What I love so much about Baby Reindeer is that it shows SO clearly just how complicated these kinds of situations can be and how sexual assault, trauma, C-PTSD, and violence isnt so cut and dry. There is no such things as a perfect victim and no one involved in the story is either all good or all bad. Relationships between humans are messy and complicated, and everything holds nuance and ambiguity, and that is something that is SO important to start talking about. I felt absolutely everything throughout watching the show; from disgust to pity to compassion to anger to immense sadness. Richard Gadd did an absolutely tremendous job at portraying the complexities of human nature and i take my hat off to him, I really do.
I know it may feel unsettling to feel like you are talking badly of their mental issues, but we, as a society have to bring these behaviors out into the public sphere to talk about them. To make narcissism known. I’m divorcing my nex after 25 years. I didn’t even know what the word narcissism really meant until a few years ago (after his 4th affair and threats to kill himself if I even mentioned it). It would have saved me many years of f#$cling misery. You are doing an important public service. Thank you. I commend you for not talking about the real woman.
This. As far as I'm concerned, we should be taught in school how to spot a cluster B disorder. I ended up stalked by my narcissistic ex and it nearly broke me.
The problem isn’t anyone specific diagnostic profile or cluster. When people are ‘off’ other people usually reject them and ask them to ‘see a counselor’-Dismissively and mockingly often enough. That person might just be a terrible person with no diagnosis. I’m speaking as someone who can legally diagnose. The problem as I see it is that most of us feel lost, isolated, confused and feel desperately lonely. All of that put upon someone who has a trauma-heavy history? All of that put upon someone with a genetic predisposition for xyz..They aren’t going to do as well. I see you choosing someone repeatedly who was hurtful as not optimal functioning. Are you just as guilty? Perhaps. That seems sick too-doesn’t it?
Well said and agreed. I was left stunned with neither sympathy nor empathy, and unusually for me, with no discernible opinion at all, except for disgust. But, I think you are spot on about the interpretation. It is a modern dystopian loneliness we all are desperate to avoid while maintaining boundaries with our dearest who get too nearest. A tough balance all round.
I feel that unless you’ve been abused in particular ways, you only see a crazy stalker lady. The show portrayed grooming perfectly. It portrayed being drawn to a familiar brokenness in another person perfectly. It portrayed seeking acknowledgement and attention from your abuser perfectly. He WAS a baby reindeer. He was the molested child that is helped and harmed by the same person and so his internal safety system is completely haywire.
I think the show is about the effect of trauma, in particular of male on male rape. Richard Gadd says something along the lines that when you’re damaged through trauma, you attract abusers. This is correct. He recognizes his role in the stalking dynamic.
The worst part is, he kept going back for it.. back to the guy who was SA'ing him, and the woman he claimed he wanted to leave him alone. He gave mixed messages because he knew both situations were wrong, but he had something to benefit from them.
Trauma bonding from sexual grooming is so complex that even the experts can’t completely understand it. Richard has the best explanation about this human experience 👏👏👏
"You only have a home when you leave, people miss you." When I leave, people say they miss me, because they are sad they cant control me anymore. I belive we are in a transitional phase. We left people who did not like us and yet not found those who do.
True for me too. I left home where I was not allowed to advocate for myself or to have a subjective experience of her, ie, no feedback, no reciprocal exchange of information, no visible emotional reaction to being hurt..... so I met a man who was "hurt" whenever I advocated for myself, got defensive and angry when I tried to beard. I put myself through this he'll again. Free now. But my family hates me my x hates me. I feel like s lot of people use me as their spittoon.
Thank you for saying it was icky watching. I couldn't get through it, so much mental unwellness in the characters yet most people seem to focus solely on the woman stalker character.
I just finished watching 'Baby Reindeer'. I found it to be exceptional. I know it is disturbing, but I also found it comforting. We need to face the reality of abuse, neglect, rape and the impact it has on us all. I could relate to both of the main characters, and hope they both can heal.
Richard, I have been watching you for years. I am amazed of the vulnerability and empathy you have developed recently. Truly remarkable. It shows the inner work you have been doing.
You summed that up perfectly. I felt a lot of compassion for both of the characters. I do think the absolute worst thing his character did was to pull her back in. That kind of delusion can live for years on mere crumbs. The sexual assault disturbed the hell out of me. It is no wonder that kind of boundary break can sometimes never heal. It also makes me wonder why on earth I sometimes watch things that depress me for weeks. How stupid is that. Good luck with your seminar. I know it will be great!
I think everyone who has studied these disorders from sources like yourself can see that Gadd himself has a SHIT TON of PTSD and is arguably BPD himself. There is so much cluster B between them and it's sad.
Love your work and research and experience. It helped me rationalise my own existence again during and after a very scary, toxic and dangerous relationship
Impressive that you were able to watch it. I'm certainly not at that level of healing yet. Your characteristic dignity when discussing mental health is a great example to all of us. I've worked with all sorts of people disabled by emotional health problems and cognitive disabilities. You always represent the sensitivity and meta- cognition we all need to learn to actually make things better for everyone. Re: public spectacle. People with disabilities call the phenomenon "inspiration porn"- for mental health disorders it could be "pity porn" or something like that. I agree it has an ick factor.
I got through the series of that show as it was trending. I don’t know what it was all about but the main character seemed to have no accountability, no responsibility for anything he did or was done to him. He put the women he was supposed to be in a relationship at great risk with his alternate lifestyle, he put his father’s unhappy story for the world to see. Everything he did was so indulgent. He failed as a comedian until he forced his audience to listen to his life story. I don’t know maybe I’m too old for this stuff
I havent watched it, but It does concern me that someone would make a film and its HIS version only!!!! I get your points re him not taking accountability.
@@private_soul most of the time I had it on in the background and found no one in it I could relate to. Didn’t find it at all my thing but was hoping there might be a point to it. Basically it’s about his sxx life which is not a path I wanted to go down. Too sordid for me
The most helpful therapy i have had was in the relational modality instead of cognitive behavioral with someone who has specific training in trauma and cptsd
A very sensible and sensitive assessment. This kind of dysfunction comes from so much pain and loneliness, but I feel like we're much better off focusing on how to create the community and connections that can form a safety net to prevent this kind of thing than armchair-quarterbacking exactly what went wrong with any one person who suffers from it.
