I don't think so.. Its more like think before you act. What you said is more like making up another simple rule that you want to follow because it is straight forward.
I disagree. It is the little things that make the day go smoothly. Screw up or slack off on the little things and it not only causes unnecessary problems, it also breeds laziness.
Matthew Osborn it’s more of an indication than the little thing itself is the problem. If you cut corners on this little thing what is going to be your discipline/attitude towards other more important things?
I believe its partially right. Little things matter a little while they're being taken care of. But there are millions of little things and they matter just as much as the big things in the long term. Like if you decide not to get those few reps in one day.. then the next you say, oh it's not that big of a deal. I can probably miss them today too. After a while you'll see your self plateauing cause you're not pushing hard anymore.
Yeah but any fryer worth it's salt is going to be able to go several hours/shifts if not days in a lower volume environment without being cleaned. And when you do have to clean it, the kitchen comes to a standstill. Not only do you have a fryer out of commission, but you have to dedicate a cook to cleaning it for 20-60 minutes depending on the situation.
Luke Oberrieder Negative, at the McDonalds I was station at we cleaned the fryers twice a day. Also, we had multiple fryers and multiple burger assemblers holding the line. The kitchen never came to a “standstill”. I don’t know where you severed (Wendy’s - I’m guessing) but at our McDonalds we held the line at all times. We couldn’t risk being overrun.
If there's one thing I learned from the military it's that cleaning things that never get used is the single most important aspect of combat. If you can't keep that fryer clean then how are you going to execute the OIF/OEF Theater Wide Brass and Ammo Call?
After being a full-time employee for almost 40 years, if my company told me "unmitigated daily discipline in all things" was our new company policy, I'd be out of there in five minutes.
As someone who leads engineering teams, the development and engagement of my people comes first. I believe if you’re in a leadership position your first goal should be to remove obstacles that block your people. Next to that is to provide vision, guidance and training.
Great message here. My unit was hit by an ied in marjah during an op, 9 years ago today. 4-23-11. It split the matv into two pieces not including the turret. Called in a 9-line and got them out of there.we pushed on as the mission wasn’t completed, all while receiving positive sitreps on their condition. Later that day as we regrouped for a sitrep on our brothers, literally just crossed back in the wire and gunny was on us about wearing our covers and having our frog tops zipped up and tucked in. Only to tell us that they lied to us earlier and two of our brothers died en route. Surprisingly the 1stsgt set him straight. But damn, what a terrible time to chew someone out about a zipper and a cover. “Till Valhalla Sean and Dominic.”
These things you are speaking of, the balance and dichotomy of leadership, these things can not be taught from reading a book. It’s not a simple mental thing, it is understanding the nature of humanity and in turn knowing yourself and what motivates us to follow a person in willful submission.
I like these little clips from the Q+A sessions. It's easy for things to get lost listening to 25 questions and answers in one video but singling out individual questions like this makes them easier to remember and therefore more impactful.
Same personality seen in We Were Soldiers Once: upon seeing an LT hooah-hooahing (Let's go! Let's go!) his platoon during training, the sgt maj remarks to the company CO that the LT is a danger, a guy looking to win medals. And the LT does win one...posthumously.
Sobel...was extreme But he United his troops in their loathing for him And many say he made Easy company The thing is - maybe Dick Winters couldn’t have trained Easy into the fine unit they became Perhaps the point is that different leadership styles are required at different times for different scenarios And the very hard thing is one persons shifting between multiple styles That’s why few Founders become public company CEOs. Founders are directive and lead with a military urgency cos cash is burning at startup and there is a race against time to find product- market fit and get cash in But public company CEOs are typically more collaborative. Only about 25 percent of Founders make it to CEO So, isn’t the art being able to adapt leadership style? Knowing what style applies and when. Can you talk about that Jocko?
Incorrect. Sobel was a total failure as a leader and as a teacher. He was also a failure as a human being. He was a wife beater and abusive father. Easy Company did what they did in spite of him,not because of him
I'm a CO this is too true, you need balance so that when you tell inmates to do things that matter they know that it isn't you messing with them, they will take it seriously simply because YOU said it. Great leadership advice this episode.
Anytime a video of Jocko's podcast even shows up on my UA-cam front-page, I just get to work already, also the bass on Jocko's voice is so great, it reminds me of Lo-Fi hip hop, which helps me concentrate while I work with the video on the background
So, regarding the kite analogy: the kite is your team, left and right handles are the dichotomy of leadership, and the string is the discipline; the shorter it is, the more control. The idea is to release as much string because you want to see your kite fly high. But if you don’t know how to orient the kite, it won’t fly and instead it will crash. I got you Echo! I had kite day every year from the ages 5-11 when i was a young’un.
This hits home, I'm a cook at Del Taco and I do the closing shift and enjoy cleaning the fryer every night. I'm also in community college getting ready to transfer.
Imagine him at a child's B-Day party. He's got a cute tiger painted on his face with a pink party hat 😂 Actually, I can see him doing that Jocko on the other hand would be amazing to see in that situation
I'm interested on reading "The Dichotomy of Leadership"; that extract when he said something discipline and how to apply it first on one-self and lead by example, as opposite to try to impose it (discipline) it on the other's. I got caught (and subscribed) when I watched and listened that podcast about why Jocko doesn't go telling stories about certain specific stuff, and the reason why, but specially that amazingly articulated and serious answer to that particular question (while explaining some other really important stuff along the way), something happened inside me, and suddenly I've become a follower of this Podcast. Cheers!
Thank you, Jocko and Echo. There are a lot of very good advice in what you're saying. I am a junior team leader in a biotech company and your advice really helped me be a better leader (I hope), i.e., look after the interests of my guys while accomplishing our missions for the company. I find that people like you and Jordan Peterson are all saying basically the same thing, but from a different perspective, and often having the same message said in different ways can really drive the message home. If we ever meet, on your side of the ocean or on mine, the first drink is on me!
