The Death Of MID-FI headphones...
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- Опубліковано 27 кві 2024
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You have some older videos that still say “Good audio is getting cheap, and cheap audio is getting good” this isnt new but theres certainly been enough baby steps to warrant a leap in the meta
I love the fact DMS is using Framework 13 laptop
Based
I am very happy that more and more, the idea of sound quality being directly linked to price is being challenged. we’re seeing so many more great products at cheaper prices. I find it exciting to see how good things can get at lower price brackets, as well it’s nice for people new to the hobby. many want to try new things, but it can be expensive if you’re only chasing the most expensive stuff. As well unfortunately I’ve seen “lowfi”, “midfi”, and “hifi”, used as barriers and gatekeepers, so it’s nice to see things getting better in all price ranges
Gross, v tuber
You've got to try and get those myer audio iems in for review! cklvx d41 and sliivo sl41, both are fantastic and could be endgame material for less than $200 for some folks.
My favorite "cheap" headphones (relatively speaking) that sound great are ones you recommended awhile back. The Sennheiser HD 560S. They suit my needs perfectly.
Agree, same here.
Agreed. Good for music, good for movies, good for gaming, comfortable... Nothing wrong with this headphone.
JAck of all trades, master of none though. But you can't go wrong with it.
Sundaras are in there as well. They're really phenomenal for the price and IMO the point of diminishing returns in the hobby for the most part.
The cheapest thing I know thats really good are the fiio jt1s. The hype is fully justified. They are dirt cheap (70 dollars i paid for mine but can be gotten closer to 50 during sales) and they are incredibly impressive. The tuning is very flavored and very vshaped with a whole lot of base but they are incredibly fun and the technicalities are quite surprising for such an affordable closedback. Honestly I like them more than the sundaras.
yeep
I love my pair
Those are amazing sounding semi open headphones. I still consider them closed back though, but some argue they are open back lol. Either way for $70 they sound incredible and perfect for movies, concerts and gaming....and metal in general.
@@Hijynx87 nah they definitely are closed backs, the reviewer GREQ on here does a driver teardown in his video and you can see the solid plate behind the driver.
The JT1s are a steel. I cover the bass port at the top and get much tighter bass and they are even more incredible.
I'm deeply in love with my Arya Organics, but if 0-3 years from now that performance is available at half the cost or less, then we all benefit. I agree entirely that good being cheaper and cheap being better definitely benefits the consumer.
Maybe one day! I love my fancy headphones too 😄
Arya Stealth 759$
One thing that I have done is bought a older set of headphones and replaced the drivers to something more modern and They are the ones I seem to use the most. 40.00 for the headphones,(old early 80's Realistic Nova 40) 20.00 for a set of XL Brainwaves pads, and 20.00 for a set of 50mm Graphene drivers on Ebay and there you have it. 80.00 for a set of headphones that sound good to me. Yes there were a few other things I had to do to these overall, but it wasn't hard, maybe a few hours of work that includes drying/hardening time for some glue. May not win a beauty contest but they work and sound pretty damn good.
The K361 sounds very good for the money at medium volumes, but the driver breaks up and the sound is scratchy and crunchy If you try cranking the music loud. Spending more money should get you a better performing driver.
So in my experience, spending more money should get you a headphone that sounds smoother and silkier and more hi-fi and with a driver that can handle more complex passages and loud volumes.
The 6XX gets you there at $200. I enjoy that headphone immensely. I actually got my 6XX off of Facebook marketplace for 110 bucks like new! Might be the best 110 bucks I’ve ever spent.
I'm really excited about how the industry is gettong less opaque. I remember when I first starting getting into this years ago, and I had no idea what I was looking for or where to go to find stuff. Everywhere I looked, I was getting different asnwers and different people me what matters and what was good. I ended up pretty much trying out everything to figure it out for myself, and it was a really fun journey. But now it seems like there is so much better information out there and much more welcoming to newcomers, so I hope the communituy continues to expand!
I just got the Aune AR5000 for $299 and it is up there with the Focal Clear and the HD660S2. I can't keep up with IEMs.
I started with 6XX and the Atom Stack. The incredible sound compared to what I had before is what got me into this.
For IEM's for sure, but what about over-ear?
I considered DT 770 as a 'mid' tier closed back over-ear and like 40 years later, it's still considered top tier value wise. Feels like nothing's really happening in certain spaces
The lack of better close backs is due to them not getting released in the states (like Denon and Sony's gear), or in limited quantities (like the THX00) or at insane prices (ZMF and Dan Clark close backs).
