Mesa Boogie 5 band EQ vs onboard GEQ comparo Mark IIC++ ESP Hanneman G12T-75
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2024
- Here's today's comparo- the onboard GEQ in an old Mark amp vs. the Mesa 5 band EQ pedal in the loop. I worked to get them sounding as close as I could in the room so that I could A/B between them & see how it sounded. Recorded they don't sound exactly the same and it could be further tweaked to get them tighter as recorded. The question is, is it close enough considering a C+ with GEQ sells for a LOT more than one without?
I would say that the pedal is a little brighter & the onboard is a little more full, all else equal, but we're really splitting hairs.. Please excuse the mistakes & focus on the tone!
Playing starts at 1:49
Also, if you're looking for a guy to make you a real nice custom headshell for your Mark amp talk to Scott metalone72@gmail.com. He's done a few for me including this one, great fit & finish.
The most significant difference between the built-in GEQ and an outboard GEQ going through the loop is that the built in EQ comes at the end of the signal chain directly before the power amp section. With the effects loop it goes through an effects return stage>master volume>power amp which significantly compresses the dynamic range of the EQ, particularly the low end frequencies. The voltage headroom issue is also quite significant as you mentioned, the built-in GEQ operates at -60v while effects pedals operate off a +9v battery, there is just no comparison. Also, the built-in Mesa GEQ is inductor based while the pedal is an opamp based design just like any run of the mill EQ like the Boss GE-7. Inductor based EQs are normally found today in the highest end studio EQs available, it's pretty amazing Mesa Boogie is still using using them when many of these stand-alone EQ units cost as much or even more than an entire Mesa Boogie amp.
yea also the Pull Deep is after the loop return. It would be interesting to insert some I/O points after the Master Vol and to the inverter input and run an external GEQ. You still have the lower headroom issue but figure it would get closer.
The on-board eq sounds better. The pedals sounds scooped as well but lacks something that the on-board eq has.
Probably the level that it effects the amp
You are right!!!
Thanks for the vid. Onboard kills the outbord. The real AJFA tone.
Thanks. I have a mark iii no GEQ this is a perfect addition.
Onboard eq sounds more scooped, love that amp though!!!
A fine choice of riffage
I have 2 sixty-watt IIc+s, one with GEQ and one without it. I got the one without GEQ first. To be honest, I didn’t like the tone until I got the Five Band pedal. No matter how I set it, the tone was hollow and small, like a transistor radio. I got the EQ pedal, and it obviously sounded a LOT better. When I got the amp with GEQ, I was shocked at the volume difference. It turns out I was running both the Input and Output Levels too low. I run both levels on the pedal at around 75-80% now, and it sounds REALLY close to the onboard GEQ.
It's possible your amp needs serviced. I've had two no-EQ C+s and they both ripped. Both have samples on my channel. They only "need" the EQ in the loop if you want to sound like you-know-who.
@@TIGHTENmetal It's okay, you can say Voldemort now. Harry got him!
Beautiful amp
Thanks for doing this!
The onboard GEQ still adds that special flavour imo
Michael J I agree that the onboard is better, but we’re splitting hairs. Both will get you much metal.
Truth
@@TIGHTENmetal remember, the pedal is in the loop, which already affects the sound. Also, some loops and pedals don't exactly play well together sometimes, creating tone suck. I don't know the technical reason, but perhaps it has something to do with impedance?
@@XChristianNoirX I think it has more to do with component and voltage differences. Once again, we're splitting hairs here.
The lowest slider is dialed up a lot more in the onboard EQ.
Of course the pedal is going to sound thinner in this demo.
The loop is probably going to affect the sound too, due to a buffer. You could probably ripp an eq out of another iic+, out it in a box, and give it the same power supply, and it would sound different in the loop.
I can take two different IIC+ and they sound different...
OMG … the EQ pedal actually sounds so much nicer than the onboard EQ … smoother, less muffled and more transparent
On board definitely.
I recon with a little more tweeking, the pedal could sound closer to amp eq. I actually liked the more present mids in the pedal
Hey! I think the eq pedal sounds different because the pedals on the loop "sees" one more gain stage while (if I'm correct) the on board eq doesn't get affected by that gain stage. With your iic+ you could use same settings on both eq's but on the pedal use the gain (or volume, try both, but only one at a time) knob and start lowering the knob until you "feel" those 2 eq's are the same. Try that and post your results :)
They can't be made to feel the same, sorry. 1984 components vs. 2017 components....
