I was told to be the bigger person all the time. My narcissistic mother told me that about my kindergarden and school bullies, my environment told me that about my narcissistic parents, later my sibling and my half-siblings told me that when I finally went no contact. I'm the bigger person, so I grit my teeth all the time, freeze when I should defend myself and I had dreams for YEARS about being unable to defend myself from these people. In these dreams I usually can't slap hard enough or my mouth is stuffed with cotton wool or I have the humiliating experience that water is floating out of my mouth with no end and I can't speak. Or later, I yell my throat out, it hurts, but I barely make any sound. These dreams made me realize how helpless I became by always being the "better" person in a conflict. In the past months when those dreams returned, sometimes I was able to spill out some sentences at least or give a moderately good slap in the face to someone who hurt me. So I'm making progress at least in my head I'd say. But I still have regrets about being this so-called "better" person in the past just to make the life of my narcissist's, bullies and enablers easier.
This is SO much my experience. My mother always did the same thing, and now I freeze in conflicts, particularly with strangers. My personal nightmare is I have dreams where I warn everyone of danger but nobody pays attention, like they can't even hear me.
I spent my entire childhood and teenage years havong nightmares. Most of them were just like the ones you describe. But I have only recently understood where they all came from.
Oh I hate the "be the bigger person" phrase! I was bullied a lot especially in middle school and was told that crap. Adults called me "strong" or a "good person" for just putting up with sh*t. It was gaslighting.
Go see the “Inspire Nation” channel on Automatic Writing with Michael. It may help you get that stuff out and onto paper, so you can get some relief, by expressing your feeling there. And hug yourself daily, for as along as you need to feel comforted. Make it a big hug. You deserve it! All the best to you Lex!
"Be the bigger person"= "just shut up and comply"...I strongly believe that the non-narcissist individual already is the bigger person due to the fact that s/he is not the one out there abusing the emotion of others. One does not have to open themselves to blatant leeching to be a good person and it will be very difficult for us to adopt this outlook on narcissism unless we realize that enablers are not just casual commenters or passive well-wishers but accomplices to the narcissistic abuse. Unless we identify and hold them responsible as such, we, as a society will keep producing narcissistic abusers with their enabling yes-wo/men who will continue to support the pillars that keep the narcissist standing while evading all blames for their own actions.
Amen. I have no qualms with calling out enablers for dismissing abuse 💯 They are perpetrating by way of perpetuating. They are manipulators just the same. Peace and Health
Your statements have some truth to them but the way you present your concept has no need to take aim and blame those who have been deeply victimized by one or many narcs in their lives. Not all survivers are able or ready to think in such a manor or may never wish to treat others harshly. I advocate holding narcs accountable for their actions. We as individuals and a larger society need strategies that are not just defensive and self protective in nature such as avoidance or gray rock. There is a time and need for those tactics during active abuse and need to survive. However, one only gets to a place of pro-active responses towards narcs long after they've been able to process their own situations and gain some personal ground. To call them out for being trapped and forced to endure abuses until such time as they can take other steps is unwarranted. Many on this site have been abused to the degree of being physically over powered or have been lured into traps that cost their mental and physical health. BTW not all persons subjected to abuse are enablers. There are many who were dupped into relations by the chameleons they encountered, and later, forcibly trapped. Some were born the child of narc parents and systematically abused from birth. The variety of ways narcs abuse can never be all accounted for. Partly because narcs grow and adapt their behaviors after having been confronted. Some will even wait years before enacting revenge on survivers for having the audacity to wound them. Meanwhile they polish their abilities and acting skills on those around them while also still learning. Some by watching YT videos or visiting narcissitic web sites.
My immediate response is HELL no & my narcissist is my identical twin sister. She has NO special claim to me or anything in my body! I have lost a big chunk of my heart & have heard the be the bigger person BS from my family. Family has been more upset by me going no contact than what she has done to me for decades. I will not be minimized again. You Dr Ramani, helped me go no contact & changed my world. My twin has really kick up her toxicity but through you....I'm grey rocking & sticking to my boundaries!! Much love 💜
Having the narcissist be your identical twin must add yet another layer of pain that the rest of us haven't felt. What should be the person most like you -- the one who celebrates your triumphs and supports you in your disappointments -- is the one who actually minimizes or ignores your triumphs and secretly (or perhaps not so secretly) delights in your pain. So sad. Yes, she's still alive, but I feel like this is appropriate: Sorry for your loss. You were robbed of a sister, a friend, a confidant, and a partner in crime.
Ten years ago I turned down an abusive, narcissistic, golden child sibling’s request for financial assistance and I still feel so good and proud for sticking up for myself. If I had known how much mileage I would have received from doing that I would have started years and years ago.
Hans that's so good. Sometimes I think if I just could say NO I'd be so much better off. All I had done was say nothing as I always felt paralysed. I've haven't seen my abusive mother for almost 2 years and it's helping me to gain much needed strength.
Disengaging from people who are harming you whether it is your Sister, brother, aunt, vousin, neighbour, friend, clients, doctor or any other abusive one is an act of self-respect, self-preservation and maturity in which we respectfully acknowledge the right to freedom of choice for the abusive other as well as ourselves. Thank you for your words of reason and common sense in today’s world dr Ramani. God bless you❤
At first when I asked myself: "Would you give your toxic narcissistic sister a kidney?" I felt guilt. I felt that it is MY responsibility to give. But then I asked myself "Would my sister give me a kidney?". Well... That clarified everything because I am sure that she would never do that. That was the moment of change, I stoped feeling guilty. I am still healing. Thank you so much for this video.
I’m done with people trying to give me the guilt trip. I will never again let anyone do that to me. 7 years I dealt with my narcissist ex. We have a child together & I’m stuck with him for the rest of my life 🥴😞😢😩
Amen! I had a therapist tell me that I should have compassion for my narc, and it make me feel like such crap. My life was falling apart and I am expected to just be okay with someone who was supposed to be my friend gossiping about me, isolating me, devaluing me, etc. I never went back to that therapist!
I'm glad you cut off such therapist. My previous therapists are also unempathic and lack knowledge of dysfunctional relationship so I terminated therapy.
Same here, My therapist for 8 years was in some how pushing me to work on the relationship... I tried for 2 years, even if I knew since the beginning that that was toxic, the last talk with my therapist was so strong I told him " I am not a lab rat for your social experiment, there's my life in the middle I CAN'T risk " (because my ex narc boyfriend was coming from a third world country) and than I cut the contact with my therapist and that was the time I broke up with my ex boyfriend.
These comments contain great amd very real insights into what can be damaging input from a professional …. in the mental health field we need much more awareness and education regarding this issue … a personality disorder is NOT in fact an mental ‘illness’ that can be ‘cured’ in the sense that is not a temporary condition but is a character trait whatever the origin of the disorder might be…. There are some of us in the field who do understand and continue to seek additional training and knowledge so we might not harm persons that are coming into therapy to seek real healing and support. There is controversy among professionals in the mental health field regarding whether some cluster B disorders are amenable to treatment IF the individual has the desire and some ability to stay with therapy and willingness to focus upon how they affect the world around them but that is not to say it is likely to see such a person become completely free of the disorder . But the journey they take is their own and must not be predicated upon other people around them enabling or accommodating their negative and often destructive behaviors… I’m sad for the persons who commented above about having had an experience in therapy that was possibly more damaging to their sense of emotional safety and trust than it was therapeutic.
After the childhood I've had with my big brother, I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire. While we were both victims of narcissistic abuse, he took out a lot of his anger and feelings of powerlessness on me. Now we're adults and he's married doing the exact same thing to his wife and stepchildren.
😫 This was me an enabler to the core of me. I use to be a flying monkey for many narcissists. I feel so bad for enabling making excuses for narcissists bad behavior. Trying to see the good in them. I couldn’t understand why I could never have a good relationship, why my friends were using their darkness on me. I literally had to cut off my family and friends they were all narcissists to get to my mess of enabling and to heal. Now I’m no contact and they are all frantic. I hate that I enabled all of them. I’m alone and it’s my choice too.
This reads like a cautionary tale or a dark fable, The Kidney and The Narcissist. It’s a brilliant illustration of the horrors and devastation caused by the enabling of narcissistic behavior. In the tale, the sibling would read the article, feel shamed, give the kidney and suffer years of complications at the hands of his own body and those of the narcissist.
It seems it will take a really long time for this world to deal appropriately with narcissists and the abuse they inflict on others,if ever, we are living in a world where narcissism is encouraged on social media and narcissists lauded,and "hight moral ground" so called "experts" who have never experienced that kind of abuse will continue to pile guilt on the victims while totally ignoring the aberrant behaviour of perpetrators,saying we must "forgive" that forgiveness heals all,what a lot of rot!
@@yvettevernet4759 My hope is that as Dr Ramani helps train a new generation of therapists and educates the layman, the tide will change in important ways. I never hoped someone with her skillset and personal experience would come along. I know I'm not the only one to feel the epic sense of relief that at least *one* person in the whole world is able to see the full picture. My dream is that we write the end of the story together; without narcissistic supply, those who require it will be starved out. Like at the zoo, "do not feed the animals".
@@NellyBlyAlibi We can only hope,but at least some people will be educated about it.It will take a very long time for "society" to wake up to narcissists,mostly because those who lead and have "high profile' got there because they are narcissists with an iron determination and not caring what it took to acquire fame and power.
Of course Dr. Ramani is genius-level helping us, but her little attitude in this video is helping me stop ruminating by her cuteness alone!! National treasure.
Iv actually seen this flipped! The empathetic brother needed a kidney from the highly malignant narcissist sister, she refused to give hers! So you are right, why should we be the better person? It isn't teaching anything but that we can be walked on.
Ironically, my communal narcissist sister more than likely WOULD give me her spare kidney if I went into surgery if she was the perfect donor. BUT only so that she could (yet again like everything else in her life) look like such a cool, tough, brave, generous, altruistic bad *ss to everyone and to lord it over me for the rest of my life ontop of everything else she's ever "done for me" and I'd have to grovel and worship her for it. And if I didn't, she'd be able to play the victim to everyone else about what a huge sacrifice she gave for me, just to be "repaid" with a selfish, ungrateful younger sister who can't even be bothered to come over to her house to hang out (to get bullied and degraded) or help her out now and then (sister slave labor). Everything, EVERYTHING is transactional with that woman, NOTHING is done purely out of love or true family loyalty, and the price I pay for her "help" is always much higher than the "favor" or "gift" cost me to receive. I'll take dying on the operating table over taking a kidney transplant from the biggest bully of my entire life aside from my narc father and ex step mother and ex step nephew. Honestly, after all the horrible bullsh*t I've dealt with from them they can all go to h*ll and find someone else to pick on if I died. But knowing them, those vultures would probably still be preying on my energy post-mortem about what a "terrible" person I always was and how "sad" it is that I never "appreciated" them and everything they "did for me my whole life" and how I squandered all of my "potential" to live up to their expectations of me. Sick b*st*rds.
