A problem in the audio community
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2023
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1:16 its a huge problem in the keyboard community as well - I'll have people tell me that a specific keyboard is better than the prototype I'm looking at... When they have tried neither...
Howdy hey! I think it's fine to give cautious advice based on enough research, but it should always be mentioned that one has never actually tried it themselves. I always go "I have not actually used this one, so take this with a grain of salt"
Edit: For example, on the keyboard end, you can give advice about switch spring weight, tactile force and other metrics and how they might impact the experience. While on the headphone side, you can tell by the FR graphs if something will be more bright or warm leaning. But as far as impressions go, that's not something one can give without actual experience.
This is what I do when people ask me what I think of keyboards I've never tried - " I haven't tried it but, based on specific observed features I've tried in similar keyboards"@@PimpmasterMcGooby
loooolll
This reminds me of those people who go to forums or subreddits to ask "What's the best X?" without giving information of what it'll be used with, what it will be used for, budget, etc. I think these people take those bad answers and then try to apply them elsewhere without having any first hand experience. If Project Farm taught me anything, it's that 'the best X' is subjective and depends on usage/priorities.
Not only that, but preference plays a huge role. You can tell someone that Cherry MX blue switches will give the best feedback possible, but it won’t matter if it’ll piss off your spouse. Most people will just end up returning something with browns for the same reasons. They think they want what other people tell them is best until they are the ones who have to use them.
Are you talking about Sharur? He certainly fits the description!
The only thing that guy has actually used is a pair of airpods 😂
Lmao, DMS is putting Sharur on blast without even naming him. About time. Thanks for this video, it needed to be made
Sharur is the saltiest weirdo on audio YT for absolutely no reason
guy needs to touch grass
@@TR-qf2gt Wait, are you saying Sharur isn't playing a character? I stumbled upon his videos and I thought there was no way he was real with how over the top back and forth he is on everything, so either a character or someone with some serious problems in need of professional help.
He's basically banned from every forum.
Dude has mental problems.@@HeavenlyArmed
@@HeavenlyArmedcharacter or not, he's spreading misinformation
Yeah this is very common. Im definitely guilty of it as well. I think with something like audio, or other hobbies which are expensive to get a wide range of experience, we tend to look for shortcuts, and seek out other reviewers and even start trying to dive into understanding the more technical aspects as a way to compensate for not having tried as many things as you'd like. With this, it's easy to start making generalizations about things.
I have been, and still am of the opinion that FR is the best representation we have of how a headphone may sound (on that rig), but i am also a strong believer that our senses are easily influenced by comfort, ambiend noise, build, room in the cup, cost, and even expectation and bias. I think we tend overestimate the accuracy of our senses.
Now this could also be an argument for why you'd focus so much on FR. It's the direct data on what a headphone sounds like, but i think most of us (myself included) have a lot of trouble translating that into how something sounds beyond general tonality and sometimes there's too much focus on individual frequencies, and not considering how one range may affect another range in the FR, and your perception. It's easy to affect your bias when looking at FR graphs, and interpreting them based on your understanding at that time (which is always evolving)
All in all, we have a great community, and lots of data points now, but there's still something to be said about trying a particular device in person that doesnt always translate from data alone
I actually get more value out of Sharur than I do from Zeos, even though the latter actually listens to the stuff (or seems to)
One of the most valuable reviewer videos to me was the auto EQ video by crinacle. It helped me understand my preference more as well as the graph data plus reviewers preferences as well
I mean most people don't have many headphones to try out to begin with
I'd bet my life that sound quality is the main thing. Don't get fooled by these pseudosciences and their claims. The nonsense that these zombies at Audio Science Review fall for because some study proved it, is tragic. Just use your ears, guys. Don't wait to get old to see through the nonsense.
Lol. Zeros is effortlessly hilarious but has zero sense of relative sound quality. He even claimed a while ago that he couldn't hear the difference between DACs. What!?
I'm glad to see someone bring this up in conversation as there are a lot of people who don't know that these keyboard warriors have polluted the waters for years.
The professional audio reviewers at stereo magazines have polluted it for years as well. The amount of crap they've raved about until the advertising dried up is ridiculous.
Remember the Audioquest Nighthawk (Audioquest Dark Mud, more like).
I remember one review in Stereophile of an integrated tube amp by Rogue Audio where one of the channels only had half volume. It got a rave review based on what it probably sounded like If it worked. Why they wouldn't have sorted the problem before doing the review is beyond me.
