Touhou Drama
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- Опубліковано 6 сер 2024
- Drama! It's a thing that happens in any terminally online fandom -- Touhou is one of them.
You have likely heard of the "war" of Touhou vs. Undertale years ago, but there is more than meets the eye with the drama incidents of the Touhou community: Yukkuris getting trademarked by a Finebros wannabe, a longstanding website getting a DMCA takedown, even the shippers attacking a wikipedia! It's a wild mess. So join me as I list some strange and wacky very veyr scary incidents from the Touhou community.
MAJOR DISCLAIMER: The wiki drama actually started from something else. The drama started because Nova [a editor for the wiki] called the person who made the edit a "degenerate shipper", which was the thing that started the drama. Alsooooooo he did not say verbatim that "Marisa is Reimu's girlfriend" apparently... Oops.
P.S. I know there are other dramas that should have been featured, but I don't know if it is in good taste to tbh...........
P.P.S. a lot of the art used in this video is from Dairi (thumbnail artist is Moe Harukawa).
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Like my trash? Like, dislike and share my videos around! I Suwawako have a dream, and that dream is to become a big UA-camr!
ua-cam.com/channels/wawako.html
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『Music/Sources I used』
pastebin.com/wyeg4K1G
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『Chapters』
0:00 Intro
0:21 Yukkuri Trademark Incident
3:39 Shippers vs. Touhouwiki
7:01 Moriyashrine.org DMCA
10:59 Arcadia Record
12:11 Lostword Server Incident
14:36 Undertale vs. Touhou
16:15 Controverisal sucky sucky releases
21:43 Fin (also watch the suwa cup pleaseesesesese)
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『Social Medias』 【Feat. Suwawako 】
Twitter (brainfarts central): / suwawako2
MyAnimeList (I am watching goobage here!): myanimelist.net/profile/Suwaw...
NicoNicoDouga (uhhh it exists): www.nicovideo.jp/user/96596791
Official Suwawawako Shrine: / discord
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If you have a problem with my videos or there is a mistake, please DM me on twitter so you can tell me what I did wrong and how I can fix this. [I very likely failed somewhere for my research, for please point it out to me somewhere.] - Ігри
7:00 I'm neutral about piracy, but a quick reminder : TH9 ~ TH18.5, TH17.5, and AoCF are all available on Steam
It really sucks that TH 6 ~ 8, and majority of the fighting games are not on there tho... TH7 ~ 8 _may_ potentially get released (as suggested by 2020 interview) but TH6's release is very unlikely
Personally, I wish PC98 games were sold as digital collection bundles... similarly to Sega Genesis Collection. Y'know, MS guys were able to do it, so why couldn't it be possible on the retail level? (Perhaps even hire MS guys for this?)
That feeling when modders do a better job than developers *cough* minecraft *cough*
(As there is a th5 port on windows, yet ZUN never cared to do anything past 1999 with them)
He's gone on record that he'd prefer Occidental fans to just pirate the games if they can't obtain them through legitimate means.
EDIT: I think he was talking about the PC98 games mostly. And also Touhou 6-8. Basically anything that isn't supported or distributed by Zun and his companies are 'fair game'. Imagine the opposite of Nintendo.
Also, do the steam versions have english translations? Because I've been using the pirated ports because they have english translations.
PS: Occidental is the word for western. Occidental and Oriental. If westerners call Asia the Orient, then they should be prepared to be called the Occident
@@philosophysics8150 Steam version also use THcrap
@@philosophysics8150 THcrap patches are compatible with Steam. (Sorry for the self-promo but) I've posted a tutorial video on it long time ago if you'd like to check it out
@@HyperVanilo what is THcrap?
There are no canon ships, end of story.
The only canon ship is the Palanquin Ship
@@User-gk1yi Exactly, bless byakuren.
@@User-gk1yi nice boat
@@User-gk1yi futo boat is more cooler
Based
is it weird that I became a Touhou fan because of Undertale bad apple
OH SHIT ITS YOU!!!!!!!!!!
Hey you shouldn't feel weird, if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be a 5 year touhou player
I became both a Touhou fan because of both Undertale and Deltarune, as well as a fan of the Mother series and the games that it inspired, like Yume Nikki and Omori. I honestly don't know what people's problem is considering there's so many versions of Bad Apple even in other fandoms like the LoL fandom has their version of it, same with Genshin. Why Undertale? Toby is a Touhou fan himself ever since the beginning, he even made a Touhou OC named Apple Girlington as a joke. Clearly these people are just gatekeepers and children.
Holy, the legend
He has appear
The Touhou vs Undertale era was something I only saw in the background, but it's kinda ironic that the fanbases got so heated, meanwhile, the creators are on good terms, with Toby even being inspired by Zun's music.
true
The drama isn't even because of the game quality, it's about JZBoy's animation
The only touhou vs undertale drama I ever saw and pertiptcpatied in was explaining why chara can't lose to someone as weak as any touhou character and any universe or game or anime or manga series and explain the concept of ominversal erasure game control onmintece time paradox immunity erasure immunity reality and Time destruction literally the concept of being a god with actually power that dealted touhou characters from ecetecance it was weird that they weren't taking into the fact that chara will even dealte characters from the game files
@@hunterculpepper1973 Jesse, what tf are you talking about
@@hunterculpepper1973 That's nonsense and you know it. With that logic, Monica from DDLC is omniverse level because you cannot defeat her in normal ways, you have to manually remove her from the game files to defeat her.
Honestly our community's "drama" is so minor compared to the big UA-cam gossip drama communities.
as someone that is both a Hololive and Touhou fan (and that has been a Touhou fan for 9 years by now): yeah drama on Touhou community are DEFINITELY minor stuff.
all this shit goin down in the community when my biggest 2hu drama was learning that my local library had Forbidin Scrollery in English and original Japanese... (happy day for me)
Holy based
Where is it located.