@@M_SC I disagree with your take. It is what a narcissist might say, but they wouldn't give it to their kid, either. What's important is that the narcissist might accept it as the NO it is.
@@M_SC I think you misunderstand my point, which is the right we all have to choose and the obligation to do so wisely. Any family member could be in the said narcissist's place of need of a transplant but not all family members are equal in a person's life. We need to think twice... Plus, it's not like there's no other match in the world. Choosing to say no won't kill the narcissist in need of the transplant...
Hi! I have my MS in medical ethics and getting my doctorate this summer. YOU HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO ANYONE. The organ is a gift not an expectation. obligating someone to burdens robs them of agency and autonomy. This made my head explode
Thank you for pulling me back to reality, Dr. Ramani. Just hearing the scenario made me anxious, and my knee-jerk response was, yes, I’d give the kidney. How could I not? And THAT, my friends, is why I was stuck for so many years in a relationship that was slowly killing me. No more.
My brother recently lost his only 25 year old son in a motorcycle accident. At the funeral our malignant narcissistic mother, who he went no contact 3 years ago, was rudely talking loudly on her phone and to her husband during the service even after my brother told her to stop. She then proceeded to try to hug my brother and when he refused and extended his hand instead she slapped his hand away and she also told my deceased nephew’s mom that my brother prevented her from seeing him and now he is dead. These were a few of the things she said and did so, NO! I wouldn’t donate my kidney to a narcissist and I wouldn’t feel bad.
"Be the better person" and "do the right thing" were very self-serving directives of my N. parent and sibling. The lesson was really more "do as I say not as I do." This question of ethics has always proved to be the fertile ground that kept me stuck first in ignorance and now, burdened by the guilt of doing what's "right." Interestingly, the care of my elderly N. parent has fallen 100 % on my shoulders while my N. sibling, doesn't experience any guilt of conscience at being a no-show. They weave a different story for the public but the truth is, for narcissists, they're ghosts when life gets tough or messy,
Omg, I’m in the exact situation as you. I’m now looking after my elderly narcissistic mother and I’ve given up my career and moved back home to do it. My N sister lives 5 minutes away but is never to be heard or seen, yet she tells everyone who will listen that she moved to be closer to my mother to help her (Not!). She and her N husband are after my mother’s estate, thats their true reason for moving closer. I absolutely agree, narcs are nowhere to be found when someone needs help, even if it’s a sick relative, unless they can get something out of it.
I did something similar in my family and wow, they hate me everywhere. They spread it around, I'm a horrible person, blah, blah, blah. It even got back to the town magistrate. But in the long run it payed off, I don't see any of them. It's not easy though.
In my experiences, therapists have enabled the narcissists and encouraged me to work on MY communication skills. It made the situations worse! The benefit was I realized oh...ok..this is how you are supposed to behave and communicate like adults and then it was even more clear I was being emotionally abused. I was 37 years old learning oh I can say no to something without retaliation?! Weird! I didnt need the validation from anyone anymore. Read any self esteem workbook out there and you will gain more traction than telling an aloof therapist.
I've learned to answer, "No is a complete one-word sentence." I do not need to justify myself. "But I already told him you'd do it." That's their problem, not mine. As the doctor said, I wouldn't give them a cup of coffee. Don't commit twenty hours of my time and fifty dollars of raw materials (that I'll never get paid for). If they want it done? They can do it. (Argument continues with "But...") This argument is over. Call me when you understand what no means. I've played this even on my (rather narcissistic and narcissist-enabling) parents. Insert surprised Pikachu face here for a bit, until they learned I won't be pushed around. Then it just became, "You're so MEAN, Dragon." Yes, yes, I apparently am. Sucks, doesn't it? That turned into, "Guilt just doesn't WORK on you!" No. No it doesn't. Neither does that sort of pressure, so don't even bother.
This reminds me of situation at school, when I was a kid, in which I didn't feel like helping a bully one day, but I was expected to help anyways. Instead, I was shamed for my decision of not doing so, and I still remember. As survivors we usually struggle with this "ethical" issue, specially because we are highly emphatic, then we ruminate, question ourselves, self gaslight💔 This is so important to talk about and it is very validating of our experiences. Thank you for talking about it, education is crucial💖💖💖
I totally agree. I always tried to "be the bigger person" but now when someone is mistreating me, I do speak up. I try to be polite and not hurtful, but set a boundary. Which results in backlash and I go into rumination about if I was fair. So this video is super validating. There are WAY too many enablers out there..like literally some toxic culture elements are build on this.
So true! What I hate is that I get so emotional and end up crying instead of being firm. This results in my voice not being heard. Something I need to work on to help myself set boundaries and not be made to feel bad about my decisions. So many people have coerced me to bend, "aww come on. You don't mean no."
I agree Dr R. My abusive, narcissist family treated me with complete disrespect my entire life. I would not take the high road. Sorry, not sorry. Shame me ? Walk in my shoes.
This video made me cry. I could relate so much to all that you said Dr. I have always always and always had to do all the emotional labour,expected to be the bigger person,shamed if I stood up for myself and i have borne the brunt of the double standards of the narcissist and their enablers ALL the damn time. It has left me so so angry frustrated and resentful. I have regretted abandoning myself ,my needs and wants and my hopes and aspirations to make the lives of those people better who just didn't give a damn about me. NO MORE.
Absolutely not, I'll see them get better but I wouldn't be giving any more of myself to that person, even if it was my brother, even if he needed a kidney. I agree with you.
Not to mention once your kidney is on the table, conversations can become terrible based on all those wild ethics stances the author of that paper part wrote about. Thanks for the interesting video, I think what's important is to value yourself completely and not let anyone take or guilt you into giving any of yourself because they don't need it, and when they need something they don't need it from you.
absolutely not no kidney nothing I want nothing to do with narcissist if it's your time to go time to go good bye I have a narcissistic sister and her children are narcs too myself and my children has been no contact with them goin on 3 yrs and she has health issues I told my other family members do not bring them up to me ever because I have no interest in them and if they dnt respect my boundaries they can go too sorry I just cant anymore with ppl who wants to hurt me or my children
Its so hard for EVERYONE to understand my life is healthier without my dad in it. Its even harder following his smear campaign against me. Leaving a narcissist is never easy, but always worth it. Im finally free.
I have several siblings who think that their lives, emotions and ideas are more important and should take priority. When my dad died, it became all about my sister. She acted as though she should've been the focus of everyone's sympathy. My mother, on the day of his funeral, decided it was a good time to explain to me that she never loved my father and only married him because she became pregnant and didn't think anyone else would want her. The worst story she could come up with, to describe how horrible he was to her, was about him not helping her put together a Christmas present on Christmas Eve. She actually tried to make that day about her. I followed in his footsteps by having kids with my narc ex. It resulted the same way with me being cheated on and slandered about how horrible I was. Be on guard and aware of who you're falling for.
The ethicist should have considered that the narcissist's victim probably had health problems from the stress of narcissistic abuse, shortening the victim's life.
Exactly what I was thinking! Now that I've gone no contact and been diagnosed with MS, I can easily say no. I have to save my strength and energy for me! I gave more than I reasonably could afford to already...
No I would not give the brother a kidney. Being ethical does not mean being irresponsible and quite frankly the writer’s reasoning was borderline UNethical. He stripped the brother of his autonomy in favor of the other, under the guise of “ethics”. The brother would have to live the rest of his life compensating for that missing organ, and beyond his brother not being grateful, I doubt he’d help him if he needed something as simple as a blood transfusion. And on top of it all that is assuming that the recipients body accepted the organ transplant- best match does NOT mean absolute success. In the end 2 lives might be lost versus if the donor brother kept his organ or donated it to someone else that needed it with at least some assurance that his sacrifice wouldn’t cost him his life. No one is entitled to another persons organ and I fail to see the ethics in taking a life to save another. Last resort the donor brother can decide to be an organ donor upon natural death and if his recipient brother still needs the organ, he is free to have it.
you nailed it. everyone deserves autonomy over their own bodies. authoritarians are trying to strip disadvantaged populations of their bodily autonomy on a daily basis. they see no problem with taking one life to save another, even if it means both dying. authoritarians see other people's bodies as their own personal property to direct, use, and abuse as they wish.
Well said LJ! The donor is entitled to autonomy, brother or not. No one is entitled to your organs. We are not an organ vending machines! Very well said.
My narcissistic brother who abused me from childhood developped myeloid leukaemia later in his life,I would have been prepared to give him my bone marrow had I known about it ,I left "home " as soon as I could and was sort of cut out of the "family" but now,much older and realising how cruel and toxic he could be towards me, I would say NO!
And yes Dr Ramani, we are out here starting to get it. Yourself and others sincerely try to help us, while being attacked and troped for doing it. Yes we are out here getting it and calling it out and informing the suffering who struggle. I dont watch every video anymore but I know I have to check in, and when I am in Narc zones I watch more often, to stave off having to be hyper vigilant until I can escape. Thank you so much for this one. So much.
I’ve always lived by the saying that you should treat people the way you want to be treated. After I had endured narcissistic abuse, I realized that there are exceptions to the rule. If you’re nice to a narcissist, they will only take advantage; they’ll never appreciate anything you do for them, even if it’s something as meaningful as giving them a kidney
Wow Dr Ramani this one made me feel all those horrible guilt and shame feelings come up. I pray I am never called to decide on such a terrible dilemma. The narcissist would NEVER do it for me. I can just hear all the whispers and remarks if I ever had to refuse. Social death. So many people don't understand the decades of abuse. Thank you for your priceless insight.
Funny, mine drinks like a fish and I've wondered about it.... Hopefully not compatible and he's anti-donour, all a fearful conspiracy.... That's gonna come in handy, that, and not tearing up too much at his funeral as I'll be back on the market, kidding!
If learned anything there is no dilemma, nothing to pray about, and any whispers or remarks can be boldly met with the contempt they would deserve. The answer is hell no, these evil beings do not get a kidney or life. It’s harming the world to keep these people alive to do their damage, so it would be unethical to give them a chance to continue to destroy life. Maybe they can buy one off of a dead narcissist, not somebody like an empathic type who still might have a lot of good to do.
Yes exactly 💯! ♥️ I will never give any of my toxic narcissistic parents or extended family members anything, especially a kidney. They can rot, I’ve tried so much to make things right and they continue to crap on me for nothing. I’m indifferent to all of them, they’ve hurt me so badly for so long and refuse to see their horrible ways with talking anything with me and change. I’m the only one who’s walked away and is healing from all this narcissistic abuse.
I saw this piece and didn't read it because I could tell it was going to be infuriating. Narcissists take enough and create enough psychological scars. No need to give of yourself physically and have physical scars as well.