My biggest complaint with audio magazines is the total lack of technical understanding of what they're reviewing. They rave about the CNC'd from aerospace aluminum (there is no such thing) chassis while talking mumbo jumbo about how it works.
I know a service tech. for Audio Note UK and was talking to him about what I'd learned from a review linked at their website. He says that's not true. The company tells the reviewer what's going on yet they still manage to screw it up. So even if the company is open and honest, we're still often reading nonsense.
I think this particular case had to do with their new line of AES/EBU interconnect - Pallas II, and the one I wanted was the Black. Top of the line, expensive beyond belief. Everything I thought was true wasn't. It was audio lore. He heard from a friend who'd heard these and whose ears he trusted. The guy said they made so much of a difference it made no sense. The dealer said hold off until I hear them myself. It's technically impossible for a digital interconnect to make that much difference. Analog makes major difference so spend there. Digital less so and Ethernet even less because it's packeted digital. That ethernet makes any difference at all makes no sense, but it does. Haven't heard back about this so this story has no ending. Lol. But the review said the same thing. The Black Pallas II was the shit, or whatever young people say today. Miles better than the next one down in that lineup.
Great video. I encounter this on HeadFi at least a couple times a day. I personally don’t share my opinion with a product unless it’s been in my home and I’ve owned it. I can share my experience on a first impression product that didn’t appeal to me in the store but like most things it takes time to hear subtleties.
You should see that dork Sharur who says the HE1 is trash just by reading the graph and not listnening to them. Probably a troll but all his reviews are negative pretty much.
Thank You! It's about time someone said this.
I work in a very small niche building systems for friends and friends of friends. When I get equipment in, I tear it down, examine it every way I can, run a bevy of tests on it and sometimes even do modifications (especially on speakers). In the few online reviews I've written I will report my findings honestly and fully.
Usually I find myself posting about major issues, in a sea of "Oh this is so wonderful" and I have to ask myself how dozens, even hundreds, of people can review the same product and not find the issues I've identified.
Quick example: I recently discovered a standby problem in a popular and frequently reviewed mini-amplifier. You could flip the front panel switch to the "off" position but the amp would keep right on playing. So now I've got to ask... how did so many people miss this??
The only answer I can come up with is that they've never really put the thing through it's paces, possibly never even turned it on.
OH GOD THIS IS SO TRUEEEEEE, people give recommendation when they dont even own the products!!! like wtf
I have to say, this is ALSO an Issue on the mouse review scene. Thank god there are great content creators that steer away from speaking of equipment they've never tried, but on the community? Gosh damn, Reddit is a great example. I think someone can speak on behalf of other person's experience - i.e. "I've heard that DMS said thath the HD560s is a dope neutral headphone!" -, but people seem to forget about references.
"but until you look like this (bnk 5128), there is more to a headphone that matters than frequency response"
Sharur: *turns into a headphone measuring rig*
He reviews everything by using his Variations with EQ, and says it's accurate... so yeah, he's crazy.
@@ROCKSTAR3291 because you don't need anything except the Variations, it's the perfect IEM. Variations just overtook the U12T, Anole VX, Sony IER-M9, Monarch, Tia Trio, VE Erlkonig, Empire Ears Odin on Crin's list, all former S tier IEMs, next revision it's gunning for the top spot. Maybe Sharur is onto something.
And as we're doing this- have you personally heard the Variations?
@@blorg8206 Sharur EQs his Variations to sound like other IEMs that he wants to review, yeah, he's definitely onto something, maybe drugs lol.
@@blorg8206 Have you personally listened to the U12T, VX, M9, Monarch, Trio, Odin, Evo etc…? Quit riding Crin, he’s not the only reviewer
I love it! haha thanks for bringing this up. Would love to hear more of such stuff that the community does, which are bad.
I'm young in this hobby. say, 2 and a half years. and at this stage, I've encountered the kind of people you mentioned in your video. all knowing, time travelers, and can make a full review just by looking at the graph. I got nothing against graphs, and as a matter of fact, I'm trying to dive deeper into it. In my reviews, when somebody ask how this gear (the gear I reviewed) compared to this gear (a gear I have not heard or auditioned), then I just say I can't conclude on that. thanks for the vid. keep them coming.
As with all hobbies, it’s always nice to try before you buy and keep an open mind. Don’t forget music is what it all about and music is very very hard to bottle and experience to everyone’s pleasure.
