction, so the braces make a V would make more sense, because then they would both be in compression. Any pressure on the left end of the gate would transfer down the left brace, to the bottom of the right brace, and back up to the top right end of the gate. That said, it's entirely unnecessary to have multiple braces, EXCEPT if the weight of the gate would be likely to cause a single long diagonal brace to warp over time. Then it makes sense to have 2 shorter, stronger, braces, in a V.
What about using both styles? A beam to take the compression and back it up with a wire taking on tension? By necessity the wire would have to pass through the compression brace (which is, itself, reinforced at that point) or to one side or the other of it (or both) which I imagine would impart wear where the two cross if they're in contact.
This only applies if the wood is captured within the frame. If you just screw a piece onto the face of the frame it won't matter because the screws are holding it either way. If you use a cable, make sure to use a turnbuckle so you can adjust the leveling/height easily.
I am 100% sure using steel fasteners, they are not the weakest link in gate constrcution, I am not sure why you thiink that. Wood also can be used in tension, even though it is better in compression. The bottom line is the wider the gate, the more design required to keep it from sagging. Your tension kit is easy for me to agree with. Seems solild and a fair price - but for starters I would do an initial gate build with wood acting in tension for that brace, mostly becuase the vertical members of the gate are going to get compressed in the wrong direction (radial - side) accross the grain, from you compressive 45 degree peice of doow. a season or 2 of wet and dry cycles, and your comppresive member gate is sagging - because the angle piece has compressed 1/4" into each vertical member.
I'm a handyman, I've built/repaired several fences and gates and you WOULD NOT BELIEVE how many "professional" fence companies get this wrong. Seriously, I bet only half of them are correct. Blows my mind
if i hadn't played weeks of polybridge i would be pretty lost. a demonstration with elastics like rubber bands for tension and something easily bendable like cardboard or plastic for compression could help develop a more intuitive understanding of the basic forces in play.
Its a question as to which hinge is taking the most load, as well as which fasteners. With the first option on the small gate most of the load is on the lower hinge and on the top outer fasteners. With the second option the load is on the top hinge and on the lower outer hardware.
Gentlemen...That was a very impressive & well thought-out presentation! I have seen some crazy "Billy-Bob" fencing in my day & I always have to muse, "where the hell did you learn to build fence?" Physics, geometry, and a wee bit of, (figure it the hell out)...Nicely done!
Good video.What is the correct way if the 2x4's are in a flat square frame and the balusters in the gate are vertical 2x4's what's the best way to give it support?
Sorry to break it to you, but all the support is dependent on the fastener on the bottom left. Doesn't matter which way you do it, it depends on the fastener somewhere.
Okay, okay, okay. I've always said this, and I always make my gates and doors with the cross from the bottom spring side up to the handle top side. But at 0:45, when you say "without a single fastener," you forget that the gate itself is fastened at four points (in each corner), and now you are relying on those fasteners. In tension, you are still relying on fasteners, just in tension from a different angle.
Excellent fellas. I looked at the two gates I built years ago and guess what, 0 for 3. Neither is correct and one is too long anyways and needs a middle brace. However, they are working okay, so there is something to be said for using screws to put in the fence planks which keeps them square (enough). Alas, the perfectionist in me says this goes on my do to list.
I already knew my backyard gate was backwards and has sagged over the years. Really enjoyed this video and the casual banter lol. You guys Canadian!? ❤
Retired structural engineer here. There is nothing magical about 45 degrees and the physics doesn’t change with a bigger angle.
Agree! The material used and how much load it can carry determine the optimal angle .. 45 is arbitrary with out context.
Yup, I've built plenty of long gates and they hold up just fine.
Vertical strength of brace is superior in an angle below 45 degrees. No stress on the fasteners. Because the fasteners are not needed. But over 45 degrees, the arm is distended, the brace wants to rock down, it's up to the fasteners to prevent a single degree of sag. At this point shear strength of wood and fasteners come into play. Stuff starts to move.
@@trehobbs6568As OP said, nothing magical about 45. 10 is better than 25 is better than 45 is better than 60 is better than 85.
Finally a decent answer. 45 will depend on width of gate and if you can fit 45 into this length. They have no idea.
Y'all crammed a ton of jokes AND good information into just a few minutes. Love the quick, no-fluff editing.
Best ad for a 2 screws and a wire I've ever seen.
Joking aside, I really appreciated how well this was presented. All ads should genuinely teach something like this one did.
I'm not sure why there is concern about going greater than 45 degrees, sure it is not 'as strong' but it is more than strong enough, and still the right direction.
Another trick to point out, you can build the frame for a gate, wrap a single wire all the way around it and tighten just that, and then throw your diagonal compression bar in.