There was an episode of Beverley Hills 90210 where one of the characters was a match for a stranger for some sort of medical treatment. After meeting the man his daughter told her that he had molested her as a child and because this character had also been molested as a child she decided not to go through with it. I was disappointed that the storyline included all the 90210 gang pressuring her to "do the right thing". She decided to do it, but luckily another match came through and she was spared having to save this man's life. It was a difficult decision made even more difficult by her friends acting like she was a petty, selfish person.
Yeah, in that case the proper answer is, "Drop dead, kiddie-*#$&er. And I dearly hope it hurts." And your friends should be cheering you on the way out.
Giving and giving to the point of damaging self-sacrifice is what I did to “improve” my relationship, before I was aware of the toxic dynamics of narcissism. So, I disagree with the ethicist, and draw the line waaaaay before organ donation.
This was excellent! Thank you Dr. Ramini for bringing this out in the open and yet again confirming the rights of the abused. So many do not understand narcissism and how really damaging it is. I didn't myself until I was in my 60's and finally "had enough" from the narcissists in my life. So much happier and at peace now.
it’s another way to manipulate victims into staying in these relationships or gaslight them by saying they’re too cold and sensitive by not helping out family, because “family is family”. I’d really love to talk more about narcissistic siblings, as I’m a mental health advocate myself. But not many people seem to want to touch this subject.
I love the way Dr. Ramini puts it. It's just "genetic bad luck" that we're related to these people. And you'd think that our siblings who experienced narcissistic abuse right alongside us would be our most empathetic allies.
I'd like to hear more as well. In many ways my narcissistic sibling has done more damage to me than my narcissistic parent. I don't know if that's because the sibling is a higher grade one than my parent, but the thing about siblings is that they know your weaknesses, embarrassing things about you, shared confidences (before you knew what they were), etc. So they have a whole lot of ammunition to hurt in the deepest way. And boy do they use it. It's a terrible betrayal of trust and really messes with mind.
To be honest, all I knew about narcissists, was that they are in love with themselves and are eager to use and trample people for their own gain. Until I discovered your channel, I had no clue about the number of types, nuances and details about the kinds of narcs there are and now I am, enlightened, so to say, about the topic. But I definitely was the person advising to be a better person and to do good/forgive/etc. Not anymore, all thanks to you and your channel. Education is key.
I was so abused my my mothers he. Forced to marry a COVID malignant narcissist...who still asks about me. Recently, my sister made the comment ...well you didn't want to hold his sweaty hand . When I said my ex was raping me and his mother was fixing him up while I was married. I realized she was a narcissist and didn't realize a life of her making comments etc. it was under the radar I am at 70 just now fully feeling my power . Now husband dead. And trying to find a whole new life ! I do have 2 successful,loving girls and now baby grands sons . All who love me. The grandsons are gifted. I am designing my home. Hopefully, find a boyfriend . Some travels What I think, maybe, someday I can use for good like you do.💝
Boy, this one really hits close to home. My family was never nice to me and always treated me as the "black sheep". I was a punching bag for my sister throughout my childhood. She physically hit me, verbally abused me, and left me stranded in a foreign country while she took off with her boyfriend. I survived all of this even though I then turned to substance abuse by the time I was 14. By the grace of God, I was able to get sober when I was 23 and pregnant with my first child - I got married and had three more children. I did not know better than to keep in contact with my entire family, because I always thought it was me and I just had to try harder and be nicer to appease them. Plus any dissension would be met with them ganging up on me. And the Christian faith also teaches us to "forgive, turn the other cheek and honor our parents". So, based on those teachings (or my faulty interpretation of them) I stuck with it all. But when my sister, who wanted to become a mom at age 42 asked me to donate and egg to her and her husband I put my foot down. The answer was "no". - I could not bear to think of that poor child facing what I had endured so many years. Thanks, Dr, Ramani for finally opening my eyes to what has happened in my life. I just want to cry all the time now- I am overwhelmed by so many emotions. But I know it will get better with time.
Thank you so much Dr Ramani! Since I’ve been following you I have been seeing myself very differently. I now know I’m not Crazy!!! I still have days, periods of time, that I still question my sanity, but I now have the tools to battle this mindset and win the battle!! I’m afraid of relationships but I know that as I heal that will heal too! For now, I’m glad to know I’m sane! Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!! I pray you are blessed! Because you have Blessed me❤️
Love this video. Family blood is not an entitlement. If you hurt me consistently, I do not want a relationship with you. I do not care if you are my parent or sibling. Using your relationship to get what you want is just manipulation. My brother in law passed in Dec. I would be seeing my father in law (narc) at the funeral ceremonies. I almost did not go. I did but just avoided him. I felt like I would be a bad wife if I did not go to support my husband during his loss.
Paula James, I think you did the right thing to go to the funeral but just avoid your father in law. I was at a similar funeral. Two narcs were there. They tried their usual games, and I ducked and dodged them. "Excuse me, I need to help with this.......need to greet so and so....." I found ways to dodge interaction with them. It worked, but I think they were surprised, as normally I would take the time to chat and be friendly.
You did the right thing . Never let them dictate where you go be yourself just don't talk to them . If you stay away from event's that you should be at you are letting them win...no way will I let them win.
@@notagain779, honestly that is one of my biggest fears. Having to show up because one of the worst narcissist dies or that I would have to face the many narcissists in my family. I avoid all family functions because so many in my family have no idea how I have been treated. Gaslighted to the Max! Actually, I am generally not informed of the functions because some DO know & they do not put me in the loop. Others probably believe whatever they have been told I'm sure. I have never called out the Narcissists. I would go, however, I would do as you. I would not be seated as family & get the heck out ASAP. I would do whatever helps ME deal with the death. Possible closer? ✌️🦋
@@cstevens8788 , I understand your situation better than you can imagine! At my father's memorial luncheon, there were place cards. My place card was with people I can't tolerate. I talked to the restaurant staff, who said it was "customary" to be seated with immediate family. I told them that I wanted to sit with friends who'd come to be supportive. I wasn't going to leave my friends alone! It took some firmness on my part to get the restaurant to change the seating. I don't care what anyone thought about that. I was able to enjoy my friends and eat my meal without indigestion. You're right: you have to do what helps YOU to deal with the death.
When I was a teenager my mom came to me and demanded I make my brother's car payment or it would be late. I had my own and other expenses too. I refused. No way could I afford to risk him not repaying me. He had harassed and bullied me my entire childhood, took his girlfriend on expensive dates, bought stuff I could not afford... so yah why would I trust him to repay before I needed the money back. My mother berated me and said then never expect it from us. Like I ever did. The only thing I expected from those 2 were name calling and harassment. Funny thing is that brother has only one kidney. Always wondered if my mom would come after me if that one failed and he needed a transplant. I feel for this subject person and wanted to say to all never ask someone's opinion on ethics like this. It's your body only your opinion matters. No one has any claim over your body in this manner. Not ever!
Recently, one of my children needed something from his narc father to help him position a broken bone (broken on a trip with his dad- taken care of by me including dealing with the doctors because he couldn't be bothered). Dad had a big hissy fit and said, "Make your mom buy one." In an age of supply issues, when he has been putting on a big financial abuse song and dance about my spending, etc. My son asked why his dad was like this. He knows dad is a narcissist, so he knows. I turned to him and said, "Well, I wouldn't think twice about giving you a kidney so I'm the wrong one to ask." So sad that ANYONE is giving that kind of advice. I wouldn't give my narc a kidney in a million years. I need a functioning body to be here to take care of my kids since I have no competent backup from another parent. It isn't about wanting revenge- but I have other priorities to focus on and I'm not willing to put myself at risk when I am needed so desperately to fill the roles he never could.
Narcissistic abuse is the reason the big power grabbers, the sexual predators and the causes of our 6th extinction event on earth. I think that, fewer narcs could help everyone everywhere. But... education is the greatest power and I have you to thank for that Dr. Ramani. I'm glad the ethicist got a bit schooled today. Thank you for being here
When my father passed away I literally "divorced" the brother I had for the same reasons. And the odacious tricks he played on me, calling me the narc when he realized I see him exactly for who he is. He screwed me out of inheritance my dad left me with too as punishment for bringing his truth to light. Now I have zero family rather than doormatting myself for the sake of having "family". The dangerous part is this same man actually gives himself out as a successful counseling therapist! If only they knew he was a child sex manipulator as well..
Report him to the police! We have a duty to report those horrible beings who harm kids. I know it's complicated because he is family, but you can do it anonymously. All the best to you.
The biggest regret in my life is that I went out of my way and spent over a hundred grand on getting my narcissistic mother on disability and into an assisted care facility instead of doing anything else with that money that would have made my life better, most of which would have included repairing damage she caused. It took a long time for me to learn that I have no obligation to a toxic person, if a narc wants a kidney too bad so sad.
The point is it's a personal choice whether to give or not. No one should be shamed and blamed for any choice they make. Someone once told me not to give if I was going to regret it later. I think that's important to consider.
Dr Ramani, you are a true beauty. Thank you. Thank you for all your hard work, sharing your education, knowledge, and you have helped, not only me, I'm sure hundred of thousands of people.
No way would I give a narcissistic sibling anything - completely agree with you Dr Ramani. They don't recognise the emotion of gratitude or the idea of giving unconditionally.
Last night I dreamed the narcissist picked a penny off the ground, stood up and held it out to me on the tip of his finger. When I reached for it, he snatched it back, laughed and walked away. The brother of the narc should tell him to pound sand. My dream describes the behavior of narcissists-they will take anything of value and walk away laughing. You don’t owe them a damned thing. Ever.
Thank you for this. I have so many gas lighters and enablers in my life it’s hard for me to make healthy choices in my life as I move forward after trauma therapy from narcissistic abuse. Totally have been taught to give give give no matter what anyone says or does. So tired of it. Such BS. Impairs healing for sure. Thank you for this video, helps me feel stronger in my resolve to find people/situations that are healthy for me. People don’t understand that I want to be somewhere I feel safe and supported. Then I question myself not sure if I am doing the right thing, but thank you for this, super helpful. 💖
Knowledge is power, understanding is wisdom. This is an educational video, it is saving lives. Wow, wow, super interesting, it is so important to get the right help in understanding and recognizing the red flags and patterns of narcissism. You take a difficult subject and turn it into an exciting interesting flowing storytelling that is easily understood by the layperson. Bless you and your beloved extended family. You are enough.
My STBX narc husband did need a kidney 7 years ago. Luckily another family member stepped up. At the time I didn’t know about narc abuse. All I know is I felt like I was already giving 150% in the relationship and didn’t feel horribly compelled to get tested to be his match. I’m 100% sure he wouldn’t have given me a kidney. Several mutual friends who had considered stepping up have told me now how glad they are they weren’t his donor. At the time I had some guilt for not wanting to be his donor. I now understand why I felt the way I did.
