As someone who's been lifting for years and started golfing recently, I can 100% confirm strength makes a huge difference. It's only been 2 months since I started and my swing is horrible and inconsistent, yet my best drives when I actually hit it well go 250-260 yards on the range.
Totally agree with your assessment. The tour players of today are constantly training as world class athletes in the sport of golf. Regardless of changes in the equipment, they will still be longest and most accurate. I had the pleasure yesterday to play with a nineteen year old just out of high school with aspiration to play golf on the PGA. He’s already a high school champion with a golf scholarship. He was driving the ball 300 yards and consistently hitting the best area for his approach. A handicap of 3 under par. Just a delight to see. Yes I’m old but I hit it ok for an old guy and his tee shots were at my second shots on the par fives. They’re just much better elite athletes.
I've been. Playing over 45 years, in my 20's to 30's I was hitting 275 to 300 with the first metal head drivers and with a wilson ultra competition ball. As a senior player I can still hit the same yardage not by ability, but by club head and especially ball technology 👍 Golf has always been a game of skill and accuracy, if power was a massive advantage then the long driver hitters would all be top 10 tour players.
8:20 That's encouraging. I've just returned to the game after 25+ years of not hitting a single ball. I've been to the range around 8 or 9 times and not played a real round yet. My strike pattern is significantly better than that 15 handicap picture.
@@GolfingFocus I finally played a short 9 hole executive course on Monday. I still don't know my distances very well yet. Made 3 greens in regulation and 4 more were straight enough to hit the green but were either one club long or short. I'm feeling better about my comeback now. Was pretty nervous to play again but getting lucky and almost birdieing the first hole calmed the nerves. Gonna play a full course next week. It's good to be back out there!
I love these numbers. I need to work on my consistency, not my distance. In fact, the former builds the latter. I always need to remind myself I have plenty of speed. Just maintain your focus!
great video. Clubhead speed is the only avenue left for more distance. I would like to add that the tech in drivers ALSO allows for MAJOR forgiveness. If it wasn't for that, then these clubhead speed numbers would almost be irrelevant because it would be so hard to strike a close to perfect shot, compared to drivers made back in the 1980's. It's hard to really gauge that without direct comparisons with equivalent clubhead speeds of both head types (just saying if the same shaft was in both clubs so they could match up max speeds, the older clubhead is much harder to strike in the center because of it's smaller sweet spot). If there is any tech left for the companies, they might be able to make ball speeds across the face even better. Of course they're already doing a fantastic job of that, so they may be at their limit on that area as well.
Sorry to offend you :) I can see how increasing shaft length, increasing the spring effect on the face, or perhaps making the balls smaller might add distance. But of course those ideas go against the rules as they’re currently written. What I see is perhaps making club heads smaller and more aerodynamic and swing speed training as avenues to increasing clubhead speed. What is it you see that can increase distance within today’s rules? I’m genuinely curious, because I thought the distance gains via manufacture of the clubs themselves had pretty much been maxed out
@@touristguy87 OK, i've read your essay, and i don't disagree with anything you've stated at all. But you're jumping the gun on me here calling me ignorant about such things as control, sweet spot contact, launch angles, and club path delivery. And probably some other stuff, like tempo or somesuch that i'm not thinking about off the top of my head. I'm not discounting those things at all. With the advent of high-tech enterprise-level launch monitors, any golfer with time and money can know and practice how to do those things. Those things are not secrets. That's why i skipped right by those things, because all they take is knowledge of them, and practice to make it happen (and money to actually access such equipment). Go to Foresight's website and they've got a whole list of optimal numbers according to your driver swingspeed. I absolutely think anybody that can't figure their swing out ought to get a lesson. But assuming a high-level golfer has done these things, what else can he do to gain distance? Which is why i say clubhead speed is the only avenue right now for more distance, because i'm talking about the somewhat easy ability to maximize those numbers with a given swing (and certainly "easy" is relative, compared to trying to gain clubhead speed). But this is where you're talking about one type of golfer (the average golfer certainly can optimize their swing and hit it further, sometimes even 30 yards or more further). While i'm talking about guys that are hitting optimal numbers already, can only increase their distance by getting more clubhead speed. Of course i thought that was a given, since the vid is about professional golfers and how they get their distance. They all certainly strike the ball nearly perfectly, but none of them are swinging it under 110 mph either. You can swing slower, and master perfect contact, but if you're playing amateur competitions that require you to keep a handicap to qualify, that's just gonna get you blasted by a whole slew of lesser golfers that hit it by you 50, 60, 70 yards or more. The disparities really show up in distance off the tee. And not even at the pro level; the vast majority of those guys are within 20 yards of each other in average distance. That's nothing. But at these amateur comps, you'll see massive differences from one end of the scale to the other that make REAL differences, no matter how good your short game is.