You are correct on all levels. I tell people all the time that they are partly sick because of the society in which we live! Between toxic upbringings and horrible, capitalistic society, you’re lucky if you have saneness and joy in your life at all.
Also no one knows the actual true account. Other than his version! I find it abhorrent that someone would make a film re it and then star in it...at rhe expense of someone else's misery.
You are extremely generous in your analysis of these characters/people Richard. Colleagues have said , you must watch it. I can't face too much crazy at the moment , so I am holding off. I will not claim to know everything, but I have been informed that the woman that this dramatization is based on , is now stalking MP's , and God knows who else ! It seems like a disaster waiting to happen, with regards to this woman. Being driven mad by loneliness is no excuse ! We live in a culture that rewards madness, complexity and drama. The question is , when will this end ?
I’m glad you come up to talk about this subject again. You are so bang on on the subject and I agree with what you saying. We all want to be seen and love and it’s a tragedy of this cruel world we live in and we all strangling to cope -more or less I had my stalking experience and I can put my hands up and admit I to play my role in it -in a sense I invite it into my life because I was struggling 2 . And the loneliness abandoned issues and lack of purpose stirred me into drama 🎭
Thank you for this. I've just freed myself from the grips of a narcissist by recognising my own worth, refusing to take part in the shared fantasy and telling him that whatever the reasons for his behaviour, that I didn't deserve to be treated like that. He flew into a narc rage (and this is a work colleague!!) and I just stayed really calm and told him that from now on we should just maintain polite interactions. These people are often extremely good actors. Sad part is, I think that he did actually have feelings for me but his narcissism wouldn't allow himself to fully trust me and he also needed to maintain the delusion of his false life and maintain his public image. I just decided I'd had enough
Narcissist don't have love feelings. They see supply.....either financial, sex, popularity, intelligence etc...plus, your probably very empathetic and giving.....
Hi, I discovered you not so long ago and I am glad of this. Your opinion is down to earth and speaks very much to me and is the most common sense opinion you had about this show and the people involved. Was very hard to watch, hard subject, but it made me also understand some things about the human psyche. It felt a bit as a voyeur watching the show and had to stop it many times. The things you said about not commenting about it, i felt it also and was nice to hear it communicated. Have a good day.
The honesty vulnerability and compassion shown in baby reindeer really moved me .I thought it was more of exploration of the characters vulnerabilties than a simple stalking story it was stunning .
I knew a lady in Canada who was fascinated by crowned prince of Dubai 15 years ago, via FB, when every celebrity was in it, and she thought he was talking to her, she was sending him gifts etc tht person with a picture of the prince was making nice comments abt her. She was around 35 at the time, never married vergin chunky, short, with a face of the victim or ppl pleaser, but in her mind, that he was the one for her and only her. When he got married, it broke her heart .I think up until today, she didn't date anyone.
Best description of Baby Reindeer I’ve heard. 💯% The overall unsettling feeling (violence notwithstanding) is going into the main characters’ sense of not being seen: surrounded by people, but unable to connect due to shame and therefore unable to be seen. However I completely disagree with your categorisation of erotomania as a predominantly female affliction: when men suffer from this delusion we call it dating, stalking, and murder. The difference is that men go straight to violence.
Fair. I thought it should be seen as 2 people with a variety & severity of mental health issues - that thru chance, discovered each other & each of their OWN issues - meshed in a very unhealthy & damaging way, for each of them.
I absolutely loved the series, it was fantastic, challenging, one of the most surprisingly great shows I've seen in a long time. It's unique. I'm not going to comment on anything else than the show itself here, so it won't be confused. What I missed from the show was the utter terror you feel from being stalked, it didn't quite show the mental effects it has when it comes to the psychological damage it does. I have a stalker myself, he's a narcissist. I very much understand the back and forth with the relationship part, the attachment issues when you´re drawn into it. I missed seeing the monster, to me it seemed more like she might resemble a borderline personality issue. Although I for sure think she was a narcissist. There's an unease and terror, I felt like what I saw was more fear. It could have given more justice to victims by showing more of the darkness to it. Not just the obsession of sending a lot of emails, after all it's not just a sick person doing that, there's something a lot more sinister behind it. Then again I don't think the series is about stalking alone, it's very well nuanced and paints a very interesting picture.
I was severely triggered by it but am a tad obsessed as well I’ve learned that I must never tell my story in public It would turn messy as this has It was an excellent story Very well executed
I think that you have the most accurate take on this...I actually believe that depth of psychological display has made it so over the top popular....just way more than a stalking. Ittvery nice that you are approaching it with grace and compassion.
That series was about an exchange of demonic energies. Humans become baffled by what happened until they meet Jesus. He is the Only One who can deliver us from these things and guess where the first place is that He will lead us? Together at church ❤✝️ God bless you all.
@@avanellehansen4525I watched three episodes before comparing it to What About Bob? But then it took a dark and sinister turn. Suddenly there was a lot of sex and violence. I assume South Park will have their own episode of Baby Reindeer.
What about Bob is one of the funniest movies l've ever seen. I laughed till l cried because it's so true. The blind leading the blind. Psychiatrists have the highest suicide rate. Good warning to stay away from them!
I laud your discomfort with making public display out of people's mental illness or even the fracture that occurs in a human under diress (like reactivity after years of abuse). Abusers love to put a spotlight on such fractures or falters, like bon bons. It is their reward.
Compassionate and realistic observations! I haven't watched it - I had a stalker almost ruin my life across two years - but I felt sadness even for him so I don't think I'll be partaking in this frenzy!