FAST, SIMPLE, CHEAP and will last forever.
Isn’t “2 girls and a cup” more entertaining?? 😂
@@Torrquecan’t get them to hold my gate up, they keep dropping the cup
I don't have a gate. Great video. Good personal dynamics, well structured video, no useless info, explanations of why the physics matter, and solutions for different scenarios. 10/10
To be clear. This only applies to wood gates. Steel gates work vastly better under tension. As well as aluminum. I have built 60 or 70 as wide as 26 foot free span.
Interesting. Why is that?
@hrmIwonder Think about a bicycle spoke. The wood method works because wood sucks at holding a fastener under tension for long term. Steel on the other hand does not care. When a fat kid swings on a steel gate. If it's compression bracing the brace needs to be strong enough to hold a compressed load of a fat kid a 20 feet. It takes a 2.5 to 3 inch sch40 pipe minimum. If under tention. A 1 inch pipe or even 1/4x1 flat stock is way more than strong enough to hold thay fat kid at 20 feet. I have built a LOT of steel and aluminum gates.
@tireballastserviceofflorid7771 thanks! That makes sense. You could suspend a 10lbs weight from a wire but it wouldn't support the weight under compression. I hadn't looked at it that way. Thanks again!
@@hrmIwonder Exactly.
And that’s why almost all of our modern bridges are suspension bridges (under tension) vs compression arch bridges. Loved the fat kid example. Works pretty good in my imagination center of the brain.
FYI...and something you and readers may enjoy knowing (Timberwright here...so all wood joinery not "fasteners" or hardware in my work most often) the one that works in "compression" is called and "elbow brace" and the example working in tension is a "knee brace."..."X" bracing is just silly and adds unessary weight. These tradition "all wood joinery" doors, gates and stock gates are often built with green wood which is an added challenge in skill and understanding. Great video demonstration!!!
This is the simplest yet most effective video on gates. Most people need a visual and this was perfect for that
I would add this was an excellent video in general. No obnoxious background music, no (long) boring intro with fireworks, no silly flashing images in background, the humor was subtle and entertaining. I urge all video creators to strive for this. (P.S. I don't even have a gate.)
Except it’s wrong.
@@blacksquirrel4008they got the long gate wrong 😂
@@terry_willis You must be an older person, Nothing wrong with that. But, there is nothing wrong with adding a little, music, flare, and comedy to content in this day and age. I enjoy it as long as it's not a cut every 2 seconds, lol.
@@jonwelch564 Explain how it is wrong? Back up your claim?
This video is incredibly helpful and easy to understand! The way you explained the difference between tension braces and compression braces is very intuitive, especially when demonstrating the importance of keeping the angle under 45° to maximize strength. I truly admire your attention to detail and how you’ve turned physics principles into practical solutions for gate construction!
Thanks for the kind words
@ For a longer gate that requires multiple compression braces and vertical supports, is there a limit on the length or the number of braces to ensure optimal durability without significantly increasing weight or cost? Has you tried other solutions that work even better?
It’s nice to see you explain the right way to build fences!! Not the usual on UA-cam!!
I WORKED for NW fence in Spokane Valley /Idaho fence in Post Falls. Not an easy job NWF was 6days a week 10 hours a day 30 years ago work for the railroad these days…run my train past 5 fences I built that are still standing and makes me appreciate my engineer job more every time I pass them! Keep up the good work!
My mom had gate that was about 15 years old and sagging. She had a handyman install one of those anti sag cables. It worked for about a year. So I bought about $20 of galvanized nuts,bolts and washers and replaced all the screws and nails one at at time. Each fence board had 3 bolts nuts and 6 washers. That gate was so strong you could stand on it. That was 20 years ago. It was still just as strong and sturdy 20 years later and never sagged again. It go another 20 years easily but my mom sold the house and the new owners tore down the whole fence to add a second garage. Nails and screws lost their grip and become lose as wood ages and some decay sets in around the holes nails and screws make. A bolt going all the way through the bracing and fence boards with washers on each side sandwitches everything together. Washers increase the surface area so much that even if the hole gets bigger from rot it will still hold the pieces together. If you ever have to replace the wood just reuse the nuts, bolts and washers.
This is an excellent summary of the RIGHT way (bolts with washers) to make connections in wood. A wood gate with the diagonal in tension can work well if the end connections are bolted.
Wood does swell and contract on endless cycles. No matter what kind of cable or fasteners one uses, it will require maintaining. While some work better than others and some types of wood perform better, There is no forever maintenance free fastener for the life of an outdoor wood structure.