If you want an upgrade from the 770 get a used pair of D5000 from Japan for around $260 and a pair of replacement pads for $20.
People calling headphones like the Sundara or Ananda midfi always annoyed me, how is a headphone that's better than what 99% of the population will ever hear not hi-fi 😂, makes no sense and is just a way for people who buy headphones that cost 1k plus(which is totally fine) to justify their purchases.
Watching your video while on the road great commentary and yes, things are improving and we are all looking for that unicorn which are becoming more plentiful. These are interesting days ahead in the game. That’s for sure. Take care.
I wonder if you'd be willing to review the Aune AR5000 headphones? I've been in the market for a new pair of $300 headphones and this particular pair has been compared to the likes of Sundara and HD600 recently but can't seem to find too many reviews of it on YT, at the moment (in English at least). Would definitely love more perspectives and opinions on it.
This is happening across audio. there are sound bars (yes) that rival some significantly more expensive systems. I replaced a set of Ariel 10T full range floorstanding speakers that required a lot of power with a set of Klipsche "The Fives" and theyre really good. The price to performance metrics are changing for the better.
Hey DMS, nice Vlog. Thanks.Its been a while I thought for myself asking, Do i really need to spend more money to get good/best audio. Recent purchase was the Tangzu Waner and they sound really good. So cheap audio is really getting better.
I just got into the audiophile space a few years ago. My first setup was a topping e50 and l50 stack paired with a hifiman sundara and im getting replacement pads for them. Im just about to upgrade endgame to the topping a70 and d70 pro stack, and my final headphone upgrade in the future is the hifiman arya organics. Im also buying a phone dac dongle paired with crinacles dioko iems can't wait to fully enjoy the audio. I used to only use spotify but had completely moved over to Tidal, and i love every second of the streaming platform. Anyways, I love the video, dude, and i personally wanted to go all in on the audiophile setup, which is why im buying these hifi setups.
Maybe my ears are broken but the arya organics compared to my sundara's is like night and day. Detail retrieval, soundstage, depth and layering all take a significant step up
I feel as though it’s probably FR changes doing that, but the big drivers on Arya can have some really cool effects. Either way Arya is a great headphone.
@@DMS3TV Anything past Sundara is frequency response. The driver technology is so good now thats all that seperates headphones going up. I have the edition XS also and the large drivers "sound" more spacious but as far as sounding better or better technicalities , no.
@@DMS3TV I'm a strong believer in the frequency response theory, but all the really fine squiglies that get smoothed over in graphs probably also contribute to it in some way, no? I think the driver has something to contribute to this as well regardless of the broader tuning from the chassis.
Sundara overrated af. it sounds like iem to me. i prefer my dt770's over them.
@@musicxxa6678 is an IEM a bad thing? My IEMs sound better than most headphones I have ever heard
as a happy user of the Edition XS and the HD6XX (on Little Dot mk2), I'm very satisfied with my audio options
Glad you mentioned bluetooth in the video. Lately I've been listening to my Sennheiser MTW4 a lot, after tuning them in the app, and with an AptX Lossless dongle. I still enjoy my wired IEMs, but that difference just continues to shrink, and rapidly. At 1200kbps, and almost 40-year-old ears, I'm hard pressed to hear a difference.
well weve got the moondrop dawn pro on budget-fi I dotn know about you but this thing can drive the edition xs soo
and speaking of edition xs: totl with cheap construction. period
the research you gus are providing helps me to shape my 560s and xs to be perfection.
I think the surprise for me was going from internal computer DAC to a creative labs, then fiio k7 dac. I am now on to the k9 but honestly the k7 to k9 is a very small jump in sound quality. Also used to have the AKG 240 headphones for decades. Then bought the 701s quite a few years back. Didn't think anything of the 701s till I had a proper dac / amp. Now I think they are quite good and compared them to a meze 109 pro and found I like the akg better. On a different note I made the mistake of trying the empyrean and now own them.
Great video as always. One of my cheapest audio buys ever , and in so many ways rivaling my most expensive ones, are the Dunu Titan S IEMs. You speak about FR a lot, and I totally agree that it is a main factor in cheaper stuff sounding good. Tuning is master, and lower end companies are now becoming very good at it. And the Titan S are a prime example of that. Such a neutral and detailed signature for under 100$ simply wows me. Not so long ago, you had to live with cheap items being somewhat good sounding but often wonky in some parts... But now? Less and less compromises are needed, at lower and lower price points. Such a great time to be an audiophile.