@@RemiliasHusband Utah 🤣
@@Amber_Scarlet Holy Zun! Your local Library is too based!
Missed opportunity to include Aya being ZUN"s girlfriend. Very iconic controversy back when Aya kept being featured in game releases in succession (even randomly being the cover character for the PoFV CD), made even funnier when his actual wife ended up cosplaying her.
Lol thats such a stupid controversy
ZUN love his tengu as much as his wife
@@gusmansyah3002and for good reason too
I completely missed the Moriya Shrine DMCA incident because I stopped playing Touhou for a while, but I remember the absolute war that was the Undertale vs Touhou controversy. It was pure bloodshed, people arguing about who copied who, who won against who, which one was the better game, which one was the HARDEST game, etc. (It was pure elitism, to be honest)
Thankfully those times have already ended.
R-Right?
Oh man, the Moriya shrine website and it's discord server is an iceberg all on it's own. As a spectator through a lot of it, I can tell you there was some heinous stuff going down in it.
@@David4jet Oh definitely. I'm kind of a regular on the forums and stuff there is okayish, but the Discord... Hoo boy... So many bad people there...
@@sodaodaoda For sure. There was so much stuff, especially with Cirno's tenure as admin of it.
The Undertale thing is especially dumb considering that the creator of it is a HUGE Touhou fan who even spoke to Zun and everything, there's a whole interview.
@@ironmaster6496 Yeah, the argument also doesn't work because they're two completely different game genres. I don't think having very brief, all things considered, bullet hell-esque sections makes the whole game that.
Should've added "Deadman Omae Wa Mou/Tiny Little Adiantum" and "Cancelled Touhou Smash Bros" incidents.
Those were wild too, though the latter might be a little obscure but it directly involved ZUN and western fanbase.
Also there was another Touhou trademark dispute before the Yukkuri one that put ZUN in court and responsible for the creation of TSA legal team and many other decisions that solidify Touhou IP, but it needs a little more digging I suppose.
There's a video on this channel about the latter.
First one was how I got into Touhou, actually! I’m relatively new, but I’ve done a lot of lunatic boss rushes haha
The touhou smash bros thing was downright embarrassing for the western community. That said there is currently a touhou platform fighter being developed called Fractured Transience that looks very promising so we may have some redemption.
i never found out about the touhou vs undertale drama despite being a fan of both, it just seems like the youngest undertale fans vs touhou veterans, so weird that one of the biggest disputing points was which one was harder, definitely the show of the undertale side being mostly children with a lot of internet access.
The argument is mostly dominated by Touhou fanboys because they know 2 franchises while Undertale fanboys only know their own game
As someone who used to be big into Fandom a couple years ago and now just drift I remember it was well known on UA-cam side of touhou at the time.
Well, i hate undertale, but not because that im going to attack other People who likes the game.
As a guy who likes both series, the whole undertale Vs touhou drama is just childish. Both of the fandom are desperately trying to prove who's superior. "Bro your game is so easy11!!1" "Megalovania is better 1!(*?#".
Just stop it.
@@-idk-9698 You mean Undertale fanboys being childish?
The only reason ZUN draws Marisa red eyes is because he draws it by memory
and same goes for marible, he forgot the eye color.
He forgot that Daiyousei has green hair, this happened when he played GarticPhone with beatMARIO and co.
Damn, I remember got hyped because the only time Marisa had red eyes has in th2
So is this also why Sakuya used to have red eyes in EoSD but since Phantasmagoria of flower view her eye colour was changed to blue?
@@shady8868 yes
Feels like he's going the same path than the creator of Dragon Ball, not wanting to have anything to do with Touhou anymore but feeling pushed to by the success he has with it, which is why he gives less and less attention to his games. If he trully forgot Marisa's eye color to the point he thought she had red eyes, it shows he doesn't give much shit about it anymore.
As much as I enjoy shipping , I dont think it should be in the wiki (hell, any fandoms wiki) unless it is actually canonical
17:10 It's goofy that people complain about Ten Desires being "too easy" when you can just play on Hard/Lunatic, hell even Lunatic no miss no bomb etc for the most hardcore. It's specifically Normal mode that was made easier relative to the Normal mode in the other games, while Hard/Lunatic are around just as difficult with someone telling me TD Hard might be one of the most difficult games on Hard compared to other games on Hard. When it comes to music it's also pretty much subjective and I thought TD music was just as good as in the other games. TD hardly did anything wrong at all and it's one of the better Touhou games around, people have zero objective arguments for why the game is supposedly worse or just bad in general. It's silly.
It's legitimately only normal? That's like taking the icicle fall easy-moment as a literal complaint against the entire game it is from.
@@lpfan4491 Going from Normal to Hard in TD is a large difficulty jump indeed. I went from nearly 1CC'ing Normal on the first try blind, to spending days and days practicing and attempting Hard to finally 1CC it.
Personally i see it as the weaker games not for-
Actually you know what? Yeah, at least TD isn't as horribly balanced as LOLK
Crazy how the undertale vs touhou drama shit went over my head despite being being a Touhou fan of 3 years by the time undertale came out.
But yeah I do remember undertale fans were getting bullied by every fandom back then. It’s funny how people act like cringe culture is “dead” just because fnaf isn’t universally shat on 24/7 like how it was back in the day
As a young-ish (1 year in the community) ex-member, i did also miss the drama...