This. this is literally the reason why my collection has gone from 2 to 50 headphones in a little over a year. I needed to figure out what headphones sounded like compared to others. I wanted to give people a recommendation based on experience, not a recommendation based on speculation
lol, isn't 50 headphones a little too much? That's borderline hoarding to me.
I put a limit of 12 on myself to avoid this problem.
I can definitely back up the "needs more than a day of testing" argument. I was trying three NC earbuds at once, and at first I wanted to go with one but in the end I actually went for another. Even though I was so confident based on reviews and my own day 1 listening that I was going to pick the bud I did not end up going with after about a week and a half of real world use.
Yeah it's for sure real. 99% of experience isn't conscious. It takes a long time for little things to soak in and become aware of them. Sometimes, you become aware right away and think you hate it, but later you realize it's awesome and you love it. Kinda like how you hated onions when you were a kid.
This is why I trust DMS to review audio products.
Thank you for this!!
To be fair to the guy in the first example, he said the OPPO is better than the PS1, and he listed its features. It doesn't mean he was saying the quality is better, only that it is a better product because it does more. You don't need to try the PS1 as a CD player to know it doesn't have HDMI.
You make so many good points, and I'm guilty of it. I've never heard a McIntosh amp, but I assume it''s better even though I haven't ever heard one
Totally agree with this. Just look at moondrops IEMs. Some of them have almost identical tuning on a graph. They look the same but I have experienced this myself. They absolutely do not sound the same.
This sounds exactly like a videographer community. it's probably something called Specsmanship-cunningham problem
I feel this so much 💀. At least I try to make it clear what opinions are my own vs. other's.
We've all done it and this is a great post . You are spot on DMS
This is a video that needed to be done because it happens in our community much too often. Peoples need to belong and give information on things that they have no experience on has become overwhelming since the beginning of social media. It gives them a voice, an unqualified one, but a voice nevertheless. Audio need not be expensive to be enjoyed, but it shouldn’t be criticized if someone else chooses to make it expensive.
In the high-end audio space be it headphones or other equipment, you will get people calling out people for being audiophiles or fools due to what they spent by saying you could have saved money on headphones, cables, CD players, turntables, amps, pre amps and phono preamps by spending less, having never tested said items, because they can’t afford an item and don’t see why anyone else should either.
They will say things like it makes them feel bad or others feel bad, calling you a audiophile snob when most of the times the people spending what ever they have spent have no idea that the person, who can’t afford something even exist. These consumers are just working hard and just living their lives trying to buy what is best in their eyes.
This causes division in our industry between low, middle and high-end buyers. Sure there are snobs that come out and tell you such, but how can anybody compete with the way someone’s purchasing habits makes you feel because you can’t afford it. We should look at reviews as a starting point, do the research, not necessarily comment strongly on what we don’t know, but open our minds to what we can learn.
Could not agree more. I see so much nerd rage directed at people with differing opinions in the audio community it makes me sad. We’re all nerds that enjoy the same hobby, and even reviewers I don’t agree with seem like great dudes, so why should I be mad they have a different opinion?
Disagreement and "mad" are a fine line. Unfortunately for some, expressing any form of dissatisfaction of a review is being a hater.
It would be nice to have a place where I live to actually try a product, audition it if you will, to get an idea of how it works/sounds like, etc. But those places are few and far between these days. Which is why reviewers like you help in figuring out what we may like. But then we have the "fan boys" that get in there and do things like this, dog out a product because it's not part of their world. I'm not saying it's all them doing this, but they seem to have a big enough part in it and will start some stuff to get their two cents in. And sometimes not in a nice way. And it's not just the audio community, it's tech in general. I think the cell phone side is even worse. Either it's all Apple all day or all Android all day and they don't want to budge in their beliefs. Those type of people give a community a bad reputation, even a toxic reputation and it's bad for everyone.
A guy in my facebook group said the hd600s is super hard to drive and you need some $500 amps just to get it loud. I then asked him does he even have the hd600 before and dude said "nah" lmao.