@@touristguy87 Sounds like we're in agreement then, with your last couple of sentences. But i don't think you'll ever see the clubheads get smaller, unless there's an impetus to do so because of a rules change. I can't imagine anyone wanting to make the act of making contact harder, and that goes for weekend hackers right up to the pro ranks.
@@touristguy87 smaller clubhead could potentially be lighter and more aerodynamic, but that's all moot - no one is going to trade something that's easier to hit for something that you have to hit perfect.
@@touristguy87 That's what modern tech has given us today - balls that fly further, and drivers that DO allow enough error to let the really gifted guys swing at it incredibly fast - thus making contact somewhere on the face and still outdriving steady and straight guys to the point that they're making classic courses obsolete. I'm in the camp that thinks tech has done it more than enhanced physical ability compared to the past, FWIW. I think we're going deep into the weeds here, but in summary, IN MY OPINION, the pros hit the center so often that they wear spots out on them that anyone can plainly see. They're not perfect, but still close. All i'm saying is that your weekend golfers can do the same, if they practice and hit a lot of balls. I agree there's good efficient distance to be had there. You're just not going to hang with a guy that is a lesser golfer in the other skill areas if they're moving driver 15 mph faster than you. Now i'm talking about competent golfers, not the goons that have no idea where a driver is going, even though they hit it a mile. These clubs are all near their limits as the rules stand now, and launch monitors and lessons can help the common golfers maximize their strike. But swinging it 90 mph with a perfect strike is still going to be a far cry from 110 with a slight mis-hit, which would bring approach shots into play that are just a little too long to get dependable birdie looks. Whether or not the average weekend golfer NEEDS to pursue such depends on their requirements of competition, or their own goals. I will say that i do think launch angle (primarily angle of attack) is HUGE in gaining distance, possibly the biggest factor, outside of raw speed. You can see it on the LPGA tour every week. Those gals don't swing it any faster than the weekend golfer, but they've nearly maximized their contact and angle of attack. And i've enjoyed the back-and-forth, but i think i'm done. I don't have anything else to add to the convo :)
In addition to modern athletic training think there's something to be said for recent (last 15 years or so) sensing technologies giving pros the ability to get detailed feedback on their technique in real time. I assume every sponsored pro has a Trackman or similar device available at every practice session, and it's telling them *exactly* what's going on at the moment of impact, logging it, and storing it for either instantaneous or later analysis by the player, coaches, and fitters. This sort of tech is starting to trickle down into the amateur world as machine vision and mmwave radar gets more commodity, but the high precision/high resolution equipment is still out of reach, unjustifiable, or just too technical for all but the most serious players to own. When you do see a home golf sim it's often used more to simulate play in a sophisticated video game than as a formalized iterative training tool, and the sensing technology pack is lower fidelity. I'm sure having a home sim does improve amateurs games just by allowing them to get more time playing a relatively close simulacrum of golf, but for a pro I would expect the data is much more deeply analyzed by themselves and their team of domain experts, and regularly fused with other sensors like high speed cameras.
Drivers have long been maximized up to the limit established for a legal conforming club. New drivers won't give you any more distance unless it's fitted better or you change your swing.
I gained 30 yards from the titleist tsi model, not just myself, but 10 other people I know. I also gained an extra 5 when using the pro v1 ball over a tp5 ball. A new driver model is tested to specific limits, but that does not mean top end players get much different tools than normal people. Driver faces are thinned from 0.3 to 0.8 as they are not tested because its the general make that was only ever tested, a slight loophole people are never told about 👍
@@evelghostrider I out drive a couple of people that use the same driver as you and that's with my inexpensive acer. I'll take 240 yards straight down the fairway 100% of the time than 300 yards 50% of the time.
@@aliensarereal7832 I am a senior, I am by no means a long hitter. On trackman I carry around 270 to 280. My fairway statistics from shotscope driver is %68 FIR my miss left and right are about even, I never hit OB or deep into jungle.
What’s the Avg. driver shaft weight? I currently use Pro Force Gold XS 85g shaft tip stiff with 12 degree T7 square driver head. On course I hit approx 260 carry on a big hit and 240 on normal carry avg 250.
We found a big variety of shaft weights in the top 100 driver shafts. The lightest driver shaft we came across was 62g with the heaviest being 90g. 65g was the most common weight of driver shaft with 20% of them choosing that weight but there was a a lot of variance across the group.
@@GolfingFocus I chose 85 even though I was fit for 55 g in my driver and 65 g in my 3 wood. Playing the 55 g shaft felt a bit whippy to me. Although my swing speed was higher by 6-10 mph over the 85 g I currently use! So I definitely gave up yards. I was using a 10.5 degree with the 55 g driver coupled with a Nakashima Np-1 head. Great club head but she landed on the range 100 yds out after snapping it clean of the shaft. Best 400.00 I’ve ever spent😂.