Really mature, balanced take from Richard.👍 I'm bothered by the vilification of a woman with serious mental illness and the strange Infantilization of Gadd. Mental illness doesn't give you a free pass to harm people- but with serious illness, you have to be realistic about how much agency that person might have when they are very delusional or psychotic. But the thing that irks me the most, is that- in real life- Gadd met that woman on a fetish website and pursued a very messy sexual relationship with her. This didn't start with pity and a cup of tea. That's where I wonder about the pathologizing of her sexual interest in him: how can it be erotomania if he they were in a (highly dysfunctional, on and off) SR? It's possible that trauma led him there, but it's also possible that he's a grown man with his own fantasies and turn ons....and he just fancied sleeping with a fat woman? I mean, if we can accept him fancying and sleeping with a trans woman, surely we can accept that he has wide ranging tastes that might extend past size 10 women? I don't know why that's part of the horror narrative, tbh- her fatness. I mean, Gadd is hardly an oil panting himself. I think it's just revealed how much hatred there is for women who exist in bigger bodies, or worse still, women who dare to exist past 40. What Rich Grannon described happening to him, which was genuine erotomania, is very different to Gadd sleeping with an unstable, socially vulnerable woman, discarding her, and then pushing and pulling until it became a stalking situation. The irony of all of this is that it's revealed more about the cruelty and sadism of viewing public than the villain of the story.
Great point. In a way, he encouraged her by befriending her. He'd push her away, then let her back. Her chasing him validated him and boosted his ego, but at the same time he didn't want her. She became trauma bonded. He just used her to boost his own ego. He also doesn't hold his boundaries due to low self esteem, as seen when he continued going back to the man who was SA'ing him.
I think it's also okay to say that they were two very flawed people who made a collection of bad choices. Everything gets framed as trauma induced, or related to low self-esteem. And I definitely think those things factor into our horrible relationship choices. But there's more to it. Some of it involves agency and human desire. It's about doing wreckless, risky things because we want to. Because we like it. I mean, I don't know if boinking someone's brains out on multiple occasions counts as befriending them. 😂 Richard summed it up as a dance between two wiling partners- think he nailed it. You could just as easily say she should never have befriended him. He's opened her up to global derision and bullying. Part of that feels deliberate and sadistic to me. I could be wrong, but I think he's dangerous, too- just more intelligent, saner, and very adept at telling stories that get people onside. It wasn't motivated by sympathy, it was motivated by strange fascination and desire. But I suppose if you aren't into bigger women, that just doesn't add up. Part of me thinks it's captured the public's imagination because deep loneliness and lack of community are widespread now, even among the young. Martha has served as a kind of Frankenstein's monster who the villagers can be fascinated and repulsed. She makes everyone else feel less ugly, less unlovable, less invisible, less crazy.
I just watched it. You're right, it's not at all a straight forward, typical stalker story. It illustrates very well how one type of abuse almost makes you attract and crave other 'genres' of abuse. How you become numb to healthy interactions and become abusive yourself to others in many ways.
I think your shoulder pain is caused by tight chest muscles (pectoralis major and minor). When these muscles become tight and shortened, they can pull on the shoulder joint and cause pain. Save yourself the dry needling and try stretching and massaging the fascia around your chest area to release the tension. I hope you feel better. ✨🧘♀️✨
I am an acupuncturist. Dry needling is not acupuncture. He needs someone with a degree in Chinese medicine. Shoulder pain is easy to treat. I treat the upper back at the spine, where the muscles attach, and where they attach at the shoulder. That releases them quickly. I always want to treat Richard when he cracks his neck. Pain is caused by tight muscles, and acupuncture relaxes them. If he wants to come to Dallas, I would treat him for free. 😃
@@CroisMoi Hi Sarah, I’m in Austin not too far from you :)! Richard tried both accupuncture and dry needling, from what I heard. What helped me the most is Rolfing when I had an injury, but everyone is different. I intuitively sense the chest area is causing the shoulder pain, which I shared, and hopefully it’s resolved soon with whatever healing method he chooses for it. Enjoy your evening. 🌸
@@brightstar4321 Hi. It is hard to say. I have a friend in England, and he got no benefit from the acupuncture from someone he found. Shame. You never know what people are doing. Yes, I hope Richard gets the best help soon.
Ps I’m sure your shoulder will be well soon, I’ve had a recent shoulder injury, took 5 months, rotator cuff can be longer, the body has an amazing ability to heal hang in there x
Just goes to show you how very complicated people can be under certain circumstances. I like that you mentioned this lonely culture which is incredibly sad. You must find a tribe. It's important that you do.
Thanks Richard. A different take on baby reindeer than most which I appreciate. I agree framing this as a crazy stalker woman fixating on a vulnerable man isn’t really the actual story. It’s an element, but it’s not the fundamental premise/moral observations of the ‘documentary’. Your macro view is far more ‘nuanced’ than the mostly black/white opinions people seek to have about all the characters. I think Fiona had every right to go on Piers Morgan and tell her side of the story. Everybody should.
Please research MioFacial Release Therapy. Most likely it is adhesion or muscle knots. The body stores memory and trauma in the facia. It is amazing when you realize how much is stored and pain. Once you learn how to release it, it heals.
You've made some very interesting points regarding the stuffed animal as a type of fetish. You've also managed to explain the phenomenon of furry fetishes quite well, intentionally or not. 😉 Makes perfect sense after you initially explained something that now seems aptly akin to the other types of furry "friends". I had previously thought those had somewhat similar psychokgocal undercurrents as some you've said-regarding those stuffed versions. The first and foremost appeal I saw was a sense of safety and security shared by participants. There is an obvious safety in not being seen and certainly so in such anonymity that goes so far beyond that of a simple, masquerade type disguise. Furries are sometimes or mostly completely covered head to toe, including the hands and feet, as these costumes go past anonymity to the point of completely non-human. Human hands and feet become four furry animal paws. There's safety in the physically pleasurable sensation of softness and being able to feel a pleasurable sensation fully through the further sense of secuirty that can be provided by being paired with and feeling a visceral sense of being protected by the physically comforting and visually non-threatening anoymous others, along with the safety of being fully covered in one's own comfortable costumed, oompletely non÷human furry form. A bell rang for me regarding thiat fetish after combining my own considerations I've made here with what much of what you said. *Ding!* It seems so simple and obvious now for something I'd found to be quite puzzling to understand back when that fetish was first being socially discussed, observed, and particularly with it occuring in noteably larger numbers than those of most other fetishes when they start to be spoken of, known about in general -certainly so when they're first seen and then start to be seen socially-if they ever even do reach such levels of social visibility that most fetishes never do, nor ever do care to. Good talk. I was not planning on seeing that movie because I thought it was another "guy stalks girl online" horror story. I'm glad it's not. Now I'll give it a watch sometime soon.
it'a interesting that Dunn doesn't really address his own childhood... and even offers us pretty sugarcoated version of his current relationship with parents...