Coach bolt, washer and nut. The washer distributed the pressure from the nut evenly reducing the chance of damage from the corners of the nut potentially creating splits. The longevity of your fix primarily comes to how over engineered it was. I do similar, it's not a criticism. Typically it's preferred to have the structure supporting itself and the fasteners... fastening. Lol. You can be endlessly needing to tighten nuts and bolts when they are supporting the structures they are intended to be fastening.
So many builder simple don't get this. A large percentage of gates we see here are wrong
@@rchurch2769 believe it or not, even steel swells and contracts.
There must be a lot of people out there bracing gates. Over a million views in 6 days? Thanks, guys, we'll be seeing straight and well-braced gates everywhere now :) You've got to love engineering, you picked up a new subscriber. :)
I'm not bracing gates, but I find engeneering interesting as a hobby
Nope, I've already watched every other video and UA-cam is scraping the bottom of the barrel for recommendations. Next, I can learn how to throw a punch in a street fight, or how to stop smoke from a fire pit, or how you unlock a spiritual awakening... All stuff that I also have no interest in or use for. But I will watch them all, like and comment too.
WoW! Thank you for simplifying this, my poor gate is hanging by a thread and I have been to overwhelmed to start anything. Now I am inspired. Thanx guys!!!
You got this!
Here because of the algorithm. I have no intention of needing to fix a gate or anything to do with fences or gates, but these guys are awesome, and I love the video.
The algorithm works in mysterious ways.
Quality content is quality content.
Thank you soooo much for this info!!! This really breaks down the concept/steps needed, to fix an existing saggy gate without replacing it! So much easier to understand than some of the longer more complex videos!
Glad it helped!
So glad I saw this before replacing my gate (that I braced wrong) this spring. Thanks.
This one was made for you
Tension and compression. In the final position as described the wood is under compression and the wire under tension. Thanks for sharing.
I’m currently working on a timber framed bridge design project for my school. It’s more of a conceptual drafting project than anything else because we’re not focused on the physics side of things just the hand drafting aspect, but this explains so much about historic wooden bridge designs it’s hilarious to think I had this element explained so well in a recommended video about fence integrity.
This is called curated content. Your webbrowser is watching you
@LTVoyager is right: nothing magical about 45 degrees. It’s just that the tension or compression gets more extreme as the diagonal element gets closer to horizontal.
Another point: the top horizontal member is in tension either way. Its force is carried by fasteners either way. So while having the diagonal member in compression is better, the other forces need to be considered as well.
Great video!
It also depends on the direction of the wood used to build the gate.
With horizontal installed ‘planks’, your pressure-solution works great.
With vertical installed planks, the pressure solution will slowly push the vertical planks go wider and wider until the gate wont fit anymore
Nothing magical about 45°.
Moving the brace from 55° from vertical to 45° adds extra leverage bearing on the brace erasing any advantage. This calculation needs to be done with vectors, not intuition.
@@stipcrane once you exceed 45° the gate starts to work as a leverage, multiplying load forces.
It's a magical number in the way computer programmers use the term: It's unexplained, it's not necessary to understand how it's found, but if you change the value things go wrong. PI = 3.1415926 is an example. Here it's more "rule of thumb" than real magical number but OK.
@@SenselessUsername The point being made is that it's a clumsy rule that only sometimes manages to be helpful by accident, and can equally as often do nothing to improve the gate. A much better rule of thumb would be "If your gate is more than twice as wide as it is tall, consider splitting the braces into two sections." That rule would happen to kick in once the angle is around 65 degrees, which is about where you would actually start seeing some slight benefits to the different construction.
I had no intention of watching this video, but the thumbnail was interesting to me. I watched the whole way through too. Sooooo KEEP IT UP!
Mate mind boggling video, yam here from NZ (an entry level DIYer), I'm looking at installing smart screen to my pergola and a hidden door accessible from outside and it straightaway solved my doubt on the bracing. I still have couple of doubts about the railings (like half lap joint where horizontal panel if outside or Inside, I'm sure I will find solution in your other videos... Thanks for making this one.. Cheers
Very clear video. Only thing would be to switch your use of “less than” and “greater than” 45 degrees.
Yes they were measuring from the vertices not the horizontal.
Dammm you guys packed a whole bunch of info in a few minutes, love the back and forth conversation. Had to subscribed
On iron gates its best to do the opposite of wood because metal will bend easier than stretch.
I work in steel, and endorse this statement.