The HD600 "scales", $500 amp would be nowhere near enough for it, you want to spend thousands on it before it reveals its true self. It's best with pre-WW2 tubes, anything after that was contaminated with background nuclear radiation and you'll get subtle click click click (like a Geiger counter)
@@blorg8206I sincerely hope you're joking. I run my HD600's out of my phone most of the time, with it's ESS ES9218P DAC. I've run it balanced, on nicer things, and while you might get a tiny bit more out of it, it's still negligible compared to how good a headphone it is out of anything compared to all the wonky tuned stuff out there. Sure, the worst quality devices might not drive it loud enough for playing a very dynamic recording like classical or maybe pink floyd, but for most music is fine and loud enough. Things aren't as hard to drive as you think. Sure there's some extra damping factor here or slightly different response with the driver inductance curve at varying output impedances, but it's negligible at best.
that is just how people are, and this goes across the board in any hobby just like dms said. It's part of being more mature/adapt in a hobby, being able to separate the actual legitimate feedbacks from the noise. People will say something sucks for a myriad of reasons. Most of it is copium, some of it is blind trust in their reviewer of choice, add in splashes of ignorance and arrogance, and you basically got the "noise" part of any community. That's just how it is, most of the time it takes people that have went through the whole spectrum of quality of headphones, or a big part of it, or really nailing down to what they like and their setup to reflect that sound to completely get out of it. When your setup is kinda set, and your preference is nailed down, you stop caring what people say.
And Sharur’s counter video dropping in 3…2…
Man’s made a channel with 2 IEMs and crinacles graphs. 😂😂😂
I think subjectivity and personal preference are massive factors personally. It's entirely possible that someone could listen extensively to a particular headphone and decide it's not for them for numerous reasons. The only thing you can say about that ultimately is that this particular headphone isn't good for that particular person. Granted, it could be a pretty crappy product but it could also just not be to someone else's taste.
Got to admit, I've been guilty of mlt giving the best advice but I do my best to be as clear and objective nowadays. I think it's really important that we all strive towards being like this so that we can all make informed decisions when exploring these sorts of hobbies.
See this in the comment section everyday and it annoys the shit out of me! Glad you did a video on this
Good point!
I never actually watched Resolve Reviews, but they’re so much better!
We totally agree!
I always get multiple viewpoints from different reviewers that I have an affinity to, friends/family whose opinions I trust or personal experience. I like to why something is good or bad and if the thing in question is yet to be released or the reviewer doesn't have any DIRECT experience of it then I look for someone who has.
Love this video. A part two in the future would be great as well
I feel like theres a lot of snobbery as well in the community and dismissiveness
Less than 30 minutes ago i was told 'moondrop kato is outdated shit. Get dunu kima' but that person has no idea why i was considering the kato 😅
Otherwise known as the Sharur grift.
Totally agree. You shouldn't put your assumption beyond actual product. You can be skeptical a bit but don't just totally cancel it out. Be ashamed of yourself on recommending or denying something u not even test or read about it yet
Yep, experience certainly counts. I still use an old HTC 10 mobile phone I re-bought, as my personal mp3 player, there’s just something about the sound I prefer. It’s your personal preference that counts, not a spec sheet. Great video👍🏻
You could do so much better than mp3 player off an old phone, please believe me.
@@PartyMusic775 Have you heard it & do you know the listening circumstances? That's the whole point of the video.
@@PartyMusic775see that was the point of the video. You have no idea how good that HTC10 might sound in combination with the gear he is using. It might be the most engaging, musical and organic sounding combination known to man and you brush it off. Some people love music. Some love gear.
This makes so much sense and that is why no one will pay heed to it. When I start my reviews, they will be limited to what I’ve actually tried. If I’m going to “compare” it to something I haven’t, I will state that as well as giving credit to whichever reviewer has actually tried and had something to say about the “comp”. There’s way too many headphones and IEMs out there and not nearly enough time or money to spend on more than a fraction of what is available. That’s why I rely on other people when making purchasing decisions. So to make a long comment even longer, if you’re one of the “offenders” please stop. You’re not helping anyone. Thanks for sharing this DMS. All I can hope is that people will listen. Peace
some random guy in the comments section or forum threads or social media posting their hot takes on why something sucks doesn't qualify as a review, it's more of just a personal opinion and yes very often you can't even verify how valid it is, because they don't back it up with evidence. Honestly even if a person has TRIED something, they should still be subject to scrutiny to see if their review approach is flawed or whether there's personal bias, etc. This is why cross-referencing multiple reviews of the same thing is often recommended, so that you don't end up with only 1 person's take.
The whole 'dont believe everything you read on the internet' advice is more relevant than ever these days
Like the guy who EQ his Variations to match whatever he's reviewing, but never had any of the sets in hand to judge. But say they are all Absolute Trash?🤣
Besides his own precious Variations of course.