I am an acupuncturist and I find it very sad that the terms dry needling has been invented. What is the difference between acupuncture and dry needling. Acupuncture should mean to use needles to improve the health, that is it. Any other name that is given opens the door for all the different practionners to do acupuncture without calling it so. My opinion might not find a lot of support, but it saddens me to see where we are heading with that. Acupuncture was a reserved act in Quebec, but nowaday Physiotherapists can do dry needling and it came to my attention that they even want nurses to get trained in a « scientific » puncturing technic which, to be honest, is acupuncture supported by the research instead of the Traditional Chinese Medicine. I hope your Acupuncturist did a good job with your shoulder. I only wanted to raise some awereness on this sensitive topic (to me).
minute 14: You are a lovely person. I can see how you could be turned into an object/ crucible of hidden fantasies. I am sorry about that. You are well grounded, and your Horse Stance (from one Karate-Ka to another) is perfect. That said, Thank you for helping me accept my own gut feelings regarding Baby Reindeer. I was really confused by who was sicker than who in that story. Sadness for the [characters] was the lingering emotion I retained, not ire, horror, or disgust. The new cinematic wave is about representing women as mentally ill as men, with the added bonus that female psychopaths make for fun entertainment, considering the novelty. Besides the fact that we need Feminism 2.0, the Liberation of the Female Principle, I imagined that the Writer was nearly apologizing for his own f*up. I don't know, but your insight helps, thank you for sharing.
I haven’t watched as yet, but I think the interview of the real woman is relevant as she indicates HE is the stalker and under delusions… and I can imagine if he kept pulling her back in it would feel like that
This is what abusive relationships are like. They make you question reality and question yourself. Abuse drives you to do things you wouldn't normally do and put up with things you normally wouldn't.
Having experienced uncannily similar SA and stalking (at a much later date), as well as being able to readily identify with Theresa's experiences as a trans woman, I found the show powerfully cathartic, at least in the way it holds a mirror up to these types of experiences. Especially the poor decision making that escalated. A key difference from my own experience was how quickly Gadd appears to have put himself back together, which I presume is in part due to the strong family support he eventually recieved.
Come to ireland to my remote farm 🚜 and write your book. I think you would enjoy hearing about my lifes experiences Adhd& Autistic & my stepdads experiences growing up in N.ireland the troubles & also Autistic ptsd and a bloody genious. I think you would fit in here really well. Im originally from london but settled here after travelling the world 3 times. I met the producers of bb to and they disgusted me also. Anyway theres a double room here or a 3 bed static9 mobile or shepperds huts coming..We breed beef cattle / animals and no people for miles in a forest 😊
What I love so much about Baby Reindeer is that it shows SO clearly just how complicated these kinds of situations can be and how sexual assault, trauma, C-PTSD, and violence isnt so cut and dry. There is no such things as a perfect victim and no one involved in the story is either all good or all bad. Relationships between humans are messy and complicated, and everything holds nuance and ambiguity, and that is something that is SO important to start talking about. I felt absolutely everything throughout watching the show; from disgust to pity to compassion to anger to immense sadness. Richard Gadd did an absolutely tremendous job at portraying the complexities of human nature and i take my hat off to him, I really do.
I know it may feel unsettling to feel like you are talking badly of their mental issues, but we, as a society have to bring these behaviors out into the public sphere to talk about them. To make narcissism known. I’m divorcing my nex after 25 years. I didn’t even know what the word narcissism really meant until a few years ago (after his 4th affair and threats to kill himself if I even mentioned it). It would have saved me many years of f#$cling misery. You are doing an important public service. Thank you. I commend you for not talking about the real woman.
I could've written this myself it sounds so similar!
This. As far as I'm concerned, we should be taught in school how to spot a cluster B disorder. I ended up stalked by my narcissistic ex and it nearly broke me.
The problem isn’t anyone specific diagnostic profile or cluster.
When people are ‘off’ other people usually reject them and ask them to ‘see a counselor’-Dismissively and mockingly often enough. That person might just be a terrible person with no diagnosis. I’m speaking as someone who can legally diagnose.
The problem as I see it is that most of us feel lost, isolated, confused and feel desperately lonely. All of that put upon someone who has a trauma-heavy history? All of that put upon someone with a genetic predisposition for xyz..They aren’t going to do as well.
I see you choosing someone repeatedly who was hurtful as not optimal functioning. Are you just as guilty? Perhaps. That seems sick too-doesn’t it?
Well said and agreed. I was left stunned with neither sympathy nor empathy, and unusually for me, with no discernible opinion at all, except for disgust. But, I think you are spot on about the interpretation. It is a modern dystopian loneliness we all are desperate to avoid while maintaining boundaries with our dearest who get too nearest. A tough balance all round.
❤
I feel that unless you’ve been abused in particular ways, you only see a crazy stalker lady. The show portrayed grooming perfectly. It portrayed being drawn to a familiar brokenness in another person perfectly. It portrayed seeking acknowledgement and attention from your abuser perfectly. He WAS a baby reindeer. He was the molested child that is helped and harmed by the same person and so his internal safety system is completely haywire.
👏👏👏
I think the show is about the effect of trauma, in particular of male on male rape. Richard Gadd says something along the lines that when you’re damaged through trauma, you attract abusers. This is correct. He recognizes his role in the stalking dynamic.