Makes sense, similar to what the mentioned about rods/tensioning at the start
thanks for posting this. I made an iron gate in tension a few years ago, and i thought it was a failure.
build a steel gate the opposite to a wood one? thats nonsense, if you makf the steel gate out of steel with the same profile as the wood used, then the steel gate will react to forces applied to it, in exactlly the same manner as the wood one, the only difference being the steel gate will withstand load forces many times higher than the wood one, if you want to see where the loads are appied to a gate, just have a look at a shelf bracket, the direction of loads on a shelf bracket are exactly the same as those acting on a gate, theres a reason why shelf brackets are never fitted upside down…and they are normally made from steel,
@robertmagnusjamieson1759 that would assume you used the same coss section of steel as wood, but typically a steel gate would be made of slimmer sections than a timber one due to steel being harder and denser than wood.
Slim sections are more susceptible to buckling than thick sections of equal tensile strength, which is why we use them in tension not compression.
You can pull a truck with a wire hawser, but you can't push it.
Well... turns out I built my gate wrong, and the tension cable I used warped it more than it prevented it from sagging. Five years later, I watched your video, flipped the brace, removed the cable, and everything's good now. Thank you!!!
Nice!
Did you take your gate doors off to do all that? Our fence (installed by a fencing company). Installed our doors incorrectly. 😢 after doing research I have realized this. Our boards running diagonally were put on the wrong way. So I need to take them off, flip them then add a tension brace. I’m very pregnant and would need assistance in taking the doors off. So if it’s necessary I’ll take them off but if it’s not I’d rather leave them on. 😂
I admit I didn't watch the whole video, but for my wooden gates, I installed two diagonal threaded rods with a turn buckle in the middle, and eye hooks at each end, so I can adjust the gate at any time it gets out of alignment at the latch. It works great and won't wear out. Rust protection is required, but since you rarely need to adjust it after it is set up correctly, I just painted the threaded rods and turn buckle to match the wooden gate. You can always touch up the paint if it gets scuffed off during any of your adjustments. For this application, the brace is installed in tension, like the position of the wood brace when he first tried it.
where did you get a left hand threaded rod?
@@jimbosander lots of hardware stores have turn buckle kits that come with a left hand threaded eye hook on one end and a right hand threaded eye hook on the other side, so all I did was replace the right hand threaded eye hook with a standard threaded rod of the same diameter and thread pitch. I then drilled a hole in the gate at the upper corner of the hinge side at the correct angle, and slipped the rod through the hole and put a nut on the end of it. I then attached the turn buckle to the other opposite corner with a J hook screw into the gate, so I could measure where to cut the threaded rod. I think you can figure out the rest.
@@traveling.down.the.road56 ah, you connected the left handed to the frame, makes sense. I'd visualized the tb in the middle of two asymetric rods :)
Thanks.
Great job explaining the principles in a clear and concise manner, with examples. Really excellent video guys!
Hey thanks! Appreciate those kind words!
Mostly good info, but your two diagonal design for the long gate has that center post in tension so it relies on the fasteners to connect it to the frame or the braces, but you made it seem like it'd work also without relying on fasteners.
yes and the brace in tension is also trying to break the fasteners holding the outside vertical board in place and the one holding the bottom horizontial board by the hinge
the premise of this video is wrong
I built fences and decks for years, and used a gate design that did not sag! I was always amazed at the individuals that didn't get this concept.
Maybe they had a crappy instructor or supervisor that was too busy being amazed at their own brilliance to teach them.
Maybe the gate was built over a hundred years ago as the ones on my ranch are from the 1810s and rebuilt in the 1890s. I think my ancestors were drinking lots of moonshine when building gates. We have trapezoid and windmill tensioners on our gates. They look weird and random but lasted the test of time.
@@alwil1563 Plausible, but I've always taken the time to explain it clearly.
And not for nothing but... just cause you have one, doesn't mean you need to act like one!
I've built gates now for over 25 years knowing the right place to put the brace, and the once all of the fasteners are in place it's solid. As long as the post or whatever the hinges are attached to is solid... I've also adapted the brace laying flat ,so the fence boards have 3 1/2 " of area to fasten to and it's a lot less chance of flexing. I also cut both ends of the brace into a point so it rides both side and top and bottom of gate. Not sure if this is followable but I thought I'd give it a shot. I also have never had any issues with sag when building six by six foot gates ,and just having the one brace corner to corner. Yet! But I'll keep that anti sag cable in mind thanks. Usually just have a wheel on the bottom 😏
I put the bottom of the diagonal on the hinged stile not the rail. That way the stile-rail joint has no added forces. Also, the brace doesn’t need to span the diagonal. On a gate taller than it is wide a 45 degree brace to the hinge leg is sufficient and allows a horizontal rail in the middle as an attachment point to help keep vertical facing flat.
How the hell did I get here? Very interesting though
Yeah, same.
🤣👍🏼
Have you talked about repairing or working on a fence lately? Google is always listening. That's how I got here. Just did a fence build last weekend.