@@hugosimpon3605 I miss fnaf fans getting bodied but I don’t miss cringe culture
I first saw it when I read the comments of the Sakuya V Chara fight a few years after first watching it. I don't feel that has to happen. It was just a little fan fight. Not a canon fight
the drama made me join the touhou fandom and love it (for some reason)
@@RathiSweet2475 i learned that touhou sucks hard for battleboarding when i tried to research spell card rules only to be met with a "draft" that took one minute to read
I think preserving a wiki as unbiased is very important. Even if I like yuri, Touhou canonically indeed features no romance, and all the known sexual relationships are heterosexual. It's just a fact.
and using "homophobia" as an argument was really opening pandora's box for classic internet moronics
Agree with this. The only thing which started this drama for me is that mod's comment. He could've just said "sorry guys, the will needs to be neutral", and not THAT villain speech.
@@senny- Yeah that was just random
I don't think there are any confirmed sexual relationships at all in Touhou either homosexual or heterosexual. The closest thing I can think of is that Sanae is Suwakos descendant so presumably at some point she was in some sort of relationship. And of course Marisas parents, but they're pretty much background characters.
@@HontounoShiramizu There's also Seiga who was married, Junko who was married with child, Toyohime who is married with child, Yorihime (her sister) who is married to her sister's son, Tenshi who's father is an unseen character, Kozusu's grandfather and presumably also her father since Kosuzu is an ordinary human, on that note it's suggested also by the Hieda lineage and Merry's clan but the Hakurei "lineage" is actually a bit debatable, and finally Parsee was married according to her youkai type. Oh and Byakuren had a family. Not married, but she had her brother (meaning she had parents).
About the Moriya piracy incident, I was sad about about the earlier games being potentially lost, I was also happy to see ZUN do it for the later games past Touhou 9 cause he fully deserves to have his games actually paid for on steam.
I know that people say that he has gotten lazy, but I would find it difficult to come up with complete new stuff every game, so I am pretty happy with the new stuff, especially the characters and music.
Also, no matter it's lack of red eyed Marisa, I love 100th Black Market, it's the only game I own on disc at the moment
Well, you always can ask link or files of earlier games in touhou community servers
He has children now too
New Touhou???? The twitter incident 🥶🥶🥶🥶😩😩😩
東方青鳥事故(Touhou Blue bird incident)????
Touhou 19
東方青鴝亂
Touhou 67 ~ Dramatic march in the land of blue robins ~
hollow song of birds
@@dookieiama nice one
The fact that most of these dramas are quite recent really show how nowadays, people just can't appreciate things without having a small group of people wreaking havoc and try to create "wars" or "dramas". I really wished that my favourite video game series would avoid them, but this last half a decade every single one of them got into more controversies than since their creation.
I don't know what's happening with the internet nowadays, with so much hatred from everyone for everything, but I really wish touhou will not loose it's glory amidst all this pointless chaos
I was a veteran of the Touhou-Undertale Wars… I could never forget all of those crushing defeats that me and my fellow fanboys faced on the UA-cam comments front
What a coincidence! me too!
@@zealousmugetsu8777 You two have my respect and may the soul who die in the comment there rest in peace 😢😢😢 °^°
I feel like my frustration with zun is mostly just not getting someone to just make the English patches official to not have to go through the trouble on steam releases
Who isn't frustrated by ZUN's decision? Even the veterans feel the same
I remember going into the Touhou rabbit hole two years ago and having no context to the Touhou/Undertale war so seeing remnants of it made me think "Wow, these fandoms must be so stupid". I never agreed with the Earthbound/Undertale war but at least those two games had enough similarities where I could see a war happen between both communities. Touhou vs Undertale? To me, it was like comparing the first Terminator movie to the PS1 Spider-Man game.
It's just stupid young Undertale fanboys being salty, they're also salty when Asriel won against Marisa but not kill her
@@HyperVanilo I thought the war started because of that bad apple video. Still, both sides were just very biased and it’s a good thing that war had died out. Not a very good look for someone who’s just got interested in Touhou.
@@3dfan008 the war started because they probably felt indebted to their fandom, a bit of mental gymnastics and there you go
@@chadsomemalowsome So basically what the other guy said but with both fandoms? I apologize if I’m wrong.
As someone who a fan of both both my guess is cause Undertales battle gameplay involves pattern dodging which is a big thing in touhou? I don't think it's copying though it's just the same kind of gameplay
The yukkuri incident was absolutely absurd. It was ridiculous because the intention to rob it without any effort was so reckless.
crazy innit
btw you are the best
Here's an easy take on topics like shipping:
It's fiction, imagination, nothing real. You do you.
There is no reason to complicate it beyond that seeing as it only exists in one's imagination. But of course do not push fanon into canon. Those are very separate things.
You forgot one, probably one of the biggest yet.
It was Deadman Prod's "Omae Wa Mou" being the exact same song from Shibayan Record's "Tiny Little Adiantum".
Though, to be fair, the drama did fizzle out after a few months. But it was still a big storm when it came to light.
That was a big thing haha… I was actually pulled into the Touhou community because of that exact incident. You can probably guess which side I took haha
the first story is: Never capitalize what is share equally.
On tumblr, there were minor Touhou drama. One was when kantai collection was getting popular, and some fans were concerned that people were leaving Touhou for that (I honestly dk about this much, I just read it from a post)
One that I clearly remember was “Character”-Suggest/suggestions, the reincarnation of ask/role play blogs. One was a Yukari kin, who was a bit too serious tbh, and a Marisa suggest Blog who was rebloging their posts and adding a comment in Japanese.