I started practicing no contact just after I visited with my dying mother. She had been slowly going out after battling 15 years of dementia . I said my goodbyes and expressed my appreciation to her. Then I decided not to attend her funeral and instead I climbed the biggest mountain I could find to be close to her on the day of her funeral , my profile image is taken the day of my mother’s funeral. Needless to say, my narc siblings used this against me and it’s helped with no contact.
Interesting. I have no desire to attend either of my parents' funerals, not even to be there for my brother n his kids. Definitely to not be near my narc sister n all of the parents friends that sexually abused me when younger. It would b pure hell. Glad to hear that you were so strong to do that n that I'm not alone in wanting to do this
From a medical standpoint it is also important that it‘s not only the immediate risk of surgery but also that the donor‘s body is losing something it needs and relies on. Usually the donors‘ physiology needs some time to learn to balance with just one kidney. Thank you for this video and your commentary on this article.
Special Claim?!? Holy crap! This advice columnist is an uninformed person. This “ethics dude” is saying so many of the things that my enabler mother and narc father have said to me over my 55 yrs.
There it is again!!!! We are literally being conditioned to accept and tolerate the narcissists… there’s a concerted effort across all disciplines to get us to compromise ourselves for their benefit. WHY?!?!?
Such a profound example! After I left my abusive husband it was expected that I would be 100% responsible for our kids. (It did end up working out that way) I actually told a friend that if one of my kids needed a kidney it would be assumed that I'd enthusiastically get right up on that operation table. Even in this hypothetical example I could hear his voice making the snarky comment "You're so selfish for not giving BOTH kidneys!"
No major national newspapers have particularly good ethics in the first place. I'm so frustrated by how those of us who aren't narcissists are expected to have endless empathy and magnanimity towards people who do. not. deserve it. And frankly, I wouldn't piss on my Narcissist brother if he was on fire.
I was raised by a narcissistic mother, married a narcissistic man, have a narcissistic son. It took me better part of my life to step out from underneath their abusive control. My career BTW was in mental health! If our current culture were summarized as a person, it would be a narcissist. So no surprise we find them in every part of our culture: doctors, nurses, managers, priests and pastors. That said, there is an appropriate time and place for mercy and grace that has nothing to do with self-agrandissement with virtue nor with appeasing the narcissist.
One reason may be that the above named occupations require college and Colleges and Universities and Graduate schools are hotbeds for narcissism. Professors can be mean and arrogant. Nursing instructors can be Mean.
@@MrNeptunebob just don’t shine. Shut up and ace The tests and look like a nerd, so The stupid narx won’t notice you. If you’re wealthy, hide it, if you’re beautiful, in or out, hide both
You are my life changer Dr Ramani. I was always in this ethical dilemma all my life about a sibling - until 3 months back when my counsellor shared the link of your videos. And this one, I must compliment you, is yet another guiding light. Thank you...
On top of that, a kidney usually only lasts about 5 years before the person will need another one. The narcissistic sibling would go back to the empath brother and ask for the only kidney the empath sibling has.
I’m glad I’m at the point where I can say ‘No’ (to a kidney donation or anything) without remorse. Most of the narcissists in my life know better to come to me for anything let alone a human organ. They can’t restore the health problems I have from the stress they caused. Ethical my ass!
The abusive system only works if there are enablers. If there aren’t any enablers then the abuser is powerless. It’s the enablers that maintain the abusive system. The ethical expert is just another enabler.
4:05”Genetic bad luck” ! You’re vocabulary is a golden treasure, dr Ramani! I feel somewhat relieved by this expression. Thank you for cranking up the audio volume some!
That “special claim” phrase is the BANE of a child of narcissistic abuse. It took 34 years to realize that nothing I did would be enough to be loveable after fulfilling all those special claims and being “ethical” and the bigger person who essentially enabling the narcissism until I fell apart, and was expected to keep going and keep falling apart. Thank you so much for sharing this. This is the validation I needed.
Dr. I’ve soon so many of your videos but find myself so stuck.. learning and so grateful for what you do. I find myself going in circles on what I should do to make things in the house more comfortable, but get frustrated w myself cause I’ve taken care of everyone else, or try to help everyone else. And forgot myself. Sometimes I think what if I am the 1 that’s narcissistic, and just being ugly.
TOUGH QUESTION… and I agree that if a kidney was given that the narc would not be gracious or thankful. And they definitely won’t change. I think it comes down to who we are as our own individual, our character, our belief system, and where we are on our healing journey. Me personally? I have narcissistic blood family, father and sister. I think I’d struggle with this snd maybe help out. Idk. However… my malignant narcissistic demon ex? F$&Ck NO NEVER NOT A CHANCE. Honestly, I’d have trouble just trying to not celebrate that the this disgusting calculated abuser was finally getting what they deserve. Great topic.
Thank you for your passionate defense of those that have to deal with this kind of bs shaming...it's so prevalent. I hope that man read the comments section and decided NOT to donate a kidney to his brother. Or that he somehow finds this video before he agrees to it..
Give my kidney? That's a hard no. There's a limit to how much any person needs to feel obligated to give. Another huge concern is that organ donation are not risk-free. Although uncommon, there are donors who have experienced significant health complications afterward. Another factor to consider.
I wouldn't say yes or no, it's not my life to live, but you are totally correct, why didn't (and perhaps he did) the newspaper ethicist question the ethics (or even the legality) of pressuring his brother for a kidney?
Exactly. The recipient almost immediately feels better, and the donor has a long painful recovery -- and is now one kidney short. The author of the NYT article obviously has no experience with narcissism. Or maybe the author is one. Who knows.
It's nice to see Dr.Ramani's Channel is growing fast. There are many videos talking about Narcissism but Doctor Ramani is the unicorn who has collected so many first-hand materials and also genuinely cares about everyone. You can feel that from her words, her enthusiasm, and her caring nature. Thank you, Dr. Ramani for being such a light to us!!
The idea of /anyone/ having a special claim to another person actively set something off in me. I’d bet that mentality is why some parents think their children are possessions, not responsibilities. A “special claim.” It’s so toxic it reminds me of any faith that says our body is on loan to us from a divine presence, preventing someone from fully embracing a healthy exploration of that natural drive for self-sufficiency and self-servitude. Empathy and love are inventive and nurturing forces, but if that love doesn’t flow inward some of the time, it will leave someone completely drained... whether or not someone else is trying to steal from their emotional well.
Thank you for your brilliant, compassionate take on this situation. I've also read advice from a certain ethicist, and I've often been taken aback by the advice given - plenty of pressure to see one's emotional needs and vulnerabilities as selfishness. You are courageous and caring for calling it out, and your work is very important.
100% NO! I would not cross the road to see my narcissist sibling, let alone give a kidney! In most situations, I turn it round, would they do the same for me? Most of the time the answer is no, so I stick to this method in my life! People are out for themselves, you have to put yourself first, not selfish, self preservation!
Quite agree with you Dr. Ramani, It sure is a big decision to make even if you liked your sibling with it carrying such high risks but to an ungrateful narssicist sibling who won'tt be grateful & will carry on mistreating him, definitely not.
"A special claim within the family?" Hell, NO! Unfortunately, this was how we were "programmed" growing up. To be the bigger person. That is all well and good, but ALL narcissists EXCLUDED.
Thank you for your intelligent, passionate, and evidence-based support for victims of narcissism. Calling out the enabling is only going to have credibility when made by people of your professional, personal, and community stature. I really appreciate your dedication to this issue.
It is always more difficult or impossible to get a narcissist to accommodate so ethicists, parents, bosses, teachers, family or friends coerce, guilt, or simply convince the person struggling with an ethical dilemma to change, accept abuse, or make up for the shortcomings of a narcissist. I believe that it's much easier to enable narcissists especially when someone else is the one "footing the bill." Thank you yet again for your reassurance and reality check.
I was told to be the bigger person all the time. My narcissistic mother told me that about my kindergarden and school bullies, my environment told me that about my narcissistic parents, later my sibling and my half-siblings told me that when I finally went no contact.
I'm the bigger person, so I grit my teeth all the time, freeze when I should defend myself and I had dreams for YEARS about being unable to defend myself from these people. In these dreams I usually can't slap hard enough or my mouth is stuffed with cotton wool or I have the humiliating experience that water is floating out of my mouth with no end and I can't speak. Or later, I yell my throat out, it hurts, but I barely make any sound. These dreams made me realize how helpless I became by always being the "better" person in a conflict. In the past months when those dreams returned, sometimes I was able to spill out some sentences at least or give a moderately good slap in the face to someone who hurt me. So I'm making progress at least in my head I'd say.
But I still have regrets about being this so-called "better" person in the past just to make the life of my narcissist's, bullies and enablers easier.
This is SO much my experience. My mother always did the same thing, and now I freeze in conflicts, particularly with strangers. My personal nightmare is I have dreams where I warn everyone of danger but nobody pays attention, like they can't even hear me.
I have had similar dreams my whole life! I scream as hard as I can and no sound comes out. Such intense frustration!
I spent my entire childhood and teenage years havong nightmares. Most of them were just like the ones you describe. But I have only recently understood where they all came from.
Oh I hate the "be the bigger person" phrase! I was bullied a lot especially in middle school and was told that crap. Adults called me "strong" or a "good person" for just putting up with sh*t. It was gaslighting.
Go see the “Inspire Nation” channel on Automatic Writing with Michael. It may help you get that stuff out and onto paper, so you can get some relief, by expressing your feeling there. And hug yourself daily, for as along as you need to feel comforted. Make it a big hug. You deserve it! All the best to you Lex!
"Be the bigger person"= "just shut up and comply"...I strongly believe that the non-narcissist individual already is the bigger person due to the fact that s/he is not the one out there abusing the emotion of others. One does not have to open themselves to blatant leeching to be a good person and it will be very difficult for us to adopt this outlook on narcissism unless we realize that enablers are not just casual commenters or passive well-wishers but accomplices to the narcissistic abuse. Unless we identify and hold them responsible as such, we, as a society will keep producing narcissistic abusers with their enabling yes-wo/men who will continue to support the pillars that keep the narcissist standing while evading all blames for their own actions.
Creepy
I believe President Joe Biden took your advice recently when he suggested many republicans are aligned with the ghost of Jefferson Davis.
Amen. I have no qualms with calling out enablers for dismissing abuse 💯 They are perpetrating by way of perpetuating. They are manipulators just the same. Peace and Health
When it comes to a narcissist, I wouldn't even present my bare ass to them to kiss because I don't want their toxic slime all over my butt.