I was never a seal, far from it! One thing, especially when viewed as a member of leadership that I thought helped, was promoting daily perspective. Discipline is something that people always strive for in my opinion. Proper leadership, promotes discipline through having organization and clearly defined expectations. You can’t EVER bark orders and expect results! Respect and knowledge of subordinate strengths and weaknesses, combined with proper utilization and teaching to overcome weaknesses, is the pinnacle of leadership. I am no expert. It took a long time of introspection to be confident as a leader. Some get it from the get go and others have to take it on the chin as they fail as I did. A TEAM values not the work but how the work is done together. Perspective boils it all down and sets the tone for the goal. The small steps taken to get there can be done a thousand different ways and everyone has a different approach.
In the McDonald's food chain there is a food safety protocol called haccp. It states that the fryers need to be cleaned a minimum of 3 times a day. Now a lot of restaurants only clean them once a day, during the evening/nightshift, and if you then still decide to do a half-assed job, well, I don't know what to say. That does effect the machine, it effects the quality of the product and the particle density of the oil increases rapidly; and if that gets above a certain threshold the oil becomes cancerous. I was the guy to do the machines spotless because I could do it in less time than my co-workers WHILE assisting on the assembly line. I could have just slacked on the job and nobody would be any wiser and I would still earn the same, but I too felt like that if I couldn't take a simple job like working at a McDonald's not serious, or work with some form of discipline, could I take anything else seriously.
Just leave the oil alone in a fryer for a week... and then TRY to eat something from that god-awful fucking thing.... Ever eat a french-fry from a fryer that hasn't been cleaned in a week? YOU WILL GAG... TRUST ME... Okay, maybe it doesn't need to be so spotless that my kitchen could be a readied brain-surgery center... SO... MAYBE... there's perspective. BUT you leave that oil alone (like the 'kid' says) for a week... and serve french fries... AND those potatoes WILL absorb the "flavors"... AND they WILL be the worst thing you've ever eaten, ever.... RESOLUTION: Just cook a batch of french fries... AND ... make the 'aggravated help' eat fries out of that thing. Basically... In MY kitchen, BEFORE you charge a god damn other person to eat from it, YOU eat it. ;o)
Unmitigated Discipline is what what people should strive for in themselves. When it becomes a unconscious behavior it has the psychological security of a ritual and the effectiveness of rolling along over 80% success in all activities without recognizing the efforts that are being applied. For example in the kitchen clean as you go... clean as you go and at the end of long shift clean up about an hour... don’t clean as you go and tail dragging hours and something is left undone... blaring obviousness the next morning. Everything is like that... if your making a mess of things it should be because something else is a priority and clean up is part of the process. People often don’t appreciate good leadership until they have experienced bad leadership. They don’t appreciate honesty until they trip over dishonesty. Imitation is flattery. Do things so well and effective that people want your results to be their results. Unmitigated disciple is a self imposed expression of action. Micromanaging is not good leadership. Setting the correct standards and ensuring that people are fully capable of achieving the goal. Then managing the success of the cooperative community by understanding the environment and individuals involved. Leadership is not about using sticks and carrots to get things done; but recognizing the value that it creates. A pat on the back... some people only work when being scrutinized and some people work harder when they are not... knowing who needs the acknowledgement and who is self disciplined... one person is always praised and yet the other guy is the one who is always retained. Appearance and substance are very different things. Each has its uses and purposes. Often rewards are not simply for the person being rewarded. The rewards are so the other people recognize what is valuable and what to emulate. The reward of unmitigated discipline is that nothing is difficult and there is no work. Just events to keep occupied and prevent boredom. LOL... it’s like living in a different universe.
Day 1 if you say,"I'm in charge because of my rank" it is ok. If months in you are still telling people you are in charge because of your rank you have failed as a leader.
My mom used to vacuum under a big rug in our house, and because she would roll it up everytime and roll it out afterwards, a brittle layer on the underside of it would gradually crack up and leave small pieces on the floor after rolling it up. So she would always vacuum under the carpet because she thought there was dirt under it. When me and my siblings were assigned to vacuum, she told us to do it like her and she never quite understood why we didn't take her serious about it. I tried explaining to her that there wouldn't be any dirt under it if the carpet would never be moved, but she was stuck in mindless discipline.
The kite reference was awesome cause the strings represent the route of discipline needed to complete a task, either being a stronghold disciplinary or being a more lenient leader.(2 strings of the kite) and the wind represents the attitude of the learner, is she/he bought into the program or do they need the example of someone whos disciplined and knows the right way to do things.
"When something actually important comes up ... they don't know what's important or what's not because you say that _everything's_ important." You need to triage your tasks, basically. To understand what is essential to do _right fucking now,_ and what is essential to do _at some stage._
It is only fair to say that the CPT Sobel in the movie was more of a caricature of the real man. Men who were there at the time gave him a lot of credit for the work he put in. Although the lesson Jocko imparts is valid and true.
That is true. Too bad he seems to have never really grasped the overall picture though. From Wikipedia: "In 1970, Sobel shot himself in the head with a small-caliber pistol in an attempted suicide. The bullet entered his left temple, passed behind his eyes, and exited the other side of his head. This severed his optic nerves and left him blind. Soon afterward, he began living at a VA assisted-living facility in Waukegan, Illinois. He died there of malnutrition on 30 September 1987. No memorial services were held for him."
Wow ...! But it does depend on your circumstances, yep imposing discipline on others Jocko absolutely! Some people like cleanliness and almost neurotic tidiness. Yep spot on you are deservedly what you are Jocko, a "leader" par excellence. Like the lack of self-awareness correlates with an obsession about discipline, a leader might say loosen up , relax, don't try so hard, don't give yourself a hard time, relax, even chill out ! Captain Sobel needs some hardened wild living survivor to take him to task , bullies make dreadful leaders because secretly they always want to be upfront , in the limelight to prove something.