Other than that, there wasn’t much drama :)
The whole kantai thing is kind of depressing honestly, it showed that most of the creators were just there for the fad and not because of genuine love
Future video idea
@@ironmaster6496 Well to be fair, Kantai is (or was) facing the exact same situation here with the rising market of gacha games
@@getserious4958 ha cool, i don't wanna be...no you know what fk it I'm gonna be rude haha i'm glad about that and in Kantai's case it was bound to happen since unlike Touhou or Black Rock shooter even which were a passion projects, KC is just shameless a commercialngacha that uses waifus to sell, there's nothing more to it than that
@@ironmaster6496 uh... you know that KC building mechanic makes every single girl farmable right? The game doesn't even fit the classic gacha model, its a browser game that happens to have microtransations but ita NOT a gacha
TLDR: Internet stays the same. For better or for worse.
I got clickbaited by Shion on the thumbnail but then stayed for the content
One might also count Mima's abscence among the controversies. While most of the time it's a meme, it got more negative during Mizuchi's reveal. I honestly don't have that much attachment for her, but having the culprit's reveal be "it was a new character!" twice in a row did feel like a copout.
And lazy, i mean literally all of the signs pointed at Mima, HELL her being that OP would actually makes sense considering Mima's history, it would have make the story at least decent.
But like you said nope, new dumb character that is OP just because
I never understand all these complaints about Mima not returning. I mean how delusional do you have to be to actually think Mima will return in the manga? "But all these signs pointed at Mima", yeah it's more like YOU WANT Mima to return, and ZUN (who never had the idea of bringing back more PC-98 characters when he wrote the story) didn't bring her back. I don't even think all the signs were pointed at Mima. People's expectations were too high and they can't accept the fact, so they blamed ZUN (bad writing, bad character, bad manga, etc.)
There's nothing wrong with it not being Mima, if we are honest the powers might fit but the MO doesn't.
I remember reading it, thinking maybe it's Mim........... then immediately realized it's not something she'd do. Possessing people draining their powers and moving on isn't really her thing. Even if you throw in revenge on Reimu which she more or less got over back in PC98
Every series got its own new character so it made sense for FDS to get one too. She was called "The Jailbreak King", so not only was I was expecting an new character, I was considering it could even be a male character.
Mizuchi is like mima, but less funny and potential. Atleast for me.
@@yogsothoth915 oohhh that makes sense now, ty i guess
also Mima already appeared in 4/5 PC-98 games, the only one where no Mima is LLS, although she's still loved character due to her personality being a funny evil spirit who once guided Marisa in magic.
The piracy thing is like... I think people think it's a bigger problem than it actually is. Pirates who only pirate will never pay, and pirates who buy after trying exist. In essence (and this has been shown in quite a few cases, including Touhou, to hold true) piracy is free advertisement that dramatically increases exposure and fanbase size. You're of course allowed to do whatever you want with your IP, but I think if you take something down it's usually out of misunderstanding of what piracy does.
Piracy is also a Service Issue, if the games were available to purchase at a Easily Accessible Place, people would buy it no problem
@@SapphireKnight675 yes indeed, by the time i started to play touhou the only way to get them was to buy a dowload copy in a japanese website in yen currency like wtf I was a kid but at least i had bought something on steam at that age
Theres also unfortunately people who pirate games because they have no other options like in Brazil where its more of a rich persons pass time dew to it being expensive to import that kind of stuff.
Also, sometimes fans just make the better product like emulation ports and bug fixes, and performance improvements. The unofficial emulation of some Nintendo games and emulators run better than official sources.
I pirated all the games when I got into Touhou. Over a decade later, I moved to Japan and got all the games legally in Akiba.
Overall a pretty nice video. As a recommendation for a part 2 maybe the Touhou cookie* scandal might fit, I guess. Touhou cookie still to this day has major influence over the fandom, despite many people absolutely despising the original artist (who groomed a minor) and just want to see this stuff dead.
I understand that this subject doesn't complete fit the drama, but more the scandal label. Oh well, just do what you want.
Touhou Cookie has a number of scandals, like regarding the original creator and death threat to KNN-aneki.
But yeah, Cookie itself is more like subfandom that kinda feels like it has barely anything to do with Touhou at all (it's more like VAs worships and inmu jokes), though the KNN death threat is closely tied with Reimu as character.
Cookie is such a weird rabbithole on itself, it has been years and I sitll do not understand the whole Cookie thing
Touhou fans when game too easy: MAD
Touhou fans when game too hard: MAD
Touhou fans when: MAD
Touhou fans when everything: MAD
it is impossible to appease everyone when the fandom gets larger
Touhou fans: MAD
Touhou fans trying not to outdo Sonic fans over who can be the angriest:
Touhou fans when game not too easy, but not too hard: MAD
Sometimes I wish Yukari can just teleport all these drama maker into a cage to become Chen and Ran's food lol
strange that Youmu multi votes didn't get here :p
Same
Idk i was too lazy to write that
Because that was confirmed false. And it was also never truly a "drama" I feel like. Never saw people legit fighting over it or anything.
For such a big community, it does seem rather lacking of drama, huh? No bad thing, of course.
100th Black Market was probably the most fun I've had with a Touhou game quite honestly. A lot of the complaint (RNG aside) was really stupid imo. Like yeah, it's _meant_ to be different from the main line games, that is kinda the point. Is it not kind of boring to get the same reskinned game every couple years?
As someone who was around during the Touhou vs Undertale war (Mostly as a lurker and nothing more), I still find it interesting to look back on and think about since it really was just a bunch of 20 something year olds yelling at 14 year olds and vise versa in an argument that boiled down to 'My waifu can totally beat your husbando!!' and 'stop changing the vocals of Bad Apple to vocaloids of your Sans AU voice headcanons!! It's CRINGE!!'