Your statements have some truth to them but the way you present your concept has no need to take aim and blame those who have been deeply victimized by one or many narcs in their lives. Not all survivers are able or ready to think in such a manor or may never wish to treat others harshly. I advocate holding narcs accountable for their actions. We as individuals and a larger society need strategies that are not just defensive and self protective in nature such as avoidance or gray rock. There is a time and need for those tactics during active abuse and need to survive. However, one only gets to a place of pro-active responses towards narcs long after they've been able to process their own situations and gain some personal ground. To call them out for being trapped and forced to endure abuses until such time as they can take other steps is unwarranted. Many on this site have been abused to the degree of being physically over powered or have been lured into traps that cost their mental and physical health. BTW not all persons subjected to abuse are enablers. There are many who were dupped into relations by the chameleons they encountered, and later, forcibly trapped. Some were born the child of narc parents and systematically abused from birth. The variety of ways narcs abuse can never be all accounted for. Partly because narcs grow and adapt their behaviors after having been confronted. Some will even wait years before enacting revenge on survivers for having the audacity to wound them. Meanwhile they polish their abilities and acting skills on those around them while also still learning. Some by watching YT videos or visiting narcissitic web sites.
My immediate response is HELL no & my narcissist is my identical twin sister. She has NO special claim to me or anything in my body!
I have lost a big chunk of my heart & have heard the be the bigger person BS from my family. Family has been more upset by me going no contact than what she has done to me for decades.
I will not be minimized again.
You Dr Ramani, helped me go no contact & changed my world. My twin has really kick up her toxicity but through you....I'm grey rocking & sticking to my boundaries!! Much love 💜
🔥🔥💯
I feel your pain 😞 I to live in Oregon hi neighbor😉
@@catherinepraus8635 👋
How shocking that it’s your identical twin! Good on you for literally being the better person
Having the narcissist be your identical twin must add yet another layer of pain that the rest of us haven't felt. What should be the person most like you -- the one who celebrates your triumphs and supports you in your disappointments -- is the one who actually minimizes or ignores your triumphs and secretly (or perhaps not so secretly) delights in your pain. So sad. Yes, she's still alive, but I feel like this is appropriate: Sorry for your loss. You were robbed of a sister, a friend, a confidant, and a partner in crime.
Simply, “No”. No rewarding abusers. Ignorance of narcissism is propagating abuse. This channel is life education ✨
Well said 👍
Exactly. That no always comes at a price, but it's worth it. Stick up for yourself.
🙌🏽
Ten years ago I turned down an abusive, narcissistic, golden child sibling’s request for financial assistance and I still feel so good and proud for sticking up for myself. If I had known how much mileage I would have received from doing that I would have started years and years ago.
YAAAAAY YOU!!
Bravo.it took me years and literally thousands of dollars to say no.then I was cutoff.gaslit.subjected to a smear campaign and verbal abuse.
Hans that's so good. Sometimes I think if I just could say NO I'd be so much better off. All I had done was say nothing as I always felt paralysed. I've haven't seen my abusive mother for almost 2 years and it's helping me to gain much needed strength.
!!!Applause!!!
No.. No.. No and there is no other words to say
Disengaging from people who are harming you whether it is your Sister, brother, aunt, vousin, neighbour, friend, clients, doctor or any other abusive one is an act of self-respect, self-preservation and maturity in which we respectfully acknowledge the right to freedom of choice for the abusive other as well as ourselves. Thank you for your words of reason and common sense in today’s world dr Ramani. God bless you❤
At first when I asked myself: "Would you give your toxic narcissistic sister a kidney?" I felt guilt. I felt that it is MY responsibility to give. But then I asked myself "Would my sister give me a kidney?". Well... That clarified everything because I am sure that she would never do that. That was the moment of change, I stoped feeling guilty. I am still healing. Thank you so much for this video.
I’m done with people trying to give me the guilt trip. I will never again let anyone do that to me. 7 years I dealt with my narcissist ex. We have a child together & I’m stuck with him for the rest of my life 🥴😞😢😩
I would never, in a million years!!!
And *I don’t care* how that makes
me sound because I feel GREAT!
Amen! I had a therapist tell me that I should have compassion for my narc, and it make me feel like such crap. My life was falling apart and I am expected to just be okay with someone who was supposed to be my friend gossiping about me, isolating me, devaluing me, etc. I never went back to that therapist!
I'm glad you cut off such therapist. My previous therapists are also unempathic and lack knowledge of dysfunctional relationship so I terminated therapy.
Glad you left promptly! I am amazed at the number of therapists I have met who have NO CLUE about personality disorders.
@@a.k.7424 A lot of them HAVE personality disorders themselves and get into the profession because it makes them feel superior to others.
Same here, My therapist for 8 years was in some how pushing me to work on the relationship... I tried for 2 years, even if I knew since the beginning that that was toxic, the last talk with my therapist was so strong I told him " I am not a lab rat for your social experiment, there's my life in the middle I CAN'T risk " (because my ex narc boyfriend was coming from a third world country) and than I cut the contact with my therapist and that was the time I broke up with my ex boyfriend.
These comments contain great amd very real insights into what can be damaging input from a professional …. in the mental health field we need much more awareness and education regarding this issue … a personality disorder is NOT in fact an mental ‘illness’ that can be ‘cured’ in the sense that is not a temporary condition but is a character trait whatever the origin of the disorder might be…. There are some of us in the field who do understand and continue to seek additional training and knowledge so we might not harm persons that are coming into therapy to seek real healing and support.
There is controversy among professionals in the mental health field regarding whether some cluster B disorders are amenable to treatment IF the individual has the desire and some ability to stay with therapy and willingness to focus upon how they affect the world around them but that is not to say it is likely to see such a person become completely free of the disorder .
But the journey they take is their own and must not be predicated upon other people around them enabling or accommodating their negative and often destructive behaviors…
I’m sad for the persons who commented above about having had an experience in therapy that was possibly more damaging to their sense of emotional safety and trust than it was therapeutic.
After the childhood I've had with my big brother, I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire. While we were both victims of narcissistic abuse, he took out a lot of his anger and feelings of powerlessness on me. Now we're adults and he's married doing the exact same thing to his wife and stepchildren.
Exact same thing.
Likewise.
I would piss on my narcissists if they weren't on fire.
That's really sad!! Now his family has to suffer!!!
@@bobtaylor170 I'd probably throw my paint water on mine as well.
😫 This was me an enabler to the core of me. I use to be a flying monkey for many narcissists. I feel so bad for enabling making excuses for narcissists bad behavior. Trying to see the good in them. I couldn’t understand why I could never have a good relationship, why my friends were using their darkness on me. I literally had to cut off my family and friends they were all narcissists to get to my mess of enabling and to heal. Now I’m no contact and they are all frantic. I hate that I enabled all of them. I’m alone and it’s my choice too.
This reads like a cautionary tale or a dark fable, The Kidney and The Narcissist. It’s a brilliant illustration of the horrors and devastation caused by the enabling of narcissistic behavior. In the tale, the sibling would read the article, feel shamed, give the kidney and suffer years of complications at the hands of his own body and those of the narcissist.
Omg 😳 right! So true
So true!
It seems it will take a really long time for this world to deal appropriately with narcissists and the abuse they inflict on others,if ever, we are living in a world where narcissism is encouraged on social media and narcissists lauded,and
"hight moral ground" so called "experts" who have never experienced that kind of abuse will continue to pile guilt on the victims while totally ignoring the aberrant behaviour of perpetrators,saying we must "forgive" that forgiveness heals all,what a lot of rot!
@@yvettevernet4759 My hope is that as Dr Ramani helps train a new generation of therapists and educates the layman, the tide will change in important ways. I never hoped someone with her skillset and personal experience would come along. I know I'm not the only one to feel the epic sense of relief that at least *one* person in the whole world is able to see the full picture. My dream is that we write the end of the story together; without narcissistic supply, those who require it will be starved out. Like at the zoo, "do not feed the animals".
@@NellyBlyAlibi We can only hope,but at least some people will be educated about it.It will take a very long time for "society" to wake up to narcissists,mostly because those who lead and have "high profile' got there because they are narcissists with an iron determination and not caring what it took to acquire fame and power.
Of course Dr. Ramani is genius-level helping us, but her little attitude in this video is helping me stop ruminating by her cuteness alone!! National treasure.
Iv actually seen this flipped! The empathetic brother needed a kidney from the highly malignant narcissist sister, she refused to give hers! So you are right, why should we be the better person? It isn't teaching anything but that we can be walked on.
And that's exactly why the answer is an automatic no.
Ironically, my communal narcissist sister more than likely WOULD give me her spare kidney if I went into surgery if she was the perfect donor. BUT only so that she could (yet again like everything else in her life) look like such a cool, tough, brave, generous, altruistic bad *ss to everyone and to lord it over me for the rest of my life ontop of everything else she's ever "done for me" and I'd have to grovel and worship her for it. And if I didn't, she'd be able to play the victim to everyone else about what a huge sacrifice she gave for me, just to be "repaid" with a selfish, ungrateful younger sister who can't even be bothered to come over to her house to hang out (to get bullied and degraded) or help her out now and then (sister slave labor).
Everything, EVERYTHING is transactional with that woman, NOTHING is done purely out of love or true family loyalty, and the price I pay for her "help" is always much higher than the "favor" or "gift" cost me to receive. I'll take dying on the operating table over taking a kidney transplant from the biggest bully of my entire life aside from my narc father and ex step mother and ex step nephew. Honestly, after all the horrible bullsh*t I've dealt with from them they can all go to h*ll and find someone else to pick on if I died. But knowing them, those vultures would probably still be preying on my energy post-mortem about what a "terrible" person I always was and how "sad" it is that I never "appreciated" them and everything they "did for me my whole life" and how I squandered all of my "potential" to live up to their expectations of me. Sick b*st*rds.
Sadly, we have come to the place where "being the better person" is passive compliance with evil. Being good is neither passive nor compliant.
@@PassionateFlower transaction is fine. Slave is not
Thank you Dr. RAMANI for always validating those who have suffered abuse.
Just imagine giving up your "spare" kidney to a narcissist and then be in the position of a parent whose child needs one...
La Signora Pianissima, That's a really good point you make.
That’s a twisted way to think. It’s the excuse a narcissist would give for not donating
@@M_SC I disagree with your take.
It is what a narcissist might say, but they wouldn't give it to their kid, either.
What's important is that the narcissist might accept it as the NO it is.
@@M_SC I think you misunderstand my point, which is the right we all have to choose and the obligation to do so wisely. Any family member could be in the said narcissist's place of need of a transplant but not all family members are equal in a person's life. We need to think twice... Plus, it's not like there's no other match in the world. Choosing to say no won't kill the narcissist in need of the transplant...
@@M_SC It's not twisted. And no one needs an excuse to keep their own body part.
Yay Dr. Ramani!!!! Zero tolerance for enablers!!!
That "special claim" line was infuriating. NO SUCH THING!! Agree with you 100 percent Doctor.
"Special claim" starts to ring of "slavery." Which the narcissist would enjoy, I'm sure.