That’s what I’m saying too 😂
From someone who built chain link & ornamental gates and fences for 25 years and a welder fabricator for almost 50 years, I still learned a great deal from this video. I’m sure I made many mistakes over the years. If I would have seen this video when I was young in the business I’m sure I would’ve made a a lot less mistakes. Thank you 🙏
There is no magic about 45deg. Sure It is a good rule of thumb; the shallower the angle the more weight is on compression and the more it pushes the end out proportionally to the amount it supports then end in the upward angle, but 46 deg is not all of a sudden going to break or last half as long. Same applies to tension cables. If you had a gate 3x the height a tension cable and its mounting will need to be much stronger than for a square. But a 5' wide gate that is 4' high would not really be a problem, either for compression or tension.
Other than the critical 45deg, I think the video was excellent and good for someone trying to keep in their dogs.
Thanks for this really clear and instructive video ! I have one doubt : if you tense a wire only on one side of the fence wouldn't it curve the fence to that side ? Should it have one wire on esch side ?
Yes, if you're really going to crank down on it. Our anti-sag kits are meant to prevent sag in an already-constructed gate. If you are only using wire in tension for support, you're correct--you'll need it on both sides.
A tension brace of cable on threaded rod will cause the gate to twist or warp, unless it is dead center in the gate. Can’t be done with a face mounted brace kit.
Gates always sag on time .
Holy cow… this was the most useful 5 minutes I’ve spent in YEARS! Thanks guys!!!
You're welcome!
If my gate is long enough that I put a support wheel on the other side to keep the post up, would you put the second brace facing the wheel?
I like this question.
Probably yes but it depends. A brace pointing downwards towards the wheel will direct more of the load to the wheel. Usually you want that since it means less on the rest of the structure. But then the question is, how much load can the wheel handle?
🚨 0:06 advanced home remodeling craftsman here. I did it like you showed the first time on a custom gate that I made 20 years ago and it still works great although I did have to freshen up the fasteners.
Your example with your arm is incorrect. If that gate on the left were just as long but taller, the brace would work fine. The reason the brace starts to fail at less than 45 degrees is that it approaches parallel to the horizontal members of the gate and starts to lose the advantage of a triangle. As the angel of the brace gets shallower, a given amount of compression of the brace translates into a larger vertical movement of the gate.
nothing worse than shallow angels!
got me!@@kenwittlief255
Well, your explanation may be understood by some of us, I’m guessing that the visual he showed about which direction to put the piece of wood as far more useful to 90% of the viewers 😂
More of a question for you experts. I have a 13' wide opening that I want to install a sliding wooden gate. Frame for gate will be wood with cedar pickets. Plan on putting 1-5/8" top rail on 4x4 posts with rollers that I assume would be considered the hinge side. How should I install diagonal bracing? Height of gate frame will be 5'-5". Since it is wood should I put a vertical 2x4 every 5' and run brace diagonal from top to bottom (hinge side)?
I usually put the wood brace in compression but also add a steel tensioner! Yeah, i wear both belt and suspenders 😂
lol a real Chad
They don't make them like they used to.
As somebody who does extensive rigging training, angles are very near and dear to me. It is my favorite portion to teach because people do not understand how angles/degrees can add so much more tension.
I didn't even know I didn't know this.
Thanks!
@@carlsoholt5265 Me neither & couldn’t have phrased it any better !!!
I built gates in steel tube and put the braces the other way. Not intentionally but just was not thinking at the time. They look great and don't sag in the least and you'd really have to stop and look and think for quite a time to see the mistake. In timber they'd have sagged to the ground by now. Thank God for steel and for arc welders is all I can say.
The two-brace method on the wider gate puts the center vertical member in tension. The compression of the diagonals tries to bend the rails apart and transmit all their tension into the fasteners connecting the center upright to rails.
Seems like making a V from the boards both pushing against a center would make the most sense. The inside board wouldn't have much tension on it, but would be keeping the center board straight.
@@JLarsis there a point in having the center beam in that case, with regard to saghing that is?
@@JLars A second one from top of hinge side to lower center wouldn't help for the same reason as the first example on the shorter gate. As the gate begins to sag, the second brace would just be dragged away from the center board, leaving no support for it or the angled brace. Some other sort of brace to support the center board and/or cables crossing each angled brace for support could work. I've not tried it, so I'm not sure.
Very educational and one of the best demonstrations of gate compression and tension braces.
This is why you give your kids blocks as a toddler and not sit them behind a TV!
Yet here you are watching a video learning like the rest of us…
@x_Heffe_X I believe you missed my point, but it's never a bad thing to see someone elses ideas.
@@mikerainey3847 I didn’t miss your point, I was just giving you a hard time haha.