@@touristguy87 What happened was I hit the ground behind the ball simple as that. No one was around me at the time. That shaft had an adapter on it to allow my club fitter to change the head later down the road if I desired. The Np-1 head was great. I have the 3 metal to match it. Unfortunately Nakashima no longer makes that model of head. I have also broke irons coming down to steep. I gave only busted heads off when trying new swing concepts. I gave also played golf for nearly 30 years on and off. I’m the only guy I’ve seen brake a club during the swing. My youngest found a way to bust his brother’s driver by throwing his pitching wedge into his brother’s downswing which busted the shaft exactly at the hosel😱. Anyway the lighter shaft was to whippy for me to play consistently off the tee. Practiced it right out of my bag😜
The players push for more distance has a strong connection to the analysis from Mark Broadie, i.e., longer off the tee means more birdie opportunities and better scoring. If equipment has reached its natural limits, the only way that the player can increase distance will be from additional swing speed gained from conditioning, (as per Matt Fitzpatrick's example). This in turn must have a strong connection to age, with testosterone levels declining in men from the age of 30. All of which makes me think that with the additional money in golf, the future of top-level golf will be dominated by very athletic, young men.
I am one of those aging males. I work out just to keep the distance I have. Time!! It is depressing. But as my DR tells me you are upright and playing golf.
I have to disagree, The top professionals have equipment made only for them, the drivers they use are not what people buy at the local golf store. The driver heads are highly modified, the face is from 0.3 to 0.8 mm thinner. I've been lucky enough to hit three of the worlds top 10 players drivers and they consistently went further by quite a bit than the over the counter model. You will have no doubt seen a few players asking to replace a driver mid round due to face distortion or cracks, its because the face is milled thinner. The elite will also have very specific balls made for them, again not the ball you buy of the shelf. I was given a sleve of highest quality balls from a top 10 player and when counting the dimples, there's had significantly more dimples and slightly different size also, in hitting with my own driver there was a 5 to 8 yard difference from the exact same ball you buy of the shelf. I had a custom fit with a major driver company and hit their driver 30 to 40 yards further over my own. So I ordered the very same driver, when I got it, it was not hitting those extra yards I'd seen on test day. So I booked another session with exact same make of driver and low and behold their driver was launching the extra 30 to 40 yards instantly. Without the guy knowing I swapped heads as they seemed identical, then went back to hitting balls via trackman data, he seemd very surprised the distance dropped way off and was confused, until I told him, thats your latest of the shelf driver and I've swapped heads, so I asked him to explain why such a difference. He was gobsmacked. Took the two heads to a friends engineering shop and measured face thickness. The demo face was shaved by 1.2 mm over standard. Forget what top professionals hit in distance, brysons 7 iron has the loft of a standard 4iron, his other irons are also crazy lofts. Weather and temperatures play a massive role as does wind. When you see most top pros play an open championship, you hear of them having to hit a 8iron to a 120 yard hole... even a 7iron. Measure how far you hit every club using the exact same ball and you will start to score better, in amateur days when players would say this hole is 165 yards what are you hitting, I'd pick up my driver and use it. You have 13 clubs to go from 5 to say 235 yards. Use what ever it takes to put you the correct distance. Remember carry distance against total distance 👍👍
Fascinating stuff and couldn't agree more with you re-how important it is to know your own distances and play accordingly. Know the top pros have specialised equipment compared to ours but would never have imagined it would make such a big difference. Given your experience do you think if we all used the same equipment as them we would all gain 30-40 yards straight away whatever standard? Would love to know the top 10 players drivers you tried too if you were able to share?
@@GolfingFocus gaining distance comes down to many aspects of the game. The most consistent thing I ask people todo is in the strike of every shot. Strike means every thing as it controls the yardage of every shot you hit. Most amateurs miss a target short because of the indifference in strike not poor club selection as an off strike can loose from 5 to 50 yards. So will professional level clubs give a big distance gain, I'd actually say it will give less gain as they become harder to hit. What you buy of shelf is focused towards all levels of player, until you get a fitting and can change loft and all shaft dynamics. As for testing the drivers, during the open in my home land of northern ireland, I got the full tour experience from all trucks. A regular playing partner is direct family to an extremely recent pga tour winner 🏆
I took my clubs to a fitting shop,got on the simulator and was hitting my 7 iron 195mts, about 210 yrds. on the course my 7 was a 150 to 160 club , questioned the pro ,all he did was pump my tires up ,I some how suspect the simulator was set up with strong following wind for one of his previous customs?