Hi! I have my MS in medical ethics and getting my doctorate this summer. YOU HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO ANYONE. The organ is a gift not an expectation. obligating someone to burdens robs them of agency and autonomy. This made my head explode
Thank you for pulling me back to reality, Dr. Ramani. Just hearing the scenario made me anxious, and my knee-jerk response was, yes, I’d give the kidney. How could I not? And THAT, my friends, is why I was stuck for so many years in a relationship that was slowly killing me.
No more.
@Becky Fargo I'm so happy for you, that you got out!! 💜
Very happy for you 😃
BINGO!!!
My brother recently lost his only 25 year old son in a motorcycle accident. At the funeral our malignant narcissistic mother, who he went no contact 3 years ago, was rudely talking loudly on her phone and to her husband during the service even after my brother told her to stop. She then proceeded to try to hug my brother and when he refused and extended his hand instead she slapped his hand away and she also told my deceased nephew’s mom that my brother prevented her from seeing him and now he is dead. These were a few of the things she said and did so, NO! I wouldn’t donate my kidney to a narcissist and I wouldn’t feel bad.
"Be the better person" and "do the right thing" were very self-serving directives of my N. parent and sibling. The lesson was really more "do as I say not as I do." This question of ethics has always proved to be the fertile ground that kept me stuck first in ignorance and now, burdened by the guilt of doing what's "right." Interestingly, the care of my elderly N. parent has fallen 100 % on my shoulders while my N. sibling, doesn't experience any guilt of conscience at being a no-show. They weave a different story for the public but the truth is, for narcissists, they're ghosts when life gets tough or messy,
Bingo!!! You hit the nail right on the head - you have to be the "bigger" person while they do whatever they want to do without conscience or guilt.
Very true!……
2 sets of rules and they don't even follow their smallest/basic human ones!
@@joseenoel8093 yeah, I always wondered about that. They especially don’t like being given a taste of their own medicine either.
Omg, I’m in the exact situation as you. I’m now looking after my elderly narcissistic mother and I’ve given up my career and moved back home to do it. My N sister lives 5 minutes away but is never to be heard or seen, yet she tells everyone who will listen that she moved to be closer to my mother to help her (Not!). She and her N husband are after my mother’s estate, thats their true reason for moving closer. I absolutely agree, narcs are nowhere to be found when someone needs help, even if it’s a sick relative, unless they can get something out of it.
I feel as if I am the only person who sees through the constant shaming of emaths... thank you for showing that I am not alone.
I did something similar in my family and wow, they hate me everywhere. They spread it around, I'm a horrible person, blah, blah, blah. It even got back to the town magistrate. But in the long run it payed off, I don't see any of them. It's not easy though.
It’s never easy but well worth doing. Congratulations on your NC.
@@abowling5759 Thank you so much for that comment.
@@literaine6550 you’re welcome!…good luck on your healing journey ♥️
In my experiences, therapists have enabled the narcissists and encouraged me to work on MY communication skills. It made the situations worse! The benefit was I realized oh...ok..this is how you are supposed to behave and communicate like adults and then it was even more clear I was being emotionally abused. I was 37 years old learning oh I can say no to something without retaliation?! Weird! I didnt need the validation from anyone anymore. Read any self esteem workbook out there and you will gain more traction than telling an aloof therapist.
Those effing 'therapists' do such damage.
I've learned to answer, "No is a complete one-word sentence." I do not need to justify myself.
"But I already told him you'd do it." That's their problem, not mine. As the doctor said, I wouldn't give them a cup of coffee. Don't commit twenty hours of my time and fifty dollars of raw materials (that I'll never get paid for). If they want it done? They can do it.
(Argument continues with "But...") This argument is over. Call me when you understand what no means. I've played this even on my (rather narcissistic and narcissist-enabling) parents. Insert surprised Pikachu face here for a bit, until they learned I won't be pushed around. Then it just became, "You're so MEAN, Dragon." Yes, yes, I apparently am. Sucks, doesn't it? That turned into, "Guilt just doesn't WORK on you!" No. No it doesn't. Neither does that sort of pressure, so don't even bother.
My family doctor told me to make my narc employee my best friend and just do everything she wanted and then the abuse from her would stop! SMH!🤦♀️
@@trying2survive602 That's why she's a family doctor and not a psychologist. lol
This reminds me of situation at school, when I was a kid, in which I didn't feel like helping a bully one day, but I was expected to help anyways. Instead, I was shamed for my decision of not doing so, and I still remember. As survivors we usually struggle with this "ethical" issue, specially because we are highly emphatic, then we ruminate, question ourselves, self gaslight💔 This is so important to talk about and it is very validating of our experiences. Thank you for talking about it, education is crucial💖💖💖
That makes me mad! The bully should learn a lesson. I think the expectation to help would make someone feel resentful.
I totally agree. I always tried to "be the bigger person" but now when someone is mistreating me, I do speak up. I try to be polite and not hurtful, but set a boundary. Which results in backlash and I go into rumination about if I was fair. So this video is super validating. There are WAY too many enablers out there..like literally some toxic culture elements are build on this.
So true! What I hate is that I get so emotional and end up crying instead of being firm. This results in my voice not being heard. Something I need to work on to help myself set boundaries and not be made to feel bad about my decisions. So many people have coerced me to bend, "aww come on. You don't mean no."
@@easygii Yes, 100%. Thanks for the reply❤
@@trying2survive602 I can relate, I understand. Thanks for sharing your story💜
“ genetic bad luck “ wow, I am claiming this from now on 😂❣️ it’s perfect.
I agree Dr R. My abusive, narcissist family treated me with complete disrespect my entire life.
I would not take the high road. Sorry, not sorry.
Shame me ? Walk in my shoes.
This video made me cry. I could relate so much to all that you said Dr. I have always always and always had to do all the emotional labour,expected to be the bigger person,shamed if I stood up for myself and i have borne the brunt of the double standards of the narcissist and their enablers ALL the damn time. It has left me so so angry frustrated and resentful. I have regretted abandoning myself ,my needs and wants and my hopes and aspirations to make the lives of those people better who just didn't give a damn about me.
NO MORE.
Absolutely not, I'll see them get better but I wouldn't be giving any more of myself to that person, even if it was my brother, even if he needed a kidney. I agree with you.
Not to mention once your kidney is on the table, conversations can become terrible based on all those wild ethics stances the author of that paper part wrote about. Thanks for the interesting video, I think what's important is to value yourself completely and not let anyone take or guilt you into giving any of yourself because they don't need it, and when they need something they don't need it from you.
Yup. Couldn’t agree more!
Most definitely would not give an NPD assistance, intead allow them to live with the reality they've cultivated.
absolutely not no kidney nothing I want nothing to do with narcissist if it's your time to go time to go good bye I have a narcissistic sister and her children are narcs too myself and my children has been no contact with them goin on 3 yrs and she has health issues I told my other family members do not bring them up to me ever because I have no interest in them and if they dnt respect my boundaries they can go too sorry I just cant anymore with ppl who wants to hurt me or my children
@@luvphoenix956 All the best; IF, I understand what you're saying!?
Not just no, but HELL no!! They can find one from some other supply!!
You nailed this! Absolutely agree
Its so hard for EVERYONE to understand my life is healthier without my dad in it. Its even harder following his smear campaign against me. Leaving a narcissist is never easy, but always worth it. Im finally free.
I have several siblings who think that their lives, emotions and ideas are more important and should take priority. When my dad died, it became all about my sister. She acted as though she should've been the focus of everyone's sympathy. My mother, on the day of his funeral, decided it was a good time to explain to me that she never loved my father and only married him because she became pregnant and didn't think anyone else would want her. The worst story she could come up with, to describe how horrible he was to her, was about him not helping her put together a Christmas present on Christmas Eve. She actually tried to make that day about her. I followed in his footsteps by having kids with my narc ex. It resulted the same way with me being cheated on and slandered about how horrible I was. Be on guard and aware of who you're falling for.
The ethicist should have considered that the narcissist's victim probably had health problems from the stress of narcissistic abuse, shortening the victim's life.
Exactly what I was thinking! Now that I've gone no contact and been diagnosed with MS, I can easily say no. I have to save my strength and energy for me! I gave more than I reasonably could afford to already...
@@atanamorell2 Yes, after 33 years of giving, I had chronic fatigue syndrome and adrenal exhaustion.
No I would not give the brother a kidney. Being ethical does not mean being irresponsible and quite frankly the writer’s reasoning was borderline UNethical. He stripped the brother of his autonomy in favor of the other, under the guise of “ethics”. The brother would have to live the rest of his life compensating for that missing organ, and beyond his brother not being grateful, I doubt he’d help him if he needed something as simple as a blood transfusion. And on top of it all that is assuming that the recipients body accepted the organ transplant- best match does NOT mean absolute success. In the end 2 lives might be lost versus if the donor brother kept his organ or donated it to someone else that needed it with at least some assurance that his sacrifice wouldn’t cost him his life. No one is entitled to another persons organ and I fail to see the ethics in taking a life to save another. Last resort the donor brother can decide to be an organ donor upon natural death and if his recipient brother still needs the organ, he is free to have it.
you nailed it. everyone deserves autonomy over their own bodies. authoritarians are trying to strip disadvantaged populations of their bodily autonomy on a daily basis. they see no problem with taking one life to save another, even if it means both dying. authoritarians see other people's bodies as their own personal property to direct, use, and abuse as they wish.
Well said LJ! The donor is entitled to autonomy, brother or not. No one is entitled to your organs. We are not an organ vending machines! Very well said.
being an organ donor upon death with a narc sibling is risky bro. you might end up having a freak or mysterious accident.
My narcissistic brother who abused me from childhood developped myeloid leukaemia later in his life,I would have been prepared to give him my bone marrow had I known about it ,I left "home " as soon as I could and was sort of cut out of the "family" but now,much older and realising how cruel and toxic he could be towards me, I would say NO!
interesting
I think you should write a letter to the editor about that column. People will be harmed by what that “ethicist” said
Agree,that would help many people.
And yes Dr Ramani, we are out here starting to get it. Yourself and others sincerely try to help us, while being attacked and troped for doing it. Yes we are out here getting it and calling it out and informing the suffering who struggle. I dont watch every video anymore but I know I have to check in, and when I am in Narc zones I watch more often, to stave off having to be hyper vigilant until I can escape. Thank you so much for this one. So much.
I’ve always lived by the saying that you should treat people the way you want to be treated. After I had endured narcissistic abuse, I realized that there are exceptions to the rule. If you’re nice to a narcissist, they will only take advantage; they’ll never appreciate anything you do for them, even if it’s something as meaningful as giving them a kidney
Wow Dr Ramani this one made me feel all those horrible guilt and shame feelings come up. I pray I am never called to decide on such a terrible dilemma. The narcissist would NEVER do it for me. I can just hear all the whispers and remarks if I ever had to refuse. Social death. So many people don't understand the decades of abuse. Thank you for your priceless insight.