please do up-to-date dynamic and planar pros and cons with good examples
Hi DMS. Would you like to share your EQ for Sundara? Many thanks, keep up the excellent work for many years to come
I love that there are good cheap audio options out there as it is my mission in life to get as many people in to the world of audiophilia as possible, and that's a lot easier to do when I can recommend them something that is reasonably priced. That being said, I definitely don't agree with you that things like Sundara or 6xx are really competing with the higher end stuff. Hopefully some day things at that price range will though! Would be a wonderful world to live in if it happen. We do seem to be inching closer and closer to that every year
The problem I have with many summit-fi headphones is usually weight and specific gear requirements. I can save up and budget for a few more bucks but not getting a headache is hard to save up for. I have amazing headphones but weight and comfort ultimately win. I have pre-ordered your DMS Omega hoping it will plug that gap.
I feel like most of the new product introductions recently have been in the super highend space. Yeah there's some trickle down effect, but for the most part a lot of major advancements have been firmly in the summit-fi region. I actually think the budget range has been seeing some neglect lately.
My go to wire cans are still, the 6xx with tube or ss amp. Bought the Bathys for air travel and to not disturb others at night and now, use them almost daily. So much good and affordable stuff out there now for sound nerds.
I'm still looking for a closed back version of the sennheiser hd 600 that sounds exactly like the sennheiser hd 600 with the exact same tuning, frequency response, sound signature, timbre, treble, intimate vocals, imaging and sound stage. I daily drive the marble version of the sennheiser hd 600 on the bus, running errands and walking around.
The bought the Pula PA02 and Penon Fan 2 for under 140$ each. And these IEM'S sound freaking good and are build very well.
Honestly I'm glad, I'm prone to the upgrade teadmill that happens in tech, and I got into HiFi audio as a small hobby. I started with the HD 599SE. Upgraded to a $250 refurbished Sundaras in 2022. Bought a couple of IEMs, the Aria and Airpods Pro2. Gotta say Im happy with that collection and don't plan on spending more money on upgrades, but enjoy still hearing and learning about the hobby.
It’s not dead. It’s just a moved goalpost.
no you just moved the goalpost
nah son, I think mid-fi IEMs took over
Nah… tons of midfi headphones out there used for amazing values. I consider midfi from $500 - $1000 or perhaps up to $1.2k. From $1.5k to $2.5k you’re at hifi and $3k+ is summit fi.
@@DJ_BROBOTiems have come a long way. I love my sub $500 iems but still prefer my midfi headphones to the iems.
@@Matt-yp7io I wish I was that influential.
I think the KZ Castor black/bass is the best cheap IEM I have heard, with the HBBxQKZ ( the OG not the Khan or Hades ) as my second pick, and the Truthear Hola in third. All three can be found under $20, but I think the Hola has been discontinued.
Picked up the Ananda stealth this week. I already have the Sundara but was curious about how much more comfortable the larger earpads would be. Also if there would be a noticeable difference in separation. I can say the thing that surprised me most is the amount of bass they have. From everything I've read/heard about the higher end Hifiman I was expecting lots of treble. These are not that at all. I do think they are giving me everything I wanted as a improvement over the Sundara. I have a large head & ears, these pads are so much of a better fit for me. The sound is different in that whole more bass than expected way. They are a little less accepting of bad production in a recording than the Sundara. I find both sets to be kind of power hungry. But that's ok, I have a amp that can deal with them. Do I think they are worth the roughly $100 more? For me they definitely are. If you're budget is tight I also would say don't be afraid of the Sundara.
Was it Nano?
Hey dms, I see you published a video on the mdr f1, I imagine you know but there is also another model called the sony QUALIA 010
I really wish that I was able to hear all the different stuff that you do so I could be a better judge of this, but from my bit of experience I have been pretty unimpressed by some of the cheaper stuff a lot of reviewers rave about and instead being far more impressed by my more expensive purchases. Probably the best example for me is the moondrop arias, I got those because I was curious how good they really could be at that price, and ultimately I really don't understand what people hear in them, they just sound muddy to me, literally nothing about the sound stands out to me. Another example is the schiit magni heresy and modi 3+, got great reviews yet when I went to an audio store to listen to some headphones I took the time to listen to the lcd2-c that they had there, to compare to the pair that I own and I was shocked cause they sounded like completely different headphones than what I was used to on their amps. Wound up buying a more high end amp and have enjoyed all of my headphones/iems waaay more. Again, I wish I had the ability to try more products as my sample size is pretty small but from my experience, to my ears, the cheaper products even if they are received well don't come close to my more expensive stuff.