The worst part is, he kept going back for it.. back to the guy who was SA'ing him, and the woman he claimed he wanted to leave him alone. He gave mixed messages because he knew both situations were wrong, but he had something to benefit from them.
@mimo.1467I completely disagree with you. Very simplistic way of thinking. Humans are very complex and very fked up. That's the human condition.
Trauma bonding from sexual grooming is so complex that even the experts can’t completely understand it. Richard has the best explanation about this human experience 👏👏👏
@@Yayas_World29 Yes, I kept going back to abusive relationships. It took me a long time to stop.
"You only have a home when you leave, people miss you." When I leave, people say they miss me, because they are sad they cant control me anymore. I belive we are in a transitional phase. We left people who did not like us and yet not found those who do.
True for me too. I left home where I was not allowed to advocate for myself or to have a subjective experience of her, ie, no feedback, no reciprocal exchange of information, no visible emotional reaction to being hurt..... so I met a man who was "hurt" whenever I advocated for myself, got defensive and angry when I tried to beard. I put myself through this he'll again.
Free now. But my family hates me my x hates me. I feel like s lot of people use me as their spittoon.
Well writ; ditto. Hang in there and love yourself!@@SusanaXpeace2u
Keep healing, and hopefully you'll find people that actually miss you, I thought I'd never get there but here I am :)
Finally! someone says it’s not just about stalking.
Very well said ... the loneliness that sends people mad 😢
Probably the best analysis of the series yet.
Thank you for saying it was icky watching. I couldn't get through it, so much mental unwellness in the characters yet most people seem to focus solely on the woman stalker character.
I got through it, but saw myself in both of the main characters more than I wanted to. It was very complex and dark and sad.
I just finished watching 'Baby Reindeer'. I found it to be exceptional. I know it is disturbing, but I also found it comforting. We need to face the reality of abuse, neglect, rape and the impact it has on us all. I could relate to both of the main characters, and hope they both can heal.
Richard, I have been watching you for years. I am amazed of the vulnerability and empathy you have developed recently. Truly remarkable. It shows the inner work you have been doing.
I agree …. Richard seems humbled and that authenticity resonates more deeply with me.
Really, I've been watching him for years, and he's always been this way... a truly great human being.
Yes agree definitely seen further emotional vulnerability and maturity this year. Compelling x
You summed that up perfectly. I felt a lot of compassion for both of the characters. I do think the absolute worst thing his character did was to pull her back in. That kind of delusion can live for years on mere crumbs.
The sexual assault disturbed the hell out of me. It is no wonder that kind of boundary break can sometimes never heal. It also makes me wonder why on earth I sometimes watch things that depress me for weeks. How stupid is that.
Good luck with your seminar. I know it will be great!
I think everyone who has studied these disorders from sources like yourself can see that Gadd himself has a SHIT TON of PTSD and is arguably BPD himself. There is so much cluster B between them and it's sad.
It's a cluster B hive
Brilliant🐝😁👍@@ElanaVital83
Love your work and research and experience. It helped me rationalise my own existence again during and after a very scary, toxic and dangerous relationship
Impressive that you were able to watch it. I'm certainly not at that level of healing yet.
Your characteristic dignity when discussing mental health is a great example to all of us. I've worked with all sorts of people disabled by emotional health problems and cognitive disabilities. You always represent the sensitivity and meta- cognition we all need to learn to actually make things better for everyone.
Re: public spectacle. People with disabilities call the phenomenon "inspiration porn"- for mental health disorders it could be "pity porn" or something like that. I agree it has an ick factor.
Listening to this reminded me of why I subscribe to your podcasts. Excellent, thank you.
I got through the series of that show as it was trending. I don’t know what it was all about but the main character seemed to have no accountability, no responsibility for anything he did or was done to him. He put the women he was supposed to be in a relationship at great risk with his alternate lifestyle, he put his father’s unhappy story for the world to see. Everything he did was so indulgent. He failed as a comedian until he forced his audience to listen to his life story. I don’t know maybe I’m too old for this stuff
I havent watched it, but It does concern me that someone would make a film and its HIS version only!!!! I get your points re him not taking accountability.
@@private_soul most of the time I had it on in the background and found no one in it I could relate to. Didn’t find it at all my thing but was hoping there might be a point to it. Basically it’s about his sxx life which is not a path I wanted to go down. Too sordid for me
I thought the same. But everyone seems to have him on this pedestal.
The most helpful therapy i have had was in the relational modality instead of cognitive behavioral with someone who has specific training in trauma and cptsd
'they selected each other' spot on
A very sensible and sensitive assessment. This kind of dysfunction comes from so much pain and loneliness, but I feel like we're much better off focusing on how to create the community and connections that can form a safety net to prevent this kind of thing than armchair-quarterbacking exactly what went wrong with any one person who suffers from it.
Your authenticity is glowing! Best review ever.
Much admiration and respect for your brilliant insight, an absolutely remarkable and most informative analysis, thank you.
Wow! I love your take on it all, def best analysis I've read.
I appreciate your ambivalence in talking about this topic and the humanity with which you managed it here.
You are correct on all levels. I tell people all the time that they are partly sick because of the society in which we live! Between toxic upbringings and horrible, capitalistic society, you’re lucky if you have saneness and joy in your life at all.
I have not seen the show, but saw her interviewed. She was so sad. She needs help and people are bullying her.
Me too. I'm worried about self harm.
Also no one knows the actual true account. Other than his version! I find it abhorrent that someone would make a film re it and then star in it...at rhe expense of someone else's misery.
People are dispensable in the need for fame @@private_soul
Thanks for the compassionate view on this, I was confused watching it initially. I feel more clarity on the show now 🙏🏼
So glad you made your own vid covering this
This is happening every day, all over the world, mental illness is no joke....and yet there is still no proper help for anyone unless they are wealthy
The words of a true humanitarian. And spot on as well!
You are extremely generous in your analysis of these characters/people Richard. Colleagues have said , you must watch it. I can't face too much crazy at the moment , so I am holding off. I will not claim to know everything, but I have been informed that the woman that this dramatization is based on , is now stalking MP's , and God knows who else ! It seems like a disaster waiting to happen, with regards to this woman. Being driven mad by loneliness is no excuse ! We live in a culture that rewards madness, complexity and drama. The question is , when will this end ?
