I’ve seen employees with potential derail their path to success simply because they were jealous of the supposed attention their coworkers were getting. This is a good topic to discuss.
Whenever he talks about being patient and giving things time, it's always over a period of months. Dealing with problems like disgruntled co-workers and big egos over a period of months is pure torture
The girls on my competitive gymnastics team snubbed me even more when the owners offered ME a full-ride scholarship to stay (on the team). A private competitive gymnastics team scholarship was unheard of back in the day - probably still is. Many of the girls on the team were so snotty and "nasty" towards me, and they made practice a nightmare. That's a main reason why I quit. Happy Valentine's Day to you and your loved ones! ❤
As a newer leader I always have asked for input from senior members. If you acknowledge and respect their experience I've found that they will want you to succeed. If you go in there with the I'm the boss attitude they will not work as hard toward the common goals.
Yah back in 87 I got promoted over my seargent after 6 months. He was a darn good mentor so he became my big brother right there. Very tiny window of attitude from Daniak the maniac. The man with a big attitude. I over ranked him because he lost his.
I am adding this comment before I watch this video: I don't understand grudges, never have, they seem like dramatic bullshit for people that don't know how to keep themselves busy. I personally just ask people if they have a problem with me and then ask them why. Sometimes they will say no and ask me why I think that, sometimes they will say yes, and I will ask them if we can come to a resolution, if that is an apology, a change, or if it cannot be and we can agree to disagree. The problem I have is there are people who think they can take advantage of me because they think they are in a position of superiority, or at least that is what it seems like to me. And they tend not to listen when they think they are above you.
I find this video very interesting. In the private sector, having been on both sides, this is not what is coached to the new leader. The statement to the person passed over or holding a grudge is typically "The decision was made. The fault is yours. You either accept that or move on, but the conversation is now ended. Any further evidence of you not being a team player will result in progressive discipline up to and including termination." Having seen that a few times, I am honestly shocked the military is more gentle about such things.
My experience - I got promoted my buddy and brother didn't. They both taught me how to do the job. I did exactly like you guys said Back pedal, ego stroked, said that it changed nothing, I need you guys. I also mentioned that the management may have felt that their quality and level of experience is irreplaceable and putting me in the promotion also sets me up for failure as to its the leader's fault and secongmd tier management is the first to go when it goes south.
That's a perfect example of a situation where this would work! If you don't have a good or any relationship with them before that though they will undermine you twice as hard, and you will give them the bullet that they will use to put you down right off the bat by trying this. So many companies put their best and brightest in this crappy situation almost right out of the gate because their ideas make them so much money and then lose them because they don't consider this outcome.
Jocko and Lief, thank you for this opportunity. It's interesting that the less experienced person got the lead role instead of the more experienced one. If the junior person steps up and performs well by acknowledging the more experienced person and consistently taking correct actions, will the more experienced person not question this and think, "I could have done what he's doing too"? Furthermore, if the more experienced person admits they didn't get the role because they lack something and need to learn from the junior, it shows true leadership both at work and outside. If the more experienced person learns from the junior and later achieves a leadership role elsewhere, will the junior person never mention that they paved the way for this? Would the roles not reverse if all advice was followed?
Jocko mentions the story about how he was on an oil rig and his first time detaching, stepping back, saying what needed to be done and making a call with nobody else did. He was approached by his platoon leaders, saying “hey, that was a good call. Nice job. In another story later on in another book, Jocko mentions how he did the same thing on a training exercise in the desert. He made the call when his superiors were not making any decisions. He later got talked to by his platoon leader saying he should not have done that and the platoon leader was assessing the situation and was going to make a call. And Jocko overstepped his boundaries. I’m confused on whether or not stepping up and leading when decisions aren’t being made is a good thing or not now based on those two conflicting stories. Please help
Harry Potter defied inept tyranny to fight the greater evil. Voldemort wanted him dead, and the government was not foiling those plots. You gotta understand what's at stake when youre doing stuff for yourself that leadership isnt handling.
If a guy is payed the less than everyone else and is fixing problems no one else can it breeds resentment. Then being attacked for reinventing the wheel and jailed. 2 big egos clashing. One has beat a world champion. I can tell by the music taste it's not a nice person. U do a great job Jocko. Glad to see someone thinking.