This is an exciting time for hifi. I’m hoping the Mega5 is going to be available to audition at canjam london! Plus hopefully some other affordable products that I haven’t seen yet.
luckly i hop in this hobby in recent years, like 5 or 6 :) i bought a lot of stuff that i like, i can use a different set every week to enjoy what i have bought :) and the best things is that i didn't spent too much, like you said a lot of good sounding iem / headphone are a lot cheaper now. best luck for your job and your channel, see you in the traveler in a few days guardian!
HD6xx with a good cable and tubes is divine. Comfort and great sound. Curious how the omega compares.
I think the standards between the different tiers should change. What was Hi-fi 40+ years ago are not considered even comparable to mid-fi now (build quality maybe, but sound and comfort are lacking). As hardware, software, and recording quality goes up, so do standards. I think with hi-fi audio going from a very niche demographic branching out to more general interests in the last 10 or so years, manufacturers have made more breakthroughs and invested more in R&D. Also, more companies have gotten into the field, bringing some fresh ideas and more attempts to innovate. This has changed a lot of expectations quickly on cost vs quality. Add on top of that, the growing inflation of the markets in general, especially in tech.
Well one thing that is often times over looked is the source. Very few options to give you a high quality recording & bit rate to even make the high end gear worth it. DSD is very limited so we are left w/ hi res audio from streaming services like Qobuz, Tidal, and Apple. Imagine spending thousands of dollars on gear but not have the high quality library to match. I've spent a lot of money on my audio setup, more than I should have and while I do enjoy it. I could have saved a lot of $$$ knowing what I know now.
This is my collection of gear pairings that I enjoy, all of them moderate in price:
- Questyle M15 and DT 990 PRO
- Schiit Asgard 3 + Multibit DAC and DT 990 PRO
- Fiio K7 and Fiio FT3
- FIIo K7 as DAC + Little Dot MK2 and HD6xx
I have the Sennheiser MTW2 for my daily use outside the house, but compared to my HD660S2, it doesn't even come close in sound.
Yes the 660S2 is a bit flat, but overall the sound is way better balanced. It gives me rest, where other headphones and IEM's just can't do that.
Cheaper audio has a long way to even come close to the sound coming from Mid-Fi and Hi-Fi products!
Hopefully a new generation of Audiophiles will rise because of the resurgence of vinyl!
With the recent price drop of the focal elex to 400-500$, i feel that you can get insane performance for a relatively affordable price. Same thing for the Arya V3 that goes for 759$. Unfortunately i've yet so see this trend in the speaker world =(
i purchased Focal Bathys a couple of weeks ago. I did some eq and i think they are fantastic. I can plug it in when i want higher quality but the fact that i don't need an amp or dac and it can sound so good and no strings attached if i go for a walk. Love it. is it midfi, high fi, that i don't really know. I personally don't need better then this for headphones.
Same experience here. They became my go to cans and the ANC and leather pads, so good.
I recently purchased the Ananda stealth, and they sound pretty terrible stock. I padrolled them with some lambskin pads from zmf and then EQed the hell out of them(I recommend to drop 12.7khz by like a good 7-8 db (Q value 7-8 as well), alongside the 7k and then boost: 20hz, 2khz, and 15khz, to your liking) and they now sound heavenly. I agree with you DMS about the FR as being pretty much 90% of headphone sound quality. The upper treble (the air frequencies) and the bass seem to dictate the technical capability of a headphone (there's a video precog made talking about this). Like you said, headphones are getting better and cheaper, and also with eq (and pad rolling), this is even more so.
Any plans about reviewing the new dt 770 x ?
Love the rants! I literally have been having the same thoughts recently.
For me, it’s always more enjoyable to buy something cheaper, that sounds amazing …than it is to buy something that cost a fortune that you are forever trying to justify its price.
The cheapest and best things I'm using at a daily basis are the Moondrop Dawn Pro (30ish euro at the time I bought it) paired with a pair of KB ear KS2 (28euro at the time of buying, but good enough for me).
I wonder if you have tried the Oneodio Monitor 80 Professional Studio Headphones Open Back 250Ω? I was surprised on the value of the thing, and was nicely more neutral than I expected with that company.
I think smaller not Chinese brands are going to be quite popular. I’m intrigued to check out Ollo audio, they are mid range headphones and European made
Am I missing something? I auditioned the XS and thought it sounded pretty bad.
I prefer the Senheiser 600 by a lot.
We mostly hear freq response. I think we should get a well measuring headphone with low distortion and then tweak the response with eq and be good.
I recently bought the Truthear Crinicle Zero : Red, and I've been really enjoying them. For $55 USD, they have solid bass and treble. The mids are a bit forward for my taste, but EQ fixes that. Bottom line is that they run rings around headphones I'd have lusted after even ten years ago.