I work fast food and I have gained some responsibility. I am not a manager or supervisor but I put away the truck delivery and have been put in charge of ordering. I worked my way to day shift but came from the night. Sometimes I am put on closing shifts to fill in and sometimes to train. I find it hard to train people on night shift because they are constantly influenced by the regular closers. I try to show them the right way to do things but they end up just doing things the lazy way. It's frustrating because the shift leaders who close are the weakest in the store and they are unable to keep control of their subordinates. Eventually I would like to move to management but I don't see how that is possible if I can't lead my team currently.
Be disciplined to apply the appropriate amount of effort to all things. Never let yourself apply less effort to something than it requires. If something needs a 10, don't give it an 8. If something needs a 3, don't give it a 2.
The answer to this question is simple... You have to start by understanding Malcolm gladwell's book tipping points. If you understand tipping points then you understand why you need to police even things that seem negligible with unmitigated discipline.
in order to hold down a rebellion, ones actions to install control, from the start, some things must be unmitigated, and then once under control mitigated were needed with the small things. and the position your in, the control or the controlled.
I was watching a documentary on Tsun Tzu on history channel a while ago, I don't think it's on youtube anymore but one of the guys they were interviewing said something that really resonated with me, I forget the exact words he used but basically he said that throughout history there have been examples of what he called "fussing", generals would be fussing over whether or not their men had the right rifles or the right boots, whether or not their uniforms were clean or if they had rust on their bayonets when there's an objective that needs accomplishing and that's the kind of thing that can cost entire wars. Fussing over little things that are important on the parade ground should be kept to the parade ground, when shit needs doing you've got to get out there and do it, as long as what you've got is fit for purpose, honestly the little things have to take a back seat to the over-arching objective. I think a lot of people could do with more of that in their day-to-day lives, including me. I'm also reminded of the Norse god Tyr, one of the things he stood for was sacrifice in the name of the long-term goal, I think that sentiment fits in fairly neatly with this mind-set.
Who is Tsun Tzu? Do you mean Sun Tzu? Back when Sun Tzu was writing _The Art of War,_ nobody even knew what a rifle was, and they didn't have bayonets since people were fighting with actual spears, lol. I don't think they even had firearms back then, either. What you describe is nothing remarkable, though--it is the principle that has underpinned military discipline from the time of the ancient Sumerians to today. Well-disciplined and precise soldiers will nearly always decisively thrash more skilled, but undisciplined warriors. Look at the conflicts between Rome and the Gauls, Britons, and Germanic tribes--those tribesmen were individually better fighters than your average Roman legionnaire, but the Roman soldier had a level of discipline and precision that his barbaric opponents lacked.
@@Schwarzvogel1 I've seen his name written both ways and the documentary was questioning whether or not he predicted the outcome to major battles before they happened, looking at how his teachings were ignored and why it lead to disaster and how they were followed and why it lead to success.
I think the “fly the kite” analogy was that you have to pay attention to the signals the wind (situation) is telling you and adapt your approach, responding with the appropriate resistance and yielding at the appropriate times, in order to get the kite up in the air and maintain it there-otherwise that kite is coming crashing down or it’s not even going to get off the ground to begin with.
And as part of that balance that Maj Winter's showed, he drank with his men. They were saying they wouldn't follow a "Quaker" into Battle. He showed them that he could drink and he could be capable of these other things but that he was disciplined himself. This type of leadership was shown again, And again, when he led taking out the guns in Normandy and when he was the first one up and across the field. This type of trust and faith in a leader takes time and you can't SHOW it. Other will look for it. They will see what you think they didn't see and the won't see what you think they should.
I remember a guy like that in high school who was on the ROTC team. One day the school allowed students to wear hats for spirit week. He went off on me in class when I came in with a hat about how i was being disrespectful to the military. I told him no, and reminded him what the school said. When the teacher came in five minutes later, she said i was allowed to wear it. That shut him up. Ten years later, i found out he was arrested for child pornography and went to boot camp as punishment.
Overly disciplined persons tends to do that kind of things. I mean that child pornography case... In finland amongst the highly disciplined military personnel there's a problem with alcohol and other drugs usage on "free-time". They force themselves to be disciplined, but the problem is that it's not always like that as i mentioned. One entrepreuner-philosopher type of guy I know once said that lots of high-discipline demanding profession workers have a dark-side, and they are not hiding it. You need to be really stoic person to be able to have a career in military without any "side-effects".
Not necessarily. There is an aspect of weighing importance over the long term that must be accounted for. When I go to sweep my driveway, I don't take the extra 2 hours it would take to get all the little sand particles put of the cracks, my time is more valuable spent on many other possible activities.
Ive worked for several mom and pop oilfield companies in my life. Many of them have confused being the boss as being a leader. Those two can be the same thing but I think its rare.
They are civilians they can handle truth, it hurts their fragile feelings! That being said, tell them what you want from them, and why it has to be done right! Then come back 30 minutes later to see if they are doing it right, if not retrain them! Each process does matter, as someone in the stem fields if you do not do them correctly, and at the right moment you could have just wasted days, weeks, months, or years of research, and the valuable resources and time that it took for to complete them!
As I recall he did not duck Douglas MacArthur, (born January 26, 1880, Little Rock, Arkansas, U.S.-died April 5, 1964, Washington, D.C.), U.S. general who commanded the Southwest Pacific Theatre in World War II, administered postwar Japan during the Allied occupation that followed I was a boy in D.C. when he passed. I came close to greatness a couple of times. Story for another time. Thing is guys. When I was growing up. I expected, inspections. still do but they don't come from Dad any more. dichotomy of leadership When one soldier falls .. others carry him. Them is some pretty big shoes to fill. Our Fathers Who are in heaven ..
Pay attention to details, but emphasize the details that really matter. You might clean the fryer in a finicky manner, but as long as everyone meets a generally clean standard it is good. A daily sweep with a bleach solution mop once a week, maybe half an hour a week total.