Something I will admit though was that it was kinda fun to watch Sans Fangirls just kinda go at it with terminally online Touhou fans who still thought Sakuya pad jokes were funny. Definitely a product of its time and admittedly brings back some decent memories from when this was peak news to middle school me, who made sure to keep up with any updates that happened while I was eating lunch in the small room that was the cafeteria
I don't know anything about the game series, but I do know a bit about piracy.
Piracy **makes** money, this might sound counter-intuitive, but many people use piracy as a sort of demo, and most, if not all, people pirating games would never buy that game if they had not been able to play a pirated copy as a demo.
You lose no money by letting piracy stay because you never would have made that money regardless.
The whole Undertale vs touhou drama shit is so dumb tbh.
But then again,Undertale's community back in the day are mostly filled with younger audience and will go up against anyone who think others games are better (and they got bulled for it of course) so it's nice that things have calmed down now that the game gotten more mature audience.
It's no wonder other communities like Team Fortress 2's got along perfectly fine with Touhou's.
undertale got the opposite of the quote: "you either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain"
started out as bad, now it's good enough
Believe me, as a guy who used to be a pretty big Undertale fan back in the day, the fandom got into tons of wars with other fandoms to the point where it wasn't funny anymore.
It really looked like Undertale was the one starting shit most of the time. Yeah they got bullied alot, but I rhink it was cause and effect
the clip at 11:42 actually made me spit my drink. no jokes no lies. this made me spit my drink.
I can't wrap my head around this for some reason, but i guess nice job for documenting it thoroughly
21:41 when fans asked ZUN why her eyes were red, he replied "oops"
Holy shit having being active on the Touhou Lost Word Server for a long time when you talked about the drama there I felt at home, as if someone was talking about my homies' mess
Well, those are ton of drama...
Anyway as one of people during THAT Lostword server drama, and one of people who got banned from “Ricefield” incident (which is very absurd)
Basically, the problem is less on strict rule, but the double standard, Mod and Global allowed to use edgy risky joke, but JP was banned without telling when they just saying just a little bit risky. And then the problem with the administrative side that’s encouraging bad advice, deleting the “Pink Cube spending advice”, bad mouth people who questioned their decision in their private chat. And then the JP side mods decided to make personal server for mainly JP Lostword topic, and be more “chaotic” for friend, Mr. A decide to snitch despite being trusted, and from many interactions after that, many of the JP Mods lost mods status.
With that said, it’s all past and we moved on. And what Darkslayer said (blessed be with his edgy name) is rather over saturated. But if you really want better detail, go read Roomba.. I mean Rumia (but we called him Roomba more)’s explanation.
If you don't have sticky keys turned off, you deserve to get screwed over by it
I'm sure he intentionally turned on the sticky key and knows it can be turned off, there's no way he is that stupid
No way you forgot about the become fumo Incident
That sounds interesting, Context?
@@Banana-ry1uo dunno the drama, but "Become fumo" is a roblox game where you can literally become a fumo.
@@Banana-ry1uo Roblox UA-camr "It'sFunneh" uploaded a video about the game, then causing it's massive younger audience to flood the server.
That's it.
@@MedsieLovr .....But isn't it good that younger people get to know Touhou?
@@ironmaster6496 idk, a lot of ppl became Touhou fans because of walfas in 2010, which has the silly humor the average 12 years old would stick with.
The become fumo drama was quite literally Touhou fans trying to maintain their tradition of staying niche, but it's not like those ppl will give the fandom a bad impression, some Touhou memes had become very mainstream, like the Japanese goblin or the among-eyes thing, but who cares anyway most of those people will just enjoy the current thing and move on to the next current thing, if someone on that bunch gets hooked into it then good for them.
However i still totally for gatekeeping, mostly when the so called "newbies" are just a bunch of twittards who use ZUN's creation as tool of their revisionist progressive agenda. like no excuses those people are the worst in literally every community and Touhou is not a exception.
i remember my teacher clicking on a video about photosynthesis and it was like one of those yukkuri vids. like every normal touhou nerd i held up a motivational poster i kept among my notes
As a Touhou fan whose never played a Touhou game I gotta say this was pretty cool recap on Touhou drama. Hope for a part 2 because touhou just has such a huge fan base and history that it’d be cool to see more.
My whole take on the shipping thing is that the person who reverted the edit should have just reverted it without calling the other editor a "degenerate shipper." I get that you can find shipping annoying and it must suck to see people just vandalize wiki pages day after day, but just calm down.
Also, I like how most of the tweets shown were just calling it a nothingburger and people joking around.
Judging from SupremeExplosion's attitude you should've known how stupid Twitter users can be
There used to be a lot more drama about playable characters in the main games.
People got upset that Sajuya wasn't playable until DDC came out, Aya was ZUN's girlfriend for a while and got special treatment, then Sanae was ZUN's girlfriend,. A lot of drama has been lost to time.
Wait WHAT?!
@@fangirl3323 There used to be a lot more community drama about who was a playable character in the main games. It hasn't really been a thing since LoLK, but being a playable character used to be a much bigger deal.
The thing with Aya wand Sanae was similar to the anti-EoSD sentiment that's around today. Aya and Sanae became popular and prominent very fast and some people were vocal about their dislike. The GF thing was a joke about why those characters were in so many official works. Also, ZUN wore Aya's shirt one rime.
@@randommaster06
Oh so it's a joke.
When I read your comment I thought he made characters based on his irl girlfriend and gave her special treatment or something.
@@revolvingworld2676 The people making the joke didn't mind Aya or Sanae . It was just a way o explain why they were showing up in so many games.
There was a contingent of people who were legitimately upset about it, though. There were a lot of Sakuya and Youmu fans who weren't happy with the spotlight shift. It's the same thing that's happening to Sumireko right now.