Are they perfect? No, their sound stage is what you'd expect from an IEM or earbud, but they sound great, provide solid sound isolation, and are an amazing value.
Yes, it is wonderful how good some of the cheaper IEMs sound. Headphones too but the BIG leap in price-to-value has been in IEMs; I'll take a $100 iem over a $100 headphone! Although not cheap by a long shot, my recent purchases of the Modhouse Tungsten (single-sided) and the 64 Audio U4s represent fantastic value today. These two items are examples of excellent-sounding cans that cost around $1,000 to $1,500, but in the past could only be had for thousands of dollars more.
I've always had a love-hate relationship with audio/audio equipment. Headphones have to be over ear. On ear/in ear are things I can only wear for short periods of time. We're talking 20-30 minutes before I have to stop using them from the pain. Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic I can't stand as they are too sibilant to my ears. Granted, this is a me problem as even listening to some people speak who have what would be considered higher voices I can't listen too for long before it bothers me enough to leave the room. So far I have found three headphones that I love and fit the various styles of music I listen to: Meze 109 Pro, Fostex TH-X00, and the ZMFxVibro Zach put out in 2014. Now to just find a good pair of Denon AH-d5000 that don't require a whole lot of repair and my collection will be complete for many years to come. Or at least until one of the above breaks and I need to replace it.
Ath-m40x! Love my Koss Kph40! I have a k371 they’re not the most comfortable. 6xx and TYGR300R are most expensive headphones I got and go back and forth between the two. AirPods Pro are my convenience pick for sure.
He6sev2 when on sale with the Speaker adapter is the best I’ve heard for $$$. Insane performance.
can we get a whats on your shelf video soon?
With the advent of cheaper products getting better and death of the mid range.
How does that affect the 2nd hand market of high-end headphones or the sale of discontinued and heavily discounted products (e.g., Focal Clear OG)?
Only asking because I'm personally considering a Focal Clear if it's worth it or just waiting for something to be better for cheaper. (For context I already have a 6XX)
Also, congratulations on the getting on Floatplane DMS!
The Clear has awful high mids imo. For those sensitive in this 5kh -7khz they are a no no.
The Clear felt like Planar to me, awesome bass, harsh high mids/lower treble.
@@humanbass I'll second that, the Clears are quite disappointing. It was all hype that drove their adoption and being seen as this great product. I have a pair sitting in the corner of my room right now, and there's a reason I never use them.
The crazy thing to me is knowing that this is the case, but still agonizing over whether or not one model is worth it over another. Like, the Mega5EST is probably every bit as good as the AUR Ascension... But I'll keep being tempted anyway!
Temptation alone probably keeps the audio industry in business haha. I get that all the time
I have been using airpod pros and wanna get my first IEM. What would be a good start, i prefer neutral treble, not bright. Bas boost would be good? (Zero red?) Im happy to check out any recommendations
Zero Red is a solid place to start. They are not basshead IEMs though, it’s more of a subbass boost with a quiet midbass. I’m like you, I got them as my first IEM a month ago
Nova with foam tips have incredible smooth treble. Also the bass is boosted just right
Whats crazy is the HD600 on tubes is still one of the best headphones you can get and thats just usd 300! You dont have that with speakers where things have gone further. And IEM presents crazier value. More real R&D needed obviously for headphones. Yes Sundara was the default recommendation but why mention it all the time when the Para is for many just better?
In my oppinion „The Death Of Mid-Fi“ is a somewhat odd statement as the correlation of price/quality and the terms Low / Mid / Hi-Fi are technically two separate things. At least for me, the terms Low / Mid / Hi-Fi refer purely to sound quality (as the terms themselves suggest). Therefore, as long as it makes sense to put a headphone in one of these three sound quality categories, it should also make sense to use the terms Low / Mid / Hi-Fi ...
Now, the other question is about a (potential) correlation between price and sound quality. I guess there is no scientific evidence for that. But if I'd imagne a study with a representative sample of headphones and people, in which each participant would put all headphones in one of three sound quality categories, I'm pretty sure that the result would show a correlation between price and sound quality. That said, I'd also assume that this would not be a strong correlation and that it would be significantly weaker than let's say 20 years ago. Neverthess, I don't think that the relation between price and quality is completely arbitrary.
Me waiting years since getting the 6XX for a solid upgrade that doesn't cost a lot. Meanwhile the IEMs I got at the time can be absolutely demolished for like 1/10th the price or less.