Super Richard. Thank you 🙏
Brilliant work richard agree with it all thankyou
This show was so very intense for me! It was done so well which kept me engaged , but I felt deeply sad and disturbed afterwards 😢
For weeks after!
I love your humanity in this
I’m glad you come up to talk about this subject again.
You are so bang on on the subject and I agree with what you saying.
We all want to be seen and love and it’s a tragedy of this cruel world we live in and we all strangling to cope -more or less I had my stalking experience and I can put my hands up and admit I to play my role in it -in a sense I invite it into my life because I was struggling 2 . And the loneliness abandoned issues and lack of purpose stirred me into drama 🎭
Thank you for this. I've just freed myself from the grips of a narcissist by recognising my own worth, refusing to take part in the shared fantasy and telling him that whatever the reasons for his behaviour, that I didn't deserve to be treated like that. He flew into a narc rage (and this is a work colleague!!) and I just stayed really calm and told him that from now on we should just maintain polite interactions. These people are often extremely good actors. Sad part is, I think that he did actually have feelings for me but his narcissism wouldn't allow himself to fully trust me and he also needed to maintain the delusion of his false life and maintain his public image. I just decided I'd had enough
Narcissist don't have love feelings. They see supply.....either financial, sex, popularity, intelligence etc...plus, your probably very empathetic and giving.....
@@mightymouse1005 or maybe he just has narcissistic traits rather than full blown NPD. Either way, he messed up this time
I agree with your take on this.
Hi, I discovered you not so long ago and I am glad of this. Your opinion is down to earth and speaks very much to me and is the most common sense opinion you had about this show and the people involved. Was very hard to watch, hard subject, but it made me also understand some things about the human psyche. It felt a bit as a voyeur watching the show and had to stop it many times. The things you said about not commenting about it, i felt it also and was nice to hear it communicated. Have a good day.
The honesty vulnerability and compassion shown in baby reindeer really moved me .I thought it was more of exploration of the characters vulnerabilties than a simple stalking story it was stunning .
Agree a hundred percent with your take.
I knew a lady in Canada who was fascinated by crowned prince of Dubai 15 years ago, via FB, when every celebrity was in it, and she thought he was talking to her, she was sending him gifts etc tht person with a picture of the prince was making nice comments abt her. She was around 35 at the time, never married vergin chunky, short, with a face of the victim or ppl pleaser, but in her mind, that he was the one for her and only her. When he got married, it broke her heart .I think up until today, she didn't date anyone.
What a thoughtful and nuanced analysis. I appreciate this type of content so much.
Bless you and thank you, Richard.
Best description of Baby Reindeer I’ve heard. 💯% The overall unsettling feeling (violence notwithstanding) is going into the main characters’ sense of not being seen: surrounded by people, but unable to connect due to shame and therefore unable to be seen.
However I completely disagree with your categorisation of erotomania as a predominantly female affliction: when men suffer from this delusion we call it dating, stalking, and murder. The difference is that men go straight to violence.
this is such a spot on analysis
SELFIE.....decribes narcissism...all about the SELF, likes and positive comments
Yeah - selfish.
Fair.
I thought it should be seen as 2 people with a variety & severity of mental health issues - that thru chance, discovered each other & each of their OWN issues - meshed in a very unhealthy & damaging way, for each of them.
What was his mental illness? I only saw him as a "typical" empath
I absolutely loved the series, it was fantastic, challenging, one of the most surprisingly great shows I've seen in a long time. It's unique. I'm not going to comment on anything else than the show itself here, so it won't be confused. What I missed from the show was the utter terror you feel from being stalked, it didn't quite show the mental effects it has when it comes to the psychological damage it does.
I have a stalker myself, he's a narcissist. I very much understand the back and forth with the relationship part, the attachment issues when you´re drawn into it. I missed seeing the monster, to me it seemed more like she might resemble a borderline personality issue. Although I for sure think she was a narcissist. There's an unease and terror, I felt like what I saw was more fear.
It could have given more justice to victims by showing more of the darkness to it. Not just the obsession of sending a lot of emails, after all it's not just a sick person doing that, there's something a lot more sinister behind it.
Then again I don't think the series is about stalking alone, it's very well nuanced and paints a very interesting picture.
A great and insightful video. Thank you Richard 🙏
It was a pleasure to watch and listen to you on this vid. Your take on things is refreshing. Your compassion impresses me.
He bravely asked for support & understanding for this situation through this very public movie
I was severely triggered by it but am a tad obsessed as well
I’ve learned that I must never tell my story in public
It would turn messy as this has
It was an excellent story
Very well executed
I realised too that I’ve been stalked many times
A few times in a scary way by exes
I think that you have the most accurate take on this...I actually believe that depth of psychological display has made it so over the top popular....just way more than a stalking. Ittvery nice that you are approaching it with grace and compassion.
Fetishized ! Your semantics rock
That series was about an exchange of demonic energies. Humans become baffled by what happened until they meet Jesus. He is the Only One who can deliver us from these things and guess where the first place is that He will lead us? Together at church ❤✝️
God bless you all.
Nice one
Sometimes people can't win (or be left alone) no matter what they do.
Love bombing = narcissistic Idealisation. Great description!
After watching a few episodes, I can’t help think about the movie “What about Bob?” 😂
Yes. I did too, but he's more of an annoying fruitfly and she's potentially dangerous!
@@avanellehansen4525I watched three episodes before comparing it to What About Bob? But then it took a dark and sinister turn. Suddenly there was a lot of sex and violence. I assume South Park will have their own episode of Baby Reindeer.
What about Bob is one of the funniest movies l've ever seen. I laughed till l cried because it's so true. The blind leading the blind. Psychiatrists have the highest suicide rate. Good warning to stay away from them!
I totally agree here. It is a many layered story of isolation abandonment and sadness at the heart of humanity today.
Thank you, man!!!!