@@randommaster06 At least for Youmu fans, she got major spotlight to the point she was ended up in number 1 of popularity polls....twice! So they are eating good
Sakuya fans might have their time to shine more, UM is the start
As for Sumireko, i'm curious about it so can you tell it more to me?
Being neutral on Piracy, I think it's important to understand that the western fanbase for the games were mainly exposed to the series though these sorts of sites. Ultimately, ZUN still reserves the rights to his own games and stuff, and I think some of us forget that at times personally. Ultimately the points made during that segment are all similar sentiments I share in terms of the DMCA notice as well.
On another note, I also thought the reason the prices for the games being ~$15 or so was because of steam taking a cut of the profit from the game purchase in particular. I could be wrong about that one though.
Thing is Zun had said that he was ok with that in the past since he never tried or cared to release the games overseas, pricay being literally the only way to get them.
Flashforward to now and the thing got better but it's still slow, if Zun just released all of the games translated on steam there wouldn't have been any drama at all
@@ironmaster6496 and with a better quality control too
@@ironmaster6496 No, ZUN never said he is okay with piracy, he said the piracy became unstoppable he can't do anything about it
ZUN also has guidelines for people to sell Touhou Fan Games and the such that been popping up all over the place, plus, pretty much on the Piracy issue, if you can't buy 'em properly or easily, Piracy happens
@@HyperVanilo he is okay with it as long as its only the games that you otherwise cannot directly get, if the site didnt have the steam games none of this drama would have happened
Isnt this that bad apple game?
The drama i remember recently is the relic and epic friend in lost world. I actually quit because of it. It didn't help that they release it back to back too.
I agree with the over abundance of New rarities. But I just decided to move on and play how I was playing to begin with. Collecting my favorite charaters
Yeah . The fact it has like 60 or 70 characters in one is just overwhelming . Getting a doll is rarer than getting a shiny Pokémon. Plus the banner time sometimes seems too low for me imo or is it just for reruns . But all in all I have too much of a love and hate relationship of this game
@@Bugermanchi sounds like gacha games in general
*I say this but I can only think of FGO as an example
The only reason why Lost Word's rates make sense is that the summon-mechanic is called praying. The joke writes itself. Otherwise they suck.
Suggestion for Part 2 Drama:
- Omae wa Mou vs Shibayan Record
- Undertale Fans vs Touhou Fans
- Rei Links Disrespected and Hated for being justify even Gboiz trash talking him
Edit; - Nakajima
He already covered the Undertale-Touhou War in this video
@lunagunplax8 Oh, about Rei Links, what happened during the drama? It has been like what, a few years now.
ZUN wanting to make TD very accessible was pretty appreciated honestly since it was the game everyone recommended as the first game to try for newcomers, so I'd argue his idea worked very well. Same with DDC. Not sure if I'd still be playing the games if I hadn't had that experience as my first proper one.
In retrospect, I will say that the gimmick had a lot more potential than what was being used and the game having a harsh difficulty spike around stage 4 or something, (Basically like HSiFS) would've benefitted the game a lot for more interesting uses of the Trance mode. But the game certainly is a lot more difficult if you ignore just getting to the end I think, so it still brings in some difficulty I'd say.
Music tho, still rules. Was my fav back then already and it's by far the most unique and has the nicest instruments. I've heard remixes of other themes done in the style of TD specifically, which is something no other game can really do to that level.
I wish ZUN would experiment more like this again.
Lol, who has sticky keys turned on? That's depressing.
The experience on the community drama is wild gotta say. That one Yuuto Ichika incident though
Ah the touhou vs undertale war, as someone who was in it. It was by far the most braindead shit for its time
And it was funny
Very good video really interesting the whole Undertale Touhou thing which I didn't really know was a war. Keep up the good work
im still so sad about the moriya shrine thing - especially knowing that th6, 7, and 8 probably wont get a steam release
You can ask early era touhou games on touhou servers, at least someone can have it on PC. And touhou games arent that big (around 250-500 MB) to download trough shared link
the undertale thing was very strange since i saw what little remained of the drama on some old touhou arranges in the comments, there was an orchestral/rock arrange of border of life utterly overrun with angry undertale 10 year olds, and after a year or so most of their comments just vanished, as if embarassed about what they did.
All I remember about the Undertale vs Touhou drama moments is that some dumb kids claimed that Touhou Plagiarized Undertale... that or they're just some kind of troll, I can't differ them lmao
I also vaguely remember some failed raid attempts by Undertale fan parties to Touhou parties thought
There's another drama about cancelled touhou fan-game based on smash bros.
I "left" the fandom since Ten Desires and haven't really updated with the series yet, save for brief touch with DDC and LoLK, and lo and behold...
i think a majority of the shipping drama could’ve been avoided if the wiki editor said something about romance b/w reimu and marisa being fanon/unconfirmed/whatever instead of trashing the person who originally made the edit for being a shipper tbh-
Sorry but it's necessary for being a dick to them, this is not the first time they vandalized the wiki
@@HyperVanilo It really is not necessary at all. Please learn how to interact with people normally.