I try to avoid, ‘chasing’ the latest and greatest in this hobby. I keep coming back to the 6XX, drop aeon closed, and bathys. I have the sennhesier ie300 as well, so comfortable and just enough bass boost. I never feel wanting for anything sound quality wise. That said I would like at least one pair of high end, well made iems or phones. If anyone has recommendations, let me know 👍
I too predicted this about 8 years ago. But I am personally a little sad. I've enjoyed my journey of audio over the last 3 decades starting off with cheap headphones that came with my walkman or buy $10-$20 earbuds and learning to enjoy my music first before transitioning to mid-fi and realizing there was so much more and with money invested in Mid-fi, I got a better understanding of what my personal tastes were so that I can eventually purchase the ideal hifi product which would essentially be my end-game. but Mid-fi was my means of exploration among different products. Expensive enough to where I didn't just randomly buy stuff so I still had to think before making the decision to buy (which i won't do if everything was cheap and i would buy everything and have so many crap unused - even more so than what I have now) I'm just a regular old consumer which has taken me 25 years to figure out what my actual preference of sound is (not being influenced by others) so to me, the disappearance or lack of mid-fi may lessen one's audio journey to the ultimate sound. I kinda call this the Crown Fallacy (The Toyota Crown that is.. since during the bubble era of Japan, Toyota had this path for their customers to eventually land on purchasing a Crown and if you did get there, it was like "you made it") So you're moving away from Patreon eh? I feel like it was only a couple of years ago you started patreon and I signed up because I enjoyed some of your prior videos.
Preach it brother. The betterment of cheap audio products in the headphone, and specially in the IEM, spaces makes the price bias ever more obvious for me inside the hobby.
Back in the day, during the launch of the HD800, the hi-fi headphone world was astonished on how a headphone could cost a thousand dollars. Fast forward nowadays, with a much more heated up market, kilobuck headphones and iems are common place, and yet they add little value, aside from luxury and boutiqueness, to the already established entry and mid-fi products. The wow factors most of them add, specially in the iem segment, are EASILY attributed to changes in FR, as most of them seek a single thing to do well: think of the Subtonic Storm, what is inherently better in an iem - a single phase device by definition (unless the manufacturer screws that up) - aside from the artificial resolution added up in the higher frequencies? That also bodes true to others like the Elysian Anihnilator.
Sure, some products like the aforementioned HD800 do provide a sense of soundstage unrivaled by any other mid-fi, but I feel tha clinging to this case is making a rule out of an exception. Price, feel and luxury of construction, in the end, should not be a measure of sound quality as it often is inside the hobby.
I love that good audio is now so cheap. For the price of a Moondrop Jiu I can now get better audio reproduction quality than I had for 90% of the music that I have listened to over my lifetime. EQ is easier and easier to use. Listener recently provided settings that bring the B2D's frequency bass-to-mids in line with that of the Dusk:Default tuning, and that has brought this old(-ish) pair to a whole new performance level. Add to that how easy it is today to access huge libraries of music and we live in a golden age for music fans.
I shudder to think of the 80ies when I was using a Walkman and cheap earbuds which sounded like ass (I recently bought a pair used to check), and could only listen to music that I had bought myself or taped from the collections of friends. I had so much time back then to discover music, and so little music to actually listen to.
Ive been saying this for years!!!! Go for a headphone that you enjoy the tuning and needs for. Not just what your budget is. I made that mistake with a Focal Clear. although its good, I find using my 7hz timeless, more detailed and better tuning, and most of my random friends have said the same. (plus my focal broke on the headband like most have, its a ticking time bomb)
You have made feel prescient by naming the only three headphones I have owned since 2020. The 6xx didn’t impress until I got on OTL amp just for them.
The Ananda Nano is better tuned than the Edition XS. More sub bass, Harman-like mid-bass dip so it doesn't have excess mid bass and lower mids (straight flat line from 20Hz to 1kHz is not neutral), less of a 2K dip and overall more Harman compliant from 3 kHz to 10 kHz
I wouldn't put the Sundara in the same league with the higher end Hifiman headphones with the way the bass rolls off like that.
Cheap audio stuffs that I found good as of 2024:
IEM: Tangzu Wan'er S.G and Artti T10
Headphones: Hifi He400se
Speakers: Editor R1280dbs
Quite a few really hot takes discussed here. For the most part I agree with DMS but this video is pretty silly. To say Sundara is as resolving as the Susvara is absurd. Not everything is FR and it’s night and day with those two headphones in particular. DMS even refutes his own statements here in multiple tier videos with other reviewers. All this video accomplishes is bringing even more confusion to an already daunting and often misleading community. It’s hard to enter the market with so many different opinions and videos like this don’t make it any easier.