It was a very awsome, full and so intellectual content. Iam so happy you mentioned a hungarian relation in the article, Iam hungarian ❤
Interesting 😊
I laud your discomfort with making public display out of people's mental illness or even the fracture that occurs in a human under diress (like reactivity after years of abuse).
Abusers love to put a spotlight on such fractures or falters, like bon bons. It is their reward.
I think people say "devaluation" for the discard phase after idealisation - but i feel the word "vilification" is more accurate.
Don’t watch Piers Morgan’s interview - I felt so sick after - Morgan is a ghoul, and a horrid person for doing this
It was like porn to him!
He’s hard to watch period. Brings down the respectable media. 👍
Compassionate and realistic observations! I haven't watched it - I had a stalker almost ruin my life across two years - but I felt sadness even for him so I don't think I'll be partaking in this frenzy!
Really mature, balanced take from Richard.👍
I'm bothered by the vilification of a woman with serious mental illness and the strange Infantilization of Gadd. Mental illness doesn't give you a free pass to harm people- but with serious illness, you have to be realistic about how much agency that person might have when they are very delusional or psychotic.
But the thing that irks me the most, is that- in real life- Gadd met that woman on a fetish website and pursued a very messy sexual relationship with her. This didn't start with pity and a cup of tea.
That's where I wonder about the pathologizing of her sexual interest in him: how can it be erotomania if he they were in a (highly dysfunctional, on and off) SR? It's possible that trauma led him there, but it's also possible that he's a grown man with his own fantasies and turn ons....and he just fancied sleeping with a fat woman? I mean, if we can accept him fancying and sleeping with a trans woman, surely we can accept that he has wide ranging tastes that might extend past size 10 women? I don't know why that's part of the horror narrative, tbh- her fatness. I mean, Gadd is hardly an oil panting himself. I think it's just revealed how much hatred there is for women who exist in bigger bodies, or worse still, women who dare to exist past 40.
What Rich Grannon described happening to him, which was genuine erotomania, is very different to Gadd sleeping with an unstable, socially vulnerable woman, discarding her, and then pushing and pulling until it became a stalking situation.
The irony of all of this is that it's revealed more about the cruelty and sadism of viewing public than the villain of the story.
Great point. In a way, he encouraged her by befriending her. He'd push her away, then let her back. Her chasing him validated him and boosted his ego, but at the same time he didn't want her. She became trauma bonded. He just used her to boost his own ego. He also doesn't hold his boundaries due to low self esteem, as seen when he continued going back to the man who was SA'ing him.
Wait, what? Where can I find info about how he met fiona
I think it's also okay to say that they were two very flawed people who made a collection of bad choices.
Everything gets framed as trauma induced, or related to low self-esteem. And I definitely think those things factor into our horrible relationship choices. But there's more to it. Some of it involves agency and human desire. It's about doing wreckless, risky things because we want to. Because we like it.
I mean, I don't know if boinking someone's brains out on multiple occasions counts as befriending them. 😂
Richard summed it up as a dance between two wiling partners- think he nailed it. You could just as easily say she should never have befriended him. He's opened her up to global derision and bullying. Part of that feels deliberate and sadistic to me. I could be wrong, but I think he's dangerous, too- just more intelligent, saner, and very adept at telling stories that get people onside.
It wasn't motivated by sympathy, it was motivated by strange fascination and desire. But I suppose if you aren't into bigger women, that just doesn't add up.
Part of me thinks it's captured the public's imagination because deep loneliness and lack of community are widespread now, even among the young. Martha has served as a kind of Frankenstein's monster who the villagers can be fascinated and repulsed. She makes everyone else feel less ugly, less unlovable, less invisible, less crazy.
I like what you said - I feel sorry for the child that she was.
I say the same about my abusive Father & Ex husband.
Yes you can make choices.
I just watched it. You're right, it's not at all a straight forward, typical stalker story. It illustrates very well how one type of abuse almost makes you attract and crave other 'genres' of abuse. How you become numb to healthy interactions and become abusive yourself to others in many ways.
I think your shoulder pain is caused by tight chest muscles (pectoralis major and minor). When these muscles become tight and shortened, they can pull on the shoulder joint and cause pain. Save yourself the dry needling and try stretching and massaging the fascia around your chest area to release the tension. I hope you feel better. ✨🧘♀️✨
I am an acupuncturist. Dry needling is not acupuncture. He needs someone with a degree in Chinese medicine. Shoulder pain is easy to treat. I treat the upper back at the spine, where the muscles attach, and where they attach at the shoulder. That releases them quickly. I always want to treat Richard when he cracks his neck. Pain is caused by tight muscles, and acupuncture relaxes them. If he wants to come to Dallas, I would treat him for free. 😃
@@CroisMoi Hi Sarah, I’m in Austin not too far from you :)! Richard tried both accupuncture and dry needling, from what I heard. What helped me the most is Rolfing when I had an injury, but everyone is different. I intuitively sense the chest area is causing the shoulder pain, which I shared, and hopefully it’s resolved soon with whatever healing method he chooses for it. Enjoy your evening. 🌸
@@brightstar4321 Hi. It is hard to say. I have a friend in England, and he got no benefit from the acupuncture from someone he found. Shame. You never know what people are doing. Yes, I hope Richard gets the best help soon.
haven’t seen it but now i will , like ur thoughts and ur kindness towards her his child , Do write 🙏❤️🙏
damn i’m gonna have to watch it now
OOOoooOooOo sounds like sympathetic magic!
The pre Freud “fetish” I mean
Ps I’m sure your shoulder will be well soon, I’ve had a recent shoulder injury, took 5 months, rotator cuff can be longer, the body has an amazing ability to heal hang in there x
I had trouble clicking on this one 😅. I barely watch movies or television.
Just goes to show you how very complicated people can be under certain circumstances. I like that you mentioned this lonely culture which is incredibly sad. You must find a tribe. It's important that you do.
Thanks Richard. A different take on baby reindeer than most which I appreciate. I agree framing this as a crazy stalker woman fixating on a vulnerable man isn’t really the actual story. It’s an element, but it’s not the fundamental premise/moral observations of the ‘documentary’.