From a business standpoint it makes sense the mass market products fall on the more robust side, even if it's within the limits of the rules to make them more performant at the cost of fragility. If a pro damages a driver head they just get a new one off the truck without a thought, it's part of the package of being a pro. Amateurs don't generally have that luxury, they're either going to be waiting on a warranty or just SOL and out several hundred dollars on their destroyed prestige driver, and that doesn't lead to good brand rep if it happens anything but rarely and under really heavy abuse. The consumer variants not only have to be mass produced to a wider tolerance, but also have to be able to withstand hard strikes all over the face if not getting straight chunked into the ground. A ton of unskilled golfers buy them just because they want the prestige of the brand/model their favorite player uses, not because the freshest/finest tech benefits them. A more exaggerated parallel is when you see some guy with little experience try to ride their new race-bred barely street legal liter class sportbike off the lot and dump it, or when someone spins out their 700HP muscle car trying to show off leaving a car meet. The equipment is just too sophisticated for the operator.
I agree that the Pro’s consistent centre strike is far better than the average amateur, but to say that course conditions has a minor influence is a gross understatement. A 83 metre run for a Pro as compared to maybe 20 for amateurs is massive and far outstrips centre strike, conditioning or equipment. As a comparison add an average 50 metre run to amateur male driving distances and then see what the numbers look like. Ot pull the average run for Professionals back to 20 metres. Those massive looking drives would become less frequent. For instance that 422 yard drive then drops back to 330, still long. IF the PGA really wanted to limit distances, they would address the beed to soften fairways and harden greens, then lets see a -19 for a tournament. Those silly low scores would disappear overnight.
You're absolutely right the balls make a huge difference. Interestingly read a piece by John Daly recently where he talked about the distances he hit the balata ball in his day and how far he reckoned he would have hit the new ball. Not sure that explains the differences between the amateurs and pros though as we're all using the same type of ball pretty much.
That is true but the fact unfortunately is the pros mishits are always usually pretty good. They are not punished as severely for them as you say as they probably used to be but they are such good strikers of the ball on average they are not relying on the technology to maintain their distance and accuracy very often.
It’s not just distance, but accuracy also. Sure, many younger male amateurs may hit it further than the average LPGA player, but how often are they hitting the fairway? Even more telling is the iron play, which shows how much better the pro’s are than the amateurs. How many long drive specialists have been successful on the PGA or LPGA, none.
The distance vs. accuracy debate is always a fascinating one Jeremy although I'm not sure its that important by comparison now. Listening to Paul McGinley recently he cited a stat that ... "of the leading 100 players in the world rankings as of first of January 2021 only one of those ranked in the top hundred in driving accuracy on the PGA Tour. So it’s not that important to hit the ball straight anymore but it’s really important to hit it a long way.” With Bryson DeChambeau regularly competing in the world long driving champs and making it to the final in 2022 there are definitely long driving specialists being successful now on regular Tours.
What?????? Rack Golf Clubs are set up on either 10/12 yard increments. No player on any tour plays 10/20. Nicklaus was on 19, Tiger 19, Norman 19, I could go on and on. The Tour players hit the ball on average of 24 yards further then Rack Clubs can simply due to the way their clubs are set up.......
Think there are still marginal gains to be found with the modern equipment. It's just you're not going to see game changing improvements through equipment alone without the underlying fundamentals and skills.
Climate change, golf courses are drier and faster nowadays for longer periods in the year, and prepared with triplex cutters, ball velocity hasn’t changed for decades nor have players. Sometimes it’s hard to see the obvious from all the data.
Pros are driving further in completely simulated spaces too, not to mention the same distance gains over time show up all over the world on real courses in many different local climates. There are no uniform climate change effects, not even according to the most dire predictions and simulation models. Preparation no doubt absolutely has an effect though, golf courses are probably the most finely engineered outdoor spaces that exist, and big numbers are always good when it comes to marketing.
As someone who's been lifting for years and started golfing recently, I can 100% confirm strength makes a huge difference. It's only been 2 months since I started and my swing is horrible and inconsistent, yet my best drives when I actually hit it well go 250-260 yards on the range.
Totally agree with your assessment. The tour players of today are constantly training as world class athletes in the sport of golf. Regardless of changes in the equipment, they will still be longest and most accurate.
I had the pleasure yesterday to play with a nineteen year old just out of high school with aspiration to play golf on the PGA. He’s already a high school champion with a golf scholarship. He was driving the ball 300 yards and consistently hitting the best area for his approach. A handicap of 3 under par. Just a delight to see.
Yes I’m old but I hit it ok for an old guy and his tee shots were at my second shots on the par fives.
They’re just much better elite athletes.
That’s a great story Jack and very much hope your young playing partner progresses to the Tour one day!