Change and growth with time. I think people perceive susvara’s spicy treble as detailed but when you EQ it back to normal range it doesn’t sound any more detailed than a sundara imo.
@@DMS3TV I’m not sure how you define growth but it’s very easy to perceive detail and resolution especially with experience. While I don’t discount your ability and experience as a reviewer and headphone enthusiast I just can’t imagine how you got to this conclusion. Susvara is only bested by Aperio and Bravura in resolving capabilities. A week ago you mentioned a $500 IEM matching an HE1 for technicalities and now a $200 headphone matching performance to a $6000 one? Like I said in my previous comment there’s more than what can be measured in FR and technicalities is one index that falls under that category. The 6XX and Sundara no matter what the source pairing doesn’t come close to anything above the $1000 mark.
@@kevintj604 the thing that makes $1000 headphones cost what they do rarely has anything to do with sound. Keep in mind price and sound quality have no correlation. I’m not saying expensive headphones are bad because there’s also plenty I own and love.
@@DMS3TV I think we’re just too far apart to come to any conclusion and that’s okay. My experience differs wildly with your claims. I own quite a few headphones at different price points and I’ve never heard a Summit-Fi or End Game headphone that’s come anywhere close to anything under $500. No amount of EQ is going to turn a Sundara into a Caldera, Susvara or 1266. The idea of that is pretty hilarious to me. I hope this is video doesn’t give anyone new to the community the idea that sound quality ends with $200 headphones and the Summit-Fi tier is just for rich idiots. That’s simply not the case at all.
Literally all are you saying is just linking performance to price and asserting that these end-games have better performance, without any real evidence. there will be people who prefer the sundara over the susvara, even without eq. actually, the susvara "adds" a lot of sauce to the music; it has messy group delay (another parameter often measured than frequency response, and indeed, you cannot use eq to change the group delay to whatever you want), indicating internal reflections of sound; these create sound that is not originally present in the music; it could be that these things, alongside its frequency response, contributed to your perception of detail or resolution. However, it does not strictly have "more fidelity" than the Sundara. Sundara stays truer to its input, in terms of harmonic distortion and these internal reflections.
The 6xx would be good if it had subbass but it doesn't. It doesn't like too much EQ either
DMS deciding to make a rant video to show off his new Framework laptop
It’s actually got me excited about tech again
Video coming on this by any chance? I bought one a couple of years ago and was very pleased. I upgraded to the Ryzen model and in the process "built" a Framework from scratch with my son (yes, more expensive, bought all the individual components from Framework other than my old mainboard) so he could learn and because I was tired of replacing entire Chromebooks over minor components being broken every year and a half.
@@mdfrick I’ll def make a video 😄 I love the concept
Price does not determine what is good, but it would be incredibly misleading to think that the best 1k stack could come anywhere near flagship performance. A Susvara is leaps and bounds above any sub 1k headphone, and I don’t even like Susvara. You’re not just paying for build (and again Susvara is evidence of that), you are paying for sonic performance. If you can’t hear the difference, then count yourself lucky you don’t need to spend for it.
I bought a pair of Sennheiser HD-558 for about $100 12 years ago and been wearing them almost all day every day since and they're starting to fall apart, so I'm looking for something new to buy. The almighty algorithm dumped this video in my lap, so I figured I'd might as well ask here. I don't know how you would have classed the HD-558 back then, or what might constitute a comparable set on today's market but if anyone have any suggestions on what to look for in realms of comparable price/quality I'd greatly appreciate it if someone could give me some idea of things to start looking at.
patiently waiting for the review of the new Nothing Ear...
I like strong bass. Which closed back headphone do you recommend?
Lcd2 closed back
MDR-1AM2 has really strong bass, and is my current pair of monitoring headphones
If you feel that way about the Susvara how do you feel about the Stax 007, Audeze CRBN, and Stax X9000?
Technically estats are among the cheapest drivers to manufacture (at least traditionally). The main point is that price sound quality aren’t correlated at all. IMO a stax L300 with EQ is as good as a 007/etc
@@DMS3TV you think the HE1 and L300 are about the same quality?
Whole heartedly agree. Great endgame Hi-Fi can be inexpensive. Although as a music enthusiast and gear lover, I get more out of my high end products. The pride of ownership, the build quality and the stunning performance absolutely adds to my music enjoyment. My two cents worth.