Who says there's no such thing as Technical Performance. The FR graph conquers all. Bwahahaha
Why can't he just EQ something like the Aria to sound like Variations lol ? such a dork
Sharur is a flowerpot short of being considered a vegetable, the dude is full of himself and dumb as rocks
I have an old Sony and Panasonic portable players. The sound great!
Excellent video. I see people comparing gear they haven't tried so frequently and casually all the time, they've watched a video or have a trusted friend who tried it with identical ears. It can be hard to tell if someone has even tried it, unless they specifically say or or we ask.
There's nothing wrong with saying, "My buddy tried these headphones years ago in a noisy room at CanJam with a song he didn't like, through a chain he'll never be able to afford and said they sounded good, he recommends them"
Not to discount what your saying. Your comment just reminded me that I find it incredibly difficult to deal with the few experts I trust when they don't agree. Also, some information comes down the grape vine and gains credibility.
One guy I know has heard it all and says Pass Labs is the only acceptable solid state gear (and he's a registered service technician for all the mega expensive brands so he's not technically clueless). And he hates the Miyajima OTL. He thinks Lamm is lame though I'd heard they were top notch, just like the Miyajima. His preamp is worth a cheap Ferrari. He listens to Audio Note Level 5 everyday.
Another guy I trust thinks Pass Labs is too smooth and he loves Spectral or Nagra or YBA.
Both of those guys are Audio Note UK fanatics who both despise the sound of dCS.
The weird thing is they describe the sound of things and it's spot on. But there are some things where their opinion is wildly different than my experience.
The one guy is Larry at Real Hifi Help. He thinks the 1266 sounds awesome. I buy them brand new from the factory and there's no midrange. And the highs are near pure distortion. Just like Audio Science Review measured. They sound exactly like those measurements indicate. Larry asks what amp am I using. I'm using the Audio Note Meishu 300B single ended with the new Western Electric 300Bs, the exact same amp Larry was using. I've emailed people in the industry over parts or whatever I wanted to buy and mentioned how bad these sound. They all say the same thing. They sound too bad to be saved by a miracle amp. Sell them.
But why the pin point accuracy judging most gear but getting it wrong on a few things? And the 1266 is not debatable. They could be used to remove paint. No exaggeration. Designed by a team of deaf people. I've never been more certain of anything in my life. If they were the only thing I'd heard sound out of in my life I'd think the same thing. No comparison needed.
But how is this possible? Anyway, Real Hifi Help is a channel you guys need to listen to. Watch all the videos. He'll teach you things you'll never learn from people in the industry. Real World Audio channel comes second.
Hear, hear.
Literally.
I've been into audio starting with the pc38x off the recommendations of this and other channels. Did the gamut of reddit communities and Facebook and so on. It started out positive but got gradually negative to the point I don't ask questions more or less. Just kinda full send on stuff I want and just enjoy it alone.
thank you
Just a comment to help you out because you deserve it !
The commenting without testing or experiencing a product is a common thing in all discords, chats, forums etc ….. and I only comment on a product etc that I’ve personally used and experienced and that’s it. I noticed some UA-cam / Kick channels I watch are run like this (comment only on what you’ve tried yourself) and I found more valuable information this was without the need to filter out all the nonsense and misinformation 🥰👍😇🥳
Great video DMS!
Please make a video for the best speakers for movies. Everyone seems to make music centric speaker reviews.
"I'm a certified Harman trained listener"
😂
he's a weirdo
lol no one gives a sh**
As an electrical engineer the other thing I see happen a lot is people misappropriating facts based on lose understanding or outright wrong information. This happens a lot with my area of expertise (batteries and power conversion), but I also enjoy learning about audio.
The other day someone asked why their 16 ohm planar IEM sounded terrible on an audio interface that had a 50 ohm headphone jack. People were debating how planar's have a flat impedance and therefore aren't impacted by higher output impedance. Sure, their frequency response will be unaffected, but as DMS pointed out there is more to how something sounds than frequency response. Distortion and damping play into the sound characteristics as well.
It comes up often when the 1/8th rule is mentioned. Someone always tries to argue impedance matching will provide the best power transfer as if that's what is making the headphones sound bad... And yet all the audio professionals are trying to make sure the headphone impedance is at least 8x larger than the output impedance of the jack.
Or how somehow pure silver cables that are 0.01 ohms less than copper cables will make speakers sound better than the normal copper cables when an output impedance change of 10 ohms for IEMs barely gives a 3db boost to sub bass without audibly impacting the other frequency ranges. And output impedance change of 10 ohms will make almost no difference at all on higher impedance headphones.