I've been. Playing over 45 years, in my 20's to 30's I was hitting 275 to 300 with the first metal head drivers and with a wilson ultra competition ball.
As a senior player I can still hit the same yardage not by ability, but by club head and especially ball technology 👍
Golf has always been a game of skill and accuracy, if power was a massive advantage then the long driver hitters would all be top 10 tour players.
@@evelghostrider But all the top 10 players are pretty much among the longest hitters aren't they?
8:20 That's encouraging. I've just returned to the game after 25+ years of not hitting a single ball. I've been to the range around 8 or 9 times and not played a real round yet. My strike pattern is significantly better than that 15 handicap picture.
That's great. Welcome back to the game and hope you keep enjoying your return 👍
@@GolfingFocus I finally played a short 9 hole executive course on Monday. I still don't know my distances very well yet. Made 3 greens in regulation and 4 more were straight enough to hit the green but were either one club long or short.
I'm feeling better about my comeback now. Was pretty nervous to play again but getting lucky and almost birdieing the first hole calmed the nerves.
Gonna play a full course next week.
It's good to be back out there!
That's great@@TheInsaneShecklador. Hope all still going well with the comeback! 👍👍
Great content!
Delighted you found the video helpful 👍
I love these numbers. I need to work on my consistency, not my distance. In fact, the former builds the latter. I always need to remind myself I have plenty of speed. Just maintain your focus!
Great stuff Nicholas. Think lots of people probably in the same boat chasing extra swingspeed when its not the main problem! Good luck!
great video. Clubhead speed is the only avenue left for more distance. I would like to add that the tech in drivers ALSO allows for MAJOR forgiveness. If it wasn't for that, then these clubhead speed numbers would almost be irrelevant because it would be so hard to strike a close to perfect shot, compared to drivers made back in the 1980's. It's hard to really gauge that without direct comparisons with equivalent clubhead speeds of both head types (just saying if the same shaft was in both clubs so they could match up max speeds, the older clubhead is much harder to strike in the center because of it's smaller sweet spot). If there is any tech left for the companies, they might be able to make ball speeds across the face even better. Of course they're already doing a fantastic job of that, so they may be at their limit on that area as well.
Sorry to offend you :)
I can see how increasing shaft length, increasing the spring effect on the face, or perhaps making the balls smaller might add distance. But of course those ideas go against the rules as they’re currently written. What I see is perhaps making club heads smaller and more aerodynamic and swing speed training as avenues to increasing clubhead speed. What is it you see that can increase distance within today’s rules? I’m genuinely curious, because I thought the distance gains via manufacture of the clubs themselves had pretty much been maxed out
@@touristguy87 OK, i've read your essay, and i don't disagree with anything you've stated at all. But you're jumping the gun on me here calling me ignorant about such things as control, sweet spot contact, launch angles, and club path delivery. And probably some other stuff, like tempo or somesuch that i'm not thinking about off the top of my head. I'm not discounting those things at all. With the advent of high-tech enterprise-level launch monitors, any golfer with time and money can know and practice how to do those things. Those things are not secrets. That's why i skipped right by those things, because all they take is knowledge of them, and practice to make it happen (and money to actually access such equipment). Go to Foresight's website and they've got a whole list of optimal numbers according to your driver swingspeed. I absolutely think anybody that can't figure their swing out ought to get a lesson. But assuming a high-level golfer has done these things, what else can he do to gain distance? Which is why i say clubhead speed is the only avenue right now for more distance, because i'm talking about the somewhat easy ability to maximize those numbers with a given swing (and certainly "easy" is relative, compared to trying to gain clubhead speed).
But this is where you're talking about one type of golfer (the average golfer certainly can optimize their swing and hit it further, sometimes even 30 yards or more further). While i'm talking about guys that are hitting optimal numbers already, can only increase their distance by getting more clubhead speed. Of course i thought that was a given, since the vid is about professional golfers and how they get their distance. They all certainly strike the ball nearly perfectly, but none of them are swinging it under 110 mph either. You can swing slower, and master perfect contact, but if you're playing amateur competitions that require you to keep a handicap to qualify, that's just gonna get you blasted by a whole slew of lesser golfers that hit it by you 50, 60, 70 yards or more. The disparities really show up in distance off the tee. And not even at the pro level; the vast majority of those guys are within 20 yards of each other in average distance. That's nothing. But at these amateur comps, you'll see massive differences from one end of the scale to the other that make REAL differences, no matter how good your short game is.
@@touristguy87 Sounds like we're in agreement then, with your last couple of sentences.
But i don't think you'll ever see the clubheads get smaller, unless there's an impetus to do so because of a rules change. I can't imagine anyone wanting to make the act of making contact harder, and that goes for weekend hackers right up to the pro ranks.