I really like that HiFi is getting cheaper which means that the barrier of entry is getting cheaper. I was mainly into IEM's but then decided to try to get into headphones but also didn't want to spend a large amount, got the Samson SR850 my first semi open backs just for $20 brand new. I think they are good as a very cheap first purchase
I recently got the SR850s too. I have never listened to high end headphones, but the words "how do they make them this cheap", "punches well above its weight" and "the ideal entry level option" are what I'm looking for, and the Samsons definitely seems to impress more knowledgeable persons than myself!
Have been a long time DMS sub since a bit before the Linus Abyss video... Now we are seeing Floatplane and a Framework laptop... HMMMMM DMS to LTT when!? @DMS !!!!!
The 6xx and the 789 changed everything for me. Any upgrade just doesn't seem worth it. I bought a used pair of D5000's and I haven't bought anything since.
for ~$70 he400se is unbeatable , probably sounds better than anything below Sundara . not sure how it would compare against 6xx but its better than 58x for me
I feel exactly the same. I'm struggling to find something I want to buy as an upgrade. I really don't know how to upgrade something in my chain around 1000 USD. New DAC? Nah. New amp? Nah. New Headphones around 1000 USD? Won't probably be better than I already have. So maybe I should just save the money and buy something even more expensive, which I really don't know if it will be worthwhile. It's getting boring.
Aune ar5000 please review them.
I think the greatest bargains are in headphones and amplifiers that have very recently been discontinued by their manufacturers. I’ve been able to buy both for sometimes as little as 25% of their original list prices. Therefore, my advice is: when a new amp or headphone is released, look at its immediate predecessor; you’ll likely be rewarded with amazing sound quality at a bargain price.
You nailed this vid DMS! Unequivocally we are right NOW in the golden age of audio - at least as far as IEMs, headphones, DACs and headphone amps are concerned. We have very high audio quality, readily attainable at super affordable prices we never dreamed would be possible less than 5 years ago. And at last an understanding - among more and more of us - that price is an exceptionally poor determinant of fidelity. Couple this with simple, accessible means of EQ and it's a great time to be in this hobby!
Please check the Myer Audio stuff out, like the Sliivo Sl41. True to what you're telling about. Great times fot this hobby. ❤
Please review the Aune a5600
Even the real mid-fi from the 90s and 2000s benefit from these lower prices. Some old headphones sound amazing with new DACs and amplifiers that can be had for less than 100€/$. The AKG K701 is a good example of what I'm talking about.
I disagree about your detail frequency response equivalence - in that case eq should be able to reveal more detail without sounding unnnatural - but its that driver capability to be able to render those audio features without distortion is what is detail- is my understanding wrong or am I missing something? Would love your two cents. Thanks!
Imo its hidden in the fine-grain of EQ. With in-ear mics and a reference of your own personal DF-HRTF the sky is the limit, but EQing to a smoothed-general target only gets so far because its not *your* ear. The headphone's design also matters. Something with low acoustic impedance will be easier to match, but I do firmly believe that a well-designed headphone could be EQ'd to be mind-blowing if you have knowledge of the end-user's DF-HRTF.
I think headphone advances have peaked. There’s only so much you can do with human aural limitations being what they are. If you have a Focal Stellia, Focal Utopia, Meze Elite, Abyss TC, Fostex th 900 mk2, Audeze 4, ZMF atrium or verite closed back, Sennheiser hd 800s, RAAL sr1a - what else do you need? Where else can music listening go! How much better will it be and, if better, is it something the human ear can truly recognize and appreciate? What is the perfect sound? That’s not to say no adjacent es are ever possible again. Just that we may have plateaued for now.
I tend to buy headphones like Koss because it's a marvel to me that they sound so good and cost very little. I keep them in my collection out of respect for their existence.
Nice framework laptop!
Somewhat related issue: Why have so few of the main stream reviewers reviewed the ZMF Caldera?
Sometimes I feel like when a reviewer doesn't want to say something bad about a product from a company they like, they will try to avoid reviewing it.
They don't want to lie, so if you don't review it then you don't have to praise it.
For example Joshua valour didn't review any zmf headphone except one old model, it's clear he doesn't like them cause I'm sure he tried them.
Great! Nice to know I'll be seeing HE1-level TWS IEMs for $250 by the time I'm too old to hear a difference... But, oh no! I also live in Australia and the hi-fi industry here loves to mark up anything not made in China 4x that of US retail. I don't see the industry here getting more affordable, but I certainly do see it getting "cheaper". Perhaps because a lot of people here still think hi-fi is those party speakers with RGB around the drivers. P.S. I think I blew a driver diaphragm in my Edition XS using a DONGLE DAC! There's light distortion in the right above about 70dB. Chi-fi strikes again!