The thing with having difficult conversations is the same as intense workouts - not enjoying the process, but the result is worth it. And i always, ALWAYS felt better afterwards.
Really? Because in Leif's first example with the two assistant team leads, the senior one would have replied to the ego massage with "ok you're right now go tell the bosses that and step down so I can step up". In the mean time they would tell everyone what you said to them verbatim and completely undermine the credibility and good will needed to lead the team. I see this a lot with this series, in real life people are always more negative and more toxic than any of the anticipated responses to the point that taking these courses of action will immediately put you in a position you can't recover from.
5:10 Totally disagree. There's always the possibility that they got passed over because of favoritism. Or the previous leader holding an unnecessary grudge against them. Not necessarily this negative confirmation bias that wilink says.
I agree with what you are saying that can happen . What he's saying is correct as well I'm going through it at this moment at my work place. Most of the time it is not a place of malice. It's who is more qualified and experienced. If the other person doesn't want to Do what they need to do to get in that same position . Then so be it
@@nemesis9176 I get what you're saying and agree for the most part. But, when you say, "it's not a place of malice", I have to take a step back. So many people get passed over bc of their age or nepotism, or bc someone is flirtatious or look good for that position. The list just goes on; they want a certain gender in that position. And the qualified person doesn't get their rightful position. Many examples in comment sections of videos like this.
I had a similar attitude, and it was the clearly spelled out to me that I was in fact more qualified and longer serving. But the human factors of being a fantastic team fit, and the right person to lead the team, the other person had in spades over me. The belief that technical skills and qualifications are all that's important...nah, it's relationships..it needs to be taken as an opportunity to learn and seek information about what you're lacking. Time to have your unknown deficiencies pointed out and learn and grow from it. That worked for me at least. Didn't get that promotion? GOOD.
Definetely a reality. Especially in NYS where merit and experience doesnt matter as much as your pronouns and skin color. Working harder wont get you ahead anymore in this state.
if someone with less experience then me was promoted above me if I couldnt learn from them I would be looking to leave when he said I might need to lean on you and it was above my job description I would think to what avail
Making an old dog do or help with your leadership job is an insult. I would tell the person nicely that it’s messed up and to move onto something else if they can’t handle the rejection. I would also ask my superiors why they didn’t pick that person so I could work with them to get them on point for when I move up again they can take my place.
Having watched it, I can say I have gotten passed up for promotions before and JR people have gotten promoted, and I am going to sound like I am bitter here but I left because I realized what I was dealing with. But the guys that got promoted from under me had a "better attitude" Which is really just a way of saying they liked him better, and that is fine I can't force someone to promote me. There are reasons that is a good choice, one of them being if your a douche nozzle like people thought I was, they realize that the people who make better leaders are the ones people like, your more likely to listen to someone that you like. There is also the possibility that I was more competent and they wanted to keep me in that position because the company wouldn't work well without me in that position. In the two places this happened, both of them ended up reducing staff or outright closing after I left. Oddly enough the two places that I felt I was the most incompetent (and I was the least qualified for), everyone wished me well when I left. Now I am completely aware that delusional people tell themselves the very same thing, and I had to at least consider that I was incompetent and delusional, but when I reflect back on my life, at age 13 I navigated my way down a mountain alone with a broken leg, that I had to walk a mile or two with the scout troop to ride an hour or so to the army base my father was stationed at. And SecNav doesn't hand out letters of commendation to asshats. So I had to assume that maybe, I wasn't totally incompetent.
"never outshine the master" ~robert greene
I’ve seen employees with potential derail their path to success simply because they were jealous of the supposed attention their coworkers were getting. This is a good topic to discuss.
Whenever he talks about being patient and giving things time, it's always over a period of months. Dealing with problems like disgruntled co-workers and big egos over a period of months is pure torture
The girls on my competitive gymnastics team snubbed me even more when the owners offered ME a full-ride scholarship to stay (on the team). A private competitive gymnastics team scholarship was unheard of back in the day - probably still is. Many of the girls on the team were so snotty and "nasty" towards me, and they made practice a nightmare. That's a main reason why I quit.