I fixed my wood fence gate by putting a caster wheel at the end. Been working for over 22 years so far
Poor kid, looking at the back of a tv. 😂
What a great video presentation. Any preference on the kind of wood to use for a gate in South Florida?
Holy cat crap, I've been doing this backwards my whole fuggin life!
You've been making gates you're whole life but bracing the opposite way? I smell Bullshit
I like that you are trying to understand the forces applied. It is a cantilever upon a post into a footing with an unsupported top of post.
What you have is called a pin joint around the perimeter or frame. This is a good method to use, it allows freedom of rotation (moment) in the assy. The supports that you show have no pin joint connections. This shows nothing structural, it is simply a gravity prop and means nothing, If you pinned the joints they would appear the same.
Try a 6'x 20' swing gate, It will look a bit different in actual forces applied but is the same.
My wife says she needs the anti sag kit...
underrated comment 🤣
We're basically talking about truss design here. A properly designed truss can be attached with a single connection point at each intersection (which would allow it to rotate) and the triangle prevent any movement. With your example of the anti-sag wire, the gate could still fold up if it was lifted on the free end. On the other hand, if you installed an additional anti-sag kit across the other direction (thus making an "X" design), then all the corners would be in tension and it would not fold up when lifted.
Sometimes though, you just need to put a wheel on the gate so that it can roll across the ground instead of only being supported on one end. Maybe you don't want to put that much weight hanging out on the post that you had to use for the gate... Maybe the angle of the terrain is such that you can't position the hinges so that the gate will follow the slope of the ground through its entire opening arch... For example, I have a 10 ft x 3 ft gate in the breezeway between my garage and house that I used this method on... The posts were already in the concrete slab of the driveway / patio and seemed fairly sturdy, but I wasn't sure if it would handle that much of a load on it, plus I wanted the gate to be able to swing over 180 degrees and the slope of the driveway was different than the slope of the patio... No matter where I placed the hinges, the end of the gate would either be dragging or somewhat high in the air depending upon which way I opened the gate... So, I just made some elongated loops from steel rod so that the hinge pins could "float" and installed a wheel on the end of the fence... Putting a cross-brace on the fence (even a wire in tension) was not an option because of the damn HOA Nazis that we have here... They will actually trespass on your property looking for violations that are not visible from the street... I've had to impress upon them that trespassing on someone's property is not particularly survival-oriented behavior (i.e. is not conducive to a long life) here in Texas...
Everything was straightforward until the 45⁰ subject. If your gate is wider than it is tall then the angle of the brace will be less than 45⁰. No problem. It still works.
70 yr old vet common sense vet ( made it this far ) here ! Thanks for stirring the gray matter around !
For all the engineers- I read most of your very informative responses & I have just one question- with what you all dais, does that mean I hold the brace to the left or to the right ?
how do people build Bill Gates?
However they do it, please lock him in and keep rest of us safe!
A little bit of vaccine and a lotta bit of Epstein?
Best ask Satan
First you get a whole bunch of horse shit and pile it up 2 stories high and your on your way
With heaps of cash
Recent redo of 2 wooden gates (swinging, 110 inches total width, 55 each) and adjoining 8 foot section on each side, shadow style design. I welded two gate frames made of galvanized 1.5 steel square tubing, hung the gates on 6x6 posts with post master fence post supporting the adjoining sections. Recently withstood 100 + mph wind gusts. The older sections did not fair so well. 😢 Big believer in post master posts and steel gate frames. Enjoyed the video.
Such a great video showing the importance of understanding compression and tension. I wish the people who built the fence on my house had understood these basic fundamentals of structural engineering. Pretty sure they did my very large gate doors totally backwards haha… now to go fix them!
This helpful. Thank you! Does this also work for chain link? I’m guessing yes.
Although I live in Wonderful Wyoming I learned about SWI Fence from Stoney Ridge Farmer. I've watched many of your videos since then and you guys have to be one of the GREATEST fence companies there is. The old saying you get what you pay for is so true. I tried a local fence company and did not get a great product like you guys produce. Less than a year after the fence was installed I had issues and the contractor would not return my calls. Next time I need a fence built I will call SWI Fence first!
Hey! Can you knuckleheads make a video about repairing and rejuvenating a chain link fence that surrounds a typical home? That is another project for me after i use two of your kits to unsag the doors to my woodshop. It is not a "gate" but I assume they will work just fine nevertheless.
70 yr old common sense vet ( made it this long ) here . Thanks for the intel guys. Appreciate the ability to stir some gray matter around.
So for all the engineers out there, with what you explained , do I hold the cross board to the left or to the right ?