I remember I would get shit sometimes for doing things faster, more effectively, and more efficiently. They would ask "Why did you do that?" I didn't even have time to explain so I said "Just to make you mad.". Obviously I was joking. They saw why I would do what I did. Frankly I was picking up their slack because they were doing everything according to what they thought the book said and leaving a ton of work undone. I used my own discipline and people didn't always like me but they did respect me because I got what needed to be done finished in time, efficiently, and effectively. Customers were happy with me and my work but I didn't do things by the book. The friar was as clean as we could get it but so was the grill and we made sure to have enough food and food food containers because it went fast when I was working on the crew.
Our in your relationship. 2 strong men together, one supporting the other so both can shine in their own right. No need to slit troats and be dog eat dog. Never heard of that series, but it might be an American thing.
Question for Jocko: What to do when 'leadership' doesn't work? I've lived with my girlfriend for 4+ years. I have an active lifestyle. She does not. Her hobby is watching TV. I hate TV. Of course the simple answer is to leave, but no matter how much self-discipline you have or have a daily commitment to self-improvement some people will never want to improve. What to do then?
I have to disagree here with Jocko on this. A spotless fryer is a sign of many things, amd it also maintains clean oil longer, which costs a lot - it's not a waste of time. In the Marine Corps guys gotta make their racks Perfect with extreme attention to detail - it's not like if bombs are going off they're going to quickly their racks, just like no ones going to be cleaning the fryer during a lunch rush. Similarly, a cook needs be able to pay attention to the smaller details and master them while organizing their time before they can move on towards being a chef/leader in the kitchen. I've heard this idea echo'd numerous times by military personnel. You can honestly tell a lot about someone's work ethic/organization in how they maintain their workstation in a kitchen, and that's not a skill just limited to the kitchen, that's a universal ability that transfers over to many things, including saving lives - attention to detail is HUGE.
I don't know that you're disagreeing with him in any essential sense. The question is whether it's essential to clean the fryer _right now this very instant_ (maybe not) or whether it's essential to clean the fryer at some stage during a particular timeframe (no maybe, the answer is yes). Certainly it's true that if you let it slide long enough, a dirty fryer can very much become a life and death situation. Whether through food hygiene issues or (why yes, I _have_ worked in some shitholes, how could you tell?) actually becoming a fire hazard. For me, the correct approach (both with this particular issue and generalising to others) is to try to have people get the cleaning done during the normal course of events, but to have a team that can just tell you, "Hey, we didn't have time to do this thing. We need to make time to do it." and for you to hear them when they say that.
Yeah... leaders do more than yell and scream...I had one and it made my tour more of a pain in the ass and placed me in a situation where I couldn't control my guys when I'm kneecapped in front of them.... yeah military bearing was gone half way through.....I chose to mop my gym floor,I didn't want the sweat smell and needed to control infections
don’t count on others cause u gotta find it in ur self brotha. I guess just set that alarm clock and follow through. my words can’t make u do it but ur actions will. good luck dude.
"Little things do matter… but you gotta remember they only matter a little"
I think that sums it up
I don't think so.. Its more like think before you act. What you said is more like making up another simple rule that you want to follow because it is straight forward.
Dan Crenshaw pointed that out in his interview. Sweat the small things and the big things will take care of themselves.
I disagree. It is the little things that make the day go smoothly. Screw up or slack off on the little things and it not only causes unnecessary problems, it also breeds laziness.
Matthew Osborn it’s more of an indication than the little thing itself is the problem. If you cut corners on this little thing what is going to be your discipline/attitude towards other more important things?
I believe its partially right.
Little things matter a little while they're being taken care of. But there are millions of little things and they matter just as much as the big things in the long term.
Like if you decide not to get those few reps in one day.. then the next you say, oh it's not that big of a deal. I can probably miss them today too. After a while you'll see your self plateauing cause you're not pushing hard anymore.
I’m not one to argue with Jocko, but that fryer is mission critical, sir.
Yeah but any fryer worth it's salt is going to be able to go several hours/shifts if not days in a lower volume environment without being cleaned. And when you do have to clean it, the kitchen comes to a standstill. Not only do you have a fryer out of commission, but you have to dedicate a cook to cleaning it for 20-60 minutes depending on the situation.
Luke Oberrieder Negative, at the McDonalds I was station at we cleaned the fryers twice a day. Also, we had
multiple fryers and multiple burger assemblers holding the line. The kitchen never came to a “standstill”. I don’t know where you severed (Wendy’s - I’m guessing) but at our McDonalds we held the line at all times. We couldn’t risk being overrun.
@@BetaBuxDelux thank you for your service
If there's one thing I learned from the military it's that cleaning things that never get used is the single most important aspect of combat. If you can't keep that fryer clean then how are you going to execute the OIF/OEF Theater Wide Brass and Ammo Call?
Not one to argue with Jocko, but the kite analogy is legit.
After being a full-time employee for almost 40 years, if my company told me "unmitigated daily discipline in all things" was our new company policy, I'd be out of there in five minutes.
A lot of guys think leadership is bossing people around
Im okay with some boosting.
I'm sure he meant "bossing" around. If not, he needs to not assume people know bullshit lingo.
I want to say something but I don't know if he said boosting or bossing
@@anthonyy_vivid5438 bossing but typo is my Spanish last name
@@keithode1737 Probably autocorrect, the bane of our spelling ability.
Jocko for President
Definitely.
Kalen Ruggiero Better than the two so-called options forced on us.
@@Edgar-Friendly Forced on us? Feel free to run. Jocko isn't orange enough for me personally but at least he doesn't have dementia.
@@jeffersonbuckles8905. Indeed😅, it is odd how Mr. Tumps orange seems to fade and come back again on occasion.