But... But... The cable capacitance! And even the inductance!
Lol I'm not quite an EE yet (working on it), but the amount of trash in the hobby is incredible. I'm surprised no one looked up the full transmission line theory and tried convincing people that the conductance of the insulator in the connectors of their amplifiers is reducing clarity. Or that the thermal EMF on the solder of the opamps is raising the noise floor of their system.
@@JHVOGamers Don’t forget about the skin effect and how high frequencies only travel on the surface of the wire. So, 100 stands of silver wire are going to allow a lot more high frequency energy transfer than the 7 stand copper wire we’re using! Don’t they care about our headphones sounding more spacious and airy?!? Lol.
This is why I only use super conductors in my audio chain. The liquid nitrogen cost is pretty high, and the constant frostbite is annoying, but definitely worth it for the improved sound quality.
Silver sounds so much better than copper that the difference in conductivity could never explain it. They've studied electromagnetism for 200 years and still don't know how electricity works. Don't start with me. I've got references up the ying-yang. Audio Note UK does it right because they're lead by sound quality. They understand that a lot of things are unknown and always will be. I notice in audio that people say things like "I wonder what an engineer would say about this." Theoretical physicists don't know how this works and they're 1000 times smarter than an engineer. There are mysteries. If we could all accept this we'd likely make more progress.
Try to find out what causes skin effect. They don't know. I found four reasonable answers but they all have major problems.
Try to find out how free electrons flow in a metallic conductor. That's laughable. They know so little about that you wouldn't believe it. Thank God electromagnetic waves travel outside the conductor or we'd be 1000 times more lost. The physics is mostly hoping and guessing.
Did you know that you have to resort to Quantum Electrodynamics to figure out the inductance of a wire? Maxwell's equations assume a conductor that is infinitely small. A guy named Robert Distinti got hung up on this, wrote his masters thesis on it (apparently his advisors did no homework at all - thanks guys) and has dedicated his life to proving physics is wrong. And all over a misunderstanding by Distinti and his faction and a science establishment hooked on pretending their theories are perfect. Ever heard that Maxwell's equations have worked perfectly everytime they've been tested? Lol. That's what physicists do all day. Write papers explaining how some fundamental aspect of the accepted theory has to be wrong and how it might get fixed. But they don't tell us that. Or the engineers, who mostly fall for the line that the theory is perfect.
We'd be so much better off not pretending to have near perfect understanding.
great take!
Having only seen the thumbnail for this video, I completely agree with what you're saying... :-P
Great video, D
Okay, good talk. 😎👍
I am quite guilty of this. Although I can agree that this is a massive problem in many communities. The only times I think you can trust someone to give you advice is if they've had experience with it and/or done heavy amounts of research into it (including reviews/talking to people that have had experiences with said thing). And even after that, I'd do my own research into it myself.
I don't think it's a good idea to blind buy or blindly trust anyone on the internet.
I love this video so much and I agree. I haven't seen it yet
Hi DMS, just to add on the point about HFM closed backs, you should probably give the Audivina a try. I own it and absolutely love it to death. A much better implementation of a closed back than the Sundara (tried that too, big disappoint)
I was always recommending cheapo earbuds as gaming headphones in tech forums and was feeling bad about it because I've never tried one.
But after defiling my ears with some razer and logitech headsets I'm more confident about it. :D.
I still recommend some of them though, like steelseries arctis models. Because they are wireless and closest good sounding wireless headset is Audeze maxwell (gosh I have to test that one as well)
After some expensive stuff everything sounds wonderfully, no matter the price, definitely can enjoy any type of gear without craving for something new. (switching from 5$ to 2000$ really doesnt make sense after you really start listen to music) every gear will represent some kind of unique mastering, you ll get used to it
This issue runs through audio spaces so much that I don't talk to audio people online at all anymore. I don't talk to producers or people who are just SUPER into audio unless I've seen that they're normal about it
It generates noise, misinformation and ridiculous arguing.
Bloody annoying,
Especially when they argue with you when you have the fricking product on your desk.. they clearly are just looking at numbers parroting other peoples words and they’ve never gone near it
Ugggg
that's why i love your channel man ! you know how to describe what you hear
@@ROCKSTAR3291 🐅❤️
Interesting wrapper for argument from authority. I'm of the opinion that until we see a set of well done measurements, we don't know how a device sounds. I don't like feeding myself with various biases that sighted listening comes with and then act that I can evaluate the *sound* of a device, implying I could magically ignore all those biases
This trend in most powerful in the US. Marketing and ads run over facts
Bull's-eye, DMS. Nailed it. Nobody should offer an opinion about an item they haven't tried.