Happy Valentine's Day to you and your loved ones! ❤
Jealousy is a serious character flaw
As a newer leader I always have asked for input from senior members. If you acknowledge and respect their experience I've found that they will want you to succeed. If you go in there with the I'm the boss attitude they will not work as hard toward the common goals.
7:26 thank you! Work strees gets carried over because of passive aggressive attitudes that could have been avoided by being default aggressive!
Yah back in 87 I got promoted over my seargent after 6 months. He was a darn good mentor so he became my big brother right there. Very tiny window of attitude from Daniak the maniac. The man with a big attitude. I over ranked him because he lost his.
I am adding this comment before I watch this video: I don't understand grudges, never have, they seem like dramatic bullshit for people that don't know how to keep themselves busy. I personally just ask people if they have a problem with me and then ask them why. Sometimes they will say no and ask me why I think that, sometimes they will say yes, and I will ask them if we can come to a resolution, if that is an apology, a change, or if it cannot be and we can agree to disagree. The problem I have is there are people who think they can take advantage of me because they think they are in a position of superiority, or at least that is what it seems like to me. And they tend not to listen when they think they are above you.
I find this video very interesting. In the private sector, having been on both sides, this is not what is coached to the new leader.
The statement to the person passed over or holding a grudge is typically "The decision was made. The fault is yours. You either accept that or move on, but the conversation is now ended. Any further evidence of you not being a team player will result in progressive discipline up to and including termination." Having seen that a few times, I am honestly shocked the military is more gentle about such things.
My experience - I got promoted my buddy and brother didn't. They both taught me how to do the job.
I did exactly like you guys said
Back pedal, ego stroked, said that it changed nothing, I need you guys. I also mentioned that the management may have felt that their quality and level of experience is irreplaceable and putting me in the promotion also sets me up for failure as to its the leader's fault and secongmd tier management is the first to go when it goes south.
That's a perfect example of a situation where this would work! If you don't have a good or any relationship with them before that though they will undermine you twice as hard, and you will give them the bullet that they will use to put you down right off the bat by trying this.
So many companies put their best and brightest in this crappy situation almost right out of the gate because their ideas make them so much money and then lose them because they don't consider this outcome.
Jocko and Lief, thank you for this opportunity. It's interesting that the less experienced person got the lead role instead of the more experienced one. If the junior person steps up and performs well by acknowledging the more experienced person and consistently taking correct actions, will the more experienced person not question this and think, "I could have done what he's doing too"? Furthermore, if the more experienced person admits they didn't get the role because they lack something and need to learn from the junior, it shows true leadership both at work and outside. If the more experienced person learns from the junior and later achieves a leadership role elsewhere, will the junior person never mention that they paved the way for this? Would the roles not reverse if all advice was followed?
Jocko mentions the story about how he was on an oil rig and his first time detaching, stepping back, saying what needed to be done and making a call with nobody else did. He was approached by his platoon leaders, saying “hey, that was a good call. Nice job. In another story later on in another book, Jocko mentions how he did the same thing on a training exercise in the desert. He made the call when his superiors were not making any decisions. He later got talked to by his platoon leader saying he should not have done that and the platoon leader was assessing the situation and was going to make a call. And Jocko overstepped his boundaries. I’m confused on whether or not stepping up and leading when decisions aren’t being made is a good thing or not now based on those two conflicting stories. Please help
Harry Potter defied inept tyranny to fight the greater evil. Voldemort wanted him dead, and the government was not foiling those plots. You gotta understand what's at stake when youre doing stuff for yourself that leadership isnt handling.
It's still worth speaking up, (in the right manner) regardless. Believe in yourself.
If a guy is payed the less than everyone else and is fixing problems no one else can it breeds resentment.
Then being attacked for reinventing the wheel and jailed.
2 big egos clashing.
One has beat a world champion.
I can tell by the music taste it's not a nice person.
U do a great job Jocko.
Glad to see someone thinking.
This has content within relationships. I mean I see where I failed to talk about certain things, before things got so bad and I split from my ex.
The thing with having difficult conversations is the same as intense workouts - not enjoying the process, but the result is worth it. And i always, ALWAYS felt better afterwards.