The people who watch these videos do. I struggled with this one also.
Funny, mine drinks like a fish and I've wondered about it.... Hopefully not compatible and he's anti-donour, all a fearful conspiracy.... That's gonna come in handy, that, and not tearing up too much at his funeral as I'll be back on the market, kidding!
If learned anything there is no dilemma, nothing to pray about, and any whispers or remarks can be boldly met with the contempt they would deserve. The answer is hell no, these evil beings do not get a kidney or life. It’s harming the world to keep these people alive to do their damage, so it would be unethical to give them a chance to continue to destroy life. Maybe they can buy one off of a dead narcissist, not somebody like an empathic type who still might have a lot of good to do.
Yes exactly 💯! ♥️ I will never give any of my toxic narcissistic parents or extended family members anything, especially a kidney. They can rot, I’ve tried so much to make things right and they continue to crap on me for nothing. I’m indifferent to all of them, they’ve hurt me so badly for so long and refuse to see their horrible ways with talking anything with me and change. I’m the only one who’s walked away and is healing from all this narcissistic abuse.
I saw this piece and didn't read it because I could tell it was going to be infuriating. Narcissists take enough and create enough psychological scars. No need to give of yourself physically and have physical scars as well.
There was an episode of Beverley Hills 90210 where one of the characters was a match for a stranger for some sort of medical treatment. After meeting the man his daughter told her that he had molested her as a child and because this character had also been molested as a child she decided not to go through with it. I was disappointed that the storyline included all the 90210 gang pressuring her to "do the right thing". She decided to do it, but luckily another match came through and she was spared having to save this man's life. It was a difficult decision made even more difficult by her friends acting like she was a petty, selfish person.
Yeah, in that case the proper answer is, "Drop dead, kiddie-*#$&er. And I dearly hope it hurts." And your friends should be cheering you on the way out.
The right thing to do:
= let molestors *die*
Appreciate you Dr Ramani and love your passion on this subject matter!
Giving and giving to the point of damaging self-sacrifice is what I did to “improve” my relationship, before I was aware of the toxic dynamics of narcissism. So, I disagree with the ethicist, and draw the line waaaaay before organ donation.
Absolutely no, one less abusive person in this world to hurt people.
This was excellent!
Thank you Dr. Ramini for bringing this out in the open and yet again confirming the rights of the abused.
So many do not understand narcissism and how really damaging it is. I didn't myself until I was in my 60's and finally "had enough" from the narcissists in my life.
So much happier and at peace now.
Me too! Better late than never! The peace is good 👍
it’s another way to manipulate victims into staying in these relationships or gaslight them by saying they’re too cold and sensitive by not helping out family, because “family is family”.
I’d really love to talk more about narcissistic siblings, as I’m a mental health advocate myself. But not many people seem to want to touch this subject.
I love the way Dr. Ramini puts it. It's just "genetic bad luck" that we're related to these people. And you'd think that our siblings who experienced narcissistic abuse right alongside us would be our most empathetic allies.
I hate that catch cry. "Family is family". Nah you have to earn that in my books
@@tierraalston-johnson6003 yes and especially when you also get half/step siblings come into the mix. It’s awful!
I'd like to hear more as well. In many ways my narcissistic sibling has done more damage to me than my narcissistic parent. I don't know if that's because the sibling is a higher grade one than my parent, but the thing about siblings is that they know your weaknesses, embarrassing things about you, shared confidences (before you knew what they were), etc. So they have a whole lot of ammunition to hurt in the deepest way. And boy do they use it. It's a terrible betrayal of trust and really messes with mind.
oh yes family is family. It such a big societal pressure
To be honest, all I knew about narcissists, was that they are in love with themselves and are eager to use and trample people for their own gain. Until I discovered your channel, I had no clue about the number of types, nuances and details about the kinds of narcs there are and now I am, enlightened, so to say, about the topic. But I definitely was the person advising to be a better person and to do good/forgive/etc. Not anymore, all thanks to you and your channel. Education is key.
I was so abused my my mothers he. Forced to marry a COVID malignant narcissist...who still asks about me.
Recently, my sister made the comment ...well you didn't want to hold his sweaty hand . When I said my ex was raping me and his mother was fixing him up while I was married.
I realized she was a narcissist and didn't realize a life of her making comments etc. it was under the radar
I am at 70 just now fully feeling my power .
Now husband dead. And trying to find a whole new life !
I do have 2 successful,loving girls and now baby grands sons . All who love me. The grandsons are gifted.
I am designing my home.
Hopefully, find a boyfriend .
Some travels
What I think, maybe, someday I can use for good like you do.💝
Boy, this one really hits close to home. My family was never nice to me and always treated me as the "black sheep". I was a punching bag for my sister throughout my childhood. She physically hit me, verbally abused me, and left me stranded in a foreign country while she took off with her boyfriend. I survived all of this even though I then turned to substance abuse by the time I was 14. By the grace of God, I was able to get sober when I was 23 and pregnant with my first child - I got married and had three more children. I did not know better than to keep in contact with my entire family, because I always thought it was me and I just had to try harder and be nicer to appease them. Plus any dissension would be met with them ganging up on me. And the Christian faith also teaches us to "forgive, turn the other cheek and honor our parents". So, based on those teachings (or my faulty interpretation of them) I stuck with it all. But when my sister, who wanted to become a mom at age 42 asked me to donate and egg to her and her husband I put my foot down. The answer was "no". - I could not bear to think of that poor child facing what I had endured so many years. Thanks, Dr, Ramani for finally opening my eyes to what has happened in my life. I just want to cry all the time now- I am overwhelmed by so many emotions. But I know it will get better with time.
It will get better and better with time which will reinforce that you did the right thing.
You made a really, really good decision.
Well done you. Imagine having her hold a child that's yours over you for further manipulation.
Briiliant, well done for saying no
“Special claim” wtf! Thank you for calling this bullsh*t out.
Thank you so much Dr Ramani! Since I’ve been following you I have been seeing myself very differently. I now know I’m not Crazy!!! I still have days, periods of time, that I still question my sanity, but I now have the tools to battle this mindset and win the battle!! I’m afraid of relationships but I know that as I heal that will heal too! For now, I’m glad to know I’m sane! Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!! I pray you are blessed! Because you have Blessed me❤️
Love this video. Family blood is not an entitlement. If you hurt me consistently, I do not want a relationship with you. I do not care if you are my parent or sibling. Using your relationship to get what you want is just manipulation. My brother in law passed in Dec. I would be seeing my father in law (narc) at the funeral ceremonies. I almost did not go. I did but just avoided him. I felt like I would be a bad wife if I did not go to support my husband during his loss.
Paula James, I think you did the right thing to go to the funeral but just avoid your father in law. I was at a similar funeral. Two narcs were there. They tried their usual games, and I ducked and dodged them. "Excuse me, I need to help with this.......need to greet so and so....." I found ways to dodge interaction with them. It worked, but I think they were surprised, as normally I would take the time to chat and be friendly.
You did the right thing . Never let them dictate where you go be yourself just don't talk to them . If you stay away from event's that you should be at you are letting them win...no way will I let them win.
@@notagain779, honestly that is one of my biggest fears. Having to show up because one of the worst narcissist dies or that I would have to face the many narcissists in my family. I avoid all family functions because so many in my family have no idea how I have been treated. Gaslighted to the Max! Actually, I am generally not informed of the functions because some DO know & they do not put me in the loop. Others probably believe whatever they have been told I'm sure. I have never called out the Narcissists. I would go, however, I would do as you. I would not be seated as family & get the heck out ASAP. I would do whatever helps ME deal with the death. Possible closer? ✌️🦋
@@cstevens8788 , I understand your situation better than you can imagine! At my father's memorial luncheon, there were place cards. My place card was with people I can't tolerate. I talked to the restaurant staff, who said it was "customary" to be seated with immediate family. I told them that I wanted to sit with friends who'd come to be supportive. I wasn't going to leave my friends alone! It took some firmness on my part to get the restaurant to change the seating. I don't care what anyone thought about that. I was able to enjoy my friends and eat my meal without indigestion. You're right: you have to do what helps YOU to deal with the death.
When I was a teenager my mom came to me and demanded I make my brother's car payment or it would be late. I had my own and other expenses too. I refused. No way could I afford to risk him not repaying me. He had harassed and bullied me my entire childhood, took his girlfriend on expensive dates, bought stuff I could not afford... so yah why would I trust him to repay before I needed the money back. My mother berated me and said then never expect it from us. Like I ever did. The only thing I expected from those 2 were name calling and harassment. Funny thing is that brother has only one kidney. Always wondered if my mom would come after me if that one failed and he needed a transplant. I feel for this subject person and wanted to say to all never ask someone's opinion on ethics like this. It's your body only your opinion matters. No one has any claim over your body in this manner. Not ever!
Recently, one of my children needed something from his narc father to help him position a broken bone (broken on a trip with his dad- taken care of by me including dealing with the doctors because he couldn't be bothered). Dad had a big hissy fit and said, "Make your mom buy one." In an age of supply issues, when he has been putting on a big financial abuse song and dance about my spending, etc.
My son asked why his dad was like this. He knows dad is a narcissist, so he knows. I turned to him and said, "Well, I wouldn't think twice about giving you a kidney so I'm the wrong one to ask."
So sad that ANYONE is giving that kind of advice. I wouldn't give my narc a kidney in a million years. I need a functioning body to be here to take care of my kids since I have no competent backup from another parent. It isn't about wanting revenge- but I have other priorities to focus on and I'm not willing to put myself at risk when I am needed so desperately to fill the roles he never could.
Narcissistic abuse is the reason the big power grabbers, the sexual predators and the causes of our 6th extinction event on earth. I think that, fewer narcs could help everyone everywhere. But... education is the greatest power and I have you to thank for that Dr. Ramani. I'm glad the ethicist got a bit schooled today. Thank you for being here
When my father passed away I literally "divorced" the brother I had for the same reasons. And the odacious tricks he played on me, calling me the narc when he realized I see him exactly for who he is. He screwed me out of inheritance my dad left me with too as punishment for bringing his truth to light. Now I have zero family rather than doormatting myself for the sake of having "family". The dangerous part is this same man actually gives himself out as a successful counseling therapist! If only they knew he was a child sex manipulator as well..
Doesn't it feel great to be away from them? Such a relief to not be a part of the lies.
Report him to the police! We have a duty to report those horrible beings who harm kids. I know it's complicated because he is family, but you can do it anonymously.
All the best to you.
The biggest regret in my life is that I went out of my way and spent over a hundred grand on getting my narcissistic mother on disability and into an assisted care facility instead of doing anything else with that money that would have made my life better, most of which would have included repairing damage she caused. It took a long time for me to learn that I have no obligation to a toxic person, if a narc wants a kidney too bad so sad.