@@touristguy87 smaller clubhead could potentially be lighter and more aerodynamic, but that's all moot - no one is going to trade something that's easier to hit for something that you have to hit perfect.
@@touristguy87 That's what modern tech has given us today - balls that fly further, and drivers that DO allow enough error to let the really gifted guys swing at it incredibly fast - thus making contact somewhere on the face and still outdriving steady and straight guys to the point that they're making classic courses obsolete. I'm in the camp that thinks tech has done it more than enhanced physical ability compared to the past, FWIW.
I think we're going deep into the weeds here, but in summary, IN MY OPINION, the pros hit the center so often that they wear spots out on them that anyone can plainly see. They're not perfect, but still close. All i'm saying is that your weekend golfers can do the same, if they practice and hit a lot of balls. I agree there's good efficient distance to be had there. You're just not going to hang with a guy that is a lesser golfer in the other skill areas if they're moving driver 15 mph faster than you. Now i'm talking about competent golfers, not the goons that have no idea where a driver is going, even though they hit it a mile.
These clubs are all near their limits as the rules stand now, and launch monitors and lessons can help the common golfers maximize their strike. But swinging it 90 mph with a perfect strike is still going to be a far cry from 110 with a slight mis-hit, which would bring approach shots into play that are just a little too long to get dependable birdie looks. Whether or not the average weekend golfer NEEDS to pursue such depends on their requirements of competition, or their own goals. I will say that i do think launch angle (primarily angle of attack) is HUGE in gaining distance, possibly the biggest factor, outside of raw speed. You can see it on the LPGA tour every week. Those gals don't swing it any faster than the weekend golfer, but they've nearly maximized their contact and angle of attack.
And i've enjoyed the back-and-forth, but i think i'm done. I don't have anything else to add to the convo :)
how did they get the placement of where the club hits the ball?
Dr Scholl Spray Powder does the trick for this!
In addition to modern athletic training think there's something to be said for recent (last 15 years or so) sensing technologies giving pros the ability to get detailed feedback on their technique in real time. I assume every sponsored pro has a Trackman or similar device available at every practice session, and it's telling them *exactly* what's going on at the moment of impact, logging it, and storing it for either instantaneous or later analysis by the player, coaches, and fitters. This sort of tech is starting to trickle down into the amateur world as machine vision and mmwave radar gets more commodity, but the high precision/high resolution equipment is still out of reach, unjustifiable, or just too technical for all but the most serious players to own. When you do see a home golf sim it's often used more to simulate play in a sophisticated video game than as a formalized iterative training tool, and the sensing technology pack is lower fidelity. I'm sure having a home sim does improve amateurs games just by allowing them to get more time playing a relatively close simulacrum of golf, but for a pro I would expect the data is much more deeply analyzed by themselves and their team of domain experts, and regularly fused with other sensors like high speed cameras.
Drivers have long been maximized up to the limit established for a legal conforming club. New drivers won't give you any more distance unless it's fitted better or you change your swing.
I gained 30 yards from the titleist tsi model, not just myself, but 10 other people I know. I also gained an extra 5 when using the pro v1 ball over a tp5 ball.
A new driver model is tested to specific limits, but that does not mean top end players get much different tools than normal people. Driver faces are thinned from 0.3 to 0.8 as they are not tested because its the general make that was only ever tested, a slight loophole people are never told about 👍
@@evelghostrider how far are you hitting the ball.
@@evelghostrider I out drive a couple of people that use the same driver as you and that's with my inexpensive acer. I'll take 240 yards straight down the fairway 100% of the time than 300 yards 50% of the time.
@@aliensarereal7832 you have a faster swing speed..
Hit your own driver, then hit the titleist tsi driver to make a suitable comparison.
@@aliensarereal7832 I am a senior, I am by no means a long hitter. On trackman I carry around 270 to 280.
My fairway statistics from shotscope driver is %68 FIR my miss left and right are about even, I never hit OB or deep into jungle.
Speed and strike
What’s the Avg. driver shaft weight? I currently use
Pro Force Gold XS 85g shaft tip stiff with 12 degree T7 square driver head.
On course I hit approx 260 carry on a big hit and 240 on normal carry avg 250.
We found a big variety of shaft weights in the top 100 driver shafts. The lightest driver shaft we came across was 62g with the heaviest being 90g. 65g was the most common weight of driver shaft with 20% of them choosing that weight but there was a a lot of variance across the group.
@@GolfingFocus I chose 85 even though I was fit for 55 g in my driver and 65 g in my 3 wood.
Playing the 55 g shaft felt a bit whippy to me. Although my swing speed was higher by 6-10 mph over the 85 g I currently use! So I definitely gave up yards. I was using a 10.5 degree with the 55 g driver coupled with a Nakashima Np-1 head. Great club head but she landed on the range 100 yds out after snapping it clean of the shaft. Best 400.00 I’ve ever spent😂.