Empirical panzer VII has to do with planetary alignment
As someone who leads engineering teams, the development and engagement of my people comes first. I believe if you’re in a leadership position your first goal should be to remove obstacles that block your people. Next to that is to provide vision, guidance and training.
Great message here. My unit was hit by an ied in marjah during an op, 9 years ago today. 4-23-11. It split the matv into two pieces not including the turret. Called in a 9-line and got them out of there.we pushed on as the mission wasn’t completed, all while receiving positive sitreps on their condition. Later that day as we regrouped for a sitrep on our brothers, literally just crossed back in the wire and gunny was on us about wearing our covers and having our frog tops zipped up and tucked in. Only to tell us that they lied to us earlier and two of our brothers died en route. Surprisingly the 1stsgt set him straight. But damn, what a terrible time to chew someone out about a zipper and a cover.
“Till Valhalla Sean and Dominic.”
These things you are speaking of, the balance and dichotomy of leadership, these things can not be taught from reading a book. It’s not a simple mental thing, it is understanding the nature of humanity and in turn knowing yourself and what motivates us to follow a person in willful submission.
It’s a shame there aren’t more leaders like Jocko in the military. Good leaders, like good people, are often hard to find.
The more I hear of Jocko's philisophy, the more I realize I recognized those values and put work towards them.
These dudes are in such great shape, even their thoughts have muscles.
In shape? They look abnormally grown. JW looks fat already.
Last time I was this early, Jocko Said "Good Morning Echo"
I really need to watch Band of Brothers again. It's been years.
I like these little clips from the Q+A sessions.
It's easy for things to get lost listening to 25 questions and answers in one video but singling out individual questions like this makes them easier to remember and therefore more impactful.
Same personality seen in We Were Soldiers Once: upon seeing an LT hooah-hooahing (Let's go! Let's go!) his platoon during training, the sgt maj remarks to the company CO that the LT is a danger, a guy looking to win medals. And the LT does win one...posthumously.
Sobel...was extreme
But he United his troops in their loathing for him
And many say he made Easy company
The thing is - maybe Dick Winters couldn’t have trained Easy into the fine unit they became
Perhaps the point is that different leadership styles are required at different times for different scenarios
And the very hard thing is one persons shifting between multiple styles
That’s why few Founders become public company CEOs.
Founders are directive and lead with a military urgency cos cash is burning at startup and there is a race against time to find product- market fit and get cash in
But public company CEOs are typically more collaborative. Only about 25 percent of Founders make it to CEO
So, isn’t the art being able to adapt leadership style? Knowing what style applies and when.
Can you talk about that Jocko?
Incorrect. Sobel was a total failure as a leader and as a teacher. He was also a failure as a human being. He was a wife beater and abusive father. Easy Company did what they did in spite of him,not because of him
I'm a CO this is too true, you need balance so that when you tell inmates to do things that matter they know that it isn't you messing with them, they will take it seriously simply because YOU said it. Great leadership advice this episode.
Anytime a video of Jocko's podcast even shows up on my UA-cam front-page, I just get to work already, also the bass on Jocko's voice is so great, it reminds me of Lo-Fi hip hop, which helps me concentrate while I work with the video on the background
So, regarding the kite analogy: the kite is your team, left and right handles are the dichotomy of leadership, and the string is the discipline; the shorter it is, the more control. The idea is to release as much string because you want to see your kite fly high. But if you don’t know how to orient the kite, it won’t fly and instead it will crash. I got you Echo! I had kite day every year from the ages 5-11 when i was a young’un.
This hits home, I'm a cook at Del Taco and I do the closing shift and enjoy cleaning the fryer every night. I'm also in community college getting ready to transfer.
Interesting,.tell us mor..zzzzz
Just imagine eco flying a kite😂
You mean man handling an escaping kite?
*ECHO**
Imagine him at a child's B-Day party. He's got a cute tiger painted on his face with a pink party hat 😂
Actually, I can see him doing that Jocko on the other hand would be amazing to see in that situation
I'm interested on reading "The Dichotomy of Leadership"; that extract when he said something discipline and how to apply it first on one-self and lead by example, as opposite to try to impose it (discipline) it on the other's.
I got caught (and subscribed) when I watched and listened that podcast about why Jocko doesn't go telling stories about certain specific stuff, and the reason why, but specially that amazingly articulated and serious answer to that particular question (while explaining some other really important stuff along the way), something happened inside me, and suddenly I've become a follower of this Podcast.
Cheers!
the kite analogy was actually fire lol
I love how you can refer back to your book instead of having to explain those details again and again. Unless people are new to that aspect.
Another great podcast Echo & Jocko! Loved the Band of Brothers comparison, that brought back some memories hahaha
This is so Cool, and both them are so articulated.
Cheers!
‘Discipline yourself in your use of discipline.’
Thank you, Jocko and Echo. There are a lot of very good advice in what you're saying. I am a junior team leader in a biotech company and your advice really helped me be a better leader (I hope), i.e., look after the interests of my guys while accomplishing our missions for the company. I find that people like you and Jordan Peterson are all saying basically the same thing, but from a different perspective, and often having the same message said in different ways can really drive the message home. If we ever meet, on your side of the ocean or on mine, the first drink is on me!
I was never a seal, far from it! One thing, especially when viewed as a member of leadership that I thought helped, was promoting daily perspective. Discipline is something that people always strive for in my opinion. Proper leadership, promotes discipline through having organization and clearly defined expectations. You can’t EVER bark orders and expect results! Respect and knowledge of subordinate strengths and weaknesses, combined with proper utilization and teaching to overcome weaknesses, is the pinnacle of leadership. I am no expert. It took a long time of introspection to be confident as a leader. Some get it from the get go and others have to take it on the chin as they fail as I did. A TEAM values not the work but how the work is done together. Perspective boils it all down and sets the tone for the goal. The small steps taken to get there can be done a thousand different ways and everyone has a different approach.