I knew about the proper direction of a compression brace in a gate, but the knowledge nugget about it having to be less than 45° I did not know. In the near future I will be fencing my backyard and there will be a rugged gate big enough to get the mower into the back yard and this will come in handy.
You may mention that there are crazy rugged, wide continuous hinges (aka piano hinges) available that would be perfect for heavy wood gates that will spread the load of the gate over nearly the entire height of the attachment post(s) and alignment is a breeze.
Wow, it's so nice to learn how to solve an issue i didn't know existed...pretty nice video and i love how you showed the issue that you were trying to solve and how to solve it!
I love the presentation and I think your model is cool, but is the model a fair representation of a picket fence gate construction? I may attempt to repair the double-wide swing gate. We paid three different contractors to rebuild the picket fence on the three sides our property over the course of two years [2020 to 2022]. Each contractor's crews had different skill levels; however, it seems that no one can build a gate that is problem-free. I am not a carpenter, I am not a mechanic, I am not a handyman and I am not a video-editor, but I am a beginner DIY Guy. I may attempt to repair the double-wide swing gate - the crew used the Adjust-A-Gate 1-1/2-in Steel-Painted Gate Kit - the crew either threw out the turnbuckle and cable kit along with the instructions [I retrieved the instructions, but never found the turnbuckle and cable]: 3 weeks ago they returned to replace the cedar siding with James Hardy cement-fiber siding. I informed them about the gate problems, so they purchased turnbuckle kits and installed them, but I think one of the kits was installed incorrectly thus the one gate was pulled downward to the ground by the cable and the other gate was pulled upward by the other cable. They stopped by again today to attempt to fix the gate - they failed and threw in the towel. They proposed to replace the double-wide gate with single-entry gate. The single-entry gate has to be wide enough for our lawn tractor. I just wish I could get the double-wide gate repaired correctly.
I enjoyed this way more than I should have done. This being said, delivery was excellent!
As someone who built a wood gate... recently. I just cut it into 4 pieces and put them in each corner. Keeping the center free for my farms logo. (Made of wood) Seems to be holding up. Will this work?
And you forgot to mention that the more tension you apply to the cable system the more will twist the gate.
Great point. Not a system for straightening a sagging gate--meant for preventing sag.
I didn't have any questions, but I did just buy a house on a property with a fence all around it and fenced dividing the yard into three sections and there are gates galore and I know I'm going to need to work on those and brace them as they are definitely sagging. I move in next month and the algorithm blessed me with this just now. Awesome, thank you.
Success!! A New gate for me and these tips were essential for an excellent outcome!! Thank you!!
You are most welcome!
Perfect video explaining the right way to brace a wooden gate, taking the stress off the fasteners and joints. This creates compression force longitudinally on the brace; i.e. you would have to compress the brace lengthwise for the gate to sag. Wood is very strong this way.
Fantastic visual way of teaching these concepts!
Thanks you guys.
I definitely made the mistake of doing it at the correct direction but past 45° 🤦🏼♂️
It seems clear that the single brace on the long gate is more effective than the heavier and more complex version with three braces/boards. The single board not only holds the gate higher in the video, while the triple brace sags dramatically; but it also would likely hold more weight placed atop if easily tested.
The additional braces add almost nothing but extra weight and waste. The one brace that is working is now put at a severe mechanical disadvantage due to the length of the gate extending as a lever beyond it.
Braces should go corner to corner for maximum strength, as you first instructed, with few justifiable exceptions.
Awesome video so what's the best way to frame were the it does not have worping on the latch side aways worp in or out like gates trying to twist. Fence company on there 3rd gate at my house keeps worping really bad
If its a single door gate less than 4" wide....no braces or vertical frame work is needed. Put large Tee hinges directly on the horizontal members of the gate, the fence boards are the verticals. I leaned this trick from an old timer over 40 years ago, and it still works.
Basically, build your gate according to the load. Much like a house, you want to re-direct the weight to the stable element. In this case, the post. How you transfer load to that point, is more important. So, learn how to build a bridge, and you can build a gate.
Nice demonstration. However in a true fence the horizontal crossbeams will be secured by a vertical post at either side, so the diagonal support beam can actually go either way
I came across this a few months ago. Found out all my gates were upside down and that's why they were sagging. Flipped em and the hardware and now they're working well. Thanks for sharing
When u put that brace in tension mode, the weight of the gate will tend to bend the top of the post also.
thank you for the arm example, on how its easier to hold weight closer to you. that helped a lot
I make gates for a living, both solid timber and metal framed and I absolutely endorse this great visual explanation. There's a few comments on which direction to brace when building with steel and quite frankly most steel framed gates I build don't require and angle brace at all. The torsional strength of a welded steel joint is more than adequate in most situations and avoids an ugly angle. One note however is that there is more flex in the gate when no brace is used.