@@touristguy87
What happened was I hit the ground behind the ball simple as that. No one was around me at the time. That shaft had an adapter on it to allow my club fitter to change the head later down the road if I desired. The Np-1 head was great. I have the 3 metal to match it. Unfortunately Nakashima no longer makes that model of head. I have also broke irons coming down to steep.
I gave only busted heads off when trying new swing concepts. I gave also played golf for nearly 30 years on and off. I’m the only guy I’ve seen brake a club during the swing.
My youngest found a way to bust his brother’s driver by throwing his pitching wedge into his brother’s downswing which busted the shaft exactly at the hosel😱.
Anyway the lighter shaft was to whippy for me to play consistently off the tee. Practiced it right out of my bag😜
The players push for more distance has a strong connection to the analysis from Mark Broadie, i.e., longer off the tee means more birdie opportunities and better scoring. If equipment has reached its natural limits, the only way that the player can increase distance will be from additional swing speed gained from conditioning, (as per Matt Fitzpatrick's example). This in turn must have a strong connection to age, with testosterone levels declining in men from the age of 30. All of which makes me think that with the additional money in golf, the future of top-level golf will be dominated by very athletic, young men.
I am one of those aging males. I work out just to keep the distance I have. Time!! It is depressing. But as my DR tells me you are upright and playing golf.
Depends on the course. Accuracy and consistency wins most of the time.
I have to disagree, The top professionals have equipment made only for them, the drivers they use are not what people buy at the local golf store. The driver heads are highly modified, the face is from 0.3 to 0.8 mm thinner. I've been lucky enough to hit three of the worlds top 10 players drivers and they consistently went further by quite a bit than the over the counter model.
You will have no doubt seen a few players asking to replace a driver mid round due to face distortion or cracks, its because the face is milled thinner.
The elite will also have very specific balls made for them, again not the ball you buy of the shelf. I was given a sleve of highest quality balls from a top 10 player and when counting the dimples, there's had significantly more dimples and slightly different size also, in hitting with my own driver there was a 5 to 8 yard difference from the exact same ball you buy of the shelf.
I had a custom fit with a major driver company and hit their driver 30 to 40 yards further over my own. So I ordered the very same driver, when I got it, it was not hitting those extra yards I'd seen on test day. So I booked another session with exact same make of driver and low and behold their driver was launching the extra 30 to 40 yards instantly.
Without the guy knowing I swapped heads as they seemed identical, then went back to hitting balls via trackman data, he seemd very surprised the distance dropped way off and was confused, until I told him, thats your latest of the shelf driver and I've swapped heads, so I asked him to explain why such a difference. He was gobsmacked.
Took the two heads to a friends engineering shop and measured face thickness. The demo face was shaved by 1.2 mm over standard.
Forget what top professionals hit in distance, brysons 7 iron has the loft of a standard 4iron, his other irons are also crazy lofts.
Weather and temperatures play a massive role as does wind. When you see most top pros play an open championship, you hear of them having to hit a 8iron to a 120 yard hole... even a 7iron.
Measure how far you hit every club using the exact same ball and you will start to score better, in amateur days when players would say this hole is 165 yards what are you hitting, I'd pick up my driver and use it. You have 13 clubs to go from 5 to say 235 yards. Use what ever it takes to put you the correct distance. Remember carry distance against total distance 👍👍
Fascinating stuff and couldn't agree more with you re-how important it is to know your own distances and play accordingly. Know the top pros have specialised equipment compared to ours but would never have imagined it would make such a big difference. Given your experience do you think if we all used the same equipment as them we would all gain 30-40 yards straight away whatever standard? Would love to know the top 10 players drivers you tried too if you were able to share?
VERY INTERESTING. Also fairways used in professional competitions are much better than many golf courses in Britain.
@@GolfingFocus gaining distance comes down to many aspects of the game. The most consistent thing I ask people todo is in the strike of every shot. Strike means every thing as it controls the yardage of every shot you hit.
Most amateurs miss a target short because of the indifference in strike not poor club selection as an off strike can loose from 5 to 50 yards.
So will professional level clubs give a big distance gain, I'd actually say it will give less gain as they become harder to hit.
What you buy of shelf is focused towards all levels of player, until you get a fitting and can change loft and all shaft dynamics.
As for testing the drivers, during the open in my home land of northern ireland, I got the full tour experience from all trucks. A regular playing partner is direct family to an extremely recent pga tour winner 🏆
I took my clubs to a fitting shop,got on the simulator and was hitting my 7 iron 195mts, about 210 yrds. on the course my 7 was a 150 to 160 club , questioned the pro ,all he did was pump my tires up ,I some how suspect the simulator was set up with strong following wind for one of his previous customs?