The person asking the question might just be Dwight Shrute
NO... HE/ She just never served french-fries out of an otherwise uncleaned frier... Trust me, you do NOT want that. ;o)
gnarth d'arkanen You also sound like Dwight Shrute
Irond3vil2 sounds more like Ron Swanson tbh
Dwight would never ask somebody to advice how to boss people around
@Jim Draper beats. Bears. Battle star galactica.
Thank you. I’m going through a transition. Things got left behind, others have decayed.
In the McDonald's food chain there is a food safety protocol called haccp. It states that the fryers need to be cleaned a minimum of 3 times a day. Now a lot of restaurants only clean them once a day, during the evening/nightshift, and if you then still decide to do a half-assed job, well, I don't know what to say. That does effect the machine, it effects the quality of the product and the particle density of the oil increases rapidly; and if that gets above a certain threshold the oil becomes cancerous.
I was the guy to do the machines spotless because I could do it in less time than my co-workers WHILE assisting on the assembly line. I could have just slacked on the job and nobody would be any wiser and I would still earn the same, but I too felt like that if I couldn't take a simple job like working at a McDonald's not serious, or work with some form of discipline, could I take anything else seriously.
Lol, im curious what a cook in the Marine Corps might have to say about not having a spotless fryer.
Just leave the oil alone in a fryer for a week... and then TRY to eat something from that god-awful fucking thing....
Ever eat a french-fry from a fryer that hasn't been cleaned in a week?
YOU WILL GAG... TRUST ME...
Okay, maybe it doesn't need to be so spotless that my kitchen could be a readied brain-surgery center... SO... MAYBE... there's perspective.
BUT you leave that oil alone (like the 'kid' says) for a week... and serve french fries... AND those potatoes WILL absorb the "flavors"... AND they WILL be the worst thing you've ever eaten, ever....
RESOLUTION: Just cook a batch of french fries... AND ... make the 'aggravated help' eat fries out of that thing.
Basically... In MY kitchen, BEFORE you charge a god damn other person to eat from it, YOU eat it. ;o)
gnarth d'arkanen roger sir
@@whoknows8500 A fellow of culture... (or rather someone else who has gagged and maybe thrown up, too)...
Glad to know you, sir! ;o)
gnarth d'arkanen bro why are you writing essays to each and every one of these comments lmaoo
I listened to this, in full, to remind myself that some ppl only worry about nice problems. What I wouldn't give for this to be my main concern.
Never disappoints!! 🔥🔥🔥
Excellent! Very amusing.
Unmitigated Discipline is what what people should strive for in themselves. When it becomes a unconscious behavior it has the psychological security of a ritual and the effectiveness of rolling along over 80% success in all activities without recognizing the efforts that are being applied. For example in the kitchen clean as you go... clean as you go and at the end of long shift clean up about an hour... don’t clean as you go and tail dragging hours and something is left undone... blaring obviousness the next morning. Everything is like that... if your making a mess of things it should be because something else is a priority and clean up is part of the process. People often don’t appreciate good leadership until they have experienced bad leadership. They don’t appreciate honesty until they trip over dishonesty. Imitation is flattery. Do things so well and effective that people want your results to be their results. Unmitigated disciple is a self imposed expression of action. Micromanaging is not good leadership. Setting the correct standards and ensuring that people are fully capable of achieving the goal. Then managing the success of the cooperative community by understanding the environment and individuals involved. Leadership is not about using sticks and carrots to get things done; but recognizing the value that it creates. A pat on the back... some people only work when being scrutinized and some people work harder when they are not... knowing who needs the acknowledgement and who is self disciplined... one person is always praised and yet the other guy is the one who is always retained. Appearance and substance are very different things. Each has its uses and purposes. Often rewards are not simply for the person being rewarded. The rewards are so the other people recognize what is valuable and what to emulate. The reward of unmitigated discipline is that nothing is difficult and there is no work. Just events to keep occupied and prevent boredom. LOL... it’s like living in a different universe.
Thanks. This is virtue vs. vice, vice is unbalanced, virtue is balanced.
Day 1 if you say,"I'm in charge because of my rank" it is ok. If months in you are still telling people you are in charge because of your rank you have failed as a leader.
My mom used to vacuum under a big rug in our house, and because she would roll it up everytime and roll it out afterwards, a brittle layer on the underside of it would gradually crack up and leave small pieces on the floor after rolling it up. So she would always vacuum under the carpet because she thought there was dirt under it. When me and my siblings were assigned to vacuum, she told us to do it like her and she never quite understood why we didn't take her serious about it. I tried explaining to her that there wouldn't be any dirt under it if the carpet would never be moved, but she was stuck in mindless discipline.
He takes ownership at the end there. Good one Jocko discipline is real
The kite reference was awesome cause the strings represent the route of discipline needed to complete a task, either being a stronghold disciplinary or being a more lenient leader.(2 strings of the kite) and the wind represents the attitude of the learner, is she/he bought into the program or do they need the example of someone whos disciplined and knows the right way to do things.
"When something actually important comes up ... they don't know what's important or what's not because you say that _everything's_ important."
You need to triage your tasks, basically. To understand what is essential to do _right fucking now,_ and what is essential to do _at some stage._
Pick and choose your battles!
It is only fair to say that the CPT Sobel in the movie was more of a caricature of the real man. Men who were there at the time gave him a lot of credit for the work he put in. Although the lesson Jocko imparts is valid and true.
That is true. Too bad he seems to have never really grasped the overall picture though. From Wikipedia: "In 1970, Sobel shot himself in the head with a small-caliber pistol in an attempted suicide. The bullet entered his left temple, passed behind his eyes, and exited the other side of his head. This severed his optic nerves and left him blind. Soon afterward, he began living at a VA assisted-living facility in Waukegan, Illinois. He died there of malnutrition on 30 September 1987. No memorial services were held for him."
Some of the guys said, “he was an asshole, but he made us what we were”.