With wooden gates the 45degree rule can be overcome if there is multiple rails to fix the brace to and therefore spread the forces across multiple elements while simultaneously bracing the brace.
This is an exceptionally good instruction. Thank you very much. Perfect information as I prepare to build two small gates around my garden.
Glad it was helpful!
On the longer gate, adding the vertical brace as shown doesn't do anything except transfer the stress to the fasteners holding the vertical brace. If you look at it at 3:10, any pressure on the end of the gate is just going to kick that brace to the left at the top, and to the right at the bottom, and it's going to fail. Putting the diagonal brace on the right side in the other direction, so the braces make a V would make more sense, because then they would both be in compression. Any pressure on the left end of the gate would transfer down the left brace, to the bottom of the right brace, and back up to the top right end of the gate. That said, it's entirely unnecessary to have multiple braces, EXCEPT if the weight of the gate would be likely to cause a single long diagonal brace to warp over time. Then it makes sense to have 2 shorter, stronger, braces, in a V.
What about using both styles? A beam to take the compression and back it up with a wire taking on tension? By necessity the wire would have to pass through the compression brace (which is, itself, reinforced at that point) or to one side or the other of it (or both) which I imagine would impart wear where the two cross if they're in contact.
This only applies if the wood is captured within the frame. If you just screw a piece onto the face of the frame it won't matter because the screws are holding it either way. If you use a cable, make sure to use a turnbuckle so you can adjust the leveling/height easily.
I am 100% sure using steel fasteners, they are not the weakest link in gate constrcution, I am not sure why you thiink that. Wood also can be used in tension, even though it is better in compression. The bottom line is the wider the gate, the more design required to keep it from sagging. Your tension kit is easy for me to agree with. Seems solild and a fair price - but for starters I would do an initial gate build with wood acting in tension for that brace, mostly becuase the vertical members of the gate are going to get compressed in the wrong direction (radial - side) accross the grain, from you compressive 45 degree peice of doow. a season or 2 of wet and dry cycles, and your comppresive member gate is sagging - because the angle piece has compressed 1/4" into each vertical member.
I believe the placement of the lower end as shown exerts pressure on the hinge. If placed against the vertical it would redirect the pressure
I'm a handyman, I've built/repaired several fences and gates and you WOULD NOT BELIEVE how many "professional" fence companies get this wrong. Seriously, I bet only half of them are correct. Blows my mind
As some other people commented before ... this was a well presented video. Pleasure to watch. Thank you & subscribed
Awesome, thank you!
Great video and personalities. Model of how more learning channels should be. Thank you both!!
Thanks for watching!
if i hadn't played weeks of polybridge i would be pretty lost. a demonstration with elastics like rubber bands for tension and something easily bendable like cardboard or plastic for compression could help develop a more intuitive understanding of the basic forces in play.
Its a question as to which hinge is taking the most load, as well as which fasteners.
With the first option on the small gate most of the load is on the lower hinge and on the top outer fasteners.
With the second option the load is on the top hinge and on the lower outer hardware.
Gentlemen...That was a very impressive & well thought-out presentation! I have seen some crazy "Billy-Bob" fencing in my day & I always have to muse, "where the hell did you learn to build fence?" Physics, geometry, and a wee bit of, (figure it the hell out)...Nicely done!
I have one of those anti sag kits on 2 of my gates. Still plumb after 6 years. i did drill the top flange and bottom flange and added a screw in each.
Good video.What is the correct way if the 2x4's are in a flat square frame and the balusters in the gate are vertical 2x4's what's the best way to give it support?
Sorry to break it to you, but all the support is dependent on the fastener on the bottom left. Doesn't matter which way you do it, it depends on the fastener somewhere.
aaaaand this just became a part of my physics curriculum. Thanks for the great content!
Welcome!
I thought I couldn't possibly learn more from this, boy I was wrong, thank you
Okay, okay, okay. I've always said this, and I always make my gates and doors with the cross from the bottom spring side up to the handle top side. But at 0:45, when you say "without a single fastener," you forget that the gate itself is fastened at four points (in each corner), and now you are relying on those fasteners. In tension, you are still relying on fasteners, just in tension from a different angle.
Excellent fellas. I looked at the two gates I built years ago and guess what, 0 for 3. Neither is correct and one is too long anyways and needs a middle brace. However, they are working okay, so there is something to be said for using screws to put in the fence planks which keeps them square (enough). Alas, the perfectionist in me says this goes on my do to list.
I already knew my backyard gate was backwards and has sagged over the years. Really enjoyed this video and the casual banter lol. You guys Canadian!? ❤
Wyoming. Not toooo far away.