From a business standpoint it makes sense the mass market products fall on the more robust side, even if it's within the limits of the rules to make them more performant at the cost of fragility. If a pro damages a driver head they just get a new one off the truck without a thought, it's part of the package of being a pro. Amateurs don't generally have that luxury, they're either going to be waiting on a warranty or just SOL and out several hundred dollars on their destroyed prestige driver, and that doesn't lead to good brand rep if it happens anything but rarely and under really heavy abuse. The consumer variants not only have to be mass produced to a wider tolerance, but also have to be able to withstand hard strikes all over the face if not getting straight chunked into the ground. A ton of unskilled golfers buy them just because they want the prestige of the brand/model their favorite player uses, not because the freshest/finest tech benefits them. A more exaggerated parallel is when you see some guy with little experience try to ride their new race-bred barely street legal liter class sportbike off the lot and dump it, or when someone spins out their 700HP muscle car trying to show off leaving a car meet. The equipment is just too sophisticated for the operator.
I agree that the Pro’s consistent centre strike is far better than the average amateur, but to say that course conditions has a minor influence is a gross understatement. A 83 metre run for a Pro as compared to maybe 20 for amateurs is massive and far outstrips centre strike, conditioning or equipment.
As a comparison add an average 50 metre run to amateur male driving distances and then see what the numbers look like.
Ot pull the average run for Professionals back to 20 metres. Those massive looking drives would become less frequent. For instance that 422 yard drive then drops back to 330, still long.
IF the PGA really wanted to limit distances, they would address the beed to soften fairways and harden greens, then lets see a -19 for a tournament. Those silly low scores would disappear overnight.
One thing that wasn’t mentioned was the big effect modern day balls have had on distance.
You're absolutely right the balls make a huge difference. Interestingly read a piece by John Daly recently where he talked about the distances he hit the balata ball in his day and how far he reckoned he would have hit the new ball. Not sure that explains the differences between the amateurs and pros though as we're all using the same type of ball pretty much.
Amateur TLDR - If you want more distance, check and fix your strike pattern, even if it involves a loss of clubhead speed.
Mis hits are not punished nearly as much with the new driver technology
That is true but the fact unfortunately is the pros mishits are always usually pretty good. They are not punished as severely for them as you say as they probably used to be but they are such good strikers of the ball on average they are not relying on the technology to maintain their distance and accuracy very often.
It’s not just distance, but accuracy also. Sure, many younger male amateurs may hit it further than the average LPGA player, but how often are they hitting the fairway? Even more telling is the iron play, which shows how much better the pro’s are than the amateurs. How many long drive specialists have been successful on the PGA or LPGA, none.
The distance vs. accuracy debate is always a fascinating one Jeremy although I'm not sure its that important by comparison now. Listening to Paul McGinley recently he cited a stat that ... "of the leading 100 players in the world rankings as of first of January 2021 only one of those ranked in the top hundred in driving accuracy on the PGA Tour. So it’s not that important to hit the ball straight anymore but it’s really important to hit it a long way.” With Bryson DeChambeau regularly competing in the world long driving champs and making it to the final in 2022 there are definitely long driving specialists being successful now on regular Tours.
I'm no expert but I'm a longtime golfer and it seems as though shaft performance has and is continuing to improve.
simple
most of us spent 9/10 hours working to pay bills while they hit golf balls
😂 Fair point!
I just need to be 30 years younger. Thatll imprrove my distance.
😂👍
What??????
Rack Golf Clubs are set up on either 10/12 yard increments.
No player on any tour plays 10/20. Nicklaus was on 19, Tiger 19, Norman 19, I could go on and on.
The Tour players hit the ball on average of 24 yards further then Rack Clubs can simply due to the way their clubs are set up.......
Do we check this guys for drugs . Gym plus drugs mean distance.
all clubs are the same they all go the same distance
Think there are still marginal gains to be found with the modern equipment. It's just you're not going to see game changing improvements through equipment alone without the underlying fundamentals and skills.
Climate change, golf courses are drier and faster nowadays for longer periods in the year, and prepared with triplex cutters, ball velocity hasn’t changed for decades nor have players. Sometimes it’s hard to see the obvious from all the data.
Pros are driving further in completely simulated spaces too, not to mention the same distance gains over time show up all over the world on real courses in many different local climates. There are no uniform climate change effects, not even according to the most dire predictions and simulation models. Preparation no doubt absolutely has an effect though, golf courses are probably the most finely engineered outdoor spaces that exist, and big numbers are always good when it comes to marketing.
Climate change!! Hahahahahaha!
Nope, technique, conditioning and good geometric dynamics is key….get a good pro to help….