The only drama I remember seeing in real time was back when ULiL first came out and was getting translated, and people were fighting over if it was okay to ship mokou and sumireko
And then it happened again in 2020 about Satori X Yuyuko even though there's nothing actually suggesting Satori is a 10-year old besides gross fanon (her name could be anagramed as "5th-grade loli" in Japanese, that's where Satori being commonly portrayed as prepubescent comes from). Personally I've always seen her more as a mature mother figure to Orin and Utsuho.
the other elephant in the room was not addressed
omae wa mou vs tiny little adantium
if it was drama... cuz the amount of lost angry comments on alice margatroids sub-10 mil vid of the song is said to be a lot.
i didn't even know about undertale and touhou drama lmao, people are weird
moriya shrine dmca was a big ouch
I got introduced to Touhou through the Asriel vs Marisa video and I don't regret at all that I got interested in who is Marisa kirisame, that's how I got introduced to Touhou Project
While I didn't see a full-scale war between Touhou and Undertale, maybe it's for the best, since I joined the Undertale community in the summer of 2019 when the controversy had mostly died down, and I got to know Touhou fully in late 2022
although some of the controversy between Undertale and Touhou continues and now usually under videos comparing Undertale and Touhou characters, although they are not massive
There's two ancient dramas that I remember that happened on shrinemaiden. The first is the one where a fan tried to make a super smash bros touhou game and the community was actually pretty hyped about at first until they suddenly weren't. The drama even caused backlash in the jp community who were worried about the developers intentions. Things spiralled out to the point where zun had to comment on it which caused the shrinemaiden forum mods to ban the dev. The next ancient drama was where a disgruntled touhou wiki mod tried to split the community by making their own wikia(ad infested wiki alternative) thankfully it didn't split the community but at the time it was a real threat. If you want a more accurate account you can check shrinemaiden for the forum posts regarding these incidents
"The first is the one where a fan tried to make a super smash bros touhou game"
I need more info.
@@espurrseyes42 search for Fantasy Crescendo on shrinemaiden. The project had a dedicated artists for 3d work and illustration and even had playable demo unfortunately when the forum realized that the project wasn't just a pipe dream they initiated gatekeeper protocols. I wish I was kidding about this but the TLDR of it is that the developers suffered from not being Japanese and not living in Japan. It's sad since if they made that project today no one would bat an eye but back then fans had a really strict reading of zuns guidelines and it wasn't until he clarified/changed them for the hounds to back down
Sobre el drama del ReiMari....
El tonto grita, el inteligente opina, y el sabio se shippea a el mismo con las Tohas 🗿
Baszedi
pero son niñas pequeñas bro, lo siento pero te vas a la cárcel, adiós.
Basado.
Based.
Gigachad opinion.
Nah eso es de virgen XD el Gigachad no se autoinserta
@@ironmaster6496 si es de gigachad. El virgen y cuck prefiere ver a sus waifus con otras mujeres.
I love tohou in the sense that I've never played a tohou game in my life, and I've listened to all the music in every genre available.
I remember the touhou vs Undertale drama. Legit remember seeing some sans fan girl “killing" a touhou character in the name of sans in a video.
epic rap battles of HISTORY ! !
sans fan girl
vs
terminally online touhou fan
(no hate to both fandoms, im just taking the bad apples _(pun intended)_ of both fandoms)
Honestly, as a TH Veteran (been a fan since 2011 who ran a music channel which I kinda restarted) I've seen my fair share of the dramas in the fandom but honestly, the Undertale vs. TH one was pretty tame compared to TH vs Kantai Collection.
Holy cow.
About the whole shipping thingy...
If shipping cute girls is degenerate, so be it.
There is nothing degenerate about shipping, it is one until you do the same thing like those Twitter users
all the drama that happened this year
For Ten Desires music, they get much better once you combine the Original and Trance version.
A bit unrelated but some of the comments in here make me feel so old lmao, most of the time I see people say they joined a couple of years ago, I joined back when UFO was the newest game.
Good to see the series still grows after so many years
Ya forgot the become fumo gatekeeping incident that happened on August 27th 2021
That drama was honestly so pathetic. That's like trying to gatekeep the Mario Party 5 plushies because SuperMarioLogan used them
Didn't know shipping the characters is a 'requirement' so much so that causes drama.
I basically been a Touhou fan since 2019. First time I was introduced to Touhou was in 2010 when I was playing MUGEN. I never seen everything or been through what everyone has, and I'm not totally in the loop on what happens in the community either so, And it does explain what seems to me like a rather petty person causing ZUN to give a DMCA strike to the Moriya Shrine. And many of those games that the community didn't like are games I actually ended up liking. I'll be honest I suck at Touhou games, but got a little better thanks to the helpful advice of..... Just don't move so much, and remember to use bombs sometimes without relying too much on them. I suck so bad that I never get far in any of the games, nor did I get far in the so called "easiest" Touhou game lol. But yeah, I'm sad that Touhou is no exception to having a fandom with some problematic people in the community since everyone who I met who's into Touhou (not many) seemed cool.
And since Touhou still isn't too popular here in the west it scares me a little bit about what would happen if the series did get proper localization in the west with having console releases of the OFFICIAL non fan game Touhou games, or if a Touhou character actually got in Smash Bros and became popular through that. Especially with Twitter being the way it is.
today i discovered the sole benefit of living under a rock
I'm an active editor of Touhouwiki, and that wasn't even the first time that this user (NoobyKai) inserted that exact edit into that exact article. He did it earlier in October 2021 (which I reverted) but nobody seemed to care about that back then. But then again my revert message was me telling him to come up with a citation for that, and not as inflammatory as what the other user did.
In fact, I just checked the contributions page of that user (NoobyKai). Repeatedly re-inserting that statement into Reimu and Marisa's page is their sole "contribution" to the wiki.
As for regulations? No, nothing happened. In fact, all that happened is that NoobyKai received a two week editing ban for starting an edit war.
Also, funny that you mention a "wiki just for shipping" as a joke there, because the actual wiki LITERALLY has an entire article dedicated to documenting popular cases of shipping. The fanon articles exist as a separate entity from the main articles as a reason.
en(dot)touhouwiki(dot)net/wiki/Relationshipping
It’s alright my dude, you have my support. People say people like you shouldn’t exist and they’re wrong. There’s room for everyone on this earth. Just know you’re not in it alone.