@@TIGHTENmetal Why not? I'm pretty sure they put a lot of effort into getting it right, do a test a again and compare them :) I think you are the only guy on UA-cam who has that pedal and a iic+ hahaha
It sounds like the on board eq 80hz slider is clearly set higher than the 80hz slider on the pedal EQ.
Amp eq sounds better less fizzy
Nice comparison. I've been looking at one of these to try to get the same tone of my Boogie for other devices like modeling pedals. That would seem to be the missing component to get the modeling pedal/board closer to the Boogie tone.
pedal sounds way better...i want one
I like the sound of the onboard eq better. Both sounds a bit flubby
Both sounded like dogsht.
Only onboard EQ worth somehting !
I have a mark 4 and a John petrusie mark 2 c +.
I would say the pedal can’t go as the amp but that’s not such a bad thing
Subtle, but I hear the difference(s). Very very close though! ( is the 'noise level' the same ? ) Craig 7/18/22
The pedal was definitely noisier.
the bass slide is not the same so the pedal sound with less bass ..
JP and James het, aways run the vol 1 at 8-9 and l´lead drive at 3-5, try it and thank me later
Emil Tvede I try it all the time. In some situations when I flip flop those the dimensionality improves, and also it allows me to have two useful channels on the footswitch.
to the point, excellent comparison and yes that is pretty much the tone you'll get. I'm an original owner of an HR MkIIC, had it updated to a "+" by Mesa a few years back, which was a major & positive change for the lead chan. But it really came alive with the Mesa 5B EQ in the fx loop. I'm not one to chase a specific metal tone, but have played with numerous settings and find that if one is patient you can dial in a tone you'll be happy with.
fast13b I'd be curious with the knob settings you used?
Thanks. You can see the knob settings in the video!
yes, the settings are visible, but hard to tell on the pulls... is the lead master pulled out? thanks
In this vid Bass & Lead Drive are pulled.
thanks!
sounds closer to the justice.
You have any 2c++ for sale or trade ? I got a mint Diezel Vh4 and cash to go for one
I have a C+ I might entertain that. Email. Sister_sandoz@yahoo.com
Man, you can tell why the no EQ ones aren't as sought after. It sounds terrible when you disengage both EQ's.
Hugo Welti I agree that you need the GEQ engaged for hard rock and metal, but for other kinds of playing it can sound amazing without the EQ in the chain. Depends on what you’re doing.
Yeah, well, I guess "terrible" was a bit of an exaggeration, but it definitely doesn't sound anything like I'd expect a Mark series amp to sound. Then again, maybe it's just me, but I expect a Mark series amp to sound like Metallica. I guess if I were more of a Santana fan or something, I'd appreciate the mid-focused no-EQ tone more. Each to his own.
Hugo Welti Mark series amps are extremely mid heavy. Even with a full scooped GEQ it’s still more mid heavy in the mix than my Rectifiers.
is that what i heard? iic++ and not iic+? could you describe the differences please.. pm if you wish
Yep. Here's a simple way to think about it. IIC+ is Santana. IIC++ is Metallica.
i thought santana was Mark I :P
nickcaptain13 technically yes, but spiritually you get the idea. Just trying to paint a picture.
i got a triaxis and just asked mesa if they can update the iic+ to ++ but i guess they will say they cant or that the mod doesnt exist.. love the double plus thing
weeeell.. i have to disagree... the iic+ was.. modded to ++ on MOP and after... the crunch berries amp you see live or the crunchberries triaxis we used to see live later on.. up until he got the iic++ on axe fx and gave it to all of us..
Different settings of 80 Hz
Did you sold this amp already?
Yes, a few years ago.
This amp doesn't need any pedal, nor boost. It is perfect! Just use the onboard GEQ.
Sounds different. Ur settings r not 1.1
If they were 1:1 it would sound even more different. They are simply not the same tone in quality or range.
@TIGHTENmetal just wanted that pedal but now changed my mind. Thx
@@AndreySedov I'd recommend a good PEQ pedal over this GEQ pedal any day.
You have too much mid in there.