Your macro view is far more ‘nuanced’ than the mostly black/white opinions people seek to have about all the characters.
I think Fiona had every right to go on Piers Morgan and tell her side of the story. Everybody should.
In Memphis, many people with shoulder pain do 16 ounce curls in sets of shared reps,.mostly on the weekends to allow for recovery time. 🍻
Please research MioFacial Release Therapy. Most likely it is adhesion or muscle knots. The body stores memory and trauma in the facia. It is amazing when you realize how much is stored and pain. Once you learn how to release it, it heals.
Perfect example of what happens to most empaths,as well.
Thank You!
You've made some very interesting points regarding the stuffed animal as a type of fetish. You've also managed to explain the phenomenon of furry fetishes quite well, intentionally or not. 😉
Makes perfect sense after you initially explained something that now seems aptly akin to the other types of furry "friends".
I had previously thought those had somewhat similar psychokgocal undercurrents as some you've said-regarding those stuffed versions.
The first and foremost appeal I saw was a sense of safety and security shared by participants.
There is an obvious safety in not being seen and certainly so in such anonymity that goes so far beyond that of a simple, masquerade type disguise. Furries are sometimes or mostly completely covered head to toe, including the hands and feet, as these costumes go past anonymity to the point of completely non-human. Human hands and feet become four furry animal paws.
There's safety in the physically pleasurable sensation of softness and being able to feel a pleasurable sensation fully through the further sense of secuirty that can be provided by being paired with and feeling a visceral sense of being protected by the physically comforting and visually non-threatening anoymous others, along with the safety of being fully covered in one's own comfortable costumed, oompletely non÷human furry form.
A bell rang for me regarding thiat fetish after combining my own considerations I've made here with what much of what you said.
*Ding!* It seems so simple and obvious now for something I'd found to be quite puzzling to understand back when that fetish was first being socially discussed, observed, and particularly with it occuring in noteably larger numbers than those of most other fetishes when they start to be spoken of, known about in general -certainly so when they're first seen and then start to be seen socially-if they ever even do reach such levels of social visibility that most fetishes never do, nor ever do care to.
Good talk. I was not planning on seeing that movie because I thought it was another "guy stalks girl online" horror story. I'm glad it's not. Now I'll give it a watch sometime soon.
it'a interesting that Dunn doesn't really address his own childhood... and even offers us pretty sugarcoated version of his current relationship with parents...
I am an acupuncturist and I find it very sad that the terms dry needling has been invented. What is the difference between acupuncture and dry needling. Acupuncture should mean to use needles to improve the health, that is it. Any other name that is given opens the door for all the different practionners to do acupuncture without calling it so. My opinion might not find a lot of support, but it saddens me to see where we are heading with that. Acupuncture was a reserved act in Quebec, but nowaday Physiotherapists can do dry needling and it came to my attention that they even want nurses to get trained in a « scientific » puncturing technic which, to be honest, is acupuncture supported by the research instead of the Traditional Chinese Medicine.
I hope your Acupuncturist did a good job with your shoulder. I only wanted to raise some awereness on this sensitive topic (to me).
Agreed 👍
@@lilachiricli6756 🤗
minute 14: You are a lovely person. I can see how you could be turned into an object/ crucible of hidden fantasies. I am sorry about that. You are well grounded, and your Horse Stance (from one Karate-Ka to another) is perfect. That said, Thank you for helping me accept my own gut feelings regarding Baby Reindeer. I was really confused by who was sicker than who in that story. Sadness for the [characters] was the lingering emotion I retained, not ire, horror, or disgust. The new cinematic
wave is about representing women as mentally ill as men, with the added bonus that female psychopaths make for fun entertainment, considering the novelty. Besides the fact that we need Feminism 2.0, the Liberation of the Female Principle, I imagined that the Writer was nearly apologizing for his own f*up. I don't know, but your insight helps, thank you for sharing.
Your eyes do the same as mine , unable to keep eye contact with those you speak to . I get ya.😊
I haven’t watched as yet, but I think the interview of the real woman is relevant as she indicates HE is the stalker and under delusions… and I can imagine if he kept pulling her back in it would feel like that
This is what abusive relationships are like. They make you question reality and question yourself. Abuse drives you to do things you wouldn't normally do and put up with things you normally wouldn't.
0:56 and this is why we want you to talk about it 😘
I would guess the opposite side of idealization could be demonization. Really enjoyed your perspective on this.
Remember this is only from his perspective. I’m hesitant to believe this is “truth”. He also has shown he has acting abilities. So hmmm….
31:00, Denial and the cost of ending the relationship
Yes i learned about fetish. Things that are used in a way other than what its supposed to be used for.
Thanks
Can I have some? 😜
Having experienced uncannily similar SA and stalking (at a much later date), as well as being able to readily identify with Theresa's experiences as a trans woman, I found the show powerfully cathartic, at least in the way it holds a mirror up to these types of experiences. Especially the poor decision making that escalated. A key difference from my own experience was how quickly Gadd appears to have put himself back together, which I presume is in part due to the strong family support he eventually recieved.
I keep wondering if I should watch it but don't want to be triggered
I was triggered
It disturbed me
But I’m glad I have watched
Honestly not worth getting triggered. It will still be available in the future.
Right on RG, you nailed it. Anyway why would one write a hundred emails a day without getting an answer ? What is the point ?
I wonder why you didn’t label her obsession as limerence? Now I’ll have to watch the movie. You’ve peeked my curiosity.
Come to ireland to my remote farm 🚜 and write your book. I think you would enjoy hearing about my lifes experiences Adhd& Autistic & my stepdads experiences growing up in N.ireland the troubles & also Autistic ptsd and a bloody genious. I think you would fit in here really well. Im originally from london but settled here after travelling the world 3 times. I met the producers of bb to and they disgusted me also. Anyway theres a double room here or a 3 bed static9 mobile or shepperds huts coming..We breed beef cattle / animals and no people for miles in a forest 😊