If you bought it then you have purchase bias. If you demo'd it, you can also be biased in the opposite way. Your opinion is always tainted, so long as the FR is close to something you already know, then you can make that call. If its a souce device, then you need to base it on what you believe because placebo is always a factor no matter what you do, and can be aggravated by you owning it.
@@enjoshi-godrez8775 Remind me not to read any reviews by you. There is ZERO substitute for actually using a product for an extended period of time. You have no credibility if you review without using the product. None. Frequency response graphs are just a guidepost. They are not a substitute for your ears and brain.
I notice the same thing with Guitars and Guitar Gear. Most of those making negative comments are talking out of their Ass
1:16 this giving me a vibe of ios vs android community that trashing the other side while not actually tried it, the only people that said moderately fair comparison between both is the one that actually own and tried it
Not to mention that comparing headphones in the kilobuck+ tier is practically splitting hairs and more about personal preference, whether that be the sound signature, comfort or just aesthetics. Not every device needs to be all things to everyone to be great.
How many headphones in the kilobuck+ tier have you A/B'd directly together? 😉
@@PartyMusic775 I have 4 at my desk and have been to CanJam to do just that. Granted that environment isn't conducive to critical listening.
Agreed ask lots of questions on Reddit I had lots of comments. When I ask do you own them or tried them? They said no. Which I find it weird. I did mention in my post about exp with the headphone.
The whiskey community suffers from the same problem. You hear/read a lot "that whiskey is horrible" when you ask they say no I haven't...
Frequency response is just the name of the flavor on the ice cream shop board, It lets me know if I'll even have a chance of enjoying it and it's often more nuanced than just that sometimes weird things happen with headphones, obviously people like different flavors, but I don't want Rum Raisin, I've tried enough ice cream to know that even if it's the best I won't like it.
Currently i have 40+ headphones ( price range 300-4000$/€ ) and i had in last 20 years a ton of questions to recommend something ( or avoid ). In 99% of the cases if question came from people i know i would ask them to come by and try everything or just a few if they already have allocated budget. I just can not recommend something what i have never tried with my personal setups. To try something in store and at home it is just not the same at all.
It is if you have enough experience. I know you're going to say "well I have 20 years on you whippersnappers" but you also like warm, dark, vailed, and incoherent sound signitures like on old audezes, or bright, thin and stringent like most akgs and the like. Once you've used autoeq for long enough to hear most of the well balanced house curves out there, you have a very educated opinion on what a neutral like sound signiture is. Its a small band, but its the only one that matters, because any extreme colouration like a lcd2 causes to much masking to be taken seriously. If you work within that range, and reject the rest, you can understand a sound signiture in a single song.
@@enjoshi-godrez8775 Everybody has different interaction with headphones...or almost everything in general ( different head shape, ear shape , clamp sensitivity , does person wear glasses, ear lobe sensitivity , sound coloration sensitivity ...thousand reasons..) . I had quite a few people not liking the the looks ( despite of sounding good to them) so everything is subjective. I can make a suggestion in some price point and for typical genre of music but i don`t like to do that no matter how well i know something. If person can not come and try then i can point in some direction. Either way average person or someone who is only starting with headphone madness quite often might choose comfort, looks or something else prior to SQ.
AHH...the Audio Science Review syndrome.
I am sick of people always trying to one-up each other too
Fighting over margins of .01% that 99% of the people who listen can’t hear. Get a good set of cans or speakers that you like and buy what you can afford for the rest of the chain. Anything above that is oneupmanship and a waste of money. Love your content DMS. Cheers!
I think the majority of this issue stems from a fear of being "wrong." As in, the expensive device you bought is surely the best, because it's the one you bought, and if you bought one that isn't the best in it's price range, what does that say about your purchase? People are very quick to dismiss new or alternative products because they don't want to believe that what they invested could have been better spent on something else.
That's my two cents anyhow.
Have you tried the Audeze mm-500 yet? I remember you mentioning a review a while back. I absolutely love mine but I haven’t used a lot of headphones so don’t have much of a comparison. I would love to hear what someone with more experience like yourself thought.
Hi if you have a iPhone dongle can you get a good sound using headphones or won’t it be strong enough to run them can you recommend a good set up with iPhone and headphones
It ads to the confusion and lack of credibility.