@@marcar9marcar972 Uh..... thanks..?
If that is true, touhou twitter did a good job at making the wiki editors look like homophobes... (I literally did not know that Kai was a repeat offender.)
Hopefully you all did not get harrassed because of the situation
@@Suwawako I'm actually not even on their Discord server because I kind of dislike some of the people there lmao.
@@Suwawako its twitter, ever since the tumblr exodus, the site has become like that and its extremely easy to dirt someone's reputation there with baseless accusations of racism or homophobia because eveyone will eat it without even bothering to check for sources or citations of any kind
With the Ship incident, I believe there are canon Ships but not "Relation" ships. There are "Friend" ships. Such as Junko/Hecatia and Doremy/Sagume.
Doremy went out of her way to not do what Sagume asked and sorta betrayed her entirely in LoLK. Sagume probably wants her dead.
@@jellyfly2630 I'm not sure what you mean. Could you please tell me what you are referring to?
@@RathiSweet2475 In LoLK, Sagume asked Doremy to recreate the Lunar Capital in the Dream World and redirect everyone who was entering the Lunar Capital to be sent to the one in the Dream World. When the heroines of the game encounter Doremy, she completely ignores Sagume's request and allows them to enter the real Lunar Capital. Despite the fact that this helped solve the problem at the end, Doremy's intentions of allowing them into the real Lunar Capital was just because she didn't care about Sagume and didn't feel like helping her. Sagume asked her to help the Lunar Capital that was under attack by redirecting outsiders, and Doremy didn't care enough to do that. Sagume is likely pissed.
The main two protagonist of the franchise are super close friends, pretty sure its undeniable to say those types of relationships exist in the franchise
@@jellyfly2630 Ah right. Yeah I can see why sagume would be pissed but I feel she would just let this one slide as it led to a resolution with minimal damage.
Bro the the Shipper Vs Wiki Drama is one of the stupidest thing I've ever seen, Why did the Wiki team even respond to them?
Maybe because the shippers are being idiot? Even if the editors didn't respond to them the shippers will still complain about it on twitter
Idk, lmao. I guess they just really really hate shipping. For me, I don't give a crap about shipping. You do you, but the reply was a bit weird and uneccecary.
Does anyone remember Doujin Style from back in the mid 2000s? That seemed to be the main source for all things Touhou back then. The forums there were crazy too, specifically in the Mental Shift. The old forums look like they're gone though.
The Lostword Drama was so long ago... that's nostalgic, man.
*sniff* no puedo creer que Touhou Project haya hecho eso, el Touhou Project que yo conozco jamás haría eso
Ngl for the shipper incident it would have been fine if it weren’t for the wiki mod comment. Cause like yeah it’s not canon that Marisa and Reimu, but the comment was too much. Just a simple “not confirmed canon” would have been fine.
That's SupremeExplosion for you, he also likes this on Discord server, but for us it's his charm
It was not a mod, just a random user
(Btw there is no such thing as "wiki mod" in the first place)
@@Archimedes.5000 oh Oki, sorry misheard that.
yeah, exactly; just go "this isn't confirmed canon, please remove this or move it to the fandom page" and move the fuck on; what the hell is this "degenerates" nonsense
it's not charming behavior, it makes you look like a piece of shit; I'd bet that this behavior is what spawned the homophobia accusations
another... though not so dramatic event were the takedowns of major touhou arrangements
the largest channels i can think of are adauchi s (from researching via internet archives) and alice margatroid (which i did see their takedown)
Each time the war is put up in conversation, I just think of the legendary sans the peanut
The Deadman Omae Wa Mou incident hurt my soul :(
I saw Sans. "Ohhhh that drama lmao? "
Well that's the reason i know about touhou so i am kinda glad that happend.
A "drama" that happened against the touhou Fandom similarly to the touhou vs undertale drama that wasn't mentioned but was a pretty small underground thing i bet was touhou vs funky friday generally referencing kobito of the shining needle or at least the song cause at the time it was considered a hard song in the game funky friday on roblox which lead to people finding the song and commenting like the song was from funky friday which pissed the touhou fans off and instigated gatekeeping or something.
Moral of the story: If twitter didnt exist things would be a little bit better.
4:02 "boyfriends and girlfriends"
Ah yes, so many men being shipped in these pairings
"Rinnosukefriends and girlfriends"
I remember the shipper incident, I do ship mariali but I wouldn't edit it unless ZUN said so, also, I remember the moriyashrine incident, I do own some touhou games on steam, also I wish touhou games were on sales like all other games but £11 pounds isn't too much. edit [I now ship marialipatchy]
Well this one community does love to put someone like ZUN so high on a deified pedestal that expectations would be justifiably high at all time, so when anything comes out from said "God" whether it can be argued bad or good I think disappointment is a warranted outcome most of the time. Cause oh my god, a human being can't make 18 series of games that is universally great throughout with a spotless magnificent track record? He's a human being ffs, not an AI so tampering expectations may help in judging "sucky sucky" release.
you forgot the Touhou Smash Bros clone that got shut down by zun because of crowdfunding.
on the touhou wiki drama i feel the person removing the edit could've just went "non canon info, please keep to the fanon section" instead of just calling someone a degenerate. it's not good to run a community wiki on calling people names for edits you dont agree with, there's a reason wikipedia editors wish to assume good faith as much as posible when making edits
Someone doesn't realize that the ones who cause the drama are Twitter users, this is not the first time they do this
You should cover the NYN drama i dont even understand it
Ah that cookie star incident
Something that involves sexual harassment of the voice actresses by the director, afaik
@@elephantt2077 Holy f-cking sh1t.
What happen to NYN and cookie btw?
Oh that