I wish he had a better life.
One of my favorite podcast episodes! So many slip up here.
This guy gets it. Like really gets it. Experience speaking. Wise words.
Jocko is a really smart guy.
Yes! Darkshine Alloy (echocharles) is back harder than ever!
How do you expect to slay the Hun with a half clean fryer....?
just gimme a drink bill
I think Jocko can help me through behavioural questions in Job interviews😎
Mr. Wendy's knows how to make fries
Wow ...! But it does depend on your circumstances, yep imposing discipline on others Jocko absolutely!
Some people like cleanliness and almost neurotic tidiness. Yep spot on you are deservedly what you are Jocko, a "leader" par excellence.
Like the lack of self-awareness correlates with an obsession about discipline, a leader might say loosen up , relax, don't try so hard, don't give yourself a hard time, relax, even chill out !
Captain Sobel needs some hardened wild living survivor to take him to task , bullies make dreadful leaders because secretly they always want to be upfront , in the limelight to prove something.
I work fast food and I have gained some responsibility. I am not a manager or supervisor but I put away the truck delivery and have been put in charge of ordering. I worked my way to day shift but came from the night. Sometimes I am put on closing shifts to fill in and sometimes to train. I find it hard to train people on night shift because they are constantly influenced by the regular closers. I try to show them the right way to do things but they end up just doing things the lazy way. It's frustrating because the shift leaders who close are the weakest in the store and they are unable to keep control of their subordinates. Eventually I would like to move to management but I don't see how that is possible if I can't lead my team currently.
Be disciplined to apply the appropriate amount of effort to all things. Never let yourself apply less effort to something than it requires. If something needs a 10, don't give it an 8. If something needs a 3, don't give it a 2.
where is the full part of this ?
i regularly watch his clips in this channel , is there any other place where i can watch full version ?
The answer to this question is simple... You have to start by understanding Malcolm gladwell's book tipping points. If you understand tipping points then you understand why you need to police even things that seem negligible with unmitigated discipline.
This is Gold👍
Band of Brothers reference. Awesome
Unmitigated dichotomy discipline
in order to hold down a rebellion, ones actions to install control, from the start, some things must be unmitigated, and then once under control mitigated were needed with the small things. and the position your in, the control or the controlled.
I was watching a documentary on Tsun Tzu on history channel a while ago, I don't think it's on youtube anymore but one of the guys they were interviewing said something that really resonated with me, I forget the exact words he used but basically he said that throughout history there have been examples of what he called "fussing", generals would be fussing over whether or not their men had the right rifles or the right boots, whether or not their uniforms were clean or if they had rust on their bayonets when there's an objective that needs accomplishing and that's the kind of thing that can cost entire wars. Fussing over little things that are important on the parade ground should be kept to the parade ground, when shit needs doing you've got to get out there and do it, as long as what you've got is fit for purpose, honestly the little things have to take a back seat to the over-arching objective. I think a lot of people could do with more of that in their day-to-day lives, including me. I'm also reminded of the Norse god Tyr, one of the things he stood for was sacrifice in the name of the long-term goal, I think that sentiment fits in fairly neatly with this mind-set.
Who is Tsun Tzu? Do you mean Sun Tzu? Back when Sun Tzu was writing _The Art of War,_ nobody even knew what a rifle was, and they didn't have bayonets since people were fighting with actual spears, lol. I don't think they even had firearms back then, either.
What you describe is nothing remarkable, though--it is the principle that has underpinned military discipline from the time of the ancient Sumerians to today. Well-disciplined and precise soldiers will nearly always decisively thrash more skilled, but undisciplined warriors. Look at the conflicts between Rome and the Gauls, Britons, and Germanic tribes--those tribesmen were individually better fighters than your average Roman legionnaire, but the Roman soldier had a level of discipline and precision that his barbaric opponents lacked.
@@Schwarzvogel1 I've seen his name written both ways and the documentary was questioning whether or not he predicted the outcome to major battles before they happened, looking at how his teachings were ignored and why it lead to disaster and how they were followed and why it lead to success.
I think the “fly the kite” analogy was that you have to pay attention to the signals the wind (situation) is telling you and adapt your approach, responding with the appropriate resistance and yielding at the appropriate times, in order to get the kite up in the air and maintain it there-otherwise that kite is coming crashing down or it’s not even going to get off the ground to begin with.
"You need to shave?" Lol..."just holding the line"
And as part of that balance that Maj Winter's showed, he drank with his men. They were saying they wouldn't follow a "Quaker" into Battle. He showed them that he could drink and he could be capable of these other things but that he was disciplined himself. This type of leadership was shown again, And again, when he led taking out the guns in Normandy and when he was the first one up and across the field. This type of trust and faith in a leader takes time and you can't SHOW it. Other will look for it. They will see what you think they didn't see and the won't see what you think they should.
I remember a guy like that in high school who was on the ROTC team. One day the school allowed students to wear hats for spirit week. He went off on me in class when I came in with a hat about how i was being disrespectful to the military. I told him no, and reminded him what the school said. When the teacher came in five minutes later, she said i was allowed to wear it. That shut him up.
Ten years later, i found out he was arrested for child pornography and went to boot camp as punishment.
Overly disciplined persons tends to do that kind of things. I mean that child pornography case... In finland amongst the highly disciplined military personnel there's a problem with alcohol and other drugs usage on "free-time". They force themselves to be disciplined, but the problem is that it's not always like that as i mentioned.
One entrepreuner-philosopher type of guy I know once said that lots of high-discipline demanding profession workers have a dark-side, and they are not hiding it.
You need to be really stoic person to be able to have a career in military without any "side-effects".
Just bought your book on audible woot
How you do one thing you do all things
Not necessarily. There is an aspect of weighing importance over the long term that must be accounted for. When I go to sweep my driveway, I don't take the extra 2 hours it would take to get all the little sand particles put of the cracks, my time is more valuable spent on many other possible activities.