Really? Because in Leif's first example with the two assistant team leads, the senior one would have replied to the ego massage with "ok you're right now go tell the bosses that and step down so I can step up". In the mean time they would tell everyone what you said to them verbatim and completely undermine the credibility and good will needed to lead the team.
I see this a lot with this series, in real life people are always more negative and more toxic than any of the anticipated responses to the point that taking these courses of action will immediately put you in a position you can't recover from.
Never hold a grudge! Simply go a different direction.
5:10 Totally disagree. There's always the possibility that they got passed over because of favoritism. Or the previous leader holding an unnecessary grudge against them. Not necessarily this negative confirmation bias that wilink says.
I agree with what you are saying that can happen . What he's saying is correct as well I'm going through it at this moment at my work place. Most of the time it is not a place of malice. It's who is more qualified and experienced. If the other person doesn't want to Do what they need to do to get in that same position . Then so be it
@@nemesis9176 I get what you're saying and agree for the most part. But, when you say, "it's not a place of malice", I have to take a step back. So many people get passed over bc of their age or nepotism, or bc someone is flirtatious or look good for that position. The list just goes on; they want a certain gender in that position. And the qualified person doesn't get their rightful position. Many examples in comment sections of videos like this.
I had a similar attitude, and it was the clearly spelled out to me that I was in fact more qualified and longer serving. But the human factors of being a fantastic team fit, and the right person to lead the team, the other person had in spades over me.
The belief that technical skills and qualifications are all that's important...nah, it's relationships..it needs to be taken as an opportunity to learn and seek information about what you're lacking. Time to have your unknown deficiencies pointed out and learn and grow from it.
That worked for me at least.
Didn't get that promotion? GOOD.
Yeah, it's good to have a complete understanding before making judgment calls. Jmeho.
Definetely a reality. Especially in NYS where merit and experience doesnt matter as much as your pronouns and skin color. Working harder wont get you ahead anymore in this state.
if someone with less experience then me was promoted above me if I couldnt learn from them I would be looking to leave when he said I might need to lean on you and it was above my job description I would think to what avail
Finally this could be a soul reason america is doing bad our workers have silent beefs!!!
Making an old dog do or help with your leadership job is an insult. I would tell the person nicely that it’s messed up and to move onto something else if they can’t handle the rejection. I would also ask my superiors why they didn’t pick that person so I could work with them to get them on point for when I move up again they can take my place.
Taking responsibility for someone elses feelings. Thats a tough one. Haha
How to stop coworker grudges? Start your own business. Dont have coworkers
Having watched it, I can say I have gotten passed up for promotions before and JR people have gotten promoted, and I am going to sound like I am bitter here but I left because I realized what I was dealing with. But the guys that got promoted from under me had a "better attitude" Which is really just a way of saying they liked him better, and that is fine I can't force someone to promote me. There are reasons that is a good choice, one of them being if your a douche nozzle like people thought I was, they realize that the people who make better leaders are the ones people like, your more likely to listen to someone that you like. There is also the possibility that I was more competent and they wanted to keep me in that position because the company wouldn't work well without me in that position. In the two places this happened, both of them ended up reducing staff or outright closing after I left. Oddly enough the two places that I felt I was the most incompetent (and I was the least qualified for), everyone wished me well when I left. Now I am completely aware that delusional people tell themselves the very same thing, and I had to at least consider that I was incompetent and delusional, but when I reflect back on my life, at age 13 I navigated my way down a mountain alone with a broken leg, that I had to walk a mile or two with the scout troop to ride an hour or so to the army base my father was stationed at. And SecNav doesn't hand out letters of commendation to asshats. So I had to assume that maybe, I wasn't totally incompetent.
Eventually someone will know your talent, press on brother and be kind.
@@derrickkaliney762 Thank you, I appreciate the message, I hope the same for you.
I play rank
sup
You get promoted by quitting. Don’t cast your pearls before swine. Move on.
Agreed I have quit my last five jobs got a $5 raise on every offer Went from $25 per hour to now $100000 salary which is $50 an hour
Industrial machine factory maintenance mechanic if you’re wondering no college just knowledge of all trades
what if you do know why? lie to the guy?
Get out.
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