The point is it's a personal choice whether to give or not. No one should be shamed and blamed for any choice they make.
Someone once told me not to give if I was going to regret it later. I think that's important to consider.
A sensible position, thank you.
Dr Ramani, you are a true beauty. Thank you. Thank you for all your hard work, sharing your education, knowledge, and you have helped, not only me, I'm sure hundred of thousands of people.
No way would I give a narcissistic sibling anything - completely agree with you Dr Ramani. They don't recognise the emotion of gratitude or the idea of giving unconditionally.
Last night I dreamed the narcissist picked a penny off the ground, stood up and held it out to me on the tip of his finger. When I reached for it, he snatched it back, laughed and walked away. The brother of the narc should tell him to pound sand. My dream describes the behavior of narcissists-they will take anything of value and walk away laughing. You don’t owe them a damned thing. Ever.
"genetic bad luck". LOVE IT!
Ugh. This is so spot on. Thank You, doctor. We’ve been through enough guilt & deserve to maintain boundaries
Thank you for this. I have so many gas lighters and enablers in my life it’s hard for me to make healthy choices in my life as I move forward after trauma therapy from narcissistic abuse. Totally have been taught to give give give no matter what anyone says or does. So tired of it. Such BS. Impairs healing for sure. Thank you for this video, helps me feel stronger in my resolve to find people/situations that are healthy for me. People don’t understand that I want to be somewhere I feel safe and supported. Then I question myself not sure if I am doing the right thing, but thank you for this, super helpful. 💖
This video resonates deeply for me. Thank you, thank you Dr Ramani.
Knowledge is power, understanding is wisdom. This is an educational video, it is saving lives. Wow, wow, super interesting, it is so important to get the right help in understanding and recognizing the red flags and patterns of narcissism. You take a difficult subject and turn it into an exciting interesting flowing storytelling that is easily understood by the layperson. Bless you and your beloved extended family. You are enough.
My STBX narc husband did need a kidney 7 years ago. Luckily another family member stepped up. At the time I didn’t know about narc abuse. All I know is I felt like I was already giving 150% in the relationship and didn’t feel horribly compelled to get tested to be his match. I’m 100% sure he wouldn’t have given me a kidney. Several mutual friends who had considered stepping up have told me now how glad they are they weren’t his donor. At the time I had some guilt for not wanting to be his donor. I now understand why I felt the way I did.
I started practicing no contact just after I visited with my dying mother. She had been slowly going out after battling 15 years of dementia . I said my goodbyes and expressed my appreciation to her. Then I decided not to attend her funeral and instead I climbed the biggest mountain I could find to be close to her on the day of her funeral , my profile image is taken the day of my mother’s funeral. Needless to say, my narc siblings used this against me and it’s helped with no contact.
Interesting. I have no desire to attend either of my parents' funerals, not even to be there for my brother n his kids. Definitely to not be near my narc sister n all of the parents friends that sexually abused me when younger. It would b pure hell. Glad to hear that you were so strong to do that n that I'm not alone in wanting to do this
From a medical standpoint it is also important that it‘s not only the immediate risk of surgery but also that the donor‘s body is losing something it needs and relies on. Usually the donors‘ physiology needs some time to learn to balance with just one kidney. Thank you for this video and your commentary on this article.
Special Claim?!? Holy crap! This advice columnist is an uninformed person. This “ethics dude” is saying so many of the things that my enabler mother and narc father have said to me over my 55 yrs.
“No body who treats us badly should have a special claim on us, whether we are related or not” - amen to that!
There it is again!!!! We are literally being conditioned to accept and tolerate the narcissists… there’s a concerted effort across all disciplines to get us to compromise ourselves for their benefit. WHY?!?!?
Such a profound example! After I left my abusive husband it was expected that I would be 100% responsible for our kids. (It did end up working out that way) I actually told a friend that if one of my kids needed a kidney it would be assumed that I'd enthusiastically get right up on that operation table. Even in this hypothetical example I could hear his voice making the snarky comment "You're so selfish for not giving BOTH kidneys!"
No major national newspapers have particularly good ethics in the first place. I'm so frustrated by how those of us who aren't narcissists are expected to have endless empathy and magnanimity towards people who do. not. deserve it.
And frankly, I wouldn't piss on my Narcissist brother if he was on fire.
I was raised by a narcissistic mother, married a narcissistic man, have a narcissistic son. It took me better part of my life to step out from underneath their abusive control. My career BTW was in mental health! If our current culture were summarized as a person, it would be a narcissist. So no surprise we find them in every part of our culture: doctors, nurses, managers, priests and pastors. That said, there is an appropriate time and place for mercy and grace that has nothing to do with self-agrandissement with virtue nor with appeasing the narcissist.
Nurses and psychotherapists are prone to be abused by narcissists. The helpers are perfect victims.
One reason may be that the above named occupations require college and Colleges and Universities and Graduate schools are hotbeds for narcissism. Professors can be mean and arrogant. Nursing instructors can be Mean.
@@MrNeptunebob just don’t shine.
Shut up and ace The tests and look
like a nerd, so The stupid narx won’t
notice you. If you’re wealthy, hide it,
if you’re beautiful, in or out, hide both
You are my life changer Dr Ramani. I was always in this ethical dilemma all my life about a sibling - until 3 months back when my counsellor shared the link of your videos. And this one, I must compliment you, is yet another guiding light. Thank you...
On top of that, a kidney usually only lasts about 5 years before the person will need another one. The narcissistic sibling would go back to the empath brother and ask for the only kidney the empath sibling has.
No way would I give a kidney to an abusive narc .. I’d tell him to go to hell ..
I’m glad I’m at the point where I can say ‘No’ (to a kidney donation or anything) without remorse. Most of the narcissists in my life know better to come to me for anything let alone a human organ. They can’t restore the health problems I have from the stress they caused. Ethical my ass!
I used to give my narcissistic sister anything I bought that she liked. For years. Needlessly to say, that doesn’t happen anymore.
The abusive system only works if there are enablers. If there aren’t any enablers then the abuser is powerless. It’s the enablers that maintain the abusive system. The ethical expert is just another enabler.
4:05”Genetic bad luck” ! You’re vocabulary is a golden treasure, dr Ramani! I feel somewhat relieved by this expression.
Thank you for cranking up the audio volume some!
That “special claim” phrase is the BANE of a child of narcissistic abuse. It took 34 years to realize that nothing I did would be enough to be loveable after fulfilling all those special claims and being “ethical” and the bigger person who essentially enabling the narcissism until I fell apart, and was expected to keep going and keep falling apart. Thank you so much for sharing this. This is the validation I needed.
I love this woman ❤️🙏😍🌈
Dr. I’ve soon so many of your videos but find myself so stuck.. learning and so grateful for what you do. I find myself going in circles on what I should do to make things in the house more comfortable, but get frustrated w myself cause I’ve taken care of everyone else, or try to help everyone else. And forgot myself. Sometimes I think what if I am the 1 that’s narcissistic, and just being ugly.
TOUGH QUESTION… and I agree that if a kidney was given that the narc would not be gracious or thankful. And they definitely won’t change. I think it comes down to who we are as our own individual, our character, our belief system, and where we are on our healing journey. Me personally? I have narcissistic blood family, father and sister. I think I’d struggle with this snd maybe help out. Idk. However… my malignant narcissistic demon ex? F$&Ck NO NEVER NOT A CHANCE. Honestly, I’d have trouble just trying to not celebrate that the this disgusting calculated abuser was finally getting what they deserve. Great topic.
Thank you for your passionate defense of those that have to deal with this kind of bs shaming...it's so prevalent. I hope that man read the comments section and decided NOT to donate a kidney to his brother. Or that he somehow finds this video before he agrees to it..
Give my kidney? That's a hard no. There's a limit to how much any person needs to feel obligated to give. Another huge concern is that organ donation are not risk-free. Although uncommon, there are donors who have experienced significant health complications afterward. Another factor to consider.
I wouldn't say yes or no, it's not my life to live, but you are totally correct, why didn't (and perhaps he did) the newspaper ethicist question the ethics (or even the legality) of pressuring his brother for a kidney?
Exactly. The recipient almost immediately feels better, and the donor has a long painful recovery -- and is now one kidney short. The author of the NYT article obviously has no experience with narcissism. Or maybe the author is one. Who knows.
It's nice to see Dr.Ramani's Channel is growing fast. There are many videos talking about Narcissism but Doctor Ramani is the unicorn who has collected so many first-hand materials and also genuinely cares about everyone. You can feel that from her words, her enthusiasm, and her caring nature. Thank you, Dr. Ramani for being such a light to us!!
The idea of /anyone/ having a special claim to another person actively set something off in me. I’d bet that mentality is why some parents think their children are possessions, not responsibilities. A “special claim.” It’s so toxic it reminds me of any faith that says our body is on loan to us from a divine presence, preventing someone from fully embracing a healthy exploration of that natural drive for self-sufficiency and self-servitude.
Empathy and love are inventive and nurturing forces, but if that love doesn’t flow inward some of the time, it will leave someone completely drained... whether or not someone else is trying to steal from their emotional well.
Thank you for your brilliant, compassionate take on this situation. I've also read advice from a certain ethicist, and I've often been taken aback by the advice given - plenty of pressure to see one's emotional needs and vulnerabilities as selfishness. You are courageous and caring for calling it out, and your work is very important.
They're there to point us in the wrong direction!
Just from listening to you, Dr. Ramani, I would not be taking the high road on this one.
100% NO! I would not cross the road to see my narcissist sibling, let alone give a kidney! In most situations, I turn it round, would they do the same for me? Most of the time the answer is no, so I stick to this method in my life! People are out for themselves, you have to put yourself first, not selfish, self preservation!
I owe nobody a part of my body, but a narcissist in my life would be the last person on my list to get support.
Quite agree with you Dr. Ramani, It sure is a big decision to make even if you liked your sibling with it carrying such high risks but to an ungrateful narssicist sibling who won'tt be grateful & will carry on mistreating him, definitely not.
"A special claim within the family?" Hell, NO! Unfortunately, this was how we were "programmed" growing up. To be the bigger person. That is all well and good, but ALL narcissists EXCLUDED.
Thank you for your intelligent, passionate, and evidence-based support for victims of narcissism. Calling out the enabling is only going to have credibility when made by people of your professional, personal, and community stature. I really appreciate your dedication to this issue.
It is always more difficult or impossible to get a narcissist to accommodate so ethicists, parents, bosses, teachers, family or friends coerce, guilt, or simply convince the person struggling with an ethical dilemma to change, accept abuse, or make up for the shortcomings of a narcissist. I believe that it's much easier to enable narcissists especially when someone else is the one "footing the bill." Thank you yet again for your reassurance and reality check.