Ive worked for several mom and pop oilfield companies in my life. Many of them have confused being the boss as being a leader. Those two can be the same thing but I think its rare.
They are civilians they can handle truth, it hurts their fragile feelings! That being said, tell them what you want from them, and why it has to be done right! Then come back 30 minutes later to see if they are doing it right, if not retrain them!
Each process does matter, as someone in the stem fields if you do not do them correctly, and at the right moment you could have just wasted days, weeks, months, or years of research, and the valuable resources and time that it took for to complete them!
How do we know what matters though?
It's like flying a kite. I was dying laughing.
As I recall he did not duck
Douglas MacArthur, (born January 26, 1880, Little Rock, Arkansas, U.S.-died April 5, 1964, Washington, D.C.), U.S. general who commanded the Southwest Pacific Theatre in World War II, administered postwar Japan during the Allied occupation that followed
I was a boy in D.C. when he passed. I came close to greatness a couple of times. Story for another time.
Thing is guys. When I was growing up. I expected, inspections.
still do but they don't come from Dad any more.
dichotomy of leadership
When one soldier falls .. others carry him.
Them is some pretty big shoes to fill.
Our Fathers Who are in heaven ..
0:56 jocko: i love this gig
As in, "I can't believe I'm getting paid to answer this dumb ass question "
Where can I buy "The Dichotomy of Leadership"?
Hey, Jocko whats the book called that you spoke about in this podcast
I really think the big picture is the most important.
Pay attention to details, but emphasize the details that really matter. You might clean the fryer in a finicky manner, but as long as everyone meets a generally clean standard it is good. A daily sweep with a bleach solution mop once a week, maybe half an hour a week total.
Jocko wasnt having that kite analogy
Jocko" be descipline about how you impose descipline on others" just as i was saying hes contracting himself he plays it cool and says that line.
I remember I would get shit sometimes for doing things faster, more effectively, and more efficiently. They would ask "Why did you do that?" I didn't even have time to explain so I said "Just to make you mad.". Obviously I was joking. They saw why I would do what I did. Frankly I was picking up their slack because they were doing everything according to what they thought the book said and leaving a ton of work undone. I used my own discipline and people didn't always like me but they did respect me because I got what needed to be done finished in time, efficiently, and effectively. Customers were happy with me and my work but I didn't do things by the book. The friar was as clean as we could get it but so was the grill and we made sure to have enough food and food food containers because it went fast when I was working on the crew.
This discussion reminds me of the cain mutiny and the incident with the missing strawberries.
Our in your relationship. 2 strong men together, one supporting the other so both can shine in their own right. No need to slit troats and be dog eat dog.
Never heard of that series, but it might be an American thing.
The Gustavo Fring method of fryer cleaning.
Get Admiral Mcraven on the show
McRaven. That is probably the most hardcore name I've heard this year.
Question for Jocko:
What to do when 'leadership' doesn't work?
I've lived with my girlfriend for 4+ years.
I have an active lifestyle. She does not.
Her hobby is watching TV. I hate TV.
Of course the simple answer is to leave, but no matter how much self-discipline you have or have a daily commitment to self-improvement some people will never want to improve.
What to do then?
I used to clean fryers. If you don't clean it perfectly, it makes it harder the next time, gunk builds up, and it gets pretty gross.
Jocko is probably thinking, "What have I created?"
Common sense sounds like an oxymoron yet all one can do is have understanding for those that live and learn.
Captain Winters of Easy company is my hero.
I have to disagree here with Jocko on this. A spotless fryer is a sign of many things, amd it also maintains clean oil longer, which costs a lot - it's not a waste of time. In the Marine Corps guys gotta make their racks Perfect with extreme attention to detail - it's not like if bombs are going off they're going to quickly their racks, just like no ones going to be cleaning the fryer during a lunch rush. Similarly, a cook needs be able to pay attention to the smaller details and master them while organizing their time before they can move on towards being a chef/leader in the kitchen. I've heard this idea echo'd numerous times by military personnel. You can honestly tell a lot about someone's work ethic/organization in how they maintain their workstation in a kitchen, and that's not a skill just limited to the kitchen, that's a universal ability that transfers over to many things, including saving lives - attention to detail is HUGE.
lol
I don't know that you're disagreeing with him in any essential sense. The question is whether it's essential to clean the fryer _right now this very instant_ (maybe not) or whether it's essential to clean the fryer at some stage during a particular timeframe (no maybe, the answer is yes).
Certainly it's true that if you let it slide long enough, a dirty fryer can very much become a life and death situation. Whether through food hygiene issues or (why yes, I _have_ worked in some shitholes, how could you tell?) actually becoming a fire hazard. For me, the correct approach (both with this particular issue and generalising to others) is to try to have people get the cleaning done during the normal course of events, but to have a team that can just tell you, "Hey, we didn't have time to do this thing. We need to make time to do it." and for you to hear them when they say that.
Truth
Practice makes good... enough.
Thanks!
11:33 hahahahaha
Moderation in all things, even moderation.
Yeah... leaders do more than yell and scream...I had one and it made my tour more of a pain in the ass and placed me in a situation where I couldn't control my guys when I'm kneecapped in front of them.... yeah military bearing was gone half way through.....I chose to mop my gym floor,I didn't want the sweat smell and needed to control infections
#upbeforejocko ... cuz I work graveyard shift.
Yeah be an uber Fryer cleaner, buddy. Perfect for OCS 😆
Why can you see the muscle fibers of echos arm?
This is how you advertise a book
I have hardly any discipline. How can i increase it more? i keep trying but my progress is painfully slow. Any thoughts from anyone?
Take cold a cold shower. step out of your comfort.
@@orlvndo never tried the cold showers before. Thanks
don’t count on others cause u gotta find it in ur self brotha. I guess just set that alarm clock and follow through. my words can’t make u do it but ur actions will. good luck dude.