Fair enough but that's also exactly what reviewers are for... I often make deductions (and recommendations to others) based on reviewers' opinions. If in general, reviewers agree that product A is better (or better value) than product B, and then product C comes out and it's generally agreed it's equal to or worse than product B, I don't need to firsthand hear product B and C to point another person towards product A.. or at least the reviews of product A
Otherwise we would all be reviewers with youtube channels lol. And let's be real, big channels especially don't have time to answer each viewer, so the community heavily relies on help from non-reviewer peers
So personally, I think offering that kind of opinion is very acceptable as long as 1) evidence is provided and 2) the opinion giver is honest about it being secondhand info
a lot of people have no way to try the products before ordering them, they should judge well before purchase.
fr graph and spec sheet is an easy test that filters out bad or unsuitable products. there is no issue here.
I'm in a tough spot, because I sell audio gear. I use the spec sheets extensively when I'm trying to help someone with something I haven't heard (because of course I haven't heard all 10,000 products we sell), but I try to always be honest about how their mileage may vary. There are so many subjective opinions out there that I feel like there aren't really wrong or right answers in the space outside of compatibility questions or the accuracy of reported specs. It is so much easier to sell the stuff I've gotten to listen to, though. I definitely preferentially sell what I'm more familiar with when I can. It feels more honest to me, but it isn't always an option.
Yea, this problem also cuts both ways.
I see this very often on reddit. The best example would be the HD 560 S. SOOOO many people recommend them for EVERYTHING, especially when the word "gaming" is somewhere near the post.
People didn't even try the 560 s and sell them as the holy grail, while having no idea how they actually sound.
I Dont think its a problem to recommend audio gear to people but it should be a "hey take a look at this, maybe it fits your bill, tho i haven't tried it yet" instead of the "this and that, its better than product B"
Or techchannels recommending anc headphones and it’s just this years Sony or Bose release. The fanbase takes them by their word and treats them like the 2nd coming of Christ and every single other anc headphone is shit to them. Did they try the others?
Have you tried to use Edifier Neo Buds Pro?:)
Can't speak for others, but to stay in the know on products I'll watch reviewers and read review articles. But for evaluation, I try to find owner opinions. It's no disrespect to YT reviewers or Reddit engineers or Discord mercenaries, but I find the best perspectives on use case and value come from people who decided to hold on to the gear they buy and who over time (post-hype) understand the strengths and weaknesses of what they use. That's not to say someone can't have an accurate and non-influenced opinion of a product after a week with it, just that I think you get a clearer picture of why you'd want to buy or avoid something from folks that have lived with it for awhile.
Witch model has the dac chip? even the PS One? the slim version?
I can say without trying it: that modifyed PS1 is sick, I love it
Bro.. could you review top portable Bluetooth speakers? I’ve been researching on good ones and noticed you haven’t reviewed much.
They all terrible. He likes high fidelity audio.
Unfortunately it os a problem reaching far beyond this community. Ive seen people making trash reviews of restaurants that aren't even open yet too
Seems like a problem in any community I am a part of... could it just be humans in general? I really don't know... but it's great that you bring it up.
Good vidya mate
inb4 the gate-keeping allegations start flying towards DMS
This is an ultra-common thing, alot of it is people trying to justify there purchasing choice by calling everything else bad and getting other people to buy what they bought. Because if other people bought it they feel better about what they bought. I see this alot even from people askling what to buy, they have already made up there mind what they want but now they want someone else to tell them there correct.
Some of it is also lack of experience, anyone can learn to look at a graph and call anything that deviates from a target bad, but not every one has the eperince to heard the differnces (yet, in time i do belive most people if they try, can train there ears).
I also couldn't agree more on spending more time on things, I try to spend a few weeks using something before I post a review.
Welcome to the internet.
Sorry for the off topic question, but is this outro song somewhere up in full?
I think at least some of this comes from brand loyalty and anti brand bias. People love brand x and hate brand y so they jump onto any discussion and share their brand biases with anyone that will listen.
Brand loyalty can also be thought of as brand-fear too. With countless products out there to gamble on blindly, it makes sense that after people found a good brand, they lean into it trusting it more. Or if they had a bad experience, to steer away from it. Obviously these generalisations can go wrong and make people miss out on a new product or select something far more mediocre in bang for buck. That's why we also have reviewers and try to get second opinions from multiple reviewers.